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Lord ahed distinguished Scholars

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brothers and

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sisters I'm not a member of the

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move uh I whil I respect Dr Kadri very

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much and Dean KH also I'm not a member

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of their mov

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but uh I have been involved with

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Pakistan and with pakistanis for most of

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my life since the uh 1970s in fact and I

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represent many people of Pakistani

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origin now in Parliament in Bradford

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West uh and I have never been more

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concerned for the whole future indeed

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existence of Pakistan then I am this

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very

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and that's before I saw your excellent

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presentation the news this morning from

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the shower could scarcely be more great

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and it is the major news item throughout

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the entire

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world uh more than 100 people have been

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slain there are many people now being

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held hostage by the terrorists and we

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must expect in the way of these things

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still still more casualties this is of a

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different order from anything that we

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have seen in Pakistan

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before uh and it represents a great

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challenge to the existence of the

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State uh I was leaing through Dr

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kadri's uh document here and I

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immediately found two points of

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agreement the first is his observation

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very poetically

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lamentably uh put that whilst in 1947

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the Muslims in the subcontinent were a

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nation looking for a state now Pakistan

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is a state looking for a nation I can

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think of no more succinct way of uh

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putting the current existential crisis

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in Pakistan uh than that and the

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second uh of his observations in this

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document with which which I Concur and

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have always concurred is that Pakistan

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is in need of revolutionary change the

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status quo of Tweedle D and Tweedle Dum

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exchanging uh seats criminalizing the

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previous occupants and so on cannot

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persist it cannot go on uh claiming to

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govern Andrew said correctly uh there's

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a uh need to tell the Pakistani

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government when they're wrong but in

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fact the RIT of the

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government uh in a normal sense uh does

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not actually run in many parts of

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Pakistan and the kind of horrific

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violence that you just showed us which I

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hadn't seen before Lord Nair had had

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been watching it he says every every day

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so it didn't come perhaps as the shock

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to him now that it does to me but to see

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Senior

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officers actually identifiable on the

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screen firing their guns through the

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window of Dr kadri's home to see women

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uh slain In Cold Blood uh is really very

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difficult to take and as you said sister

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that this is that was only one of the

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massacr uh who knows now what will occur

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in the wake of today's events so

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Pakistan needs uh revolutionary change

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one thing I'm sure

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of is that the current government of

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Pakistan is no longer in control of

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events and it should step down it should

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step down and new elections should be

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organized uh

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supervised or monitored if that's easier

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to take in terms of sovereignty

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issues uh at least by the OIC at least

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by uh credible uh observers because of

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one thing I'm sure noas Sharif is only

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the Prime Minister because of a rigged

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election moreover every election in

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Pakistan has been

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rigged and no one has any Faith or

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confidence in the State uh in organizing

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free and fair

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elections the Temptation will be in the

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wake of

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today uh for the military to intervene

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and take

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power uh indeed that question has been

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raised over the summer many times in

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regard to the sittings and the huge

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manifestations of millions of people I

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oppose that I have lived through uh as

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you have military government in Pakistan

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and Military government is no better

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than the government of the uh political

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parties in some respects it has been

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worse uh so we have to say go Naas go

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it's time for naal Sharif to step down

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he's no longer in meaningful control of

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events and in so far as as he is that's

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the result that we just uh watched there

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but it will not be enough just to

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exchange twe d uh with TW D so the

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10-point revolution which I'll study uh

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may very well be I might have more

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points in fact I can see immediately

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that I do uh have more points but uh

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however many points there are

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revolutionary change in Pakistan is

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vital I hope you forgive me uh my Lord

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uh as someone who I've uh traveled with

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and worked with uh for many years over

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these issues if I add one point which I

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think cannot be separated from today's

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events and I apologize in advance to

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Andrew if it means that we part company

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uh I believe that what happened today

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and indeed the the crisis throughout the

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Muslim world that was adamated uh by

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Sharif Hussein

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uh is intimately

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connected with a flawed Western policy

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towards the Muslim world for many many

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decades uh and it may be that I'm alone

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in this point the Frankenstein monster

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which was created in the

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1980s viav Afghanistan by America the

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United States Saudi Arabia and uh Sadat

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uh at the time in Egypt

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this monster is now completely out of

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control throughout the entire Muslim

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world the principle if it can be called

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that that my enemy's enemy is my friend

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is not just an entirely immoral

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principle it is utterly flawed and

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brings about the absolute opposite of

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the effect that you claim in the

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beginning that it will sometimes your

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enemy's enemy is worse than your enemy

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and

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the billions of dollars and the tons

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hundreds thousands of tons of weapons

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that were flooded into Afghanistan

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through Pakistan in the 1980s the

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deliberate fostering of this takfiri

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ideology that uh that you can in the

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name of religion cut any throat eat any

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heart murder any school child in the

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name of your particular narrow

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interpretation of your religion and the

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encouragement of that TF ideology is

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indeed as Sharif said uh

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now shedding blood in rivers oceans

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everyone from Syria to uh to Sy uh and

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now to

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nwfp uh

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and we simply

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can't view these events as the news

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people do certainly the British news

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people and Western news people do uh in

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a prism of hours days months this is a

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problem that for many decades has been

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deepening Saudi Arabia is at the heart

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of it this takfiri fanaticism is being

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funded by and ideologically buttressed

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by one of the UNF freest most wicked

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regimes on the Earth Earth namely the

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Royal dictatorship in Saudi Arabia and

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as long as we maintain the closest

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possible relations with that regime

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giving them weapons training selling

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them weapons taking their petol dollars

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uh uh in in as large a mountain as we

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can as long as we keep treating uh with

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this regime which is involved has its

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roots and fingers in every one of these

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PES then we will uh never solve this

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problem my last point my Lord I agree uh

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with the uh point that was made that

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terrorism has to be confronted of course

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it does but not only

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militarily uh because it cannot be

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defeated only militarily indeed if you

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only confronted

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militarily all the evidence that we have

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over the last decades is that you will

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spread it and deepen it and make it a

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bigger and bigger problem so we need to

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confront it militarily that's

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inescapable no doubt uh but we also need

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to confront the collapse of the state

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the collapse of the nation of Pakistan

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uh and resolve that problem if we're

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going to dry up the swamp in which this

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extremism is breeding I appreciate that

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there's not time to truly developed this

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uh argument and I thank you for your

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forbearance in the minutes that you have

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given me but I'm here not because I'm in

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this movement I'm not uh but because I'm

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Gravely concerned more than I have ever

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been in I've been through some dark days

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with Pakistan more than I have ever been

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the very

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existence of the country that we love

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called Pakistan wasam thank

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and