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I
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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gatri he
stood as a Colossus in the Caribbean but
like the tallest of trees he was viewed
from many Vantage points Latin America
Africa Asia throughout the global South
and from Europe itself the tallest trees
catch the strongest Winds of course and
Fidel Castro who died last weekend at
the age of 90 was weather beaten but
never bowed the Cuban Revolution of
which he was the Eternal leader endured
almost 60 years of economic Siege
subversion terrorism even Invasion and
10 US presidents have come and gone
since the first made the first attempt
to assassinate Fidel Castro he was a
threat to the United States but not in
the way they pretended he was a threat
of a good example prove positive that a
better world is possible joining us to
discuss the legacy of the late Fidel
Castro is the director of the Cuba
solidarity campaign Rob Miller Rob we
both had the great privilege of meeting
Fidel many times uh what are your
lasting memories of his character well
for me it was a very sad moment when I
heard of his death because for me Fidel
uh it really is the epitent of uh or the
embodiment sorry of the Cuban Revolution
not just for the people of Cuba but for
the people of Latin America and the
world Cuba signifies for me an
Illuminating Beacon of Hope that a
better world is possible there's a
different way of running our society
societies where people are not left
behind where people have opportunity to
uh achieve where healthc care is free
for everybody regardless of gender or
race or ability to P so it was a sad
moment for me and on a very personal
level because as you say I met Fidel a
couple of times he was an incredibly
impressive man but I think it's his
legacy that is the impression we left
with sure the legacy is there and no one
can uh R it out but as a character I
mean for me he was the greatest man I
ever met by a country
mile because he wasn't just a font of
wisdom and his historical knowledge
after all he'd seen all and seen them
all but he was also extraordinarily
inquisitive he wanted to know things
from
you as well as tell you things that he
knew absolutely I mean I felt that he
wanted to understand my life in the few
minutes I was with him because he wanted
to know how I a young man from Britain
had ended up in Cuba what was my
motivation what was I going to do with
you were a teenager when you first met I
was just 15 when I first met him on a on
a world Youth Festival it was a a
wonderful moment and it really molded my
life really moving forward from and
although you're the only one of that
delegation almost who's remained
faithful there were some other now
apostates who met Fidel at the same time
as you there were some uh Incredible
characters on the delegation whether
they met Fidel they weren't with me at
the time I did but certainly Peter
mandelson was one of the delegates there
as the head I think of the British youth
council at the time Trevor Phillips was
on the delegation as was Charles Clark
The Who later became Home Secretary so
it was I must go and look for their
tributes to the uh to the leader he had
I spent many many hours with him because
if you were lucky enough to get the
summons to come to the midnight plus uh
meetings with Fidel you could be sure
they were going to last a long time uh
and he'd have Maps out and charts out
and he'd ask you things that I was
embarrassed I was unable to answer for
example he asked me what's the total
production of oil in the North Sea and I
couldn't have told you to the nearest
ocean uh and what was the steel
production in Britain and so on he was
extremely interested in what the
politics were the economics were in all
the countries I never knew someone with
such a global grasp you know given that
Cuba was a poor country and island in
the Caribbean he knew more about Germany
than German politician I think uh the
Western impression and the media
impression given nor Fidel is is this
romantic this Vision this image but he
was a very practical man his his his
life was about practicalities of
bettering the world of bettering his
people and it's true when he spoke for
so many hours he told the Cuban people
about the different production problems
in the different provinces and he had
the mini of information there which
could EXP explain to the Cuban people
about the process of building and
developing their society and that was
incredibly important to him because I
think for the Cuban people going through
such a tough time over so many years it
was important that it was an open and
transparent Revolution that everybody
could understand exactly what was going
right what was going wrong and what role
everybody in society had to play to take
the society forward so he was incredibly
impressive but then I think the
leadership in Cuba has been an
impressive leadership because to survive
as you in your introduction said 10 US
presidents Each of which have led a
ferocious assault on that country from
aggression from violence assassination
attempts terrorism a media propaganda
war against the Ireland for that country
to survive and still be working towards
a better world in with a choice that
they make and only the Cuban people have
made to follow that path the scenes that
we're seeing in Havana and we will see
if you look closely on our
absolutely when you're allowed to see
them it is literally the population of
Cuba are out celebrating the man but
also mourning his death but looking
forward to what they can still achieve
as a country there's a real pride in
Fidel but that's because there's a pride
in Cuba their achievements all of the
Cuban people together as one standing up
proud and
firm for me um as a Believer uh there's
there has been Divine uh intervention
from the beginning you'll recall and
people can look up it's available on
YouTube uh Fidel's address in 1959 on
the Triumph of the revolution in a crowd
of tens of thousands a white dove
descends and on the potential of 100,000
shoulders it could have landed on it
landed on Fidel's and I I just knew that
he was was going to go all the way uh
thereafter but miracles do happen one of
the greatest is Operation Miracle the
cban achievements are too long for this
program but tell the viewers about
operation Miracle well it's a a program
essentially to treat people across the
global South particularly in Latin
America with cataracts and it gives
restores their vision and I myself have
been to the Finley Hospital in Nana and
you see people from Bolivia from
Guatemala from Ecuador walking in and
half an hour an hour later walking in
blind walking out amazing can see and
that operation has now treated I think
it's around 2 million people and someone
said to me you know if you're a doctor
or you're a scientist and you lose your
sight having that restored can enable
you to teach again can enable you to
carry on with your research so it's a
KnockOn of helping people realize their
own potential but also to realize the
potential of their people because the
Latin Latin America Cuba and Latin
America have over the last 10 or 15
years began to realize their potential
people are beginning to take control of
their resources their societies for the
benefits of their people so Health Care
restoration of site is part of that
program and it's an incredible
achievement for the Cuban doctors to
have led that process now aided of
course by Venezuela Ecuador Bolivia and
so on I uh I've been quite surprised I
don't know if you were by the intensity
of the ideological aggression over Cuba
and Fidel in the British media I
expected it in the Miami heral but I
didn't quite expect the level of really
aggressive lying uh in much of the
British media what do you think uh is
the reason for that it has been a shock
to be honest because you've had world
leaders uh respecting Fidel Obama kofan
people like maradon the footballer you
name it the Russians Chinese yet our
media is still following this vicious
aggressive path the way I look at it is
this you've had nearly 60 years of
aggression paid for and orchestrated by
the United States government there's an
awful lot of dollars $30 million spent
last year alone on promoting uh regime
change in Cuba with programs inside Cuba
and outside of Cuba and I honestly
believe that that promotion that
expenditure has worked its way into the
media in the United States but beyond
and I think people have to really
question uh their media yet again as to
say look at the facts why is it that our
media is still complicit and part of
this outrageous demonization of 11
million Cubans in the Caribbean who are
really just trying to exercise their
right to choose and develop their
society how they want to develop it it's
a real damn damn damning uh thing uh
report on our media to be frank it is uh
uh and it's been worse in Britain as far
as I can see uh than anywhere else uh in
the world to the extent that you have
people lying about torture in Cuba when
any fool North never mind a journalist a
highly paid and trained journalist that
the only torture there is in Cuba is in
the American hellhole called Guantanamo
Bay tell us about Guantanamo Bay what
what is going to happen to that well the
Cuban people want their land back
Guantanamo Bay is the only uh US base in
an occupied uh land where the people of
that country the government of that
country don't actually want it it has to
be removed it is illegal but the US
government have made it clear that in
the negotiations that they're carrying
out under the Obama Administration with
the Cuban government that the issue of
guantan Guantanamo Bay is not on the
table the fact that they run a prison
camp a torture Camp there is adding in
insult to injury and the base really has
to go Steady As She Goes uh in Cuba
there'll be no uh possibility of
counterrevolution in Cuba uh you know
that and I know that does the enemy know
it I think the I think the Obama
Administration have realized that their
policy has failed they have said so much
that they are the isolated party and
their policy has failed to isolate Cuba
Trump we shall have to wait and see but
I hope that sensible people will realize
that trade and exchange is he'll uh well
he'll try and open a Trump Tower in
Havana trust me on that Rob Miller thank
you very much indeed celebrating Fidel
Castro on the Sputnik today coming up
next his father was a fascist at least
according to the title of his new book
it's Francis Becket up next don't miss
it
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welcome back to Sputnik fascism was
never so strong in Britain as in the
1930s sir Oswald Mosley a labor
aristocratic swordsman broke from the
party and formed a new one which morphed
into the fully fledged British Union of
fascists the bf's original hero and
financial Patron was musolini with a bit
of help from Lord rir whose family still
own the Daily Mail to day and then owned
the Daily Mirror too in time their hero
became Adolf Hitler himself our old
friend Francis Becket a man of the left
himself has long had to live with the
fact that his father was one of Mosley's
top left tenants and one of Britain's
leading fascists he joins us now to
discuss his latest book on the matter a
fascist in the family Francis it's
another fantastic piece of work from
your long line You're such such a
prodigious and Brilliant writer but this
must have been a kind of special book to
feel you had to write why did you feel
you had to write it oh this is this is
the book that's been sitting on my
shoulder all my life demanding to be
written really and I suppose the uh
there were two reasons my father started
out as a socialist after the first World
War uh he joined the labor party became
a labor Member of Parliament uh he moved
to the left joined the independent labor
party which was the the the left wing of
the party what you know the momentum of
its day well I don't know well you and I
might have called it the benites perhaps
I don't know um and gradually as he
became more and more frustrated by the
inability of Labor to change the world
he moved further to the left he created
a number of parliamentary scenes he took
the mace in 1930 out of the House of
Commons and rushed towards the
gentleman's lavatory with the intention
of shoving it head down it was prevented
by the police from actually carrying
this out um and eventually he was he was
drummed out of Parliament and that was
when his life took a a dreadful turn he
joined the British Union of fion he
joined Mosley with the idea so he said
at the time and I think probably
believed that he was really carrying on
his socialist activity in another guys
but of course it soon morphed into
straight uh straight racism and a
thoroughly reactionary General view of
the world he he he would spent the
second world war most of the second
world war in prison under the wartime
regulation 18b which allowed the Home
Secretary to uh to in turn anybody who
was considered to be a danger to the war
effort under which Oswell Mosley and
others uh were also intered and um after
the war he was really pretty well
unemployable and I thought it was a I
thought it was a strange life that ought
to be
told and that had been on my mind really
because he talked fairly freely of I was
going to ask you about did he explain to
you the turn that he had made did he
ever recant it did he uh have any
regrets about it whether he had regrets
I have no idea he wasn't a man who would
like to express he I think he was a man
who for whom expressing regret would
have felt like weakness us so if he felt
regret he certainly never said so to me
but he talked a lot about his life but
he talked principally to me about his
old parliamentary friends about clakley
whom he had been uh whose agent he had
been before he became a Mur parat Jimmy
Maxton who uh you will know all about
George uh the the the sort of C side
leader the Clyde side leader who to whom
he was very close when he was the
Socialist leader the the leader of the
ILP at the end of the 19 1920s and in
the 1930s to whom he was very personally
close in how did they respond then to
his convers he became a non person he
became he became really as he as he
became more and more extreme yeah um his
his old friends one by one dropped out
sometimes uh initially out of sheer
careerism but later on because he what
he was saying was real what he started
to say what he was saying by 1938 39 40
were things that you really couldn't be
Associated were things that I mean he
had started by about the middle of the
30s he had started to talk about Jews in
a way that you just couldn't be
Associated you couldn't you you didn't
want to know somebody would speak in
that way we learn from the book and I
thought I knew this story uh that he was
himself Jewish it's the most
extraordinary thing that I never knew
when I was a child um that this was his
most closely guarded secret and I was
just coming on to that as the other
reason why I had to write this book this
was the most closely guarded secret of
his life I never knew it in his lifetime
I didn't know it until decades after
after he died his mother did my mother
didn't tell me I don't even know whether
she knew or not um I think well I I
can't tell whether she would she would
have known um but in fact his mother
whom he was devoted to was Jewish uh her
her name I had always been told that her
name was Dorothy sammon I now know that
her name was actually Eva Solomon and
that she was of a a
family a fairly typically 19 19th
century uh Jewish Family she had been
declared dead by her Orthodox relatives
for marrying out for marrying out of the
faith and out of out of Judaism and um
and as far as I know never spoke to any
of them again from then till till the
time of her death uh but what is clear
to
me is that she knew she must have known
what fascism was because when he he
didn't he had nothing to do with Mosley
nothing to do with the beginning of the
British Union of fascists which was just
after the fall of the Ramsey McDonald
government in 19 31 he had nothing to do
with it then one or two labor MPS did go
over to it others were tempted even nban
was
tempted but he wasn't one of them he
didn't take any interest in Mosley until
1933 his mother died in 1932 uh and I
think I think that that that was the key
to it that that his mother whom whom he
had been devoted to would have been
horrified even though she she had been
declared dead she would have been
horrified you think the other fascists
knew that's an interesting question
because some of them certainly did know
some of them knew something was up when
he was um when he was interned during
the war and I only learned this from uh
a discussion from among uh the the sort
of remnants of the
internees a rumor ran around the
internment camp among all the other
fascists that his mother had had been a
Jew and he denied it absolutely
ferociously so ferociously and with such
conviction that the rumor went away they
all stopped saying it when I first
started uh started writing the book I
talked to a Jewish academic called David
Englander who knew quite a lot about my
father and I told him this and he said
well that's very interesting because um
my parent parents who were brought up in
the East End uh they always said that
the mother of one of the leading
fascists but they didn't know which one
was Jewish so the story was about the
East End in one way or another in a way
that I can't now quite put my fingers on
what would have happened Francis if they
had triumphed God
forbid uh if they had come to power in
Britain what would there have been
anything distinctively British about
their fascism as opposed to musini and
Hitler I don't think there would have
been particularly it's a very difficult
question to answer because they were so
far from ever getting anywhere um there
was never there was never a moment when
it looked as though Mosley might might
Triumph in Britain it was from from
about 1932 when there was an initial
sort of uh amount of publicity um it
looked like downhill all the way so it's
very difficult to say what a Mosley
government would have looked like but
what you can say is that it would not
have been run according to a set of
principles because that's not the way of
fascism the way of fascism is is is that
you have to subordinate your ideas and
your intellect to those of the
charismatic leader um so that um you
know it would not really matter what
policies a Hitler likes to produce in
fact uh detail detail policymaking was
not really what
Hitler did was not really what musolini
did the idea is that everybody
subordinates their thinking and and the
most important thing the most indicative
thing that Mosley ever said when he he
had left the labor party initially he
started something called the new party
which morphed into the British Union of
fascist and when it became the British
Union of fascist he said I am done with
those who think henceforth I shall go
with those who feel and and that's what
what it's about that you subcontract
your thinking the everybody else
subcontracts their thinking to the Le
again God forbid and thanks to the Red
Army and and others uh it never did but
if the fascists had won the war Mosley
would have presumably been released from
the interment camp and put into power as
the goter in Britain I don't know what
would have happened and I'm not sure
that that is what would have happened
it's not what happened in France after
all um Hitler didn't choose de and Doro
the fascist leaders he chose the uh the
right of the old order Pier Laval and uh
the the old military hero Marshall pan
to to uh to to run the to run what
remained of the French government it
didn't seem to be Hitler's way to to go
for the old fascist leader but to try to
to try to draw in as much as he could so
if he could have found
a a leader from the old parties who who
would have taken it on I think he would
have preferred it that way of course the
other thing to say about if Hitler had
won is this that by then of course my
father and oswal Mosley had fallen out
ferociously they were really at dagger's
drawn uh my father claimed that in in in
one interview with the uh with a
committee that was set up to discuss
internment that he was on Mosley's to be
short list um probably was all I can say
about it is that it's very lucky for
both of them that the fascist State they
dreamed of never came into existence
because one of them would not have lived
to enjoy it it is a fantastic book I
must say and uh I hope it's a load off
your shoulders it is George to have
written it Francis Becket thanks for
joining us on the
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Sputnik and now it's your turn to tell
us what you think through the portals of
social media what's ratling gri our
social media this week is um dedicated
to El commandante Fidel Castro of course
an Osman Dean says a man who showed the
world there is another way of organizing
society and that us imperialism can be
beaten his legacy lives on and Paco says
Fidel Castro and LJ show that it is not
only your basic human right to fight the
injustices that enslaves us but your
duty well A A A Mighty Oak has fallen in
the forest that's for sure we will not
look upon his likes again no for me he's
one of the greatest men That Ever Walked
the Earth he's one of the greatest
figures of the 20th century and who
lasted into the
21st
commandante and that's all the tweets
that we have for this week which all
means that's the end of the show but you
can stay in touch with us on social
media Twitter rtor Sputnik or on
Facebook sputnic on Russia Today is
goodbye from me gatri and from me George
Galloway it's been marvelous
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