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that has to be a pretty powerful case

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for for

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intervening it's quite surreal actually

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listening to Neil at the news wall that

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this is a country that we're told is

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virtually bankrupt our country that we

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have to charge our children 9,000 a year

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to go to university that we're laying

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off hundreds of thousands of people in

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the public sector because we can't pay

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their bills we're told over and over

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again by the same government that is

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spending £40,000 a night on hotels

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hotels for Pilots £40,000 a night for

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hotels for Pilots to bomb someone else's

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country when our pensioners in the

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winter time are going shivering cold

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it's surreal but the argument as with

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the argument yesterday on vaccines is

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that still in the world Britain is a

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relatively rich country and shouldn't

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stand idly by feel relatively Rich if it

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can step in stop feel relatively Rich if

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you're one of the children paying the

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£99,000 a year in order to be taught at

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University or you're one of the people

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who's suffering the cuts or losing your

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job but that's not my only argument you

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have the logic is overwhelming you have

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made it clear already in the first five

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minutes of this show this is a stalemate

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an expensively produced stalemate and

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we're either going to have to pay vastly

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more to change that stalemate or huckle

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down for what the Admiral called a Siege

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and uh do the British people really want

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what I'm asking you is is the basic the

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basic point of of the military

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commitment at the time you've heard uh

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that you know had there not been an

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intervention there would have been a

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massacre in Tripoli a lot of people

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would have been killed I don't accept at

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all and neither does the government

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because there are massacres going on

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elsewhere in the same very very same

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region at which we don't lift a finger

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to intervene we're not going to invade

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or occupy or bomb Syria we had no

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intention of stopping Israel bombarding

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Gaza the Yemen thousands of people have

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been killed in the Yemen okay so why the

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difference for Libya the difference is

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because Libya is only a 5 million

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population yet up to now nearly 13,000

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have been killed over 50,000 have been

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injured hundreds and hundreds of cases

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of gang rape yet in Tunisia which is

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twice the population only 300 killed in

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Egypt which is 15 times the population

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of Libya only 400 killed Syria is six

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times the population of Libya only 1300

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killed I'm not condoning the killings in

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other countries even one life lost in

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Syria or Egypt or Tunisia is not

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acceptable but in Libya it's a totally

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different case this is a mad despot who

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is out of control intent on killing half

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of his population just to hold on to

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power the question is did we want to

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allow another Rwanda in North Africa or

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did we want to interfere as an

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international and legal and moral

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obligation to protect the whole

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population called the Lipan people that

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is really the question no but there are

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mad despots everywhere and Britain

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Britain is a I wouldn't mind I know you

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wouldn't mind but it's us that's being

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asked to bomb them it's us that's paying

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for the International Community it's 34

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countries Britain it's costing Britain

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38 million a week we are grateful for

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that but Britain is not paying for the

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whole campaign it's an international

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campign speak please let me speak this

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is my country and it's my Air Force it's

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my country as well it's my is it yeahia

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was your country yeah I'm a British

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citizen as well oh okay well we've

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cleared that up yes it's my country

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that's being asked to spend £38 million

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a week and I pay taxes

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billion by theut toomb what used to be

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your country

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whilst well make up your mind okay hang

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on stay on the substantive issue other

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desports are killing their people in

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large numbers we're not being asked to

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neither will we bomb and spend 38

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million a week bombing them so the

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question is why are we doing it for his

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former country stroke now country and

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the answer is obvious it's our oil

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interests that have fastened our

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attention on Libya not because Gaddafi

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was a desport when I was calling him a

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deso Adam Tony Blair was kissing him in

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a tent in the desert I was there but

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anyway but let's put that argum that

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this is in fact because uh the West NATO

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is interested in Libyan oil in the long

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run well this is a this is a very

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well-known cliche which George and

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others try to put across all the time

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yes Libya happens to be an oil country

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but that's not the reason the reason is

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because Gaddafi decided to kill as many

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as POS libyans as possible to hold on to

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power and if the International Community

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and Britain is playing part of that but

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is not wholly responsible in charge of

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the campaign if they did not intervene

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then we would have had a huge Massac you

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you said you believe 13,000 people have

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been killed how many of those have been

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killed by the rebels and by the NATO

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operation no no the rebels don't what

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you call Rebels the Freedom Fighters

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don't kill our own people these are the

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rebels don't have missiles

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they they must it hasn't all been one

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way has it I mean this is a war that's

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going on yes the Freedom Fighters have

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killed some of the people fighting on

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Gaddafi's side but these are soldiers

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and officers using multi rocket

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launchers and tanks and and and

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artillery obviously this is a war but

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killing civilians the only one who's

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doing that is Gaddafi and his security

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brid want to ask you both briefly a

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final question I know you're going to

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disagree George Galloway where is this

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going to end in your view and the

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partition of the country with the

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Gaddafi the dictators crew hanging on to

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the western part and the Stooges of

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international uh Imperial power

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governing in Benghazi this is going to

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end on Gaddafi and his sons being

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squeezed out by the Libyan people mainly

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with the help of the International

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Community can I finish please this is

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not the House of Commons please don't

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Hackle me George okay meckling you

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squeezed out by the before the end of

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the summer hopefully and then the Libyan

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people will craft a constitution and

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have a democratic government and get on

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with the business of rebuilding Libya

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which is much better Democratic with

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proper development and in good relations

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with the rest of the world the the

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totally the opposite of The Nightmare of

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the last 42 years in Libya under Gaddafi

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if that happened it'd be worth having

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wouldn't it yes if the libyans could

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have overthrown Gaddafi themselves

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nobody would be happier than me don't

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ask me to pay for it we will leave it on

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that note of agreement thank you both

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very much