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George G with some politicians they're

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quite open about it their school days

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were not that important to them they've

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moved on and so on I get the impression

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with you they were very important I mean

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you in your one of your books you

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acknowledge number of teachers as being

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very important to you and you Nam them

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yes important times for you very uh I

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mean I do have my regrets that I didn't

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uh um pay attention enough in school but

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nonetheless school was very important to

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me it was very important to me in

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developing a vocabulary for example I

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mean one of the things I'm known for is

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slightly archaic sometimes uh but uh

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interesting use of language and that

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came directly from my English teacher Mr

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Bennett that's the way he used to talk

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and by interesting use of language well

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you know I come up with words like

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poping and vituperative and words that

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are not often used and sometimes

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journalists arch their eyebrows as if to

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say what does that word mean and they're

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often University educated in the way

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that I'm not uh and I suppose I learned

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from my English teacher the tremendous

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Treasure Trove that the English language

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is and because a word was more often

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used 50 years ago or 100 years ago it's

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not a reason for not using it now but it

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started in my primary school really and

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miss little John uh was my favorite

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teacher of all and uh she encouraged

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people to think to express themselves

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and that was quite important for me

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because I was quite

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a rough and tough boy and the last thing

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in the world I would have wanted to be

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known as was what we used to call a SW

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what uh or I think bofin was a word

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later used for the same kind of boy um

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and so here was the teacher encouraging

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me who was more often than not found

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running wild on the streets to uh to

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write to Value writing to uh to express

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yourself in writing that the pen was

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mightier than the sword and uh that was

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a lesson that she taught me that I never

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were uh forgot you were one of those

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who've gone onto this famous friends

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reunited site and it's quite interesting

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what you say you say uh you may have

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seen some of the work I've been doing

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over the years I'm Keen for reasons I'm

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not altogether clear about to contact

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friends or foes from the school yes a

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couple of things from that why are you

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not altogether clear you obviously think

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about the past but you're not quite sure

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why it fascinates you I think it's it's

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partly about one's own uh Dawning ever

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Dawning realization of One's Own

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mortality isn't it that uh we're we're

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closer to death now than we than we are

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to our school days and uh and inevitably

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one's mind drifts back to paths not

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taken paths taken um and those that you

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took them with or are parted from you

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mention friends or foes did you make

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quite a few enemies I kind of did yeah

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um I was inordinately proud of being the

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known as the best fighter in the school

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which is not nothing at all worth being

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proud of you know I had been a boxer uh

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in my earlier days and I'm afraid I

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boxed more out of the ring than I did

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inside it and I don't you know I'm I'm

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not entirely sure what that was about

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that's what one of the things I mean

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when I make that enigmatic comment um

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because if I if I were to meet someone

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now that I'd punched or or that

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peculiarly Scottish form of assault

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buted I'm not quite I'm not quite sure

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what I'd uh what I'd say to them except

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sorry yeah or what they might say to you

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after all these years did you enjoy

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being notorious at the

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school some ways yeah I mean I was

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Notorious amongst uh a class of teachers

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um and I was

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uh I I was involved in lots of rough and

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tumble uh but I was quite popular at

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school yeah did that uh Secondary School

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you clearly had a lot of time for debate

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of all kinds there did was it during

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that period that you became uh politics

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is partly about being a performer you

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are well known as a speaker an orator

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did you learn those skills you mentioned

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earlier the writing skills and valuing

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words did they teach you to become a per

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performer no uh we didn't have uh

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debating Society or anything like that

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at our school I kind of wish we had if I

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were running a school I'd certainly

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encourage one yeah I didn't do drama uh

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though I've been in many of drama uh

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since um so no uh but I was born into a

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very political household my parents were

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one or the other would always be going

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out in the evening to a Trade union

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meeting or a labor party meeting uh they

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were highly political people so um

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politics was in my bloodstream from an

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early age yeah and you joined the labor

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party relatively early didn't you I

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joined at 13 which was two years before

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one was allowed to but I always looked

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older than my age I was proud of that

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then I'm not so now and I'm I'm going to

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raised that that big brother performance

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which was a performance of sorts wasn't

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it I mean school's probably the closest

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thing to that where you're in an

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enclosed space with a group of people

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not of your choice um yes did it help

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you prepare for that when you were in

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that house did that remind you you

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obviously think about school a lot of uh

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those days well I don't know uh my

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leadership quality ities were more

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valued at school than they were in the

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Big Brother house so I was uh I was kind

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of more popular at school than I was in

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the Big Brother house but uh yeah you're

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right I mean being being locked up with

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big brother the Rector uh looking uh

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down over the ballustrade at whatever

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you were doing and how much facial hair

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you were growing I mean I had I had an

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extraordinary altercation with my

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Headmaster whom I eventually grew to

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love and respect Mr Hamilton

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uh who who told me that I I mustn't

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sport this mustache I was only 15 after

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all he sounds more tyrannical than big

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brother yes indeed that was the first

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big brother I ever met Big Brother um

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the school the secondary school you went

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to was a selective school that became

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basically comprehensive while you were

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there yeah I was on the cusp of it

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really I didn't sit an 11 plus but there

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was an element of selection uh in my

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year later it became entirely

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comprehensive so it had the ethos of a

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of a grammar school which it had been uh

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I mean it was all dark wood paneling and

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very exotic uh school uniforms which uh

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in the foolish way that young minds

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think were embarrassing uh I mean it was

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a sort of red wine colored blazer with

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fancy braid and I remember my father

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saying to me you have to get a cap and

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uh that was one of my first rebellions

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there was no way I was going to wear a

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cap um but it was you know the Blazer

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marked us out so that when we went

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through tough areas to and from school

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and I I I lived in a tough area uh you

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know people would throw stones at you

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because you were a har a snob was what

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the the the slogan of the time was so

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you almost had to become a street

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fighter to sort of defend you had to

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show people that you you are no swab

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snob take

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that um it's interesting because some

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people who had the same experience as

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you of sort of a grammar school turning

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into comprehensive emerg from that

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convinced that it was the grammar school

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that was fantastic and comprehensive as

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a problem you became an advocate of the

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comprehensive system very much so I mean

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I if I had if I take my own example if I

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had not been chosen to go to Harris I

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would have gone to a school called

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Loi and at that school

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I'm sure nobody would have been

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encouraging me to think about

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Shakespeare or about the English

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language nobody would have been

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encouraging my writing skills nobody

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would have been encouraging me to think

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outside the box and more widely I would

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have been being prepared for a job in

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manual labor or at best uh in in uh in

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as a Tradesman it would have been

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entirely vocational almost it would have

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been how to saw wood properly how to

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measure it uh how to hit metal uh with a

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hammer or burn it with a torch um I

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think they would have not been right for

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me and in that sense I would have been

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deliberately been sent down a path which

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wouldn't have been the right path for me

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and all because somebody decided when I

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was 11 that uh that's the direction I

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should travel that I wasn't quote

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unquote intelligent enough to go and

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learn about Shakespeare and about

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history and so on so I I I think that

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selection at any time is unfair and

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selection at such a tender age is is is

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is is absurd and uh if that had happened

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I'd been probably a joiner in the direct

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works department in dundi now you you'd

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never have heard of Me Maybe Mr Blair

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wishes that's what happened wish you'd

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gone to the other school um was it you

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mentioned earlier was that your parents

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that got you into politics and you

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taught labor party Poli itics a lot and

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you joined before you were meant to and

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so but at school did you engage with

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there wasn't a debate side she said but

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labor Party politics with other kids you

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obviously challenged some teachers what

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what what was I did uh in fact I went on

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my my very first

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demonstration uh in second year at

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school at the age of 14 the famous

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iconic demonstration in London at groer

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Square outside the US Embassy against

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the American Invasion and occupation of

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Vietnam and uh I kind of never looked

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back from that I got the taste for Mass

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politics for politics of action not just

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talking uh politics of anti-imperialism

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and of course in school I talked about

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all these things there were other boys

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who were on that demonstration from my

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school and I talked to teachers about it

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I talked to anyone I could now obviously

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you uh got immersed in all these

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different parts of your school life but

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it wasn't all about politics and

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challenging teachers and being inspired

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by teachers I mean uh unusually I think

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you you met your first wife at school I

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did yes uh she was older than me um I

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was uh 15 uh she was 17 um and that was

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quite a young age to start uh going

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steady as it were and we were together

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for many years so that would be from the

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uh very early' 70s until 1987 uh we were

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together and I made lots of friends

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there I mean one of the main memories I

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have about school is laughing so much I

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to laugh till my stomach hurt with

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laughing I had such funny friends and we

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we had our own language we had our own

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sign language we we had a bond of uh

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deep friendship it was a real band of uh

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of Brothers um and uh I suppose these

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are the brothers I was reaching out to

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through the friends reunited uh uh

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scheme and and do you think just School

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uniquely produces those circumstances or

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your one did or that you know life after

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that could be pretty harsh and there

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isn't as much time for such laughter

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partly that's why it should be valued so

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and should be treasured and should be

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exploited to the to to the ultimate uh

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these truly are the best days of your

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life uh you'll make friends and you'll

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have experiences and you'll learn things

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if you use School properly that will be

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of really

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value really lasting value until the end

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of your life in the acknowledgement to

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the book one of your books which I

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referred to earlier you don't only

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mention teachers you mentioned school

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friends as well and you acknowledged one

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I think because someone who's opened

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books yes to you and he's now an author

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with penguin as I am it's remarkable two

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of us from the same school he was uh in

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uh either the year or two years above me

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his name is Bill Duncan I noticed that

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at school he was always he always had

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books in his hand he always had books

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under his arm

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and this caught my attention because I

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say I was a rough boy and you know if

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I'd been going around with the books I'd

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have been afraid of people thinking I

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was a a

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wimp and this boy wasn't a wimp he was a

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strong uh Macho uh boy who was carrying

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books and I got to uh talk to him about

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those books books and uh he gave me

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these books catam and I and and I read

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them and uh wow had a real big uh

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impression on me yeah okay with George

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Calloway thank you very much indeed

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thanks

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[Music]