1 00:00:02,510 --> 00:00:06,770 [Music] 2 00:00:35,390 --> 00:00:40,920 welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 3 00:00:37,980 --> 00:00:43,410 with me George Galloway and me Jeffrey 4 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:46,320 Morocco was the first Arab country I 5 00:00:43,410 --> 00:00:48,269 ever visited and whispered softly it's 6 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:51,059 still my favorite it is no secret 7 00:00:48,269 --> 00:00:51,629 however that in Morocco all is not what 8 00:00:51,059 --> 00:00:54,059 it seems 9 00:00:51,629 --> 00:00:56,579 the King isn't as securely in his castle 10 00:00:54,059 --> 00:01:00,180 as was his father for so many decades 11 00:00:56,579 --> 00:01:02,250 not as popular either progress towards a 12 00:01:00,180 --> 00:01:04,410 constitutional monarchy like in Spain 13 00:01:02,250 --> 00:01:07,590 Britain or the Netherlands has been 14 00:01:04,410 --> 00:01:09,840 pitifully slow and unsteady Morocco has 15 00:01:07,590 --> 00:01:12,149 a big population an industrial 16 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,640 proletariat a working class it has 17 00:01:12,149 --> 00:01:17,130 closed our proximity to Europe than most 18 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,619 Arab countries and strong political 19 00:01:17,130 --> 00:01:23,009 movements and parties including Islamist 20 00:01:19,619 --> 00:01:24,890 ones it also has something else I have 21 00:01:23,009 --> 00:01:27,659 referred to Morocco as an Arab country 22 00:01:24,890 --> 00:01:30,630 throughout this introduction but many 23 00:01:27,659 --> 00:01:32,310 Moroccans are not Arabs but Berbers and 24 00:01:30,630 --> 00:01:35,040 this rift 25 00:01:32,310 --> 00:01:36,899 is an ever widening one joining us to 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:40,939 discuss the growing uncertainty in 27 00:01:36,899 --> 00:01:44,189 Morocco is Murad el Ghazi here at 28 00:01:40,939 --> 00:01:48,570 solidarity campaign coordinator in the 29 00:01:44,189 --> 00:01:51,689 UK let's clear this up first it's Eric 30 00:01:48,570 --> 00:01:54,270 hir a key what does that actually mean 31 00:01:51,689 --> 00:01:57,570 haddock means in Arabic movements and 32 00:01:54,270 --> 00:02:00,810 it's the shortcut for popular movements 33 00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:02,969 Eric shabby that defines the name that 34 00:02:00,810 --> 00:02:05,009 people have chosen for themselves to 35 00:02:02,969 --> 00:02:07,229 define the grassroots movement that has 36 00:02:05,009 --> 00:02:10,070 started in the northeast of Morocco 37 00:02:07,229 --> 00:02:13,470 inish region and and what are its 38 00:02:10,070 --> 00:02:16,140 demands demands started very clearly 39 00:02:13,470 --> 00:02:19,079 first around the best of the fishmonger 40 00:02:16,140 --> 00:02:23,670 most sinfully who was killed in October 41 00:02:19,079 --> 00:02:25,560 2016 with sort of silence from the 42 00:02:23,670 --> 00:02:28,709 authority on the conditions of his death 43 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:31,350 his good foresees the fish that he was 44 00:02:28,709 --> 00:02:33,930 selling by the authorities and in the 45 00:02:31,350 --> 00:02:37,519 rift and him trying to get the fish back 46 00:02:33,930 --> 00:02:41,250 he was crushed in the garbage truck and 47 00:02:37,519 --> 00:02:42,400 the people around the scene or the way 48 00:02:41,250 --> 00:02:44,860 people remember the scene 49 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:47,590 that one of the people responsible of 50 00:02:44,860 --> 00:02:50,409 the operation the policeman said grind 51 00:02:47,590 --> 00:02:52,930 his mother in a sort of insulting way 52 00:02:50,409 --> 00:02:56,049 and therefore started this big movement 53 00:02:52,930 --> 00:02:58,810 around the best of the fishmonger trying 54 00:02:56,049 --> 00:03:01,870 to demand for accountability what 55 00:02:58,810 --> 00:03:04,920 happened to him and it grew slowly to be 56 00:03:01,870 --> 00:03:07,390 about social political and economic 57 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:11,049 developer a hospital an oncology 58 00:03:07,390 --> 00:03:12,670 department asking for university and for 59 00:03:11,049 --> 00:03:14,620 just more accountability and less 60 00:03:12,670 --> 00:03:17,739 corruption in the area to be an Iraqi 61 00:03:14,620 --> 00:03:20,739 now this has a remarkable similarity to 62 00:03:17,739 --> 00:03:23,680 the trigger of the Tunisian revolution 63 00:03:20,739 --> 00:03:26,290 which ultimately overthrew the 64 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:31,420 dictatorship there it was another small 65 00:03:26,290 --> 00:03:35,079 businessperson stallholder and from that 66 00:03:31,420 --> 00:03:37,780 small acorn grew a very big movement how 67 00:03:35,079 --> 00:03:40,750 big is this movement the movement is 68 00:03:37,780 --> 00:03:43,000 very wide its grassroots as I said which 69 00:03:40,750 --> 00:03:45,060 means that it gathers people from all 70 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,980 the small towns and the big towns around 71 00:03:45,060 --> 00:03:50,139 northeast of Morocco but also it has 72 00:03:47,980 --> 00:03:53,669 created a big solidarity movement across 73 00:03:50,139 --> 00:03:56,680 Morocco in every single city robot 74 00:03:53,669 --> 00:03:58,750 Casablanca an apparel Marrakesh fest 75 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:02,500 there are coordination in solidarity 76 00:03:58,750 --> 00:04:04,930 going out in protest in coordination 77 00:04:02,500 --> 00:04:07,359 with the reefs so I would say it's a 78 00:04:04,930 --> 00:04:08,470 wide movement so what are its 79 00:04:07,359 --> 00:04:12,489 characteristics 80 00:04:08,470 --> 00:04:14,519 is it a class-based thing or are there 81 00:04:12,489 --> 00:04:18,010 as I refer to in my introduction 82 00:04:14,519 --> 00:04:22,180 national characteristics in this is this 83 00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:25,419 a Berber Arab thing as well as whatever 84 00:04:22,180 --> 00:04:27,970 else it is can I say first I prefer to 85 00:04:25,419 --> 00:04:31,229 use the word amethyst instead of Berber 86 00:04:27,970 --> 00:04:33,430 to speak about the specific ethnicity 87 00:04:31,229 --> 00:04:35,919 Berber has been the word that was used 88 00:04:33,430 --> 00:04:39,130 by colonization to describe by the 89 00:04:35,919 --> 00:04:41,320 Romans yes Ruben you know what and get 90 00:04:39,130 --> 00:04:45,130 all those in colonize I started from a 91 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:48,610 very long time orange al ism so if it's 92 00:04:45,130 --> 00:04:51,520 a class is it an ethnicity thing I would 93 00:04:48,610 --> 00:04:55,720 say it's against oppression and 94 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:57,760 oppression has been described 95 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,730 very particular traits in the northeast 96 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:04,480 of Morocco it has a history of the 97 00:05:00,730 --> 00:05:07,480 region has been segregated and oppressed 98 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:10,480 for a very long time when there were 99 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,400 protests in the since the post 100 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:15,880 colonization actually they have been 101 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:18,760 heavily oppressed by the regime and the 102 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:21,370 regime has decided sort of blackouts on 103 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:23,470 the region and give some sanctions by 104 00:05:21,370 --> 00:05:28,030 teaching a lesson people were called Oh 105 00:05:23,470 --> 00:05:30,040 - which means vandals or savages and 106 00:05:28,030 --> 00:05:32,500 this word can still be heard actually 107 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,330 when the propaganda against the 108 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:36,460 movements tries to discredit them they 109 00:05:34,330 --> 00:05:39,070 are calling them abash did it work and 110 00:05:36,460 --> 00:05:43,020 so far though I think it always works 111 00:05:39,070 --> 00:05:45,340 when you try to other the professor's is 112 00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:47,260 showing that there is a group in 113 00:05:45,340 --> 00:05:48,850 solidarity or there is a sort of unity 114 00:05:47,260 --> 00:05:50,620 and someone is trying to break it and 115 00:05:48,850 --> 00:05:53,410 it's a narrative we hear everywhere 116 00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:55,450 we've heard throughout the North African 117 00:05:53,410 --> 00:05:57,190 uprisings but also in the Middle East 118 00:05:55,450 --> 00:06:00,070 it's also being a word that I don't 119 00:05:57,190 --> 00:06:03,850 really like that much so when we see a 120 00:06:00,070 --> 00:06:06,220 Tunisia when we see Egypt even in Syria 121 00:06:03,850 --> 00:06:08,980 what is still happening we try to call 122 00:06:06,220 --> 00:06:13,500 the people who are calling for more 123 00:06:08,980 --> 00:06:16,270 rights a separatist we call them as 124 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:18,250 troublemakers so we will show footages 125 00:06:16,270 --> 00:06:20,500 you should see that the police will be 126 00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:22,840 at the protest filming on the other side 127 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:25,840 throwing rocks at the protesters so that 128 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:27,880 when they reciprocate the police have 129 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:30,850 footage of them throwing rocks there for 130 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:34,320 being well we're not strangers to that 131 00:06:30,850 --> 00:06:36,940 here in this country of course and 132 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:40,270 here's the point that I think we have a 133 00:06:36,940 --> 00:06:43,660 disagreement about everybody in Morocco 134 00:06:40,270 --> 00:06:46,440 is oppressed because Morocco is a is a 135 00:06:43,660 --> 00:06:49,960 dictatorship all Arab countries are 136 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:52,600 dictatorships of one kind or another so 137 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:55,270 everyone is oppressed therefore the only 138 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:57,790 way you can get rid of the oppression is 139 00:06:55,270 --> 00:07:00,400 by uniting all the people who are 140 00:06:57,790 --> 00:07:04,630 oppressed and that's why I asked you if 141 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:07,180 this was ethnic specific and of course 142 00:07:04,630 --> 00:07:09,500 they will call you separatists but 143 00:07:07,180 --> 00:07:12,380 sometimes people are separatists 144 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:18,140 is this movement separatist it stops and 145 00:07:12,380 --> 00:07:21,200 again I am here as a solidarity campaign 146 00:07:18,140 --> 00:07:23,510 coordinator and that title is very clear 147 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,520 because it means I am NOT there and I 148 00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:28,670 cannot you know become the behalf of the 149 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:31,310 movement what I can say is how we reach 150 00:07:28,670 --> 00:07:33,080 out through the public now to say what 151 00:07:31,310 --> 00:07:35,000 the methods is across from the country 152 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:38,420 it's not a separatist movement it's 153 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:40,010 actually a very conciliatory movement 154 00:07:38,420 --> 00:07:42,890 you know it's not asking for anything 155 00:07:40,010 --> 00:07:45,500 there people have asked in Tunisia or in 156 00:07:42,890 --> 00:07:48,140 Egypt it's grounded very much in 157 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:51,830 actually the Constitution and this is 158 00:07:48,140 --> 00:07:53,780 where I invite the regime in Morocco to 159 00:07:51,830 --> 00:07:56,090 listen to the demands because there is 160 00:07:53,780 --> 00:07:57,710 nothing that the protesters are asking 161 00:07:56,090 --> 00:07:59,600 for that is not already in the 162 00:07:57,710 --> 00:08:02,020 constitution and the constitutional 163 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:05,180 reform law was actually a royal 164 00:08:02,020 --> 00:08:08,240 initiative so in some way bear in mind 165 00:08:05,180 --> 00:08:10,940 this history it would be just completely 166 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,980 logical to follow up by listening to the 167 00:08:10,940 --> 00:08:15,020 people's demands I know about the 168 00:08:12,980 --> 00:08:16,660 developments in Morocco by reading the 169 00:08:15,020 --> 00:08:19,340 Dutch papers because there's a lot of 170 00:08:16,660 --> 00:08:22,310 gira moroccan diaspora actually they're 171 00:08:19,340 --> 00:08:24,050 being called up to actually partake in 172 00:08:22,310 --> 00:08:26,150 the protests you know many moroccan to 173 00:08:24,050 --> 00:08:28,910 go back to their homelands and they 174 00:08:26,150 --> 00:08:32,240 specifically asked to join the protests 175 00:08:28,910 --> 00:08:33,710 how has that affected a lot of us / of 176 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,780 course throughout Europe how has it 177 00:08:33,710 --> 00:08:38,390 affected the whole movement we are very 178 00:08:35,780 --> 00:08:39,919 inspired by what's happening in the 179 00:08:38,390 --> 00:08:42,050 Netherlands it's one of the biggest 180 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:44,150 groups you know of people from the 181 00:08:42,050 --> 00:08:46,400 Northeast of Morocco who have migrated 182 00:08:44,150 --> 00:08:50,210 in Europe there are big groups also in 183 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:52,610 Belgium in France in the UK who are 184 00:08:50,210 --> 00:08:54,290 quite a small group of people but still 185 00:08:52,610 --> 00:08:56,630 we've managed to have a little action in 186 00:08:54,290 --> 00:08:59,720 front of the consulate where we gathered 187 00:08:56,630 --> 00:09:03,170 as a as a group and the discussion that 188 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:06,350 I wanted to start with that is how as a 189 00:09:03,170 --> 00:09:07,970 diaspora have as people who can actually 190 00:09:06,350 --> 00:09:10,040 identify with what's happening but do 191 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:12,020 not live there how can we help the 192 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,150 situation some people as you said have 193 00:09:12,020 --> 00:09:16,990 gone back to protests or are involved 194 00:09:14,150 --> 00:09:19,490 others are organizing protests abroad 195 00:09:16,990 --> 00:09:21,500 for us here in the UK we want to 196 00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:22,680 concentrate on the release of the 197 00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:24,870 political prisoners 198 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:27,149 and on an active campaign to get 199 00:09:24,870 --> 00:09:28,740 solidarity from the grassroots movements 200 00:09:27,149 --> 00:09:30,720 here because in some way we're not 201 00:09:28,740 --> 00:09:33,600 really interested in a feeling to the 202 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:35,610 institutions of the UK or Europe because 203 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,310 it would be in some way betraying the 204 00:09:35,610 --> 00:09:41,670 spirit of a grassroots oh yeah and I 205 00:09:38,310 --> 00:09:44,190 would think it's just that Morocco is 206 00:09:41,670 --> 00:09:46,620 different from most Arab countries in 207 00:09:44,190 --> 00:09:48,959 that it actually does have a civil 208 00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:53,190 society has trade unions it has 209 00:09:48,959 --> 00:09:55,649 political parties it has the Communist 210 00:09:53,190 --> 00:09:57,570 Party as a has a daily newspaper there 211 00:09:55,649 --> 00:10:00,029 is a communist party there are trade 212 00:09:57,570 --> 00:10:03,750 unions and so on the these things don't 213 00:10:00,029 --> 00:10:05,850 exist in almost all Arab countries it 214 00:10:03,750 --> 00:10:08,490 seems to me that the most important 215 00:10:05,850 --> 00:10:10,920 thing I may give your movement some 216 00:10:08,490 --> 00:10:13,649 advice is to link up with all the others 217 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:17,459 who are being oppressed and who are 218 00:10:13,649 --> 00:10:19,980 showing some signs of becoming well more 219 00:10:17,459 --> 00:10:22,620 than impatient at the progress that's 220 00:10:19,980 --> 00:10:25,020 being made in Morocco actually it's 221 00:10:22,620 --> 00:10:28,260 happening already the coordination that 222 00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:30,690 I was referring to before are in direct 223 00:10:28,260 --> 00:10:33,000 link with Morocco in the last protest 224 00:10:30,690 --> 00:10:36,120 that we call the million march that 225 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:38,790 people tried to go to get on her femur 226 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:42,690 it was astonishing how many people left 227 00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:45,089 their cities to go and the regime was 228 00:10:42,690 --> 00:10:48,360 trying to stop actually there everybody 229 00:10:45,089 --> 00:10:50,130 gasps who forget to the city where the 230 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,480 protest was happening and you would see 231 00:10:50,130 --> 00:10:53,339 that there were some incredible 232 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,980 initiative for people to both actually 233 00:10:53,339 --> 00:10:58,140 to sail around and to get to the city or 234 00:10:55,980 --> 00:11:00,810 that they crossed through mountains to 235 00:10:58,140 --> 00:11:04,020 get there so we are here in their call 236 00:11:00,810 --> 00:11:05,790 and people from even Europe Moroccans in 237 00:11:04,020 --> 00:11:09,450 Europe are here in the color and going 238 00:11:05,790 --> 00:11:13,110 back so that there is some intelligence 239 00:11:09,450 --> 00:11:15,390 there and being very locally grounded by 240 00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:16,980 appealing to everyone and I think in 241 00:11:15,390 --> 00:11:20,459 some way this is what we have to learn 242 00:11:16,980 --> 00:11:23,010 and from the Heritage that Herrick has 243 00:11:20,459 --> 00:11:24,600 its regional specificities they speak a 244 00:11:23,010 --> 00:11:25,980 message sometimes time exists when 245 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,630 they're speaking to each other they're 246 00:11:25,980 --> 00:11:29,670 not trying to make it understandable to 247 00:11:27,630 --> 00:11:31,320 us by speaking Indonesia but if they 248 00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:32,910 were to speak to someone that doesn't 249 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,779 speak Tamil yes they would speak 250 00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:39,439 Indonesia so I think it's also for us 251 00:11:35,779 --> 00:11:42,319 to not impose on them to appeal or to 252 00:11:39,439 --> 00:11:44,540 try to make a common strategy with other 253 00:11:42,319 --> 00:11:46,399 movements it's the other movements that 254 00:11:44,540 --> 00:11:48,050 I have to listen and say that we 255 00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:50,329 actually have common grounds and how can 256 00:11:48,050 --> 00:11:52,009 we join them because so far what we're 257 00:11:50,329 --> 00:11:55,370 seeing the political prisoners and the 258 00:11:52,009 --> 00:11:57,860 people who get beaten our families how 259 00:11:55,370 --> 00:12:00,680 many political prisoners are 176 260 00:11:57,860 --> 00:12:03,110 prisoners this is the updates we have 261 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:06,139 two important cases that we're really 262 00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:08,389 really trying to call for solidarity and 263 00:12:06,139 --> 00:12:10,579 for their immediate release we have one 264 00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:13,790 person who has been on there on a hunger 265 00:12:10,579 --> 00:12:15,769 strike this is the 32nd day and he is 266 00:12:13,790 --> 00:12:18,769 actually right now at hospital his name 267 00:12:15,769 --> 00:12:22,209 is rabia expell and his family is very 268 00:12:18,769 --> 00:12:24,470 worried for him he has lost 21 kilos and 269 00:12:22,209 --> 00:12:26,809 currently he as he is at the hospital 270 00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:29,240 prison in okasha 271 00:12:26,809 --> 00:12:31,279 in Casablanca the second one is serious 272 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:34,670 viene everyone knows her more she's the 273 00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:38,209 finger the voice of the revolution in 274 00:12:34,670 --> 00:12:41,720 the leaf and she is also being treated 275 00:12:38,209 --> 00:12:43,939 very badly feeling depressed and we are 276 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,160 calling for their release this is not to 277 00:12:43,939 --> 00:12:48,230 forget all of the other people we want 278 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:51,050 their release and we actually want to 279 00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:53,660 call for how their treatment is very 280 00:12:51,050 --> 00:12:56,480 very politically planned because they 281 00:12:53,660 --> 00:12:58,910 have been taken the 50 actually people 282 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,519 that are part of the leadership have 283 00:12:58,910 --> 00:13:03,350 been taken to jail in Casablanca in al 284 00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:06,470 kasha prison which means taking them 285 00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:09,500 away from their supports in the wrist 286 00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:11,569 region so what we're saying is we 287 00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:14,059 believe we want to believe in the 288 00:13:11,569 --> 00:13:16,040 promises of reform we want to believe in 289 00:13:14,059 --> 00:13:18,139 the desire to have a constitutional 290 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,509 monarchy as you started your 291 00:13:18,139 --> 00:13:22,579 introduction with we just need proof of 292 00:13:20,509 --> 00:13:24,709 that we need to see proof and first 293 00:13:22,579 --> 00:13:26,809 proof is well the rightful process is a 294 00:13:24,709 --> 00:13:28,370 constitutional right it's protected by 295 00:13:26,809 --> 00:13:30,800 the Constitution for the political 296 00:13:28,370 --> 00:13:32,990 prisoners indeed a good slogan any day 297 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,790 thank you very much indeed thank you for 298 00:13:32,990 --> 00:13:37,550 joining us on the spoiler thank you 299 00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:39,110 football agent Barry cell phone is up 300 00:13:37,550 --> 00:13:41,559 next free of charge 301 00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:41,559 don't miss it 302 00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:50,529 welcome back to Sputnik nowadays 303 00:13:47,710 --> 00:13:52,690 footballers have loads of money top 304 00:13:50,529 --> 00:13:54,820 players can earn hundreds of thousands 305 00:13:52,690 --> 00:13:57,610 of pounds per week and even the ordinary 306 00:13:54,820 --> 00:14:00,310 are on thousands but it was not ever 307 00:13:57,610 --> 00:14:02,050 does absolutely shocked my own wife 308 00:14:00,310 --> 00:14:04,540 today when I told her that when I 309 00:14:02,050 --> 00:14:08,440 started watching football players had a 310 00:14:04,540 --> 00:14:11,080 salary cap of 20 pounds a week and they 311 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:14,110 were in fact bonded libras their clubs 312 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:17,649 actually owned them all that has changed 313 00:14:14,110 --> 00:14:19,600 something too much so and the credit or 314 00:14:17,649 --> 00:14:22,029 the blame depending on your point of 315 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,550 view lies with the new breed of football 316 00:14:22,029 --> 00:14:26,860 agents very salesmen was a top reporter 317 00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:28,630 himself playing for a plethora of crops 318 00:14:26,860 --> 00:14:30,940 from the now wealthiest Arab on 319 00:14:28,630 --> 00:14:33,640 Manchester City to the Israeli League 320 00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:36,100 where he played for Maccabi Tel Aviv his 321 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:39,250 beard agent for more than 20 years and a 322 00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:41,860 very good and successful one - and at no 323 00:14:39,250 --> 00:14:43,720 cost at all he's been good enough to 324 00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:46,750 share some of the secrets with us on 325 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,790 board the spudnick body welcome man oh 326 00:14:46,750 --> 00:14:52,180 yeah I hate to tell you but where did 327 00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:56,350 you get the no cost okay the invoice 328 00:14:52,180 --> 00:14:59,410 billion Italy okay no I need an agent to 329 00:14:56,350 --> 00:15:02,050 discuss with you how much cocaine you're 330 00:14:59,410 --> 00:15:05,170 a star player you let me tell you it 331 00:15:02,050 --> 00:15:07,779 dismayed me how shocked she was this 332 00:15:05,170 --> 00:15:10,180 morning when I told her that in when I 333 00:15:07,779 --> 00:15:12,370 started watching football it was 20 quid 334 00:15:10,180 --> 00:15:14,200 a week and it's true that was a legal 335 00:15:12,370 --> 00:15:16,480 maximum tell us about that that's true 336 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:20,589 it was 20 pound a week right up until 337 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:24,300 the 60s when Jimmy Hill broke that and 338 00:15:20,589 --> 00:15:27,160 he managed to literally break the 339 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:29,170 no-holds-barred it was you can own 340 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,790 whatever you wanted but clubs are still 341 00:15:29,170 --> 00:15:33,040 frightened to go up and I think they 342 00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:36,430 went up gradually to about 40 pound a 343 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:39,910 week until Johnny Haynes broke it which 344 00:15:36,430 --> 00:15:41,560 it then became hundred pound aware and I 345 00:15:39,910 --> 00:15:43,959 have just as I was a fab which is 346 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,640 unbelievable waking up I got cilia sorry 347 00:15:43,959 --> 00:15:48,399 else that you might not know and this is 348 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:52,450 very interesting we used to have to 349 00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:55,810 wages they had in the season was one 350 00:15:52,450 --> 00:15:58,630 wage and in the summer the salary would 351 00:15:55,810 --> 00:16:01,150 drop down so you get maybe a hundred 352 00:15:58,630 --> 00:16:02,800 pound a week in the season but you get 353 00:16:01,150 --> 00:16:04,779 thirty pound a week in the summer 354 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,940 because there was no money coming into 355 00:16:04,779 --> 00:16:09,010 the club's the point I made in the 356 00:16:06,940 --> 00:16:11,980 introduction none of these players were 357 00:16:09,010 --> 00:16:14,350 free agents even at the end of their 358 00:16:11,980 --> 00:16:16,540 contract you think you're stuck there 359 00:16:14,350 --> 00:16:18,580 you couldn't see I'm off I'm gonna look 360 00:16:16,540 --> 00:16:20,770 at terms but you don't come on that make 361 00:16:18,580 --> 00:16:23,380 sense of a club this makes that makes a 362 00:16:20,770 --> 00:16:25,060 fan the fan base base it makes it make 363 00:16:23,380 --> 00:16:28,000 sense of the fan base because then they 364 00:16:25,060 --> 00:16:30,160 would realize yes it was actually 365 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,100 illegal when you look back on it let's 366 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:35,310 just take just say George George has a 367 00:16:33,100 --> 00:16:38,589 contract with split look for three years 368 00:16:35,310 --> 00:16:41,620 at the end of the three years if you get 369 00:16:38,589 --> 00:16:44,440 offered a job at the BBC ITV wherever 370 00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:46,450 and you want to leave you can leave now 371 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,029 that was like that name Pete I mean I 372 00:16:46,450 --> 00:16:52,510 had friends I had Janet's report issues 373 00:16:49,029 --> 00:16:55,450 to have two three-year contracts with TV 374 00:16:52,510 --> 00:16:57,880 at the end of the contract you walk for 375 00:16:55,450 --> 00:17:00,430 all the only job where scene things 376 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,740 happened and I found it very strange or 377 00:17:00,430 --> 00:17:05,350 one of them still happens today we're in 378 00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:07,209 a vent you have a short-term contract we 379 00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:09,880 know the big players get fortunes 380 00:17:07,209 --> 00:17:11,980 children I mean like you say hundreds of 381 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,569 thousands of pounds a week but you get a 382 00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:15,189 lot of players don't get that especially 383 00:17:13,569 --> 00:17:17,189 when you drop down into the second and 384 00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:21,069 first envision they get 800 pound a week 385 00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:22,150 700 pound a week now when the contract 386 00:17:21,069 --> 00:17:24,850 comes to an end 387 00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:26,949 why shouldn't I be allowed to walk 388 00:17:24,850 --> 00:17:29,200 because in all other walks of life now 389 00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:32,580 go ahead it's a short-term contract you 390 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:35,140 can walk but another big thing it cats 391 00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:39,010 football was even known short term 392 00:17:35,140 --> 00:17:40,810 contracts on piy with in all other walks 393 00:17:39,010 --> 00:17:43,810 of life when you have a what is 394 00:17:40,810 --> 00:17:46,360 relatively short term contract you're on 395 00:17:43,810 --> 00:17:49,210 Schedule D now football is a fallback 396 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:52,150 for years but I've never beaten Inland 397 00:17:49,210 --> 00:17:55,660 Revenue with it so in effect footballers 398 00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:57,640 were slaves I couldn't walk away from a 399 00:17:55,660 --> 00:18:00,160 club where they were shackled and many 400 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,500 at the club didn't want to sell you 401 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,600 there they're just get you loaded onto 402 00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:07,929 they keep your the same salary there 403 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,890 until eventually you either when I give 404 00:18:07,929 --> 00:18:11,530 in my 405 00:18:08,890 --> 00:18:13,870 outside the New Deal or somebody come 406 00:18:11,530 --> 00:18:17,020 along and paid the money for you and 407 00:18:13,870 --> 00:18:18,700 that is one of the reasons there wasn't 408 00:18:17,020 --> 00:18:21,040 so much moving George if you remember 409 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:26,050 when you were young you know tires won't 410 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:28,990 go you have a new year some of a-team 411 00:18:26,050 --> 00:18:29,680 years a while the reasons were you 412 00:18:28,990 --> 00:18:34,120 couldn't go away 413 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:36,130 so Bosman the Bosman ruling which in the 414 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:38,130 European Union made it clear that this 415 00:18:36,130 --> 00:18:41,890 was a restriction on trade and so on 416 00:18:38,130 --> 00:18:44,830 this bust that wide open and then you 417 00:18:41,890 --> 00:18:47,440 chaps the agents that came along and 418 00:18:44,830 --> 00:18:49,330 suddenly a boss couldn't sit on a big 419 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,670 chair and have the player on a little 420 00:18:49,330 --> 00:18:54,640 chair he didn't deal with the player at 421 00:18:51,670 --> 00:18:56,320 all you had to deal with you and your as 422 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,120 we've already seen in this you've 423 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,840 negotiated a price even for this 424 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:04,560 interview you're a much harder man to 425 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:07,510 deal with on my behalf then I would be 426 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:10,300 myself and of course a lot of people 427 00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:13,660 hate that the managers hate it and some 428 00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:16,330 of the some of the fans hated how do you 429 00:19:13,660 --> 00:19:18,550 deal with that the managers now to be 430 00:19:16,330 --> 00:19:21,130 fair managers got used to it what 431 00:19:18,550 --> 00:19:23,200 managers say to the Chairman is utter 432 00:19:21,130 --> 00:19:26,050 for the player just get the deal done 433 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,660 they don't care anymore because because 434 00:19:26,050 --> 00:19:31,240 again from when we were younger 435 00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:33,970 managers were there for god boxing and 436 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,590 many heroes user managers now even when 437 00:19:33,970 --> 00:19:37,480 they're on four or five year deals in 438 00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:39,100 effect it's really only a year rollover 439 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,800 because most managers having their 440 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:43,660 contract that if they sack them only get 441 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,550 a year's money so in effect a lot of 442 00:19:43,660 --> 00:19:47,500 them owner on the year rolled over now 443 00:19:45,550 --> 00:19:50,860 they don't care anymore up till about 444 00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:54,040 ten years ago they did but now it's just 445 00:19:50,860 --> 00:19:56,170 the case of I want the player just get 446 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,870 me the player and you do have a problem 447 00:19:56,170 --> 00:20:01,060 with fans because fans obviously from 448 00:19:58,870 --> 00:20:03,730 their point of view they want their best 449 00:20:01,060 --> 00:20:07,060 players to stay and if a club comes in 450 00:20:03,730 --> 00:20:10,480 to buy them or you can't get a new deal 451 00:20:07,060 --> 00:20:13,150 dumped they blame the agents but as an 452 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:18,280 agent like all agents when you're an 453 00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:21,450 agent of an actor a singer a comedian 454 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:23,269 you take instruction from your place 455 00:20:21,450 --> 00:20:26,730 or either you sit down with your player 456 00:20:23,269 --> 00:20:29,370 and you will say what do you want to do 457 00:20:26,730 --> 00:20:31,289 here and as an agent you're not doing 458 00:20:29,370 --> 00:20:33,240 the right job if you don't know whether 459 00:20:31,289 --> 00:20:35,309 there's other clubs that want him and 460 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,590 how much those clubs are willing to pay 461 00:20:35,309 --> 00:20:40,080 so you sit down with the plan the first 462 00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:43,980 thing you say is do you want to stay 463 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:48,000 is that your objective if a player says 464 00:20:43,980 --> 00:20:50,549 yes so what would you be happy with and 465 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,899 all players talk to each other some go 466 00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:54,659 on a little bit of an imaginary 467 00:20:51,899 --> 00:20:57,690 situation where they may make out more 468 00:20:54,659 --> 00:20:59,789 than they do but within reason players 469 00:20:57,690 --> 00:21:01,830 know what each other is getting so a 470 00:20:59,789 --> 00:21:04,649 player will look at he's important in 471 00:21:01,830 --> 00:21:07,470 the club then he will say to you I'll be 472 00:21:04,649 --> 00:21:09,360 happy if I get this but if they don't 473 00:21:07,470 --> 00:21:11,460 want to give me that this players 474 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:14,130 earning that that players only that it 475 00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:15,990 means they don't really want me but what 476 00:21:14,130 --> 00:21:18,299 it does George it takes to pressure away 477 00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:21,269 from the players it's become something 478 00:21:18,299 --> 00:21:24,630 taints now that players just want to 479 00:21:21,269 --> 00:21:26,399 concentrate on playing they because also 480 00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:28,350 what you've got to remember is if I fly 481 00:21:26,399 --> 00:21:31,799 a car agree a deal with the chairman and 482 00:21:28,350 --> 00:21:34,080 it's the player doing and he gets left 483 00:21:31,799 --> 00:21:35,340 out of the team in his head he's not 484 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,169 sure what he's getting left out the 485 00:21:35,340 --> 00:21:38,970 thing because he can't agree a deal and 486 00:21:37,169 --> 00:21:40,769 the chairman said to the manager don't 487 00:21:38,970 --> 00:21:42,149 pick him or whether the managers 488 00:21:40,769 --> 00:21:44,100 actually thinking but he's not playing 489 00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:46,350 that well I want to change the system or 490 00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:48,809 whatever so it takes all the pressure 491 00:21:46,350 --> 00:21:52,139 away and what you do then you go in and 492 00:21:48,809 --> 00:21:54,510 you know the ballpark figures if you're 493 00:21:52,139 --> 00:21:57,059 going to get near there you'll find a 494 00:21:54,510 --> 00:21:58,980 way to get near there if you're on a 495 00:21:57,059 --> 00:22:01,529 different wavelength to what the 496 00:21:58,980 --> 00:22:03,720 Chairman is you immediately know this is 497 00:22:01,529 --> 00:22:07,460 going to be a problem so what you try to 498 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:10,950 do is get out of that meeting with a 499 00:22:07,460 --> 00:22:13,620 friendship a relationship if you like a 500 00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:16,740 business relationship still intact 501 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:23,220 and when you do a deal the idea of the 502 00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:27,809 deal is that the player the owner of the 503 00:22:23,220 --> 00:22:30,090 club the Chairman and you can all live 504 00:22:27,809 --> 00:22:32,730 with a deal now somewhere along the line 505 00:22:30,090 --> 00:22:34,649 some ones are really not going to get 506 00:22:32,730 --> 00:22:35,310 exactly what they want it might be the 507 00:22:34,649 --> 00:22:36,870 player 508 00:22:35,310 --> 00:22:39,720 might be the club gotta give it a bit 509 00:22:36,870 --> 00:22:41,550 more might be the agent doesn't get what 510 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,520 he thinks he should get but most agents 511 00:22:41,550 --> 00:22:47,790 now are they if you're the agent of a 512 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:51,710 player you can only get 10% which by the 513 00:22:47,790 --> 00:22:54,600 way 10% less or what a showbiz agent get 514 00:22:51,710 --> 00:22:56,940 every showbiz agent and I'm I'm in 515 00:22:54,600 --> 00:23:01,650 showbiz as live and had a music business 516 00:22:56,940 --> 00:23:04,950 and you get 20% and everybody's agent 517 00:23:01,650 --> 00:23:07,320 takes 20% everyone's but not for 518 00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:09,990 Brighton you're actually not allowed to 519 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:13,920 have as a registered agent of the player 520 00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:18,870 more than 10% well and out of that the 521 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:20,490 player has to pay tax on 5% of that so 522 00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:22,400 that how it works 523 00:23:20,490 --> 00:23:25,170 now you do see figures bandied about 524 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,840 certain agent just received 14 million 525 00:23:25,170 --> 00:23:29,580 for a player going to Manchester United 526 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:32,310 but he was a completely different 527 00:23:29,580 --> 00:23:37,380 situation that I won't go into on here 528 00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:39,960 but you are in a way you're tired what 529 00:23:37,380 --> 00:23:42,150 you earn and I've never done a deal for 530 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,530 a player ever since I've done this you 531 00:23:42,150 --> 00:23:45,630 got remember George I was a player for 532 00:23:43,530 --> 00:23:47,730 18 19 years I know so I know where 533 00:23:45,630 --> 00:23:49,830 players are coming from I've never done 534 00:23:47,730 --> 00:23:51,930 a deal for a player or I haven't taken 535 00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:54,180 the players instructions and sometimes 536 00:23:51,930 --> 00:23:56,610 as an agent you get a render stick and 537 00:23:54,180 --> 00:23:58,680 now you're a lightning you get a render 538 00:23:56,610 --> 00:24:01,890 what you can't and can't exactly go on 539 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:04,530 Facebook or on Twitter and say by the 540 00:24:01,890 --> 00:24:06,420 way there was a line on me it was my 541 00:24:04,530 --> 00:24:09,090 client telling me because you don't want 542 00:24:06,420 --> 00:24:11,640 the support I'm gonna learn I'm not the 543 00:24:09,090 --> 00:24:13,980 supporters to still love love him win 544 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,350 lose or draw you want them to love a 545 00:24:13,980 --> 00:24:19,230 look better you're a fine player and 546 00:24:16,350 --> 00:24:20,310 you're a very good agent and you've just 547 00:24:19,230 --> 00:24:24,180 got two new clients 548 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:25,980 yes I got absolute interview very short 549 00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:29,230 man you're a gentleman and a sky future 550 00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:31,380 and we're joining us on the Sputnik 551 00:24:29,230 --> 00:24:33,910 [Music] 552 00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:36,010 and now it's your turn to tell us what 553 00:24:33,910 --> 00:24:38,800 you think through the portals of social 554 00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:42,190 media what's rattling gayatri a lot a 555 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,840 lot in Morocco live from exile says yes 556 00:24:42,190 --> 00:24:45,610 the Moroccans are fed up with the 557 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,200 atrocities of the government they are 558 00:24:45,610 --> 00:24:49,750 protesting against poverty and 559 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:53,380 oppression and for equality and freedom 560 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:55,570 and in the world of football John 561 00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:56,620 McCormick is actually directing this 562 00:24:55,570 --> 00:24:58,540 question to Barry 563 00:24:56,620 --> 00:25:00,250 he says when do you anticipate the end 564 00:24:58,540 --> 00:25:02,050 of the so-called Premier League 565 00:25:00,250 --> 00:25:05,650 thanks to your and the players sheer 566 00:25:02,050 --> 00:25:08,740 Everest and rapacity no it's not fear 567 00:25:05,650 --> 00:25:10,929 does there's plenty of money in premier 568 00:25:08,740 --> 00:25:14,170 ship football why shouldn't the players 569 00:25:10,929 --> 00:25:16,570 get their share of it and with a man 570 00:25:14,170 --> 00:25:18,610 like Bari I think they're gonna is it is 571 00:25:16,570 --> 00:25:21,940 it I could just see him dealing with 572 00:25:18,610 --> 00:25:23,260 these chief executives and chairman I'm 573 00:25:21,940 --> 00:25:25,750 not joking I'm gonna have him as my 574 00:25:23,260 --> 00:25:28,030 agent I know you're not in this all the 575 00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:29,860 time we've got for a treat which allows 576 00:25:28,030 --> 00:25:31,900 means that's the end of the show but 577 00:25:29,860 --> 00:25:34,540 please stay in touch with us on Facebook 578 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:35,470 Sputnik on Russia today or on Twitter 579 00:25:34,540 --> 00:25:38,020 and Instagram 580 00:25:35,470 --> 00:25:42,840 Artie underscore Sputnik goodbye for me 581 00:25:38,020 --> 00:25:47,670 Gayathri and for me George Galloway HP 582 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,670 [Music]