1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,480 discuss the entire security picture in 2 00:00:02,399 --> 00:00:06,720 the EU at the moment with RT Sputnik 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,000 host and former MP George Galloway. He 4 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,400 joins us. Thanks very much for coming on 5 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,400 to the program uh this evening. Um 6 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,599 firstly, let's just discuss what David 7 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,200 Cameron's been saying because the 8 00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:18,080 British prime minister is very keen to 9 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,840 start bombing Syria. Um do you feel 10 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:22,880 though this time he'll get enough 11 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:26,800 support within parliament to do that? Uh 12 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:29,279 probably yes. Um, it will be more or 13 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:33,040 less a gesture because there's no 14 00:00:29,279 --> 00:00:36,960 shortage of people bombing Syria already 15 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:40,640 and it will not be accompanied by a 16 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:45,040 crackdown on Western funding for the 17 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:47,920 groups that are in the same package as 18 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:51,120 ISIS, al-Qaeda, and other extremist 19 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:55,600 groups. We'll continue to do that. our 20 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:59,039 allies in the Persian Gulf and our NATO 21 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:01,920 ally in Turkey uh will not turn away 22 00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:05,519 from their attacks on the Kurdish people 23 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:09,600 and seriously tackle their yesterday 24 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:12,479 allies uh in the same boat. So, uh it'll 25 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:15,680 be a symbolic gesture. Uh but the the 26 00:01:12,479 --> 00:01:20,000 the war drums are beating. The media is 27 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:22,479 in full almost uh fanatical mode. And so 28 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,119 I'm sure that the House of Commons will 29 00:01:22,479 --> 00:01:28,479 vote to extend the British uh 30 00:01:25,119 --> 00:01:31,360 involvement in the region from Iraq to 31 00:01:28,479 --> 00:01:33,119 uh across the Syrian border. Mr. Cameron 32 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,640 says it's important that Britain is seen 33 00:01:33,119 --> 00:01:36,479 to be doing something. Do you think or 34 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:39,360 what do you think Britain could do more 35 00:01:36,479 --> 00:01:42,720 constructively to help? Well, they could 36 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:45,920 tackle the way in which the finances of 37 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:49,680 these groups uh continue to be largely 38 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:52,000 unhindered. uh they could uh uh ensure 39 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,240 their best friend. They tell us Saudi 40 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,079 Arabia is their best friend in the 41 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,040 Muslim world. Well, they could tell 42 00:01:56,079 --> 00:02:01,520 their best friend that it has to stop 43 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:04,640 all this arming and funding and 44 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:07,680 extending propaganda 45 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:10,239 and dipl to these uh groups. Uh they 46 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:14,000 could do the same as I say with their 47 00:02:10,239 --> 00:02:16,879 formal NATO ally in Turkey. That would 48 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:20,080 be a far better British contribution. Uh 49 00:02:16,879 --> 00:02:22,239 Britain has been so much a part of all 50 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:26,239 the disasters in the Middle East 51 00:02:22,239 --> 00:02:30,879 including the uh attack on Syria uh uh 52 00:02:26,239 --> 00:02:32,720 in the uh past uh in covert form and of 53 00:02:30,879 --> 00:02:37,040 course the invasion and occupation of 54 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:39,680 Iraq which set uh much of the momentum 55 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:42,480 of this fanaticism going in the first 56 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,640 place. Um just to get your opinion on 57 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,080 what President Obama has said today. I 58 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:48,080 mean, we saw him talking with Putin at 59 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,560 the G20 summit just the last week, and 60 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,560 things did seem pretty cordial, but now 61 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,319 we're hearing in his latest speech, he's 62 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,879 claiming that Russia's campaign in Syria 63 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:59,200 is actually perhaps helping ISIS because 64 00:02:56,879 --> 00:03:02,000 it also targets the opposition. Uh, 65 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:04,959 what's your view on that? Well, I mean, 66 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:07,200 Obama is hot and cold, uh, as he's been 67 00:03:04,959 --> 00:03:11,120 on many issues and right from the start 68 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:14,480 of his presidency. I had hoped that, uh, 69 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,800 after that tetat with President Putin 70 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:19,519 that we'd see a more sensible American 71 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:23,120 policy, but it doesn't look as if that's 72 00:03:19,519 --> 00:03:26,879 going to happen. And therefore all hopes 73 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:30,879 of a genuinely united front against uh 74 00:03:26,879 --> 00:03:34,400 these uh uh killers, this death cult uh 75 00:03:30,879 --> 00:03:37,200 appear to be foundering now. Uh because 76 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:40,000 if you see Russia and the Syrian 77 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:42,239 government as the problem, then you're 78 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,640 certainly not going to come upon the 79 00:03:42,239 --> 00:03:46,879 solution. So I'm not sure at what 80 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,680 juncture we now stand. We'll get a 81 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:52,000 clearer picture, no doubt, once Mr. 82 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,319 Cameron brings his motion before the 83 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,799 House of Commons. Uh but I don't think 84 00:03:54,319 --> 00:03:59,840 we're going to defeat these people uh 85 00:03:56,799 --> 00:04:02,720 anytime soon. You see, they keep talking 86 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:05,200 about the uh need for bombardment, but 87 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,959 as I started out by saying, bombs are 88 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:10,239 not going to solve this problem. They're 89 00:04:06,959 --> 00:04:12,720 not solving it yet. Uh in any case, 90 00:04:10,239 --> 00:04:15,360 despite all the bombs that are falling, 91 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:18,000 only a ground war can defeat these 92 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,880 people. And there already is a ground 93 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,759 war. And we should support the army, the 94 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:27,040 Syrian army and the Iraqi army who are 95 00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:28,960 in that ground war and stop assisting 96 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,520 the people that they are fighting 97 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:34,560 against. It's really not rocket science, 98 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,160 but it appears to be beyond our leaders. 99 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,759 And just moving to Europe at the moment 100 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,759 now, because obviously people are very 101 00:04:37,759 --> 00:04:41,759 concerned about security there and the 102 00:04:39,759 --> 00:04:43,520 refugee influx and the possibilities of 103 00:04:41,759 --> 00:04:45,360 terrorism that could be linked to that. 104 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,280 Um, do you think tightening borders is 105 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,520 the answer? 106 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:52,400 Uh well, of course, uh border checks 107 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,880 have to be a part of it, and I listened 108 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:58,080 with some alarm to the report you just 109 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:01,120 uh ran. Uh I'm not sure that the Shenhen 110 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:04,880 agreement can survive the crisis that we 111 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:07,600 currently have. Uh I'm not sure what all 112 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,160 this expenditure on intelligence is 113 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:12,560 achieving. Um there are reports today 114 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,520 that virtually every terrorist that's 115 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:18,160 been involved in outrages over recent 116 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:20,720 years was already on the radar of 117 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:23,360 intelligence. And indeed the so-called 118 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:26,400 mastermind of the Paris events appears 119 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:29,039 to have been able to move between ISIS 120 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:32,720 controlled territory in Syria and Europe 121 00:05:29,039 --> 00:05:35,680 back and forward regularly uh without uh 122 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:39,199 uh intervention without uh uh being 123 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:41,360 stopped. So uh there are many many 124 00:05:39,199 --> 00:05:44,000 aspects to this whole affair that don't 125 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:47,680 really add up, don't really make much 126 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:50,080 sense. I'm not sure that the uh western 127 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,639 countries that claim to have been 128 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:56,560 fighting ISIS over this last period 129 00:05:52,639 --> 00:05:58,960 really were doing so. and the events of 130 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:02,560 the last 24 hours where they've started 131 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:04,960 to go cold on the idea, the Russian idea 132 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,600 of a united front, a genuine 133 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:10,560 international united front against them 134 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:13,120 uh uh has uh has, as I say, gone cold. 135 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:16,400 So, um I'm wondering who ISIS really 136 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:20,240 are, who their friends really have been, 137 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:23,039 and who their enemies, uh as declared, 138 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,720 uh really were in terms of sort of the 139 00:06:23,039 --> 00:06:28,319 political ramifications too within 140 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:30,720 Europe. I mean, do you see do you see it 141 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:32,720 likely that we're going to see a big 142 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:35,039 move now towards far-right movements 143 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,720 within uh and political parties within 144 00:06:35,039 --> 00:06:38,160 Europe as a result of this? Presumably, 145 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,440 this is something that they can jump on 146 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:44,319 to. Yes. There's a real danger of that 147 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:46,800 in France in particular, but in Belgium, 148 00:06:44,319 --> 00:06:49,919 too. Uh, we've got a bi-election coming 149 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:52,800 up in Old. It would be very bad news, I 150 00:06:49,919 --> 00:06:55,919 think, if the far right xenophobic 151 00:06:52,800 --> 00:07:00,639 nationalist UKIP were to win that 152 00:06:55,919 --> 00:07:04,240 bi-election. Um, but undoubtedly the uh 153 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:08,160 air is full of propaganda, xenophobic, 154 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,680 islamophobic propaganda. Let's go in. I 155 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,960 it was put to me on the radio this 156 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:16,720 morning by a national radio presenter. 157 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:18,800 Uh we'll be in Raqqa by Christmas. Well, 158 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,120 of course, uh the presenter had no 159 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,680 intention of going into Raqqa himself or 160 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,240 sending his son there and appeared 161 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:29,680 oblivious to the fact that whatever 162 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,840 strength there is in Raqqa, was uh was 163 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,440 greatly assisted by the British 164 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,479 government that is now claiming they 165 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:40,160 will be in Raqqa by Christmas. It's an 166 00:07:36,479 --> 00:07:42,560 extraordinarily convoluted imbroio this 167 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:45,360 and uh I don't think we have the men or 168 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,440 the measures at the top in British 169 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,479 society to meaningfully get to grips 170 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,639 with it. And just on a final point uh 171 00:07:50,479 --> 00:07:54,400 George, is there much of a backlash 172 00:07:52,639 --> 00:07:55,919 towards Muslims in Britain at the 173 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,400 moment? This is a concern across many 174 00:07:55,919 --> 00:08:00,879 countries in Europe. Well, I was at a 175 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,759 very large mosque in the Walthamto area 176 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:06,160 of London campaigning on Friday. uh 177 00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:10,800 thousands of Muslims were there. They 178 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:14,160 were, as 99% of all Muslims always do, 179 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:16,240 utterly denouncing the death cult, ISIS. 180 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,960 Uh but every single one of them, I 181 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:21,520 think, was anxious about what this 182 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:24,160 atmosphere means for themselves, their 183 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:26,639 families, their property, their mosques, 184 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:30,160 their schools and so on. It's a very 185 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:32,640 very dark moment that we have arrived at 186 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:35,519 uh in world history and those who are 187 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:38,800 responsible for it will uh will be 188 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:40,399 condemned forever in history I believe. 189 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,839 Okay, look good to talk to you. We have 190 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:44,080 to leave it there. That was George 191 00:08:41,839 --> 00:08:48,360 Galloway, host of Sputnik and a former 192 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,360 MP. Uh thank you.