he's not a member of the stop the war
Coalition he's the head of the British
army our presence there is exacerbating
this problem and we ought to get out
quickly let me read you the words of uh
the father of Alex green just died a few
days ago in Iraq serving with the dukee
of lancashire's regiment and he had a
2-year-old boy and his his father wrote
this he said we shouldn't pull the
troops out if we'd pulled out last week
of course my son would still be alive
but it's not the right thing to do cuz
if we go out who will go in as if as if
the British public is saying we know
there are going to be more deaths to
bring democracy in Iraq but we don't
want our boys dying send somebody else's
boys and if you say that he said you're
saying that my son died in vain well I'm
I'm sorry to say that he did die in vain
and he died on a pack of lies and I can
give you a large number of military
families bereaved parents just like that
one who are saying the complete opposite
who are saying that my son went to his
death on a lie for the vanity of Tony
Blair with respect isn't the question
about whether the War was sold on a line
irrelevant now because we've moved on
irq is in a terrible Place everybody
would agree with that the question is
how best to deal with that terrible
respect you say everyone would agree
with that but when people like me were
predicting it we were rubbished and
ridiculed and troduced by this very same
corporation that say every scoring now
well it's not a question of Point
scoring it's a question of having to
understand where we've been how we got
here here in order to know what we have
to do now the truth is there will be
many more such young soldiers mainly
American but uh unless we continue to be
very lucky including significant number
of British casualties who are dying for
nothing nothing's going to change in
Iraq as long as they are there now
that's not to say that everything in
Iraq will get better if the the
Coalition forces withdraw it's a
necessary but not sufficient ition that
they should withdraw in other words if
they don't withdraw nothing will ever
get better do you regret looking back at
what you've said over the last few years
do you regret some of your comments made
about the the presence of British troops
in Iraq and and the nature of the
Insurgency because you upset an awful
lot of people I'm the person that got it
right about Iraq I mean honestly that's
a perverse question um if you go back
through what I said you say it's
perverse I just want to quote to you
some of your own language during 2003
you described the US and British as
attacking Iraq like wolves who would
dispute it who would it's the nature of
the language the best thing British
troops can do is refuse to obey illegal
orders it is an obligation under
nurenberg to refuse illegal orders I'm
surprised you pray that one and8 against
well I just wonder whether you what
should they have done should they have
obeyed illegal orders my point obviously
it is a debate which you can have with
the with the Blair government about
whether those orders were illegal it's
not a debate you going to have with me
what I'm interested in is whether you
reget using the sort of language which
made it easy for your enemies your
political enemies and I'm thinking about
inside the labor party to Chuck you out
the party no uh it was unfair to the
noble wolf to compare him to Bush and
Blair these two men have caused the
deaths if you believe the Lancet the
Journal of the British Medical
Association and the Johns Hopkins
University of almost 34 of a million
people that's a very very big pool of
blood that's a very very big Mass grave
and if the accurate prediction that that
would turn out to be so is to be held
against one then that would compound
what I think is a real problem in this
country you see the only person in the
BBC who actually told the truth was
Andrew Gilligan and he got sacked the
man who backed him Greg Dyke the
director General stood by his man and
got sacked Gavin Davis stood by his DG
and got sacked uh uh Pi Morgan in the
mirror got sacked I got act the people
that uh were right about Iraq who stood
up and told people what they needed to
hear have been marginalized traduced
ridiculed I I I want you yeah I want you
to consider though in retrospect whether
you could have phrased things used
different language for example in GQ
magazine in May of last year you said a
suicide bomb attack on Mr Blair would be
morally justifiable logical explicable
and morally equivalent to The Ordering
of the deaths of thousands of Innocents
as Blair did in Iraq quite so uh if the
Iraqi uh man whose uh life had been
destroyed country occupied broken uh
ruined if his family was in Abu gra
these are all the uh the conditions in
this hypothetical you see but but it's
the language which we hear
from from
Al that's not fair it is the language
that we hear from because if if you were
being honest to your viewers you'd have
to tell them I was answering a question
from Pier Morgan who said if you were in
Iraqi whose country had been occupied
etc etc could you justify uh a suicide
bomb attack on the prime minister of
course as a hypothetical question no one
could dispute that it would be unfair to
leave the viewers with the impression I
came along the road and blurted out that
a suicide bomb attack on the Prime
Minister would be justified but of
course no such suicide bomb attack is
going to take place nor should it
because it would merely uh make every
matter worse however bomb attacks on
British soldiers much less well
protected than the Prime Minister whose
cars don't have armor on them unlike the
prime ministers whose equipment is not
sufficient to defend them are dying in
bomb attacks all the time to be clear
you are saying and sticking to this
point are you that Blair ordered
premeditated mass murder yes he's a mass
murderer he is responsible for Far More
Death deaths than the uh obscurantist
Savage Bin Laden he's responsible for
far more deaths than Saddam Hussein he's
responsible with Mr Bush for everything
that happened in Abu grab for everything
that happened on The Killing Fields of
Iraq and Beyond because against the law
illegally and on a pack of Lies he
launched aggressive War which nurmberg
described as the ultimate War crime so
would you shake Tony Blair's hand right
now not only as a a Prelude to shaking
him by the throat uh so if you think
that you've encountered someone here who
thinks this is all just a kind of normal
policy mistake you're wrong I believe I
hang on I just want to pursue this idea
about hand Mr Blair's a criminal Mr
Blair you've made that point a criminal
you've made that point very clear I just
want to compare and contrast with your
behavior and your attitude toward Saddam
Hussein you had a couple of meetings
with Saddam Hussein they lasted several
hours you shook his hand very happily
his presence you said sir I salute your
courage Your strength yourability well
actually quite a few of the things
you've just said there are wrong you
didn't shake his hand I didn't meet him
for several hours uh I met him once for
4 minutes and once for 90 minutes that's
not several hour well that adds up to 1
hour and 34 minutes but that's which is
not several hour more than an hour but
it's not s more than an hour and you
certainly I will deal with each of your
points I'll deal with each of your
points s atam just don't get them wrong
1 hour and 34 minutes is not several
hours secondly I did not salute his
courage strength and indefatigability I
saluted the Iraqi people's courage
strength and indefatigability which if
you saw the whole of the speech you
would know to be true I didn't read the
speech and I read that line it straight
you no you actually haven't nobody's
read the speech because it doesn't exist
in any written form I have read a long
passage reported to be the speech on the
which included this line sir I salute
your courage Your strength and your
indacil but if you had read the whole
speech you would know that the your Y in
question was the Iraqi people but
however that was 12 years and a million
dead people ago so let's come up to date
I am not responsible for Saddam Hussein