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joined now by the London MP George

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Galloway who yesterday reminded us that

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he argued that the wars in Afghanistan

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and Iraq would increase the threat of a

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terrorist attack in Britain tragically

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he went on londoners have now paid the

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price of the government ignoring such

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warnings that was a pretty crass thing

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to say there wasn't it when bodies are

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still not even buried or identified well

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actually the political note was set by

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the Prime Minister and the president of

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the United States within moments of the

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explosions hours before I made my speech

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in the Commons the argued that these

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events were a Vindication of their

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so-called war on terror and a

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justification for continuing down the

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path that they're on and no one can

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allow that because it's precisely that

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path it's precisely those policies that

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have led us to this but don't don't you

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think you owe it to the relatives of the

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Bev to be more sensitive at this time

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than to tell them that they paid a price

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for a policy because it sounds as if you

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were playing the politics of the last

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atrocity no no it was Mr Bush and Mr

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Blair who spoke first who were as the

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leaders of count playing the politics of

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the last atrocity seeking to use these

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poor dead people most of whom I'm sure

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opposed these wars just as much as I did

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because most people in London did in

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overwhelming numbers you were saying I

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told you were saying I told you so no no

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because I'm trying to stop the next

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attack I'm stop trying to stop the next

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dis everybody wants so let's have a

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discussion then let's not recriminate

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let's talk about how we can stop but you

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caused Great offense to no I didn't

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actually actually pois tongue a pull of

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blood according to the Armed Forces

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Minister from the Armed Forces Minister

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well I don't think we need to say much

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more about that he would say that

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wouldn't he as uh as uh a famous uh

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Harlot once said the reality is that if

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we continue with the current policy

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there are going to be more tragedies

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such as this would you negotiate with

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these people not with them there's no

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negotiating with them because they don't

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have a program that can be negotiated

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with what we need to do is dry up the

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swamp out of which they're feeding

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breeding and growing we need to address

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the issues that provide a base for them

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in the world where millions of people

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support them some of them actively

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that's a fact you look surprised no I

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don't look surprised you're saying

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something which everybody agrees with we

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want F terrorists absolutely but the

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question is how do you go about that do

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you do you engage with them no you don't

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nothing on God's Earth that they want is

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there there's no point in talking to

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them but if you address the issues no of

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course lock them up shoot them do let's

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do what we can to stop them in any way

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I'm for that but unless we address the

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causes which are providing the recruits

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for them the disaster in Palestine the

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road map that's drenched in Blood and

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going nowhere the occupation of Iraq the

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propping up of tyrants in the Muslim

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World unless we drop address these

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issues they'll get there'll be 10,000

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new you really think that the people who

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blew up commuters in a London tube were

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think about any of these things no I'm

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telling you these people cannot be

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negotiated with no but they were

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recruited from somewhere weren't they

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look the fish needs water in which to

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swim it needs recruits it needs

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supporters but there are plenty of

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people who think that there's something

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wrong in Palestine or plenty of people

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who oppose the Iraq war or Afghanistan

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who don't do anything like this but look

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the Torah Bora once held a few hundred

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alqaeda members now there are probably

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thousands of al-Qaeda supporters around

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the world actively seeking to hurt us

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now how do we dry that up is the

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question how do we drain that swamp of

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hatred and bitterness against us that's

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feeding these people and making them

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more powerful I'm sure sure everybody

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does agree with that but do you not owe

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it to your constituents to speak more

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carefully about this subject when you

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know that Muslim leaders are saying do

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exactly that don't you lecture me about

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my constituents I'm answerable to them I

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wasn't leing you I'm asking you do you

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not it at a time when Muslim

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leaders very calm been walking around my

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consc careful about your language please

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I've been walking around my constituency

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all day and you know what everybody

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agrees with me and if you didn't live in

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this bubble in everybody in your

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constituency agrees with George everyone

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that I met today every single one and I

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met hundreds and hundreds today and if

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you didn't live inside this bubble

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inside the belt where you'd know theast

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MOS doesn't live in this bubble and he

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wants people to be very careful you

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think the IM of the East London Moss

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doesn't agree with me he wants people to

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be very careful about the language that

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they use list listen most people in this

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country outside this bubble know that

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what I'm saying is right and the

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overwhelming number of people around the

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world know that what I'm saying is right

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it's only because you persist in parting

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government orthodoxies which you've been

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doing for some years I've been watching

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you it's because people heart innocent

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people then the people who did it are to

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blame but you can't separate it from the

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backdrop of which it forms a part that's

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the thesis that differentiates us from

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the uh platitudes of Mr Blair who wants

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to be tough on terror but ignore the

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causes of Terror so Tony Blair has

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brought destruction to London well the

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people who brought destruction to London

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were primarily the people who committed

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the acts of mass murder all we say is we

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refused to be part of a conspiracy to

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deny that it has anything to do with the

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fact that our country is going around

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the world setting fire to other people's

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countries and killing them I think

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there's hardly a sentient being in the

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land left who does doesn't believe that

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these things are connected although when

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I said it in the House of Commons just

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four weeks ago the sky fell in on me

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including on The Today program well you

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say that the fault lies with those who

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carried out the attack so you're

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condemning the suicide bombs in London

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well I'm almost insulted by that

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question I have condemned it utterly in

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the most vitriolic terms on every

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occasion I've spoken which is every day

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and including on the day in the House of

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Commons in a way I'm bound to say how

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dare you ask me that question the sort

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of well the reason I ask it is because

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the kind of language that you've

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employed in this series of interviews

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for television stations in Middle East

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could I'm sure you you will agree be

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seized upon by certain people as a

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justification for what they plan to do

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Madam if I say a car has four wheels and

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the Ford Motor Company say it has four

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wheels that doesn't make me a part of

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the Ford Motor Company I am telling you

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the truth as I see it it was my duty to

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do so I did it in the house of on the

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day of the bombing the entire media and

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political class fell on top of my head I

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was insulted on news Night by uh by your

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gav esler uh who said I was crass and

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within 10 days 85% of the people in the

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opinion polls agreed with me so please

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don't misrepresent what I'm saying I'm

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utterly against the punishing of

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innocent people for the crimes of the

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guilty whether it's done on the

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Underground in London or on the streets

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of fua by George Bush's Air Force when

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you said on your Middle East television

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interview that the insurgents are

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Martyrs what did you mean well I didn't

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say the insurgents are Martyrs and

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you're drawing from well the Iraqi

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resistance in Iraq a martys you said a

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martyr by definition is dead the Iraqi

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resistance are very much alive and the

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problem is they're making a lot of other

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people dead and I want to stop the

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killing I want to withdraw our soldiers

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and the United States soldiers from a

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disastrous War based on a tower of Lies

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which any sentient person can already

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see was a huge blunder it seems that in

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the last routs of the BBC and in Downing

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Street there's an unwillingness to

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accept that but I can tell you as

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someone who lives their life in

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Democratic politics amongst the people

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of this country it's you who's isolated

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not me you have said that two of your

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beautiful daughters are in the hands of

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foreigners Jerusalem and Baghdad the

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foreigners are doing to your daughters

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as they will some Arab count countries

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are collaborating with the rape of those

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two beautiful Arab daughters why did you

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choose to use such inflammatory language

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language which according to your critics

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people like Eric Joyce put the lives of

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British soldiers at risk well I don't

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think there are any British soldiers

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occupying Jerusalem or Baghdad for that

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matter but I believe the foreign

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occupations of Jerusalem and Baghdad are

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at the heart of the crisis between the

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the Muslim world and the non-muslim

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world the East and the west and I

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believe we have to address that and if

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we don't we're doomed to be locked into

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a cycle of violence our violence to them

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their violence to us I want to break

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that cycle I believe that Baghdad is

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illicitly illegally violently occupied

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by the United States I believe that

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Jerusalem is illegally violently

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occupied by General Chiron I'm not alone

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in that view you're not alone in your

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view about not uh wanting to end British

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troops position in Iraq indeed there are

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other politicians who've argued against

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the war in the same way not in the

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language that you've employed you talk

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of Arab countries collaborating with the

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rape of two beautiful Arab daughters

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Jerusalem and Baghdad well with language

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like that let me just finish with

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language like that are you prepared to

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take responsibility for Fanning the

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Flames of an already dangerous situation

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fueling disaffection for example among

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British Muslim youth who will then say

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well here's our justification for

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staging suicide bombings for for going

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to Al-Qaeda training camps don't you

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dare try and place responsibility for

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that on me I'm the person who if I I had

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been listened to we wouldn't be in this

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mess we wouldn't be in Iraq if the BBC

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and the British government had listened

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to the millions of British people

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marching against the war we are the

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people who told you if you attack Iraq

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in this way you'll make 10,000 new bin

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laddin we are the people who beseeched

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you to stop pedling your propaganda lies

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about the need for this war but you see

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this comes back who should be accusing

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you not you who's accusing me this comes

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back to the argument though that we

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weren't in Iraq when 9/11 happened when

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B was bombed over the past 12 years

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Al-Qaeda have attacked 26 countries it's

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not just Iraq I know that argument I

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heard it the first time employed by Mr

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Blair and you've uh you've succinctly uh

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restated his position but it's true but

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it's not true the alqaeda phenomenon

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arose out of the first war on Iraq arose

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out of the occupation of Jerusalem and

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the killing of the Palestinians and the

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dispersal of the refugees around the

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world arose out of our support for the

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puppet presidents and corrupt Kings of

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the Muslim world that's how the al-Qaeda

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phenomenon arose now I don't know if

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Usama Bin Laden would stop attacking us

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if we stopped doing what we're doing in

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the Muslim world but I tell you this I

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know that a fish needs water in which to

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swim and if we did what I'm suggesting

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that we do we would dry up the swamp in

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which alqaeda and these other

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obscurantists these medieval

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obscurantists want to swim I'm not

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wanting to negotiate with Bin Laden but

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with those who haven't joined him yet

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was it wise to say as you said it's not

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the Muslims who are the terrorists the

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biggest terrorists are Bush and Blair

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well that's my view I was elected on

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that view I have a mandate for that view

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you may not like that view but it is my

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view that the biggest terrorist in the

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world is George W bush now I have to

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tell you say bu Blair are more

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terrorists than those who blew up London

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on the July have you any idea how many

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innocent people George Bush and Tony

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Blair have killed over the last three

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and a half years have you any idea how

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many people they killed in Afghanistan

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how many people they've killed in Iraq

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how many people their weapons have

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killed in Palestine what about the

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numbers of innocent civilians the that

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have been killed by the insurgents in

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Iraq if you did have any idea you

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wouldn't even ask me that question if

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it's a question of quantum there's far

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more blood on the hands of George Bush

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and Tony Blair than there is on the

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hands of the murderers who killed those

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people in London it's it's a question of

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quantum there is no question