1
00:00:02,290 --> 00:00:06,269
[Music]

2
00:00:08,850 --> 00:00:17,839
[Music]

3
00:00:13,839 --> 00:00:17,839
okay I

4
00:00:19,690 --> 00:00:29,109
[Music]

5
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:41,280
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

6
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,879
with me George Galloway and me gatri

7
00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:46,640
that the British state may soon cease to

8
00:00:43,879 --> 00:00:49,399
exist lose half of its land mass and

9
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:52,480
much of its luster is a pretty big story

10
00:00:49,399 --> 00:00:55,120
getting remarkably little coverage in

11
00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:57,559
2014 most people thought the question of

12
00:00:55,120 --> 00:01:01,160
Scottish separation had been settled

13
00:00:57,559 --> 00:01:03,640
albe it by just 55 to 4 5% in the

14
00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,960
independence referendum certainly the

15
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:08,119
Scottish government had been at pains to

16
00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:10,759
say that this was a referendum which

17
00:01:08,119 --> 00:01:12,280
would not be repeated for a generation

18
00:01:10,759 --> 00:01:14,920
everything comes around more quickly

19
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,080
nowadays a generation turned out to be a

20
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,920
couple of short football seasons and the

21
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:23,400
SNP government is currently Consulting

22
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,759
on Indie ref 2 the approximate cause of

23
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,119
the second in a generation referenda is

24
00:01:25,759 --> 00:01:30,439
brexit for which anything from leaves on

25
00:01:28,119 --> 00:01:33,040
the line to a shortage of mar might is

26
00:01:30,439 --> 00:01:35,360
blamed Scotland voted to remain in the

27
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,640
European Union the Scottish government

28
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,079
wants to leave the British Union to join

29
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,640
the European joining us now is our

30
00:01:40,079 --> 00:01:44,600
Caledonian correspondent a lawyer and a

31
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,479
regular contributor to the Royal and

32
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,880
ancient Scottish newspaper the Scotsman

33
00:01:47,479 --> 00:01:53,320
he's Robert McGregor sometimes known as

34
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:56,560
Rob Roy at least by me Robert thanks for

35
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:59,000
joining us let's deal with the obvious

36
00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:01,880
contradiction between what Alex Ammon

37
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:04,360
was saying throughout the 2014

38
00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,439
referendum that this is the last chance

39
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,399
for a

40
00:02:05,439 --> 00:02:12,520
generation and now beginning last year

41
00:02:08,399 --> 00:02:15,200
in 2016 Consulting on a on a second

42
00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:17,920
referendum on the face of it that just

43
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:20,480
won't wash well interestingly you

44
00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:22,560
mentioned Alex salmon I actually think

45
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:25,360
it's Alex sammon that's maybe pushing

46
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,959
nicar studing for this referendum it's

47
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,280
an important point to make that nicar

48
00:02:26,959 --> 00:02:30,400
ston has only been the leader in the

49
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,319
first min

50
00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,480
for just over two years so I think

51
00:02:33,319 --> 00:02:38,400
sturgeon was playing a long game she

52
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:41,200
wanted to wait until she knew she would

53
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,200
definitely win the next referendum

54
00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,440
because if she loses another one the S

55
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:49,280
SMP lose another one that is it finished

56
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:51,000
for a generation um before when they had

57
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:54,760
the referendum in

58
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:57,239
2014 the akiri hill was a currency issue

59
00:02:54,760 --> 00:03:00,080
wanting to leave the state but still

60
00:02:57,239 --> 00:03:02,840
using the currency and still relying on

61
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,920
their Bank as a lender of Last Resort

62
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,519
this time I think they've got two Air's

63
00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:10,440
H one they've still got the currency

64
00:03:07,519 --> 00:03:13,080
issue but actually in fact it's more

65
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:15,680
challenging this thing because now

66
00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:19,159
you've got one state wanting to leave

67
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:21,840
the EU one state wanting to remain so

68
00:03:19,159 --> 00:03:24,920
the idea that you use the same currency

69
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:27,480
and you use the same bank as a lender of

70
00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:31,480
Last Resort is is fantasy stuff to be

71
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:34,760
honest with you but the second is he is

72
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:38,120
actually the economic H circumstances in

73
00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:39,760
Scotland at the moment if you look at

74
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,200
what's happening just now with the oil

75
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,480
price compared to the white paper and

76
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:49,000
the white papers quote in

77
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:51,159
2014 it has fallen uh dramatically and

78
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:54,159
this is having an adverse impact in so

79
00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:58,360
many areas of the Scottish economy if

80
00:03:54,159 --> 00:04:01,720
you look at growth it is a third a third

81
00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:05,519
of what the UK averages if you look at

82
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:07,959
housing it's half what the UK average is

83
00:04:05,519 --> 00:04:11,439
and also recent figures have shown that

84
00:04:07,959 --> 00:04:13,760
unemployment is actually past the 5

85
00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:15,519
point it's up in Scotland and down in

86
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,720
England it's up the financial times says

87
00:04:15,519 --> 00:04:20,359
it it's up at

88
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:22,440
5.1% the other day so things are not

89
00:04:20,359 --> 00:04:25,639
looking good economically for a

90
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:28,080
referendum and I think that Nic sturgeon

91
00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:33,039
has been boxed into this I think her

92
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:35,120
party I think Alex salmon I mean only

93
00:04:33,039 --> 00:04:37,240
about a month ago Alex salmon gave a

94
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,840
date for the referendum before Nicholas

95
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:42,320
sturgeon even said she was going to have

96
00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:44,400
one yeah so I think she's going to have

97
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,840
one because she's almost got no choice

98
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:49,039
because they've been constantly

99
00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:50,120
threatening this all through brexit all

100
00:04:49,039 --> 00:04:53,520
all through the

101
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:55,240
negotiations and you know only a fool

102
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,080
would predict who's definitely going to

103
00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:02,039
win but if they thought it was a

104
00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:04,880
challenge saying it in 20 14 on the the

105
00:05:02,039 --> 00:05:06,720
economics well it's nothing compared to

106
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,039
at the moment well that that's uh also

107
00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:13,479
my view which would be a reason not to

108
00:05:10,039 --> 00:05:16,000
have the referendum and I'm not as

109
00:05:13,479 --> 00:05:18,759
convinced as you that it will definitely

110
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:21,240
happen because of the reasons you've

111
00:05:18,759 --> 00:05:23,280
mentioned plus this additional one

112
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,280
although the additional one merely

113
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:28,479
exacerbates the point you've already

114
00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:30,600
made if Scotland became an independent

115
00:05:28,479 --> 00:05:33,880
country and applied to join the European

116
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:36,199
Union first they'd need to get in second

117
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:41,000
they would need to as all new members

118
00:05:36,199 --> 00:05:43,720
must adopt the Euro y uh but only if

119
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:47,919
they met the convergence Criterion for

120
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:51,240
being in the Euro which would require a

121
00:05:47,919 --> 00:05:53,319
massive Wipeout of Scotland's budget

122
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,160
deficit which means effectively the

123
00:05:53,319 --> 00:05:58,039
abolition of almost all public services

124
00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,680
in Scotland I think that would be a hard

125
00:05:58,039 --> 00:06:03,720
sell in itself

126
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,520
but here's the rub in a country with 5%

127
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,160
unemployment you're going to be in the

128
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,919
EU which allows free movement of

129
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,720
European labor that's right so every

130
00:06:10,919 --> 00:06:14,199
Bulgarian in Bulgaria could come and

131
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,840
live in Scotland and compete for the

132
00:06:14,199 --> 00:06:20,360
jobs that are already in scarce Supply

133
00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:22,000
yeah that's a gigantic ask I don't know

134
00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,759
many Scottish people that would vote for

135
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:29,160
that well yeah the GDP is a massive is

136
00:06:25,759 --> 00:06:30,759
colossal it's over 9% at the moment

137
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,599
double in fact I think it might be

138
00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:37,120
actually treble what the UK is at the

139
00:06:33,599 --> 00:06:39,039
moment um the currency issue was a big

140
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,319
factor the last time and I think it's

141
00:06:39,039 --> 00:06:42,840
going to be even bigger Factor this time

142
00:06:41,319 --> 00:06:45,280
I don't think they're going to try and

143
00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:47,680
sell the pound I think they're going to

144
00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:50,240
have to adopt a new currency whether

145
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,360
it's a pound or or something else so

146
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,680
neither the pound nor the Euro no I

147
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,360
think if they try and sell the Euro I

148
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,520
think they will be defeated and it will

149
00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,960
be a bigger margin than last time

150
00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,680
because I don't think Scots fancy the

151
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,960
Euro at the moment and we need to

152
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:08,000
remember just as well the Euro the whole

153
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:10,240
Euro Zone and European Union is not

154
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,039
looking too healthy at all at the moment

155
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:18,120
you've got right when governments coming

156
00:07:12,039 --> 00:07:20,199
up and hungry uh and France NE Italy the

157
00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,960
EU might might actually fall apart

158
00:07:20,199 --> 00:07:23,879
before Scotland got a chance to join it

159
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,120
so in five years time we don't know what

160
00:07:23,879 --> 00:07:27,800
the position will be in the European

161
00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:30,160
Union you know I actually think this is

162
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:33,560
going to be win or lost on the no s side

163
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:35,479
are actually the the remain site the

164
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:38,240
last time although they

165
00:07:35,479 --> 00:07:40,720
won it was too negative they were fear

166
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,960
mongering constantly and I think they're

167
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,000
going to have to an adopt a different

168
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,440
strategy I think we can definitely win

169
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,680
the minds of the Scottish people based

170
00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,000
on what we've spoke about the economics

171
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:55,080
but we need to win the hearts to be

172
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:57,199
honest with you to win this and to lead

173
00:07:55,080 --> 00:08:00,080
this referendum I actually think they

174
00:07:57,199 --> 00:08:02,400
should go out within the political

175
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,000
I don't think they should get the leader

176
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,599
of the Scottish labor or leader of the

177
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,639
Scottish conservatives I think they need

178
00:08:06,599 --> 00:08:11,400
someone from the captains of industry

179
00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:13,280
heads of trade unions heads of Charities

180
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,319
and they need to get people involved who

181
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:18,120
are actually not solely political good

182
00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:20,560
point uh just before we leave the

183
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,479
currency Scotland once had an ancient

184
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,919
currency called the gro I don't know if

185
00:08:22,479 --> 00:08:28,039
the SNP would fancy bringing that back

186
00:08:24,919 --> 00:08:30,800
but you can't just pluck a currency out

187
00:08:28,039 --> 00:08:34,680
of thin air you know you can't it's not

188
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,760
Monopoly uh you can't just uh say right

189
00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:39,360
we're minting a new currency it has to

190
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:41,959
be based on something what would a

191
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:44,839
Scottish independent currency be based

192
00:08:41,959 --> 00:08:46,640
on well this is the thing I don't think

193
00:08:44,839 --> 00:08:49,399
they've actually I don't think it's

194
00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:52,720
feasible at all to actually start up a

195
00:08:49,399 --> 00:08:55,320
new currency set up your own bank and

196
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,519
have a lender of R yeah not not one that

197
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,720
would have any credibility

198
00:08:56,519 --> 00:09:01,720
internationally no no I mean the the

199
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:04,360
bank of uh of the the white Heather club

200
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:07,240
would not actually get much credit from

201
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:09,839
people uh abroad in my opinion what they

202
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:12,079
might do is they might actually H try

203
00:09:09,839 --> 00:09:14,079
and sell that we will still use the

204
00:09:12,079 --> 00:09:16,600
pound even if they don't even if the

205
00:09:14,079 --> 00:09:19,200
bank of England say no and try and sell

206
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:22,079
that we will go in the Euro eventually

207
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:25,160
or perhaps looking at options because we

208
00:09:22,079 --> 00:09:28,040
need to remember the SNP what we know is

209
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,880
when the referendum comes they are very

210
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:33,760
well organized very out and they've

211
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:36,320
always got good strategies in winning oh

212
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:38,920
they're a formidable political machine

213
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,320
let me turn to to the political machines

214
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:44,000
the SNP are exactly as you just

215
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:48,200
described them and Nicholas ston is uh

216
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:50,440
quite an impressive uh uh leader um the

217
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,839
Scottish conservative party are making a

218
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:55,160
comeback uh the Tor vote is up

219
00:09:52,839 --> 00:09:57,440
everywhere and they are the second party

220
00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:00,079
in the country now for someone like me

221
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:02,959
almost impossible to believe I was in

222
00:10:00,079 --> 00:10:05,399
Parliament when there were zero Tor MPS

223
00:10:02,959 --> 00:10:10,839
at all from Scotland then there was one

224
00:10:05,399 --> 00:10:15,440
taxi form um the the Scottish labor

225
00:10:10,839 --> 00:10:18,800
party is in a state of really collapse

226
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:22,360
it's uh its vote is has collapsed its

227
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:24,839
membership has collapsed and its leader

228
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:27,440
I mean is she even there she's she's

229
00:10:24,839 --> 00:10:29,920
certainly not impinging on on my

230
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,120
Consciousness this old despite J

231
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,240
the Westminister well he hasn't traveled

232
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,279
has he I mean Jeremy Corbin hasn't

233
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,639
translated into Scot this is what I

234
00:10:36,279 --> 00:10:40,360
don't understand it is is depressing at

235
00:10:38,639 --> 00:10:41,639
the moment for the Scottish labor party

236
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,880
the last time I checked the polls they

237
00:10:41,639 --> 00:10:45,880
were sitting at

238
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:49,079
15% in the local council elections this

239
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:50,160
means complete obliteration in the

240
00:10:49,079 --> 00:10:54,200
council

241
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:56,240
elections I think KZ Dale has made some

242
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,160
blunders there's absolutely no question

243
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,839
about that at all I think when she come

244
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,920
out against

245
00:10:59,839 --> 00:11:05,959
Corbin on his leadership contest against

246
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:08,000
Owen Smith was bizarre because everyone

247
00:11:05,959 --> 00:11:09,880
knew Corbin was going to win that

248
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,279
election you know there was no way that

249
00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:15,120
Owen Smith was going to win so I think

250
00:11:12,279 --> 00:11:17,480
she have just held back and said I will

251
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:21,480
support whoever wins it because what

252
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:23,600
that's happened is it's created a not

253
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:26,079
even a semi detach but it's all it's

254
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,800
created a sort of detached UK and

255
00:11:26,079 --> 00:11:30,040
Scottish labor party exactly that's how

256
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,839
it looked like and we need they need to

257
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,079
work in harmony with each other they

258
00:11:31,839 --> 00:11:36,560
need to be singing from the same H sheet

259
00:11:34,079 --> 00:11:38,800
now don't get me wrong the last H

260
00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:40,680
Scottish election I thought Scottish

261
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,519
labor were quite courageous and I

262
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:46,839
thought kesa dugdale's policy of raising

263
00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:49,600
taxes to reduce inequality was a good

264
00:11:46,839 --> 00:11:53,120
move but recently they've started

265
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:55,680
discussing talking about a new federal

266
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,639
people's convention I think that is

267
00:11:55,680 --> 00:12:01,320
playing straight into the hands of the

268
00:11:57,639 --> 00:12:03,320
SNP because the MP want Scottish labor

269
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,680
talking about the Constitution they want

270
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:08,920
them talking about more Powers they want

271
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:11,079
them discussing London Edinburgh both

272
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:14,480
parliaments I think Scottish labor need

273
00:12:11,079 --> 00:12:17,639
to stick on the NHS they need to stick

274
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:20,040
on policies which will try and reduce

275
00:12:17,639 --> 00:12:21,880
inequality and when we're just talking

276
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,639
about inequality there only this week

277
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,160
there was a report that came out and

278
00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:30,040
this is staggering

279
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:34,760
that 1% of the wealthy of Scots

280
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:38,440
own more wealth than the bottom 50% of

281
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:41,120
Scots now to try and the snp's been in

282
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,839
for the past 10 years in government and

283
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,399
there's this myth that somehow they're

284
00:12:42,839 --> 00:12:49,199
Progressive or should I dare even say

285
00:12:45,399 --> 00:12:51,959
socialist and I think that report really

286
00:12:49,199 --> 00:12:54,920
illuminates the inequality in Scotland

287
00:12:51,959 --> 00:12:57,760
at the moment Rob Roy McGregor you'll be

288
00:12:54,920 --> 00:13:01,000
back we'll be back thanks for joining us

289
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:03,320
on the Sputnik coming up next civilian

290
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,240
massacre in the Ukraine does anybody

291
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,240
care don't miss

292
00:13:08,519 --> 00:13:13,680
it welcome back to Sputnik the NATO

293
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:16,360
organized coup which overthrew the

294
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:19,360
elected president of the Ukraine Set

295
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:21,639
Fire to the Parliament and set Nazi

296
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:24,399
Marchers in their hundreds of thousands

297
00:13:21,639 --> 00:13:28,199
onto the streets was bound to lead to

298
00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:30,600
war 45% of the country are Russians

299
00:13:28,199 --> 00:13:33,639
Crimea had been a main Russian naval

300
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:36,480
port for 300 years and was given away by

301
00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:38,680
krishn one drunken night when Russia and

302
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,399
the Ukraine were both members of the

303
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:44,800
USSR eastern Ukraine where the Russian

304
00:13:41,399 --> 00:13:48,480
people live demands autonomy from Kiev

305
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:51,079
Ukrainian nationalism won't allow it cue

306
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:54,040
massive violence and bloodshed joining

307
00:13:51,079 --> 00:13:56,959
us now is top author writer and

308
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:59,959
broadcaster of the first rank Neil Clark

309
00:13:56,959 --> 00:14:03,160
Neil you've been writing and

310
00:13:59,959 --> 00:14:07,240
very powerfully on these subjects uh but

311
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:10,079
nobody's listening much in Britain uh

312
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:13,720
the narrative is the Russians are the

313
00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:17,920
bad guys in uh Ukraine how has that come

314
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:21,399
to pass and what level of of effort is

315
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:24,480
required by the rulers in Britain to

316
00:14:21,399 --> 00:14:26,079
cover up the actual truth of this story

317
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,320
it's amazing really George it's beyond

318
00:14:26,079 --> 00:14:29,160
George Orwell I think we could call it

319
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,440
orwellian but it goes way beyond that

320
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,040
because we had a lot of talk haven't we

321
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,880
in the media about the rise of the far

322
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:36,720
right in Europe we talk about Leen in

323
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:40,320
France we talk about farri groups in

324
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:44,079
Hungary and elsewhere and yet in Ukraine

325
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:46,480
uh just in 2014 you had a legal kudeta

326
00:14:44,079 --> 00:14:48,759
against a Democratic elected government

327
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:51,360
of during which the at the Forefront of

328
00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:53,360
that coup were far right neo-nazis they

329
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,920
were The Cutting Edge without the

330
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,480
violence of the far right Hitler

331
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,639
saluting hit collaborators yeah and so

332
00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,480
we have this sort of slur of calling

333
00:14:59,639 --> 00:15:03,440
people racists and fascists today which

334
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,519
has been a sort of standard technique to

335
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,320
silence people of of the genuine left

336
00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,959
has being used by the fake left against

337
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:12,360
genuine socialists and yet in Ukraine

338
00:15:09,959 --> 00:15:14,360
we've got real hardcore genuine Nazis

339
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,399
and neo-nazis marching through the

340
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,759
streets as and as I said helping to

341
00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:19,199
topple a democratically elected

342
00:15:17,759 --> 00:15:21,759
government in

343
00:15:19,199 --> 00:15:23,560
2014 and and the so-called liberal left

344
00:15:21,759 --> 00:15:25,959
turned a massive Blind Eye to it all it

345
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,600
didn't happen it wasn't there and uh

346
00:15:25,959 --> 00:15:30,440
today we've still got the same problem

347
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,959
of ultra nationalists in in the Ukraine

348
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,680
there's actually a state of emergency

349
00:15:31,959 --> 00:15:35,920
that's just been declared a state of

350
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:38,880
energy emergency because Ultra

351
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:40,639
nationalists are blockading uh coal uh

352
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,000
uh uh transfers from from the east from

353
00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:44,399
the donbass to the rest of Ukraine uh

354
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,720
because they don't want the pareno

355
00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:47,800
government to be having anything to do

356
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:51,040
with the so-call rebels in the East so

357
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:53,319
the the fact is is that uh that that

358
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,680
regime change up that coup wouldn't have

359
00:15:53,319 --> 00:15:58,360
taken place without the far right

360
00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:01,720
without the Neo nationalists and uh Nazi

361
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,160
uh support Nazi sympathizers and yet as

362
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,480
as you said in Britain and elsewhere in

363
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:09,639
the west we pretended not to see it the

364
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:12,279
coup was clearly I mean organized might

365
00:16:09,639 --> 00:16:16,720
be might be putting it too highly but it

366
00:16:12,279 --> 00:16:18,600
was certainly partly organized by by

367
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:22,639
NATO governments by the American

368
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:25,680
ambassador by by John McCain by European

369
00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:28,120
ministers who were in Ukraine marching

370
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,000
yeah for the downfall of a another

371
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,120
government y

372
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,279
we're we we're complicit in all of this

373
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,240
oh absolutely and I think uh $100

374
00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:38,079
million was earmarked really for for the

375
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,319
regime change operation for America and

376
00:16:38,079 --> 00:16:42,040
uh a key player in all of this was

377
00:16:40,319 --> 00:16:43,759
Victoria nuland at the US state

378
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,440
department and she she's a

379
00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:48,079
neoconservative her husband is Robert

380
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:50,199
Kagan who was one of the notorious uh uh

381
00:16:48,079 --> 00:16:52,240
pushers of the Iraq War so you've got

382
00:16:50,199 --> 00:16:55,399
neocon fingerprints on this operation

383
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,040
all the way through and uh you know

384
00:16:55,399 --> 00:16:58,959
you've got people like John McCain as

385
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,079
you just mentioned he went out there to

386
00:16:58,959 --> 00:17:03,160
Kev and and he dined with one of the

387
00:17:01,079 --> 00:17:06,919
most notorious far-right leaders in

388
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:09,280
Ukraine someone who talked about uh

389
00:17:06,919 --> 00:17:11,160
Menace of Jewish bolshevism in the past

390
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:14,000
yes anti-semitic comments like that

391
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:16,240
which you know if you'd had a leftist or

392
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,679
a socialist politician dining or sharing

393
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,919
a platform with somebody who'd made

394
00:17:17,679 --> 00:17:21,600
those comments and of course that would

395
00:17:18,919 --> 00:17:23,120
be totally beyond the pale and and

396
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,839
siding with fascists and they would be

397
00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:26,799
completely black B but that's not the

398
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:30,280
case with John McCain and the liberal

399
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:32,160
left too so uh really is quite amazing

400
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,000
that that this is happening here in

401
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,640
Europe happened in 2014 and it's still

402
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,880
going on it's still going on we've got

403
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:42,640
uh a state of emergency we've got a

404
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:45,520
state of War uh the donbass is under

405
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:49,400
massive Ukrainian military

406
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:51,440
bombardment uh civilian areas uh people

407
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,960
civilians old ladies lying dead in the

408
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,600
street and so on yeah we can hardly get

409
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,280
that uh on the news and when we do it's

410
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,880
through the opposite uh prison it's

411
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,320
Russian aggression it was always going

412
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,840
to yes it was always going to lead to

413
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,919
this wasn't it once they overthrew the

414
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:11,840
government yeah burned the parliament

415
00:18:08,919 --> 00:18:14,200
this the third Act was to

416
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,840
delegitimize the Russian language in the

417
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:20,120
state and to

418
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:23,919
effectively uh make enemies of at least

419
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:25,400
40% maybe 45% of their own people

420
00:18:23,919 --> 00:18:27,120
where's it all going to end well

421
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,720
absolutely I think it was all deliberate

422
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:31,039
I think that if you top all the previous

423
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,240
government which had tried to steer a

424
00:18:31,039 --> 00:18:34,280
balanced course it was a claimed to be a

425
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,640
pro-russian government it wasn't

426
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,840
particularly Pro Russian it was trying

427
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,240
to balance the the the the the political

428
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:43,039
divisions in the country and Tred to

429
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,280
represent them and uh it was obvious

430
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:46,600
that when when that government was

431
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,120
forcibly toppled and there were the uh

432
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,960
the uh discrimination against the

433
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:52,280
Russian language that the predominantly

434
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:55,080
Russian minorities in the east of the

435
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,799
country would want to have want to

436
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,840
separate and the crime of course the

437
00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,960
people voted to do that and that of

438
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,159
course is is used the referendum they

439
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,919
had in Crimea to rejoin Russia don't

440
00:19:03,159 --> 00:19:08,400
forget Crimea been part of Russia from

441
00:19:04,919 --> 00:19:10,320
1783 until 1954 you know the Democratic

442
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,480
referendum there was taken as a sign of

443
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,880
Russian aggression and Russian invasion

444
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,559
yeah and I think we got to link this in

445
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,200
with Syria too George because I think

446
00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:19,880
there was a a sort of element of wanting

447
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:22,200
to punish Russia by the neocons in in

448
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,120
the US state department for the way that

449
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,760
uh Russia had blocked regime change

450
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:29,400
plans in Syria Assad was meant to have

451
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:31,640
gone in 2013 or by 2013 the Russians as

452
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,559
we know and the Chinese blocked un

453
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,960
resolutions which would have uh given

454
00:19:33,559 --> 00:19:37,480
the cover for US military action against

455
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,600
the directly against thead government

456
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,320
The Narrative that we're hearing on

457
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,320
Ukraine the dominant narrative is false

458
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,120
it's completely the other way around the

459
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,720
aggression was from NATO and from the US

460
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:49,400
and from the EU and uh we're in very

461
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,880
dangerous Waters here because uh the the

462
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:55,240
real hardcore Hawks really would I think

463
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:57,960
welcome or want a a war with Russia I

464
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,480
think it's they would they would risk

465
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,919
what they would think be a small scale

466
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,360
war with Russia over this and of course

467
00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:05,600
this I don't think Russia does small

468
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:07,360
scale war no but this is the the

469
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,360
Viewpoint of a few of these Fanatics

470
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:13,440
they're saying look look well McCain

471
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:17,080
called this week for uh lethal defensive

472
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:18,559
Aid to uh the Ukrainian government and

473
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,480
more still more I don't know how they

474
00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:24,640
could find more but still more sanctions

475
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:28,960
uh against Russia and he's now embraced

476
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:32,320
of course uh by most of the Democrat

477
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:35,880
part there's been a fusion of the

478
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:38,720
Republican neocon Hawks and the

479
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:42,520
Democratic party and the liberal media

480
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:46,000
establishment y against Trump and so

481
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:49,240
you've got um McCain with his War talk

482
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,720
being effectively cheered and echoed by

483
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,919
the likes of Michael Moore Michael Mo

484
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,760
absolutely Michael Moore who made that

485
00:20:51,919 --> 00:20:56,039
wonderful film far 911 when he was

486
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,080
lambasting the bush era neocons he's now

487
00:20:56,039 --> 00:21:01,640
lining up with the very same Bush era

488
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:05,480
neocons to lambar Trump and of course he

489
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:07,520
said this week to Trump be gone you

490
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,960
Russian traitor yes it's incredible

491
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,640
isn't it he's in form mccarthyite mode

492
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,440
isn't he and it's really tragic to see

493
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,840
someone like him who made such good

494
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,960
films you know 10 15 years ago now

495
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,880
lining up with the most reactionary

496
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,720
aggressive far-right figures in American

497
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,679
politics and Russia's not going to back

498
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,840
sorry no just thinking that how do they

499
00:21:23,679 --> 00:21:28,679
think that the American know the normal

500
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,760
population even care you know about all

501
00:21:28,679 --> 00:21:32,400
this had going on the Russ you know the

502
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,760
Russian aggression in speak of little

503
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,799
else but the Don Bass Down in Poria yeah

504
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,240
yeah well of course it's a massive

505
00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:40,080
distraction isn't it because of course

506
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,200
and same is here because the russophobia

507
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,840
that's been pushed by the British

508
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,400
government only you know two weeks ago

509
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,799
had Michael Fallon the defense minister

510
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,960
going up to his almaat in in St Andrew's

511
00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:51,159
University in Scotland terrible speech

512
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,640
he made about the Russian aggression and

513
00:21:51,159 --> 00:21:54,960
Russia invading Ukraine yeah and of

514
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,520
course the and the students were placed

515
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,640
on their best behavior they weren't

516
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,840
allowed to

517
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,919
respond even if any of them had been uh

518
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,600
of a of a mind to yeah and the British

519
00:22:02,919 --> 00:22:06,240
government of course Georgia has been

520
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,360
the British have been out there to try

521
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,120
to convince Donald Trump not to go soft

522
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,520
on Russia so the British are playing a

523
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,799
very pentious role in all of this well

524
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:17,320
the the Russians are not going to back

525
00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:19,520
down so what's next do you think the the

526
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,480
World Cup is the next uh the next

527
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,279
propaganda offensive it is the next and

528
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,520
I think we've already seen BBC programs

529
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:27,520
coming on about Russian Football

530
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,720
Hooligans there was one coming on uh uh

531
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:32,960
um tonight or last week I think going to

532
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,320
be repeated uh and uh this is going to

533
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,320
build up as my prediction is going to

534
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,520
build up over the year because the last

535
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,039
thing are they destroying public

536
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,520
property like the English Hooligans

537
00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:41,760
exactly yes well I mean obviously there

538
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,840
Hooligans in Russia there football

539
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,559
Hooligans like there is everywhere but

540
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,760
this is now it's kind of Relentless

541
00:22:45,559 --> 00:22:51,320
isn't it Geor it's like it's of

542
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:54,039
247 uh negative news about Russia and

543
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,440
Putin we we we hear we and we had talk

544
00:22:54,039 --> 00:22:57,080
about fake news of course the biggest

545
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,880
example of fake news in the last 12

546
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,240
months has been the story of Russian

547
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:04,600
Hack in the American hack into the which

548
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:06,559
has unproven the hack and wasn't Russian

549
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,880
yeah with all respect to my Dutch wife

550
00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:11,120
we're told in the newspapers this week

551
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,240
the Russians are trying to fix the

552
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:15,120
Netherlands general

553
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,520
election of course they got the German

554
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:19,080
one to do and they got the French

555
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:22,360
defense Germany okay France okay but why

556
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:25,000
would Russia bother trying to rig the

557
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:29,080
Netherlands election it's an elector of

558
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:31,080
2.6 million voters something like well

559
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,679
Putin he's all over the place isn't he

560
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,000
he's interfering left right and Center

561
00:23:32,679 --> 00:23:37,080
he's so it really I mean he's laughable

562
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,200
in a way we can laugh about it yeah you

563
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:43,039
laugh or you cry yeah Neil Clark always

564
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,039
a pleasure thanks for joining us on the

565
00:23:45,159 --> 00:23:49,400
spck and now it's your turn to tell us

566
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,520
what you think through the portals of

567
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:55,200
social media what's rattling gy so I

568
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,880
asked will Scotland undergo IND the ref

569
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,640
2 and the Scottish referendum thing

570
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:03,960
seems to always way caused his bus so

571
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:06,480
lots of uh response on that and Ashok

572
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:10,000
for example says when there's debate but

573
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:12,120
no dates H and Bob Smith Walker says I'm

574
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,159
a big supporter of G but with a

575
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:18,120
hankering for Indie well first of all

576
00:24:15,159 --> 00:24:20,200
Alex salmon announced the date uh

577
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,840
although Nicholas sturgeon hasn't even

578
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,360
yet decided that there's definitely

579
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:28,120
going to be a referendum so there seems

580
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:30,520
to be some sign of tension at the top of

581
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:34,080
the SNP between the former leader and

582
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:36,399
the current leader my guess I may be

583
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:39,080
wrong is that there will not be a second

584
00:24:36,399 --> 00:24:41,960
Independence referendum because I'm

585
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,520
absolutely certain that that they would

586
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:48,480
lose it and they cannot afford to lose

587
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:51,080
it they have to keep a strategy of maybe

588
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:54,200
probably uh going for as long as

589
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,960
possible unless people get uh tired of

590
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,679
that uh look I'm not against

591
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,600
Independence in all circumstances and

592
00:24:58,679 --> 00:25:02,760
I'm in favor of having this second

593
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,679
referendum because I'm sure that I'm

594
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:08,080
going to win it uh but uh there could be

595
00:25:05,679 --> 00:25:09,960
circumstances I mean if you told me the

596
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,039
Tories were going to be in power in

597
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:15,240
England

598
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:17,240
forever well to I'd have to look again

599
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,360
but if you told me Jeremy Corbin has a

600
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:22,000
chance of being the prime minister of

601
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:25,080
Britain including Scotland I'd rather

602
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,039
have that better absolutely and that's

603
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,679
all the tweets that we have for today

604
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:30,279
which alas means that's the the end of

605
00:25:28,679 --> 00:25:33,159
the show but you can stay in touch with

606
00:25:30,279 --> 00:25:36,120
us on social media Twitter and Instagram

607
00:25:33,159 --> 00:25:38,559
rtor Sputnik or Facebook Sputnik on

608
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,640
Russia today it's goodbye for me gri and

609
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:42,100
from me George Galloway it's been

610
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:50,339
marvelous

611
00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:50,339
[Music]