the general election 2015 on BBC Radio
leads and BCB 106.6 FM welcome to the
die house Gallery in the Lista building
at Bradford College from its Origins as
you would expect as a die house it's now
a gallery currently hosting an
exhibition of work by local artists
depicting everyday scenes from Bradford
it's a fitting venue for today's debate
on firsttime voters both young and old
how to engage them in politics and how
to get the 182 million people who didn't
vote at the last election to make their
choice count I'm Richard stead and with
me this evening from Bradford Community
broadcasting is AWA alari evening good
evening I'm in the audience today and as
would you expect at Bradford College
there are a lot of young voters and a
few older firsttime voters and a few
who've seen it done it and even got the
T-shirt we've been asking people here in
West Yorkshire what if anything is
firing them up about general election
2015 the general election 2015 on BBC
Radio leads and bcv 106.6 FM election no
one told me about elections how old are
you 19 so you're allowed to vote well
I've heard a few things here and there
but I thought it was just like the
hustings and juny and those elections my
name is Justin I'm from West Yorkshire
Bradford and basically I decided not to
vote on the basis that I don't feel that
the MPS or the politicians are have any
interest in actually doing the job all
their policies they they leave them
behind and they just focus on getting
their own bonuses and putting
corporations into power in the UK 6.8
million 18 to 24 year olds are eligible
to vote you're a powerful force to be
reckoned with but a huge amount of this
power isn't being used the number of you
voting has been low in recent elections
but if more of you turn out this time
there are enough of you to create a
massive swing for one of the parties I'm
Myra I live in whipy and I've been
voting for 60 years and the reason why
I'm voting is I think we all should not
just men all women all everybody that's
old enough to vote wants to vote hi I'm
Josie I'm from badford West and I'm
going to be a firsttime voter I'm 18 and
I'm voting because I think that if you
don't vote or at least turn up and spoil
your ballot then you can't complain
about anything and I feel like I've got
quite a lot to complain about and
probably will next government and all hi
I'm Zoe I'm from I'm 19 so I'm a first
time voter I'm voting because I want to
think that my vote counts and I can make
a difference the general election 2015
on BBC Radio leads and BCB 106.6 FM so
time to meet our panel of candidates
across parties and constituencies in
alphabetical order standing for the
conservatives in Batley and Spen M as a
mean is a solicitor he's previously
stood for his party in Blackburn against
the then foreign minister Jack STW the
respect candidate is George Galloway
once a labor MP now leader of respect
who has been an MP first in Bethel green
and bow and most recently as MP for
Bradford West since
2012 the lib demam on our panel is Ed
Sanderson another solicitor he's
standing in the Leeds East constituency
and for labor Nas sha Naz is a women's
rights campaigner who has been selected
to stand in Bradford West for her party
ladies and Gentlemen please welcome the
panel bcb's AA alari is in the audience
this evening for us AA are they all
behaving themselves so far I think so
yeah we've got audience as far as the
eye can see and everyone is ready to
engage um healthfully in this debate so
um and we're going to move into our
first questioner who is MTAR Ali from
Bradford MTAR Ali just a bit of a
background is an activist from Bradford
uh and he was former labor counselor who
left the labor party uh on the back of
the Iraq War MTAR Ali what is your
question to the panel today with
the um growing discontent disconnect and
mistrust with the political system and
politicians in this country what would
you do to engage and Empower Comm all
communities in our society so that this
can be an inclusive
Society so the question is this connect
between political Elite and the general
public thank you very much we'll let
George Galloway take that one first well
you have to say what you mean and mean
what you say and if you are a politician
like that you will get a response but if
people know that you are just a kind of
human pager who passes on a line which
is different from the line yesterday and
will be different from the line tomorrow
if you're just an automaton who will be
a sheep going through the lobby of the
House of Commons you're not likely to
excite much uh in the way of enthusiasm
you are a good example uh you like me
were in the labor party for decades and
you left I was expelled because of a
crime so gigantic that it's strange now
looking back at it 12 years on a million
dead people on and Iraq and Syria and
Yemen and Bahrain and Libya most
noteworthy in the news today all of them
in flames in a kind of disaster and that
was done by politicians it was done by
labor politicians who with George W bush
formed the most grotesque Coalition in
all history the Blair Bush gang and of
course uh it's not only labor the reason
why students are unlikely to save Nick
CLE uh in his constituency in Sheffield
is that he signed in blood that there
would be H an abolition of tuition fees
instead there was a tripling of tuition
fees so you have to say what you mean
mean what you say I firmly believe that
people are not apathetic about politics
they're apoplectic about the pathetic
nature of the political class with some
exeptions let's get nasha's thoughts on
that in answer to your question about
how to engage I'm not a career
politician I'm an activist by background
and I still continue to be that and I
and I absolutely Endeavor to continue to
do that work in the community regardless
of the election I and I think that
speaks volumes when you actually engage
with people on the ground when you
actually work with families with young
people with older people you know I
chare mental health charity I've done
lots of work in the community on other
levels I think that engagement has to be
meaningful you have to be able to sit
with people and talk to them and I think
politicians there's an air of you're
different to us and I think for my part
and the my play the part that I'm going
to play is about real engagement as part
of the community and I think that's
really very different I think people you
know you can have empathy but to be be
able to relate to people you people need
to find connecting things that connect
you with them and I think I have a lot
of that so that's how I do it using my
Community Development background Ed
Sanderson give us a lib Den view well
the libdem tradition has always been
based in community politics um and and
listening to to voters concerns on a
community level um and I think there's
been a perception amongst all parties
politicians and political class don't
listen to voters um it's not that voters
aren't interested in politics or
political issues because of course
everything that affects um voters from
the amount of money that in their back
pocket every month to the state of the
environment to the transport system
clearly affects them it's just that
politicians aren't seem to be able to
listen or want to engage or speak the
same almost the same languages as they
do so public politicians need to return
to be Servants of the people and that
means doing the right thing for voters
and I think all parties need to learn
from that uh uh from across the
political divide M as a me I think
there's a disconnect because there are
fewer and fewer conviction politicians
nowadays uh than there was say perhaps
even 20 years ago so if if you go back
to for example the late 80s and you had
whether you liked her or disliked her
you had someone like margarth thater you
knew exactly what she stood for on the
left you knew exactly what labor party
stood for and at the moment what's
happened and it's partly because fewer
and fewer people are voting that all the
political parties are targeting the same
group of Voters so so we often hear the
center ground is the where is where all
the votes are and all the parties are
pitching to a smaller and smaller number
of Voters because they feel that that
group of Voters will swing the election
and the reason that group of Voters will
swing the election is because the wi the
public is not voting and unless
everybody decides and takes the view
that regardless of which party I vote
for I am going to go and vote you will
continue to have this type of targeting
of Voters using fancy software and every
party has
as far as empowerment is concerned it's
one thing saying we have to listen to
the public we have to engage with the
public these are cliches we hear on a
regular basis empowerment will only take
place when the issues that are relevant
to the public are discussed by
politicians so for example to in in in
in where we are um you had a with George
Galloway you had a very surprising
result a few years ago because the
language being spoken appealed to a
certain number of Voters
and I think it's the same message across
the board regardless of which party
political background you come from if a
politician speaks your language deals
with the issues that are important to
you you will engage with that politician
but it's a two-way process you can't
continue to say oh the politicians don't
listen they don't engage politicians do
listen they do engage but it is a
two-way process where the public has to
say this is what's important to me what
are you going to do about it just like
to uh get a show of hands actually on a
couple of points raised there I know the
fact that you're all at a political
debate shows some kind of connection to
politics but is there anybody in the
room who does feel particularly
disconnected with politics at the moment
yeah I only a smattering who said I do
we'll let a come in and ask you why uh
yeah I am dis I feel disconnected I've
been voting for over 50 years
now and in all that time the politics
have said the same whether it's local or
or national
what is happening now is a kind of mini
Revolution within local local and
National and I don't think that's such a
bad thing but what I do what I am
concerned about is that the the way that
is put over nowadays is not to encourage
people to vote it's actually confused
them because what is in what is in there
for the young youngsters
nowadays is nothing thank thank you very
much any of the panel want to agree
disagree I I would uh make the point
that the clear winner of the sort of
presidential style debates that we've
had has been Nicholas sturgeon of the
Scottish national party a party that
stands only in Scotland uh which is
standing therefore uh for the breakup uh
of Britain and yet she's taken the
debates by storm why because of the
pathetic nature the three cheeks of the
same backside of the mainstream parties
and because she's given them a spanking
on television and it's really set the
whole thing a light now don't get me
wrong I hope she comes a Cropper but the
reality is she shown up the other
politicians because she's the only one
there saying scrap nuclear weapons spend
the money at home we need it spent on
our Health Service stop bailing out the
bankers spend the money at home our
pensioners need to be kept warm in the
winter time stop this austerity it's
killing us it wasn't us that caused the
crisis it was the bankers what did I get
getting billions I just want to get the
other uh other people's points of view
on how their leaders have performed in
the various interviews and debates that
we've seen Ed you seem very keen assess
Nick CLE for us well Nick CLE of course
wasn't invited to the last opposition
debates he's been in would those debates
would debate I I I thought he he
performed very well where I would agree
with George I mean this is different
from ideology I think where Nicholas
sturgeon has performed very well is
increasing the membership of the S SMP
and seeing that as very important in the
political process now clearly I don't
agree with their ideologies but I what I
think all the establishment parties
could do better and and include the
liberal Democrats in this is is using
voters and involving them more within
the political party itself and the
political process itself and you see the
reason the S&P have become so successful
and they're making great stads
particularly in labor heartlands there's
a high chance you may actually see more
conservative Scottish seats in the next
after the general election than labor
seats we never thought we'd say that is
because that that the S&P have at least
and I say I don't agree with a lot of
their policies have at least been able
to identify that voters want to
participate in the political process
themselves now that doesn't mean running
for election that means getting involved
in membership and getting involved in
policy now the liberal Democrats do get
our members involved in policy but um I
I think we could we could as a party do
a better job in terms of getting people
involved and terms of becoming I want to
keep this on the party leaders just for
now because I want to talk about David
Cameron and uh I will get uh Mt Asam
mean's thoughts on how David Cameron has
performed so far I think he performed
very well I mean it's easy in opposition
for someone like Nicholas sturgeon to
say I want x y and Zed 190 billion of
uncosted um commitments it's it's a lot
more difficult when you have a record to
defend and especially that record it's a
good record I I I it it is a good record
unemployment is down by uh we've got
we've increased employment by 2.2
million more jobs have been created in
Yorkshire more more jobs have been
created in Yorkshire than the whole of
France and we have spent 8 billion
pounds more uh We've we've we've
actually spent 12 billion pounds more on
the NHS in the last 5 years we have a
good record um the economy was in an
absolute mess uh 5 years ago150 billion
pound of deficit it's all well and good
saying we now well it's all well and
good saying that we don't want any
austerity but how do you continue to
spend at the rate that the labor party
was spending and expect to fund your
public services so I think what David
Cameron has said in the debate and what
he said on the interviews is absolutely
100% correct we had a job to do we've
done that we're in the right direction
and we need to continue in that uh with
with with the economic plan that we're
on okay uh Nasha EDM Ed I'd beg to
differ on the economy tell us about Ed
Mand I I think Ed milland's going pretty
well and I think from a leadership
perspective I mean I I spent the
afternoon I was very privileged to spend
the afternoon with Ken Livingston who
came up to support me yesterday
afternoon and his words were since John
Smith he's the best leader we've had
from a leadership perspective I think
he's he's absolutely on top form I also
disagree with um you know for every four
jobs you've got in London we've only got
one up in the north so that's absolutely
statistically correct so we haven't we
got those jobs in we haven't got them up
in the north in Yorkshire and I I don't
think that Devolution has happened and
it's not on your far long your your way
off Mark in terms of meeting your
economic plan because you're three years
off it you said you'd meet the deficit
in five years continue to tell us about
Ed Miller Band we'll try and revisit
that particular statistic later but as
far as he is performing in these debates
and he's coming across I think he's
coming across pretty very congruent he's
coming across as a strong leader it's
exactly what the labor party needs to
take us through
2015 you're listening to BBC Radio leads
I'm Richard Ste from BBC Radio leads and
I'm Ahad Mari here from BCB
106.6 FM where the audience have just
questioned the panel and our next
question is from adri Azar from Halifax
who is a freelance actor and is 30 years
old uh the main question I want to ask
is how are you going to be able to help
um obviously communities to engage
together as a whole um obviously for
young voters to come forward and vote
when there's a lot obviously going on in
the world itself at the moment Ed
Sanderson well in particularly in terms
of young voters one of our policies is
to um exchange the franchise to um 16 um
we think that's very important in terms
of getting um we've seen how successful
it was in the Scottish referendum how
many 16 to 17 year olds voted um we
think if you're old enough to um get
married to to pay tax to to to have sex
and to join the Army should be allowed
to vote um and you know service have
shown that if you are engaged at 16 and
17 that continues to the ages of 18 and
24 which is the key issue I think our
electoral system needs to change I think
if people realize that their vote counts
for more and we have a proportional
system they're more likely to vote as
well if you vote for for if you vote in
a safe seat there's no entitlement to
vote so that's in terms of citizenship I
think that's very important but I think
that's a lifelong commitment that we
need to make um I think more money
should be ring fence and giv to local
councils to improve adult lifelong um
ideas of citizenship as well um and
Leadership again it's this question i'
we repeat uh the answer i' repeat before
um all political parties and the media
as well have a role in promoting the
positive impacts at politicians and and
the public service make in general but
also um but also um listening more to
voters and and and and workers groups as
well let's find out what labor are doing
to engage Nasha in terms of citizenship
I think we we agree and I agree with um
Ed in terms of lowering the voting age I
think it's absolutely right that young
people use their voice I think it's
absolutely right if they're paying their
taxes they should be entitled to have
that civic participation I think there's
a task to be done to strengthen
communities strengthen young people's
education in terms of political
engagement and I think from a leadership
perspective let's be clear leadership is
on every single seat leadership isn't
about top down it's about creating you
know a good leader creates more leaders
and we have leaders in our schools we
have leaders amongst our young people
the Future Leaders and and the future
lies in the hands of our young people I
think it's absolutely imperative on a
personal level I will be very very
actively engaged looking engaging with
young people in terms of democracy why
are we not giving those young people
that right why are we not at the moment
if we were in power we would be one of
the first things we would be doing is
lowering that voting age and rightfully
so I think we're going to have a bit of
a debate on the actual lowering of a
voting age in just a moment uh George
Galloway on engagement well look we've
got a parliament for full of expenses
thieves some of whom should have gone to
prison but went instead back to their
cabinet positions we have a political
class under a cloud of Suspicion of the
darkest most vile kind establishment
coverups of foul perverse crimes we have
a political leadership that has led us
into one war
after another David Cameron with Ed mban
support bombed Libya to bits and the
Italian Navy are now having to fish the
pieces out of the Mediterranean Sea how
can you engage with people when that's
the quality of the political leadership
that you have been giving them the
crimes of Blair were bigger of course
but longer ago although he's still
around of course and my film the
killings of Tony Blair will be premiered
in this very city of Bradford in a month
or two from now but the political
leadership in Britain is simply
incapable of rising to the challenge
that faces our people our people are
atomized you talk about a community but
there's actually now no British
Community we have people who are
deliberately setting out to divide us on
the basis of color on the basis of Faith
people seeking votes by dredging the
Battle of prejudice against Muslims for
example Trojan horses Trojan hoaxes
every kind of racist filth is dredged up
by the British media in support of this
or that part of the political class how
do I engage though gent said well let me
tell you the gentleman in the second row
said said we need a peaceful revolution
in this country that's exactly what we
need we need to throw out these
political charlatans and get real change
George thank you um inamine
conservatives how do we engage with
voters um can I just say that answer
probably explains why we have a
Detachment with politics when you
brandish every politician as corrupt or
as an expense Thief you you do yourself
no favors there are there are
there are people who are doing a lot of
good work in Parliament and to call them
all and and group them and say that
they're all a bunch of crooks and it
does the politics and the system no
favors the way you engage with people
and and uh especially young voters
firsttime voters a person who's 16 or 17
needs to understand that they're going
to go University then they're going to
be looking for a job then they'll be
looking for a home it is they have to
take some individual responsibility it's
all well and good saying well no the
system doesn't work for us and we're not
interested if you are looking for a
career if you're looking to buy your own
home if you're looking to get involved
in your own Community you can do that by
getting involved in the political
process it's all it's all it's easy to
detach yourself saying well they're all
the same no one makes any difference
well you can make a difference get
involved make a difference well let's
get someone who maybe is who's going to
be a firsttime voter this time around
May 7th who's going to be voting for the
first time oh go go speak to one and
just ask how connected they feel well
the first hand I saw going up was here
so what's your name sir my name's n how
connected do you feel as a firsttime
voter um yeah so far definitely like
there's been plenty in the media about
it that's why I'm getting most of my
information but um in terms of Bradford
West which is constituency in that the
candidates are pretty much on the ground
and I've met a few of them already and
gotten gotten their side of it so I I
feel fairly connected but also you know
I I this is my first election that I've
been able to vote in here uh I do have
an interest in politics so I am going
out and trying to find out information
thank you Nile you're listening to BBC
Radio leads we're at Bradford College's
die house gallery for the second of our
election debates it's on firsttime
voters and how we engage people in
politics ahead of the general election
2015 our panel all candidates for their
respective parties in West Yorkshire at
the general election are just to remind
you Nash sha for labor Ed Sanderson Li
liberal Democrats George gall away
respect and empty as a mean from the
conservatives let's take another
question from the floor please so our
next question is by siman hi I'm siman
I'm a member of the UK youth Parliament
uh my question is uh politicians preach
a lot about equality they preach about
Justice and they preach about Liberation
uh can you tell me why your party is
still denying the vote to 16 and 17 year
olds but not in terms of including it in
the manifesto but the time is taking to
pass it through Parliament because it's
a campaign that's been running for three
years and it really should have been and
it's just by now if I can just put that
as a direct question firstly to NAS sha
NZ would you support lowering the voting
age to 16 absolutely I feel strongly
that young 16 178 year olds should be
able to vote I think for now if somebody
turned 18 in in after the 7th of May
they'd have to wait 5 years to vote in
the general election I think that's
absolutely absurd I think if you can tax
people then why shouldn't they be part
of the decision-making process of who
runs our councils and who runs our
country I think it's absolutely right
young people should be allowed to vote
and we will lower the voting age if we
are successful as a government Mt as
aine if elected would you support
lowering the voting age to 16 uh I'm I'm
not convinced that I've not heard any
strong arguments to say say that um a
16y old should be allowed to vote um
just because you pay tax I mean people
do part-time work when they're 12 are we
going to say that um are we going to
allow them to vote so I I don't I don't
think that I've heard a convincing
argument yet to support to support the
lowering of um uh uh uh the voting age
to 16 at the moment it's 18 you go to
university I think it's a it's an age
where you get engaged in the political
process I'm quite happy to to leave the
voting age at 18 George Galloway do you
support lowering the voting age to 16
well we wouldn't want MTR to uh link the
right to vote with the paying of taxes
cuz that would rule a lot of your Chums
uh in the city out of uh of the voting
uh process
you can get married you can join the
Army you can work you can leave school
you can work and pay tax at the age of
16 you should now you should always have
been able to vote at
16 Ed Sanderson liberal Democrat would
you support lowering the vo in age to 16
well mtz's answers just summed up the
frustration we had because if it wasn't
for the conservatives opposition it
would already have been policy under
this coalition government couldn't the
libdems have done that anyway um well we
we pushed very hard but we were blocked
by the conservatives um you know it was
it was it was something we really would
have wanted to push through but they dug
their heels in um you know we we we
tried but but we we couldn't we couldn't
do it unfortunately um so yes I mean
it's been our policy for for for for
decades to have votes of 16 for for the
reasons that for reasons given um
already I I think no taxation without
representation is is is is a centuries
old philosophy and it should apply in
the UK as well and this is this is this
is almost this Catch 22 situation you've
got to have a democracy to to increase
voter voter interest and V thank you
yeah so that's I in fact just give me a
moment because I want to bring the
audience in because I think you've all
had you say on whether it should be
lowered to 16 so 3 to one on the panel
let's have a show of hands who would
lower the voting age to 16 in our
audience and who wouldn't so an
overwhelming majority it is fair to say
in the audience here in Bradford this
evening would support lowering the
voting age to 16 um simran do you want
to just come back on on that soon as you
asked the question on what you've heard
from from our panel um well I think in
terms of my point of view because as the
UK youth parament we've been campaigning
on campaigning on this issue for three
years and the conservatives really need
to open their because 60 and 70 old are
labeled as immature as irresponsible and
look how many young people are here
today I I definitely don't see this as a
sign of disengagement or so I I
definitely think that conservatives
really need to open their
[Applause]
eyes siman Jan do with that question
there if if those who put their hands up
could keep their hands up again we've
got a hand up here why do you think it's
important that the voting age should be
lower to 16 um if you're going to
University 16 and 17 year olds they're
the ones who are applying for University
surely if the 16 and 17 year olds had a
voice the conservatives would hear that
voice um and if they had the vote maybe
there would have been a strong push for
the lib Dems and their Tory Chums to not
raise the uni fees thank you you're
listening to BBC Radio leads it's our
election debate here in Bradford this
evening questions from the floor as we
discuss engagement young and old
firsttime voters ahead of the 7th of May
and the general election 2015 and let's
get our next question now please to move
us on our so our next question is by
Mike Brown Mike Brown is a civil servant
from Bradford and Mike if you could ask
your question please he uh what could be
achieved if the MPS of West Yorkshire
work together to help the region what
could be achieved if the MPS of West
Yorkshire work together to help the
region George Galloway well I pledged my
backing to Jerry sutliffe my
parliamentary colleague for many decades
but a labor MP I pledged my support for
him as the head of a supercharged
turbocharged West Yorkshire devolved
Authority just like the one that has
been given to Manchester and I think
Jerry Sutcliffe as a labor man a real
labor man would be the ideal person to
lead that and we absolutely need that
we're not just being left behind so far
as the south is concerned
we're also being left behind so far as
the north is concerned and Manchester if
we're not careful will become another
London and we here in the Leeds Bradford
conurbation will be the losers so I've
said before at hustings we need to get
our act together to be campaigners
United for that super Authority and for
me the airport as was joked earlier is
called leads hyen Bradford we need that
hyphenation you know in the United
States Dallas hyphen Fort Worth St
Paul's hyphen Minneapolis we need to be
leads hyphen Bradford and we'll all be
better off if we can unite around that
program let's get
NASA's thoughts on Northern Powerhouse I
guess is the is the phrase does the
leads Bradford and why the West
Yorkshire area need to be a northern
Powerhouse absolutely I think it's
really really fair and and just that we
do have devolved powers and if we had a
labor government certainly we would be
devolving six billion Pro bels we would
also be having Regional banking
structures which would support the
growth of local businesses so I think if
we did have and it depends in terms of a
question was how what would could we
achieve together if we return a labor
government in in on May the 7th where
when we have those powerhouses when we
have that 6 billion when we have the
regional Banks there is nothing stopping
people from working together I think you
know unit uned we are a stronger voice
to make sure that we bring the
investment where it's needed we have two
of the most deprived Wards right here in
Bradford I think it's fair I think it's
absolutely right that we join forces and
argue the case for the resources where
they matter the most in terms of
education at the moment we don't have
that resource we have had higher Cuts in
that that north south divide is so real
we have growth what people don't know
what to do with down south and here we
have cut backs at over 00 per head in
comparison to less than so yes I think
we could achieve a whole great deal
we're talking working together something
that the conservatives and liberal
Democrats have had to do over the past
term um Ed how do the lib Dems uh work
together with the other MPS of West
Yorkshire to help the region and it's
something libdems have done in councils
before as well so it's we're know
strangers to Coalition even before 2010
um libdems are committed to the idea of
of of localism of devolution of of of of
bringing power as close to local people
as possible because we're best place to
make decisions that affect um our
education our Health Service the M
issues that matter to most we take a
different stance from West Yorkshire
though um our Yorkshire liberal
Democrats believe that we should have a
Yorkshire Parliament elected for the
whole of the Yorkshire region um but
should that should have exactly the same
power as the Scottish Parliament does in
holywood so that's with tax varying
Powers that's with control over over
health and education because we have the
same population as Scotland um we should
have the the same uh size economy as
Scotland and we should we should be able
to fight for Yorkshire interests I agree
with George's worrying that there's not
just a north south divide there may well
be a Northwest Yorkshire divide as well
and I think Yorkshire as a whole County
not just West Yorkshire should come
together and we should share the skills
that they have in the humba share the
skills they have in South Yorkshire as
well as the the agricultural skills they
have in North Yorkshire to call come
together and build a build a lasting
North Yorkshire Parliament but with real
sustainable Powers Mt has a mean what
could be achieved if the four parties
represented here tonight and and others
work together to help the West Yorkshire
region well working together obviously
helps but I mean some of the proposal we
just heard there that's not going to
help that's just adding a layer of
bureaucracy to what we have already but
we already have um the West Yorkshire
combined Authority which the government
has funded to the uh considerably the
West Yorkshire transport fund now has a
billion pounds to distribute in our area
over the next um I think 10 OD years
we've got hs2 that's going to be linked
here that's going to bring in
approximately another billion pounds
worth of growth growth 18,000 jobs are
going to be created as a result of that
a half a billion economic investment
fund has been um set up here so a number
of projects have already been set up
it's not we're not starting from zero we
have got considerable growth in our area
as I said previously more jobs have been
created in Yorkshire and the whole of
France so a number of positive economic
outcomes have already taken place
working together is great um but that
sort of proposal let's have a Yorkshire
Parliament or yeah let's have another
layer of bureaucracy and More in on in
pretending that it's Devolution doesn't
work and it's not going to work
Manchester why is it okay for we we
we've work the councils are working with
the government in Manchester much better
than the councils in West Yorkshire are
engaging with the government I think I
think the local the you have tell us
more well you you have you have councils
here who are working with with with the
government in terms of the West Yorks
are combined
Authority but there's more that needs to
be do needs to be done you you need to
get engage with your local Authority
with your local counselors and say look
what are you doing for our communities
Mt has it's a contradiction you just
can't hold you cannot hold the
contradiction of Manchester's engagement
and engagement or lead's engagement it's
just not you're not answering the
question what about the fact that
billion P can we all just make our
points individually please let Mt answer
na question you you seem to be
completely overlooking the fact that we
have a West Yorkshire transport fund of
a billion pound hs2 is coming 18,000
more jobs are going to be created a
billion pounds in grow 15 years from no
no it's not 15 years from half the
people in here will be dead by that time
you just just while we're discussing
this point can I just finish off it's
over a period of 15 years hopefully I I
won't be dead in 15 years um I'm not
sure about you um being let's keep this
off topic but but but but what I'm
saying is that a a considerable amount
of money has been invested in West
Yorkshire which the panel seem to be
conveniently forgetting and thinking
well we seem to have no money here if
you work together if you have the right
people elected that fund will increase
let's get the view of the audience uh
let's first go back to Mike Brown who
actually posed the question Mike what
what have you made of what you've just
heard that the conservatives are
disconnected and have no connection with
people in your sh
whatsoever
you're listening to BBC Radio leads
we're in the die house Gallery in the
Lista building at Bradford College it's
the second of our election debates and
let's take another question now AA so
our next question is a recorded question
by lanaa Gladhill from Leeds who sent
this question for us hi my name is l
Gladhill I'm 24 and I live in Leeds I'd
like to ask the panel this in current
debates around the election it feels as
if the issues that matter most of young
people are not being fully addressed for
example whilst immigration ranks as a
key topic of concern for the general
population young voters do not register
the same anxiety about it are
politicians ignoring the fact that they
should be looking towards a politics of
tomorrow and not of politics of
yesterday mine politics of tomorrow not
of yesterday um I think the central
theme of this uh election debate as far
as I am concerned is the economy unless
unless you have a strong economy you
cannot fund your public services you
cannot discuss education you cannot
discuss the the
NHS you you you the starting point is a
strong economy if we go back to 2010 and
the politics of just taxing and spending
and insur ending up with a huge deficit
we're going to end up again where we
can't fund our Public Services the
reason there been an element of
austerity is we had to balance the books
we had to reduce the deficit we had to
we had to reduce a deficit year on year
to ensure that the economy works and you
haven't done it we we are on our way
of we have we have reduced we have
reduced the deficit by a half as a
percentage of the GDP in two three years
time that deficit will have disappeared
you
all can we just ask you just to if you
want to make a point we'll try and get
to you but as I said previously
alternative isou the alternative is that
you go back to Ed Milly band and Ed
Balls and look what they did in
2010 how how are we looking towards a
politics of tomorrow not a that is the
politics of Tomorrow your choice is very
simple do you want a competent
government who's going to do well with
the economy or do you want to go back to
2010 because the reality is there's only
going to be two people who are going to
be Prime Minister David Cameron or Ed
miliband supported by the SNP and to be
honest with Ed Milan if he fell over his
shoel we wouldn't laugh because he's
that sort of character um so your choice
is very clear you if you want to look to
the future if you want a strong economy
a vibrant economy more growth more money
is being spent on the NHS and on public
services you vote conservative if you
want to go back to taxing and spending
you vote for Ed miliband well nasar is
representing labor the question is
should politicians be looking towards a
politics of tomorrow not a politics of
yesterday our question from Lor and your
answer for her please I think it's
really we we can't ignore why we're in
the crisis and I I I do take issue with
the point what we did in 2010 because
let's B the banking crisis was not down
to the labor government it was a banking
crisis and let's be
clear let's also be clear in terms of
the bankers bonuses or the banks being
taxed or the bank those those um Rich
offshore accounts are more Tory friends
than they are labors let's also be clear
that the Tory government could have F
closed down lots of loopholes in terms
of a tax evasion that's going on but you
have refused to do that so you could
have bought that deficit down you could
have bought billions into economy but
you haven't done that you've sat on your
laurels and thought you know what let
the rich get richer and at the expense
of the poor that's that's what's
happened in this last government we
have we have another five years of bori
bori government who and you haven't
balanced the book so whilst Ed Milan
might not tie shoelaces I'm not sure
David Cameron could do the strapons but
hey ho you know let's
um your three years and that's the three
years that you're saying with your FIS
which with your Manifesto which which is
not fiscal we are saying we are not
borrowing we are not committed to any
more borrowing we will balance the books
we will keep the NHS we will repeal the
Health and Social Care Act we walk
privatize it through the back door which
is what's happening at the moment so do
you know what
I in terms of looking at today we need
to protect what is there we need to look
after the NHS we need to make do with
the sanctions that you've put which
penalize the poor the most which have
affected let's abolish the bedroom tax
let's tax The Mansions let's tax and
Levy the tobacco companies let's bring
in money where we should be bringing it
in from and not penalize vs that are
already at risk of being penalized and
already live below the poverty line yes
thank you very much I want to move on to
Ed
Sanderson Ed how are you and the liberal
Democrats uh going to answer the
question posed by Lor from Leeds yeah I
mean the question was how we focus on
the politics of Tomorrow rather than the
politics of yesterday I think the
politics of yesterday revolves a lot
around personal attacks and I think a
lot of personal attacks particularly
around in Miller Band you know whether
about you can tie a shoelaces or not or
whether you can eat a bacon sandwiches
is you know quite frankly
disgusting um I think this disc on the
debate on immigration is also I'm
speaking I think as the youngest person
on the panel but I speak I hope I speak
for everybody in the room just out of
date and um has no place in in in
certainly speaking for anyone really of
of my age group as well I don't like how
both the conservative and labor party
people who labor party in particular
which used to be a progressive party now
says in Stony faces that we must talk
about immigration in a in a in in a in a
very um very conservative with a SE way
about about it people of people of my
generation or young people want politics
want to want to know that we can invest
in a Greener future a future where civil
liberties including LGBT rights are
protected and thank you I want to ask
the same question to George Galloway are
politicians ignoring the fact that they
should be looking towards the politics
of tomorrow not a politics of yesterday
well it's pretty embarrassing I must say
as uh listeners will already have
concluded the kind of nonsense we've
just been listening to the conservatives
and the liberal Democrats have put us
through 5 years of austerity hell and
they're still borrowing more money than
they were when they started all this
Guff about the deficit and so on you're
borrowing more than you were when you
started and we have all about us the
ruin of your austerity policies you have
cut taxes for the richest people and cut
services for the poorest people and the
question from Lorna is a very powerful
one young people are not talking about
immigration it is not high on their list
of priorities it's people like you oddly
that are trying to make them fear if
immigration fear immigrants it's people
like you who are going to plunge Us in 2
years into a referendum that might lead
to us leaving the European Union with
the loss of hundreds of thousands of
jobs in this area and yet no young
person wants to leave the European Union
virtually none you could take a poll
here no one in the right mind wants to
leave the European Union but you're
making it an election issue and NZ you
weren't in the labor party in 2010 you
only joined it 12 months ago I was in it
for 36 years 36 years and I was in
Parliament when the banking crash or C
in 2008 and I warned them then that
giving hundreds of billions of pounds to
private Banks was not the answer to the
crash George I want to cut in because I
want to ask the audience I want to ask
them the same question uh and we'll hand
over to AA for that so I wanted to ask
the audience uh if there's any young
person here and who has strong views
about the EU membership whether they
want to be in or out we've got a hand
here thank you uh Lily mtag I'm from
Bradford East yeah I think it's really
important we stay in the EU we're facing
more and more Global crisis like global
warming like climate change and unless
we work together on those issues um with
as many countries as possible we're
never going to be able to face them so
it's not just about economics it's about
global issues like the immigrants as
well coming uh drowning in horrible
conditions in the Mediterranean we've
got to work together we can't just bail
out on that if I could just get a quick
fire run through a quick fire run
through the panel if we're talking about
engagement we're talking about young
voters the one topic that is top of the
list in your opinion for young voters
education jobs why Nas I think education
in terms of young people University have
coming out of colleges having technical
what we're proposing is technical
degrees what people don't have is jobs
at the moment there's no businesses out
there under the last 5 years we've lost
so many people sort so many businesses
so many job losses and it is a real
concern and that if you have a young
person who has a job that affects their
wellbeing mental health all of it it it
really the income is a massive issue Ed
with quick fire here yeah further
education particular apprenticeships
we've already doubled the number of
apprentices in the past uh past year 90%
of which lead to full-time jobs we want
to do even more on the next Parliament
George Well labor introduced tuition
fees for all the students listening and
the Tories and the liberal Democrats
trebled them
labor presides over Bradford Schools
which are second bottom of the National
League
154th out of 155 so don't look to any of
Tweedle D Tweedle Dum or Tweedle d and a
half because they don't have the
answer has me the most the most
important thing that a young person
should be looking towards is a job if a
person goes to University and cannot
find a job he feels that the three years
have been wasted or if a person doesn't
do do an apprenticeship and doesn't find
secure employment and that is why we
have made absolute priority to ensure
that youth unemployment has come down we
there are more jobs now than there has
ever been a person going to University
is more likely to find a job after
graduation 2 million apprenticeships
have been created in The Last 5 Years
we're committed to creating another 3
million apprenti ships so the security
of a job and that allowing them to buy
their own home and um that is the
priority a young person should be should
should have thank you know that's that's
we've tried to keep it very brief on on
that point there let's take another
question from the audience and AA we've
got Dave Forest here with a question
what's your question Dave my question is
about University tuition fees and is it
right that students are forced into
44,000 Worth or more of debt when we
know that 73% of them will never ever
pay it back how will your party solve
this
[Applause]
issue we are in a a college is part of
the University here in Bradford lots of
students in our audience Ed Sanderson
from the liberal Democrats no I don't
think it's right and I think um the Liv
de major ship made a huge mistake not
just politically because obviously we've
we've suffered on the polls but I think
practically um I was a candidate the
last election I signed the pledge as
well um I would have voted against the
government in the way that other MPS did
did not enough MPS did um I believe in
fore education um university for
University students um we weren't we
weren't we weren't allowed to we weren't
we weren't able to do that um and I
think it was a huge mistake what we
should focus now is now on the issue of
affordability now this isn't a
justification this is an explanation of
course there's no no nothing no money to
pay up front for tuition um and of
course you start earning money back only
once you earn £21,000 I have to say
Labor's plan for 6,000 fees it sounds
like a fee reduction effectively and and
the question hinted at this because you
don't have to pay back all of the
£99,000 unless you start off on a very
high salary labor plan for £6,000
tuition fees actually represent a tax
break for very high earning graduates
well let's get the labor point of view
because I'm very mindful of the time
Nasha tuition phase we we have pledged
to cut them by £3,000 um and we will
Implement that as soon as we are in
government let's be clear at the moment
it's 44,000 if we reduce that to 6,000
the average debt will be 21,000 looking
at the statistics at the moment over 20
years we have a debt of 261 billion at
the moment which the government will end
up footing so let's give some relief and
let's give people a Cho a chance to
actually get on the job market and repay
some of that and let's be clear that
people don't have to pay that back until
they earning a certain amount so there
is there is a there is a system in place
so you won't be asked to pay pay back so
much if you're only earning £10,000 a
year for examp George now if we can just
get the responses of the panel first
please we we can come to the audience in
a moment but I just do want to get the
responses of the panel George Galloway
what what what his respect matics
mathematics is obviously not n as
strongest Point um the neither neither
neither is history I never went to
University I worked from the age of 16
to send Blair and the other new labor
leaders to University entirely free of
charge and gave them a student grant to
enjoy it with and as soon as Tony Blair
got into Power he kicked that ladder
away from this generation and from their
children I voted against the
introduction of tuition fees I had a
standup row with the labor Chief whip
who said to me it's only
£1,000 I said it's the principle if
we've got money to spend on nuclear
weapons on invading other people's
countries and setting them on fire we've
got money to pay for the education of
our children labor wants to cut them
down to 6,000 which Naas thinks will
have them in fact it's a third and the
Tories and the liberal Democrats will
continue them at 9,000 respect says the
government the state the taxpayer should
pay for education for our children and
for the children at
University m a mean Mt a mean your your
views Tory views on tuition fees please
our policy is that they will remain at
£9,000 um it funds the universities it
funds the universities and it ensures
that universities are able to provide
the best Services we're competing in a
global economy we have to fund our
univers universities so that they able
to compete the policy of reducing tution
fees to £6,000 at Labor is seeking to
introduce will help the richest
graduates not those at the lower end
because the amount the as as was as the
questioner has just said 73% will not be
repaying their debt those who are
earning the least amount grad those
graduates who are earning the least
amount will not be repaying their their
uh tuition fees and I think we have to
get we have to be serious about this in
the sense that if we are going to
compete globally we're going to have to
fund our universities and it also gives
responsibility to the students that they
are having to pay for education is
something they should value it should
well let's hear from those students
because um ARA from BCB is with us in
the audience can you just find us a
couple of students just to get their
thoughts as we start to wrap up on
tuition fees please we've got a student
here would you like to say your name uh
Jonathan um to encourage people to
succeed in life is the lesson we want to
teach them we have to do that we have to
put them in massive debt but there are
there are more students going to
University now very briefly despite the
£99,000 fees there are more students
going to University than ever before so
that hasn't that hasn't discouraged PE
um students from going to University
true why don't we scrap Trident and
scrap the tuition fees wouldn't that be
a better thing to have the best
universities free of charge to our young
people let's have a referendum on that
let's ask the people in a referendum do
you want nuclear weapons or do you want
£99,000 a I want Ed's opinion I want
Ed's opinion we've got seconds literally
each head yeah there's more pupils from
disadvantage backgrounds going to
University and there's more pupils from
uh black and ethnic minority backgrounds
going to
University um so although I don't
although I've said I don't think it's
right to put people in debt the the new
policy isn't pulling people off from
going to University now brief word
finally on this first of all we have to
balance the book somehow and that in
that does in terms of a University cost
and that and I think in answering The
Young Person's question there would we
have cutbacks in the University
facilities and from a labor perspective
no we wouldn't what we doing we'd be
we'd Finance this through extra taxes so
it wouldn't be that we'd cut university
university benefits in any way shape or
form so no we would be cutting them back
and in an ideal word in an Ideal World
yes we would but let's at least get that
3,000 knocked off and let's get a li
let's get a final word on this and a
final word on tuition fees from someone
in the audience please yeah we've got
we've got Dian here would you like to
tell us your thoughts I'd just like to
know Ed how on Earth can you say that
more people from disprivileged
backgrounds have got into education when
you've removed EMA not just you but the
Tes none of you stood up to actually
you've stopped people from the poorest
incomes being able to go into education
and not only have you done that you've
then whacked him with a £99,000 fee I
don't agree that the labor party should
be at 6,000 it should be free education
for all knowledge is power and that's
how we overcome you right okay we'll get
Ed's response to that and then we really
are done for time so finally just
respond to that I'm say I'm saying that
cuz it's it's it's the it's the truth
there are more people from disadvantage
background go to university I mean I
know I know we might not agree you might
agree the statistics um the liberal
Democrats would introduce um other ways
to make it easier to get into education
for example we'd give a 2third discount
for for for all 16 to 20 year olds of
bus of of of bus of bus travels but it's
the facts I mean if you don't agree with
the facts thank you very much indeed and
thank you for all your questions as well
that's about it from the second of our
BBC Radio leads election debates here at
Bradford College I'd like to say a big
thank you to all our panel Mt Amin from
the conservatives George Galloway from
respect Ed Sanderson of the liberal
Democrats and Nasha
Leber thanks to you for listening here
on BBC Radio leads and a particular
thank you to our audience here in
Bradford we do have another general
election debate next week Liz green and
a panel in Halifax is as you debate the
Health Service I'm Richard stead and
from all of us here in Bradford goodbye