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okay I
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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gri
whilst in the political bubble in France
all eyes are on the prize of the L down
on the streets the citizenry are rioting
race relations are plummeting poverty
increasing islamophobia going through
the roof last week's riots in Paris and
Marseilles were sparked by the Sodom ing
of a young black man with a police
trunion a trunion the police said had
accidentally done this dirtiest of Deeds
our first guest is French Muslim and
black so we better pay attention to what
he says about the streets he is Dr
Mustafa tror a midlands-based academic
and commentator and we're glad to have
him on the Sputnik Dr Mustafa we used to
say if you think England's racist you've
never lived in France is that fair as
someone from France who's living in
England yes I think that definitely I do
agree with what you you're saying here I
think that um I'm not saying that
Britain is perfect I think that there
are some issues but uh the good thing I
like here is that uh we try to tackle
the different issues about racism and
and and and so on and uh in France it
seems that uh racism is the norm and
this is
this is what the norm and and the state
seeks to exacerbate it with its politics
but before we turn to that let's deal
with this extraordinary story that gatri
referred to a police transion
accidentally sodomizing a young black
man under arrest causing riots across
the country how can anyone take that
police explanation seriously yes it is
very
indeed and the thing is that I think the
reason why people are rioting today is
mainly because they've got the feeling
that they've been told Lies by the
police it's not the first case like
something like seven months ago you had
the case of Adama who was killed by the
police and here again the police was
telling lies it seems that police uh
each time they do like what we call
police errors they do
the lies and on top of that they are
protected and this is what I think uh
the the injur yes this is what they are
very disappointed with and um how
widespread were the rights how serious
it started in Paris and then not and now
even in Marseilles you've got people
rioting in Marseilles as well so I'm bit
disappointed because seems that um uh
the
information was not spread on the news
very quickly it took time and because uh
France is not RT by the way have
broadcast that in Britain I haven't seen
on any of the other channels it seems
that the French are very strong when
when it comes to hiding the truth or not
uh spread spreading some news and uh so
this is why why I'm here today just to
to uh to explain what is going on in
France in an election year uh where a
very wide spectrum from the far left to
the far right are all contending and
there are actually four or five serious
contenders for the presidency something
that in Britain it's almost impossible
to comprehend it's only one party or
another and it's usually one uh and
there's not usually much difference
between the two but in France it it's
very different um racial
tensions religious tension
and especially given France's role in
the world and the world's role in France
are bound to be swirling around and
colliding with each other no yes the the
the way I like to describe it is is that
uh if you look at the Socialist Party in
my opinion it was hijacked by the right
and the racists so which means that now
there's no much difference between what
uh someone like V
used to say the Prime Minister yeah
under yes and what some sometimes what
Mar Leen is saying okay so this is very
problematic and it seems that very often
ethnic minorities in France they used to
vote for the Socialist Party thinking
that they were more likely to protect
them and uh but that was not the case uh
if you look at Holland uh before uh
being elected he was saying that he
would give um the right to ethnic
minorities to vote in local
elections and once he was elected
president he did not do anything about
it uh same thing about the police people
were asking uh to to take some measures
so that in fact uh to reduce and try to
uh establish kind of uh better
relationship between the police and uh
the people in the different carer or Bon
and that was not uh he did not even
tackle the issue so people are quite um
Disturbed with with all that all this
and another thing is that it seems that
in my opinion that very often the
Socialist Party I'm talking about the
Socialist Party because know because we
they they hold the presidency and the
government uh it seems that sometime it
is more in the interest to
maintain uh ethnic minorities in
certain uh situation so that they uh
they can make sure that um they're going
to vote for them in the elections so
we've got to think about this okay uh
when they are in power they do not
tackle the issues the
problems and they just uh just maintain
the situation and sometimes the
situation is even um is even worse so
that they they they they think that if
they do so in the next election people
are going to vote for them so well orand
is now p and Q am Beno Ben is he any
hope for the minorities I personally I
think that buo is a good uh he's a good
he's a good guy but I'm a bit skeptical
the reason why I'm skeptical is because
uh I I'm asking myself who is he going
to uh uh to rule with who is going to
work with uh if you look at the
Socialist Party you've got
seen you've got Christian toia all these
people were part of the uh former
government we'll come back uh to the
party because I want to ask you a bigger
uh
question the French Empire pretend
unlike the British pretended that its
colonies were not colonies but part of
France on the face of it that seems a
less racist thing to do because you're
saying these people are French but
people like you have never really been
welcomed or or felt French in Mainland
France have you uh We've uh never been
accepted uh they try to uh assimilate us
what I think is and if you look at all
the debates going on today uh in France
with know with the Muslims it is because
the French are trying to apply within uh
the French territory uh what I call an
ethnocide which means uh killing the uh
the cultural
particularity of those uh who are um who
are not white okay like uh black people
North Africans and so on so we've never
been accepted and if you look at all the
problems and the riots we've got today
in the fren society and the different
forms of racism we've got to go back to
uh this part of History to uh the the
French Colonial Empire what's the main
uh axes now is it color or religion
seems to me uh I mean you are both
Muslim and black uh it seems to me that
it's the
Muslim confrontation which is the most
acute am I right yes it is it is now it
is more formal phism based on uh values
okay so what they want to get rid of is
uh the the M Muslim values okay so this
is why we've got all these debates uh
within the F Society but we must not
ignore that there is also a biological
form of racism as well you know and uh
for example for that guy who um who was
raped uh there is one uh police officer
he's I think part of the the police
Trade union and he said on TV that it
was acceptable to call um a black
person is a very racist term in in the
French language it is the equivalent in
this English English language it is the
equivalent of um
of so this coming from uh the the police
on TV and saying that that was normal or
it was
acceptable tells it tells us a lot it
tells us that there is still biological
form of racism even if the most
important today is of course France uh
takes a very belligerent attitude
towards uh Islam in the name of militant
secularism which is itself a religion
militant secularism so that for example
the ban on
boras women being arrested on the beach
for wearing too much rather than as in
the 60s being arrested for wearing too
little these kind of things are
sharpening the confrontation or the
conflict uh between most Muslims in
France and the authorities and of course
the wider Muslim uh um world yeah I
think that's we it's very important for
us uh to denounce what's going on in
France and uh and maybe hopefully people
are going to be uh more educated okay
because what is missing in France is
education I think uh France is
responsible for what happened in 1945
uh with the Holocaust okay and uh after
that the French population was not
educated we were not educated educated
saying this is bad okay so this is why
why you have forc Labor in the French
colonies until
1947 okay and uh and that form of
racism we see
today I think if you want to uh if we
analyze it and if we want to know how
kit is uh so strong we've got to go back
again to uh history well history will
have to wait uh because we've run out of
time but it's been a pleasure talking to
you I must say about all matters French
Dr Mustafa Tori coming up next filmmaker
extraordinaire sha Marie don't miss
it what welcome back to Sputnik I have
maximum respect for our next guest he's
made some of the best documentary films
of recent years and I've even been in
some of them he's currently making a
film about among other things one of the
worst atrocities of the long Irish War
the massacre of the popular music group
the Miami show band and he's the
organizer of the respect Film Festival
which will be launched next week in
Belfast he's Shawn Murray and he joins
us now welcome back to Sputnik Sean tell
us about the respect Film Festival first
of all which will be launched I think on
Monday yeah that's right yeah we uh
we're screening a wide range of films uh
that promote a wider understanding of uh
human rights issues international human
rights issues uh but with particular
focus on the refugee crisis at the
minute which looks at the obviously the
wars in in Africa in the Middle East uh
but also we we are hoping uh to promote
a greater understanding of our own post
conflicts so we have a number of
documentaries that that look at that we
have a number of events and workshops
which bring uh across Community uh
section of people across uh which which
which look at the incidence within our
own uh conflict in the past I think the
concept that resy came from work that I
had done for uh qft that's the
independent cinema at Queens University
uh I helped coordinate a a program which
uh looked at conflicts around the world
and uh addressed some of the issu and
themes around you know modern day
conflict cont soci and stuff like so
people will be coming more from around
the world to Belfast yes I mean once we
had uh over 200 submissions for films I
think the task was then to to organize
uh venues for these we had ideas where
the venues would be uh but most
surprisingly was the reaction from a
number of the filmmakers that that have
submitted their films they're very
excited to come to Belfast excellent uh
I I strongly recommend it Belfast a
great place to go how do people get
tickets see what's on have you got a
website yes we it's ww. resect film.com
and tickets can be bought on that side I
hope it does very well let me turn if I
may to your next film um because you and
I drove past the site of the Miami show
band uh crime and when I came back uh
talking to people about it even
political people had either forgotten
this atrocity or uh had never heard of
it now just tell us how that crime took
place and how it fitted into the big big
picture of collusion between the state
and uh loyalist Terror gangs well
fortunately the the the documentary uh
LS investigates uh the depth of
collusion between the the British army
the r the former uh police force in the
north of Ireland and Loyalist part of
militaries so what the film The the
thesis behind the film is is that uh
British military intelligence wanted a
gloves off approach a doomsday scenario
where they could enact a a a civil war
if you'd like with the IRA uh and what
we have evidenced during the film what
we argue during the film is that they
were responsible for over 120 civilian
killings between 1972 and 1978 and the
Miami sh band being uh one incident uh
during that that period they were a
popular band Catholic and Protestant
popular on both sides uh of the border
the the lead singer I think uh you
explained to me uh appeared on top of
the pops he was a handsome man and they
shot him what 16 times in the face yeah
a number of times in the face it
uh he was known as as the the the
handsome face of the face of of schans
well the face of of AR shans in general
and uh I think you know once once that
that had happened it was like a sign you
know to to to to show everyone on the
what their what their intentions were it
wasn't only to to murder these people uh
but it was the Sant of saying that that
that for for to have a Catholic and
Protestant Bond at the time was wasn't
uh wasn't good enough they didn't want
that what they wanted was polarization
uh division within society and to
certain certain extent they were
successful the people who were in The
Gang that carried out that atrocity and
these others they were of course in some
cases serving so ERS and police officers
that's correct uh they were members of
the UDR the aler defense regiment which
which was a part of the British army am
I right that's correct yeah yeah uh we
have evidence within uh our own F based
on government uh documents which was
supplied uh after a number of years
research by both groups uh Dublin's
Justice For The Forgotten and also the
padan center it's no wonder that this
kind of thing get swept under the carpet
but it's part of a 1970s story that most
people don't know uh the Clockwork
Orange uh operation much of which
originated in the Irish conflict which
led to people you know bugging the
British prime minister and putting fake
money in a fake account of the Deputy
Prime Minister and Generals talking
about overthrowing the British
government it was a very Marky time
wasn't there on both sides of the sea
that's it you've made a very important
Point uh what we are doing in the film
is focus focusing on a particular period
January
1976 where you had uh on the 4th of
January you had six Catholics killed in
the one night you had the the Rey
Brothers Three Brothers killed in White
Cross and County Arma and also three
members of the odod family not far away
in County D now the reaction to that
killing was uh the what's know on as the
Kings M uh Massacre uh was carried out
the next night uh where 10 Protestant
workmen were killed I to bring that into
context uh what we are making a
compelling case of in the film is that
British Military Intelligence controlled
certain sections of the glenan gang to
carry out these to to up up the anav you
would like to try to create this Civil
War scenario so after the Kings Mill
Massacre uh we had a situation where the
Glennon gang and we have government
papers uh which we will will show uh in
the film that their next plan was to
attack a Catholic primary school and
kill all the Catholic Primary School
kids in the school a horrific thought
when we think about it now but we have
uh an eyewitness who was involved in the
Glon gang a former R man who will be
speaking in the documentary about this
really he can just speak really about
that in your document that's correct I I
I went to South Africa to interview uh
this uh whistleblower if you like and he
spoke candidly about the that period
that he was involved in the Glen on
going well you mentioned South Africa uh
it's quite timus cuz I was going to make
that comparison see you described
earlier when talking about the respect
Film Festival your postconflict
Society but it isn't really postc
conflict is it not in the way that you
could say South Africa uh is because in
South Africa there was this Truth and
Reconciliation process in which uh all
crimes had to be accounted for they were
not punished or prosecuted but they had
to be fessed up to and people had to to
uh come to terms with them but that
hasn't happened in the north of Ireland
some of these people are still at large
uh who committed these crimes crimes are
not acknowledged not atoned for uh and
so in a way don't we have a no war no
peace situation in Ireland well it seems
like that George I mean how I could
explain it is that when the fog of War
has died that the the new era that we
live in is not manipulated anymore by
mainstream television so we have
competing narratives now we have a
rebalancing of narratives if you like uh
where films such as this can't tell that
different story can say that this wasn't
a grubby sectarian war that one of the
major antagonists during the conflict
was the British Army and this is and
therefore the British State yeah that's
that's correct the Army was not
operating you know separately from the
state it wasn't a rogue Army it was
Britain that was doing this absolutely
that's an extraordinary thing for
British people to come to to terms with
and you've spent now the last few years
making wonderful documentaries on the
the the the Bal morphe uh crime and so
on and
yet it somehow doesn't cross the sea how
can we help that how can we get these
things into wider British public opinion
well George there seems to be an apathy
within the the British public and that's
not a criticism of the British public in
general it's a criticism of well let me
criticize that it's it's it's a
criticism of uh the grip that uh
mainstream uh TV has had on uh the
viewers at Hansen if You' like uh it's
it's very difficult to to Corner that
market if You' like uh we have no
problem uh with the films been shown in
Australia and America because obviously
of the the the large arish American
Community but it always has even they
still feel pets even they even they
still even they still I mean I just I've
just come back from a a tour of the east
coast of America and we've also uh had
an agreement that the film will have its
uh us debut at Capitol Hill so there's
not only within the American public
within American politics there is a a an
appetite if you'd like for for these
stories yeah every President part from
Trump has claimed to have Irish inh
heritance no that's true that made
chance even Obama which was the most
unlikely claim of all um just finally
then um
120 mothers attributable to this one
gang
uh the Bal Murphy Massacre by the
paratroops regiment the Bloody Sunday
Massacre in Derry by the same regiment
maybe even by the same soldiers in some
uh cases how big's the charge sheet uh I
mean we we see what's happened in
relation to war crimes committed in Iraq
first the media does a big offensive get
rid of the lawyers that are raising it
and so on uh and then shutdown uh
investigation is there any hope for
closure for justice for the victims of
British crimes in that era in that part
of Ireland well unfortunately if you
look at the cases in the moo and Kenya
What there was a a a particular strategy
from the British establishment uh there
and I'm afraid they're doing the same in
Ireland is that they want the
generations to go they want these
stories to be told long after the
victims and survivors have died so I'm
afraid we're only scratching the surface
George but hopefully we uh we will get
somewhere and and this for for example
this film should go some way to
addressing or alleviating some of the
pain that these families feel and it's
called remind us un quiet Graves un
quiet Graves look forward to that's out
in September Sean Murray many
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thanks and now it's your turn to tell us
what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling gu so with
the French presidential election just
around the corner we've got left Center
Right Far Right candidates white
Spectrum but online they seem to all go
for you know the Friends Jeremy Corbin
Richard Wyatt sends us a picture of him
in the Obama Style with the title espir
well the thing is he cannot win alone uh
there are other candidates of the left
and he has to make a union of the left
melan Shan Who is the candidate I like
best he has at least 10% he's also in
the race yeah he yeah and he he has at
least 10% of the vote uh Hammon has
about 20% in order to get to 30 and have
a chance of being in the final ballot he
has to make this he has to reach out to
melanon and I I hope that he will that
would then be worth it and would have a
Fighting Chance well that's all the
tweets we have for today which alas
means that's the end of The Show by but
you can stay in touch with us on social
media Twitter and Instagram rtor Sputnik
or Facebook Sputnik on Russia today it's
goodbye from me gatri and from me George
Galloway it's been marvelous