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samira moussa

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is the recent u.s plane crash in libya a

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sign that western forces intervening

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there will only create another

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catastrophe that was iraq okay and i

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should say also we're completely live

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here on bbc3 tonight and here's the very

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latest line on libya the libyan air

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force no longer exists as a fighting

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force that is according to the commander

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of british aircraft operating over libya

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the libyan air force no longer exists as

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a fighting force let's go to uh

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george galloway first of all well these

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kind of hubistic uh boostings are almost

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uh guaranteed to

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uh backfire um if uh another american

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plane

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comes down

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we'll know that that's not quite as true

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as the military spokesman today

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said even worse after the american plane

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came down and the villagers near

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benghazi who came out to rescue the

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american pilots six of them were shot

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and once had his arm amputated by the

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american commandos

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who didn't understand their

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intentions

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which just goes to show the law of

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unintended consequences

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no military plan survives first contact

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with the enemy and this one won't either

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it's going nowhere it's costing us three

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million pounds a day on the day that the

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tory chancellor laid waste to hundreds

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of thousands of british jobs

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butchered more british public services

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it turns out we've got three million a

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day to spend throwing tomahawk cruise

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missiles a million dollars a time

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a north african country and richard said

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it's the first time we've been in

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military action since iraq

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that long huh

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but actually we've been in military

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action every day since iraq it's called

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afghanistan we're already

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uh

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a new uh theater of war but you

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mentioned the six people that were shot

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it is worth saying that the father of

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the boy who may have to have his leg

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amputated has said that he has forgiven

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the americans

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because

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better him than me i wouldn't forgive

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them with a shot my son's leg off would

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you nobody look it's an important point

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he wants them there

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he thinks they're doing an important job

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we think it's necessary he's probably

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not got much of a choice uh over that

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but his son's leg was shot off

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six other people were shot i'm just

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making the point

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that when you're throwing high

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explosives around the place don't

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pretend that there's anything forensic

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about it that there's anything targeted

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about it i've been in enough medical

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awards where the victims of surgical

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precision bombing have been taken per

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chance to die to know that all this

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propagandistic guff

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about military weaponry is just one of

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the big lies

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century

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we shouldn't be there at all not at all

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we are the colonial power that used to

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govern in these places well if you are

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the last people in the world who should

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be invading and uh

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and bombing other people it's an

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enormous international coalition

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well name names well well let me just

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say in a moment an audience and akin to

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come in and we will

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just be absolutely clear you would have

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left the people of benghazi to their

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fate the tanks were on the outskirts of

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benghazi gaddafi had said he would go

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house to house door to door and show

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these people no mercy and you would have

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left them to die don't give me that the

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same didn't give you that

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people that are bombing for human rights

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in libya are killing people in pakistan

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and afghanistan on a daily basis and

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you've just you just brought into your

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vast coalition saudi arabia the saudi

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arabian air force bombing for human

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rights when it's killing its own

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demonstrators and has just invaded

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bahrain to kill

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some people can be killed other people

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have to be saved i wonder what the

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difference is it's got three letters it

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begins with o it ends in l and the

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middle letter is i

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[Applause]

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so therefore

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the answer is yes you would have left

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the people of benghazi to their fate i

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wouldn't have armed qaddafi in the first

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place when i was saying

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when i was telling you

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when i was telling the bbc that gaddafi

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was the same criminal today as he was

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last year and 10 years before the bbc

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was singing off the same hymn sheet as

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tony blair and the labour government

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he's a different place

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he wouldn't have his tanks if we hadn't

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sold them to him he wouldn't have the

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training but give him special forces

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given that that happened you have to

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accept that happened and there we had an

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urgent situation where the tanks were on

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the outskirts of the town yeah

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1 600 palestinians were killed to death

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from the sky by israel and you never

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asked for a no-fly zone once and you

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never will ask for another

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hello there good evening yeah um i

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understand uh judge's points about the

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disparity in terms of foreign policy

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with uh uh

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mugabe israel saudi arabia but i'd like

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him to actually answer the question and

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what would you do what what what should

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be done should they should no forces

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have gone in or should forces have gone

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in from another country or some other

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country but what would have done

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arabs have a right to be there egypt has

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a right to be asked

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yeah i called on them uh to open their

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borders right at the start of this

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revolution i'm a supporter of the libyan

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revolution before david cameron

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supported it the difference is i'm a

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supporter of all the arab revolutions he

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definitely isn't

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good

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is less than two percent of the world's

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loyal suppliers she obviously doesn't

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know the price of oil if she can what

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to only to have any idea what the value

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of two percent

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is and it's not true to say that we

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would only send forces to help places

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that have oil because you just need to

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make it somewhere like sierra leone we

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made a huge difference before we get

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quick audience before we get started

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about the security council the most

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populous countries in the world

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did not vote for this resolution

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india china

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russia

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they gave it

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approval germany turkey china russia

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and india are all against them

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they have all been denouncing it in the

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days that followed because they did not

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believe that they were abstaining on

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something that involved the huddling of

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hundreds

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hundreds of cruise missiles a million

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dollars at times

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actually the russian president and uh

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prime minister actually are odds with

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each other so i haven't completely

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denounced it let's just go to the

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audience gentlemen in the middle there

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with the black hair hello

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how we as a country and nation have

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denounced to

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have encouraged these dictators and

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brought them up we have perhaps sold

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them weapons we have perhaps intervened

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in their countries in the past and yet

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in the same breath they say that we

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should not intervene simply because it

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is perhaps too expensive or perhaps we

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have no role in this surely we should be

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given the chance in fact we have the

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obligation to at least make to make

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right what we have made wrong

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we're still propping up the dictators

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saudi arabia is propped up by us or it

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would fall down now

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we've heard

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the arab league the arab league is a

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collection of dictatorships who are

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mostly involved in killing their own

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democracy

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you want us to say it's a good idea

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because the arab league's in favor of it

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i believe

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there's not a single democratic

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government in the entire arab league but

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look at it and half of them are killing

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the lord

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george across north africa and the

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middle east uh if

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the rest of the world uh hadn't if that

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coalition had not intervened in libya

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and qadhafi have been allowed to

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completely suppress and kill those

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rebels what message would that have sent

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to other dictators that's the main thing

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we are sending to all the other

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dictatorships you can kill your people

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if you like no we don't know yes we are

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what did we say against saudi arabia

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killing its own people what do we say

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about saudi arabia invading bahrain last

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friday in order to kill the people of

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bahrain nothing at all let's go to the

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audience let's go the audience right uh

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blue blazer what is the difference

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between the situation in libya uh and

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the situation that was in china in the

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tian men's square protest and so also

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the guangzhou democratization

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movement in korea in 1980 uh they both

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started off as a civilized movement

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which ended in uh bloody massacre or let

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me add another one

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in this country in northern ireland

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when british troops shot dead 14

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innocent

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protesters none of whom was carrying a

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weapon and we then covered it up for 40

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years and then finally almost half a

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century later david cameron apologized

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would we have support

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i'm sorry

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foreign troops intervening in northern

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ireland to protect

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bloody sunday but

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you were involved in that you were

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involved in books six tours i did in

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northern ireland to protect the people

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i lost soldiers in northern ireland yes

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bloody sunday was a mistake i entirely

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agree with it i sent look it was a guy

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speak it was a crime

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it took too long

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i knew at the time i was on the streets

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that it was a crime i accept that i

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really reject the comparisons between

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rwanda and balkans what happened in the

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balkans where the presence of genocidal

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maniacs gaddafi is many things but he's

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not a genocidal maniac

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what's happening in the arab world are

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revolutions not genocidal maniacs the

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people who took up arms have made the

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conscious choice to sacrifice their

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lives or put their lives at risk to

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observe dictatorships but if if when

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qaddafi said that he would go

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door-to-door house to house and show no

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mercy to the people of benghazi all

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right not technically a genocide but not

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that different to a genesis

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look you keep saying that as a matter of

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fact the voice of america that

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well-known gaddafi radio station

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has published the text of what gaddafi

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said and it was not what you're saying

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it was in any case it was hot air the

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libyan regime is a ramshackle

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disorganized shambles as

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my two new friends the experts from the

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middle east uh will uh be able to

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testify but

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it's a pretty deadly shambles

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yes indeed but the gaddafi had no means

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to go house to house and kill a million

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people and neither in fact according to

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the voice of america did he say so but

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the young man's made the point

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this is an armed uprising

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an armed uprising by the way that

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miraculously got its hand on airplanes

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and and tanks

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some revolutionaries i wonder where they

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got them from you'll say they rose up

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and they're contesting with gaddafi for

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state power in libya so i'm with them

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i'm i want gaddafi out

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whatever happens

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but it's not the same thing as being on

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the hills above sarajevo and raining

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down death and destruction it's an

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entirely

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innocent individual when you say it's

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hot air george gallagher you think

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he would have shown him mercy

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he doesn't have the means to conquer

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benghazi this war

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this war by the way in which we've seen

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surprisingly few pictures

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i wonder why

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is actually being fought between very

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small groups of people on each side

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let's not paint this

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as if this was uh the battle of kursk

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this is a ramshackle

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primitive society in which small groups

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of people are fighting each other for

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state power we're moving on george

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galloway thank you let's uh