[Music]
Okay, thank you. I need some
[Music]
Welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me Kim
Jong-un. I have had long ambition to
present Sputnik to go into outer space
and have cheese sandwich with good
friend Donald
Trump. Oh no you don't Kim. You've
already got a career in Korea. I'm Neil
Clark and I am presenting Sputnik for
George Galloway and Gatry. Morocco has
long prided itself on being one of the
most stable countries in North Africa, a
place where the so-called Arab Spring
didn't turn into an Arab winter. But
since October, there's been a big
increase in tensions as anti-government
protests have swept the country. The
authorities have responded with a carrot
and stick approach. As in the film
Casablanca, the usual suspects,
including the leader of the protest
movement and many others too, have been
arrested. But at King Muhammad's behest,
there's also been promises by the
government to increase infrastructure
spending and improve the economy. Will
the concessions be enough to quell the
discontent? Or is Morocco heading for a
genuine people's revolution? Joining me
now to discuss the events there is the
analyst, Dr. Riyaz Kareem. Dr. Kareem,
very warm welcome on board the Sputnik.
Thank you. So, can you give us the
background to these uh disturbances,
these protests in Morocco? But when did
they actually uh really start in
earnest? Well, in earnest really they
started in 1958. Okay. Uh when King the
late King Hassan II was uh in power.
Um a similar happen a similar thing
happened in the Riff uh mountains u with
with the same people. Okay. Um and his
way of dealing it was he sent thousands
of
troops to um to go and quail the
uprising at that at that time. Uh and
their demand was the very same then as
it is now. It it is you know it is
because the the the region is under
represented
and um they didn't and under the in the
north of Morocco. Yeah. The rift. Yeah.
the ref region. um they were
underrepresented in Rabbat in the
government and they're underdeveloped
ever since right and um you know at that
time it was quelled but then again um
you know as um Mosin Fickery the um the
fisherman right um he was basically just
selling swordfish which happened to be
out of season
and what they did was the police came in
harassed him, took his fish away and
threw it in the garbage truck. Um, and
it was his only way of livelihood. So,
what he did was he actually jumped into
the garbage truck to go retrieve the
fish. Okay. And as he did that, one of
the drivers actually pressed the switch
on the compactor and he was killed and
he was crushed and killed. Right. And
that is that is very uh similar to what
happened to um Muhammad Buazizi in
Tunisia. Exactly. Yeah. Which which
actually uh started the Arab Springs in
2011. Um and this was the cause of this
uprising. Um and and now it is it is
getting to a point where the government
actually literally has to pay attention
to uh to the refuge. It has spread all
over the country. Yeah. And now there
protest. Yeah, it is there protests in
in Rabbat, in Casablanca,
um I believe in Tangers and in NORD
already. Um and there is a heavy police
presence as well. Uh the guy who
actually started this um his name is
Naser Zev Zafi. Zez Zafi is a 39year-old
out of work guy, not very educated. Um
and um he you know he sort of became the
de facto leader of the protest of the
protest movement which is called Al-Hiak
I believe
uh and uh they were trying to find a way
to arrest him but he was on the run and
then he went into a mosque where um you
know where one of the um um preachers
was preaching and he went directly onto
the microphone phone and said, um, was
this mosque made uh for for praying or
or for um for uh the leadersh? Mhm.
And uh that gave him a cause and
basically he was um he was arrested uh
for impeding the freedom of religion.
Okay. And he's still in jail today, is
he? Yes, he's in jail and and about 70
of his followers are still in jail.
Though the media in Morocco reports
about 24, okay, but then the media in
Morocco is heavily controlled by the
government. So, you know that you have
to take that into account. Now, at the
King's Behest, I know that the
government has offered the carrot,
hasn't it? It said that there's going to
be pumping millions of deer arms into
infrastructure projects. Yes. In the
north and economic uh reform. Uh, is
that likely to happen? Is that is that
just sort of uh Well, you know, King
Muhammad, yeah, King Muhammad V 6th is
is
actually a very progressive guy. You
know, I wouldn't say he's a bad guy
because he's, you know, when when you go
to Morocco, you will see what he's done
to that country. But at the same time,
politics is politics. You know, there is
there's no two ways about it.
Um he is not going to repeat what his
father did.
Not send the troops in. Yes. Send the
troops in because he sent a very high
power delegation with a lot of ministers
to go into the area and sit down uh with
these people with a couple of parties
over there and they issued a joint
statement saying that you know the
government is going to look after their
needs now. Uh but it is a question of
too little too late. is people have been
have been protesting since years now and
nothing has happened. Uh there's a lot
of lip service going on that there's
going to be you know you're going to
have this development, you're going to
have that development, people are going
to have jobs. Um you know and these guys
are just protesting about their freedom
and social justice and dignity. All
that's all they want it is. So it is not
a revolution per se,
right? So no one's calling for the king
to step down or anything like that.
Exactly. They just they you know they
have very simple demands. Treat us like
you treat everybody else. And there is a
divide in Morocco, isn't there? Between
the big cities like Rabbat and the areas
in the north that haven't had the
economic progress that perhaps other
regions have. Yeah. Yeah, there is. And
especially especially when you talk
about the uh the Berber people, right?
Uh the Berber people are um you know the
the word Berber first comes from from
the Roman word
barbarian. So they are they are known
fighters
you know and u when Morocco was fighting
for its independence from France uh the
elite were were too busy smoozing the
French while the Berber were actually
fighting for independence. So they have
a stake in the country.
You know, and that is the reason why
when um Ze Zafi was was arrested. Yeah.
And um 70 of his followers were
arrested, 600 lawyers came out and
registered to provide free services and
defend them in courts. Wow. That's quite
impressive. Yeah. Um and so, you know,
and and the government has actually
asked Zeafi to sit on a table with them.
Okay. um and and try to, you know, try
to sort this situation out. But he he
still refuses. Well, the Arab Spring did
hit Morocco, didn't it? In 2011, we had
the February the 20th movement, but it
went in a different direction, didn't
it, from elsewhere. Yeah, Morocco has
been very progressive that way. That's
why I said, you know, this king is is is
a very smart chap. He is. And um you
know, he controlled that so it actually
didn't he concede quite a few reforms.
Yes, he did. Yes, he did. And and this
is the reason why Morocco is where it is
right now because he because he's open
to ideas. He's he's progressive. So, you
know, when he says he's going to do
something,
um, he probably will do it. But the
problem is that the government in Rabbat
is so far away from these areas
that, um, you know, once it is, it is
kind of like out of sight, out of mind.
Yeah. Unless unless you know, reminders
like this happen
to to let the government robot know
that, okay, we're still here.
And we haven't gotten anything as yet as
you promised. Devolution perhaps could
could be a solution couldn't evolving
powers to the north. Yeah, it could
economic it could and and and in some
sorts it is there. The problem is see
the problem one of the biggest problems
with with um Arabic countries is the
power that the police yield.
They have way too much power in their
hands. uh for example if you take if you
take u you know the the example of Saudi
Arabia they have the Sharia police you
know those people are allowed to do a
anything and everything
you know including taking people and
just throwing them on the road
um and and um you know the police in in
the Rift region are doing exactly the
same okay they um there was a protest
which was actually started by Ze Zafi's
mother and a A lot of women went to this
protest and the police actually made a
wall around them. Okay. And did not let
Zafi's mother come into the protest
at all.
And so the police have a lot of powers.
Are they a law unto themselves? I mean,
is it the government telling them to do
this, do you think, or is it just the
No, no, it is it is the government
telling them to do this. They can't do
that on their own. I I think it is the
government telling them what to do. M u
because now they have him, it's going to
be tough for them to release him even
though they're talking about concessions
and and reforms and everything, but you
know, politics is politics. There's So,
how will this pan out? Do you think just
briefly at the do you think that this
will have a generally peaceful solution
as before in Morocco or do you think
there is a danger that it could escalate
and if the concessions aren't made and
aren't carried out? I think I think
there is going to be a peaceful
resolution to this. But the downside of
it is that there's a couple of parties
over there in the riff region who have
sided with the government already and
have issued a joint communicate about
sitting down with the government and the
government offering all these
concessions to them. But that's nothing
to do with al-Hak.
Now these parties in absence of ze zafi
these parties are the ones that are
going to benefit
you know they will they will go on with
the government and then they will try to
quell this situation and say the
government is doing this the government
is doing this we're looking after you
and it will die down but not permanently
because there's always another zeafi in
the in in the wings somewhere All right.
Going to come out and do it again. Well,
Dr. Rabine, thank you so much for
shedding some light on the events in
Morocco for us on the spot. Nick, you're
welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Don't go away because after the break,
we'll be lifting the lid on who really
rules the world.
[Music]
Welcome back to Sportnick with me, Neil
Clark, standing in for my good friends
George and Gatry. We live in a world
where just eight people, yes, eight
people own half the world's wealth. A
free market accident. Well, according to
the former Financial Times journalist
turned rogue reporter Matt Kennard, it's
all by design. Matt, very warm welcome
on board the Sputnik. Thanks for having
me. Your book, The Racket, is absolutely
brilliant, absolutely sensational. You
basically uh reveal, don't you, how how
the world works. Well, I tried to. I
mean, I was I was at the Financial Times
for two and a half years. Um, and went
there after studying in the United
States. My CV was good. I mean, that's
how I got into the Financial Times. But
I always had a critical mind when I went
there. So, I used my time there pretty
consciously to uncover uh and ask
questions uh uh about issues that most
people at the Financial Times just don't
ask because they don't think these
things. So, um I traveled the world. uh
I spoke to people uh across Latin
America, Africa, Asia and really started
to understand just who really has the
power in our world and it's not the
politicians on our screens really. Most
of them are puppets for another force
which is finance capital. Yeah. And
these are the racketeers phrase. Yeah.
Yeah. No, I was going to say and it
basically does run like a mafia. you
have um a whole system set up which is
development banks, the IMF, the World
Bank, um uh obviously hedge funds, uh
banks that loan to different uh to
different businesses and and people and
all the all these people have uh
construct ideology to legitimate what
they do to the world. So, so most people
don't understand how the world really
works because all they're fed all this
nonsense, this ideology about how it's
how free market capitalism is all to
alleviate poverty. If you read the World
Bank's uh literature, their fundamental
goal is to alleviate poverty, which is
hilarious really because they are the
main agents of stopping that happening.
And what is really interesting to look
at the how the world works is really
what happens when there's a fly in the
ointment. And that's what I really
looked at in the book. Uh I looked
extensively at Bolivia. Yeah. Where
there was the rise of Eva Morales in
2005 who is this former Koka picker who
was a trade unionist and rose and became
the first indigenous president in in the
country's history and in Latin America's
history and he really was came under
sustained attack from the United States
uh government and all the different
agencies that work for them. So I'm
talking about that. You talk about the
acronyms in the book
don't Yeah. Exactly. And it is and it's
very hard to piece together because it
the way the system works is so beautiful
in a way because because there it's very
hard to pin them down at any particular
points. You have to that's why someone
like Morales uh found it very hard when
he first came in to really know where he
was under attack from because obviously
the CIA don't publicize their programs.
US aid is meant is is meant to be this
really beneficent uh institution in this
country and they have tons of money. So
but eventually he started kicking them
out. So he kicked out USA, he kicked out
the Drug Enforcement Administration and
he liberated his country and that is
what you have to do. There's a there's a
famous Hugo Chavis quote where someone
asked him why you why are you so
anti-American and he said you know what
I would love to get on well with America
but if you want to do what I want to do
you can't get on with America because
you step on the toes of the empire and
the empire knows where its interests are
and knows people who are not going to
help them enforce it. People like
Chavez, people like Morales, people like
Corbyn. I mean it's happening across the
world that this system has run well
enough for a time in the neoliberal
period for these people but increasingly
uh people are waking up and and electing
leaders that really are challenging the
the the fundamentals of this system.
Yeah. And you describe an intricate web
don't you of control by this global
financial elite through these various
agencies to get their way and the
pressures that are put on governments
which Exactly. And governments the the
the funny thing that I I found when I
was doing my reporting in most countries
in the world governments aren't there to
represent the people they are meant to
represent. What they are there for is to
be mediators between financial capital
and corporations and the resources in
their country. So you have I don't Haiti
for example for hundreds of years was
was uh was ruled by the French and then
the United States and was basically just
a a playground for finance capital. When
someone like Aristid came in immediately
he wanted to nationalize and do some he
wasn't even that radical but he was he
was radical enough that the United
States spirited him out of the country
twice. So that's what happens. That's
how the system works. It's an intricate
web that lives below the surface and you
hardly ever see it working in its real
awful way that it works because we have
don't have a media which which tells
people but every now and then you do you
do sort of it does expose itself and and
the role of the media I mean obviously
you ride in the heart of it working for
the FT and you put something very
interesting I remember saying that when
you talked about Hosny Mubarak and you
described him in one of your articles as
the USbacked dictator US back was taken
out. Yeah. Yeah. But then when you put
in I think it was about Hezbollah being
Iran backed that was kept in. So it's
like we're allowed to sometimes Exactly.
say who backed Hub and not others.
Right. Exactly. And that's what's so
interesting about working within the
corporate media is no one's telling you
not to say that. No one's saying don't
say USbacked Hosny Barak. But because of
you've been socialized so intensely
while you're there, you just don't think
these things. And I remember writing it.
I had a critical mind going in so I
could still carry on doing it. And I
wasn't particularly care I didn't care
about the career there. But if I had I
wouldn't have even bothered doing that.
I wouldn't even thought those things.
So, but as soon as I I actually thought
that was quite funny because I try I
thought I might as well try. I know I'm
leaving. And they did take it out. They
take it out. Yeah. So that's a very
explicit way of understanding how the
system operates. And of course, as we're
talking about a racket, a financial
elite which basically uh steals from the
rest from from the poor world every day.
when you're talking about that, you need
a massive ideological system on top of
it to make people not understand it and
to to make people ignorant of how it
really works because if people
understood then they wouldn't be able to
do what they get away with. They
wouldn't it just wouldn't happen. You
also mentioned the book you said that
where real democracies are the ones we
look down at and the ones we sneer at in
the West and that that's just because we
have a all the narratives which are
driven in our society by the media are
elite narratives. If you look at the
demographics of people in the media,
they're all private school educated,
white, uh went to probably the same
schools and that has a m the millu
effect has a is has a massive effect.
People just all think the same sort of
things. So when they see they don't
understand Bolivia, most of people would
would never have been there would
wouldn't know anything about the
politics. So they'll just read some
column in the Wall Street Journal saying
he's a ever Morales is a narco terrorist
and that's and that's it. So, but when
you go there and you start understanding
that that's it's actually one of the
most democratic societies in the world,
then it it really flips that all around.
It's interesting, isn't it, that Hugo
Chavez was demonized as a dictator,
wasn't he? He always routinely called a
dictator yet he won how many elections
or how many referendum 13 or whatever.
Exactly. And yet Sahar by contrast in
Indonesia who had you know genocide in
East Timor etc. Yep. Never called that
or call that. You can you can really
correlate how a leader is treated in the
in the developing what's called the the
global south now by how nice they are to
to international capital. So the really
interesting case in Latin America is
Lula in Brazil who I like a lot and was
a trade unionist uh and did many many
good things in Brazil but he was not as
radical as Morales uh or Chavez. He
didn't really go in for the
nationalizations in a big way. He didn't
really touch the money that was already
accumulated in the 1% in Brazil. He just
sort of dispersed it a bit better. And
obviously the international media loved
him. He was like the darling of the New
York Times. And that and you can really
correlate that in in all ways. Really a
leader becomes more and more demonized
the more they have a sort of adversarial
um uh opinion of uh financial capital.
That's just how it works. and it squeeze
and then you get the whole propaganda
war of where I mean in Venezuela now
they're accusing the the Americans are
accusing close associates of Madura of
being narot traffickers and all this
stuff comes out again and again they did
it in Panama. I mean it's all it's all
the same sort of propaganda is put out
just to destroy anyone who lifts a
finger against the system running as it
should. And for your book, you interview
a wide range of people, didn't you?
Including Henry Kissinger. Well, I
didn't interview him. I was a student at
Columbia University in New York and uh
in fact it's quite an interesting story
because it really shows how how um
dosile the elite media is now Columbia
University New York the journalism
school there is meant to be the best in
the world and Henry Kissinger came and
we had the journalism students there
asking him things like what's your
favorite color what do you think of the
human rights situation in China which is
a fair question to someone who's not a a
a war criminal who's murdered millions
of people in in East Asia and other
places. So I sort of thought, well, I'm
not going to be happy with myself unless
I just sort of break up this love fest.
So I just said to him, how do you sleep
at night? And he said and he sort of
everyone sort of was shocked and looked
around and he said in his funny voice,
"How do how do you uh substantiate
that?" And I sort of went on about east.
Yeah, exactly. I don't have all day.
Yeah, exactly. But Eastmore, Bangladesh,
uh, Chile, uh, and then I sort of and
then he just a journalism professor got
up and stood next to him and sort of
made it clear that I should shut up. So
anyway, that I guess we could call that
an interview, but it was more
confrontation. I mean, but uh, yeah, I
did the the great thing about the
Financial Times and what I wanted to use
it for was the access you get. The
access you get is incredible. I was in
Washington DC for 6 months and also in
New York as well and I had access to all
the top people on Wall Street, all the
politicians that I wanted to speak to in
Washington DC and it's an amazing
resource. I'll never have it again. So I
cons I was very conscious that I should
use it to ask questions that aren't
asked usually and to really sort of uh
understand the system from within which
is very hard to do. There's many many
good analysts which who write about the
system from without and I'm going to be
doing that for the rest of my life now.
But I thought I should use this
opportunity while I can to to do that
because it is dismissed isn't it
sometimes as a conspiracy theory when we
talk about you know financial elites.
Yeah. We have the gatekeepers come along
and so that's just conspiracy theories.
We have democracies. We have freedom and
this is just sort of leftwing nonsense
isn't it? But it's a funny thing the
conspiracy theory thing because if when
when a right-wing newspaper talks about
a teachers union wanting better wages
for their teachers no one calls that a
conspiracy theory. M and it's true
people get together and look look out
for their interests. Teachers obviously
are looking for better wages through
their union. But if you think if you
start saying the 1% who own all our the
wealth of our world actually have some
sort of consciousness about retaining
that wealth and increasing it then
you're conspiracy theorist conspiracy
theory. They don't they apparently the
richest people in our society don't have
any sort of strategic view of how to
make that money uh uh increase. So I
think that conspiracy theories is one of
the many many ways that uh critical
journalists critical minds are
marginalized and that's another thing
that I learned at the FT is that there's
very very powerful ways of stopping
anyone with a critical mind uh climbing
the ladder of the mainstream media. You
just can't and I I understand you get
branded don't you? you get brand there's
words like I was called a maverick and
all these sort of patronizing terms that
sort of make you and it's very very hard
to go into work for 10 20 years and feel
completely at odds with everyone around
you and be called those names so most
people just leave and I don't pressure
to conform is enormous isn't it huge and
that's how all power systems work they
work by by by creating a new generation
of people that are going to support the
same system otherwise they would
disintegrate very fast so you people And
what's quite funny is people get very
arrogant. So people sit at top the
mainstream media in in in the UK and
work for Murdoch and people like that
and then talk to people, I don't know,
people who work for RT and others and
say, "Oh, you're you're just working for
a state propaganda outlet." And they
don't think it's weird. Yeah. They don't
think it's weird that they work for
Australian oligarch who who has who who
has much more extreme politics than a
lot of the people on here. It's just
they can't see that in some ways they're
looking in a mirror, but for them
they're completely free and in a sense
they are free because they can say what
they like because Rupert Murdoch likes
what they say. So that's how the media
works. Absolutely. Well, Matt, thank you
so much for coming on the sport today.
All the very best to you. Thanks.
Well, unfortunately that's all we have
time for on the sport this week. I've
been Neil Clark standing in for George
and Gatry and as George would say, it's
been
marvelous. Heat. Heat.