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I

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welcome to a special Westminster edition

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of Sputnik orbiting the world with me

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George Galloway the reason is obvious

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all bets are off all plans scrapped when

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Tesa May announced that at

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11:15 she was going to make a statement

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outside number 10 Downing Street I for

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one had no doubt well I had a slight

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cintilla of doubt it was either a

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general election or it was another war

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and these days who knows which of those

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two it would be as some wag put it this

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morning polling stations are sometimes

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used as primary schools the country has

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been going back and back and back to the

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polls particularly in the north of

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Ireland or in Scotland there seems no

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end to the number of polls but does more

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mean better are we going to get better

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governance in Britain now that the fixed

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term Parliament act has been scrapped

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and we're going to the polls on June the

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eth well the first ball has been kicked

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all the players and parties are in

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action so who better to ruminate about

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it all with me than my old friend Steve

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Norris Steve is a former conservative

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government Minister twice stood for the

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Tores to be mayor of London he's a wise

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man and a fine one and I'm glad he's

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joined me on the Sputnik I've got to be

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blunt I believe that this rushed

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election has more to do with internal

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problems for the conservative party than

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it does for the country what would you

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say to that I think there's no doubt

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about it that um Theresa May thinks that

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she's going to get at least two things

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out of this election firstly she looks

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at Labor's weakness you know there are

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many people who say that there was one

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single word that summed up her very

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considerable change of heart because

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until recently as you as you know she's

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been saying

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absolutely five times we're not going to

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have an election suddenly we're going to

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have an

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election when the labor party is now

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according to poll's 24 points behind the

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conservatives I think the logic you know

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becomes absolutely unassailable and and

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you know as kan's John mayard Kan said

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when the facts change I changed my

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opinions um but there also true that

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she's concerned about the extent to

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which with her current very slim

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majority she could be Boxed In by some

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of the ultra rightwing uh levers in her

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party that is those who are very very

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keen to see a complete break with the

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European Union indeed almost a complete

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break with Europe an absolute ban on

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migration for a number of years which

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they see as somehow encouraging our

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economy whereas some of us think it

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would be disastrous and she will get out

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of this what she's looking for out of

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this is the kind of majority which a

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gives her a mandate of her own something

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that she hasn't had until now and B

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gives her the room to be able to manage

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her own party now when you're faced with

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those two opportunities and an

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opposition who really does seem to be

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incredibly weak right now I think

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frankly the logic became unassailable

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well we we'll come to the polls and

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labor and Corbin uh later I just entered

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the caveat that there have been many

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polls that have turned out to be

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disastrous

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wrong I sat over the river in the uh RT

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Studios the only man it would appear in

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Britain who believed that brexit was

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going to win and at one stage the

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betting Merchants were saying it was a

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90% certainty that we were going to

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remain in the EU I sat in this studio as

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they started the count in the United

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States apparently the only man in

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Britain who thought that Donald Trump

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was going to win so um of course things

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can change especially in a long election

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yeah but let me put to you something

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that only Channel 4 News has really been

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running with it appears that the

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prosecuting authorities are poised to

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make recommendations which would involve

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the prosecution of conservative election

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uh Wallas including it said some MPS for

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overspending or rather under recording

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their spending in the 2015 General ction

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opening up the possibility that there

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might have been a series of byelections

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upon conviction if convicted uh which

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would have whittled away that very

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narrow majority do you think there's

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anything in

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that I you and I know and I mean you and

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I amongst very few people know just how

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ludicrous our rules are about how much

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you can spend in elections but for

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perhaps for those who aren't familiar

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it's worth just saying that individual

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uh candidates have very very tight

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spending limits which they must not

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exceed if you're seen to have exceeded

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that very tight spending limit by even a

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few pounds you can be in jail uh and

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it's happened before and it could have

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happened in any of these cases I don't

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know the details and I wouldn't want to

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neither but nonetheless primer fasy

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there was a case to be made But the

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irony is that in this comp in this

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country the national parties are able to

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spend whatever they like there is no

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limit whatever on their spend spending

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budgets and they spend 20 million 30

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million on general elections this is

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getting more and more like the United

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States in those in those terms and what

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we're really we as individuals can spend

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only 13,000 as individuals 420 4 40p and

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if you spend 50p you're in trouble you

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know so I think a lot of this was about

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in practice it was about for example the

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national party leader or you know big

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beast of the of of the particular party

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roll into town into a particular

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constituency do a lot of campaigning for

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the day and then leave and the question

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really was does that mean that the local

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MP had to account for that money that

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cost if you like as part of his or her

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budget or was that part of the national

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budget and of course the

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argument the defense if you like would

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have been don't be ridiculous of course

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you know because the law is so opaque to

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if there if there aren't any cases they

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should stand for you because you've made

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uh you've made a very strong and defense

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and one which I agree with but

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nonetheless the law is the law and if

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prosecutions had ensued and we'll know

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in a day or two whether they will that

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would have been a severe problem for it

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would have been a problem but I'm not

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sure I follow your logic when you say

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that that would have Whitted a majority

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because that's on the assumption that a

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new candidate from the same party

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wouldn't have simply won the seat when

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actually all of the background noise

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would have been whatever the courts have

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decided you and I know this is a stitch

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up you know and actually I suspect the

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vast majority of those candidates would

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have seen their successes reelected well

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look if that law was an ass and I think

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we're in agreement that it was what

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about the fixed term Parliament act we

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supposed to be locked into a fiveyear

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parliament that didn't last long well

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you and I know that um when I was uh

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parliamentary private secretary in the

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home office the then Home Secretary

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introduced a piece legislation called

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the dangerous dogs act I'm not going to

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tell viewers a lot about the dangerous

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dogs act but basically I've decided that

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trying to legislate to tell a dog what

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to do is a pretty pointless proposition

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it's been known as one of the darest

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acts the Tor government ever introduced

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and alongside that I think goes the

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fixed term Parliament act you know I

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used to say to people forget all this

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business of a two-thirds majority a

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simple majority could simply abolish the

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act and had Theresa May for whatever

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reason found that it was NE necessary to

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invoke that proposition should have

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easily done so you can sweep any act off

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the statute book If by a simple majority

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in the House of Commons by one vote if

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necessary no it was pointless it was a s

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to Nick CLE during the days of the

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Coalition and it's rightly been

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consigned to history we don't operate

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that system because if a prime minister

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as you well know if a prime minister

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loses the confidence of the House of

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Commons he or she is bound to resign and

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is bound on that basis of losing a vote

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of confidence to go to the country and

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to dissolve

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parliament now we found a rare uh

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measure of agreement uh so far let me

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throw one in that we might not agree on

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I think Tesa May's announcement that she

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would not face the others in televised

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debates might be a leite motif running

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through this election frit

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scared cowardly even and certainly not

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Democratic hiding away from the

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electorate hoping that the tide which

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she imagines to be there will sweep her

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in that may turn out to be a very

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considerable mistake it may actually it

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may because you're right about that sort

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of light Motif which obviously all the

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opposition parties will try to underpin

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it's worth reflecting though that uh you

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know Tony Blair for example never

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indulged in a TV debate and the read

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reason he didn't was he said I'm way in

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the lead I can only lose and of course

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it was Gordon Brown ironically who first

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agreed uh I'm I'm least qualified to do

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so your your word's not mine George but

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I'm not far away from you and then of

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course David Cameron who was in and not

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in uh was going to do it they're not

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going to do it then tried to dictate

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terms then got dictated to and was all a

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bit of a dog's breakfast it's pretty

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typical of Theresa to say look I am far

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away in the lead I have nothing to gain

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and everything to lose by indulging in

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this piece of Television which is not

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nothing to do with the real issues in

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front of the country I'm not going to do

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it unfortunately I agree with you that

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that gives the opportunity to the

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opposition all the opposition parties to

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play this frit card if you like and

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where will that end up you know in all

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honesty I don't know this could end up

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defining any future election as one in

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which you simply have to

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participate if I take your point that

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these are new things televised

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relatively in the UK although in an age

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where a day is a long time in politics

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people think it's always been the case

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that contenders for power

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appear against each other in front of

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the cameras yeah but what if the TV

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companies have

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the if I may put it that way to go ahead

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with the debates and empty chair the

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Prime Minister the leader of the

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conservative party or do a Roy

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hattersley and put a some some uh uh

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some kind of Icon there instead that's

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going to be a big problem for the Tories

275
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well it could be but then again don't

276
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remember don't forget that she'll have

277
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an opportunity to put her side of the

278
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case as well she'll say this is

279
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irrelevant this is only done for

280
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,720
television it it adds nothing I will be

281
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speaking that night in front of an

282
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audience uh and uh if a camera would

283
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like to come and record what I say that

284
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is my pitch to the British people I'm

285
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not here to Pander to some TV channel I

286
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am talking direct to the British people

287
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you know is that convincing enough I

288
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don't know I'm genuinely not sure I

289
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would have said to her do it do it for

290
00:12:03,639 --> 00:12:07,600
goodness sake and what's more do it the

291
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way they like because you're going to

292
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:14,040
win anyway it's not exactly as if our

293
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adversaries are wonderful orators

294
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wonderful debators yeah yeah we're

295
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talking Jeremy Corbin Tim Fon I suppose

296
00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:24,360
maybe the nationalists would squeeze in

297
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for one or two although that might be

298
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problematic I myself think it's quite a

299
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significant mistake and one that will ha

300
00:12:30,199 --> 00:12:34,760
her uh through the campaign we got to

301
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take a break now but we're all lucky

302
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:41,199
that you can stay for the second half

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let's tour the opposition horiz on this

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is a special Westminster edition of

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Sputnik orbiting the world with me

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George Galloway we'll be right

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back welcome back to Sputnik orbiting

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the world with me George Galloway

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special Westminster Edition in the wake

310
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of the prime minister's surprising call

311
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for a general election on June the 8th

312
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I'm joined by Tori Grande who's never

313
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had the garlands that he deserves but a

314
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former Minister former Tor meel

315
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candidate here in London and an all

316
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:22,959
around wise guy and good one uh Steve

317
00:13:20,199 --> 00:13:26,600
Trea May is up against as you pointed

318
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out an opposition at the lowest levels

319
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predicted to get the lowest

320
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parliamentary representation since

321
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1935 yeah but just like Trump there is a

322
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:44,120
possibility that Jeremy Corbin might as

323
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:46,320
it were set the country a light with

324
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expectation with possibility there's a

325
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lot of anti-tory feeling particularly in

326
00:13:48,839 --> 00:13:54,600
poor places post-industrial places uh

327
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parts of the Kingdom which are far from

328
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her home couny kind of uh appeal do you

329
00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:03,639
disc that possibility entirely uh no you

330
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,279
know you talked about how you were the

331
00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:07,399
only person who thought that we'd leave

332
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the EU and and the only person who

333
00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:11,680
thought we'd elect Donald Trump I won a

334
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,839
lot of money on the EU referendum

335
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:16,279
unfortunately I lost the lot on Trump so

336
00:14:13,839 --> 00:14:18,480
don't ask me however I do remember John

337
00:14:16,279 --> 00:14:20,800
Howard John Howard the Australian

338
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,279
Premier who uh found himself in a

339
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,959
position where he was way ahead in the

340
00:14:22,279 --> 00:14:28,000
opinion polls his party just won a

341
00:14:24,959 --> 00:14:30,880
surprisingly good byelection he decided

342
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:33,800
to go to the country and 5 Weeks Later

343
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:36,759
was ousted by a labor Administration

344
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:39,199
which actually won 75 out of 125 seats

345
00:14:36,759 --> 00:14:41,440
in their low house I mean in other words

346
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:43,839
these surprises can happen so do I

347
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,759
discount it completely no and I think

348
00:14:43,839 --> 00:14:49,040
would be foolish for anybody ever to do

349
00:14:45,759 --> 00:14:52,079
so uh Jeremy Corbin has surprised many

350
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:54,480
many people already uh when he was uh

351
00:14:52,079 --> 00:14:58,360
finally included in the lineup for the

352
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:59,680
labor leadership alongside such Titans

353
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,440
as Andy

354
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:06,199
you know never known to

355
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:07,920
CLW from the jaws of Victory Burnham or

356
00:15:06,199 --> 00:15:09,639
I Cooper or whatever he surprised

357
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,600
everybody I suspect by winning and

358
00:15:09,639 --> 00:15:15,120
winning margin 200 to one and won by a

359
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,880
clear margin so do I discount it no I

360
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:21,240
don't however I think what's interesting

361
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:25,800
is the way that Dynamics have changed um

362
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:27,639
Theresa May has won a grudging respect

363
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,720
even from people who are not natural

364
00:15:27,639 --> 00:15:35,920
Tories and it's to do think with her

365
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:39,560
personal character she's uh pretty tough

366
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:42,880
uh she is not given to sound bites she

367
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:47,079
is thought of as somebody who tells it

368
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:48,680
as it is uh she's even able I suspect to

369
00:15:47,079 --> 00:15:50,360
persuade people that even though she

370
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,519
said I'm not going to have an election

371
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,199
I'm not going to have election I'm not

372
00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:56,600
you know and so on many times over and

373
00:15:54,199 --> 00:15:58,279
then says I am she's able to persuade

374
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,079
people that somehow this is consistent

375
00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:01,839
with the line that she's taking and

376
00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:03,440
that's quite a that's quite a trick I

377
00:16:01,839 --> 00:16:05,519
think the last person we saw with that

378
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,959
kind of ability was was of course Tony

379
00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:09,759
Blair and prior to that Margaret

380
00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:12,560
Thatcher neither John Major nor Gordon

381
00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:15,399
Brown nor David Cameron had that ability

382
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,800
and so I suspect this will be more than

383
00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:20,279
ever about

384
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:23,240
personalities about who do you want to

385
00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:25,800
lead us in this uncertain time when we

386
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,360
are facing a brexit negotiation which is

387
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,720
either going to go very well or very

388
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:32,040
badly and it's worth therefore I think

389
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:35,000
more reflecting on the time when for

390
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,399
example Michael Foot Led the labor party

391
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,240
and you will remember this very very

392
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:42,800
well indeed and again it became a choice

393
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:45,839
between Thatcher who had just apparently

394
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,240
personally won the Forkland war and

395
00:16:45,839 --> 00:16:49,240
Michael thought he was seen as

396
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,800
completely out of touch and you know far

397
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,880
too old from another world and from

398
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:55,519
another world but I'll tell you what

399
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,519
something about Corbin he's and I think

400
00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:59,600
you know this he's a good and honest

401
00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:02,480
person he's sincere

402
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,199
he has principles and the one thing he's

403
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,079
good at he's not that great in the House

404
00:17:04,199 --> 00:17:08,400
of Commons though he's got better the

405
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:10,720
one thing he's good at is out there on

406
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:13,400
the street and that's where his election

407
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:16,000
will be fought it is possible that he

408
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,520
can capture the Z guys capture the

409
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:22,319
imagination against a rather straight

410
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:24,280
laced Tory leadership and Tory campaign

411
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:27,480
I I I can't disagree with that George I

412
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:30,200
think that's right I mean he uh uh he is

413
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,880
a he's I mean I've known him for the 30

414
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,320
odd years uh not as long as you but I've

415
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,200
I've certainly known him as a fellow

416
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,840
member of the House of Commons he is

417
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:42,360
clearly um a man of integrity uh he's a

418
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,880
man who sticks by his principles uh he's

419
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:47,160
a man who uh tells it the way he sees it

420
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,160
and not the way he's told to see it I I

421
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,960
get all that and I also get the fact

422
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,000
that he's good on the stump I mean he I

423
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:56,559
saw him out in cuden which is a swing

424
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,080
seat yesterday and he was full of fire

425
00:17:56,559 --> 00:17:59,440
and vigor and I think he'll go on doing

426
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,039
that during the election man he's no

427
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,480
Michael foot in that

428
00:18:01,039 --> 00:18:05,640
context it's also true that Mrs mayor is

429
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,640
not a great natural oror not by any

430
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,080
means she's more comfortable reading a

431
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,960
speech than she is extemporizing and I

432
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,640
always think that I mean you can do this

433
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,120
and I like think I used to be able to do

434
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,640
it you know to extemporize is to is to

435
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:20,720
have been seen to be speaking from the

436
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:23,039
heart so can this have a big impact yes

437
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:25,919
it could I think the problem that jemy

438
00:18:23,039 --> 00:18:28,120
Corbin has however is that his

439
00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:30,600
opposition is mainly from his own party

440
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:32,640
yeah yeah this full of holes his back is

441
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,240
full of holes this is a man who has MPS

442
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,440
in his own party saying we're going to

443
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,600
stand as a labor candidate but we would

444
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:41,880
never vote for him as a prime minister

445
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:44,559
quite unprecedented unprecedented now

446
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:47,120
the Liberals on the face of it were dead

447
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:50,000
and buried in 2015 brexit has

448
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:52,480
undoubtedly given them some more wind in

449
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,320
their sales how much we shall see but

450
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:59,360
they are running unequivocally as the

451
00:18:55,320 --> 00:19:02,120
second referendum people try to Scupper

452
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:07,159
brexit and if we can't Scupper it make

453
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:09,720
it as moderate uh break as uh possible

454
00:19:07,159 --> 00:19:12,440
48% of the people voted to remain in the

455
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:15,200
EU so that's a potential vote Bank of

456
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,799
some importance if people all got behind

457
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,280
the Liberals what do you think of that

458
00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:21,600
well I remember Zack Goldsmith who for

459
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,200
completely separate reasons resigned and

460
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,080
put himself up for re-election that was

461
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,400
over the issue of building a third

462
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,280
Runway at e row but nonetheless uh it

463
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,440
was immediately after a Time when he had

464
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:34,400
voted to leave his father of course

465
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,880
famously uh founded the referendum party

466
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:39,600
and and so his views are very clear but

467
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:42,440
his constituents were overwhelmingly uh

468
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,080
forain and they ditched him and that was

469
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,080
because the libdems were able to say

470
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,919
well we of course our remainers and we

471
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,840
will stick up for you and we represent

472
00:19:47,919 --> 00:19:52,840
you and who's to say what impact that

473
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:56,120
will have I have a sneaking suspicion

474
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:58,200
that um there will be a few liberal wins

475
00:19:56,120 --> 00:20:00,760
against Tories in seats that they

476
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:03,640
previously held and it will be on that

477
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:07,480
basis however again you know I really do

478
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:10,080
sense that time has moved on um every

479
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:14,120
poll tells us that many people who did

480
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:16,640
vote remain are now resigned to the

481
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:18,320
Democratic vote that's my own experience

482
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,880
and then they're saying okay so who's

483
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,240
going to be best to negotiate the best

484
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,760
deal for us and it's not Tim faren you

485
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,440
know in the end you and I know it's the

486
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,720
one thing that unites all Tores and all

487
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,120
labor politicians is that the libdems

488
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,919
the most cynical party in British

489
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:33,760
politics yes everyone hates that we all

490
00:20:31,919 --> 00:20:35,559
hate the liberal Democrats it's a it's a

491
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,640
famous sport in this country but it has

492
00:20:35,559 --> 00:20:41,679
some Merit as well I I predict uh here

493
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:44,760
that they they'll go from eight to uh

494
00:20:41,679 --> 00:20:46,640
certainly double figures maybe 30 or so

495
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,480
maybe 20 maybe

496
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,679
30 but Mrs May of course banks on the

497
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:54,960
idea that she will more than make up the

498
00:20:51,679 --> 00:20:57,080
difference in areas where we as a party

499
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,320
the conservatives haven't necessarily

500
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,880
been prominent for a gener

501
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,919
it was significant to me that she

502
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:06,000
appeared yesterday in Bolton MH uh in

503
00:21:03,919 --> 00:21:08,960
what is now a labor seat but was a Tory

504
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,720
seat back in the '90s and she sees us

505
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,039
able to win that kind of a seat now

506
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,159
that's quite a pitch of course Jeremy

507
00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:16,840
was in uh Jeremy Corbin was in C in a

508
00:21:15,159 --> 00:21:18,760
seat that is now held by a Tor but is

509
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,960
pretty marginal he too is looking to be

510
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,120
able to shift that one but I think her

511
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:25,000
view is that yes there'll be a bit of

512
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,760
collateral damage from the lib demems

513
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:30,760
but it'll be more than overtaken by the

514
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:33,400
seats that she wins in places where the

515
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,880
sense is among labor voters that we've

516
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,919
always been labor but we can't vote for

517
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,159
Jeremy Corbin as a leader now this

518
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:41,279
decent honorable man that you and I have

519
00:21:40,159 --> 00:21:44,720
just

520
00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:46,640
discussed faces that huge huge problem

521
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:50,720
of credibility as a leader well we'll

522
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:52,120
see uh what about uh ukip who uh are

523
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,039
between well I don't know if they're

524
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:56,880
between leaders I think nutal is still

525
00:21:54,039 --> 00:21:58,880
the leader uh Nigel farage is clearly

526
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,320
the leader but he's over the water and

527
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:04,039
we don't know if he's going to run uh

528
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:06,600
again are you kept done and dusted do

529
00:22:04,039 --> 00:22:09,279
you think is there historic achievement

530
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,960
to have got the referendum to have seen

531
00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:13,640
it go their way and that many people

532
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,080
think there's not really that much

533
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:19,120
further point for them I think uh Mrs

534
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:21,520
Mayer shot their Fox uh although she was

535
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:24,360
a remainer technically if what maybe

536
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,240
somewhat reluctantly uh after the vote

537
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:28,039
and when she was elected as uh or

538
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,400
appointed almost as leader of the Tory

539
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:33,080
party she made that famous uh

540
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,120
wonderfully delic comment brexit means

541
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,559
brexit we could have a whole program

542
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:38,159
discussing what that means but

543
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:40,360
nonetheless it's there you know what it

544
00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:42,840
did say was I'm not going to overturn

545
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:44,200
this we are going to leave and I am

546
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,400
going to get the best deal that I can

547
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,919
for the UK and everything that she said

548
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,520
after that is really simply making

549
00:22:48,919 --> 00:22:53,000
ukip's position frankly now irrelevant

550
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,039
they'll of course say are well we've got

551
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,520
to hold their feet to the fire and so on

552
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:59,400
but a the present leader Paul nut all is

553
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,159
frankly incredible

554
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,520
H and I mean that in the sense that so

555
00:23:01,159 --> 00:23:05,840
far we can't believe a word he says and

556
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,120
B that Nigel farage may or may not

557
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,400
decide to stand in thanet South a seat

558
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:11,960
that he's fought and lost in before

559
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,080
whether he does or not he's not going to

560
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,240
be as prominent or frankly have the same

561
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,440
case to make as he was able to make in

562
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:21,200
2015 so you Kip for me not surprising

563
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,679
that the increased lead that the Tories

564
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,520
got in recent bills all came not at the

565
00:23:23,679 --> 00:23:29,360
expense of labor but actually at the

566
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:33,360
expense of finally then many people

567
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:35,279
thought initially not I but many thought

568
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:39,600
that Mrs May is going for a bigger

569
00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:41,720
majority to drive through a hard brexit

570
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,400
I think the opposite I think she wants

571
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:47,760
to have a mandate and have enough

572
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:51,400
Hinterland around her that she can make

573
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:54,279
the deal and her instincts as a as a

574
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,880
remainer in fact are likely to see

575
00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:59,279
Britain negotiate more of a sweetheart

576
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:02,559
deal with the EU rather than than uh the

577
00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:05,320
break that the brexiteers perhaps

578
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:07,600
imagined I couldn't agree more in simple

579
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:10,159
terms I couldn't agree more you know

580
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,679
speaking of somebody who voted to leave

581
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:13,440
I believe that we should take back

582
00:24:11,679 --> 00:24:15,000
control of our borders and our laws I

583
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,559
believe that we should be acting in the

584
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,799
interest of the British people

585
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:20,880
unequivocally I dislike unelected

586
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:22,760
bureaucracies being able to dictate to a

587
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,440
national to a country that still calls

588
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,919
itself a country but for example taking

589
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,640
back control of our borders is not going

590
00:24:26,919 --> 00:24:31,240
to mean closing them unless we really do

591
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,679
want to commit economic suicide we need

592
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,840
migrants this country will need migrants

593
00:24:33,679 --> 00:24:38,120
for the foreseeable future to deal with

594
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,520
the expansion in our economy we're still

595
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:43,320
the fastest growing economy in the G7

596
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,640
now you know Mrs May precisely as you

597
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,840
say is not going to get reelected in

598
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,000
order to push some kind of let's split

599
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,799
each other's lip kind of um you know

600
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,960
conclusion with the EU on the contrary

601
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:57,720
it's precisely to say you don't want

602
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,520
tariffs neither do we we want to take

603
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,200
back control our borders and our laws

604
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,799
but a we're going to keep 90% of the

605
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,919
laws and B we're certainly not going to

606
00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:08,520
close the borders why would we do it it

607
00:25:04,919 --> 00:25:10,799
would be insane and it's that Ultra

608
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,720
remainer Ultra lever rather excuse me

609
00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:15,919
Ultra lever part of the Tory party in

610
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,840
Parliament that she wants to di diminish

611
00:25:15,919 --> 00:25:20,200
the influence of by getting a much

612
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,360
bigger majority in her own name Steve

613
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,679
Norris it's been uh fantastic

614
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:29,039
fascinating talking to you Steve Norris

615
00:25:24,679 --> 00:25:32,720
Tori Grande touring the Horizon with me

616
00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:35,799
as we get the 2017 British general

617
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:40,240
election underway I hope you've enjoyed

618
00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:40,240
the show it's been marvelous