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I get
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gatri the
political situation on both sides of the
Atlantic is in total chaos at the time
of writing as they say Donald Trump is
still the president of the United States
but we can guarantee that that will be
true by the time you read this on this
side of the Atlantic the British
government is hanging by the tassels of
an orange sash Mrs May is prime minister
only by the grace and favor of 10 of the
murkiest members of parliament I ever
sat with in the House of Commons the
marching bands of the democratic
unionist party are now in control of
British State policy which is I promise
you not a good look our first guest
today happens to have had a vantage
point on both sides of the Atlantic he
is a former distinguished editor of the
leftwing newspaper Tribune when it was a
distinguished left-wing newspaper he
also was a parliamentary candidate and
may one day be one again at least I hope
so he worked for Banky Moon the UN
General Secretary as a speech writer and
political advisor he's even going to be
teaching at Colombia University in the
fall he is a man of Parts a renaissance
man former member of Labor's national
executive committee I better not forget
that because that might become important
for him and for me he is Mark sidden and
I welcome you to the Sputnik uh Mark uh
it's quite a CV you've uh developed I
could have mentioned you were a
correspondent for Al jazer television uh
and and as I've known you for decades
now uh I'm very proud of how you've got
on but from that unique vantage point on
both sides of the Atlantic you must like
me scratch your head at how both Britain
and the United States got here
scratching the head yes but do you know
what and I think this is where you and I
would probably uh agree that we we this
Vantage Point uh means that you can see
that the pollsters The commentariat Who
on both sides of the Atlantic seem to
have been talking to themselves and
living in an ivory tower for a very long
time have got it spectacularly wrong
again and again and again and I think
what there has been and what you can see
in the United States and in Britain and
in parts of Europe is essentially kind
of a Revolt of the Rust Belt if you like
essentially you know 30 40 Years of
neoliberal Economics have brought about
the most grotesque amount of uh poverty
and Division
and
de-industrialization and people have had
enough and uh in America people say oh
well what are you talking about Donald
Trump's president well in America I saw
and I've shared a platform with him a
few times in the past Bernie Sanders uh
from the left of politics in America
doing spectacularly well only being
frustrated at the last minute by the
Machinery of the democratic party uh who
had possibly the best chance of beating
Trump and Trump taking some of the
choice bits of that
policy agenda from Bernie Sanders and
appealing to bluecar America and here in
Britain um the most astonishing thing
with all the commentary at saying the
labor party's finished Jeremy Corbin has
no appeal and what have you what did we
see uh again you know the British labor
party now becomes the biggest left party
in Europe in the world if not the world
the world extraordinary thing certainly
uh in the in the Western World Without
uh without a shadow of a doubt Corbin
got a bigger increase in the labor votee
than any leader since Clement Atley in
1945 uh he got nearly 13 million votes
and by any measure stands on the
threshold of Downing Street especially
considering the chaos I tried to
describe uh of the British government uh
today Trea May cannot be much longer for
number 10
surely well I mean I think anybody who
makes predictions is going to be uh
laughed out of the out of the room in a
way but um I mean there's one thing that
people do tend to forget when they when
they look at this sort of this Coalition
that has been assembled this Coalition
of the Willing that we have been here
before uh with the major government and
their deals with the oler unionists and
th those deals persisted for a long time
with the dup the Democratic unionist
party even hard you know George even a
harder tougher Bunch uh of ster men and
women uh who are exacting a great deal
from this Magic Money Tree that the
Prime Minister said did not exist I'm
sure they will prop this government up
for as long as it takes and of course
when you look at the conservative party
now it's very difficult to see who they
can agree to take it forward and so they
have a prime minister um both wings of
the Tory party will want to manipulate
over brexit I'm I mean possibly she she
does cont continue for for for longer
than some of the commentators think she
might well that's an interesting uh
perspective uh I myself think she'll be
gone by the time of the conference
there's all kinds of strange things
happening there's a carnival of
publicity uh around uh Jacob Reese MOG a
former guest on this program sat exactly
where you were to me he's like sir Alec
Douglas Hume on on laughing gas uh but
he's being punted as a serious leader
for the conservative party yes really uh
the spreadsheet fill the desicated
calculating machine Philip Hammond
Chancellor of the exer David Davis the
only man who can strangle someone with
piano wire which a skill he learned
legitimately yes with the SS I actually
think of all of them that you just
mentioned and others that I've seen
talked about David Davis would be
possibly the uh pose the bigger threat
to the labor party I I think that he has
a an appeal um there's something um
quite natural about him and he has a
backstory that's interesting and real to
people so you know he's not a creation
of the we've had 30 years of
technocratic politicians andman and pmen
and David Davis is a serious politician
he is the brexit secretary the brexit is
the number one uh item on the British
political uh agenda he genuinely
believes in it uh as I do myself uh and
so I'm hoping he is the prime minister
because at least he'll be able to to
deliver what the British people voted
for and he too said here and he also is
a a former uh guest of ours but the the
Rust Belt point that you made uh I'm
particularly keen on because that's what
Trump that's what won it for Trump the
the the perception that their own party
the Democratic party long regarded as
the party for working people uh although
that began to change under Reagan uh but
long regarded as at least a party more
sympathetic to workers than the
Republicans uh they went the workers
there in Michigan in Pennsylvania and uh
and other such States Wisconson and
others they went for Trump because the
Democratic party seemed no longer to
represent them in any way and the same
was true of Labor under under the Blair
era wasn't it yes it was I I remember um
the first talk of triangulation the new
Democrats under Bill Clinton Tony Blair
coming back and writing a piece for the
evening standard he was taken by all of
this and T also Gordon Brown I mean he
went and uh came back with all this
stuff about endogenous growth Theory and
all this having sat there and listening
to listened to um the chairman of the
the Federal Reserve we we've had we've
had of all of this and there is a there
is a revolt and it's it's fascinating
when you think of um
when you think of that Trump appeal it
did cut right through and it cut Beyond
I remember stand this is last September
in New York watching the television and
hearing the CEO of Ford saying in four
years time we're going to move all small
car auto production to Mexico and I said
to the person I was with I bet Hillary
Clinton has nothing to say about that
and of course she had nothing to say
about it the following day Donald Trump
at the New York chamber of Commerce says
to the CEO Ford you don't do this I will
stop you and that is when it kind of
dawned on me that you could see why this
was this great appeal to the American
Blue who have just seen whole sways of
their industry wiped out by NAFTA and
free trade agreements uh and Trump's
people stole a lot of Bernie Sanders's
policies and the rest as we say because
the latest RS actually show that Bernie
Sanders is now the most popular
politician in the US so he's not
competing on the left right side he's
you know it's it's a terrible uh
indictment on the uh Democratic party
that they blew a billion dollars on the
Hillary Clinton presidential campaign
and they lost uh in those very areas
that they ought to have been able to put
in the bank before they even started
working class industrial America uh and
yet all they seem to be able to do is
try to blame Julian Assange Wikileaks
Russia anyone but themselves is that
from your us
experience uh true throughout the
Democratic party is there a layer in the
Democratic party that can see the the
the truth in this whole picture or not
yes I think that the Democratic party
has become populated by a lot of
youngsters as is the case here with the
British labor party um you and they know
that that the whole Clinton Third Way
it's all that's P it's like new labor
it's past history this goes it's out of
it's out of the door now uh the point
about Hillary Clinton and the Democratic
Party
Machine talking incessantly about uh uh
Russia is that that doesn't really cut
it with the people they've got to win
back that's not to say that it's not
important if it is the case that Russia
was interfering with American elections
but mind you America has interfered with
lots of Elections elsewhere so it all
goes on but this is not an issue that
matters is hugely with most ordinary
Americans and of course with a lot of
Donald Trump's this is the danger I mean
I'm of the left I I'm not American but I
would like I I don't like the Trump
presidency I would like to see a
populist Democratic Party come back to
office to power it's not going to do it
by talking about Russia all the time and
it's not going to do it um by uh by
patronizing a lot of the people who
voted for Donald Trump it has to win
them back and I don't think it's there
yet I think the Machinery of the
democratic party is resistant and it's
fighting back there's a similarity here
within the British labor party um just
off of a slight tangent I mean the the
for the past two years after Jeremy
Corbin was elected leader on two
occasions there was a cacophony from
about 40 yard labor MPS which went far
beyond anything that the old Tribune
group or the left groups in the old
parliamentary party used to do this was
deeply vitriolic and damaging and and
possibly cost labor the general election
Victory our friend uh Corbin might have
been in Downing Street but for the stab
in the back over 20 months nearly by uh
by the rebel MPS but he might get there
yet and I hope you're there with him
Mark said thanks for joining us on the
Sputnik coming up next mosul is
liberated say hallelujah it's a pile of
Ash and Rubble though so what happens
next find out after the
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break welcome back to Sputnik mosul is
liberated from a k Rouge style of hell
it has been at the year zero or less
under Isis but what happens next next
and in raqa the Syrian capital of the
evil empire the US forces are reportedly
in the streets the problem is neither
liberating Army is entirely welcome for
the people of moso or raqqa which is why
attention turns now to life after Isis
joining us to explore this terrain is
writer and commentator Dr Marcus Papados
very good to see you back Dr Marcus uh
if the US are in
raqa uh this means that there's a US
occupied City in the Syrian Arab
Republic and the Syrian government and
its allies don't want it there what's
going to happen there and equally in
Mosel uh the city has been liberated no
doubt from the hordes of of barbarism
the black hundreds of Isis but the
government in Baghdad
is not popular amongst the people in
Mosel so what's going to happen there
you're the expert tell us well naturally
I was uh delighted when the news broke
that mosul had been liberated and it
really does mean that uh Iraq is close
to being free of this terrible terrible
cancer uh that is Isis but then that
happiness was tinged with some sadness
because I know that Syria still has Isis
there and it still has other wahhabist
terrorist groups occupying Syrian
territory and it is such a shame that
while mosul um its Liberation was
projected by the British media in a very
very positive light when Easter Leo was
liberated from those uh barbarians the
very same people the very very same
people um it was a completely different
response uh from the British media now
if we're talking about uh the American
presence in Raa I suspect the Americans
have seen the writing on the wall I
believe that Donald Trump and his
administration understand all too
clearly that the Syrian Army is going to
win eventually in this conflict so uh
gon of the days of them trying to
overthrow the Syrian government it's not
going to work it's not going to work
with the Russians there in particular
but also with the Iranians and also uh
Hezbollah so I suspect the Americans are
falling back onto let's call it Plan B
whereby they try and keep some sort of
influence in the country by having uh
their soldiers there alongside the
various proxies who they're supporting
and I wouldn't just uh site raaka I
would also s site along the Turkish
border uh which of course is occupied by
the other wahhabist terrorist group the
so-called free Syrian
Army and to add to the mix you now have
uh Kurdish fighters in control of some
parts of the territory not not likely to
willingly hand it back to the Syrian
Arab Republic if the Americans have
effectively kind of East West Berlin
situation in raqa that's a recipe for
Endless trouble in the in the future
they're going to say to the president of
Syria well your R might well run in all
these other parts of the country but
they don't run here and they don't run
in the parts that are controlled by our
Kurdish uh allies of course the point
you make about mosul is correct now
mosul has been mercilessly bombed by the
United States it is as gatri said a pile
of rubble and Ash but if they continue
to govern mosul as they did before Isis
arrived it won't be long before a new
kind of Isis emerges there isn't it well
I think that's the problem while we uh
rejoice in the liberation of mosul the
Iraqi government uh ultimately is
compliant to the west and the way it has
treated its own civilians in mosul has
been abysmal and I would say what is
even more abysmal is how the Iraqi
government turned the Blind Eye to the
hundreds upon hundreds of Iraqi
civilians who were murdered by the
American Air Force in mosul now to me
that's a recipe for disaster for the
Iraqi government in the future not now
but in the future because people are not
going to forget their loved ones who
have been murdered by the Americans and
knowing that their own government has
turned a blind eye to that Isis as a
group uh they have been defeated in
mosul but as a concept it probably will
continue I just wanted to raise the the
figure behind Isis Al bagdadi is he of
importance because we have long not
heard of him and it seems that Isis just
continues as a group on its own without
a leader do you know what I think about
people like baghdaddy and and Bin Laden
they are replaceable yes they might be
charismatic to their own depraved
followers um yes they might have some
sort of strong leadership skills but
ultimately they can be replaced but what
I thought was interesting uh we're
hearing reports at the moment that
baghdaddy was killed in a Russian air
strike and if that's true we should be
rejoicing in that news but it's been
barely reported by British mainstream
media what our good friends Saudi Arabia
uh they are uh strengthened by the Court
decision in in Britain this week that
selling them weapons is perfectly lawful
even though they are using those weapons
against civilians in the Yemen and
British law says that we must not sell
weapons uh that are used for external
aggression or internal repression how
The Honorable judges squared that I I I
really don't know uh Saudi Arabia has a
new 30-year-old ruler effective ruler
Crown Prince uh are they going to go
back into their box or are they
emboldened by Trump and his support for
them in the confrontation with Qatar and
strengthened by the court victory of the
British government this week well you
know um Saudi Arabia is emboldened it's
embolden especially because its man is
now in the White House and that's Donald
Trump you know for decades he has had
very very uh extensive business ties
with the Saudi raw family and it's no
coincidence that about a week or 10 days
before Trump bombed uh that Syrian
Airbase in April uh the American
government the Saudi government signed a
$200 billion contract whereby the Saudis
would invest $200 billion in American uh
Saudi Enterprises now it's my own
guessing that uh in return for the
Saudis pumping that money into these
businesses Trump would have to attack
the Syrian military he did that and then
it's only a few weeks ago he attacked
the Syrian military again and on both
occasions who benefited from those
attacks it was Isis because Isis started
attacking that Syrian military
installation when it was bombed and it
attacked those Syrian military forces
when they were bombed a few weeks ago
but you know let's be clear about it
Saudi Arabia is the leading export of
religious extreme ex ISM and terrorism
in the world at the scene of every
wahhabist terrorist act in the world be
it uh be it's London Bridge be it
Manchester be it B market there is a
sign pointing back to Saudi Arabia of
course Saudi Arabia was in a no lose
situation because uh they had a they had
a long relationship with Donald Trump
but they had an even more profitable one
with Hillary Clinton they were
significant donors to the Clinton
Foundation and their people were in full
support of Hillary so it was uh heads
you win Tails You Win so far as they
were win concerned yeah now the war is
coming to an end in Iraq it's not quite
that uh advanced in Syria but the end
result is clear as we uh both know uh
the president of Syria is staying the
Syrian Arab Army and its allies have won
a truly historic uh Victory I mean this
is Stalingrad levels of uh of military
achievement they were fighting an an
armed invasion of their country by
dozens of countries if not 300 and on
300 fronts at one point yes uh it is
something that will be studied and
written about in the future but as gatri
was I think
implying the idea of Isis the idea of of
al-Qaeda emerged in the first place
because of the rottenness of the
leadership in the Muslim world and that
hasn't gone away and uh and therefore
this uh phenomenon will will morph
somehow somewhere sometime into uh
something else the problem of
dictatorship in the Arab world is
something that has to be tackled doesn't
it because this is the swamp in which
these these people swim mhm well I think
um like with many vile ideologies like
Nazism that was defeated 70 years ago
but 70 years on you still have a
significant number of people um who are
following it and of course we've seen a
reemergence of Nazism uh in Germany but
also we're seeing it in the Baltic
states as well soia in Ukraine
absolutely well every year um in Talon
the capital of Estonia every year in Ria
the capital of lvia there is a uh a
parade by Veterans of the ven SS which
is NE which has never been condemned by
the European Union or America which says
something um there but I think that the
ideology of Isis Al-Qaeda um is going to
be kept alive because as I said these
ideologies will always have followers
But ultimately as well as you said
George uh the governments in these
countries they're responsible but look
uh you know this wahhabist terrorist
threat uh posed To The World Is Only the
force it is because of the West if the
Americans and the British stopped
supporting Saudi Arabia and really
confronted them in a Hardline way uh
wahhabism is not going to disappear but
it will be a weakened force and I think
it is absolutely objectionable how there
are Saudi mosques in this country and
religious schools in this country which
are promoting wahhabism which are
promoting uh hatred for any one who does
not follow Islam
those follow their their interpretation
Islam and they should be closed down
they should not be allowed in this
country Dr Marcus thanks for joining us
on the
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Sputnik and now it's your turn to tell
us what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling guy so most
liberated what next Daniel J King says I
guess we lose all interest and ignore
the interes struggling between armed
groups in the rubble as traumatized
civilians struggle on I must say the
footage of the people emerging from the
rubble it was for me rolent of The
Liberation by the by the Red Army of the
Nazi death camps the emaciated shocked
utterly bewildered uh people uh one can
only imagine the kind of Hell on Earth
that they've been living through and
that's all the te we've got time for
today which alas means that's the end of
the show but you can stay in touch with
us on Facebook Sputnik on Russia today
or Twitter and Instagram rtor Sputnik
goodbye from meay and from me George
Galler it's been marvelous
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oh