1 00:00:01,710 --> 00:00:05,750 [Music] 2 00:00:14,260 --> 00:00:17,310 [Music] 3 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,960 spe 4 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:40,440 welcome to the Sputnik with me the 5 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:43,360 prince and Wales I think it's an 6 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:46,440 extremely interesting thing the whole 7 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:49,719 aspect of Soviet space travel has always 8 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:52,520 fascinated me ever since I was at 9 00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:56,280 gordonston of course I I couldn't admit 10 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:58,800 that I had a crush on Valentina Tes kova 11 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,960 otherwise my housem would have thought I 12 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,079 was some kind of com me and giving me a 13 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,360 terrible 14 00:01:02,079 --> 00:01:08,400 thrashing so that's why I I'm so pleased 15 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:10,280 to come out as it were and present 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,920 Sputnik 17 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:15,560 now sorry your old highness but I got 18 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,280 here first I'm Neil Clark orbiting the 19 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,280 world on Sputnik for my good friends 20 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,759 George and 21 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,759 gatrie have Donald Trump and Twitter 22 00:01:20,759 --> 00:01:25,159 been a marriage made in heaven or in 23 00:01:22,759 --> 00:01:27,040 Hell the American president has used 24 00:01:25,159 --> 00:01:29,119 social media to cut out the middlemen in 25 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,960 the mainstream media and appeal directly 26 00:01:29,119 --> 00:01:33,439 to the voting public 27 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:36,880 since launching on Twitter in 2011 the 28 00:01:33,439 --> 00:01:38,799 president has tweeted over 34,000 times 29 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,759 and has an incredible 30 00:01:38,799 --> 00:01:44,360 29.5 million followers that's even more 31 00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:46,399 than we have following Sputnik what part 32 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,600 did tw Twitter play in propelling Trump 33 00:01:46,399 --> 00:01:51,920 to the presidency and what can we learn 34 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,600 about the Donald from his 140 characters 35 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,000 to help us answer these questions is the 36 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,560 awardwinning and highly respected 37 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,840 journalist Peter oborn the co-author of 38 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:02,200 a new book how Trump thinks his tweets 39 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,680 and the birth of a new political 40 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,399 language an annotated chronology and 41 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,759 Analysis of all the president's tweets 42 00:02:07,399 --> 00:02:11,239 Peter a very warm welcome on board the 43 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:13,000 Sputnik what we got to ask you first of 44 00:02:11,239 --> 00:02:14,519 all is that Trump is not the only Pol 45 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,519 leading politician who uses Twitter just 46 00:02:14,519 --> 00:02:19,040 about every leading politician today 47 00:02:16,519 --> 00:02:21,040 uses it what makes his tweets so 48 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:25,360 different from the tweets of say Barack 49 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:28,080 Obama Hillary Clinton John McCaine Etc 50 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:31,040 yeah the answer is Hillary Clinton's 51 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:34,280 tweets were were created by committee 52 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:37,440 right all these political desicated 53 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:40,120 calculating machines special advisors 54 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,040 would nerdish sit around and sort of one 55 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,720 occasion they took nine hours to put out 56 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,040 a twe put out one tweet nine hourss nine 57 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,360 hours of committee meeting must be a 58 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,080 world record probably yeah and yeah and 59 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,840 so they're all calculated and they're 60 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,519 all and they're all other dispiriting 61 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:57,080 and they're all dead what the the Donald 62 00:02:53,519 --> 00:02:59,280 Donald Trump for of all of his other 63 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,480 failings they're spontaneous they're 64 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,879 alarm 65 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,799 he just whacks them out there and his 66 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:08,440 fat fingers in front of the Telly 67 00:03:04,799 --> 00:03:10,519 wearing his dressing G you know and and 68 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,879 they and they com they're combustible 69 00:03:10,519 --> 00:03:14,920 they're dangerous they take risks and 70 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:16,200 they engage with people they're exciting 71 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:20,040 and would he have got to the White House 72 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:21,959 without Twitter do you think um no he 73 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:25,239 himself says that Twitter took him to 74 00:03:21,959 --> 00:03:27,400 the white house uh and there's every 75 00:03:25,239 --> 00:03:29,799 reason to think so because his White 76 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:32,799 House strategy was based on uh 77 00:03:29,799 --> 00:03:35,680 confronting not not forming alliances 78 00:03:32,799 --> 00:03:38,200 and and sucking up to the the uh our 79 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,159 beloved friends in the mainstream media 80 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:43,840 of which you don't apparently belong 81 00:03:40,159 --> 00:03:46,360 yourself I'm disappointed to say um I he 82 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,439 he was of Silent of going around their 83 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,720 backs finding other methods of talking 84 00:03:48,439 --> 00:03:53,120 to people and the primary method were 85 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,640 these uh these tweets which he he which 86 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,599 he sent out and I think in many ways 87 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,480 they're quite close to genius and what 88 00:03:58,599 --> 00:04:02,920 what what were the best and the worst of 89 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,799 Donald Trump's tweets that you found 90 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,360 it's very interesting the the early 91 00:04:04,799 --> 00:04:09,760 tweets are ghastly really that they he 92 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:13,159 takes he does it he's advised obviously 93 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:16,400 by some uh some snake oil salesman that 94 00:04:13,159 --> 00:04:19,160 he ought to uh tweet in order to sell 95 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,320 his horrible products yeah in those days 96 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,400 it was his TV show wasn't it The 97 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,639 Apprentice was that was that he had a TV 98 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:28,720 show The Apprentice his various Brands 99 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:31,120 he tweeted out about his men's wear his 100 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:34,639 Gastly book telling you how to make lots 101 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:37,280 of money I mean um his wife has all 102 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:39,160 kinds of perfumes and I mean it's all 103 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:41,600 tweeted about and it's all dead because 104 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,840 it's clearly done by the uh the 105 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,440 marketing men but there is a moment in 106 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:47,240 and you can see it very clearly in the 107 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,720 summer of 108 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:52,960 2011 when some you know it's a bit like 109 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,960 that moment in The Terminator where 110 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,600 where the machines take control you know 111 00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:01,720 it's incredible moment where the tweets 112 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:03,759 come alive right and and um they and 113 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:07,080 Trump discovered his inner voice and and 114 00:05:03,759 --> 00:05:08,800 the 140 characters are the ideal ideal 115 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,440 thing for Trump you know the Wake Up 116 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:13,919 America China is eating your lunch yes 117 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:17,840 that was a classic was yeah and they and 118 00:05:13,919 --> 00:05:21,240 he does and some something about them in 119 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:22,800 Che it into his uh subconscious I think 120 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,280 and all it happens to all writers and 121 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,520 all great politicians there's a moment 122 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:28,880 when you discover your voice and he 123 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,000 discovers his voice and Twitter is the 124 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,880 perfect media because it's it's very 125 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,000 unsophisticated no Nuance really there 126 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,440 is it at all yet you can get out a 127 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:40,039 powerful message only the scope to get 128 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,520 out you know a sense of black and white 129 00:05:40,039 --> 00:05:44,080 and yet there's a lot you can do with it 130 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,840 and uh and he engages with Twitter and 131 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,319 he becomes a a phenominal he just tweets 132 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:50,840 he doesn't sort of respond to people 133 00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:53,199 tweeting him back well he does does he 134 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:57,000 yeah I don't know one yeah he will but 135 00:05:53,199 --> 00:06:00,919 what he does um is as the 136 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:03,440 2016 election starts to get going half 137 00:06:00,919 --> 00:06:05,759 of his tweets are retweets not of this 138 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,000 sort of you know most people watching 139 00:06:05,759 --> 00:06:09,639 this were familiar with the comment you 140 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,160 know the commentators the chattering 141 00:06:09,639 --> 00:06:14,800 classes retweeting each other 142 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,319 reinforcing their own gly worldview and 143 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:20,400 prejudices and telling each other how 144 00:06:16,319 --> 00:06:23,599 wonderful they are what what um what 145 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,759 Trump does is retweet the panters out 146 00:06:23,599 --> 00:06:27,360 there in the 147 00:06:24,759 --> 00:06:30,599 sticks and so half of them become and so 148 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:33,280 engages personally very directly with 149 00:06:30,599 --> 00:06:35,319 ordinary people lots of cases we 150 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:38,280 uncovered in our book you know little 151 00:06:35,319 --> 00:06:40,120 chat you know little bloke who has 250 152 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:42,120 followers you know's he's a grandmother 153 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,680 and his second cousin and his best 154 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,680 friend suddenly he's retweeted by Trump 155 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,680 and he's got 20 million people looking 156 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,160 at his observations and say that's how 157 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,440 Trump engaged that's very different 158 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,000 isn't it because as you say elite 159 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,560 figures don't normally do that do they 160 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,319 they just retweet each other they're 161 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,599 very important people non people for 162 00:06:57,319 --> 00:07:00,440 they're very important these people in 163 00:06:58,599 --> 00:07:03,319 the mainstream they're very important 164 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,840 people very serious people and they PR 165 00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:06,199 praise one of the reasons we know that 166 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:08,440 is they tell each other how how very 167 00:07:06,199 --> 00:07:10,000 important they are yes yeah quite yes so 168 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,240 that was a populous move by Trump really 169 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,560 wasn't it to embrace Twitter and uh what 170 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,319 would be the sort of worst Donald Trump 171 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,000 tweet that you saw one was a really sort 172 00:07:17,319 --> 00:07:20,360 of objectionable what would be the best 173 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,400 what I mean some of his tweets on the 174 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:26,919 Arab Spring have proved to be 175 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:31,199 pretty y he got he understood the um the 176 00:07:26,919 --> 00:07:33,840 D dynamics of Western intervention in in 177 00:07:31,199 --> 00:07:36,199 the Middle East much more clearly than 178 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,479 his opponents he warned 179 00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:42,360 immediately and by the by The Early 180 00:07:38,479 --> 00:07:44,520 Autumn of 2011 he was predicting what 181 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,440 chaos would ensue from the Libyan 182 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:49,199 intervention right he got that 183 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,039 completely right likewise uh he was 184 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:54,360 warning against interventions in Syria 185 00:07:51,039 --> 00:07:56,120 he later changed his mind yes sir um but 186 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,080 he was warning against interventions in 187 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:01,560 Syria he was warning against Iraq 188 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:05,759 Afghanistan he's very very very coherent 189 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:07,720 and consistent um in his um you know he 190 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:09,520 not a idealistic foreign policy it's an 191 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,240 isolationist foreign policy really but 192 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,400 it also he does appear um reading his 193 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,840 tweets to understand the Dynamics of 194 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,639 what was going to go wrong it with you 195 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:20,080 know strongly against the Libyan things 196 00:08:17,639 --> 00:08:21,440 right right right now the the um there 197 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,039 are on the other hand there are some 198 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:26,520 terrible tweets I mean real I mean he he 199 00:08:24,039 --> 00:08:29,400 has this horrible habit of if if a 200 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:32,039 famous person dies he's a best friend of 201 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:34,519 best R of that and um you know when 202 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:36,680 Nelson Mandela Dies who he possibly I 203 00:08:34,519 --> 00:08:39,599 reckon maybe met once for about 3 204 00:08:36,680 --> 00:08:42,440 seconds Shake three seconds yes you know 205 00:08:39,599 --> 00:08:44,839 it's uh my his wonderful relationship 206 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:47,800 with Nelson I mean given the kind of 207 00:08:44,839 --> 00:08:50,560 company which Trump keeps um for him to 208 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,480 claim a relationship with Nelson Mandela 209 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:54,920 I find pretty gruesome to be honest so 210 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:57,519 that was a real low Point perhaps the 34 211 00:08:54,920 --> 00:09:00,560 34,000 tweets and I mean and there's a 212 00:08:57,519 --> 00:09:03,320 white there a there's a even I mean more 213 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:05,399 TR one of his retweets we we found out 214 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,160 was we you know was white something 215 00:09:05,399 --> 00:09:11,240 called white genocide really ugly 216 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:13,560 horrible Nazi right website so there is 217 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,480 uh there is that Darkness to Trump Peter 218 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:16,800 you're a man of many talents so not only 219 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,399 Britain's probably most respected 220 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,680 political commentator you're a great 221 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:22,600 sports fan as I am we've been racing 222 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:25,640 together at the chelon festival you're 223 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:27,560 also very big Cricket fan and you have 224 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,560 written the authoritative history of 225 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:32,079 cricket in Pakistan haven't you I 226 00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:34,800 certainly have wounded tiger yeah I'm 227 00:09:32,079 --> 00:09:36,680 very very proud of that um and actually 228 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:40,000 it's not a bad day to talk about this 229 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:42,920 when the two of the greatest men of 230 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:46,320 whole history of kistan cricket um MB 231 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:48,839 hak the Great Captain who saved and Unis 232 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,839 Khan basically they saved Pakistan 233 00:09:48,839 --> 00:09:55,800 cricket after the terrible terrorist 234 00:09:51,839 --> 00:09:58,000 assaults in 2009 when the San team s 235 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,640 Lankan team was targeted and then the 236 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:03,720 match fixing or the spot fixing uh 237 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:06,560 controversy more properly said to the 238 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,200 following year which basically put 239 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:10,640 Pakistan out into the you know the 240 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:13,399 reason to and it's been saved by misba 241 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:16,880 who let's pay tribute to this great man 242 00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:18,640 who uh who saved Pakistan cricket and 243 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,480 that was so that's so important because 244 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,680 it's the whole idea of the Pakistan 245 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:25,680 nation and it's so full of these great 246 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:28,480 wonderful Figures it's an amazing book 247 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:30,880 amazing book I recommend it to everyone 248 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,519 basic in sport going back to Trump 249 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,680 briefly I mean things are moving pretty 250 00:10:32,519 --> 00:10:35,000 fast probably what we say in this 251 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:38,279 program might be out of date by the time 252 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:41,040 it's broadcast you know the FBI story as 253 00:10:38,279 --> 00:10:43,600 he he's been tweeting uh this week about 254 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,920 his sharing intelligence hasn't he with 255 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,320 the Russians saying you know what's 256 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,519 wrong I did it for humanitarian reasons 257 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:52,399 because apparently was about Isis plot 258 00:10:49,519 --> 00:10:55,279 to take down Russian civilian Airlines 259 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:57,079 uh isn't that another we say Twitter 260 00:10:55,279 --> 00:10:59,040 helped Trump get to the White House is 261 00:10:57,079 --> 00:11:00,760 it it is it possible too that tritter 262 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,639 can actually make him stay in the white 263 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,839 house because he can actually respond to 264 00:11:02,639 --> 00:11:07,320 his critics uh far quicker more directly 265 00:11:05,839 --> 00:11:10,320 than if he had to go through the conduit 266 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:13,040 of the a pretty hostile press it's a 267 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:15,440 very nice Point actually it's because he 268 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:18,240 s when he left when he won the 269 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:20,360 presidency he said he was going to stop 270 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,760 tweeting uh but actually that never 271 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:25,760 happened but certainly the tweets became 272 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:28,519 less interesting and suddenly now he's 273 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,720 engaged in this new uh fight for 274 00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:31,320 survival 275 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,320 he's um should have gone back isn't he 276 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:37,360 to he's gone back and and justify 277 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:39,800 himself on Twitter and that's of course 278 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,440 very um a significant thing to do and 279 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,720 it's the first thing time this has ever 280 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:47,000 been done as you as you said you know 281 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:50,040 Barack Obama's tweets were very 282 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:52,399 careful and and and and yet Trump uses 283 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,959 them as a method of as a method of 284 00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:57,959 primary method of getting out of his 285 00:11:54,959 --> 00:12:00,040 political message and bypassing the the 286 00:11:57,959 --> 00:12:01,560 main political media media yes so 287 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,680 perhaps a follow-up book in a couple of 288 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:06,360 years time when he well every six months 289 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:07,720 every six months he 75,000 Peter thanks 290 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,639 so much for coming on the spck it's been 291 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,160 great don't go away because after the 292 00:12:09,639 --> 00:12:12,720 break we'll be getting the lowdown on 293 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,920 this week's presidential elections in 294 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:17,279 Iran with our own Middle East expert 295 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,279 Katherine 296 00:12:19,390 --> 00:12:23,199 [Music] 297 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:25,760 shakam welcome back to Sputnik with me 298 00:12:23,199 --> 00:12:27,720 Neil Clark with elections underway in 299 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,839 Iran there are a number of issues at 300 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,760 stake along with the usual domestic 301 00:12:29,839 --> 00:12:34,480 concerns regarding economic and social 302 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:37,680 agendas Donald Trump's campaign pledge 303 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:40,399 to rip up the 2016 Accord which lifted 304 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:41,959 sanctions must surely color the outcome 305 00:12:40,399 --> 00:12:43,480 will the electorate move toward a 306 00:12:41,959 --> 00:12:45,639 government more in line with the Islamic 307 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,399 revolution or will they stick with the 308 00:12:45,639 --> 00:12:50,680 more liberal agenda of the current Rani 309 00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:52,480 Administration to help us drill down to 310 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:55,320 what might be going through their minds 311 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,040 is cathine shakum our Middle East expert 312 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,639 Katherine a very warm welcome back on 313 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,360 board the Sputnik so who are the runners 314 00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:02,360 and riders in the in the Iranian 315 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,320 election Stak so to speak I would say 316 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,560 there's two main you know um I think 317 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:10,000 candidates here and you have say Ibrahim 318 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:11,800 RI um who is definitely I think he's a 319 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,720 newcomer in the sense that you know the 320 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,040 West wasn't very much aware of his 321 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,360 existence until now and then of course 322 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,639 incoming president uh Hassan Rohani 323 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,639 who's running again um and I think it's 324 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:24,320 really a raceing between those two 325 00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:26,440 candidates uh in particular I mean the 326 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:29,519 others are there uh but I would say they 327 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:31,040 they there to um you know demonstrate 328 00:13:29,519 --> 00:13:33,320 that Iran is in fact you know a 329 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,240 pluralist um democracy and that you know 330 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:38,920 people you need to have different voices 331 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:41,079 to kind of um you know um make room for 332 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,839 you know people's I would say agenda and 333 00:13:41,079 --> 00:13:44,800 to make sure that you know the needs and 334 00:13:42,839 --> 00:13:46,120 the voices are being represented but 335 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,760 really when it comes down to it we 336 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,880 really talking in between a race in 337 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:53,320 between sayi and president Rani and I 338 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,079 think it's very interesting because the 339 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,959 I mean I know that the West has been 340 00:13:55,079 --> 00:13:59,320 leaning very heavily towards president 341 00:13:56,959 --> 00:14:01,639 Rohani because of course he brokered um 342 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,279 you know the the nuclear agreement um 343 00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:04,720 and he make things very interesting for 344 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:06,279 the West because he's very much 345 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,440 understood as someone who's more 346 00:14:06,279 --> 00:14:10,240 diplomatic in his approach but what is 347 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,800 very interesting is that the West is 348 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,839 completely missing the points in Iran 349 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,800 where there's um almost a Revival I 350 00:14:14,839 --> 00:14:19,079 would say um that is happening right now 351 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:22,040 in Iran where this new generation you 352 00:14:19,079 --> 00:14:24,320 know the youth um that the West is very 353 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,880 willing to portray as being pro Western 354 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,880 in that you know they want reform and 355 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,360 they want things to change they do but 356 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:32,079 they don't want change in the in the way 357 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,839 that I would say Western capitals 358 00:14:32,079 --> 00:14:35,920 understand it and it's very interesting 359 00:14:33,839 --> 00:14:37,160 because you have someone like sayi who's 360 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,040 coming to the scene and has been 361 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,480 portrayed as a so-call highliner 362 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,920 highliner or conservative uh because of 363 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,839 course he represents you know the 364 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,560 religious establishment in a way he's 365 00:14:44,839 --> 00:14:49,680 very much in tune with what the youth 366 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:53,639 wants right now which is uh a return I 367 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:56,680 would say to uh the principles of 1979 368 00:14:53,639 --> 00:14:59,519 Revolution and by that I mean this idea 369 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,480 that Iran and Iranians have have a right 370 00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:03,079 to their own system of governance 371 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,600 regardless of what the west or other 372 00:15:03,079 --> 00:15:06,920 countries in the international committee 373 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,839 think of it and that is very interesting 374 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,720 because we live in a time where we keep 375 00:15:08,839 --> 00:15:12,040 talking about the separation of power 376 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,959 you know that the religious needs to be 377 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,639 cut off from the political and fair 378 00:15:13,959 --> 00:15:17,399 enough it has worked in the west I mean 379 00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:20,680 you know some might argue that it's not 380 00:15:17,399 --> 00:15:22,800 working anymore um but Iran understands 381 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:26,199 politics and the way that its system 382 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:28,720 needs to to function very differently um 383 00:15:26,199 --> 00:15:30,680 and they want to have this uh religious 384 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,399 oversight they want to have a nation 385 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,600 under God in the true sense of the of 386 00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:36,199 the word um and that's what the the new 387 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,759 generation is actually going back 388 00:15:36,199 --> 00:15:41,480 towards they understand that he has um 389 00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:44,199 the governance of the jurus has very 390 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,639 much anchored the sense of nationality 391 00:15:44,199 --> 00:15:48,319 uh and that they understand that it 392 00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:50,240 actually has saved Iran in that he has 393 00:15:48,319 --> 00:15:51,600 remained an independent nation it 394 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,040 doesn't mean they haven't suffered from 395 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,440 economic sanctions and what not of 396 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,800 course not but it means that they 397 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,240 understand that it was a necessary 398 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,759 struggle and they understand 399 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,040 that this is something that they want to 400 00:16:00,759 --> 00:16:04,920 keep pushing to towards and not you know 401 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,720 what we calling now which is you know 402 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,839 this globalist agenda where everybody 403 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,000 has to kind of blend in and come into 404 00:16:08,839 --> 00:16:13,120 this world economy Iran wants very much 405 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,120 to remain independent it doesn't mean it 406 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,279 doesn't want to play nice with its 407 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,480 neighbors it just means that they want 408 00:16:16,279 --> 00:16:20,880 to uh preserve and protect their 409 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,720 sovereignty their right to political 410 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,800 self-determination uh and their right to 411 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,480 self to their own system of governance 412 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,839 which is different from that of the west 413 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,639 but Democratic nevertheless yes I think 414 00:16:28,839 --> 00:16:33,480 that's very interesting because he 415 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:36,639 represents this Alliance in between what 416 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:38,759 the future will look like in Iran and 417 00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:40,360 the tradition of Iran in terms of you 418 00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:42,120 know this this marriage in between the 419 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,720 religious and the political and there's 420 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:47,000 a fusion here that a lot of the time the 421 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,959 West misunderstand because we talk about 422 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,000 theocracy when we talk about Iran it's 423 00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:53,720 not a theocracy it's it's an Islamic 424 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:57,880 Republic meaning that it is a democracy 425 00:16:53,720 --> 00:17:00,680 but a democracy that relies upon um a 426 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,639 degree you know this religious oversight 427 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,240 so you have it's very interesting the 428 00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:06,520 way that it functions because there is 429 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,959 no real Line in the Sand that is being 430 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:11,319 drawn but at the same time there is a 431 00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:13,640 very clear space where people have um 432 00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:15,360 you know can expresss and decide what 433 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,839 policies they want to follow but at the 434 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:19,720 same time it's architected in a way that 435 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:21,600 it stays within the boundaries set up by 436 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,799 Islam system but is not the same here in 437 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,000 a 438 00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:26,360 sense when we think of our elections in 439 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,799 the west is very much the same thing 440 00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:29,840 isn't it Iran gets criticized for saying 441 00:17:28,799 --> 00:17:31,480 that you have to stay within the 442 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,760 parameters of the Islamic Republic but 443 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,640 isn't the same here that anybody who 444 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:37,080 wants to go outside of these narrow 445 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,160 parameters is attacked and assailed and 446 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,720 called an extremist absolutely and 447 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,320 that's interesting air time doesn't get 448 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,039 any promotion at all but isn't it 449 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,480 interesting the the degree of prejudice 450 00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:48,600 and I think you know to be quite fair 451 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:51,400 with you I think um 1979 Iran has been 452 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,000 uh grossly misunderstood in that they so 453 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,679 they didn't understand that it was truly 454 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,080 a stand for justice um and and National 455 00:17:55,679 --> 00:17:59,240 sovereignty I mean you know when Imam 456 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,200 Kini came to the scene uh it wasn't it 457 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,760 was an act of Revolution against tyranny 458 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:06,440 the Sha uh and the Sha represented of 459 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,919 course you know capitalist interests or 460 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,880 of course exactly he represented 461 00:18:07,919 --> 00:18:12,080 imperialism in its most you know gross 462 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,559 and and Despicable uh manner I would say 463 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,440 I mean he he massacred a lot of people 464 00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:18,120 we need to remember this so when Imam 465 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,039 Kini came people of course saw you know 466 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:21,760 a cleric that they did not understand 467 00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:23,799 they did understand you know the the the 468 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,480 the his his own sense of fashion or the 469 00:18:23,799 --> 00:18:27,360 tradition that he carried and so 470 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,440 automatically they labeled him as being 471 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,240 you know a hardliner radical he wasn't 472 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,320 radical at all what he was actually 473 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,840 calling for which is interesting uh is 474 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,240 actually what America is calling for 475 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,240 which is you know empowerment of the 476 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:41,600 people legitimacy democracy human rights 477 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:44,120 dignity Sovereign National you know all 478 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,240 those um you know patriotism all those 479 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:47,559 principles that it's okay for the US and 480 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,880 Donald Trump to say that but not okay 481 00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:50,640 for Iranians to say that it's 482 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,520 interesting isn't it how you know it's 483 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,799 it's I just I find it very compelling 484 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,200 that you know you can have for example 485 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:58,679 Donald Trump calling for America first 486 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,320 but when Iran is saying it when is 487 00:18:58,679 --> 00:19:02,200 actually calling for Iran you know to 488 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,840 kind of strap up and say you know we are 489 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,960 Iranians and we will continue to stand 490 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,120 for Iranian interests fair enough it is 491 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:12,360 the country after all then it becomes 492 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:14,400 you know an act um extremist it's 493 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,880 belligerent or it's it's dangerous for 494 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,360 for for stability for the stability of 495 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,559 the region but how so you cannot 496 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:21,960 possibly make a case for your own rights 497 00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:23,880 if you don't actually expect other 498 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,679 people to demand the same rights and 499 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,880 actually claim it for themsel and I 500 00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:28,600 think that's the problem that we have 501 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,880 today is that exceptionalism is actually 502 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,159 leading the show and that we have 503 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,320 decided somehow along the line to say 504 00:19:33,159 --> 00:19:37,520 that Western democracy is automatically 505 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,960 better but we tend to forget that it's 506 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,760 not the case of better or worse it's the 507 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,480 case of what do the people want it's 508 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,520 interesting because Saudi Arabia for 509 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,559 example which is a theocracy which is 510 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,080 violent and repressive and and is 511 00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:50,039 actually I would say qu rather 512 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,039 despicable in the manner that it's it 513 00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:56,280 operates um is never criticized because 514 00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:57,520 it's a front but then again you know 515 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,720 would you rather be front with a 516 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,120 democracy you know maybe you you don't 517 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,960 agree with everything but still 518 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:05,960 democracy or would you actually lie in 519 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,640 bed with a theocracy I would choose Iran 520 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,760 as a France rather than Saudi Arabia 521 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,799 because at least they don't commit war 522 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:13,039 crimes every day what differences would 523 00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:15,400 there be in terms of foreign policy if 524 00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:18,080 any depending on who wins for example 525 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,520 with the Accords with the US and also in 526 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,039 relation to Syria because I'm sure 527 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,039 you'll agree that what happens in Syria 528 00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:25,600 is usually important for Iran were yes 529 00:20:23,039 --> 00:20:26,919 the Assad government to be toppled then 530 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,960 this would be very dangerous for around 531 00:20:26,919 --> 00:20:30,240 because we know we saw Wesley Clark 532 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,760 Commander Wesley Clark the NATO 533 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,240 Commander speech talking about how many 534 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,440 countries the US was going to take out 535 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,240 Iran's on the list we know that were the 536 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,080 Syrian government to fall then Iran 537 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,200 would be next in the neocon line of fire 538 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,600 is there any would there be any 539 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,679 difference at all between the candidates 540 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,640 on the position regarding the US and 541 00:20:44,679 --> 00:20:48,000 Syria I'm going to say you're not going 542 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,520 to have you're not going to find a real 543 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,520 difference in that you need to 544 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,960 understand when it comes to Iran um I 545 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:56,200 would said that a said the tone so he 546 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,120 already made very clear um that you know 547 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,600 there will be no backing from Syria 548 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:01,559 because Syria ask for help and Iran 549 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,919 understand that you know when it comes 550 00:21:01,559 --> 00:21:04,559 to counterterrorism you can't really 551 00:21:02,919 --> 00:21:06,400 play lightly go in and then get out when 552 00:21:04,559 --> 00:21:07,919 it gets tough um so I don't think that 553 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,120 you're going to see any real difference 554 00:21:07,919 --> 00:21:12,080 you might see a difference uh in in the 555 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:14,000 manner in which the agenda is being 556 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,960 carried uh in that you're going to find 557 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,120 you know um a different of tone maybe 558 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,720 language uh or the behavior will be a 559 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:24,480 bit different but I would say that when 560 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:26,320 it comes to um Rohani Mr Rohani um he 561 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,720 has been more liberal I don't like the 562 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,760 word liberal but I would say he has been 563 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,279 a bit more Pro Western in that he's 564 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:36,799 leaning towards capitalism a bit more 565 00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:39,120 where there's a greater desire to to be 566 00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:42,520 integrated into I would say the world 567 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:44,240 economy now when it come to sayi um 568 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,880 there's a greater desire to really 569 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:49,320 temper you know capitalism with I would 570 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:53,039 say what referred to is the resistance 571 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:55,200 economy in that he very much pushes on 572 00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:57,000 this idea that Iran needs to be 573 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,600 independent and it doesn't mean that it 574 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,039 needs to be cut off but it means that 575 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,240 there's a there's a need for a degree of 576 00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:05,400 self-sufficiency uh so that Iran would 577 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,840 be able to negotiate with a strong 578 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,559 position you know whether it's um you 579 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,520 know um business deals or you know 580 00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:14,559 political agreement or or anything like 581 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,559 this because if you come from a place 582 00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:19,760 where you are financially sound and 583 00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:23,559 strong then you can really actually 584 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:25,559 promote um the the rights of your people 585 00:22:23,559 --> 00:22:26,720 rather than that of the people across 586 00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:28,440 the table from you and are there 587 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,840 concerns Katherine in Iraq about what 588 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,440 happened to Libya for example because 589 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,159 he's very similar isn't it Libya Colonel 590 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,520 Gaddafi was out in the cold pushed out 591 00:22:33,159 --> 00:22:38,039 in the cold by the way he was the Pariah 592 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,919 then about 2003 he surrendered his 593 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:42,960 weapons program sanctions were lifted 594 00:22:40,919 --> 00:22:45,600 Western investment ped into Libya became 595 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,840 a cruise ship destination Tony Blair was 596 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,240 out there grinning and what was that all 597 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:52,080 preparing us for war on Libya to weaken 598 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,600 Libya to get uh to use Western if you 599 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,279 like investment in there as a sort of 600 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,880 cover for then a regime change op is 601 00:22:56,279 --> 00:23:02,120 there a sort of concern among Iranians 602 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:04,039 that Ran's approach might possibly lead 603 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:05,679 to that further along down the line and 604 00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:07,360 and that in other words they would be 605 00:23:05,679 --> 00:23:11,240 better off having a leader who was 606 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:13,240 actually uh if you like less uh Pro 607 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,000 Western to to defend the country 608 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,520 basically you see again I'm going back 609 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,279 to um I do understand where you're 610 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,480 coming from uh but you have to 611 00:23:18,279 --> 00:23:23,120 understand that the leadership the real 612 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,559 leadership uh is within the hands of a 613 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:25,960 so I don't think that Iranians are 614 00:23:24,559 --> 00:23:28,039 concerned because they understand that 615 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,400 the country is very much protected and 616 00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:32,640 certain line will never be crossed I 617 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,240 think that you know was very clear as to 618 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,720 where he stands in terms of you know 619 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,080 what he will allow and not allow because 620 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,919 is there to ensure that there is the 621 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,960 Integrity of the state is being 622 00:23:39,919 --> 00:23:43,520 preserved and I think this is something 623 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,760 that the West needs to really get a grip 624 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:48,120 on and understand that some things will 625 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,000 never change because Iran speaks a 626 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,120 tradition that the West might not 627 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,720 understand but it doesn't mean it's not 628 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:56,400 there um and and I think he has a great 629 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,200 degree of um this misconception when it 630 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,880 comes to Shia Islam because people think 631 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:03,440 Islam think Saudi Arabia Shia Islam is 632 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,520 very different Shia Islam has a whole 633 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:08,080 system and a tradition which is even 634 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,080 though very similar in in many ways very 635 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,720 different in the way that it manifests 636 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,159 politically speaking uh and I think that 637 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,440 people just need to get a grip and try 638 00:24:14,159 --> 00:24:17,039 to understand it rather than pass 639 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,440 judgment thinking they're talking about 640 00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:21,360 Saudi Arabia it's very different in Iran 641 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,960 you can't you know you can't talk about 642 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:26,640 you can Iran has a human rights um 643 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,200 tradition you know uh women have a right 644 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,240 uh in Iran that they don't have in Saudi 645 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,520 Arabia for example so he really talking 646 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,360 um you know you're talking apples and 647 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,159 and and bananas here you can't there is 648 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:37,600 no comparison and we have elections in 649 00:24:35,159 --> 00:24:39,399 IR exactly exactly which I mean in Saudi 650 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,159 Arabia I I can't remember the last time 651 00:24:39,399 --> 00:24:43,240 they had elections um I think it was 652 00:24:41,159 --> 00:24:45,200 about 14 centuries ago or something and 653 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,480 um you know I mean it's and the British 654 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,000 government doesn't seem to mind too much 655 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,679 about that does it exactly which is 656 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,600 interesting because they criticize a lot 657 00:24:49,679 --> 00:24:53,240 Iran but Iran actually has elections and 658 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,559 for example um there were several 659 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,080 articles now I think it was the Middle 660 00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:57,880 East I and the Middle East Monitor you 661 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,600 know talking about suddenly Iran is on 662 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,120 the war path you know they mobilizing 663 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,559 their troops it's not true what they're 664 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:03,960 doing is that you have to understand 665 00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:05,360 that millions and millions of Iranians 666 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,120 are going to vote it's a logistic 667 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:09,640 Nightmare and what they're trying to do 668 00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:12,000 is actually facilitate you know uh buses 669 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,480 going from point A to point B uh without 670 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,480 any trouble so what's the problem in 671 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:19,720 having you know um the Army and the the 672 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,039 security service in in Iran to secure um 673 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,080 you know to ensure that everything goes 674 00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:24,679 up to plan and that there's no issues I 675 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,840 think it's quite reasonable I would say 676 00:25:24,679 --> 00:25:28,039 absolutely well Katherine it's been a 677 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,000 pleasure to have you once again on the 678 00:25:28,039 --> 00:25:31,520 sport thank you for coming on always a 679 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,760 pleasure well unfortunately that's all 680 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:36,200 we've got time for today I've been Neil 681 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,799 Clark standing in for George Galloway 682 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,240 and as George would 683 00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:41,240 say it's been 684 00:25:46,210 --> 00:25:49,269 [Music] 685 00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:58,039 marvelous