1 00:00:02,470 --> 00:00:06,450 [Music] 2 00:00:13,679 --> 00:00:17,879 okay I get 3 00:00:29,870 --> 00:00:32,929 [Music] 4 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:42,239 welcome to the Sputnik with me sir sir 5 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,559 wonger you know there's an awful lot of 6 00:00:42,239 --> 00:00:47,960 nonsense written on the internet about 7 00:00:44,559 --> 00:00:50,719 how the world is run by lizards I ask 8 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:53,760 you I've just been appointed the head of 9 00:00:50,719 --> 00:00:56,879 the World Bank and I'm shortly also to 10 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:59,480 become the Secretary General of NATO and 11 00:00:56,879 --> 00:01:01,399 the head of the EU commission so you can 12 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,280 see what a lot of nonsense this lizard 13 00:01:01,399 --> 00:01:07,479 stuff really is can't 14 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:09,200 you sorry mate lizards may or may not 15 00:01:07,479 --> 00:01:11,520 rule the world but they don't present 16 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,200 Sputnik my name is Neil Clark and I'm 17 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:16,040 not a lizard and I am presenting Sputnik 18 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,240 for my good friends George and 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,840 gatrie this week it gives me great 20 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,280 pleasure to introduce a very special 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,119 guest to the program he's the man who 22 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,280 for over 50 years has been defying The 23 00:01:24,119 --> 00:01:27,799 Establishment Gatekeepers to tell us the 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,400 truth about what's really going on in 25 00:01:27,799 --> 00:01:32,399 the world he's reported from War zones 26 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,840 from Vietnam to Iraq and produced 27 00:01:32,399 --> 00:01:37,600 several award-winning films the latest 28 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,439 being the coming war on China he's my 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:44,360 journalistic hero and I expect he's 30 00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:47,119 yours too he is Mr John Pilger John a 31 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:49,320 very warm welcome on thank you so much 32 00:01:47,119 --> 00:01:51,840 for coming on John where should we start 33 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:54,119 should we start talking about the events 34 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,399 of the UK general election you you 35 00:01:54,119 --> 00:01:57,640 started on Fleet Street didn't you in ' 36 00:01:55,399 --> 00:02:00,039 62 I did have you seen anything as 37 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:04,280 extraordinary as what happened last week 38 00:02:00,039 --> 00:02:07,240 no I suppose um I 39 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:09,479 remember Harold Wilson coming to power 40 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:13,280 but that was kind of expected you know 41 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:17,000 they it was ready 13 years of Tory rule 42 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:18,280 Miss rule as they called it but uh this 43 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,879 Jeremy 44 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,200 Corbin 45 00:02:19,879 --> 00:02:24,560 achievement not quite a win but 46 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,519 certainly a 47 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:33,040 Triumph uh is wonderful on so many 48 00:02:27,519 --> 00:02:37,680 levels because it it has has proven all 49 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:41,280 the the the forces that range against 50 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:44,519 the most moderate the most modest 51 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:48,720 opposition to extreme policies in this 52 00:02:44,519 --> 00:02:50,599 country it has proved that uh they they 53 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,920 they're wrong when you think of all 54 00:02:50,599 --> 00:02:55,280 those thousands of students that 55 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:57,640 registered at the last minute and the 56 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,239 numbers that have joined the labor party 57 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:03,000 and since joined the labor party it's 58 00:02:59,239 --> 00:03:07,120 beyond the labor party in a sense it's a 59 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:09,840 rebellion and just in in the same way 60 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:12,120 though not exactly the same of course 61 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:16,159 the brexit vote was a 62 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:20,120 rebellion and and not painted as it has 63 00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:22,840 been since then but this was uh a full 64 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:26,920 throated raar there's no question about 65 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:29,120 that uh and it will be very interesting 66 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:30,959 to see what happens this year with 67 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,000 another election I understand Jeremy 68 00:03:30,959 --> 00:03:37,360 Corbin thinks there will be an election 69 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:40,480 in September or October I read that he 70 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:43,920 told uh somebody on his allotment that 71 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:46,000 was what he thought I don't know I would 72 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:48,879 guess and I'm not a futurist and I 73 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:51,560 hesitate but I would guess anyway that 74 00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:53,040 he would win then that's extraordinary 75 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,959 yeah and I think one angle of this is 76 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,280 the way there was this people defying 77 00:03:54,959 --> 00:03:57,760 the What I Call The Gatekeepers you know 78 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,239 the establishment Gatekeepers who told 79 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:03,040 us ad nauseum you know don't vote for 80 00:04:00,239 --> 00:04:05,400 this man he's a pariah he's a terrorist 81 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,519 sympathizer you name it he was it and 82 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:11,959 yet 40% of the voters still went out 83 00:04:07,519 --> 00:04:15,079 there and B two fingers up that's all so 84 00:04:11,959 --> 00:04:19,479 absurd and you know this is a 85 00:04:15,079 --> 00:04:23,000 sophisticated Society it was so absurd 86 00:04:19,479 --> 00:04:26,639 calling Jeremy Corbin giving him that 87 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:28,639 kind of level of abuse um you know so 88 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:31,199 backfired you're saying really it's back 89 00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:35,800 backfired I fig I actually think it's 90 00:04:31,199 --> 00:04:39,479 the end of the power of the the tabloids 91 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:42,039 that have crowed that they actually Were 92 00:04:39,479 --> 00:04:44,000 King makers well R murd actually said 93 00:04:42,039 --> 00:04:45,280 didn't he boasted that yes no prime 94 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:49,320 minister that he didn't support had been 95 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:52,479 elected yes I think 74 74 I I'm I'm 96 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:55,039 pretty sure that's over it's so 97 00:04:52,479 --> 00:04:58,000 heartening that they could really say 98 00:04:55,039 --> 00:05:01,960 anything about Jeremy Corbin and they 99 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:04,720 almost did and he he his supporters 100 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:08,280 would ignore it a lot has to do with the 101 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:12,240 whole change in in particularly in young 102 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:16,520 people's media habits as it were their 103 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:18,199 uh their social media creatures now uh 104 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:22,160 most of them 105 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:24,319 newspapers have made themselves in many 106 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,800 respects defunct they're not actually 107 00:05:24,319 --> 00:05:28,199 people newspapers as such people 108 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,360 actually quite like they like the 109 00:05:28,199 --> 00:05:34,120 visceral idea of the newspaper it it's 110 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,960 like books it appeals right across the 111 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,199 generations but 112 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:42,479 newspapers playing this extraordinary 113 00:05:39,199 --> 00:05:44,319 propaganda card have really destroyed 114 00:05:42,479 --> 00:05:47,479 their own 115 00:05:44,319 --> 00:05:49,600 power uh at election time in this 116 00:05:47,479 --> 00:05:51,319 country it's it's quite wondrous to 117 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,840 behold but they become views papers 118 00:05:51,319 --> 00:05:54,520 haven't they really compared to when you 119 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:56,680 first started in the 60s we had the 120 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,160 comment page didn't we and then but the 121 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,680 rest of the paper was object more or 122 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,960 less pretty objective news you've gone 123 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,759 the other way around now isn't it and 124 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:06,319 it's it's just sort of opinion and news 125 00:06:02,759 --> 00:06:10,560 a views rather dominate views dominate 126 00:06:06,319 --> 00:06:14,360 that's uh the reporter is not as cele 127 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:18,319 the great reporter is not as celebrated 128 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:20,720 as the great windbag yes right uh and 129 00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:24,599 what we have is a whole if you take the 130 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:27,599 guardian a whole uh stable of precocious 131 00:06:24,599 --> 00:06:30,199 windbags great reporting is quite 132 00:06:27,599 --> 00:06:31,720 different great reporting 133 00:06:30,199 --> 00:06:34,560 that draws 134 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:39,199 conclusions that seeks the truth through 135 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:41,520 evidence yeah uh and being the voice 136 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:45,960 from the bottom not from the top being 137 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:50,319 an agent of people not an agent of power 138 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:53,840 that kind of idea of Journalism that is 139 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:56,560 that it exists in honorable exceptions 140 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:58,720 in the so-call mainstream media but 141 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,360 that's really what we're missing and 142 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:03,199 that's why they got it so wrong you 143 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,680 wrote a wonderful piece which I love in 144 00:07:03,199 --> 00:07:08,000 2014 called The Return of George Orwell 145 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,080 let me just quote from this you said 146 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,120 that when I began a career in Britain's 147 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,000 Fleet Street in the 1960s it was 148 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,199 acceptable to critique Western power as 149 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,639 a rapacious force and you quoted of 150 00:07:16,199 --> 00:07:19,599 course the great James Cameron the 151 00:07:17,639 --> 00:07:21,160 reporter who reported on the war in 152 00:07:19,599 --> 00:07:24,479 Korea and the American bombing of North 153 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:26,919 Vietnam and you said that contrast today 154 00:07:24,479 --> 00:07:28,840 that dissent in politics as in 155 00:07:26,919 --> 00:07:31,160 journalism and the Arts it seems that 156 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,840 descent once tolerated in the mainstream 157 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,840 has regressed to a dissidence a 158 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,039 metaphoric underground in the way that 159 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:40,879 basically you could there was more space 160 00:07:37,039 --> 00:07:42,720 to critique Western power in the 60s and 161 00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:45,240 70s and there is now yes there were 162 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:48,159 always Gatekeepers and the Press was 163 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,120 always conservative and the Press always 164 00:07:48,159 --> 00:07:53,319 represented vested 165 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:56,039 interests uh but Beaver Brook's standard 166 00:07:53,319 --> 00:08:00,039 could employ the likes of James 167 00:07:56,039 --> 00:08:03,440 Cameron uh and my own career on the 168 00:08:00,039 --> 00:08:05,840 mirror uh which was solidly on the right 169 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:09,520 of the labor party most of the time 170 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:14,159 right um I think said something about 171 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:16,599 that it's it's it it it 172 00:08:14,159 --> 00:08:20,280 pushed desting 173 00:08:16,599 --> 00:08:22,919 journalism which is one definition of 174 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:25,879 real journalism because why have 175 00:08:22,919 --> 00:08:28,639 journalism at all if it is not going to 176 00:08:25,879 --> 00:08:31,199 descent from the received wisdom if it's 177 00:08:28,639 --> 00:08:34,800 not going to find out if it's not going 178 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:37,360 to push down facades and and and and 179 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:40,399 lift rocks and find out that's 180 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:44,680 journalism it doesn't have to be align 181 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:48,880 with any political party but it it it 182 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:51,720 does have to be a dissenter so when you 183 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:55,279 destroy that whole notion of Journalism 184 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:59,959 as a dissenter and make the the media 185 00:08:55,279 --> 00:09:02,760 simply a a fog horn right yeah uh for 186 00:08:59,959 --> 00:09:06,360 whatever establishment receive wisdom 187 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:09,040 yeah is uh is out there uh as it largely 188 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:11,959 has become it's divided into factions of 189 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,640 course you have the the traditional Tory 190 00:09:11,959 --> 00:09:17,279 right in the in the telegraph you have 191 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:19,519 the Murdoch right in the times you have 192 00:09:17,279 --> 00:09:24,160 the liberal right in the guardian and so 193 00:09:19,519 --> 00:09:28,120 on um but it's not that's not just that 194 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:33,000 that is not journalism as such it's it's 195 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:35,519 a it's a form of of um it's a form of 196 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,519 propaganda as we saw in this election 197 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:39,079 campaign and they all agreed don't they 198 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:41,320 on on big issues a couple of issues I 199 00:09:39,079 --> 00:09:42,839 think they all agree on is Russia the 200 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,720 demonization of Russia and also the 201 00:09:42,839 --> 00:09:48,839 demonization of Julian Assange yeah well 202 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:51,760 the I mean the creation of a second cold 203 00:09:48,839 --> 00:09:54,920 war is a Wonder to 204 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:58,079 behold it is such a 205 00:09:54,920 --> 00:10:03,279 nonsense every bit about it is nonsense 206 00:09:58,079 --> 00:10:05,399 in the United States not bad here uh uh 207 00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:06,760 in the the United States there's a kind 208 00:10:05,399 --> 00:10:11,680 of a 209 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:14,720 steria now um and this this 210 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:18,839 Congressional committee that is hearing 211 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:22,120 the likes of uh James Comey the former 212 00:10:18,839 --> 00:10:25,440 head of America's political police the 213 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:27,839 FBI as an objective witness this is the 214 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:30,120 FBI which was run by Jed G Hoover all 215 00:10:27,839 --> 00:10:34,920 that time he tried to M everyone on 216 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:38,760 Earth the it it the there is there is 217 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:43,120 there is no evidence none whatsoever 218 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:45,079 even the idea that Russia has interfered 219 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:48,120 in the election how did it change the 220 00:10:45,079 --> 00:10:50,959 election what ballots were changed how 221 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:55,959 did it get into those boxes what states 222 00:10:50,959 --> 00:10:58,320 didn't vote um for uh for the candidate 223 00:10:55,959 --> 00:11:01,440 that should have won uh because of 224 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:05,440 Russian interference the whole thing is 225 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:07,399 nonsense and yet the you have newspapers 226 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,600 so-called newspapers of record like the 227 00:11:07,399 --> 00:11:14,000 New York Times saying in effect the 228 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:16,160 Russians are coming uh KY himself said 229 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,600 uh which was reported widely across the 230 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,639 US the last couple of days they're 231 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:23,680 coming to get America I think I quote 232 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:26,800 him exactly I mean in a soall 233 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:30,120 Information Age which really is not so 234 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:35,040 much an information age as a media age 235 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:37,440 to have this this tsunami of propaganda 236 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:40,959 about Russia and about the Russian 237 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:43,040 president the Distortion of facts the 238 00:11:40,959 --> 00:11:48,079 invasions that don't 239 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:51,760 happen um you know you are we living in 240 00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:55,639 a kind of it's a sort of almost a 241 00:11:51,760 --> 00:12:00,279 virtual fantasy world in a sense if you 242 00:11:55,639 --> 00:12:02,880 rely on the So-Cal mainstream media and 243 00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:06,519 I don't like that term because it's it's 244 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:09,519 really an extreme propaganda actually 245 00:12:06,519 --> 00:12:12,680 mainstream suggests for me the kind of 246 00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:15,920 people who voted for Jeremy Corbin but 247 00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:18,959 yesing isn't it the real will and it's a 248 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:23,639 term that that we should mentally put in 249 00:12:18,959 --> 00:12:24,760 inverted commas all the time um but it's 250 00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:27,920 it's 251 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:30,880 uh it's some it's something I think most 252 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:35,120 people know now are really understanding 253 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:38,320 I I think the media is the most popular 254 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:41,839 subject now right across the country 255 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:44,360 whenever I excuse me do public meetings 256 00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:47,560 or whatever what they want to talk about 257 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:50,839 is the media and propaganda and I think 258 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:54,959 that the the the I think it's out and 259 00:12:50,839 --> 00:12:59,240 this this election in which those and 260 00:12:54,959 --> 00:13:02,320 which the male devoted 13 pages of 261 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:04,760 denigration of Jeremy Corbin a few days 262 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:08,360 before the election were 263 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:10,920 ignored uh the sun was ignored and all 264 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,160 the rest of the propaganda was ignored I 265 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,560 think people are on to it so hopefully 266 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,440 things have changed and things will will 267 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:17,920 continue to change yes John it's been an 268 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,399 absolute pleasure to have you on the 269 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,839 spot you got to come on again soon and 270 00:13:19,399 --> 00:13:24,360 we can continue this discussion very 271 00:13:21,839 --> 00:13:29,120 welcome thank you after the break we get 272 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:29,120 serious about Syria stay tuned 273 00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:36,880 welcome back to Sputnik with me Neil 274 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,399 Clark standing in for Georg and gaty 275 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,600 this week the United Nations said that 276 00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:42,920 the US Le Coalition air strikes on raaka 277 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,639 in Syria had led to a staggering loss of 278 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:47,560 civilian life the US has also admitted 279 00:13:45,639 --> 00:13:49,360 to using white phosphorus a chemical 280 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:51,519 weapon but the media reaction in the 281 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,199 west has been muted to say the least 282 00:13:51,519 --> 00:13:55,240 it's all a far cry from the headlines 283 00:13:53,199 --> 00:13:56,800 when Syrian forces with Russian support 284 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,480 were trying to liberate Aleppo in 285 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:02,000 December then the talk was of a h horse 286 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,880 taking place joining me now to discuss 287 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,000 these glaring double standards is the 288 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:08,000 journalist Vanessa Bey who has visited 289 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,800 and reported from Syria several times 290 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,800 during the current conflict Vanessa a 291 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,680 very warm welcome on board the Sputnik 292 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,600 you've been in Syria several times 293 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:18,560 haven't you during the conflict and in 294 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,800 December when the uh liberation of 295 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:22,120 Aleppo was taking place you were there 296 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,440 weren't you and the headlines here at 297 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:26,240 the time were that this was a holocaust 298 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,600 this was a genocide we we had to 299 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,759 intervene to stop this what was the 300 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,160 reality on the ground it was 301 00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:33,079 extraordinary it was an extraordinary 302 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,480 time because being on the ground there 303 00:14:33,079 --> 00:14:37,720 um both in August during the heat of 304 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:40,399 some of the battles um to the south of 305 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,399 the city of Aleppo um by the Syrian Army 306 00:14:40,399 --> 00:14:44,000 to regain ground that had been taken by 307 00:14:42,399 --> 00:14:47,399 the various extremist and militant 308 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:49,600 factions and then basically being in EAS 309 00:14:47,399 --> 00:14:51,079 leppo during the liberation of the 310 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:54,199 various districts of 311 00:14:51,079 --> 00:14:56,040 eppo um watching events unfold on the 312 00:14:54,199 --> 00:14:58,279 ground speaking to people as they 313 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,880 emerged from what was effectively a 314 00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:03,279 5year 315 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:06,360 occupation um by nusra front l so 316 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:08,360 alqaeda LED and dominated extremist 317 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,920 factions funded of course by our 318 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:13,800 governments and the Gulf States and 319 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,720 equipped by turkey etc etc um and then 320 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,160 to be witnessing events on the ground to 321 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,639 be witnessing the 322 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:23,759 celebrations of the people at their 323 00:15:19,639 --> 00:15:26,560 Liberation um to be seeing um the care 324 00:15:23,759 --> 00:15:28,680 that the Syrian Arab Army and uh its 325 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,079 Russian allies were taking to provide 326 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:34,120 the humanitarian corridors to evacuate 327 00:15:31,079 --> 00:15:36,800 civilians from districts prior to going 328 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:39,600 in and basically cleansing them of the 329 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:42,480 various terrorist factions um and then 330 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:45,240 to hear this almost sort of parallel 331 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:49,759 Dimension going on outside of 332 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:52,440 Syria Amplified by our media by the UN 333 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:53,880 by NATO aligned Nos and as you said by 334 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,600 the government in Britain I mean it was 335 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,000 sort of it was quite extraordinary there 336 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,560 was one particular story that broke 337 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,440 while I was there 338 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:04,880 um which was the story of um the Syrian 339 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,279 women in a particular District about to 340 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,800 commit mass suicide because the Syrian 341 00:16:07,279 --> 00:16:11,720 Arab Army were going to rape them or 342 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,759 that the Syrian Arab Army were attacking 343 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,759 their own civilians one I was there and 344 00:16:14,759 --> 00:16:19,120 I was on the ground and and and there 345 00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:22,720 was absolutely no evidence of this there 346 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:24,600 was sheer Jubilation from um the people 347 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,199 of Syria to be liberated from this 348 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,759 terrorist occupation but also um 349 00:16:27,199 --> 00:16:29,920 something that people just don't seem to 350 00:16:28,759 --> 00:16:32,319 understand understand is that the Syrian 351 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:35,120 Arab Army is the Syrian people it comes 352 00:16:32,319 --> 00:16:38,440 from the Syrian 353 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:40,839 families exactly and many of them were 354 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:43,000 coming back to their homes in East 355 00:16:40,839 --> 00:16:46,680 Aleppo so this was one of the most 356 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:49,079 obscene grotesque distortions of truth 357 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:51,839 that I've ever actually sort of been 358 00:16:49,079 --> 00:16:54,240 able to witness firsthand I mean and 359 00:16:51,839 --> 00:16:56,720 plus you know you we're talking here um 360 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:59,519 a Muslim Society to even suggest that 361 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:03,000 women in this society would one Mass 362 00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:05,360 commit suicide shows a clear lack of 363 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,679 understanding of that Society itself so 364 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:10,760 I mean it yeah it was extraordinary it 365 00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:12,640 was sort of um completely Twilight Zone 366 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,480 to be honest and now we got Rapa haven't 367 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,959 we with the UN coming out talking about 368 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,600 staggering loss of civilian life it's 369 00:17:15,959 --> 00:17:19,640 incredible to see the lack of media 370 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,000 coverage about this and contrast it with 371 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,959 alipo when we was headlines it was the 372 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:27,039 headlines of the news this one is tucked 373 00:17:23,959 --> 00:17:30,559 away on page 16 isn't it literally I 374 00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:33,840 mean when you have um a nation and its 375 00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:37,840 Army and its state defending itself 376 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:41,080 against an illegal intervention of proxy 377 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:43,640 terrorist armies and brigades um 378 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:46,240 committing atrocities against human 379 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,760 beings inside Syria against civilians 380 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:52,039 not against uh the regime or against the 381 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:55,159 Army but not against military uh targets 382 00:17:52,039 --> 00:17:57,720 but actually almost universally against 383 00:17:55,159 --> 00:17:59,159 civilians purely because collectively 384 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,440 they've they've resisted this 385 00:17:59,159 --> 00:18:03,000 intervention so it's Collective 386 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:06,039 punishment of the civilian population 387 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:08,400 which is ignored by the media um but 388 00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:10,080 when you have uh an army that is 389 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:13,360 defending its country that is 390 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:16,280 recapturing its Homeland from these 391 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:18,640 these terrorist proxies um it's 392 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:22,000 described as you quite rightly said as 393 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:24,400 as gica or as Dresden or as a holocaust 394 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,760 or as a Waring isn't it you know and and 395 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,880 the media you know and this is where it 396 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,000 where it's criminal and we were just 397 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,080 talking about it and green room they 398 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,600 leave no space for any political or 399 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,880 diplomatic dialogue they amplify it to 400 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:39,240 such an extent that there is no recourse 401 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,880 except military action military 402 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:45,520 intervention it's criminal but then you 403 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:48,720 see the US Coalition dropping good bombs 404 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:53,039 you know on MOS yeah humanitarian you 405 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:54,600 know totally targeted bombs on on mosul 406 00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:56,919 and of course then civilians suddenly 407 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,720 are described as collateral damage 408 00:18:56,919 --> 00:19:02,240 whereas the US Coalition in mosul have 409 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,000 not provided any humanitarian corridors 410 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,320 they've not provided any humanitarian 411 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,960 assistance and equally in raqqa we're 412 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:11,080 seeing the use of chemical weapons uh 413 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,440 white phosphorus but it's very important 414 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,360 to mention that the US is also admitted 415 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,760 to using depleted uranium throughout 416 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:20,679 Syria as it has in every nation uh that 417 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,320 has been a pre nation that it's attacked 418 00:19:20,679 --> 00:19:24,919 Yugoslavia for example yeah exactly you 419 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,520 know we we've just had a report come out 420 00:19:24,919 --> 00:19:28,400 recently in the last couple of days but 421 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,520 they've used de depleted uranium they've 422 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:35,000 aded to it I have testimony from Syrian 423 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:37,400 arami soldiers on the ground of dreadful 424 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:40,440 effects of deated uranium bullets and 425 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,880 grenades and missiles um and here we 426 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:45,159 have the use of white phosphorus in Raa 427 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,080 against a civilian population why 428 00:19:45,159 --> 00:19:50,480 because it's effectively aiding their 429 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:52,919 proxy on the ground uh the SDF which 430 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,640 consists of course of of the Kurdish uh 431 00:19:52,919 --> 00:19:56,640 militants and I have to make a very 432 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,200 important Point here that many Kurds in 433 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,080 Syria support the Syrian state 434 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:04,880 support the Syrian Army and and they 435 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:08,280 don't want the Democratic Federation of 436 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:10,400 Kurdistan um but these Kurdish militants 437 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,799 that are being aided and abetted by the 438 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:15,120 US Coalition and effectively what we're 439 00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:17,880 seeing is an ethnic cleansing of raqa we 440 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:20,120 have to be very clear of this over 50% 441 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,760 of the population has been driven out 442 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:24,360 over the last few months but of course 443 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:27,400 now in a more um deliberate and 444 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:28,880 intensified way by the US Coalition 445 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,440 bombing campaign not only white 446 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,159 phosphorus but intense bombing campaign 447 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,159 and you know we're hearing reports of 448 00:20:33,159 --> 00:20:38,640 300 being killed but we know how the UN 449 00:20:36,159 --> 00:20:41,240 manipulates figures to serve various 450 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,320 geopolitical purposes so we can assume 451 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,039 that those figures are conservative 452 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,559 isn't it fair to say that the whole way 453 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:47,799 the Syrian conflict has been portrayed 454 00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:50,520 in much of the western media has been 455 00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:52,559 totally false is that going to yeah 456 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,760 because you know it's been portrayed as 457 00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:56,400 a wicked evil dictator who's Waging War 458 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,200 against his own people he has no support 459 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,400 in the country he's just trying to cling 460 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,799 on to power and we've got moderate 461 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,640 Rebels and all the yeah there might be a 462 00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:05,000 few nasty overthe toop characters but 463 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,559 they're moderate Rebels I know what 464 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,080 David remember David Cameron speech when 465 00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:10,360 he said how many there were thousands of 466 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,279 70,000 70,000 moderate Rebels came from 467 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,440 Charles list of course you know yeah 468 00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:15,799 quite so isn't it the argument for 469 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,120 saying that this the way the whole 470 00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:20,000 conflict has been presented has been 471 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:21,120 false and that I don't think I've ever 472 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,679 perhaps 473 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:28,159 because um you know Syria is such a 474 00:21:24,679 --> 00:21:31,159 unified secular State and basically 80% 475 00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:34,640 of population if not more during during 476 00:21:31,159 --> 00:21:36,760 this period of of intervention support 477 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,320 the Syrian State and the Syrian Army I 478 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,919 mean let's be very clear there's still 479 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,159 opposition members and there are still 480 00:21:39,919 --> 00:21:43,880 opposition on the ground in Syria that 481 00:21:42,159 --> 00:21:45,360 do not necessarily approve of the 482 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,000 government but they're supporting the 483 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:50,520 government in its resistance against 484 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,840 imperialism neocolonialism and an 485 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:56,000 attempt to to both carve up Syria 486 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:58,240 destabilize Syria and plunder Syria as 487 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,679 they've done in in Libya and Iraq of 488 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:04,919 course and yeah I mean Aleppo to me 489 00:22:01,679 --> 00:22:08,200 exemplified exactly what I call the 8020 490 00:22:04,919 --> 00:22:11,120 rule you know 80% of the population in 491 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:14,080 West Alpa 1.5 million the majority were 492 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:17,520 ignored by our media 80% of the 493 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:20,600 population in Syria living inside Syrian 494 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:23,240 government held areas are ignored the 495 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,960 20% that are living unfortunately for 496 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:28,000 them in Terrorist occupied areas let's 497 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,760 forget the moderate Rebel M because I 498 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,279 think that has pretty much been 499 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:35,600 eradicated you know 500 00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:37,919 conclusively um but that 20% living in 501 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,360 Terrorist hold areas are being used as 502 00:22:37,919 --> 00:22:42,360 human Shields they're being deprived of 503 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:45,120 humanitarian and Medical Aid they're 504 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:46,480 being starved they're being executed 505 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:50,840 they're being imprisoned they're being 506 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:53,279 raped they're being um you know tortured 507 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:56,440 um and so it's it's it's it's an 508 00:22:53,279 --> 00:22:58,559 incredible situation where in reality 509 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,240 what our media is is basing its 510 00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:02,840 narrative upon are it sources on the 511 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,039 ground very few of them are on the 512 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,080 ground inside Syria and they're basing 513 00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:09,799 their narrative upon sources that are 514 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:12,440 clearly and undeniably Affiliated to the 515 00:23:09,799 --> 00:23:13,440 extremist factions as in East Aleppo 516 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,840 well let's talk about these white 517 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,279 helmets there because I know you've done 518 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,840 a lot of research and work on this they 519 00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:19,960 were build up as this wonderful group 520 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,960 they were nominated for Nobel Peace 521 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,840 prizes Etc and they are you know 522 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,480 overwhelmingly presented as wonderful 523 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,360 humanitarians in Syria helping people 524 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,240 but your you're version is rather 525 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,840 different yeah I mean I know we have 526 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:36,559 very limited time so I'll try and 527 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:39,200 condense it um look basically um they're 528 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:41,520 a propaganda Shadow State construct 529 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,520 created primarily and funded primarily 530 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,880 by the UK through the conflict stability 531 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,919 and Security fund there's a lot of 532 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,120 funding for the UK I was really over 65 533 00:23:46,919 --> 00:23:51,240 million 65 million and that's without 534 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:53,159 and and Amber rad is very sort of uh 535 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,919 close close mouthed on this it's it's 536 00:23:53,159 --> 00:23:58,039 the secret conflict stability and 537 00:23:54,919 --> 00:23:59,840 Security fund let's say but what I would 538 00:23:58,039 --> 00:24:01,799 like to emphasizes that on my latest 539 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,400 trip to Aleppo I had the opportunity to 540 00:24:01,799 --> 00:24:06,720 go into the abandoned white helmet 541 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:09,080 centers when they had fled not with the 542 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,039 civilians but with nusra front to idlib 543 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:14,840 they're now in idlib with the various 544 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:18,840 extremist factions and what we found was 545 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:20,760 a very clear um alignment between n 546 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,200 front and the white helmets not only did 547 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,919 they share the same buildings in many of 548 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,600 the centers um they shared the same 549 00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:31,360 practices people civilians told us on 550 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,279 almost a daily basis that uh the white 551 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:35,559 helmets were working alongside nusra 552 00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:37,679 front they were nusra front civil 553 00:24:35,559 --> 00:24:39,960 defense they did not help civilians they 554 00:24:37,679 --> 00:24:42,399 stole from the civilians but they also 555 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:45,520 participated in various imprisonments 556 00:24:42,399 --> 00:24:48,440 and executions of those civilians we've 557 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,760 seen a recent uh film come out from Dada 558 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,960 in the south of Syria where they have 559 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,080 effectively yet again mopped up after 560 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,080 after an extra additional execution 561 00:24:55,080 --> 00:25:00,039 carried out by the terrorist factions 562 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:02,559 there yeah um and they were cheering 563 00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:04,080 this execution so they cannot be deemed 564 00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:06,520 as as 565 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:10,440 humanitarian um basically it's a 566 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:13,000 humanitarian construct that creates 567 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,520 camouflage um and protection for the 568 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,799 terrorist atrocities and both factions 569 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,760 are being funded by our governments 570 00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:21,919 thank you so much Vanessa for coming on 571 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,799 the sputnic and and telling us what's 572 00:25:21,919 --> 00:25:27,240 really going on in Syria thank you well 573 00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:29,440 I'm afraid that's all we got time for 574 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,320 this week on the Sputnik George and Gat 575 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,960 will be back next time but I'd like to 576 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,880 thank everyone for watching these last 577 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,720 few weeks and the great guests we've had 578 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:41,200 on the program too you know what it's 579 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,200 been marvelous 580 00:25:41,780 --> 00:25:49,390 [Music]