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alleged ties to saddam hussein the

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committee led by senator norm coleman of

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minnesota alleges that he received oil

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from the iraqi government for his

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opposition to u.n sanctions against iraq

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committees investigating allegations of

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corruption in the un's oil for food

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program

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here is tuesday's testimony by mr

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galloway it lasts about forty five

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minutes

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miss galloway i'm pleased to have you

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before the committee today what i'm

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going to do is is briefly summarize the

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evidence before i give you a chance to

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uh give your your sworn testimony

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uh the oil for food program was used to

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support those who are favorable to iraq

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former iraqi deputy prime minister tariq

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aziz and iraqi vice president tahaya sin

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ramadan confirmed this

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i would think that you would admit that

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your efforts to oppose the sanction were

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well received by the regime

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uh i know it's been quoted too many many

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times but your i would say infamous uh

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statement to uh saddam hussein on

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january 21st 1994

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uh where uh you said to uh

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saddam your excellency mr president i

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greet you in the name of many thousands

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of people in britain who stood against

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the tide and opposed the war on

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aggression against iraq continue to

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oppose the war by economic means which

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is aimed to strangle the light out of

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the great people life by the great

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people of iraq

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you then want to say he greets the name

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of the palestinian people he went on to

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note that i thought the president would

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appreciate knowing that even today three

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years after the war i still meet with

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families who are calling their newborn

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son saddam

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he went on

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ultimately at the very end to say sir i

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salute your courage your strength your

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indephatic ability and i want you to

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know that we are with you and i believe

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it was in arabic

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which means until victory until victory

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in jerusalem and i also would note that

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you have said that you deeply regret

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those comments and that the the comments

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were not aimed directly at saddam but

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they were aimed at the iraqi people

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uh in the fall of 1999 you headed a

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two-month london to baghdad bus trip to

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gain support for lifting the sanctions

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on iraq

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uh we have your name on iraqi documents

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some thread before the fall of saddam

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some after that identify you as one of

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the allocation holders that your

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allocations were then used by fawaz

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zurichcat operations on operating under

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the name of iridium petroleum and middle

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east advanced semiconductor to actually

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lift the oil

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we know too based on the statements of

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former iraqi officials as well as some

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documents and in the cases of vladimir

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jinovsky and alexander volshin

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correspondents and documents that

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allocation holders knew that surcharges

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or oil allocations were paid to saddam

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hussein and that allocation holders were

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aware of this and responsible for the

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payments

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we've also heard testimony regarding

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several documents retrieved from the

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iraqi oil oil ministry iraqi ministry of

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oil

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that demonstrate how iraqi uh iraq

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allocated oil to its friends and allies

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exhibit 13 which you've seen displayed

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in somewhat short that demonstrated

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vladimir janoski is dealing with

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meschino import in phase 11. that chart

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also lists contract m1104 with middle

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east advanced semiconductor

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footnote 93 her testimony regarding a

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sombo commercial invoice dated june 27

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2002 that shows middle east

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semiconductor loaded two million three

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hundred and sixty thousand eight hundred

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sixty barrels of iraqi crude oil

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pursuant to some crude oil sales

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contract m1104

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exhibit 12 we heard testimony regarding

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correspondence from the executive

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director of somo to the iraqi oil

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minister providing details of contract

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m1104 enlisting your name in parentheses

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next to middle east advanced

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semiconductor and fawaz zurich who we

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know lifted the oil against statements

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of detainees including former vice

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president ramadan

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uh confirmed that the name in

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parentheses your name is the allocation

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holder

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your testimony regarding contract m1104

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which was signed on december 12th to

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2001 between somo and fawaz zurich

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president of middle east advanced

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semiconductor

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your testimony regarding somo commercial

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invoice uh b 13 201 that shows iridium

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petroleum lifted 1 million 14 thousand

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four hundred three barrels of iraqi oil

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pursuant to some crude oil sales

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contract m 923

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exhibit 45 for a testimony regarding a

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somo chart entitled crude oil

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allocations during phase nine of the

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memorandum of understanding the

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medicaid's contract m-923 was executed

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between somo mr falwes zorokot slash

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george galloway slash iridium petroleum

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exhibit nine we also heard testimony

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regarding a memo from the executive

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director of somo to the oil minister

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requesting approval of contract m923

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the document includes an official

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ministry of oil stamp dated 115 201

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and provides details of the contract

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m923

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signed with iridium petroleum company

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parens for zurich dash miriam's appeal

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indicated that the allocation recipient

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for contract m923 was forward zurich

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miriam's appeal

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mr galloway has indicated my opening

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statement this is not a court of law

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this committee has simply made available

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information obtained during the

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investigation from interviews of former

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iraqi officials as well as iraqi

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documents that lay out how the oil for

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food program worked how allocations were

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given to favored friends allocation

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holders made substantial commissions on

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those allocations to oil companies what

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ramadan called compensation for support

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but another official when talking about

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another allocation holder said of course

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they made a profit that's the whole

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point

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how surcharges and oil contracts were

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given back to the saddam regime and with

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the responsibility of the allocation

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holder the evidence and clearly

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identifies you as an allocation

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beneficiary who transferred the

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allocations to fawaz zurich

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who became chairman of your organization

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miriam's appeal bill senior iraqi

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officials have confirmed that you in

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fact received oil allocations and that

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the documents that identify you as an

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allocation recipient are valid

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if you can help provide any evidence

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that challenges the veracity of these

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documents or the statements of former

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iraqi officials we'd welcome that input

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mr galloway you're appearing before the

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subcommittee without asserting any

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privilege or immunity indeed your

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appearance before the subcommittee is

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entirely voluntary and on your own

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accord no subpoena was issued to secure

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your appearance you're appearing before

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the subcommittee concerning matters that

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do not arise out of the performance of

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any of your official duties as a member

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of the british parliament but instead

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concern actions taken by you and your

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capacity as a private citizen

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before we begin pursuant to rule six all

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witnesses who testified before the

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subcommittee required to be sworn it's

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time to ask you to rise and please raise

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your right hand

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you swear the testimony you're about to

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give before the subcommittee is the

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truth the whole truth and nothing but

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the truth so help your god

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we will be using a timing system today

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uh mr galloway we have 10 minutes for

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opening statement if you need more time

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we'll certainly accommodate that and uh

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you may proceed

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senator

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i am not now

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nor have i ever been

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an oil trader

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and neither has anyone

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on my behalf

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i have never seen a ball of oil

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owned one

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bought one

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sold one

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and neither has anybody on my behalf

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now i know that standards have slipped

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over the last few years in washington

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but for a lawyer

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you're remarkably cavalier with any idea

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of justice

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i'm here today

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but last week

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you already found me guilty

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you introduced my name around the world

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without ever having asked me a single

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question

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without ever having contacted me

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without ever having written to me

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or telephoned me

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without any contact with me whatsoever

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and you call that

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justice

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now i want to deal with the

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pages that relate to me

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in this dossier

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and i want to point out areas

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where there are

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let's be charitable

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and say

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errors

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and then i want to put this in the

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context

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that i believe it ought to be

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on the very first page

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of your document

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about me

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you assert

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that i have had

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many meetings

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with saddam hussein

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this is false

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i have had two meetings with saddam

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hussein

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once in 1994

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and once in august of 2002

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by no stretch of the english language

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can that be described as many meetings

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with saddam hussein as a matter of fact

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i've met saddam hussein exactly the same

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number of times

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as donald rumsfeld met him

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the difference is

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donald rumsfeld met him to sell him guns

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and to give him maps the better to

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target those guns

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i met him

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to try and bring about an end to

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sanctions suffering and war and on the

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second of the two occasions

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i met him to try and persuade him

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to allow dr hans blix and the united

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nations weapons inspectors back into the

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country a rather better use of two

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meetings with saddam hussein than your

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own secretary of state for defense made

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of his

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in the same opening paragraph

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you assert that i was an outspoken

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supporter

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of the hussein regime

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this is false

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i have brought along here

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a dossier

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a dossier for all the members of your

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committee

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of statements by me as late

287
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as early rather as the 15th of march

288
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,560
1990

289
00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,920
in which i condemn the saddam hussein

290
00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:02,959
dictatorship

291
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:05,680
in them the saddam hussein dictatorship

292
00:10:02,959 --> 00:10:08,320
in the most withering terms

293
00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:10,080
a stance i have taken

294
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,440
since around about the time you were an

295
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:17,200
anti-vietnam war demonstrator

296
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:19,360
i was an opponent of saddam hussein when

297
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:22,399
british and american governments and

298
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,600
businessmen were selling him guns and

299
00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:26,160
gas

300
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,320
i used to demonstrate outside the iraqi

301
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,959
embassy when british and american

302
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:34,320
officials were going in and out doing

303
00:10:30,959 --> 00:10:36,160
commerce you will see from the official

304
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,079
parliamentary record

305
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:42,079
hansard

306
00:10:38,079 --> 00:10:43,360
from the 15th of march 1990 onwards

307
00:10:42,079 --> 00:10:44,560
voluminous

308
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,600
evidence

309
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:50,880
that i have a rather better record of

310
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,680
opposition to saddam hussein than you do

311
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:57,279
and then any member of the british or

312
00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:59,440
american governments do

313
00:10:57,279 --> 00:11:01,839
now you say in this document you quote a

314
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,040
source you have the goal to quote a

315
00:11:01,839 --> 00:11:05,200
source

316
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:08,240
without ever having asked me if the

317
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:13,680
allegation from the source was true

318
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:15,920
that i am quote the owner of a company

319
00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:18,160
which has made substantial profits from

320
00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,440
trading in iraqi oil

321
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,360
senator

322
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,040
i do not own

323
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,320
any companies

324
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,959
beyond

325
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,800
a small company whose entire purpose

326
00:11:26,959 --> 00:11:30,480
whose sole purpose

327
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,360
is to receive the income from my

328
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:36,399
journalistic earnings from my employer

329
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,800
associated newspapers in london

330
00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:41,760
i do not own a company

331
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:45,279
that's been trading in iraqi oil and you

332
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:48,320
had no business to carry a quotation

333
00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:51,040
utterly unsubstantiated and false

334
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:54,000
implying otherwise

335
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:56,720
now you have nothing on me senator

336
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,480
except my name on

337
00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,800
lists of names

338
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,519
from iraq many of which have been drawn

339
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,079
up

340
00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:06,079
after the installation of your puppet

341
00:12:04,079 --> 00:12:09,040
government in baghdad

342
00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:13,200
if you had any of the letters against me

343
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:15,680
that you had against zeranovsky and even

344
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,000
pasqua they would have been up there in

345
00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:19,839
your slideshow for the members of your

346
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,639
committee today

347
00:12:19,839 --> 00:12:26,959
you have my name on lists

348
00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:28,639
provided to you by the dhofar inquiry

349
00:12:26,959 --> 00:12:31,120
provided to him

350
00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:35,279
by the convicted bank robber and

351
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:37,279
fraudster and con man ahmed chalabi who

352
00:12:35,279 --> 00:12:39,839
many people to their credit in your

353
00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:42,160
country now realize played a decisive

354
00:12:39,839 --> 00:12:46,720
role in leading your country into the

355
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:49,680
disaster in iraq there were 270 names on

356
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:52,480
that list originally that's somehow been

357
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:55,760
filleted down to the names you chose

358
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:58,160
to deal with in this committee

359
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,839
some of the names on that committee

360
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,760
included

361
00:12:59,839 --> 00:13:04,800
the former secretary to his holiness

362
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:07,760
pope john paul ii

363
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,720
the former head of the african national

364
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:13,360
congress presidential office

365
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,519
and many others who had one defining

366
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:18,560
characteristic in common

367
00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:21,920
they all stood against the policy of

368
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:25,200
sanctions and war which you vociferously

369
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,959
prosecuted and which has led us to this

370
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:31,279
disaster

371
00:13:26,959 --> 00:13:33,279
you quote mr taha yasin ramadan

372
00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:36,800
well you have something on me

373
00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:40,000
i've never met mr taha yasin ramadan

374
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:42,639
your subcommittee apparently has

375
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:46,240
but i do know that he's your prisoner

376
00:13:42,639 --> 00:13:50,079
i believe he's in abu ghraib prison

377
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:52,000
i believe he's facing war crimes charges

378
00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:53,200
punishable by

379
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,040
death

380
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,480
in these circumstances knowing what the

381
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,720
world knows

382
00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:02,560
about how you treat prisoners

383
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:05,040
in abu ghraib prison in bagram air base

384
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:08,560
in guantanamo bay

385
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:11,440
including him i may say british citizens

386
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:14,320
being held in those places

387
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:17,360
i'm not sure how much credibility anyone

388
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:20,480
would put on anything you managed to get

389
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:24,000
from a prisoner in those circumstances

390
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:27,199
but you quote 13 words from taha you

391
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,639
seen ramadan whom i have never met

392
00:14:27,199 --> 00:14:32,560
if he said

393
00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:34,160
what he said then he is wrong

394
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,680
and if you had

395
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:40,880
any evidence that i had ever engaged in

396
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:43,279
any actual oil transaction if you had

397
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,560
any evidence that anybody ever gave me

398
00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:47,120
any money

399
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,120
it would be before the public and before

400
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:52,480
this commitment today because i agreed

401
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:54,800
with your mister greenblatt

402
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,079
your mr greenblatt was absolutely

403
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,399
correct

404
00:14:56,079 --> 00:14:59,440
what counts is not the names on the

405
00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:03,199
paper

406
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:05,839
what counts is where's the money senator

407
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:08,880
who paid me hundreds of thousands of

408
00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:12,000
dollars of money the answer to that is

409
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:14,399
nobody and if you had anybody who ever

410
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,880
paid me a penny you would have produced

411
00:15:14,399 --> 00:15:18,560
them here today

412
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,120
now you refer

413
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,120
at length

414
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,360
to a company

415
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:28,639
named in these documents

416
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:32,560
as a radio petroleum

417
00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:36,000
i say to you under oath here today

418
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:38,800
i have never heard of this company

419
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:42,399
i have never met anyone from this

420
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,920
company this company has never paid a

421
00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:46,000
penny to me

422
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,920
and i'll tell you something else

423
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:51,199
i can assure you

424
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:52,560
that a radio petroleum has never paid a

425
00:15:51,199 --> 00:15:55,120
single penny

426
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:57,120
to the mariam appeal campaign

427
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,240
not a thin

428
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,120
dime

429
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:04,000
i don't know who a radio petroleum are

430
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,759
but i dare say if you were to ask them

431
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:10,240
they would confirm that they have never

432
00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:12,639
met me or ever paid me a penny

433
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,600
whilst i'm on that subject who is the

434
00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:16,959
senior

435
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,160
former regime official that you spoke to

436
00:16:16,959 --> 00:16:21,120
yesterday

437
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:23,040
don't you think i have a right to know

438
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,279
don't you think the committee and the

439
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:28,240
public have a right to know

440
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:30,720
who this senior former regime official

441
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:35,639
you were quoting against me interviewed

442
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,639
yesterday actually is

443
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,800
now

444
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,320
one of the most serious of the mistakes

445
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,720
that you have made

446
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:47,600
in this

447
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,240
set of documents

448
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,880
is to be frank

449
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,399
such a schoolboy howler

450
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:58,079
as to make a fool

451
00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:59,680
of the efforts that you have made

452
00:16:58,079 --> 00:17:00,880
you assert

453
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,399
on page

454
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:05,919
19

455
00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:07,919
not once but twice

456
00:17:05,919 --> 00:17:11,120
that the documents

457
00:17:07,919 --> 00:17:11,120
that you're referring to

458
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:16,400
cover a different period in time

459
00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:19,039
from the documents

460
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,039
covered by the daily telegraph which

461
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:24,160
were the subject of

462
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:26,079
a libel action won by me in the high

463
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,079
court in england

464
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,360
late last year

465
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:31,840
you state

466
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:33,039
that the daily telegraph article cited

467
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:37,039
documents

468
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:38,640
from 1992 and 1993

469
00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:41,280
whilst you

470
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:44,280
are dealing with documents dating from

471
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,280
2001.

472
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:51,600
senator the daily telegraphs documents

473
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:55,600
date identically to the documents that

474
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:58,080
you are dealing with in your report here

475
00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:02,600
none of the daily telegraphs documents

476
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,600
dealt with a period of 1992-1993

477
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,440
i had never set foot in iraq

478
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:11,360
until

479
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:13,919
late in 1993. never in my life

480
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:17,640
there could possibly be no documents

481
00:18:13,919 --> 00:18:21,039
relating to oil for food matters in

482
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:24,000
1992-93 for the oil for food scheme did

483
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:25,120
not exist at that time

484
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,640
and yet

485
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:31,120
you've allocated a full section of this

486
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,440
document to claiming that your documents

487
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:35,360
are from a different era

488
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,760
to the daily telegraph documents when

489
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:39,840
the opposite is true

490
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,960
your documents and the daily telegraph

491
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,760
documents

492
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:46,320
deal with exactly the same period

493
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,480
but perhaps you were confusing the daily

494
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:51,679
telegraph action

495
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,760
with the christian science monitor

496
00:18:51,679 --> 00:18:55,280
the christian science monitor did indeed

497
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,120
publish

498
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,760
on its front pages

499
00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:02,559
a set of allegations against me very

500
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,320
similar to the ones that your committee

501
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:07,120
have made

502
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:10,039
they did indeed rely on documents which

503
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:11,760
started in 1992

504
00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:13,919
1993

505
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,720
these documents were unmasked by the

506
00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:17,520
christian science monitor themselves

507
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,280
as

508
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,720
forgeries

509
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,919
now

510
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,640
the neocon websites and newspapers in

511
00:19:23,919 --> 00:19:29,039
which you're such a hero senator

512
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,720
were all absolutely cock-a-hoop at the

513
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:32,799
publication of the christian science

514
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,480
monitor documents they were all

515
00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:36,000
absolutely convinced of their

516
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,160
authenticity

517
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,200
they were all absolutely convinced that

518
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:44,080
these documents showed me receiving 10

519
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:47,440
million dollars from the saddam hussein

520
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:50,400
regime and they were all lies

521
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:52,880
in the same week as the daily telegraph

522
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:55,200
published their documents against me the

523
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:58,640
christian science monitor published

524
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,799
theirs which turned out to be forgeries

525
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,520
which turned out to be forgeries

526
00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:06,320
and the british newspaper mail on sunday

527
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:09,039
purchased a third set of documents which

528
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:11,039
also on forensic examination turned out

529
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:13,280
to be forgeries so there's nothing

530
00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:14,640
fanciful about this

531
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,480
nothing at all

532
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,840
fanciful about it

533
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:22,480
the existence of forged documents

534
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,400
implicating me in commercial activities

535
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,799
with the iraqi regime

536
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,840
is a proven fact it's a proven fact that

537
00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:32,000
these forged documents existed and were

538
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,360
being circulated amongst right-wing

539
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,400
newspapers

540
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,480
in baghdad

541
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,880
and around the world in the immediate

542
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,960
aftermath of the fall of the iraqi

543
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,039
regime now senator

544
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,039
i gave my heart and soul

545
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:47,520
to oppose the policy

546
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:51,039
that you promoted

547
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,159
i gave my political life's blood

548
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:54,080
to

549
00:20:52,159 --> 00:20:56,720
try to stop

550
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,320
the mass killing of iraqis

551
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,520
by the sanctions

552
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,320
on iraq

553
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:04,320
which killed a million iraqis most of

554
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,640
them children

555
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,640
most of them died before they even knew

556
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,960
that they were iraqis

557
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,679
but they died for no other reason other

558
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:17,440
than that they were iraqis with the

559
00:21:13,679 --> 00:21:20,159
misfortune to be born at that time

560
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,159
i gave my heart and soul to stop you

561
00:21:20,159 --> 00:21:23,760
committing the disaster

562
00:21:22,159 --> 00:21:26,080
that you did commit

563
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,840
in invading iraq

564
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,360
and i told the world

565
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,559
that your case

566
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,880
for the war

567
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:35,840
was a pack of lies

568
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:38,720
i told the world that iraq contrary to

569
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,919
your claims did not have weapons of mass

570
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,520
destruction

571
00:21:39,919 --> 00:21:44,400
i told the world

572
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,640
contrary to your claims that iraq had no

573
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,679
connection to al-qaeda

574
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,520
i told the world contrary to your claims

575
00:21:49,679 --> 00:21:53,799
that iraq had no connection to the

576
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:57,520
atrocity on 9 11

577
00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:58,640
2001. i told the world contrary to your

578
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,520
claims

579
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,840
that the iraqi people would resist a

580
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,480
british and american invasion of their

581
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,480
country and that the fall of baghdad

582
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,200
would not be the beginning of the end

583
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:15,039
but merely the end of the beginning

584
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:17,679
senator in everything i said about iraq

585
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:20,159
i turned out to be right and you turned

586
00:22:17,679 --> 00:22:22,159
out to be wrong and a hundred thousand

587
00:22:20,159 --> 00:22:24,159
people have paid with their lives

588
00:22:22,159 --> 00:22:27,600
sixteen hundred of them american

589
00:22:24,159 --> 00:22:28,799
soldiers sent to their deaths on a pack

590
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,200
of lies

591
00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:34,960
fifteen thousand of them wounded many of

592
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:38,159
them disabled forever on a pack of lies

593
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:40,400
if the world had listened to kofi annan

594
00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:42,640
whose dismissal you demanded

595
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,280
if the world had listened to president

596
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:48,080
shirak who you want to paint as some

597
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:50,720
kind of corrupt traitor if the world had

598
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,880
listened to me and the anti-war movement

599
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,440
in britain we would not be in the

600
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:58,480
disaster that we're in today

601
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,840
senator this is the mother of all smoke

602
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,200
screens

603
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:05,600
you are trying to divert attention

604
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,760
from the crimes that you supported

605
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,080
from the theft of billions of dollars of

606
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:12,720
iraq's wealth

607
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:16,000
have a look at the real oil for food

608
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:18,480
scandal have a look at the 14 months you

609
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,360
were in charge of baghdad the first 14

610
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,559
months

611
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:25,600
when 8.8 billion dollars of iraq's

612
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:27,520
wealth went missing on your watch

613
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,080
have a look at halliburton and the other

614
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,400
american corporations that stole not

615
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,240
only iraq's money but the money of the

616
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,159
american taxpayer

617
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,600
have a look at the oil that you didn't

618
00:23:36,159 --> 00:23:38,880
even meter

619
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,120
that you were shipping out of the

620
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,919
country and selling the proceeds of

621
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:46,640
which went who knows where have a look

622
00:23:43,919 --> 00:23:49,200
at the 800 million dollars you gave to

623
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,520
american military commanders to hand out

624
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,440
around the country without even counting

625
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,840
it or weighing it

626
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,080
have a look at the real scandal breaking

627
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,159
in the newspapers today

628
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,640
revealed in the earlier testimony in

629
00:24:00,159 --> 00:24:04,400
this committee that the biggest

630
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,480
sanctions busters

631
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,880
were not me

632
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:12,400
or russian politicians or french

633
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:14,240
politicians the real sanctions busters

634
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:18,640
were your own companies with the

635
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:21,039
connivance of your own government

636
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,039
thank you mr galloway mr gallery can we

637
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:24,799
start by talking about uh farwo's

638
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:27,200
azarika

639
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:28,799
do you know the individual i know

640
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,080
in fact you were best man at his wedding

641
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:31,600
i was

642
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,200
and at some point in time he became

643
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,960
chair of miriam's appeal is that correct

644
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,240
he did yeah and can you tell me when

645
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,679
that occurred

646
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:41,600
i think in late 2000 or early 2001

647
00:24:39,679 --> 00:24:43,760
uh

648
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,000
before mr zurich was chair of miriam's

649
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,840
pill who who had that position i was the

650
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,080
founding chairman was there somebody in

651
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:54,080
between you and mr halford and you

652
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,080
recall when he had that position i don't

653
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,480
uh mr uh

654
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,559
zaragod was a significant contributor to

655
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,880
miriam's appeal is that correct he was

656
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:05,360
the second biggest contributor the main

657
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,120
contributor was sheikh zayed the ruler

658
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:08,960
of the united arab emirates which you've

659
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:10,720
glossed over in your report because it's

660
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,120
slightly embarrassing to you

661
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,200
and the third major contributor was the

662
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,880
crown prince of saudi arabia which

663
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,640
you've equally glossed over because it's

664
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,279
embarrassing to you and how much both of

665
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,960
those individuals are your friends how

666
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:25,919
much did mr zaraki contribute to

667
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,200
miriam's appeal roughly 375 000 english

668
00:25:25,919 --> 00:25:28,720
pounds at about

669
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,159
thousand dollars america well i don't

670
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,520
know the conversion but it's three

671
00:25:30,159 --> 00:25:34,400
hundred and seventy five thousand

672
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:36,080
sterling uh if you can uh

673
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,320
and he was by the way mr mr eric it was

674
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,120
your representative

675
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,480
uh

676
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,679
designated representative for the

677
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,880
activity of miriam's appeal is that

678
00:25:41,679 --> 00:25:45,120
correct for the activities of the

679
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,960
marijuana and when did he uh get that

680
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:49,760
position

681
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,880
i think late 2000 late 2000

682
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,520
uh

683
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,200
looking at uh exhibit

684
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,480
uh nine

685
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,679
exhibit nine

686
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,840
and i think you have the books in front

687
00:25:57,679 --> 00:25:59,840
of you

688
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:05,840
yeah uh that appears to be a document

689
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,679
for the ministry of oil

690
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,200
testimony has indicated that the

691
00:26:07,679 --> 00:26:10,159
signature is an accurate signature do

692
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,640
you have any reason to believe that

693
00:26:10,159 --> 00:26:14,880
document's false well i've told you that

694
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,559
i have never heard of a radio petroleum

695
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,640
and i've told you that the mariam appeal

696
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:22,080
never received a single penny from a

697
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,279
radio petroleum so the information at

698
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,080
the top of the page if you have

699
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:28,080
translated it accurately is false have

700
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,720
you heard of middle east uh middle east

701
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,760
asi company yes that's mr zurich company

702
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,559
can i

703
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,559
turn to exhibit 12.

704
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,320
12 or 11 12.

705
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,760
yep

706
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:48,000
and that reports to be a uh again a uh

707
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,360
stamp the seal of the ministry of oil

708
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,480
people of iraq

709
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:54,240
and this uh affords to be a uh shown the

710
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,720
details of a contract signed with middle

711
00:26:54,240 --> 00:27:00,480
east asi company so george galloway and

712
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:03,200
uh for for zarquette so middle east asi

713
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,360
is mrs erica's company middle east asi

714
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,120
is mr zurich company he may well have

715
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:10,159
signed an oil contract it had nothing to

716
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:12,720
do with me uh did you he was uh chair of

717
00:27:10,159 --> 00:27:13,440
miriam's appeal and in 2000 so i take it

718
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,520
you

719
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,960
knew him well uh did he ever talk to you

720
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,679
about his uh

721
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:22,320
dealings and uh in oil with iraq he did

722
00:27:19,679 --> 00:27:24,159
better than that he talked to everybody

723
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,840
he talked to every english journalist

724
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:29,120
that came through baghdad who he helped

725
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,120
our request

726
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:33,600
to get the interviews and get the places

727
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:35,840
that they wanted and needed to go

728
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,720
he was introduced to everyone as a major

729
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,960
benefactor of the mariam appeal and

730
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,960
as a businessman doing extensive

731
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,880
business in iraq and elsewhere in the

732
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,679
middle east i'm asking you specifically

733
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,080
uh

734
00:27:45,679 --> 00:27:50,240
in 2001 did you were you aware that he

735
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,760
was doing oil deals with iraq i was

736
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,600
aware that he was doing extensive

737
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,919
business with iraq i did not know the

738
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,520
details of it it was not my business

739
00:27:55,919 --> 00:27:59,039
so this is somebody who's a chairman of

740
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,679
your committee that you know well and

741
00:27:59,039 --> 00:28:03,200
you you're not able to say that he was

742
00:28:01,679 --> 00:28:04,880
well there's a lot of contributors i've

743
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,039
just been checking to your uh there's

744
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,240
not not many at that level mr gallagher

745
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:09,600
no let me just

746
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,840
i've checked your website but there are

747
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,840
lots of contributors to your political

748
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,120
campaign funds i don't suppose you ask

749
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,559
any of them how they made the money they

750
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,080
give you certainly not at six hundred

751
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:19,600
thousand dollars american but let me

752
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,679
again ask because i just the record is

753
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,679
clear i need to be clear on the record

754
00:28:21,679 --> 00:28:26,559
that that uh you're not

755
00:28:23,679 --> 00:28:29,440
contesting then the validity of document

756
00:28:26,559 --> 00:28:31,760
12 exhibit 12. you're indicating that mr

757
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,000
uh zarquette could have had dealings

758
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,320
with iraq but you're saying that at that

759
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,840
point in time you were not aware

760
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,799
that he had oil dealings with first of

761
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,799
all i've only seen this document today

762
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:45,039
and i'm telling you

763
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:46,320
that insofar as my name is in a

764
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:48,720
parenthesis

765
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,559
the information in it is false i have no

766
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,120
reason to believe mr zurich's company

767
00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:54,480
did not do that particular oil deal but

768
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,200
this is your problem in this whole

769
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,919
affair there is nobody arguing that mr

770
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,240
zurich company did not do oil

771
00:28:59,919 --> 00:29:05,360
transactions and many other much bigger

772
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,840
frankly business contracts with iraq

773
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,919
there's nobody contesting that mr zurich

774
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,399
made substantial donations to our

775
00:29:09,919 --> 00:29:15,600
campaign against sanctions and war my

776
00:29:12,399 --> 00:29:18,640
point is you have accused me personally

777
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:22,320
of enriching myself of taking money from

778
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:24,480
iraq and that is false and unjust mr

779
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,360
galloway do you recall an interview we

780
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,279
had with the jeremy paxman in april 23rd

781
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,880
2003.

782
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:31,760
do we have a copy of the transcript of

783
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,760
that

784
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,679
i'd like to refresh your memory

785
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,360
let me get a copy of that

786
00:29:35,679 --> 00:29:38,799
as we get you a copy i'm going to ask

787
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,279
you were asked the question talking

788
00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:42,720
about business dealings with mr zarakott

789
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,320
in iraq and at least the transcript that

790
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,760
i have and i'd like you to let me know

791
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,720
if it's incorrect

792
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,720
uh your quote is i've asked him about

793
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,440
business and iraq and quote well i'm

794
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:57,360
trying to reach him this is in well i'm

795
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:59,200
trying to reach him this is in 2003.

796
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,960
i'm trying to reach him to ask him if

797
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,399
he's ever been involved in oil deals

798
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:06,720
because i don't know the answer to that

799
00:30:04,399 --> 00:30:08,320
so in 2003 you're saying you don't know

800
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,799
the answer whether he's involved in oil

801
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,440
deals well i told you in my previous two

802
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:15,679
answers i knew that mr zurich was

803
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,600
heavily involved in business in iraq and

804
00:30:15,679 --> 00:30:20,399
elsewhere but that it was none of my

805
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:22,880
business what particular transactions or

806
00:30:20,399 --> 00:30:25,200
business he was involved in any more

807
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,880
than you ask the american israel public

808
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,440
affairs committee when they donate money

809
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,279
to you or pay for your trips to israel

810
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,799
where they got the money from

811
00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:34,159
so mr galloway you would have this

812
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:36,640
committee believe that you designated

813
00:30:34,159 --> 00:30:38,880
representative miriam's appeal becomes

814
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,520
the chair of the miriam's appeal who's

815
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,240
listed in iraqi documents is obviously

816
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,480
doing

817
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,919
business oil deals with iraq that you

818
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,840
never had a conversation with him in

819
00:30:45,919 --> 00:30:49,600
2001 or whether he was ever doing oil

820
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,520
business with iraq no i'm doing better

821
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,440
than that i'm telling you that i knew

822
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,399
that he was doing a vast amount of

823
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,799
business with iraq much bigger as i said

824
00:30:56,399 --> 00:31:00,240
a couple of answers ago than any oil

825
00:30:58,799 --> 00:31:02,799
business he did

826
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,880
in the airport he was the representative

827
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:07,600
of some of the world's biggest companies

828
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,919
in iraq he was an extremely wealthy

829
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,240
businessman doing very extensive

830
00:31:09,919 --> 00:31:15,120
business in iraq not only did i know

831
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,279
that but i told everyone about it i

832
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,520
emblazoned it in our literature on our

833
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:21,360
website precisely so that people like

834
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,240
you could not later

835
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,480
credibly question my bona fide is in

836
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,240
that regard so i did better than that i

837
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,320
never asked him if he was trading in oil

838
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,799
i knew he was a big trader with iraq and

839
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,720
i told everybody about it so in 2003

840
00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:36,080
when you said you didn't know whether he

841
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,159
was doing oil deals we were telling the

842
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,799
truth at that time yes i was i've never

843
00:31:38,159 --> 00:31:41,919
known until the uh telegraph story

844
00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:44,240
appeared

845
00:31:41,919 --> 00:31:46,640
that he was alleged to be doing oil

846
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,519
deals but his oil deals are about one

847
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,840
tenth

848
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:51,919
of the business that he did in iraq so i

849
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,000
did better than telling people about his

850
00:31:51,919 --> 00:31:55,440
oil deals i told him he was doing much

851
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,240
much more than that

852
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,000
so exhibit 14

853
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,799
which reports to be a contract with

854
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:06,080
middle east semiconductor

855
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:07,760
contract m1214

856
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,480
middle east semiconductor again is mr

857
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,519
zarquette's company is that correct

858
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,640
this is

859
00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:14,720
so uh

860
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,360
do you have any reason any reason to

861
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:20,000
believe that this document is is false

862
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,760
well the parenthesis

863
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,320
if the parenthesis implies as you've

864
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,640
been arguing all morning that it implies

865
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,039
that this was being signed for by middle

866
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:32,159
east advanced semiconductors in order to

867
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:34,720
pass the money on to me is false

868
00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:36,480
mr zurich and middle east semiconductors

869
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,799
or any other company have never given me

870
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,799
any money and if they had you would have

871
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:43,840
up here on a board and in front of the

872
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:43,840
committee here

873
00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:56,000
i take it mr uh galloway that

874
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,880
in regard to any surcharges paid to

875
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,200
saddam and i think it's footnote 89

876
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,159
which refers to the the surcharge for

877
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,440
the

878
00:33:02,159 --> 00:33:05,440
contract

879
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,360
uh focused on miriam's appeal you're

880
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:10,720
saying that that document first of all

881
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:13,360
any any uh contract between iraq and

882
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,799
variance appeals is uh false well

883
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,720
senator i'd gotten used to the

884
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:20,559
allegation that i was taking money from

885
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,679
saddam hussein it's it's it's actually

886
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:23,200
surreal

887
00:33:21,679 --> 00:33:25,120
to hear in this room this morning that

888
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,640
i'm being accused of giving money to

889
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,840
saddam hussein

890
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:33,519
this is utterly preposterous utterly

891
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:35,679
preposterous that i gave 300 000 to

892
00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:39,039
saddam hussein this is

893
00:33:35,679 --> 00:33:41,760
beyond the realms of the ridiculous now

894
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:44,000
the mariam appeals finances have been

895
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,320
investigated by the charity commission

896
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,640
on the order of lord goldsmith you'll

897
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,600
recall him senator he's the attorney

898
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,120
general

899
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,360
practically the only law man in the

900
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,600
world that thought your war with iraq

901
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,919
was legal thought britain joining your

902
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,519
war with iraq was legal he ordered the

903
00:33:57,919 --> 00:34:01,919
charity commission to investigate the

904
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:02,880
mariam appeal using their statutory

905
00:34:01,919 --> 00:34:06,399
powers

906
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:09,919
they recovered all money in and all

907
00:34:06,399 --> 00:34:12,720
money out ever received or spent by the

908
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:15,040
mariam appeal they found no impropriety

909
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:17,440
and i can assure you they found no money

910
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:20,879
from an oil contract from a radio

911
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:23,040
petroleum none whatsoever

912
00:34:20,879 --> 00:34:25,760
and the uh the commission uh did not

913
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,359
look at at uh these documents relating

914
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,119
to this contract with iraq but they

915
00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:32,800
looked better than that senator i'm not

916
00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:32,800
asking you better asking the question

917
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:36,240
senator you're not listening to what i'm

918
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,639
saying they did better than that they

919
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:40,079
looked to every penny in and every penny

920
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:43,040
out

921
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:44,560
and they did not find i can assure you

922
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,639
any trace

923
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,359
of a donation from a company called a

924
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:51,839
radio petroleum or frankly a donation

925
00:34:49,359 --> 00:34:53,040
from any company other than mr zurich

926
00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:56,359
company

927
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,359
that's a fact

928
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:14,079
if i can get back to mr zurich one more

929
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,440
time

930
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:16,960
do you recall a time when he

931
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,880
specifically when you speak out a

932
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,400
conversation with him about oil dealings

933
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,760
in iraq

934
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,440
i've already answered that question

935
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,520
i can assure you

936
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,480
mr zurich

937
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,040
never

938
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,119
gave me a penny

939
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,440
from an oil deal

940
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:37,119
from a cake deal

941
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,119
from a bread deal

942
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:42,880
or from any deal

943
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:46,000
he donated money to our campaign which

944
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:48,800
we publicly brandished on all of our

945
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,160
literature along with the other donors

946
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,560
to the campaign

947
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:55,280
again mr galloway a simple question i'm

948
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,960
looking for either a yes or no do you

949
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,320
ever have conversation with this erica

950
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,480
where he informed you that he had oil

951
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,400
dealings with iraq yes or no

952
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,079
not before this uh daily telegraph

953
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,280
report now

954
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:07,839
senator levin

955
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:10,160
thank you thank you mr galloway

956
00:36:07,839 --> 00:36:10,160
um

957
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,320
mr gallic

958
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:17,119
could you take a look at the exhibit

959
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,119
number 12.

960
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,880
yep

961
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,160
where your name is in parenthesis after

962
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,160
mr zurich

963
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,440
before mr zurich

964
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,280
if i'm looking at the right i'm sure i

965
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,480
was going to finish my sent my question

966
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,000
though uh

967
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,400
my question was where your name is in

968
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:41,839
parenthesis after mr zurich companies i

969
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,839
apologize senator that's all right

970
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,400
now that

971
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:48,400
document assuming it's a accurate

972
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,680
translation of the document

973
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,920
underneath it

974
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,839
um

975
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,920
would you say you're not alleging here

976
00:36:53,839 --> 00:36:58,000
today that the document is a forgery i

977
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,520
gather well i have no idea senator if

978
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,200
that's a forgery or not but you're not

979
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,160
allowed i'm saying that the information

980
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,400
insofar as it relates to me is fake

981
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,400
is wrong it's wrong that you're not

982
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,599
alleging that the document well i have

983
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,359
no way of knowing something that's fine

984
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:13,280
so you're not alleged no i'm no way i've

985
00:37:11,359 --> 00:37:15,359
no way of knowing this is fair to say

986
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,640
since you don't know well you're not a

987
00:37:15,359 --> 00:37:18,160
legend would have been nice to have seen

988
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,320
it before today

989
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,160
not is it fair to say though that either

990
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,920
because you've not seen it before or

991
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,599
because because otherwise you don't know

992
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,680
you're not alleging the documents are

993
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:29,040
fake is that is that fair to say i

994
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,760
haven't had it in my possession long

995
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,520
enough to form a view about that would

996
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,200
you let the subcommittee know after

997
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,560
you've had it in your

998
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,079
possession long enough whether you

999
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,200
consider the document yeah although

1000
00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:41,200
there is a

1001
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,960
there is an academic quality about all

1002
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,960
uh senator eleven because you've already

1003
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,160
found me guilty before you before you

1004
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,000
actually allowed me to come here and

1005
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,240
speak for myself well in in order to

1006
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,760
attempt to clear your name would you

1007
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:53,839
let's be clear about something so let me

1008
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,839
finish my question let me be clear about

1009
00:37:53,839 --> 00:37:58,240
that first of all

1010
00:37:55,839 --> 00:38:00,160
would you submit to the subcommittee

1011
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:02,240
after you've had a chance to review this

1012
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,480
document whether or not in your judgment

1013
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:06,880
it is a forgery will you do that well if

1014
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,960
you give me the original

1015
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:11,119
i mean this is not presumably you wrote

1016
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,680
this english translation yes and there's

1017
00:38:11,119 --> 00:38:15,680
a there's a copy underneath it

1018
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,839
yes there is a copy of a gray blur if

1019
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,520
you if you're giving me the copy of the

1020
00:38:17,839 --> 00:38:21,520
original you'll give me the original in

1021
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,119
a decipherable way then of course that's

1022
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,400
that'd be fine we would appreciate that

1023
00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:28,880
yeah um now if if at the bottom of this

1024
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:32,079
document assuming it's assuming it's not

1025
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:35,040
a forgery for a moment um

1026
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:36,880
it says surcharge

1027
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,240
are we together

1028
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,720
as per the instructions of your

1029
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:42,640
excellency over the phone on 12 1101 of

1030
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:45,359
not accepting the company's proposals

1031
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,720
unless they pay the debt incurred since

1032
00:38:45,359 --> 00:38:50,800
phase eight

1033
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:51,920
if in fact if in fact mr zurich's

1034
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,440
company

1035
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,480
paid a

1036
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,400
surcharge or a kickback to the iraqi

1037
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,480
government

1038
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,079
in order to obtain an allocation of oil

1039
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,320
would that trouble you

1040
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:06,640
well it turns out from your own

1041
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,240
testimony that practically everyone in

1042
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,599
the world and especially the united

1043
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:13,280
states was paying kickbacks my question

1044
00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:15,440
it troubles me a great deal yeah as

1045
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,280
you've heard about my from my

1046
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,119
from my statement today i'm very much

1047
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,480
troubled that we have an oil company

1048
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:22,000
that was involved in this and we're

1049
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,440
going to go after that oil company now

1050
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,320
let me ask you

1051
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,800
i've expressed my view about the bay oil

1052
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:31,200
so now let me ask you about mr zircott's

1053
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:35,119
company if in fact

1054
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:37,280
mr zurich's company paid a kickback to

1055
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:39,200
the iraqi government in order to obtain

1056
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,960
this allocation would you be troubled

1057
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,560
that's my question yeah that's a good

1058
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,160
question and and will you i appreciate

1059
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,200
you will you allow me to answer it

1060
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,040
seriously

1061
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,079
seriously not in a yes or no fashion

1062
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,440
because i could give you a glimpse

1063
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:50,960
providing you give us an answer i'd be

1064
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,720
delighted providing you give us an

1065
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,560
answer i'd be delighted to hear it

1066
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:58,400
here's my answer and i hope it does

1067
00:39:54,560 --> 00:40:01,040
delight you i opposed the oil for food

1068
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,960
program with all my heart

1069
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,240
not for the reasons that you are

1070
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,480
troubled by it

1071
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:07,839
but because it was

1072
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,760
a program

1073
00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:11,119
which saw the death

1074
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,359
i'm talking about the death now i'm

1075
00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:15,359
talking about a mass grave

1076
00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:17,200
of a million people most of them

1077
00:40:15,359 --> 00:40:20,000
children in iraq

1078
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,560
the oil for food program gave 30 cents

1079
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,160
per day per iraqi

1080
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,280
for the period of the all for food

1081
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:30,240
program 30 cents for all food all

1082
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:33,040
medicine all clothes all schools all

1083
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:35,200
hospitals all public services

1084
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:38,800
i believe that the united nations had no

1085
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:42,160
right to starve iraq's people because it

1086
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:44,480
had fallen out with iraq's dictator

1087
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,720
david bonier your former colleague

1088
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,680
senator whom i admired very much a

1089
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:52,599
former chief whip here on the hill

1090
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:56,400
described the sanctions policy as

1091
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:59,040
infanticide masquerading as politics

1092
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,960
senator coleman thinks that's funny but

1093
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,240
i think it's the most profound

1094
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,119
description of that era that i have ever

1095
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:08,560
read

1096
00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:12,400
infanticide masquerading as politics

1097
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,280
so i opposed this program with all my

1098
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,440
heart

1099
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,480
not because saddam was getting kickbacks

1100
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,079
from it

1101
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,040
and i don't know when it's alleged these

1102
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:23,280
kickbacks started not because some

1103
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,599
individuals were getting rich doing

1104
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,680
business with iraq under it

1105
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:30,960
but because it was

1106
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:34,400
a murderous policy of killing huge

1107
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,200
numbers of iraqis that's what troubles

1108
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,200
me

1109
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,160
that's what troubles me

1110
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,040
now

1111
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:43,119
if you're asking me that is mr zurich in

1112
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,359
some difficulty

1113
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:47,040
like all the other companies

1114
00:41:45,359 --> 00:41:50,400
that it would appear

1115
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:52,400
paid kickbacks to the iraqi regime no

1116
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,560
doubt he is although it would appear

1117
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,800
he's quite small beer compared to the

1118
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,200
american companies who were involved in

1119
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,280
the same thing

1120
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,520
now my question

1121
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,280
that's what i told you what troubles me

1122
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,119
and i've asked you i'm asking you i

1123
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:09,119
would have trouble my question now now

1124
00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:11,359
that you've given us your your again

1125
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:13,760
your your statement about your feeling

1126
00:42:11,359 --> 00:42:17,200
about the oil for food program

1127
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:20,160
um my question is would you be troubled

1128
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:22,000
if you knew that mr zurich

1129
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,839
paid a kickback in order to get an

1130
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,079
allocation of an oil contract that's a

1131
00:42:23,839 --> 00:42:27,760
very simple question it's mr zurich's

1132
00:42:26,079 --> 00:42:29,520
problem not mine it would not trouble

1133
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,280
you it's mr zurich's problem not mine

1134
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,839
and so that if an ill if a kickback

1135
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,680
which was illegal under international

1136
00:42:33,839 --> 00:42:37,200
and now you may not agree with the u.n

1137
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,960
but that's the international community

1138
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,640
that you're attacking which is fine

1139
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,079
you're entitled to do that you're

1140
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,359
entitled and i'll defend your right to

1141
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:47,359
do it but you're attacking a u n program

1142
00:42:45,359 --> 00:42:49,119
which is your right to do which was

1143
00:42:47,359 --> 00:42:50,960
aimed at providing humanitarian

1144
00:42:49,119 --> 00:42:53,280
assistance to try to alleviate the

1145
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,880
problems that the sanctions provided

1146
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,760
which is your right to do but my

1147
00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:00,560
question which you are so far evading is

1148
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,000
would you be troubled if that un oil for

1149
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,800
food program

1150
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:07,440
was being circumvented by the kind of

1151
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,839
kickbacks which were taking place and

1152
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:12,319
being given to saddam hussein in order

1153
00:43:09,839 --> 00:43:13,200
to obtain allocations under that program

1154
00:43:12,319 --> 00:43:16,480
if

1155
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:18,880
mr zurich participated in that kickback

1156
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,240
scheme which violated the u.n saying you

1157
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,000
may not have agreed with it that it

1158
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:24,400
violated the program would it trouble

1159
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:27,040
you if he violated that u.n program in

1160
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,560
that way that's my question senator

1161
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,160
there are many things i know other

1162
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,920
things trouble you but can you just give

1163
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,920
us a straightforward answer you've given

1164
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,680
us a long explanation of other things

1165
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,760
that trouble you which is you're right

1166
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,640
now i'm asking you whether that troubles

1167
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,960
you

1168
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,560
it troubles me that it might put him

1169
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,920
in difficulty

1170
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,079
it troubles me

1171
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,960
that it might now

1172
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:49,760
lead to a prosecution of him it troubles

1173
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,359
me

1174
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,880
that uh

1175
00:43:51,359 --> 00:43:55,200
this will be further

1176
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:58,720
smoke in the smokescreen

1177
00:43:55,200 --> 00:44:00,240
but i root and branch opposed this

1178
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:02,480
oil for food programs a lot of things

1179
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:05,040
you oppose but you don't believe should

1180
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:07,839
be circumvented in illegal ways isn't it

1181
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,760
please senator you supported the illegal

1182
00:44:07,839 --> 00:44:11,520
attack on iraq don't talk to me about

1183
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,119
illegal sorry about that i didn't but

1184
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,640
that's beside the point well

1185
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:16,079
that's that's beside the point you're

1186
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,560
you're wrong on your face i'm

1187
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:20,640
collectively talking about the senate

1188
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,920
not you personally well it's okay sorry

1189
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,040
let me go back to my question i don't

1190
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,040
want to get well i don't want to get

1191
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,599
across i don't want to get involved why

1192
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,599
not you want to talk about illegality no

1193
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:31,520
you launched an illegal war which has

1194
00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:33,359
killed a hundred thousand let's try you

1195
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,119
want me to be troubled about no i want

1196
00:44:33,359 --> 00:44:37,040
you to answer i want you to answer

1197
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:38,160
questions which are fairly put and

1198
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,079
directly

1199
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,040
now i'll ask you one last quest two last

1200
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:42,160
questions

1201
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,119
if

1202
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,720
if

1203
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:48,960
mr zurich's contributions

1204
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:51,599
to miriam's appeal

1205
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:55,200
came from

1206
00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:56,640
the sale of oil or his share of a sale

1207
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,839
from oil

1208
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:03,839
which he was able to obtain because he

1209
00:44:59,839 --> 00:45:05,839
paid a kickback in violation of the un

1210
00:45:03,839 --> 00:45:08,079
program would that

1211
00:45:05,839 --> 00:45:09,760
contribution trouble you that's my

1212
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:11,839
question well well

1213
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,200
senator if you can't give a short answer

1214
00:45:11,839 --> 00:45:15,839
i'll give as short as i can and i

1215
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:18,400
appreciate your fairness in this

1216
00:45:15,839 --> 00:45:20,319
fundraising for political purposes

1217
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:25,119
is seldom pretty

1218
00:45:20,319 --> 00:45:25,119
as any american politician could testify

1219
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,960
i took the view i can be criticized for

1220
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,359
it

1221
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,520
have been criticized for it

1222
00:45:31,359 --> 00:45:34,640
that i would fundraise from the kings of

1223
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,359
arabia

1224
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,800
whose political systems i have opposed

1225
00:45:37,359 --> 00:45:41,760
all my life

1226
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:44,000
in order to raise funds for what i

1227
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:47,200
thought was an emergency

1228
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:50,640
facing a disaster and

1229
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:53,119
i did not ask mr zurich which part of

1230
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:55,599
his profits from his entire business

1231
00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:57,440
empire he was making donations to our

1232
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:58,960
that wasn't my question my question was

1233
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,800
no my question is would it trouble you

1234
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,000
if you found that out and yeah it's okay

1235
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,119
you're not going to answer it it's clear

1236
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,480
to me i want to go to my next question

1237
00:46:03,119 --> 00:46:06,319
all right you're just simply not going

1238
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:10,319
to answer i will say american

1239
00:46:06,319 --> 00:46:12,640
politicians who find the source of money

1240
00:46:10,319 --> 00:46:14,240
after it's given to them is troubling

1241
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,359
when they find out something they didn't

1242
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:19,200
know afterwards frequently well and

1243
00:46:17,359 --> 00:46:21,280
hopefully i think always but at least

1244
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,040
frequently will return that money will

1245
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,200
say they disagree with the source of the

1246
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,480
money hopefully all of us will do that

1247
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,200
but whether or not we all live up to

1248
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,599
that standard you clearly do not adopt

1249
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,359
that as a standard for contributions to

1250
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:35,280
miriam's appeal you're not going to look

1251
00:46:33,359 --> 00:46:36,960
at the source of the money you're just

1252
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,560
simply going to accept the money and

1253
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,599
you've made that clear i want to just

1254
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:44,160
ask you about tariq aziz yeah tariq aziz

1255
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:45,599
you you've indicated you you uh

1256
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,000
who you didn't talk to and who you did

1257
00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:50,960
talk to did you have conversations with

1258
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,960
tariq aziz about the award of oil

1259
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:55,280
allocations that's my question

1260
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,800
thank you i'm done thank you just uh one

1261
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,960
follow-up on the tariq as his question

1262
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,040
uh how often how did you describe your

1263
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,760
relationship with threak aziz friendly

1264
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,200
how often did you uh meet him many times

1265
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,000
did you have can you give an estimate to

1266
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,640
that

1267
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,760
no many times he said well many times

1268
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:15,520
more than five yes yes more than ten yes

1269
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,800
is it fifteen around fifteen

1270
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,480
well we're getting nearer but i i

1271
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,599
haven't ever counted it but many times

1272
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,040
and you have things i'm saying to you

1273
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:22,560
many times and i'm saying to you i was

1274
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,599
friendly with him he described his very

1275
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,440
dear friend

1276
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:27,680
uh i think you've quoted me of saying a

1277
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,880
dear dear friend i don't often use the

1278
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,000
double uh

1279
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,920
adjective

1280
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,160
but uh i was looking into your heart on

1281
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,839
that but uh

1282
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,200
friend i have no problem with senator

1283
00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:39,599
just before you go on

1284
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,920
i do hope you'll avail yourself of this

1285
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:43,839
dossier that i have produced i'm really

1286
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,200
speaking through you to senator levin

1287
00:47:43,839 --> 00:47:47,200
this is what i've said about saddam

1288
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:51,440
hussein we will uh enter that into the

1289
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:52,640
record uh with without objection

1290
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,400
i have no further questions for the

1291
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,560
witness your excuse mr scowley thank you

1292
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,560
very

1293
00:48:05,359 --> 00:48:09,359
did we much a vote

1294
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,200
take a look at that it's either a recess

1295
00:48:09,359 --> 00:48:14,720
or a vote

1296
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,720
looks like either a vote or a recess

1297
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:20,960
a 15-minute vote

1298
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,960
what 15

1299
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,520
we have a we have a vote the uh the

1300
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,760
hearing will be recessed we have one

1301
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:33,000
more probably recess for uh

1302
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,000
20 minutes

1303
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,760
um