3 I get
welcome to Sputnik with me well you know
who I am I'm celebrating my first one
100 days in office and I thought it
would be a beautiful thing yes a
beautiful beautiful thing to host
Sputnik no Donald it wouldn't be
beautiful at all I'm new Clark and I am
hosting Sputnik standing in for Georg
and gatri in these interesting political
times last June North Korea's State
media hailed Donald Trump yes him again
as a farsighted presidential candidate
it's unlikely they're saying the same
thing now Trump's gunboat diplomacy and
the threats of military action against
pongyang have contributed greatly to
increased tensions the US is demanded
that North Korea ends its missile tests
but the leadership of the communist
state remains defiant for the top
official warning this week that its
nuclear test would never stop could we
be heading for a major military
confrontation
or even World War III or is it all just
saber rling from a US president Keen to
gain the approval of foreign policy
Hawks back home joining me now to
discuss the latest developments is the
leading North Korea and China expert
Keith Bennett Keith welcome on board the
Sputnik good to be back well thanks well
let's talk about North Korea now this
developing situation the headlines today
again more us threats to pyang we had
the North Korean artillery test
yesterday we hear about the US sending
an anti-missile radar system system to
South Korea which the Chinese aren't too
happy about are we heading inevitably
towards a a war here or is it just saber
rattling from a president who just wants
to keep the Hawks happy back at home I
think it's more than saber rattling I
think it's a very dangerous situation
but I don't think that war is an
evitable uh I think the first thing one
has to bear in mind about this is that
uh in the west a lot of this is
presented as today's crisis or or at
most it's presented as a crisis uh that
began when North Korea began its own
program of developing nuclear weapons or
when it carried out its first nuclear
test in
2006 but the United States under
successive administrations and
successive presidents from both parties
have repeatedly threatened North Korea
with the use of of nuclear weapons uh
going right back to 1950 uh and that's
the the context in in which one uh has
to see this uh the other aspect I think
is that
uh whilst there is a whilst there is a a
danger of War because the the issue is
being ramped up uh progressively and uh
we don't know what Trump's intentions
are and of course in history many wars
don't start deliberately they start by
miscalculation or or mistake so there
are a whole set of dangers against that
what you have to see is is that uh if
you look at the basically the whole um
postc world war history the United
States has repeatedly waged Wars It's
repeatedly waged them though against
essentially defenseless countries very
good point yeah when you think about
Iraq irat was attacked because it didn't
have wmd wasn't it exactly and Libya
Gaddafi gave up his weapons program
which probably signing his own death
warrant and Yugoslavia of course bombed
in 1999 didn't have nuclear weapons so
is it not the case as Pat Buchanan in
fact who's a right-wing American
politician America's actually
recommended that pongyang get gets nukes
simply to deter attack and isn't the the
message or for all leaders of countries
are threatened by the US actually to
develop nuclear weapons well I think
it's not just Pat Buchanan although she
didn't Advocate that uh pongyang
developed nuclear weapons but
nevertheless the former uh US Secretary
of State meline orright uh made the
observation that the lesson to be drawn
between Iraq and North Korea was that if
you don't have nuclear weapons you get
invaded by the United States and if you
do have nuclear weapons you don't you
don't get invaded and um meline orright
on on the one hand visited pongyang um
as um as Will Bill Clinton's uh Envoy uh
when she was Secretary of State and uh
she had long discussions with the the
North Korean leader Kim jongil and on
the other hand uh she was of course the
the woman who said that the deaths of up
to half a million Iraqi children were
under sanctions was a price worth paying
so this is a this is a woman who is not
above the cynical ations of real
politique absolutely where does China
fit in all of this because there is a
sort of theory that Trump may be using
this crisis hyping it up if you like uh
in order to put pressure on China to
sign a trade here with with the US is
that is that a possible reason certainly
the intensification of the crisis is an
is an is an essentially an artificial
one uh by by Trump yes uh yes North
Korea has carried out some more more
missile tests recently but there's been
no really qualitative uh change uh in in
in the respective uh positions of of the
two sides and yet it has been uh yet has
been hyped up in into into the crisis of
the moment and I think that um one has
to situate this within the context of
the fact that throughout his um
presidential campaign obviously Trump
said a lot of different things sometimes
very contradictory things absolutely
yeah but one of the things he was very
consistent on was in the Hardline stance
he take he took against China he appears
to have moderated that uh to to to some
extent at the moment
and uh but but it it's really a
difference in tone rather than substance
because what he's actually saying is
that he's trying to put pressure on onto
China to to in turn exercise pressure in
on in on on North Korea
uh and using both a a carrot of of uh
possibly bet better trade deals on on
not carrying through with his threats
but also the Stick of
um o of um secondary sanctions against
Chinese Banks or companies who who are
dealing with North Korea but but you
know also far more seriously uh the uh
the threat of increasing the tension in
the region and even of a military
conflict which even if China didn't
didn't get directly involved would would
still have you know very very serious
consequences uh uh for China and of
course the the deployment of the uh
terminal high altitude air defense the
So-Cal Thad in South Korea which is
ongoing at the moment uh is is
essentially aimed at China yes so Trump
has and and his various people Pence
Tillson and S have all said that the
days of strategic patience uh which was
Obama's policy to was North Korea are
over and all options are on the table
which of course is a is a threat of of
of military is a clear threat of
possible military attack uh but his
main practical politics at the moment
appears to be putting pressure on China
which is it's a sort of Obama policy on
steroids it's not it's not as it's not
as fundamentally different As Trump and
his people would like to like to to to
to make it appear but of course Trump's
presentational method are very different
from Obama's it is a difficult country
to get into isn't it you've been there
uh as a tourist you can go can't you on
various packages in some some companies
offer it so what can be what can be done
to sort of get get the reality out there
to get the truth and to to fight this
sort of propaganda that that is still
carrying on really from the old Cold War
it's it's quite an uphill struggle
because um It's Perfectly possible to to
go go to North Korea as a tourist um or
or in you know other other capacities
that that are appropriate
but if you you know there are there are
companies uh some based in the UK some
some British owned but based but based
in China with whom you can you can book
up and go to on a holiday but it it's
it's a it's a long journey and it's it's
quite expensive so it's uh it's it's not
going to break into the mass tourism
anytime soon anytime soon and is it the
right time to be going now with with the
saber rattling and with the current
situation how do you think think is
going to pan out Keith because uh on the
one hand you've said that it it could
just be a case of trump wanting to say
BR there isn't much of a change from the
Obama policy but the other hand we have
got a president there as you said he you
know he dropped the bomb in Afghanistan
the mother war bombs he bombed Syria he
he is he could come across perhaps by
many to see as unstable it's
uncertain uh and uh there is a risk
surely of War uh the Chinese are the key
players probably so where will we be do
you think in in s month's time here will
we still have this a rting going on will
there be some kind of calming of
tensions or will it get even
worse it's very difficult to say but I
think that if you look at the
situation this
week it it's still making the headlines
but it less so than less so than two
weeks ago um a lot a lot of the media
presentation even two weeks ago was that
was that war was all all but certain and
and and imminent yes uh
with it beneath the
um beneath the surface or of the of of
the threats and and and so on uh of of
of military attack as I mentioned uh
Trump's
policy at the moment seems to be mainly
focused on um trying trying to
pressurize pressurize the Chinese
the the
the the possibility clearly exists that
that Trump would take some kind of uh
rash or or or or adventurist action uh
but one would think that his advisers
would draw attention to the fact that
you know AF you know Afghanistan is is
an utterly defenseless country uh Syria
was in no position to to stop the to to
respond to the tomahawk missiles that
that were that that were placed uh upon
it of course the United States is by far
the most powerful military power on on
on Earth but North Korea as I say is not
is not a defenseless country and uh
there will
be and so irres make irrespective
irrespective of what um of the strong
anti-north Korean positions taken by uh
Japan and South
Korea there is um the th those countries
do not want to to see to see themselves
dragged into this kind this kind of a
war and what's also very important is
that uh there's presidential elections
coming up on in South Korea on May the
9th because the because the previous
president who was a very very right-wing
uh an anti-north Korea person in fact
the daughter of the former military
dictator uh was impeached and she's now
been arrested for for corruption a the
lead candidate in the polls in in South
Korea is a much more Progressive person
who wants to have better relations with
China who's skeptical about Washington
who wants to have dialogue uh W with
with North
Korea a month or so ago he was leading
by had a huge lead in the opinion polls
that's narrowed precisely because of the
ramping up of tensions at the moment and
that is also probably a factor in why
tensions are being ramped up at this
point because if Mr Moon the name of
this candidate is elected that's not
something that's to Washington's liking
but although his lead is narrowed he's
uh still in he's still the leading
candidate in the presidential race and
that's also why the
Thad anti-missile system is is being
speeded up in its deployment because
because he has expressed himself very
skeptical about the about the need for
this um so uh
um these are some of the factors we have
to keep in mind well it's been
fascinating discussion uh thanks for
coming on the sport Nick Keith thank you
don't go away because after the break
we'll be discussing the US's slow motion
coup against the socialist government of
Venezuela welcome back to Sputnik with
me Neil Clark standing in for Georgian
gaty under the leadership of the great
Ugo Chavez benua became a be for
Progressive Politics the world over
poverty levels and literacy rates and
unemployment all fell and per capita
income doubled but the US and the
Western Financial elit weren't too happy
about the threat of a good example the
award-winning journalist John Pilger has
called the economic Warfare waged by the
us against Venezuela as a slow motion
coup with a country reeling from Street
protests against the government of
Chavez's successor Nicholas Maduro is
that coup now coming to fruition or can
the chista revolution survive against
all the odds joining me now to discuss
the situation is Dr Francisco Dominguez
a senior Lector at middlex University
and the secretary of the Venezuela
solidarity campaign Francisco very warm
welcome on board the Sputnik thank you
for having me thank you thank you the
news coming from Venezuela in the
mainstream media is very bad isn't it
we're hearing stories the way it's been
presented is we've got uh Street
protests against an unpopular government
uh some protesters have been killed
we're talking about very bad economic
figures uh a clampdown on dissent uh it
reminds me very similar the the the
media coverage to Yugoslavia country I
reported from the late ' 90s where we
had a similar story demonization of the
leader of the country it was a socialist
economy uh there were Street protests
there the government was blamed for
clamping down on them uh is this the
same sort of process we're going on here
that we've seen played out in other
countries before that haven't done what
the US wanted them to do yeah what
they've done this to Chile to salvad Y
the the Democratic elected socialist
President of Chile between 1970 and 1973
I know this very well because I happen
to be Chilean myself okay and it's more
or less the same almost identical not
identical the same script pretty much
demonizing the victim and the victim
doing everything possible to you know
satisfy all sort of requirements that is
still is WR and the key to this is the
degree of violence that is being used in
order to try to overthrow the government
which is really the intention so if I
can give you some background to why this
is happening now and then we'll we'll
assess how serious it is the moment
wavis died back in
2013 the United States and you know
people the right wi around the continent
and internationally drew the conclusion
that this revolution that was a single
man show was about to collap because he
had gone the result as a consequence
they drew the conclusion that they have
to do something quite atic in order to
go for the kill so they unleash an
economic War very much reminiscent of
what they did against
salend in Chile which is holding
scarcity shortages and so on in order to
make sure that the popular base
sanctions of course that the popular
base actually that support the
government suffer the consequences and
OB obviously with the intention to
alienate it and this war produce some
significant results in other words it
work in the following sense that by 2015
15 when there were elections to the
National Assembly the the opposition
want a majority in the National Assembly
and they thought they got what they
wanted and therefore they were going to
use 2016 in order to actually overthrow
the government and the moment the
opposition president of the National
Assembly was inaugurated in January 2016
he announced very publicly and very
explicitly that his job was to actually
out the government and he gave himself
and the National Assembly six months
they tried absolutely everything I don't
have time to go into all the uh details
in terms of what they tried but they
Tred absolutely everything legally legal
Constitution and constitutional you name
it they tried it and they miserably
failed by 2016 those who are funding the
position realized that this strategy of
domestic attempt to allate the
government failed so therefore they
internationalize the int the attempt to
overthrow the government and they're
using and this is what the problem is
they using the General Secretary of the
organization of American states
particularly as the driving force in
order to create their conditions
internationally for some serious
intervention inside Venezuela and this
has not produced the result because
despite the efforts of L almag the
General Secretary of the organization of
American states which is organized
meeting after meeting after meeting
after meeting after meeting literally
every two days every 3 days of the
permanent Council of the
OAS yeah hasn't been able to get enough
votes in order to sanction Venezuela and
therefore they decided the people who
are organizing this decide that they
need something dramatic to take place in
the streets of Venezuela this is what is
going on now St this is the stage that
in and Almagro actually has with very
bad people around the world in order to
get what he wants which is the outting
of the Venezuelan government he for
example has gone to the United States to
with none other than Marco Rubio and
that sort of part of the Republican
Party
to discuss Venezuela he has also Le and
I participated in meetings with Alvar
former pres of columia you know extreme
right winger very well known for his
connection with paramilitarism and other
stuff so what is going on now is exactly
to get as much as possible of a street
violence so that the media that are very
supportive with the mainstream media
actually produce a hype and this is
where we're at yeah and and the
achievements of the first periods of the
Chavez period how much of those have
been reversed because of this economic
Warfare because I mentioned earlier
poverty levels have been reduced
unemployment of course there's been a
big economic impact hasn't there from
this Warfare which is intentional just I
want to add two things number one there
is an executive decree issued by Obama
which was renewed a year later declaring
Venezuela an extraordinary and threat to
the National Security of the United
States and declare the United States in
a St of emergency he renewed it one year
later and very recently literally two
five days ago seven days ago um
something like that Kurt tided who is
the general the Admiral in charge of the
US Southern command ISU the statement to
the media and to the Senate saying that
you know the situation in Venezuela
require a compelling in Regional
intervention so that is extremely
threatened this is what the problem is
in terms of the uh the
achievement the budget has increased in
terms of social expenditure from 64% 3
years ago to 67% 3 2 years ago
to 71% last year and to 7 74% last year
the number of houses that the government
has built over the last 2 three years is
in the region of 2 million which are
heavily subsidized houses the number of
Pensions have been increased clearly
this is no a revolution which is about
to collapse and Venezuela has paid all
these Financial Obligations a week ago
Venezuela just paid in bonds and
interest 2.7 billions in other words
feel absolutely alligation the trouble
is that because the private setor
controls the supply and the distribution
of food that's where the problem lies
and they're using this and the violence
in order to produce all these figures qu
inflation and so on which is basically
induced we've got an alliance haven't we
between the US and the business Elites
of Venezuela haven't we the very rich to
to destroy this government but also with
rightwing governments around the
rightwing governments in the region um
the the you know the government of
Brazil which emerges as as a of which is
very illegal they are Central today the
AR government with extremely right wing
who applying horrible policies and
neoliberal policies in Argentina is also
part of it this is the alliance really
with the governments and the oligarchy
in Venezuela itself yes because
Venezuela is more isolated than it was
perhaps sort of seven or eight years ago
as you said Argentina change of
government Brazil too and so it hasn't
got quite the the number of regional
friends it did have the regional forces
have changed in the region but I think
it's tempor but obviously this is what
the United States are using you know to
capitalize by using the organization
Americans in other words the United
States is very clever using a original
body and they are standing behind
pretending that he not they're not
Central to it although everybody knows
that they're Central let's talk about
the street protest because the way the
mainstream media is is presenting though
a very one-sided way isn't it as if this
is the people of Venezuela rising up
against this dictator it's interesting
how this word dictator is used about
Maduro despite his election victories of
course chvz I think won 16 isn't it 16
elections yet he was still called a
dictator 20 elections sorry and he was
still labeled whenever you see an
article about in mainstream media as a
dictator uh that's the way it's being
presented in the mainstream that you
know it's an uprising uh and yet we hear
a lot of report on other media
alternative media about chavistas
supporters chavistas being murdered by
by and violence being used against
supporters of the government we don't
hear much about that at all in the
western media do we well they're trying
to to isolate the government of
Venezuela particularly in Europe but
also elsewhere in the region in order to
create a context for the United States
to intervene in interal Affairs in a
very massive way remember Donald Trump
just launched missiles into Syria
without any real justification yes and I
think in the context of the US sat
command making that thly threatened
statement and in the Obama decree that
Venezuela is a threat to the National
Security of the US the contest might be
created and this is the most dangerous
part of it might be created for the
United States to escalate situation into
such an extent that they might just be
compelled as they put themselves to
intervene militar in vene
which I hope they don't because there
would be a time when the US would think
finally they've got to get rid of this
government yeah and if they can't get
rid of it through Street protest they
can't get rid of it that they would
actually think about military
Intervention which is what they've done
before and interestingly the governor of
Venezuela president Maduro despite all
of this is's still insisting on dialogue
still offering them a table of dialogue
he's still using the sponsorship of the
Vatican he's still using you know sapto
the former president of Spain as part of
the team that actually is encouraging
dial
the position Point Blank refuses to
discuss all they want is to ask the
government which they say it explicitly
every single day and what is disgusting
is that the media here failed to report
for example there was an attack on a
hospital a maternity hospital that
lasted 3 hours they tried to set fire on
it 54 babies wow were in in danger
mothers in labor have to stop giving
labor doing labor because of that attack
nurses and doctors and patients were
actually had to be evacuated and
mainstream media this is absolutely
disgusting refuse to publish this
because it contradicts The Narrative
contradicts The Narrative The Narrative
is these people who are fighting against
Venezuela are Democrats who are fighting
against authoritarian government and
Democrats do not do those things well
they do every single day absolutely what
can people do who care about Venezuela
who want to show solidarity and support
for this country Under Siege basically
what can they do to help well I think
the most important thing is to try to
get the alternative media there are
plenty of media unfortunately most of in
Spanish but there is also some in
English that we ourselves in the
Venezuela sity campaign produced which
actually produce the factual situation
the truth and so on it doesn't mean to
say doesn't have problem it does but the
very fact that the intention today is to
actually demonize the government so much
is that we are fighting against a very
giant you know operation which is
worldwide it's massive he very big
however people can see through um what
is going on now and the Very fact that
the government insists with the
sponsorship of Pope Francis the first as
well as others on dialogue and
discussion and constructive engagement
is an indication that the government has
no interest why should the government
have interest in killing people with all
it's going to do is just going to
intensify this campaign which is
intending to out so people can do that
and you know make sure that they don't
fall for these demonization which
sometimes is so crude thank you very
much for coming on the sport it's been a
fascinating talk thank you my pleasure
well unfortunately that's all we've got
time for this week I've been new Clark
and as George would
say it's been marvelous