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I'm very grateful to the organizers for

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making this possible. I consider it a

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great distinction to stand on the podium

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at Baruk College named for the great

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Bernard Baruk who first in 1946 proposed

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that weapons of mass destruction be

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placed under international inspection

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and control. Um, I'm grateful to the

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audience also for giving me the chance

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to revisit my misspent Trosky's days.

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Dishing out a leaflet in steaming heat

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on the street outside made me feel and

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look, I hope much

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younger. And um, we're also, of course,

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on this side of the house here to share

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with Mr. Galloway the ambition that his

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views and his uh, record be much better

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known than they are. And most of you, I

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hope, will have the leaflet that details

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uh, this. And those of you who don't,

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those of you who are watching or joining

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us um from other audiences can go to

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hitchens.com and download the whole lot

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and I hope they will and share

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it.

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Um an impression I think ladies and

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gentlemen has been allowed to form and

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perhaps even to coagulate and to congeal

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that it is only those of us who support

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the regime change, the revolutionary

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change in Iraq who have any explaining

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to do. Um I think that that assumption

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needs to be counted from the very

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beginning. Uh if you examine the record

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of the so-called anti-war movement in

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this country and imagine what would have

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happened had its council been listened

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to over the last 15 and more years. You

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would have a world in which the

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following would be the case. Saddam

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Hussein would be the owner and occupier

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of Kuwait. he would have succeeded in

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the annexation, not merely the invasion,

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but the abolition of an Arab and Muslim

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state that was a member of the Arab

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League and of the United Nations. And

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with these resources, as we now know,

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because he lost that war, he was

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attempting to equip himself with the

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most terrifying arsenal that it was

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possible for him to lay his hands on.

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That's one consequence of anti-war

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politics. That's what would have

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happened. In the meanwhile, Slavadan

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Mallovich would have made Bosnia part of

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a greater Serbia and Kosovo would have

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been ethnically cleansed and also

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annexed. Uh the Taliban would be still

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in power in Afghanistan if the anti-war

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movement listened to and al-Qaeda would

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still be their guests and Saddam Hussein

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with his crime family would still be

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privately holding ownership over a

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terrorized people in a state that's been

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most aptly described as a concentration

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camp above ground and a mass grave

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underneath it. Now, if I had that record

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politically, I would be extremely

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modest. I wouldn't be demanding

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explanations from those of us who said

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it's about time that we stop this

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continual capitulation to dictatorship,

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to racism, to aggression, and to

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totalitarian ideology that we will not

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allow to be repeated in Iraq the

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failures in Rwanda and in Bosnia and in

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Afghanistan and elsewhere. And we take

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pride in having taken that position. And

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we take pride in our Iraqi and Kurdish

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friends who are conducting this struggle

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on our behalfs, I should say.

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Um, what did it mean to accept this

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responsibility? We knew it was a weighty

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one and we knew it was a dangerous one.

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I've I've argued I will argue that the

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war was both just and necessary. I think

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one could separate perhaps the two uh

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concepts.

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Um, Iraq had lost its sovereignty as far

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as a state can do under international

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law. There are four conditions under

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which a state may be deemed or said to

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have sacrificed its sovereignty. These

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are if it participates in regular

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aggressions against neighboring states

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or occupations of their

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territory. If it violates all the letter

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and spirit of the terms of the

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non-prololif excuse me the nonp

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proliferation treaty and in other words

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fools around promiscuously with the

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illegal acquisition of weapons of mass

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destruction. Third, if it should violate

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the genocide convention, the

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signatorries to which are obliged

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without further notice to act either to

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prevent or to punish genocide. And

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fourth, if it plays host to

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international gangsters, nihilists,

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terrorists, and jihadists. Iraq met all

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these four conditions repeatedly and

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would demonstrated its willingness to

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repeat them on many occasions. Its

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sovereignty was at an end. It was under

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international sanctions. It was a ward

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of the international community. uh its

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people were being starved in order to

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build palaces for their psychopathic uh

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dictator and it was furthermore

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imploding as a state and as a society.

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The divide and rule policy of the Bath

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party had led to appalling ethnic and

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confessional hatreds within the country.

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An imploded state would have made these

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worse and you know who would have

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invaded then? Turkey would have invaded

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to try and take Kurdistan. Iran would

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have invaded to support its extremist

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Kmeniite proxies. and Saudi Arabia would

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have intervened in order to do the same

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favor for the Sunni and Wahhabist and

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Salafist extremists. As a matter of

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fact, all these three foreign

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interventions are taking place at

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present. All those three powers are

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trying to meddle in Iraq. But we are

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fortunate as are the Iraqi people that

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there is a coalition to hold the ring

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and to prevent it from becoming another

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Rwanda or another Congo, another vortex

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of violence and cruelty and

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destabilization and war. And this I

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think again is a point to take pride in.

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It was the only responsible course. I'm

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willing at any point to take questions

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and I'm sure I shall be invited to about

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my own criticisms of and misgivings

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about differences with uh those who

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conducted and conduct this policy. But

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on this main on these main points, it

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seems to me that there's very little

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room for debate. What are the um Oh,

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thank you.

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Now we we know and we make no secret of

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the extraordinary difficulties that have

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attended this this um I think very noble

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and uh risky and worthwhile enterprise.

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All of you will know all of you will

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have seen some of the abysmal

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consequences of this. Uh but you have I

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think the responsibility of imagining

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what the alternative would be. I am

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simply going to say what I think the

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positive reasons are. Excuse me. The

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positive consequences are um and I hope

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someone will be showing me the time Amy

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just um so I don't trespass on my own

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argument or the patience of uh the

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comrades. Who's going to be showing me

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the time? You. Okay. When will you let

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me know when I've got three minutes? Say

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um positive results, ladies and

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gentlemen, brothers and sisters. Um, a

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man who planned and ordered and

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supervised and took delight in genocide

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and torture and aggression and the

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occupation of two neighboring states and

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the massacres of their people is in jail

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now and will follow Slovador Mallovich

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and Agustoa Pino into the dock quite

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soon. I'm I know there are some people

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here who don't take delight in this, but

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I will say that I do and that it's a

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long overdue

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justice, a long overdue act of justice

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and

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mercy. Um, a constitution, a federal

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democratic constitution is being debated

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now as we speak with the printing of 5

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million copies of a provisional document

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debated on six television channels. six

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and perhaps as many as a 100 newspapers

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in a country where three years ago it

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was death not just for you but for your

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family to possess a satellite dish or to

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attempt to distribute a leaflet. Death

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for you and your family and not a quick

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one either. Does anyone not agree that

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this is a night and day

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difference? I invite them to say if they

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don't. the largest stateless minority in

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the Middle East, the people of uh

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Kurdistan, in other words, who have

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suffered many years of oppression and

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exile and uh and occupation in Syria, in

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Iraq, in Iran, um and in in Lebanon and

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in Turkey uh have begun to scramble, so

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to say, to their feet to assume

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something like their full height as a

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people. Even before the intervention,

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they were producing an autonomy, a

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democracy, a self-determination of their

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own in the provinces of northern Iraq,

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which when I saw them last

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were were a landscape of of

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desolation and

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depravity. You could still smell the

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poison gas. You could still smell the

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mass graves, the ruined cities, the

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burned hillsides, the the women who had

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chemical burns that still burn after

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years. Out of this, the Kurds have begun

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to build and help other Iraqis built

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when they could have been chauvinistic.

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They could have been xenophobic. They

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could have said enough with with Iraq.

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We're we're through with it. We're

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leaving. Instead, accepted their

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internationalist responsibilities.

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President Talibani, it seems to me, is a

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president of whom any country in the

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region could be proud. not just by the

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sort of comparisons one could make. This

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is an extraordinary unarguable and

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ambiguous gain. Um the disarmament of

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Libya, the capitulation of Colonel

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Gaddafi, his his abandonment of his

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covert arsenal of mass weapons of mass

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destruction and the walking back of the

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evidence that he gave us because we all

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have it now. Thank you, sir. in um in

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Oakidge, Tennessee, which I think is the

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right place for it. on analysis was uh

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able to disclose to us that the

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providence of much of this illegal

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weaponry was the AQ Khan network in

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Pakistan, a kind of Walmart for WMD,

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Nukes are us with a line stretching all

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the way from North Korea to the Iraqi

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envoys who in March 2003 as the

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coalition was preparing to intervene

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were negotiating in Damascus with the

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envoys of Kim Jong-il to buy North

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Korean missiles off the shelf. And

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people say Iraq and WMD can't be

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mentioned in the same breath. Now not

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everything about this can be attributed

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to the intervention but it's noticeable

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I think that Colonel Gaddafi did not

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when he wanted to capitulate go to Mr.

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Kofi Anaman for example or that great

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statesman Mr. Jacqu Shiraak a man so

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corrupt as said of Miel Dambear I think

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in sentimental education so corrupt you

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would willingly have paid for the

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pleasure of selling himself. Um nor did

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Ghard Schroeda uh the rump figure of

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what was once a proud German social

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democracy. No, he came to Mr. Blair and

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to Mr. Bush and says, "I'm out of this

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00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,560
game now and you can analyze everything

272
00:10:40,959 --> 00:10:44,240
I've got." That's not nothing, ladies

273
00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:47,760
and gentlemen. And it's a step towards

274
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:51,680
disarmament and non-prololiferation into

275
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:53,279
the bargain. Uh and then the spread, no

276
00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:55,200
less important, of the democratic

277
00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:56,959
impulse within the region. Not only is

278
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,720
this being spread by the vector of the

279
00:10:56,959 --> 00:11:01,200
Kurdish people in their revolution

280
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,360
because as you will you will be readily

281
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,640
able to find if you haven't read of it

282
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,880
already there have been demonstrations

283
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:09,519
in Kamishi the Kurdish main city in

284
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:13,760
northern Syria among the oppressed Kurds

285
00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:16,640
who suffer under the oified theocracy of

286
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,399
Iran and of course in Turkey as well to

287
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,000
pick up the message that yes liberation

288
00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:22,160
is at hand. These demonstrations broke

289
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,000
out on the day that President Talivani

290
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,360
was sworn in as president of Iran.

291
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,200
There's an unmistakable connection

292
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,560
between them. We who have been friends

293
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,079
of the Kurds are very proud of their

294
00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:34,000
achievement and we intend to stand by

295
00:11:30,079 --> 00:11:34,000
them no matter

296
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,880
what. I will add that the the moral

297
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,120
leader of the Egyptian democracy

298
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,360
movement, the man who has begun to break

299
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,959
open the argument in Egypt and who

300
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,040
suffered a long period of imprisonment

301
00:11:50,959 --> 00:11:55,200
during this time and was written to by

302
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,000
Nelson Mandela as Egypt's equivalent has

303
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,360
told me and for quotation that in his

304
00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,120
opinion this new mood in the in the

305
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,720
region would be unthinkable if it was

306
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,120
not for the removal of the single worst

307
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,800
tyrant uh who is present there. Uh

308
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,120
that's not nothing as in point of

309
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,360
testimony. That's from deep within the

310
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,800
bowels of the Egyptian prison system.

311
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,360
The man who is the moral hero of the

312
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,200
democracy movement. He says and I agree

313
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,040
with him and he's echoed by Anoir

314
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,440
Ibrahim as far away as Malaysia who is

315
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:24,000
the Malay equivalent and by the leader

316
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:27,200
of the socialist party of Lebanon

317
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:29,760
uh Mr. Jumblat have all stated publicly

318
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,920
uh that this for them is the beginning

319
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,920
of the end the fall of the wall as they

320
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,839
put it. This I think is also something

321
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,920
to take pride in. Now I could have said

322
00:12:35,839 --> 00:12:40,560
this in front of any audience and

323
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:43,440
against any antagonist. But in my last

324
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:46,480
two minutes I will have to say that I

325
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:48,320
believe it is a disgrace that a member

326
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,600
of the British House of Commons should

327
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,600
go before the United States Senate

328
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,160
subcommittee and not testify but decline

329
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,320
to testify and to insult all those who

330
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,480
try to ask him questions with the most

331
00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,959
vile and cheap gutter snipe abuse. I

332
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,959
think that's a disgrace.

333
00:13:05,959 --> 00:13:11,519
And that's it. I've got one minute. I've

334
00:13:08,639 --> 00:13:14,040
got one minute. I've got one minute. And

335
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:18,279
it is worse. It is worse than a

336
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,279
disgrace. If you

337
00:13:19,279 --> 00:13:23,600
That's not coming. That's not coming out

338
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:26,360
of my time. If you knew how you looked

339
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:29,360
and sounded, comrades, when you do

340
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,639
that, well, you the cameras can take

341
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:35,040
care of it. That's not coming out of my

342
00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:37,680
time. It is not just a disgrace. It is a

343
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:40,160
crime that Mr. Gaddafi has profited from

344
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:42,560
the theft of money from the Iraqi oil

345
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,160
for food program. Has told continuous

346
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,160
lies about his profitering from it and

347
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,240
the foul associates that he made at a

348
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,720
time when Iraqi children were dying and

349
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,160
11 billion from this program. 11 billion

350
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,959
went to the murderer and criminal and

351
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,720
sadist and fanatic Saddam Hussein.

352
00:13:54,959 --> 00:13:59,040
How can anyone who's a business partner

353
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,279
of this regime show their face in a city

354
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,480
like this and not content with it? Not

355
00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:08,680
content with

356
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:11,040
it. Not content with it. He turns up in

357
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:13,199
Damascus. The man's search for a

358
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,920
tyrannical fatherland never ends. The

359
00:14:13,199 --> 00:14:18,160
Soviet Union's let him down. Albania's

360
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:21,519
gone. The Red Army's out of Afghanistan

361
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:23,440
and Czech. The hunt persists. Saddam has

362
00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:25,040
been overthrown and his criminal

363
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,920
connections with him have been exposed.

364
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:30,240
But on to the next. On the 30th of July

365
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,760
in Damascus in Syria appearing, I've

366
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,240
given it all to you in a piece of paper

367
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,600
in front of Mr. Assad whose death squads

368
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,160
are cutting down the leaders of

369
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,519
democracy in Lebanon as this is going on

370
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,440
to tell the Syrian people they're

371
00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:43,199
fortunate to have such a leader. The

372
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,360
slobbering Dofa who they got because

373
00:14:43,199 --> 00:14:48,480
he's the son of the slobbering tyrant

374
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:51,040
who came before him. How anyone with a

375
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,959
teacher of socialist principle can act

376
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,040
or speak in this way is beyond me and I

377
00:14:52,959 --> 00:14:56,560
hope ladies and gentlemen far beyond you

378
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,560
and far beneath your contempt. Thank

379
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,560
you.

380
00:15:02,510 --> 00:15:21,600
[Applause]

381
00:15:18,279 --> 00:15:22,760
George George Galloway, your response.

382
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,440
Well,

383
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,600
uh, chair, ladies and gentlemen,

384
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,760
slobbering was the note that Mr.

385
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:33,279
Hitchens chose to end on. I'm not sure

386
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:36,160
that was wise.

387
00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:37,240
Bring it on. Bring it on. But, uh, I

388
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:41,920
want to

389
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,920
begin by praising Mr.

390
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:50,079
Hitchens in Dundee, my home

391
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,800
city, at the annual delegate meeting of

392
00:15:50,079 --> 00:15:54,600
the National Union of

393
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:59,040
Journalists 25 years

394
00:15:54,600 --> 00:16:04,279
ago. The same Mr. Hitchens made a speech

395
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:07,040
in which he praised me and the city

396
00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:12,000
council for what he described as its

397
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:15,600
brave act of twinning the city of Dundee

398
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:18,040
with the Palestinian city of Nablas.

399
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,240
He said, "No, no,

400
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,320
no. Must have been someone. He said that

401
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,560
it was uh I didn't interrupt you, so

402
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:27,560
perhaps you'll not slobber over my

403
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,560
remarks.

404
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,560
someone

405
00:16:29,399 --> 00:16:34,959
else. You see, it was very important Mr.

406
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:38,000
Hitchens support for the Palestinian

407
00:16:34,959 --> 00:16:41,880
people. And it was not easy. In 1980,

408
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:45,519
only a few years before the Palestinian

409
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:49,440
resistance had seized the Israeli

410
00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:52,120
Olympic Games team in Munich and had

411
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:56,240
committed what most people in the world

412
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:59,279
described as an act of mass terrorism.

413
00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,279
Mr. Hitchen's courageous stand with

414
00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:04,400
groups like the popular front for the

415
00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:07,679
liberation of Palestine, the hijackers

416
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:10,319
of many an aircraft, the carrying out of

417
00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:14,240
many a military operation was very

418
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:18,240
significant because it was very rare.

419
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:22,319
Equally, I want to thank Mr. Hitchens

420
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:25,880
for the brave stand that he made against

421
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:28,200
the war on Iraq in

422
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:31,039
1991. I want

423
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:33,280
to I want to say and I've never had the

424
00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:37,960
chance to thank him for this. One of the

425
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:42,799
magic moments of that great

426
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,799
era was Christopher Hitchens on

427
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:50,600
television with the gunnut Charlton

428
00:17:47,559 --> 00:17:53,240
H. When H was

429
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:57,679
fulminating, desperate to get in

430
00:17:53,240 --> 00:18:00,440
there, desperate to attack, Hitchens

431
00:17:57,679 --> 00:18:04,880
told him to keep his wig

432
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:08,960
on. And then he asked him magically to

433
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:12,799
name four countries with a border with

434
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:16,320
the country he was so keen to invade.

435
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:18,600
And H of course could name none. That

436
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:22,080
was important because it was very

437
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:25,520
difficult to oppose the war against Iraq

438
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:28,799
in 1991. After all, it was ruled by

439
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:30,280
somebody called Saddam Hussein.

440
00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:34,160
It was governed

441
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:37,559
by the Bath party who continued to

442
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:40,320
govern it thereafter. It was only three

443
00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:43,360
years since those chemical weapons that

444
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:45,840
Mr. Hitchens could still smell when he

445
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:48,080
was last there had been launched against

446
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:52,440
the Kurdish people whom he will never

447
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:57,440
leave alone. Only three years before

448
00:18:52,440 --> 00:19:00,080
Halabja had taken place. And of course,

449
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,000
perhaps most significantly of all, it

450
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:06,640
was difficult to oppose that attack on

451
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:09,280
Iraq in 1991 because Iraq had invaded

452
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:12,320
and abolished, to quote him a few

453
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:15,280
minutes ago, a member state of the Arab

454
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:17,679
League of the United Nations, a Muslim

455
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:20,280
Arab country. Notwithstanding all of

456
00:19:17,679 --> 00:19:22,120
these things, Mr.

457
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:25,720
Hitchens

458
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:30,039
bravely, fanatically you may say, stood

459
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:34,520
against the idea of President George

460
00:19:30,039 --> 00:19:37,000
Bush invading Iraq in

461
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:41,400
1991. What you

462
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:45,760
are what you have witnessed

463
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:48,080
since is something unique in natural

464
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,760
history.

465
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:54,000
The first ever

466
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:57,240
metamorphosis from a butterfly back into

467
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,240
a slug.

468
00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:02,000
Not bad. And

469
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:10,799
uh I mention I mentioned slug

470
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:14,880
purposefully because the one thing a

471
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:17,640
slug does leave behind it is a trail of

472
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:21,600
slime.

473
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:24,400
Now, I was brought up by my father on

474
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:27,520
the principle never to wrestle with a

475
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,480
chimney sweep because whatever you do,

476
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:33,600
you can't come out

477
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:37,240
clean. But you, Mr. Hitchens, are no

478
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:40,720
chimney sweep. That's not cold

479
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:44,000
dust in which you are covered.

480
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:48,559
You are covered in the stuff you like to

481
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:51,520
smear on to others. Not just me with

482
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:54,000
your gobellian leaflets full of

483
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:57,280
selective quotation, halftruth,

484
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,880
mistruth, and downright untruth and the

485
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,679
comments you made in your last two

486
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,400
minutes of this

487
00:21:00,679 --> 00:21:07,720
speech. But people much more gentle than

488
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:11,280
me. People like Cindy

489
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,280
Shihan, whom you

490
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:18,000
described, whom you

491
00:21:14,919 --> 00:21:22,559
described, whom you described as a sob

492
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:26,640
sister, as a flake, as a Larouchi, a

493
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:29,480
woman who gave the life of her son for

494
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:33,120
the war that you have come here to glory

495
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:36,480
in. People like Mr. Hitchens are ready

496
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:39,320
to fight to the last drop of other

497
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:43,559
people's blood and it's utterly

498
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:46,880
contemptable. Utterly and completely

499
00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:46,880
contemptable. Now

500
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:53,919
uh Hitchens makes much and I know that

501
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:56,360
he will in his next segment. So I shall

502
00:21:53,919 --> 00:22:00,720
to coin a phrase preempt

503
00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:03,080
it of the nature and character of those

504
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:06,080
resisting the foreign invasion and

505
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:08,799
occupation in Iraq. I spoke last night

506
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:12,080
in Boston in a hall where many of the

507
00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:15,360
leaders of the great American revolution

508
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:18,480
stood and spoke. My favorite member of

509
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:20,640
the British Parliament has a statue.

510
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:24,559
It's the first one you meet as you walk

511
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:28,480
in St. Steven's entry. It is a statue of

512
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:30,799
Charles James Fox. He was expelled twice

513
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,600
from Parliament for supporting the

514
00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:35,640
American Revolution and supporting the

515
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,520
French

516
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:43,039
Revolution. Now, some might

517
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:45,280
say Fox was wrong supporting the

518
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:49,280
anti-colonial struggle of the American

519
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:52,039
people. After all, some might say,

520
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:54,880
"Better be careful what you wish for,

521
00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:57,799
Charlie. Maybe one day that independent

522
00:22:54,880 --> 00:23:01,720
free country you're supporting the birth

523
00:22:57,799 --> 00:23:04,480
of will be ruled by crazed

524
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:07,600
fundamentalists like Pat Robertson and

525
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:09,960
George W. Bush and Dick Cheney and

526
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:13,200
Michael

527
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:15,760
Ashcrooft." They might have said, "Be

528
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:19,760
careful, Charlie. If this country

529
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:23,600
becomes free, it might one day not even

530
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:26,799
be able to pick up the dead bodies in

531
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:29,080
one of its most important cities a week

532
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:31,919
after they've lain there. Such as the

533
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:35,000
malevolence and incompetence of the

534
00:23:31,919 --> 00:23:39,200
government which will rule

535
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:42,799
it. But Fox would have said no. Fox

536
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:46,000
would have said no. He would have said,

537
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:49,679
"The American people have a right to be

538
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:52,159
free. Who they choose to rule them is a

539
00:23:49,679 --> 00:23:54,159
matter for them. Let them make their

540
00:23:52,159 --> 00:23:58,159
mistakes. Let them have their own

541
00:23:54,159 --> 00:24:02,919
politics. My country has no right to

542
00:23:58,159 --> 00:24:08,320
occupy them any further." Now, I

543
00:24:02,919 --> 00:24:11,320
am I am of Irish background myself. When

544
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:14,640
the Irish people rose in

545
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:17,120
1916 for their freedom to strike one of

546
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:20,400
the first decisive blows against the

547
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:22,799
British Empire on which the sun never

548
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,919
set because God would never trust the

549
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:27,400
English in the dark when the Irish

550
00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:31,400
people

551
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:33,159
rose. The Hitchens of those

552
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:37,200
days in

553
00:24:33,159 --> 00:24:40,679
Bloomsbury, in the salons denounced the

554
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:44,080
Irish rebels as

555
00:24:40,679 --> 00:24:45,480
priestridden, bog trottting Celtic

556
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,760
Gaelic

557
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:51,559
obscurantists to whom they would never

558
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:54,320
issue from Bloomsbury a certificate of

559
00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:57,520
approval. But the only certificate of

560
00:24:54,320 --> 00:25:00,320
approval that mattered was the one

561
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:03,279
issued by the Irish people, not the

562
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:07,640
Liberals in London, who refused to

563
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:11,120
endorse it. My point is

564
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:13,919
this. For us in the United States and

565
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:17,520
the United Kingdom, there is only one

566
00:25:13,919 --> 00:25:20,159
big question. Mr. Bush actually framed

567
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,320
it for us.

568
00:25:20,159 --> 00:25:25,760
Are you

569
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:28,480
with the foreign occupation of Iraq or

570
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:31,440
are you with the right of the Iraqi

571
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:34,080
people to be free and to resist the

572
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:38,039
foreign armies who have violently

573
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:40,440
invaded them? And that's

574
00:25:38,039 --> 00:25:45,360
why that's why

575
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:47,559
that cheap cheap demagoguery by Hitchens

576
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:50,400
at the beginning of this debate got the

577
00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:52,559
reasonable response that it did from

578
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,400
this audience because he wants you to

579
00:25:52,559 --> 00:26:00,159
have he wants you to make a minute

580
00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:03,440
silence for the 145 today. But he can't

581
00:26:00,159 --> 00:26:07,440
bring himself to mention the massacre in

582
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:09,679
Tal Afar over the last 4 days in Iraq.

583
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,720
He doesn't want to know about the

584
00:26:09,679 --> 00:26:16,880
massacre in Fallujah when the American

585
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:21,120
armed forces brick by brick destroyed a

586
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:24,960
city and massacred thousands of people.

587
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:28,240
Now, this debate, as Amy Goodman said,

588
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:32,000
is taking place at a very important time

589
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:33,880
on a very important subject. This war in

590
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,240
which he

591
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,960
glories. Although I wish, how I wish

592
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,679
he'd put on a tin hat and pick up a gun

593
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:46,159
and go and fight himself. How I wish,

594
00:26:41,679 --> 00:26:49,679
how I wish to see that sight.

595
00:26:46,159 --> 00:26:52,799
This war in which he glories has cost

596
00:26:49,679 --> 00:26:56,720
the lives according to those well-known

597
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:57,880
Saddamist fronts the Lancet and John's

598
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:02,159
Hopkins

599
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:05,520
University well in excess of a 100,000

600
00:27:02,159 --> 00:27:08,880
people's lives and hundreds of thousands

601
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:12,720
more have been maimed and wounded and it

602
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:16,640
was all for a pack of lies. There were

603
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,640
no weapons of mass

604
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,600
destruction. There was no link between

605
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,640
Iraq and

606
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:29,600
al-Qaeda. There was no link between Iraq

607
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:33,320
and the atrocities on the 9th of

608
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:38,080
September on the 911 here in the United

609
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:42,080
States. There was no welcome for the

610
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:44,480
foreign armies that invaded Iraq. pitch

611
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,679
said they would be greeted by flowers,

612
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:50,400
but there are 2,000 young American boys

613
00:27:47,679 --> 00:27:52,400
lying in the ground now, testimony to

614
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,880
the fact that they were welcomed by

615
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:58,159
something else. And thousands and

616
00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:00,080
thousands more wounded, maimed, many of

617
00:27:58,159 --> 00:28:03,200
them in wheelchairs for the rest of

618
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:06,159
their lives. testament to the folly of

619
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,720
Hitchens and Bush and Cheney and the

620
00:28:06,159 --> 00:28:12,799
rest of the Neocong gang that dragged

621
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,799
your country into this

622
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,880
disaster. The

623
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:22,799
international

624
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:25,760
international legal and political system

625
00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:27,919
has been defaced and disfigured. The

626
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,640
world has been made a more dangerous

627
00:28:27,919 --> 00:28:32,720
place, not just for us, but for our

628
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,520
children and their children for

629
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:38,080
generations to come. The world has been

630
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,399
made a more dangerous place. Hitchens

631
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,279
asked us to believe that hundreds of

632
00:28:40,399 --> 00:28:46,799
thousands of Western soldiers invading a

633
00:28:43,279 --> 00:28:49,760
Muslim country would make less Islamist

634
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:52,120
fundamentalism. He asked us to believe

635
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,720
that devastating Iraq and making a

636
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:57,520
Yugoslavia on top of the world's biggest

637
00:28:54,720 --> 00:29:00,559
oil field would make the world a safer

638
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:04,640
and more stable place. There is scarcely

639
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:08,480
a sentient being in the land who any

640
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:15,240
longer believes that the war on Iraq was

641
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:15,240
either necessary or just or a good idea.

642
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,559
Now,

643
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:30,000
uh, you may very well ask why so many

644
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:33,760
people wanted to come and hear and watch

645
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:36,960
and listen to two British guys debating

646
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:40,480
in the United States of America about a

647
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:45,200
war far away. I think the reason is

648
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:48,039
this. Our two countries are the biggest

649
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:54,080
rogue states in the world

650
00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:54,080
today. And it is therefore vitally

651
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:03,360
important. It is therefore it is

652
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,919
therefore vitally important that those

653
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,880
who oppose the crimes of our governments

654
00:30:05,919 --> 00:30:12,480
on both sides of the

655
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:14,960
Atlantic link hands, link arms, stand

656
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:18,480
shouldertosh shoulder until we've rid

657
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:20,480
the world of George W. Bush and Anthony

658
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,480
Blair once and for all. Thank you very

659
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,480
much.

660
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,279
Christopher Hitchens, 10 minutes. Well,

661
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,600
I think it's I can say that it's a sort

662
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:48,000
of a pleasure to be um insulted by Mr.

663
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,360
Galloway under any of my identities. Um

664
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,919
I've never made a speech at a

665
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,440
journalist's conference in uh Dundee,

666
00:30:51,919 --> 00:30:55,120
for example. I don't know who does Mr.

667
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,159
to Galloway's research though I think I

668
00:30:55,120 --> 00:31:01,120
can get Aman Macan he said on radio in

669
00:30:58,159 --> 00:31:03,279
New York on Saturday Aean Macan remember

670
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,559
him I remember Aean Macan very well by

671
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:06,720
the way he gives me the opportunity to

672
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:09,360
say that I've been a lifelong supporter

673
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:13,039
of the reunification of Ireland and with

674
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:15,039
Edward say in uh the early years of the

675
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:16,880
inifard as early as ' 86 published a

676
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:18,880
book which you can still get from new

677
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,679
left books verse called blaming the

678
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,799
victims about the uh the struggle for

679
00:31:21,679 --> 00:31:25,520
for the full establishment of

680
00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:27,279
Palestinian ian rights. Um, and yes,

681
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,640
it's true that I was an opponent of the

682
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:30,720
last Gulf War. I don't know why anyone

683
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,960
thought that to make such a point was a

684
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,760
point against me. I dare say I might not

685
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:39,679
have been invited here in this this

686
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:41,600
battle of the Titans. If if it wasn't

687
00:31:39,679 --> 00:31:43,840
tolerably well known that I think I was

688
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,600
probably mistaken on that occasion. If

689
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,880
you can assimilate a point as simil as

690
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,279
simple as that, ladies and gentlemen,

691
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,960
which I dare say you can, for I sh

692
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:52,640
insult you, then I think you'll have to

693
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,039
notice something about what Mr. Galloway

694
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:58,000
just said and the re the rhetorical I

695
00:31:55,039 --> 00:32:00,000
won't say trick I would say squalid

696
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,840
maneuver that underlies it to hear him

697
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,440
speak you would think would you not that

698
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,440
he was a pacifist that he defines

699
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,679
himself as

700
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:10,399
anti-war now how can this be said in

701
00:32:07,679 --> 00:32:12,159
good conscience by someone who has just

702
00:32:10,399 --> 00:32:15,600
standing by the side of the dictator of

703
00:32:12,159 --> 00:32:20,000
Syria on the 30th of July referred to

704
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,760
the 154 heroic operations conducted in

705
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,679
Iraq by the so-called

706
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,399
resistance. A resistance that's run, as

707
00:32:23,679 --> 00:32:28,000
we know, by a senior bin Ladenist and by

708
00:32:26,399 --> 00:32:30,799
many of the former secret police of the

709
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,480
Ba'ist regime. How can someone say and

710
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:36,080
say they're anti-war and they care about

711
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:39,919
casualties that they praise 154

712
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:42,640
operations a day? 145. I ask you 145.

713
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:44,320
He's coming down a bit. Um, no, that's

714
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,720
what it says. It's not that it's not

715
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,399
that many. Says 145 in your Let me

716
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,039
intro, let me remind you of what some of

717
00:32:48,399 --> 00:32:53,279
those operations were.

718
00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:55,360
uh the blowing up by militarygrade

719
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:58,159
explosives of the headquarters of the

720
00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,159
United Nations in Baghdad a few months

721
00:32:58,159 --> 00:33:03,679
after the intervention as it was being

722
00:33:00,159 --> 00:33:06,240
tenanted by Sergio Diello, one of the

723
00:33:03,679 --> 00:33:08,720
great international civil servants of

724
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,320
our time who was fresh from Amy knows

725
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,640
more about this than I, but fresh from

726
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,440
his role in the very belated supervision

727
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,640
of the independence of East Tour from

728
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:19,200
Indonesia and the holding of free

729
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,960
election in East Tour and the jihadists

730
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,360
who murdered him out communicate saying

731
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:26,399
we have today put an end to the life of

732
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:29,519
this disgusting man because he freed

733
00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:31,200
Teimour from Muslim holy land in

734
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:33,120
Indonesia. These people are not

735
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,960
pacifists, ladies and gentlemen. Nor are

736
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,480
they anti-imperialists. If you haven't

737
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,960
noticed, they call for the restoration

738
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,320
of a lost empire, the caliphate, and the

739
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,519
imposition of Sharia law on all

740
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,159
non-believers within its borders. That's

741
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:47,200
not pacifism. That's not

742
00:33:45,159 --> 00:33:49,760
anti-imperialism. and to praise the

743
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,760
people who do

744
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,480
this. To sully the name of Charles James

745
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:02,960
Fox, ladies and gentlemen, with such a

746
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,760
squalid with such a squalid enterprise

747
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,840
of brigandage and conquest is truly

748
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,320
revolting. It's almost as funny as

749
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,720
Michael Moore saying that the res the

750
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,639
Zakawi resistance in Iraq is for him the

751
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:16,480
same as the Minutemen of the American

752
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:18,000
Revolution. There comes a point, and I

753
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,079
think it's come by now, where what

754
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,359
people say is self-discrediting,

755
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:26,520
requires no more comment from me. Some

756
00:34:23,359 --> 00:34:28,960
of this is funny,

757
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,079
okay? Some of it simply shows that the

758
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,159
people on the other side of this house

759
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:34,320
are not serious. The cheap laugh and the

760
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:36,720
easy joke will do for them. Of course,

761
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,480
it's funny that the author of the vagina

762
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:40,079
monologues puts Mr. Galloway on the

763
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,280
campaign trail with Jane Fonda. Who

764
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:46,240
can't laugh at

765
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:48,000
that? I know. I know a number of women

766
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:49,919
who can't wait, people who used to know

767
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,960
Mr. Galloway, to hear a woman talk back

768
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:54,560
to him in any way at

769
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,399
all, but the seriousness of it can't be

770
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,680
concealed. Now, among the people killed

771
00:34:56,399 --> 00:35:01,280
by these heroic

772
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,599
operations in Iraq, some of them run

773
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,079
from Syria and paid for by the human

774
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:08,480
toothbrush and slobbering Doofan Assad,

775
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:11,200
Mr. Galloway's new pal. Among the

776
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,680
victims of these of these operations was

777
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,400
specialist K Casey Shien who was trying

778
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,240
to clean up the festering slum of what

779
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,920
had once been called Saddam City and was

780
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:21,520
now known to us as Sarda City where the

781
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,640
water supply is coming back on. It's

782
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,680
taking a while because people keep

783
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:27,520
blowing it up but it's coming back on.

784
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,800
Now I will put a simple moral

785
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,640
proposition to you and see if I've

786
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:34,160
phrased it all right. Is it not rather

787
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,680
revolting to appear in Damascus by the

788
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,839
side of our side and to praise the

789
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,160
people who killed Casey Shien and then

790
00:35:37,839 --> 00:35:42,880
to come to America and appeal to the

791
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,880
emotions of his

792
00:35:54,839 --> 00:35:59,599
mother. I I I say sincerely I didn't

793
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:02,000
think it could get as low as that. And

794
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:03,599
yes, I did criticize the the luck class,

795
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,599
Mrs. Shian, because she had made a very

796
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:07,599
unfortunate political statement

797
00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:09,839
suggesting that she agreed with Mr. Bin

798
00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:13,560
Laden that George Bush was the murderer

799
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:16,560
of her son, which is not the son. The

800
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:19,760
son, you excelpate the murderer. You

801
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:22,079
excelpate the killers right there. They

802
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,599
didn't kill him. Shame on you. Shame on

803
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:26,960
you for saying that.

804
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:28,640
Now, she had made an unfortunate

805
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,079
statement which I called her on and she

806
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,760
denied having made it, which was a false

807
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:33,119
claim. And she said that someone else

808
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,960
had magically inserted it into her

809
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:36,320
email, which is a claim equally found to

810
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,760
be false. All of these claims, ladies

811
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,680
and gentlemen, can be found to be false

812
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,079
by a moment's checking. If you really

813
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:44,240
believe the crazed fabricated

814
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:45,760
fabrication of the figures of 100,000

815
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:48,800
deaths in Iraq, and if you think that

816
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,640
only people who die in Iraq, excuse me,

817
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,400
that the only deaths caused in Iraq are

818
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,560
by coalition forces, if you're willing

819
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,680
to believe any or all of that, you can

820
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,920
simply go to my colleague Fred Kaplan's

821
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,599
space on slate.com. He's a very stern

822
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:03,280
and strong critic of the war, a great

823
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:05,119
opponent of mine. We've had quite a

824
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,800
quarrel about it. He's a great science

825
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:08,640
writer about science and other matters.

826
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,720
It's a simple matter to show this is

827
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,119
politicized hackwork of the worst kind.

828
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:16,720
The statistics in that in that case have

829
00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:18,560
been conclusively and absolutely shown

830
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:21,760
to be false. And I invite anyone to

831
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,280
check it. Everything I say everything I

832
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,200
say has at least 10 pages of

833
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,960
documentation which I'm willing to share

834
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,280
behind it. And you will have your chance

835
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,640
to challenge me and pass questions to

836
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:35,119
Amy. Now,

837
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:37,760
um I believe that that's really all I

838
00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:41,680
particularly need to say except no clap

839
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:43,440
that fast. That's cruel. That's mean. Um

840
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,240
except to say this about the question of

841
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,760
who's who in this war. Iraq is not being

842
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:49,119
occupied by President Talibani.

843
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,560
President Talibani was born there. He's

844
00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:52,880
had to move a few times. He's seen his

845
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,720
villages destroyed and his home bombed

846
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,800
and his family shot at and murdered and

847
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:58,480
so he's not occupying Iraq. President

848
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,560
Talibani is in fact a leader of the

849
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:03,040
patriotic union of Kurdistan which is

850
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,480
the corresponding member organization of

851
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,640
the Socialist International. It is the

852
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,160
Iraqi member party of the Socialist

853
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,839
International. The Iraqi Communist

854
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,240
Party, a party with a great record of

855
00:38:09,839 --> 00:38:14,320
bad politics but good civil struggle in

856
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:15,920
Iraq and with great organization among

857
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,680
the women and trade unionists and

858
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,839
journalists and workers of the country.

859
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,960
Has of course been a member already of

860
00:38:19,839 --> 00:38:22,720
the provisional government and is

861
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,760
campaigning enthusiastically in the

862
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:25,599
elections. There are probably some

863
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,280
people among you here who fancy yourself

864
00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:28,640
as having leftist revolutionary

865
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,160
credentials. In fact, I can tell that

866
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:33,520
you do from the zoo noises you

867
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,119
make and and the scars you can

868
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,920
demonstrate from your long underground

869
00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:40,000
twilight struggle against Dick Cheney.

870
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,720
But while you're masturbating in that

871
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,480
manner, the Iraqi secular left, the

872
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:46,480
socialist and communist movements, the

873
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,720
workers movement, the trade unions are

874
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:51,599
fighting for their lives against the

875
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:53,119
most vicious and indiscriminate form of

876
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:55,880
fascist violence that any country in the

877
00:38:53,119 --> 00:38:59,200
region has seen for a very long

878
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,640
time. And the full intent of that the

879
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,320
full intent of that was, and I'll say it

880
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,880
to Yes. Yes. in Fallujah was to

881
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,400
establish a Taliban regime and and a and

882
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,839
a safe house for al-Qaeda in future.

883
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,440
That's what we were facing. You think

884
00:39:07,839 --> 00:39:10,760
you could fight that without casualties?

885
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,200
You're irresponsible. You're

886
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,760
ahistorical. We take on this side of the

887
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,599
house without conditions. We take our

888
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,359
side with the struggle of the Iraqi

889
00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:22,160
Democratic and secular left against

890
00:39:19,359 --> 00:39:23,920
fascism. We make no apology. Those who

891
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,760
have betrayed their own party, Mr.

892
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,000
Galloway had to be expelled from the

893
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,160
great labor movement of which I as I'm

894
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,839
myself still a member because of

895
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,320
advocating the shooting publicly

896
00:39:31,839 --> 00:39:36,640
advocating jihad against British troops

897
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,599
now turns on the Iraqi left and wishes

898
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:42,960
them well as they as and wishes and

899
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:45,599
argues and hopes for their defeat by an

900
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:48,000
onslaught which would make Afghanistan

901
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:49,920
uh seem like a civilized country. What

902
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,119
two positions can one take about this? I

903
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,880
invite you to consider ladies and

904
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:56,280
gentlemen and and consider carefully.

905
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,280
And thank you.

906
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,920
I wanted to see if we could get some

907
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,000
wind screens on the microphones here.

908
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,240
Um, but failing that, if you could just

909
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,760
lower your microphone, Mr. Galloway, so

910
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:16,800
that you don't speak right into it.

911
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,280
Great. Uh, 10 minutes. George Galloway.

912
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,520
crazed

913
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:23,839
fabrications. John's Hopkins University

914
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,880
and the Lancet, the Journal of the

915
00:40:23,839 --> 00:40:29,599
British Medical Association, are engaged

916
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,599
in crazed fabrications, politicized

917
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:34,680
fabrications. Isn't that No, crazed

918
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:37,680
fabrications. You said both. Isn't

919
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,680
crazed.

920
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:43,359
Well, is there anybody really in this

921
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,079
hall who believes

922
00:40:43,359 --> 00:40:47,680
that John's that

923
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:48,640
really?

924
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,480
Well, you don't know what you're

925
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,640
supposed to believe yet. You think that

926
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,000
one of the You think that the academics

927
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,839
from one of the world's finest

928
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,520
universities in your own country are

929
00:40:55,839 --> 00:40:59,040
crazed fabricators?

930
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:02,000
[Applause]

931
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,640
You think that the Lancet, the Journal

932
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:07,520
of the British Medical Association are

933
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:12,880
crazed fabricators?

934
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:17,680
I mean, how far I mean, how far how far

935
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:18,599
how far has this neocon rot seeped into

936
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,359
your

937
00:41:18,599 --> 00:41:22,680
souls? How

938
00:41:20,359 --> 00:41:26,319
far? Get it?

939
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,480
Now I'm going to have to deal with this

940
00:41:26,319 --> 00:41:31,800
hypocrite

941
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:35,440
Hitchens. He talks about the death of

942
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:39,400
soldiers in an occupation army at the

943
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:43,880
hands of those resisting them. He

944
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:48,960
supported the Algerian resistance in its

945
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:52,240
bitter battle against French occupation

946
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:55,079
which cost a million lives.

947
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:56,920
and he supported the

948
00:41:55,079 --> 00:42:02,520
LN who

949
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:05,119
conducted the most bitter, unremitting,

950
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,760
unrelenting military struggle which

951
00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:11,119
would today be described and was then by

952
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:14,400
the French described as terrorist.

953
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:18,000
And when Ahmed Benbella, the leader of

954
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:21,760
the Algerian revolution, was asked why

955
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:25,599
he was placing bombs in baby carriages

956
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:28,480
and leaving them in the souk to explode

957
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:31,119
amongst the French forces and their

958
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:33,480
collaborators. He answered, "If the

959
00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:36,240
French will give us some of their

960
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:39,680
helicopters, some of their aeroplanes,

961
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:43,760
we will give them our baby carriages."

962
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:46,480
Isn't that the same situation today that

963
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:50,240
Mr. Hitchens's friends are the ones with

964
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:52,560
all the tomahawks, all the Apaches?

965
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:55,520
Isn't it odd that they should choose as

966
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:58,240
the names of their weapons, the totems

967
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,960
of the Native American population that

968
00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:04,720
they remorselessly massacred in

969
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:08,800
centuries gone by. The Iraqi people have

970
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:11,680
only themselves with which to fight this

971
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:15,720
foreign occupation. This hypocrite

972
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:18,800
crying tears for the American army in

973
00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:22,079
Iraq supported the struggle of the

974
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:26,319
Vietnamese people from the first to the

975
00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:30,319
last as they killed 58,000 American

976
00:43:26,319 --> 00:43:33,760
soldiers in Vietnam. He opposed the

977
00:43:30,319 --> 00:43:37,599
American war in Vietnam and supported

978
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:41,119
those fighting against it. Today, he

979
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:44,000
supports the American occupation of Iraq

980
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:46,800
and seeks to slander those fighting

981
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:50,560
against it. Now, there are al-Qaeda

982
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:53,040
elements in Iraq. Whose fault is that?

983
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,839
Who brought them there? How did they end

984
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:59,359
up in Iraq? There were no al-Qaeda in

985
00:43:55,839 --> 00:44:02,200
Iraq before Bush and Blair attacked it.

986
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:05,599
And now every

987
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,599
Islamist in the

988
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:12,160
world is either on his way or dreaming

989
00:44:09,359 --> 00:44:15,359
of being on his way, descending like

990
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:19,040
spores of anthrax on the gaping wounds

991
00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:21,839
in Iraq created by your war. And I'll

992
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:26,240
tell you what, they'll then spill around

993
00:44:21,839 --> 00:44:30,520
the world, spreading their jihad exactly

994
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:34,480
as his new, or rather old friends in

995
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:37,599
Afghanistan did. The Arab Afghans who

996
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:41,480
were sent by the American administration

997
00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:46,160
to Afghanistan in the 1980s became

998
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:49,119
al-Qaeda in the 1990s and into the 21st

999
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,119
century.

1000
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:59,599
So Mr. Hitchen's policy has succeeded in

1001
00:44:54,079 --> 00:45:01,440
making 10,000 new bin Ladens. He and his

1002
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:04,400
friends, sorry about that, have deepened

1003
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:07,040
didn't mean to do it. have deepened the

1004
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,680
swamp. Really didn't mean of hatred out

1005
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:12,240
of which these

1006
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:16,520
Islamist fundamentalists are climbing.

1007
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:20,640
You see, well, somebody laughs. You may

1008
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:25,680
think that those airplanes in this city

1009
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:27,760
on 911 came out of a clear blue sky. I

1010
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:34,079
believe they emerged out of a swamp of

1011
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:34,079
hatred created by us. I believe I

1012
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:41,520
believe I believe.

1013
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:46,160
[Applause]

1014
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,160
I believe. You know, you

1015
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:56,079
know, I

1016
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:59,079
believe I believe I believe that by I

1017
00:45:56,079 --> 00:45:59,079
believe

1018
00:45:59,630 --> 00:46:03,760
[Applause]

1019
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:07,040
I believe

1020
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:09,720
I believe please please please I believe

1021
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:12,960
be quiet that by their

1022
00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:17,200
unending bottomless

1023
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:20,240
and total support for General Chaon's

1024
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:22,240
crimes against the Palestinian people,

1025
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:23,880
the United

1026
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:26,520
[Music]

1027
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:30,160
States. I don't think

1028
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:31,839
uh I don't think your I don't think your

1029
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,000
new friends are quite as keen on the

1030
00:46:31,839 --> 00:46:35,680
Palestinians as you once were.

1031
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:40,800
Christopher,

1032
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:42,200
I believe I believe that by propping up

1033
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:45,359
by propping

1034
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:48,880
up the puppet presidents and the corrupt

1035
00:46:45,359 --> 00:46:51,440
kings who rule the Muslim world almost

1036
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:55,200
without exception from one end to the

1037
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:59,240
other. Western policy has created this

1038
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:02,880
swamp of hatred against us and

1039
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:02,880
it it won't

1040
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:11,920
matter it it won't matter how many fly

1041
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:14,880
swats we invest in, how many patriot

1042
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:18,440
acts we pass, how many anti-terrorist

1043
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:21,599
measures we pass. If you live beside a

1044
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:24,000
swamp, no amount of fly swats will

1045
00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:27,760
protect you from the monsters who will

1046
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:32,400
come out of that swamp. We have to drain

1047
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:35,920
that swamp by stopping that support for

1048
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:38,880
Chaon's Israel, his apartheite wall, his

1049
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:42,599
crimes against the Palestinian people.

1050
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,599
We have to stop.

1051
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:48,960
See, I tell

1052
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:50,880
you, there's not not many supporters of

1053
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:54,319
the Palestinians in your ranks tonight,

1054
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:56,079
Mr. Hitchens. I think unless we stop

1055
00:47:54,319 --> 00:47:58,560
propping up these dictators in the

1056
00:47:56,079 --> 00:48:01,119
Muslim world, none of whom would last 5

1057
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:03,359
minutes if it were not for the military,

1058
00:48:01,119 --> 00:48:06,720
political, and financial support of

1059
00:48:03,359 --> 00:48:10,319
countries like yours and mine, unless we

1060
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:11,560
stop invading and occupying Arab and

1061
00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:14,920
Muslim

1062
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:19,599
countries, then we will be forced to

1063
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:24,319
endure the atrocities that took place in

1064
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:27,319
New York on 911 and in London on 77 over

1065
00:48:24,319 --> 00:48:31,599
and over again. So if I can't reach your

1066
00:48:27,319 --> 00:48:35,720
heart, let me at least reach your head

1067
00:48:31,599 --> 00:48:38,960
in your own interests in America's own

1068
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:41,520
interests. Reverse your policy towards

1069
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:44,720
Israel and Palestine. Reverse your

1070
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:47,839
policy towards dictators in the Muslim

1071
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:49,680
world. Reverse your policy towards war

1072
00:48:47,839 --> 00:48:54,599
and occupation.

1073
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,599
And we can all be safer.

1074
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:07,360
[Music]

1075
00:49:14,559 --> 00:49:18,240
Christopher Hitchens, 5 minutes. Oh, I

1076
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:21,000
had no idea. That was the appeal to the

1077
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:23,520
cerebellum. That last bit was

1078
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:25,040
it? Well, okay. You You'll forgive me

1079
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,760
for pausing. I was waiting for the next

1080
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,680
shoe to drop. Now, I I'm beginning to

1081
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,119
find myself a little um overwhelmed by

1082
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,079
Mr. Galloway's compliments. I don't know

1083
00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:36,319
where he keeps coming up with them from.

1084
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:37,839
Um it's true he did once say of me that

1085
00:49:36,319 --> 00:49:39,680
I was the greatest living English man of

1086
00:49:37,839 --> 00:49:40,960
letters and pmicist and I was grateful.

1087
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:44,240
I could have wished it wasn't published

1088
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:47,839
in a newspaper nostalgic for the rule of

1089
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:50,800
Brev, but you take your compliments

1090
00:49:47,839 --> 00:49:53,040
where you can. And then I might add that

1091
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,440
if anything ignited the hatred and

1092
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:57,520
violence that has uh so come to

1093
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,520
preoccupy us in the Muslim world. I

1094
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,680
think the uh invasion by the Soviet

1095
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:04,280
Union of the entire territory of

1096
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:07,440
Afghanistan, its virtual annexation as a

1097
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:09,800
country and the certifiable and provable

1098
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,000
massacre of many tens of thousands of

1099
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,440
Afghans uh as well as the insult to

1100
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,440
their religion is probably a better

1101
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:19,200
candidate than the holding of a free

1102
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:19,200
election in Iraq as a

1103
00:50:20,119 --> 00:50:23,839
provocation. But you see, there will

1104
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:25,520
always be bloody fools who think, "Yes,

1105
00:50:23,839 --> 00:50:27,359
of course." Now you look at the

1106
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,400
situation in Gaza. It makes perfect

1107
00:50:27,359 --> 00:50:31,599
sense to commandeer a plane load of

1108
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,040
civilians and smash it into a building

1109
00:50:31,599 --> 00:50:34,880
full of civilians. Why hadn't I thought

1110
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,160
of that before? I think you may have

1111
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:39,359
noticed, Mr. Galloway, that you picked

1112
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,359
the wrong city to say that

1113
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:54,079
in. And uh arguably and um arguably the

1114
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,559
wrong month as well because some of us

1115
00:50:54,079 --> 00:50:59,440
are still

1116
00:50:55,559 --> 00:51:02,599
mourning some of us are still mourning.

1117
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:05,040
Please, please,

1118
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:08,400
please. Some of us are still mourning

1119
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:10,720
among among other things the the the

1120
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,960
very large number the very large number

1121
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:14,880
the very large number of Americans of

1122
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,640
all faiths including very many Arabs and

1123
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,680
Muslims who were killed in that

1124
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:22,079
disgusting atrocity. And when you say if

1125
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:24,480
we don't mend our ways

1126
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:28,000
uh this will happen to us again. If you

1127
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:32,119
weren't an ally of Saddam Hussein and um

1128
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:35,359
and uh Bashar

1129
00:51:32,119 --> 00:51:37,040
al-Assad, if you had not been an ally of

1130
00:51:35,359 --> 00:51:38,800
the preachers of the preachers of hatred

1131
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,720
and subversion in the region, how dare

1132
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:44,240
you say the United States supports the

1133
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:46,240
Assad regime in Syria, you you you say

1134
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:47,920
that you that I have no brief of the

1135
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:50,960
Bush administration in this, but it's

1136
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:53,599
seems to me bizarre that uh someone

1137
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,440
should say fresh from the podium with

1138
00:51:53,599 --> 00:51:56,800
Bashar Assad that the United States

1139
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,359
supports all the dictators in the

1140
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:01,200
region. What is this? We have in concert

1141
00:51:59,359 --> 00:52:03,680
for once, I must say, with the French

1142
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,839
succeeded in gaining some part of the

1143
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:08,240
recovery of the autonomy of Lebanon,

1144
00:52:05,839 --> 00:52:08,240
which was

1145
00:52:08,359 --> 00:52:16,319
under under a most corrupt and brutal

1146
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:18,079
and illegal Syrian occupation. And the

1147
00:52:16,319 --> 00:52:20,880
leader of the le Lebanon Socialist Party

1148
00:52:18,079 --> 00:52:22,319
whose father was murdered by Assad. um

1149
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,680
and the leader of the Lebanese Communist

1150
00:52:22,319 --> 00:52:25,599
Party whose father was murdered last

1151
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,680
month by this Assad and all others

1152
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:30,040
hailed it as a liberation. And you say

1153
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:34,079
it's like the French taking over

1154
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:35,760
Algeria. This is pifle sinister pitiful.

1155
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:37,839
The French claim in Algeria was that

1156
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:41,880
Algeria was part of France. Algerie

1157
00:52:37,839 --> 00:52:45,440
France says we do not say Iraq America

1158
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:48,800
Iraq. We don't let alone ecos which it

1159
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:51,040
might be um if uh the certain numbers of

1160
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:55,480
um no I shall block that metaphor.

1161
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:57,920
Excuse me. Um I came very close there.

1162
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:01,200
Um it's also I think a bit much to be

1163
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:03,760
told that these al-Qaeda chaps these

1164
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:05,599
killers and sadists and nihilists and

1165
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,119
producers of indiscriminate explosions

1166
00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:09,160
wouldn't be this way if we weren't so

1167
00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:12,079
mean to

1168
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,680
them. Now it's true some of them Mr.

1169
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:16,559
Zakawi, their leader, of course, the bin

1170
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,920
Ladenist leader was in Iraq before, was

1171
00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:19,200
well known to have been in Iraq under

1172
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,480
the rule of Saddam Hussein. And I can

1173
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,800
tell you that no one gets in and out of

1174
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,880
Iraq at that level without the president

1175
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,640
knowing. And it's also true that a group

1176
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,720
affiliated with him, the Ansaral Islam,

1177
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,160
a fundamentalist group, thought that its

1178
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:32,240
main job was to kill the Kurdish

1179
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,680
leadership in northern Iraq, the elected

1180
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:35,760
leadership, which is a strange target, I

1181
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,960
think, for a holy war. And it's also

1182
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,559
true that some of them came to Iraq

1183
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,480
after we threw them out of Afghanistan.

1184
00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:42,079
Well, that's easy then. Leave them in

1185
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,280
control of Afghanistan. Don't mess

1186
00:53:42,079 --> 00:53:45,280
around with these people. Don't make

1187
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:48,319
them angry. Don't make them mean. It's

1188
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:52,400
your fault. Now, this is massochism. Uh,

1189
00:53:48,319 --> 00:53:52,400
but it's being offered to you by Sades.

1190
00:53:55,160 --> 00:54:02,160
Okay? And someone who hasn't answered my

1191
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,319
question, my challenge. I said in round

1192
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,800
terms when I opened that this is not

1193
00:54:04,319 --> 00:54:08,559
just a matter of which of us can be the

1194
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,640
rudest, because I already conceded that

1195
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:12,880
to Mr.

1196
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:15,160
or which of us can be the most cerebral

1197
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:17,440
because he's already conceded that to

1198
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:20,400
me. But I said that there's a further

1199
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:23,040
grudge between us which is this. I say

1200
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,960
that Mr. Galloway discussed the

1201
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:27,839
allocation of oil for food profits that

1202
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:30,000
stole directly from the Iraqi people and

1203
00:54:27,839 --> 00:54:31,839
that helped to corrupt the scheme and

1204
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,760
program of the United Nations. I say he

1205
00:54:31,839 --> 00:54:36,800
discussed that personally with Mr.

1206
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:38,640
Tarakaziz in Baghdad at least once. And

1207
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,599
if he will put his name to an affidavit

1208
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,960
that formally denies that, we can have

1209
00:54:41,599 --> 00:54:44,559
done with this business. But if he does

1210
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,400
not, it's going to haunt him on every

1211
00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:48,160
every stop of this tour and all the way

1212
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,760
back to England and everywhere he goes

1213
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,280
to raise the flag of jihad in the Middle

1214
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:55,880
East.

1215
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:55,880
This I promise you. I promise you.

1216
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:01,680
George Galloway, 5 minutes. You bring me

1217
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:04,079
the affidavit. I'll sign it now. It's a

1218
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,599
complete lie. It's a lie like the other

1219
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:07,440
lies on your leaflets that you are

1220
00:55:05,599 --> 00:55:11,440
handing out like an idiot on the street

1221
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:13,440
before this meeting. It's a lie. Buy my

1222
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:16,000
book. If you don't want to buy it, go to

1223
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:18,079
the website of respectcoalition.org and

1224
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:20,800
read it. I've already dealt with this.

1225
00:55:18,079 --> 00:55:23,680
It's a lie. Nobody ever discussed oil

1226
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:25,680
allocations with me. Not tariz, not

1227
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:27,680
anybody. I've already said it under

1228
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,760
oath. Never mind an affidavit. under

1229
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:33,040
oath on pain of imprisonment in front of

1230
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:35,839
the US Senate. That smoke screen will

1231
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:38,480
not wash. You want me to run through the

1232
00:55:35,839 --> 00:55:40,559
dictatorships you're supporting? Do you

1233
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:42,800
want me to run? Sure. Yeah. Yes. Why

1234
00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:45,359
not? Well, that is masochism. That

1235
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:47,040
really is massochism. You want me to run

1236
00:55:45,359 --> 00:55:48,720
through the dictatorship in Saudi

1237
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,240
Arabia? Yes. Get on with it. No. Do you

1238
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:52,559
want me to deal with the dictatorship in

1239
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:54,400
Saudi Arabia, the prison state? Do you

1240
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:57,359
want me to run through the family

1241
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:59,680
business more corlei than sainsbury's

1242
00:55:57,359 --> 00:56:02,240
that runs Kuwait? Do you want me to run

1243
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:04,640
through the dictatorship in Egypt? He

1244
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:07,200
has the goal to claim the election in

1245
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:10,000
Egypt as a fruit of the massacre of

1246
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:13,680
hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq.

1247
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:16,400
Hosnim Mubarak got more votes in the

1248
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:19,040
so-called free election last week than

1249
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:22,160
he got in the election he admitted he

1250
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:24,680
rigged six years previously. And you

1251
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:27,839
want to call that

1252
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:30,839
democracy. You talk about democracy in

1253
00:56:27,839 --> 00:56:30,839
Lebanon.