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well George Galloway MP is here

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congratulations um you going to be any

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more conscientious representing the

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people of Bradford than you were in

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Bethal Green Oh don't start by insulting

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me now let's not go off let's not get

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off on there a more serious Point here B

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start you only attended 8% of votes

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during your time there as I've explained

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to you and others many times before in

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the Commons you can only vote for the

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government's motion or the leader of the

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opposition's amendment and seldom wished

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to vote for either in that 5 years my

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attendance in Parliament was daily my

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attendance in votes depended on what the

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issue under discussion was but you know

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what Jeremy I won you're going to have

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to get used to that I won a great

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Victory I've already congratulated you

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well yes but not sincerely evidently no

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quite sincerely it is I said it was one

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of the most epic Victory maybe the best

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answer I can give you then is evidently

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the people of Bradford West think so

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because they voted for me an

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overwhelming number well I'm quite

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struck by the phrase that you used we

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heard it there the Bradford spring I was

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just Str me as an odd form of words for

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a man who described president Assad

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Syria as the last castle of Arab dignity

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please don't think that I'm on trial in

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front of you Jeremy you're not fit to be

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my judge the people of I'm not judging

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you I'm just thinking it's a very odd

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form of words well evidently the people

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of Bradford West who frankly matter to

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me far more than you do uh are the judge

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of what I say and what I do

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and they judged in a democratic election

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18,000 of them to put their ex next to

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my name so they evidently were not put

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off by your misrepresentations of My

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Views about Syria in fact you did you

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did I've seen the email you did describe

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Assad Syria as the last castle of Arab

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dignity I did in 2005 and 2010 in fact

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no it wasn't in 2010 it was the 14th of

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August 2010 well uh my speech in Syria

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was in 20 no we're not we talking about

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an email not your speech when you talked

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about what a good chap asset was the

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email you sent Let Let Me Tell well that

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was at the time he was sleeping in

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Bingham Palace in the Queen's bedroom he

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wasn't sleeping in Bingham Palace in

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August 2010 the Syrian people are the

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last castle of Arab dignity they are the

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last castle of resistance to Israeli

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occupation and to imperialist Intrigue

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in the area but I don't think that was

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an issue in the Bradford West byelection

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of great for spring please accept that a

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big uprising of people peaceful

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Democratic Uprising unknown unnoticed by

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you you didn't send anyone there the

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London media didn't send anyone there

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and yet it happened has to be

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characterized as something new in

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British politics they were not voting on

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My Views about Syria neither on My Views

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about uh how to vote in House of Commons

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uh division which are largely

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meaningless to most of them which is

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what this discussion really should be

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about we're going to get on to that I

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just want to get one other point with

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you which is this why did you say God

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knows who is a Muslim and he knows who

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is not I George Gallow don't drink

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alcohol I never have I George Gallow who

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fought for Muslims at home and abroad

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all all of my life now why why wouldn't

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I say that well it I just interested as

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to why you found it necessary to say it

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because the labor candidate was going

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around campaigning on the twin basis

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that he was a Pakistani and a Muslim so

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I believed that that playing Shameless

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playing of ethnicity as an electoral

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card was something that needed to be

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answered and ordinarily of course if it

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were me that were being accused of it

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you'd be the sternest critic people

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shouldn't vote for I've never had anyone

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ask for my boat by telling me how much

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they drink that's all I was just curious

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well I mean I don't drink and he does

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all right let's talk uh let's talk a

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little bit about what this Victory uh

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for George Galler is a it is a

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sensational result let's talk about what

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it represents Ed milleran was talking

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about how you your party needs to listen

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why didn't you realized that before I

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think he's always spoken about that it

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was a sensational result and I think to

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be to be honest Jeremy you do a

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diservice to people of Bradford West by

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focusing on George does George drink

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what George said about the people you

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know what he chose to say in a democracy

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you have to listen when people vote in

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those numbers and clearly the people of

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Bradford we

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best that they they were trying to get a

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message through to the political

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establishment and I think the underlying

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message it's not just issues about um

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Afghanistan although whether you live in

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Bradford or TB worlds you wonder what on

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Earth was still doing in Afghanistan 10

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years after the beginning there is an

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issue though about the huge economic gap

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between north and south and it's a

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mistake to write off Bradford West as

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some people do we need to listen to that

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message we s but at a broader level what

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is going on do you think in people's

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attitudes to the mainstream parties well

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they're falling away from them I we've

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got consistently lower attendances the

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attempts of both the Tories and labor to

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launch themselves in some sense as mass

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membership parties has largely been a

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failure and I think that the kind of tip

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Fort business of politics you know the

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Liberals came into the last election on

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the face of it with an honest desire to

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try and change that and to Try

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introduce

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fo well you know I yes it fooled me and

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in a sense I didn't think that they'd be

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so feeble when it got to the negotiating

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procedure I thought it's a a party that

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understood how proportional government

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worked they might have been prepared to

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sit down the point is it's over for the

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lips but you know I must say this that

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every time there's a sensational

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byelection going all the way back to

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Eric luk and opton people say this is

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the end of Politics As We Know But funly

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enough no one no one saying it's the end

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of politics but have you do you notice

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it in the conservative party as well

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well yeah I think so I mean this has

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been a wakeup call I think for all the

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political parties and it may well be

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that a future byelection even in this

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Parliament that the conservatives may

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have big problems and I think part of

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the issue actually was the way we do

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politics everything is focused on the

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marginal seats so what happened in

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Bradford what was interesting was I

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don't think labor had any idea of any

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data about what where the voting

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preferences were so that come close of

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polls they' sort of assumed we've won

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again like we've won for the last 40

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years and that's why it was such a shock

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I think to the labor party so did Tory

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polling predict that George Gallow was

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going to win no no he didn't but

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again we all I'm sorry I'm not making

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I'm not try to make an anti-labor point

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I'm making a point that the whole Focus

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now of politics is on the 80 to 100

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marginal seats where everything matters

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all the resource goes in I think that's

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the relatively small armies of of

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members that all the parties's your Sol

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working that what's your solution I

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don't think there are easy solutions to

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it and uh the reality I'm afraid is uh

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this is one of the difficulties I think

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there was great excitement when the

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Coalition came in two years ago about a

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new Fresh politics no there was well in

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I think from some people there was

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George I detected none of that I must

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say I was house house at the time but I

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you need to get out more part part part

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of the problem I think now is that

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essentially we have got probably

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diminished living standards in this

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country for the next decade and it is

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going to be incredibly difficult no

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government of whatever stri is going to

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be popular and no opposition is going to

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be trusted not least because we may well

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be in a situation rather like the 1960s

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and70s where will be chopping and

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changing at each and every election

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going forward and that think that is

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going to be the main problem the point

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isn't the point about Bradford you know

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George was campaigning when you were

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campaigning you were saying that there's

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this Brad re system uh among uh certain

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erdu people in in the labor party in

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Bradford there's a system essentially of

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patronage it's good old Tam style

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politics and in a way there's a Brader

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system operating at a national level as

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well the political class offers cures in

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a way it's viewed as a closed loop it

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doesn't

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matter a George G it's a parallel

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universe Jeremy I mean Mark is a a

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gentleman and an expensively educated

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one but

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frankly frankly he he might be from Mars

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to the streets of Manningham there youth

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unemployment has risen 40% in 12 weeks

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and tripled in a year the mass of the

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people are in absolute poverty in

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British terms not relative to other

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countries in the world but in British

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terms Mass poverty and these politicians

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not Diane but the political leaders

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speaking a different language to them

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and about different things to them it's

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a rather beautiful inverted world isn't

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it Bradford George you've got an

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enormous hole in the middle of your city

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where is a Westfield meant to be unlike

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the enormous Westfield on statford mares

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C parts of the country that have not

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never recovered from the

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de-industrialization of the that years

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and now the Coalition is slashing public

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sector spending no wonder there's no

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hope but you see the interesting thing

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about George what what what whatever

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even his critics will acknowledge that

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George Galloway gave people who voted

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for him something to hope for let's hope

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well I I'm afraid I think rather

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misguidedly I mean well it's in George's

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problem and respects problem in general

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and there they're in a coalition with

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some rather unlikely fellow Travelers

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who don't necessarily even want to

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travel with George sounds like

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the namely the swp but all of these

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groups to some extent you know demand

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representation and represent a part of

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the vote and we don't have an electoral

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system that is capable of reflecting

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that level of diversity and all due

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respect no pun intended to George but

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what he had in Bradford was a Synergy

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between the conditions he describes the

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economic and social conditions and a

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particular local disaffection on two

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issues British foreign policy because of

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the ethnicity of the

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and a disection with the local La of all

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it's not it's not just Muslims that

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think we should come out of Afghanistan

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it's not just Muslims who were very

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disolution by the Iraq Professor self of

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course is a distinguished figure of

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Academia so he'll want to hear this the

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university Award of Bradford West which

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as the name suggests is as plural

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ethnically and uh in other senses as it

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can be I want 85% of that vote and and I

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want it because your friends in the

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liberal Democrats absolutely betrayed

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the university community and the student

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Community who from this September will

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be paying £9,000 a year in tuition fees

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that was not a Muslim issue that was a

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young person's issue yeah

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but I'm not going to reverse it but I'm

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going to speak for them I'm going to

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speak out and I as has happened already

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I am heard when I speak people are

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paying attention to what I'm saying

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because of this result yes but

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essentially you'll be sideswiping actual

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parliamentary politics you're a lone MP

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in sense okay let's let's leave that

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that but that question that that that

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George Galloway raises of how the

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liberal Democrats behaved in making a

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very very public pledge which on getting

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into the first sniff of power for

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decades they immediately Ren upon that

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has destroyed a tremendous amount of

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trust main very dissolution absolutely

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it's a

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political I mean you you backed him

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didn't you bought I voted for I would

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say G

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Professor the

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Liberals that's the one on the street

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they really are headed for we'll have to

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we'll have to wait and see but is this I

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wonder if this sort of behavior is the

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consequence of Coalition what happens

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when you have coalition government no I

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I think there is an element of that

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we're not used to coalitions in this

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country the notion that after an

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election that essentially a coalition

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agreement is reached which is like a

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sort of tablet of stone compared to the

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manifestos that were put to the public

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at large and that is a problem and and I

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think it is get to caus a certain amount

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of disillusionment there is this whole

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sense as you say that there's no

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legitimate mandate for quite a lot of of

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what is going on um but a lot of that of

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course again it's driven by the economic

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situation which again none of the

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political parties labor liberal or the

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conservatives leveled with the public

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before the last election about how

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serious it was we were we were dancing

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on the edge of a pin saying about6

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million pound is the difference between

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Armageddon and uh and sunit Uplands and

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that that I mean there there were some

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of us who did actually say at the time

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listen this not the way to to go about

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it but a line after the disillusion has

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been the well not dis perhaps not

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disillusion but but the fact that the

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the voter has become more promiscuous

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more volatile more changeable has

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something that's been going on for 40 or

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50 years isn't it well the irony

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probably is fun enough in the next

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election um there's been this dimin in

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the vote for the main two main parties

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conservative and labor party probably it

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will actually go up slightly the next

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general election because of the collapse

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one assumes to certain V

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going but I don't disagree with with

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what you're saying and I think you know

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the clip earlier on was very very

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interesting because actually what you

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have is a lot of small single isue Pro

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protest groups who basically are very

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targeted and they deliver and the

363
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feeling is the political class just

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makes a lot of promises every time and

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partly because of global factors and the

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power of international business you can

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also take your concerns elsewhere can't

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you you can take your concerns to a to a

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charity to you can tweet you can you can

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you saw that that 38 degrees if they

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really have a million members that's

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hundreds of thousands more than any of

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the political parties here hang on a

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minute the stop the war Coalition moved

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millions of people in the runup to the

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Iraq War uh people are in CND they're in

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all sorts of things longer trust parties

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but it's not one or the other it is not

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single issue pressure groups all

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political parties they work together

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none of this actually feeds into

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legislation you know you can be as mean

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as you like about the lib Dems and the

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reality of it is that actually if you're

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a libd party member in theory you have a

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say in what goes into the manifesto and

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becomes so that's why the lib Den

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betrayal looks so bad on the other hand

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if you're a member of the Tory party you

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can suddenly wake up to find your a

391
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government introducing a piece of

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legislation like the reorganization of

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the National Health that you had no part

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in you didn't even necess the top rate

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of tax and tories are very happy about

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that you know the actual disconnect

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between being a member of the Tory party

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and a Tory government is you know

399
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necessarily could be perceived as you

400
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say we've we're a less Democratic party

401
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in that sense in the sense that we've

402
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always taken the view that we get on let

403
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the want then let the team get on unless

404
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you want everything to disappear in this

405
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:48,279
kind of gloop of Civic mindedness and

406
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vague internet petitions what you want

407
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is people to be keyed into the business

408
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of making legislation to feel that they

409
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have a stake leg to say the Tories

410
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haven't delivered for Tor voters cutting

411
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tax cutting the public sector putting up

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the price of PES of course theyve

413
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delivered for key Tory voters but D to

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be

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serious there's actually long longm isue

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I think about kept in power by the

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liberal Democrats there's a longer term

418
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issue I think about whether we have a a

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a distinction between the executive on

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the one hand and legislator members of

421
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parliament are legislators to be voting

422
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on The not not being whipped through in

423
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quite the same way now that's a fair

424
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where ahead I let's let's have let

425
00:15:25,519 --> 00:15:29,120
George gway have the last word go on

426
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well I think Will's actually on to the

427
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:34,120
real point that there's a paradigm shift

428
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that the system has failed that the

429
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,319
Tweedle D Tweedle Dum Tweedle d and a

430
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half have if a backside could have three

431
00:15:38,319 --> 00:15:44,000
cheeks they're sitting uh in the House

432
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,759
of Commons across each other in fake

433
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opposition but they all stand for the

434
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:51,759
same things neoliberal economics Cuts in

435
00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:54,600
public expenditure and War abroad that

436
00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:56,360
Paradigm has to be smashed open I I hope

437
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that that started on Thursday okay thank

438
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,920
you all very much thank you now it

439
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:03,160
always used to be said that whatever you

440
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:03,160
thought of individ