1 00:00:00,170 --> 00:00:31,449 [Music] 2 00:00:31,910 --> 00:00:36,840 hello and welcome to doc review with me 3 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,150 camellias chambray Yahtzee in this 4 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,489 episode we'll be reviewing the killings 5 00:00:39,150 --> 00:00:44,100 of Tony Blair starring and written by 6 00:00:41,489 --> 00:00:46,170 George Galloway and co-directed by Greg 7 00:00:44,100 --> 00:00:48,750 Ward Sandlin Vanderburgh and Daniel 8 00:00:46,170 --> 00:00:50,760 Torrey joining me in the studio today we 9 00:00:48,750 --> 00:00:53,250 have Kris Niner who was a founder member 10 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,739 of stopped the war coalition and counter 11 00:00:53,250 --> 00:00:58,410 fire he is also the author of the People 12 00:00:55,739 --> 00:01:00,449 vs Tony Blair and beside him is Maria 13 00:00:58,410 --> 00:01:02,580 Duarte who was a film critic for the 14 00:01:00,449 --> 00:01:04,530 Morningstar newspaper and who has also 15 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:07,049 worked as a news journalist in both 16 00:01:04,530 --> 00:01:09,150 television and radio for many years now 17 00:01:07,049 --> 00:01:11,490 the killings of Tony Blair is a scathing 18 00:01:09,150 --> 00:01:13,290 examination of the political career a 19 00:01:11,490 --> 00:01:15,479 former British Prime Minister Tony Blair 20 00:01:13,290 --> 00:01:18,360 and his questionable business activities 21 00:01:15,479 --> 00:01:20,610 since leaving office Galloway argues as 22 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,560 the title of the documentary suggests 23 00:01:20,610 --> 00:01:25,080 that Blair killed the Labour Party 24 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:27,210 killed a million Iraqis and then made a 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,310 financial killing as a result of the 26 00:01:27,210 --> 00:01:32,060 other two killings let's have a look at 27 00:01:29,310 --> 00:01:32,060 our first clip 28 00:01:34,060 --> 00:01:41,220 [Music] 29 00:01:36,340 --> 00:01:46,409 a new Donna's broken 30 00:01:41,220 --> 00:01:48,509 [Applause] 31 00:01:46,409 --> 00:01:50,700 he had them Clinton thing his eyes 32 00:01:48,509 --> 00:01:53,250 around and big and smiling and he was 33 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:56,340 very charming he became this incredible 34 00:01:53,250 --> 00:01:57,869 pop idol kind of Prime Minister I think 35 00:01:56,340 --> 00:02:00,890 most people who have dealt with me think 36 00:01:57,869 --> 00:02:03,299 I'm pretty straight so a guy and I am 37 00:02:00,890 --> 00:02:05,250 New Labour was backed by the most 38 00:02:03,299 --> 00:02:08,190 powerful media interest because they 39 00:02:05,250 --> 00:02:11,849 realized he was representing then he was 40 00:02:08,190 --> 00:02:16,010 caught red-handed trading policy in 41 00:02:11,849 --> 00:02:16,010 return for hard cash from a businessman 42 00:02:18,019 --> 00:02:23,150 America has no true a friend than Great 43 00:02:20,849 --> 00:02:23,150 Britain 44 00:02:23,190 --> 00:02:40,650 for shampoos as well as don't implanted 45 00:02:28,460 --> 00:02:44,400 into history Blair a war criminal in my 46 00:02:40,650 --> 00:02:46,740 opinion yes most definitely the pursuit 47 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:49,560 of money has become the dominant theme 48 00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:51,750 in your life all these relationships are 49 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:54,780 in most people's estimation corrupt 50 00:02:51,750 --> 00:02:57,450 relationships no previous labour Prime 51 00:02:54,780 --> 00:02:59,520 Minister is behaving this shameful money 52 00:02:57,450 --> 00:03:03,890 who are being way how do you sleep about 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,890 it you know it's that it's as a person 54 00:03:05,370 --> 00:03:08,639 [Music] 55 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,840 welcome both of you to the show Maria if 56 00:03:12,069 --> 00:03:16,030 I could start with you as our guest film 57 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,840 critic how did you find this documentary 58 00:03:16,030 --> 00:03:22,510 well this was a fascinating and complex 59 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:25,900 look and also a somber reminder of Tony 60 00:03:22,510 --> 00:03:29,290 Blair's avarice and it was a passion 61 00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:32,139 project by George Galloway and it was 62 00:03:29,290 --> 00:03:34,540 crowd funded by that 5,000 people and 63 00:03:32,139 --> 00:03:36,670 what he does is he sets the case for the 64 00:03:34,540 --> 00:03:39,670 prosecution and he he interviews a whole 65 00:03:36,670 --> 00:03:41,889 array of people from journalists 66 00:03:39,670 --> 00:03:46,109 politicians to former intelligence 67 00:03:41,889 --> 00:03:48,400 officers and even one of his relatives 68 00:03:46,109 --> 00:03:50,319 and Chris what about you how did you 69 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,599 find this documentary would you agree 70 00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:56,319 with Maria's take yeah I think it's a 71 00:03:52,599 --> 00:03:57,870 very powerful piece of work I mean his 72 00:03:56,319 --> 00:03:59,950 life and what's happened to him 73 00:03:57,870 --> 00:04:01,389 continues to have the power to shock 74 00:03:59,950 --> 00:04:04,540 really I mean it's quite incredible 75 00:04:01,389 --> 00:04:06,700 exciting to think you know I know most 76 00:04:04,540 --> 00:04:08,500 of this stuff but actually the impact is 77 00:04:06,700 --> 00:04:10,870 very very strong and I think one of the 78 00:04:08,500 --> 00:04:13,269 things he gets across is the way this 79 00:04:10,870 --> 00:04:16,060 guy who was presented as being the kind 80 00:04:13,269 --> 00:04:19,150 of voice of a return to democracy and 81 00:04:16,060 --> 00:04:24,010 civilization and a kind of friendly 82 00:04:19,150 --> 00:04:25,930 charming democratic individual who was 83 00:04:24,010 --> 00:04:29,520 the kind of salvation of British society 84 00:04:25,930 --> 00:04:32,349 back in 1997 actually was revealed to be 85 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,280 deeply cynical deeply sinister and 86 00:04:32,349 --> 00:04:38,139 money-grabbing 87 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:40,300 and and cold and calculated indeed in 88 00:04:38,139 --> 00:04:42,639 Moorea this man Tony Blair is known as 89 00:04:40,300 --> 00:04:44,380 the most hated man in Britain and does 90 00:04:42,639 --> 00:04:46,510 this documentary help you understand why 91 00:04:44,380 --> 00:04:49,030 there isn't and if you really if you 92 00:04:46,510 --> 00:04:50,729 didn't know already it does in a way I 93 00:04:49,030 --> 00:04:53,349 mean the problem with it is that 94 00:04:50,729 --> 00:04:55,510 Galloway doesn't provide a defense you 95 00:04:53,349 --> 00:04:57,370 know he goes to his office's Salton Sea 96 00:04:55,510 --> 00:04:59,470 offices and may throw knocks on the door 97 00:04:57,370 --> 00:05:02,259 you know very much like Michael Moore 98 00:04:59,470 --> 00:05:06,099 but doesn't get anyone to give you the 99 00:05:02,259 --> 00:05:07,840 other side and but it is it's just so 100 00:05:06,099 --> 00:05:09,970 fascinating basically and the other 101 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:13,300 thing is that Galloway is very much a 102 00:05:09,970 --> 00:05:14,680 maverick and and a lot of people think 103 00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:16,930 that 104 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,340 he's a bit bonkers not helped by the 105 00:05:16,930 --> 00:05:20,650 fact that he was on obviously a big 106 00:05:18,340 --> 00:05:23,139 brother to pretend to be a cat and so 107 00:05:20,650 --> 00:05:24,910 that along with the facts but many 108 00:05:23,139 --> 00:05:26,350 people think he has an axe to grind 109 00:05:24,910 --> 00:05:27,759 because obviously Tony Blair expulsion 110 00:05:26,350 --> 00:05:29,289 from the Labour Party it was a penny 111 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:31,330 part of the movie actually stopped the 112 00:05:29,289 --> 00:05:33,970 world coalition as press with no in 113 00:05:31,330 --> 00:05:35,680 leading this but this documentary lends 114 00:05:33,970 --> 00:05:37,930 itself as one of the most controversial 115 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,940 documentaries as it stated in the clip 116 00:05:37,930 --> 00:05:42,940 Chris do you think it is and for the 117 00:05:39,940 --> 00:05:46,000 right reasons well I mean I I think you 118 00:05:42,940 --> 00:05:48,250 know in a way Tony Blair sort of is the 119 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,320 big scandal of 21st century British 120 00:05:48,250 --> 00:05:52,870 politics and in a way what's compounded 121 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:55,000 that scandal is the fact that this stuff 122 00:05:52,870 --> 00:05:57,370 isn't really out there that he actually 123 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,710 needs a documentary crowd funded by 124 00:05:57,370 --> 00:06:01,479 George Galloway to tell this story it's 125 00:05:59,710 --> 00:06:04,750 the big story that everyone should be 126 00:06:01,479 --> 00:06:06,580 focusing on so so in that sense you know 127 00:06:04,750 --> 00:06:09,849 it is controversial but it shouldn't be 128 00:06:06,580 --> 00:06:12,639 because really you know this is such an 129 00:06:09,849 --> 00:06:14,650 obvious story in a certain sense for any 130 00:06:12,639 --> 00:06:16,660 investigative journalist to nail it 131 00:06:14,650 --> 00:06:19,090 should be part of the kind of common 132 00:06:16,660 --> 00:06:20,500 sense and in a way in the popular mind 133 00:06:19,090 --> 00:06:22,780 it is part of the common sense but 134 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:25,240 there's this gap between the media the 135 00:06:22,780 --> 00:06:27,699 official world and the rest of us who 136 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,740 basically hate Tony Blair but he still 137 00:06:27,699 --> 00:06:31,960 he's still invited into the day program 138 00:06:29,740 --> 00:06:33,159 to give his opinion all sorts of 139 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,020 different things you know he's still 140 00:06:33,159 --> 00:06:36,220 regarded as a respectable figure despite 141 00:06:35,020 --> 00:06:37,389 the fact that he's clean well that's a 142 00:06:36,220 --> 00:06:39,310 great point but I'm afraid we'll have to 143 00:06:37,389 --> 00:06:41,409 leave it up just for now as we look at 144 00:06:39,310 --> 00:06:43,539 our next clip from the killings of Tony 145 00:06:41,409 --> 00:06:46,210 Blair which talks about flares close 146 00:06:43,539 --> 00:06:48,699 relationship with media mogul Rupert 147 00:06:46,210 --> 00:06:51,419 Murdoch and how Blair destroyed the 148 00:06:48,699 --> 00:06:51,419 Labour Party 149 00:06:53,260 --> 00:06:56,810 [Music] 150 00:06:55,090 --> 00:06:59,680 how would you describe your relationship 151 00:06:56,810 --> 00:06:59,680 with Tony Blair 152 00:07:00,010 --> 00:07:05,770 and the Sephora new labor was backed in 153 00:07:03,430 --> 00:07:07,060 power by the most powerful media 154 00:07:05,770 --> 00:07:09,220 interests that most powerful 155 00:07:07,060 --> 00:07:11,700 corporations and city interests because 156 00:07:09,220 --> 00:07:14,470 they realized he was representing them 157 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:16,720 you shop with the devil you take a long 158 00:07:14,470 --> 00:07:18,070 spoon is the world isn't it and I don't 159 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,140 think there's any doubt that as far as 160 00:07:18,070 --> 00:07:24,010 British polity is concerned 161 00:07:20,140 --> 00:07:26,260 Ribit murder was the devil in in that to 162 00:07:24,010 --> 00:07:27,700 come to an accommodation with him meant 163 00:07:26,260 --> 00:07:32,170 sacrificing all the principles of a 164 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:34,960 Protestant for the Labour Party I had 165 00:07:32,170 --> 00:07:37,860 joined as a 13 year old was as it says 166 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:40,930 on the tin a party of the working class 167 00:07:37,860 --> 00:07:43,450 it prided itself on its internal 168 00:07:40,930 --> 00:07:47,350 democracy with members having the right 169 00:07:43,450 --> 00:07:49,810 to vote on policy but under the banner 170 00:07:47,350 --> 00:07:52,450 of what they called New Labour and I 171 00:07:49,810 --> 00:07:55,390 called non-labor Blair and his clique 172 00:07:52,450 --> 00:07:58,570 began to steer the party into the eager 173 00:07:55,390 --> 00:08:01,390 embrace of Thatcherism dragging a 174 00:07:58,570 --> 00:08:04,720 left-wing party into the footsteps of 175 00:08:01,390 --> 00:08:09,150 the Iron Lady would require an iron fist 176 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:12,620 for Blair democracy was soul overrated 177 00:08:09,150 --> 00:08:16,280 [Music] 178 00:08:12,620 --> 00:08:18,770 I was George Galloway there Maria why 179 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:22,070 was this alliance between murder and 180 00:08:18,770 --> 00:08:23,300 Blair so significant it was incredible 181 00:08:22,070 --> 00:08:25,820 really and it was one of the things that 182 00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:28,580 surprised me because it was the only way 183 00:08:25,820 --> 00:08:30,290 that labor got into power basically the 184 00:08:28,580 --> 00:08:33,770 way that labor was it was never going to 185 00:08:30,290 --> 00:08:36,460 get in so Tony but I had to reimagine 186 00:08:33,770 --> 00:08:38,840 the party and so we had new labor and 187 00:08:36,460 --> 00:08:40,100 and when Margaret Thatcher turn around 188 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,740 and said that her biggest legacy was new 189 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:45,350 labor and Tony Blair then you have to 190 00:08:42,740 --> 00:08:46,940 think or hold on this is not what the 191 00:08:45,350 --> 00:08:49,040 Labor Party is about and in order to 192 00:08:46,940 --> 00:08:51,470 become electable they had to ditch their 193 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,970 socialist tendencies and again goes 194 00:08:51,470 --> 00:08:55,580 against the whole grain of the Labor 195 00:08:52,970 --> 00:08:57,970 Party and what Tony Blair did which was 196 00:08:55,580 --> 00:09:00,170 unforgivable in a way was to bring in 197 00:08:57,970 --> 00:09:02,840 privatization by stealth through the 198 00:09:00,170 --> 00:09:06,530 back door with PF eyes so you had public 199 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:09,170 and private partnerships and this film 200 00:09:06,530 --> 00:09:11,000 brings that out something that I think 201 00:09:09,170 --> 00:09:13,370 you need to hear it to actually believe 202 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,550 it but for me the Rupert Murdoch angle 203 00:09:13,370 --> 00:09:18,260 was just incredible and a Kris why are 204 00:09:16,550 --> 00:09:20,630 you surprised by this relationship and 205 00:09:18,260 --> 00:09:23,720 how big of a role the media played in 206 00:09:20,630 --> 00:09:26,780 bringing up Blair no I mean you know I 207 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,160 think it's a matter of record I think it 208 00:09:26,780 --> 00:09:29,390 was a very important that's a process 209 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,580 that took place at the end of the 210 00:09:29,390 --> 00:09:33,950 eighties the beginning of the nineties 211 00:09:31,580 --> 00:09:36,650 whereby the argument was one in labor 212 00:09:33,950 --> 00:09:37,790 that you know you had to ditch these 213 00:09:36,650 --> 00:09:39,560 policies you had to ditch 214 00:09:37,790 --> 00:09:41,270 nationalization you had to ditch defense 215 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:42,980 the welfare state and progressive 216 00:09:41,270 --> 00:09:45,110 taxation and so on and so forth because 217 00:09:42,980 --> 00:09:46,490 you had to be everything was seen 218 00:09:45,110 --> 00:09:48,680 through the prism of a right-wing media 219 00:09:46,490 --> 00:09:50,420 I mean I don't really buy that narrative 220 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:51,920 actually I think that the tide was 221 00:09:50,420 --> 00:09:55,490 turning against the government the 222 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:58,100 Tories towards the end of the 80s and 223 00:09:55,490 --> 00:10:00,500 certainly you know by the mid 90s anyway 224 00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:03,650 and I think the kind of it was the Sun 225 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:06,920 what one argument both for the Tories 226 00:10:03,650 --> 00:10:08,150 and for the for labour in 97 I think 227 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,890 it's misplaced and I don't think we 228 00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:12,340 should buy into this idea that whatever 229 00:10:09,890 --> 00:10:14,600 the media says is what actually happens 230 00:10:12,340 --> 00:10:16,160 because the price has been such a you 231 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,890 know so huge and many of the problems 232 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:21,050 that the credibility problems that labor 233 00:10:18,890 --> 00:10:24,200 has now can be traced back to that 234 00:10:21,050 --> 00:10:24,800 moment when Blair and before him 235 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,930 actually 236 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,940 it said hang on a minute you know we've 237 00:10:26,930 --> 00:10:31,220 got to ditch Pro working class policies 238 00:10:28,940 --> 00:10:32,899 so you just mentioned that we could 239 00:10:31,220 --> 00:10:34,970 still feel the effects and the legacy of 240 00:10:32,899 --> 00:10:37,190 Blair in destroying the Labor Party how 241 00:10:34,970 --> 00:10:38,990 else did Blair kill the Labour Party 242 00:10:37,190 --> 00:10:40,910 exactly what destroying is a strong word 243 00:10:38,990 --> 00:10:44,660 and I you know I don't think the Labour 244 00:10:40,910 --> 00:10:47,839 Party is over but I think the this 245 00:10:44,660 --> 00:10:49,730 process whereby essentially Tony Blair 246 00:10:47,839 --> 00:10:52,519 built into the there is no alternative 247 00:10:49,730 --> 00:10:54,200 narrative to say that neoliberalism is 248 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:55,880 the only game in town we dress it up 249 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,980 with a few socially progressive policies 250 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,329 but basically we buy it something that's 251 00:10:57,980 --> 00:11:00,140 happened to social democracy right 252 00:10:59,329 --> 00:11:01,970 across the world 253 00:11:00,140 --> 00:11:04,130 I think it's been disastrous and it's 254 00:11:01,970 --> 00:11:06,050 meant that you know there's the call for 255 00:11:04,130 --> 00:11:08,360 Earth the globalized view of the world 256 00:11:06,050 --> 00:11:10,040 has become the dominant one and we've 257 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:14,959 got to get back to providing an 258 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:18,800 alternative he brought this charisma 259 00:11:14,959 --> 00:11:20,630 this whole new kind of presidential line 260 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,370 of politics where you know he was slick 261 00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:24,110 he was stylish he had the sound bites 262 00:11:22,370 --> 00:11:25,670 and people believed him you know he 263 00:11:24,110 --> 00:11:27,500 peddled the lies and if you say a lie 264 00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:29,720 long enough people will believe it and 265 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:32,480 that's what happened and people still 266 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,820 fall through it and and that's the 267 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,880 problem that I think leaders after Blair 268 00:11:34,820 --> 00:11:40,370 I mean the problem they have the people 269 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:43,700 want their leader to be presentable and 270 00:11:40,370 --> 00:11:45,110 to be able to in essence sort of fight 271 00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:47,480 their corner or look as if they can 272 00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:49,370 fight their corner but you know 273 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,670 substance is important it's not all 274 00:11:49,370 --> 00:11:54,740 about style so are you saying there that 275 00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:56,630 Blair became transformed British 276 00:11:54,740 --> 00:11:58,730 politics into a sort of more American 277 00:11:56,630 --> 00:12:02,570 politics yes that's why I think also 278 00:11:58,730 --> 00:12:04,880 brown faltered because he's a he was a 279 00:12:02,570 --> 00:12:08,089 traditionalist or fashioned politician 280 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:10,550 and people were so used to Blair I mean 281 00:12:08,089 --> 00:12:12,800 the war the war on Iraq was incredible 282 00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:14,329 and he sold it I'm actually going to 283 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,339 talk about the Blair and the Iraq war 284 00:12:14,329 --> 00:12:18,949 sorry and the next step as we take a 285 00:12:16,339 --> 00:12:21,019 look at the documentary the killings of 286 00:12:18,949 --> 00:12:23,660 Tony Blair which looks at how Blair 287 00:12:21,019 --> 00:12:27,380 joins then US President George Bush's 288 00:12:23,660 --> 00:12:33,040 crusade to dominate at the Middle East 289 00:12:27,380 --> 00:12:37,309 [Music] 290 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:39,799 we both recognize the danger of Saddam 291 00:12:37,309 --> 00:12:42,019 Hussein harboring and developing weapons 292 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:44,660 of mass destruction the president is 293 00:12:42,019 --> 00:12:46,939 right to draw attention to the threat of 294 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:49,970 weapons of mass destruction that threat 295 00:12:46,939 --> 00:12:52,429 is real as minutes of a bush Blair 296 00:12:49,970 --> 00:12:55,610 meeting spell out the war was to be 297 00:12:52,429 --> 00:12:57,769 justified by imaginary threats Iraqi 298 00:12:55,610 --> 00:13:01,009 terrorism and weapons of mass 299 00:12:57,769 --> 00:13:06,679 destruction the intelligence to be fixed 300 00:13:01,009 --> 00:13:08,689 around the policy as Blair toured the 301 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,299 world drumming up support for the war 302 00:13:08,689 --> 00:13:15,139 the Americans had discovered the only 303 00:13:11,299 --> 00:13:22,040 real WMD around a weapon of mass 304 00:13:15,139 --> 00:13:25,429 deception Blair's strong passionate 305 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:28,819 often advocacy of the war carried a lot 306 00:13:25,429 --> 00:13:33,290 of weight that evidence of weapons of 307 00:13:28,819 --> 00:13:35,360 mass destruction is evidence the truth 308 00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:36,190 of which I've absolutely no doubt about 309 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,560 at all 310 00:13:36,190 --> 00:13:43,690 [Music] 311 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:46,060 we all fully realize now that of course 312 00:13:43,690 --> 00:13:47,380 the weapons of mass destruction was in 313 00:13:46,060 --> 00:13:49,270 fact as Galloway put it in the 314 00:13:47,380 --> 00:13:52,210 documentary a weapon of mass deception 315 00:13:49,270 --> 00:13:54,370 Maria how was it at the time that Blair 316 00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:57,550 was able to lobby so much support for 317 00:13:54,370 --> 00:13:59,589 the Iraq war because of his charisma he 318 00:13:57,550 --> 00:14:01,810 could sell anything basically and also 319 00:13:59,589 --> 00:14:03,010 he had a very great team around him had 320 00:14:01,810 --> 00:14:04,870 Alastair Campbell who was I think 321 00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:06,640 pulling the strings reportedly behind 322 00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:08,020 the scenes and so he would do nothing 323 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,820 wrong I mean the whole thing about the 324 00:14:08,020 --> 00:14:12,339 WMDs was brought up by Andrew Gilligan 325 00:14:09,820 --> 00:14:13,900 in the radio 4 Radio 4's Today program 326 00:14:12,339 --> 00:14:16,810 where he said they set stopped the 327 00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:20,529 document and that WMDs were a myth and 328 00:14:16,810 --> 00:14:22,390 then that he was then called to task and 329 00:14:20,529 --> 00:14:24,820 then it brought down sort of the 330 00:14:22,390 --> 00:14:27,550 leadership at the BBC but fact was he 331 00:14:24,820 --> 00:14:29,110 was Wyatt and Chris this part of the 332 00:14:27,550 --> 00:14:31,300 documentary of course must hit home with 333 00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:33,550 you stop the world of course was founded 334 00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:35,410 after during the aftermath of 9/11 and 335 00:14:33,550 --> 00:14:38,230 led 2 million protesters against the 336 00:14:35,410 --> 00:14:41,680 Iraq war how devastating was Tony 337 00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:43,210 Blair's part foreign policy well I mean 338 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,040 I think you know it's been a catastrophe 339 00:14:43,210 --> 00:14:47,740 obviously for the people in Middle East 340 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:50,560 for people in Central Asia it's 341 00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:52,210 generated carnage and chaos around whole 342 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,970 regions of the world it's actually 343 00:14:52,210 --> 00:14:56,260 spread clearly the threat of terrorism 344 00:14:54,970 --> 00:14:57,550 is made the world a much more dangerous 345 00:14:56,260 --> 00:14:59,500 place he's done all those things but 346 00:14:57,550 --> 00:15:01,839 it's also been devastating to the body 347 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:05,140 politic and I think if you want to look 348 00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:08,740 for the one of the key sources of the 349 00:15:05,140 --> 00:15:11,380 the distrust of the media the D 350 00:15:08,740 --> 00:15:14,770 legitimization of mainstream discourse 351 00:15:11,380 --> 00:15:16,839 and actually the hatred and contempt 352 00:15:14,770 --> 00:15:18,520 people feel for Westminster politics you 353 00:15:16,839 --> 00:15:20,800 need to go no further than look at the 354 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,839 invasion of Iraq back in 2003 because it 355 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,580 was based on lies it was catastrophic 356 00:15:22,839 --> 00:15:28,540 and what happened was the establishment 357 00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:30,730 they came together they defended it even 358 00:15:28,540 --> 00:15:32,050 though lots of them knew it was wrong so 359 00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:35,040 I think you know the hollowing out of 360 00:15:32,050 --> 00:15:37,390 politics has largely been or at least 361 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,550 importantly being a product of that 362 00:15:37,390 --> 00:15:41,320 terrible war and how was it that Flair 363 00:15:39,550 --> 00:15:43,330 was able to get away with such a crime 364 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,520 well I mean remember that the majority 365 00:15:43,330 --> 00:15:47,050 of people in Britain were against it so 366 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,670 despite the fact that most of the media 367 00:15:47,050 --> 00:15:49,329 almost the whole of the media supported 368 00:15:48,670 --> 00:15:51,069 it most people 369 00:15:49,329 --> 00:15:52,720 so through it it was the establishment 370 00:15:51,069 --> 00:15:54,489 coming together that was the problem and 371 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,079 actually it was in my opinion the 372 00:15:54,489 --> 00:15:58,360 cowardice of a lot of people in labor 373 00:15:56,079 --> 00:16:00,429 who knew they were being lied to I mean 374 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,499 I don't really buy that most of the 375 00:16:00,429 --> 00:16:04,329 politicians thought there were WMDs I 376 00:16:02,499 --> 00:16:06,429 mean or if they did they weren't 377 00:16:04,329 --> 00:16:08,079 bothering to check you know so they 378 00:16:06,429 --> 00:16:10,660 would they would they were taken in and 379 00:16:08,079 --> 00:16:12,220 rather than challenging Tony Blair they 380 00:16:10,660 --> 00:16:14,290 went along with it and at because I 381 00:16:12,220 --> 00:16:15,519 think partly they knew that to challenge 382 00:16:14,290 --> 00:16:16,779 Tony Blair at that point would have been 383 00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:21,189 to challenge the whole kind of 384 00:16:16,779 --> 00:16:23,230 neoliberal pro-american agenda stood up 385 00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:25,720 and resigned over it whereas Claire 386 00:16:23,230 --> 00:16:29,679 short I have a great problem with her in 387 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:31,059 this film threatened what she threatened 388 00:16:29,679 --> 00:16:33,489 to resign and then she was obviously 389 00:16:31,059 --> 00:16:35,379 persuaded by Tony Blair otherwise they 390 00:16:33,489 --> 00:16:37,179 should support it the Iraq war and then 391 00:16:35,379 --> 00:16:38,949 she resigned two months later and now 392 00:16:37,179 --> 00:16:41,589 she's on in this video in this 393 00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:43,389 documentary sort of having a go at Blair 394 00:16:41,589 --> 00:16:46,959 and you know against the war in Iraq 395 00:16:43,389 --> 00:16:48,220 well hello you you voted for it and what 396 00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:50,739 do you make I have to talk about this 397 00:16:48,220 --> 00:16:53,319 Blair being appointed as the Middle East 398 00:16:50,739 --> 00:16:57,610 peace and boy biggest tyranny ever 399 00:16:53,319 --> 00:17:00,790 really yeah it's laughable but what can 400 00:16:57,610 --> 00:17:03,730 you do you know yeah and Chris your 401 00:17:00,790 --> 00:17:08,769 thoughts on this well he resigned in the 402 00:17:03,730 --> 00:17:10,059 end in you know in total dishonor and I 403 00:17:08,769 --> 00:17:12,610 think actually it's a very good bit of 404 00:17:10,059 --> 00:17:16,240 the documentary where George talks about 405 00:17:12,610 --> 00:17:19,389 the absolute catastrophe that has taken 406 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:21,519 place in in Palestine the faculty that 407 00:17:19,389 --> 00:17:24,549 Tony Blair only went to the to Gaza 408 00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:27,459 twice in five years as the Middle East 409 00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:30,370 peace em boy is a shocking fact I mean 410 00:17:27,459 --> 00:17:33,490 overall I just think then the the the 411 00:17:30,370 --> 00:17:36,700 the absolute descent of Tony Blair into 412 00:17:33,490 --> 00:17:38,529 this kind of totally degraded human 413 00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:40,960 being who is obsessed with his own 414 00:17:38,529 --> 00:17:43,750 personal fortune he's a friend of 415 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,399 dictators and torturers it's a it's a 416 00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:47,590 really shocking story that goes right to 417 00:17:45,399 --> 00:17:51,820 the heart of the kind of the the 418 00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:54,490 deterioration of politics because as a 419 00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:57,990 lapsed Catholic and he is a converted 420 00:17:54,490 --> 00:18:00,190 Catholic I can't believe that he can 421 00:17:57,990 --> 00:18:02,380 basically sleep at night which is what 422 00:18:00,190 --> 00:18:04,540 Stephen Fry points out 423 00:18:02,380 --> 00:18:07,600 he's committing so many sins on so many 424 00:18:04,540 --> 00:18:10,960 levels and yet he's in total denial you 425 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:13,270 know he's lived he's been a important 426 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,430 accomplice to murder in effect he's been 427 00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:17,410 and and yet you know as it said you know 428 00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:19,240 he was Teflon Tony nothing stuck to him 429 00:18:17,410 --> 00:18:21,250 and not only that we're going to see 430 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,290 that he's made a financial killing as a 431 00:18:21,250 --> 00:18:25,000 result of all these things and we're 432 00:18:23,290 --> 00:18:26,470 going to take a look now at our final 433 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,750 clip from the killings of Tony Blair 434 00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:31,180 which shows the financial rewards Blair 435 00:18:28,750 --> 00:18:33,400 enjoyed since leaving office please be 436 00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:35,910 advised about this clip contains some 437 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,910 flash photography 438 00:18:38,020 --> 00:18:44,910 [Music] 439 00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:47,610 besides JPMorgan Blaire also landed a 440 00:18:44,910 --> 00:18:50,340 job for petrol Saudi an oil company 441 00:18:47,610 --> 00:18:53,730 owned by one of Prince Bandar's many 442 00:18:50,340 --> 00:18:56,070 cousins Blair is popular at the court of 443 00:18:53,730 --> 00:19:02,670 the head shoppers for obvious reasons 444 00:18:56,070 --> 00:19:04,890 and it pays dividends all these 445 00:19:02,670 --> 00:19:07,080 relationships that he's built up in the 446 00:19:04,890 --> 00:19:08,910 years since he was Prime Minister are in 447 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,280 most people's estimation corrupt 448 00:19:08,910 --> 00:19:13,710 relationships they are clearly 449 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:16,530 indicating that the decisions that Blair 450 00:19:13,710 --> 00:19:20,250 took when he was Prime Minister had a 451 00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:22,800 direct impact on who paid him money 452 00:19:20,250 --> 00:19:25,500 thereafter and of course it's impossible 453 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,390 to believe that that didn't affect the 454 00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:30,240 decision-making in the first place and 455 00:19:27,390 --> 00:19:32,070 that idea that people take decisions 456 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,590 with the knowledge that they are going 457 00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:36,990 to be lavishly rewarded in the years to 458 00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:42,870 come is a knife at the heart of our 459 00:19:36,990 --> 00:19:45,330 political and democratic systems Blair 460 00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:48,000 certainly has been lavishly rewarded 461 00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:51,510 although estimates of his wealth differ 462 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:53,360 wildly I mean I read them it's worth 100 463 00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:56,870 million pounds 464 00:19:53,360 --> 00:20:00,639 Charice kind of ask you where it is 465 00:19:56,870 --> 00:20:03,649 [Music] 466 00:20:00,639 --> 00:20:05,299 that was quite nauseating to watch Maria 467 00:20:03,649 --> 00:20:06,979 what's your reaction to the fact that 468 00:20:05,299 --> 00:20:08,960 not only did Tony Blair get away with 469 00:20:06,979 --> 00:20:10,729 the illegal invasion of Iraq there seems 470 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,559 to be enjoying millions and millions of 471 00:20:10,729 --> 00:20:14,419 pounds of money well the thing is that 472 00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:15,710 you know he's not the first he won't be 473 00:20:14,419 --> 00:20:18,649 the last leader that will make money 474 00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:21,229 after office and no doubt using their 475 00:20:18,649 --> 00:20:23,210 little black book of contacts to carry 476 00:20:21,229 --> 00:20:26,690 on the problem is that a lot of people 477 00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:29,570 see it as it's blood money you know lost 478 00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:32,389 almost a million people died in that war 479 00:20:29,570 --> 00:20:34,839 and and it's just heinous that he's 480 00:20:32,389 --> 00:20:37,039 making money off the back of what he did 481 00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:39,559 and people find it very difficult to 482 00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:42,109 reconcile that in the film you see 483 00:20:39,559 --> 00:20:44,570 people throwing shoes and eggs at him 484 00:20:42,109 --> 00:20:46,249 when the book signing of his memoirs and 485 00:20:44,570 --> 00:20:47,539 women buying books then I'm going to 486 00:20:46,249 --> 00:20:50,119 burn it because you know it's been 487 00:20:47,539 --> 00:20:52,070 written in blood and that's the problem 488 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,960 Chris what are your thoughts on this 489 00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:56,359 well I mean I just think this this 490 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:59,619 journey from from being this sort of 491 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:01,519 fresh-faced so apparently idealistic 492 00:20:59,619 --> 00:21:02,929 politician who is going to change the 493 00:21:01,519 --> 00:21:06,580 face of Foreign Affairs and so on and so 494 00:21:02,929 --> 00:21:10,159 forth to being the absolute epitome of 495 00:21:06,580 --> 00:21:12,679 self-serving corrupt and cynical and an 496 00:21:10,159 --> 00:21:15,619 actually kind of jaded figure is a very 497 00:21:12,679 --> 00:21:18,349 very it's a very powerful image that I 498 00:21:15,619 --> 00:21:20,629 think George captures well but it's also 499 00:21:18,349 --> 00:21:22,789 it's not just the the journey of Tony 500 00:21:20,629 --> 00:21:24,799 Blair it's the trajectory of British 501 00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:26,989 politics in the 21st century and I think 502 00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:29,269 you know in a way that's why it is kept 503 00:21:26,989 --> 00:21:30,619 such a secret because attorney the 504 00:21:29,269 --> 00:21:32,899 secret of what has happened to Britain 505 00:21:30,619 --> 00:21:34,820 in the last 15 or 20 years indeed and 506 00:21:32,899 --> 00:21:36,529 Blair is rumored to be making a comeback 507 00:21:34,820 --> 00:21:40,489 to British politics do you think he 508 00:21:36,529 --> 00:21:43,070 stands a chance Maria well I don't know 509 00:21:40,489 --> 00:21:46,849 and the thing is that he can persuade 510 00:21:43,070 --> 00:21:49,219 anyone on anything so yeah I wouldn't be 511 00:21:46,849 --> 00:21:51,349 surprised if he does and managed to you 512 00:21:49,219 --> 00:21:53,239 know work his way back into politics it 513 00:21:51,349 --> 00:21:55,639 doesn't deserve to and people should be 514 00:21:53,239 --> 00:21:58,759 very wary of him but the problem is that 515 00:21:55,639 --> 00:22:01,460 he's thought that that demeanor that 516 00:21:58,759 --> 00:22:03,799 people believe in him even after 517 00:22:01,460 --> 00:22:05,149 everything he's done you know because he 518 00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:06,739 still hasn't been prosecuted and he 519 00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:08,610 won't be he still hasn't really 520 00:22:06,739 --> 00:22:10,380 apologized properly for the war 521 00:22:08,610 --> 00:22:12,059 and it still justifies going to war 522 00:22:10,380 --> 00:22:14,010 knowing full well that there was no 523 00:22:12,059 --> 00:22:16,320 reason and it was all about toppling a 524 00:22:14,010 --> 00:22:19,260 government another regime which is goes 525 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:23,279 against the UN they're not allowed to do 526 00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:26,070 that and he's kind of in this vacuum or 527 00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:27,059 in this little bubble where you know he 528 00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:29,340 hasn't done anything wrong 529 00:22:27,059 --> 00:22:31,049 and if he actually Turner I said look 530 00:22:29,340 --> 00:22:32,789 I'm really sorry hands up I it's 531 00:22:31,049 --> 00:22:34,230 appalling and we shouldn't have gone 532 00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:35,789 because he could have stopped it he 533 00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:39,210 could have stopped according to the 534 00:22:35,789 --> 00:22:41,340 documentary Bush from going to war but 535 00:22:39,210 --> 00:22:42,779 he didn't Chris do you think then that 536 00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:44,340 like Maria saying that he's being 537 00:22:42,779 --> 00:22:47,669 delusional or is he aware of his 538 00:22:44,340 --> 00:22:50,190 intentions I have no idea I don't have 539 00:22:47,669 --> 00:22:53,010 this sort of you know the ability to see 540 00:22:50,190 --> 00:22:55,110 into such a crazed mind but I mean what 541 00:22:53,010 --> 00:22:57,539 I think there is a possibility that he 542 00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:59,370 may make a comeback they've given the 543 00:22:57,539 --> 00:23:01,289 way politics is going in the run which I 544 00:22:59,370 --> 00:23:03,210 think what that represents is the fact 545 00:23:01,289 --> 00:23:05,399 that you know the strange fact the 546 00:23:03,210 --> 00:23:06,690 political center is collapsing actually 547 00:23:05,399 --> 00:23:09,269 that's what's happening across the world 548 00:23:06,690 --> 00:23:11,070 all the kind of the neoliberal politics 549 00:23:09,269 --> 00:23:13,169 and economics that has dominated the 550 00:23:11,070 --> 00:23:16,320 world for so long it's falling apart but 551 00:23:13,169 --> 00:23:19,049 the establishment don't actually have an 552 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,730 alternative so so they keep coming back 553 00:23:19,049 --> 00:23:23,549 to the same story you can see it in 554 00:23:20,730 --> 00:23:25,289 France with macron you know they really 555 00:23:23,549 --> 00:23:27,210 can't find another way forward and I 556 00:23:25,289 --> 00:23:28,679 think that's why in the bigger picture 557 00:23:27,210 --> 00:23:31,019 that's why he's still in the frame 558 00:23:28,679 --> 00:23:32,730 shocking though it may be a lot of Trump 559 00:23:31,019 --> 00:23:35,909 well you know anything's possible 560 00:23:32,730 --> 00:23:37,350 and you know he he comes across as 561 00:23:35,909 --> 00:23:38,880 someone you know sensible and he's 562 00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:40,830 obviously got experience and he can do 563 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,299 the job and that's the other problem I'm 564 00:23:40,830 --> 00:23:43,350 afraid we got a really great point but 565 00:23:42,299 --> 00:23:45,179 I'm afraid we'll have to leave it there 566 00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:47,039 thank you very much to both of you for 567 00:23:45,179 --> 00:23:49,230 joining the show and bad fits for this 568 00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:50,820 episode of doc review thanks for tuning 569 00:23:49,230 --> 00:23:52,860 in and make sure you follow us on 570 00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:55,380 Twitter and Facebook where you can find 571 00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:57,450 us on at stop review show do let us know 572 00:23:55,380 --> 00:23:59,220 your views on today's film and you can 573 00:23:57,450 --> 00:24:00,269 even suggest the documentaries that you 574 00:23:59,220 --> 00:24:02,190 would like us to review 575 00:24:00,269 --> 00:24:05,990 I've been Camilla Shambo yachty and see 576 00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:05,990 you on the next episode of doc review 577 00:24:17,660 --> 00:24:47,359 you 578 00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:47,359 [Music] 579 00:24:51,460 --> 00:24:57,039 you 580 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,039 [Music]