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George G with some politicians they're
quite open about it their school days
were not that important to them they've
moved on and so on I get the impression
with you they were very important I mean
you in your one of your books you
acknowledge number of teachers as being
very important to you and you Nam them
yes important times for you very uh I
mean I do have my regrets that I didn't
uh um pay attention enough in school but
nonetheless school was very important to
me it was very important to me in
developing a vocabulary for example I
mean one of the things I'm known for is
slightly archaic sometimes uh but uh
interesting use of language and that
came directly from my English teacher Mr
Bennett that's the way he used to talk
and by interesting use of language well
you know I come up with words like
poping and vituperative and words that
are not often used and sometimes
journalists arch their eyebrows as if to
say what does that word mean and they're
often University educated in the way
that I'm not uh and I suppose I learned
from my English teacher the tremendous
Treasure Trove that the English language
is and because a word was more often
used 50 years ago or 100 years ago it's
not a reason for not using it now but it
started in my primary school really and
miss little John uh was my favorite
teacher of all and uh she encouraged
people to think to express themselves
and that was quite important for me
because I was quite
a rough and tough boy and the last thing
in the world I would have wanted to be
known as was what we used to call a SW
what uh or I think bofin was a word
later used for the same kind of boy um
and so here was the teacher encouraging
me who was more often than not found
running wild on the streets to uh to
write to Value writing to uh to express
yourself in writing that the pen was
mightier than the sword and uh that was
a lesson that she taught me that I never
were uh forgot you were one of those
who've gone onto this famous friends
reunited site and it's quite interesting
what you say you say uh you may have
seen some of the work I've been doing
over the years I'm Keen for reasons I'm
not altogether clear about to contact
friends or foes from the school yes a
couple of things from that why are you
not altogether clear you obviously think
about the past but you're not quite sure
why it fascinates you I think it's it's
partly about one's own uh Dawning ever
Dawning realization of One's Own
mortality isn't it that uh we're we're
closer to death now than we than we are
to our school days and uh and inevitably
one's mind drifts back to paths not
taken paths taken um and those that you
took them with or are parted from you
mention friends or foes did you make
quite a few enemies I kind of did yeah
um I was inordinately proud of being the
known as the best fighter in the school
which is not nothing at all worth being
proud of you know I had been a boxer uh
in my earlier days and I'm afraid I
boxed more out of the ring than I did
inside it and I don't you know I'm I'm
not entirely sure what that was about
that's what one of the things I mean
when I make that enigmatic comment um
because if I if I were to meet someone
now that I'd punched or or that
peculiarly Scottish form of assault
buted I'm not quite I'm not quite sure
what I'd uh what I'd say to them except
sorry yeah or what they might say to you
after all these years did you enjoy
being notorious at the
school some ways yeah I mean I was
Notorious amongst uh a class of teachers
um and I was
uh I I was involved in lots of rough and
tumble uh but I was quite popular at
school yeah did that uh Secondary School
you clearly had a lot of time for debate
of all kinds there did was it during
that period that you became uh politics
is partly about being a performer you
are well known as a speaker an orator
did you learn those skills you mentioned
earlier the writing skills and valuing
words did they teach you to become a per
performer no uh we didn't have uh
debating Society or anything like that
at our school I kind of wish we had if I
were running a school I'd certainly
encourage one yeah I didn't do drama uh
though I've been in many of drama uh
since um so no uh but I was born into a
very political household my parents were
one or the other would always be going
out in the evening to a Trade union
meeting or a labor party meeting uh they
were highly political people so um
politics was in my bloodstream from an
early age yeah and you joined the labor
party relatively early didn't you I
joined at 13 which was two years before
one was allowed to but I always looked
older than my age I was proud of that
then I'm not so now and I'm I'm going to
raised that that big brother performance
which was a performance of sorts wasn't
it I mean school's probably the closest
thing to that where you're in an
enclosed space with a group of people
not of your choice um yes did it help
you prepare for that when you were in
that house did that remind you you
obviously think about school a lot of uh
those days well I don't know uh my
leadership quality ities were more
valued at school than they were in the
Big Brother house so I was uh I was kind
of more popular at school than I was in
the Big Brother house but uh yeah you're
right I mean being being locked up with
big brother the Rector uh looking uh
down over the ballustrade at whatever
you were doing and how much facial hair
you were growing I mean I had I had an
extraordinary altercation with my
Headmaster whom I eventually grew to
love and respect Mr Hamilton
uh who who told me that I I mustn't
sport this mustache I was only 15 after
all he sounds more tyrannical than big
brother yes indeed that was the first
big brother I ever met Big Brother um
the school the secondary school you went
to was a selective school that became
basically comprehensive while you were
there yeah I was on the cusp of it
really I didn't sit an 11 plus but there
was an element of selection uh in my
year later it became entirely
comprehensive so it had the ethos of a
of a grammar school which it had been uh
I mean it was all dark wood paneling and
very exotic uh school uniforms which uh
in the foolish way that young minds
think were embarrassing uh I mean it was
a sort of red wine colored blazer with
fancy braid and I remember my father
saying to me you have to get a cap and
uh that was one of my first rebellions
there was no way I was going to wear a
cap um but it was you know the Blazer
marked us out so that when we went
through tough areas to and from school
and I I I lived in a tough area uh you
know people would throw stones at you
because you were a har a snob was what
the the the slogan of the time was so
you almost had to become a street
fighter to sort of defend you had to
show people that you you are no swab
snob take
that um it's interesting because some
people who had the same experience as
you of sort of a grammar school turning
into comprehensive emerg from that
convinced that it was the grammar school
that was fantastic and comprehensive as
a problem you became an advocate of the
comprehensive system very much so I mean
I if I had if I take my own example if I
had not been chosen to go to Harris I
would have gone to a school called
Loi and at that school
I'm sure nobody would have been
encouraging me to think about
Shakespeare or about the English
language nobody would have been
encouraging my writing skills nobody
would have been encouraging me to think
outside the box and more widely I would
have been being prepared for a job in
manual labor or at best uh in in uh in
as a Tradesman it would have been
entirely vocational almost it would have
been how to saw wood properly how to
measure it uh how to hit metal uh with a
hammer or burn it with a torch um I
think they would have not been right for
me and in that sense I would have been
deliberately been sent down a path which
wouldn't have been the right path for me
and all because somebody decided when I
was 11 that uh that's the direction I
should travel that I wasn't quote
unquote intelligent enough to go and
learn about Shakespeare and about
history and so on so I I I think that
selection at any time is unfair and
selection at such a tender age is is is
is is absurd and uh if that had happened
I'd been probably a joiner in the direct
works department in dundi now you you'd
never have heard of Me Maybe Mr Blair
wishes that's what happened wish you'd
gone to the other school um was it you
mentioned earlier was that your parents
that got you into politics and you
taught labor party Poli itics a lot and
you joined before you were meant to and
so but at school did you engage with
there wasn't a debate side she said but
labor Party politics with other kids you
obviously challenged some teachers what
what what was I did uh in fact I went on
my my very first
demonstration uh in second year at
school at the age of 14 the famous
iconic demonstration in London at groer
Square outside the US Embassy against
the American Invasion and occupation of
Vietnam and uh I kind of never looked
back from that I got the taste for Mass
politics for politics of action not just
talking uh politics of anti-imperialism
and of course in school I talked about
all these things there were other boys
who were on that demonstration from my
school and I talked to teachers about it
I talked to anyone I could now obviously
you uh got immersed in all these
different parts of your school life but
it wasn't all about politics and
challenging teachers and being inspired
by teachers I mean uh unusually I think
you you met your first wife at school I
did yes uh she was older than me um I
was uh 15 uh she was 17 um and that was
quite a young age to start uh going
steady as it were and we were together
for many years so that would be from the
uh very early' 70s until 1987 uh we were
together and I made lots of friends
there I mean one of the main memories I
have about school is laughing so much I
to laugh till my stomach hurt with
laughing I had such funny friends and we
we had our own language we had our own
sign language we we had a bond of uh
deep friendship it was a real band of uh
of Brothers um and uh I suppose these
are the brothers I was reaching out to
through the friends reunited uh uh
scheme and and do you think just School
uniquely produces those circumstances or
your one did or that you know life after
that could be pretty harsh and there
isn't as much time for such laughter
partly that's why it should be valued so
and should be treasured and should be
exploited to the to to the ultimate uh
these truly are the best days of your
life uh you'll make friends and you'll
have experiences and you'll learn things
if you use School properly that will be
of really
value really lasting value until the end
of your life in the acknowledgement to
the book one of your books which I
referred to earlier you don't only
mention teachers you mentioned school
friends as well and you acknowledged one
I think because someone who's opened
books yes to you and he's now an author
with penguin as I am it's remarkable two
of us from the same school he was uh in
uh either the year or two years above me
his name is Bill Duncan I noticed that
at school he was always he always had
books in his hand he always had books
under his arm
and this caught my attention because I
say I was a rough boy and you know if
I'd been going around with the books I'd
have been afraid of people thinking I
was a a
wimp and this boy wasn't a wimp he was a
strong uh Macho uh boy who was carrying
books and I got to uh talk to him about
those books books and uh he gave me
these books catam and I and and I read
them and uh wow had a real big uh
impression on me yeah okay with George
Calloway thank you very much indeed
thanks
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