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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me Gayatri
grass and mud wall villagers burn
ill-clad villagers bleed and die in
Southeast Asia it is for someone of my
age at least a very familiar sight
Vietnam Cambodia Laos even Korea are
part of the soundtrack of my life those
who don't die are forced to flee on foot
through the land mines or afloat on the
unforgiving sea with the children's on
their backs if they're lucky I call it
Burma you may call it Myanmar I called
it Cambodia you may call it Kampuchea
either way we have been faced for years
not weeks with an actual as opposed to a
rhetorical genocide an attempt to
destroy completely a specific category
of people namely
the rural India 68% of the Burmese
people are ethnically Burma the name
Myanmar is contested as the name imposed
by the military dictatorship which has
effectively been in power since 1962 87
percent of the population are Buddhists
the military dictatorship has long
repressed the minorities in the state in
the name of ethno-religious supremacy
the former darling of western liberals
Nobel Peace Prize winner Hong sang-soo
Chi is the country's political leader
the lipstick on the pig of the still
ruling military junta so we have a
genocide taking place in a Buddhist
country led by a Nobel laureate you
couldn't make it up to help untangle
what's going on now is our first guest
filmmaker Sofia Rahman who has just
returned from the frontline in
Bangladesh welcome to the Sputnik
Shaffir where have you just been and
what did you find there thanks George
I'm happy to be here I've been all along
the border with Myanmar on the
Bangladesh side you've seen scenes on
television but really it's to be there
it's quite an overwhelming
you see thousands and thousands of
people mainly women and children sitting
in the torrential rain sitting in the
Sun without very little shelter they're
exhausted they're having to struggle in
the mud they can't feed the children
properly the women are unable to lactate
they can't breastfeed and sometimes you
see you get panic you get pandemonium I
was there in the Gundam border and
suddenly we heard that two people had
been shot dead two refugees trying to to
draw hinge refugees trying to come into
Paramesh and there was howling and
crying all around and I filmed these
refugees trying to retrieve the bodies
from the no-man's land
slipping all over in the mud blood
everywhere it's absolutely terrible no
you see it's mainly women and children
which begs the obvious question what's
happened to the men I think they the
onslaught of the Burmese military he
hasn't spared men women or children from
all the stories that we've heard no one
has been left in certain villages women
have been targeted women have been
targeted for rape women up in target
they've been corralled into huts and
torched men have often fled to the
villages to the hills just before the
attacks become known but the presence of
some overwhelming numbers of women as
opposed to men does beg the question
where are they this didn't start weeks
ago
although the TV cameras showed up weeks
ago started years ago it's important I
think for viewers to know that this is
not some response to a specific event or
some act of resistance by the Rohingya
people this is a process over years of
attrition to ethnically cleanse Burma of
its Rohingya population isn't it yes I
think they the bogeyman of the jihadi
Bay Islamic extremists they would like
to
say that revenge er is a very convenient
handle for the Burmese military but as
you have said the process has been
extended the violence really kicked off
in 1978 when you saw the first large
population movements from Burma into
anti-viral ash I've been filming this
year and there have been numerous
instances of villages being torched or
people being raped poor people people
being killed these episodes provide a
very welcome and convenient handle for
the military to go in and if you like
expedite their tasks is it the case that
that vigilante militants make the first
attacks and then the army moves in not
necessarily we've heard of villages
where the army have surrounded the
villages and Rakhine mobs sometimes even
monks are part and parcel of the process
of killing people monks yes I I think
there's even documented evidence from
2012 where what these people are
involved let me give you an example of
one particular village which seems to
exemplify what's happening across this
Rakhine State and the village was
surrounded by the army they were told
that a Hynde chairman told everyone look
we're going to torture buildings we're
going to torture homes but we're not
going to harm you so please assemble
they pointed out a place for them to
assemble but soon that there was a
realization that this is this is not
what was going to happen they torched
the place and then they set upon the
people and what happened there was quite
astonishing over a period of three days
virtually every member of that village
was slaughtered was killed somehow men
women and children know this comes as a
great shock to people even perspicacious
viewers of sputnik monks Buddhist
both of whom have a kind of idealized
image in Western countries the Dalai
Lama and and chanting in front of the
Buddha and so on it's quite a shock to
people as a shock to you is a shock to
the victims I think those who follow the
process of those who follow the process
what's been happening to the Rohingya
I think it's not entirely a shock and
it's a very crafted thing that's
happening here it's often seen in the
press as a as a communal conflict as a
religious conflict it's not quite that
it'sit's very useful angles to have for
the military to to put it like that I
think if you see that one of the real
questions is about land grabbing is
about resources in that area it's become
a very interesting area for corporate
argued culture timber geothermal
projects and so on and land wrapping has
also affected the Buddhists put a small
halters so if you think about it it's
very useful for for the military to set
one group up against another in order to
hide the economic and their business
interests that they have which is
affecting both population groups of
course one population group is being
targeted as particularly unpalatable
Amiens as in the revenger but it's not
to say that buddhists haven't been
affected also by the military's business
interests in the region but the
ideological base of the regime is
Burmese nationalism Buddhist chauvinism
other groups over decades have been
repressed the current people the Hmong
people who are all small minorities in
the state one after the other have are
often something at the same time have
been targeted so the main driver isn't
it is the ethno-religious attempt to
make Burma an entirely burmese an
entirely Buddhist
there's no doubt about it that there's
an ethnic component to this and that
there's a communist component to this
the terms that are used to discriminate
against revenger color and so on they
are ethnic slurs if you like which
target darker skinned people we which
target Muslims without a doubt that's
that's the case but it's undeniable also
that the military have very specific
business interests and hand in hand is a
very important mix can I just go back to
the border where you have been going and
filming for a good year now so mostly
women and children I think over quarter
million have now fled into Bangladesh so
what what is happening to them well
where they are they is the Bangladeshi
government just giving them there or is
there a certain program around it I
think at first it was the idea of
containment that people would be somehow
push back push back into Burma when
things calm down but that idea soon
evaporated because things weren't coming
down as the villages kept being torched
so now they're being slowly released
from those areas and they're coming into
an already very tight situation all the
camps are completely over capacity
already so you can imagine the arrival
of 370 now I believe the figure is three
hundred ninety thousand so you can
imagine what the impact of three hundred
ninety thousand people will do you can
think about latrines you can think about
food distribution you can think about
even even to erect a small Hut for
yourself or just a plastic sheet or over
your head is a very difficult task if
you're an unaccompanied child or if
you're a mother with lots of children
and you don't have any money to buy the
plastic there's no one providing you
with money or giving you plastic sheets
there's a flourishing market in plastics
which I just cannot believe how this can
be lastly I'm afraid we
of time the British government is still
providing military training to the
Burmese military that is carrying out
these atrocities how does that make you
feel I read today that John McCain is
going to introduce an amendment to the
American bill and this is John McCain
someone who is a Republican and someone
you don't really feel that might engage
in progressive policies and yet here we
are in in the UK still going along as if
nothing has happened it's deeply
republic of course I'm really grateful
to you for your firsthand testimony I
wish we had more time to explore it
further maybe on another occasion
shafa'ah Rahman god bless your work and
thanks for coming on the sputnik thank
you
coming up next the elections in Germany
where there's no Russian interference
after all don't miss it
welcome back to Sputnik next week's
federal elections in Germany will
determine not just the governance of
Europe's most important country but will
shape the next stage in the history of
the European Union and the flow of
migrants and refugees into the European
continent
and will also be pivotal in determining
Britain's relations with Europe once we
leave the EU so important then our
resident expert in European affairs is
of course dr. Russel Foster from King's
College London and were very glad to see
he's joined us again now dr. Russell we
we never tired of seeing you in any case
but there's an election it seems every
other month in Europe and a cataclysmic
event can always be counted on in
between so this is a biggie the German
election how's it looking well I would
definitely agree that this is the big
election and this year of elections that
we've been dealing with it hasn't ended
of course we've got four elections
coming up in Europe in the next few
months but all eyes have been on the
German one because as we all know the
European Union is dependent upon German
support now in contrast to the Dutch the
British in the French elections which
were in the media because there were
quite touching goes to where the
populist would get in the German
election has been very quiet and quite
calm it's astonishing you have to dig
quite deep now the reason for this is
that Angela Merkel is all but guaranteed
to become Chancellor for a fourth term
in the elections next week the Christian
Democratic Union will win most of the
seats in the Bundestag which will give
them a great deal of control but as is
always the case in post-war German
politics
they'll have to form a coalition with
one of the other major parties now this
is significant because in the upcoming
elections we may see the number of
parties in the Bundestag rising from
four to six with the election of
Representatives for de linka or the
Greens or possibly alternative for
Deutschland as the right-wing well we
will call them right-wing but a little
bit like from nacional or the PVV in the
Netherland
they absorb voters from across the
political spectrum
now Merkel has got essentially two
choices as to who she forms a coalition
with the first one is the SPD under
Martin Schulz who experienced quite a
surge in popularity a little while ago
they're already in coalition with the
CDU and their outlook upon Europe will
be very significant in determining
Germany's relations with other members
of the Union after the elections but
another alternative is that she could
form a coalition with the free
Democratic Party the FDP
who she was in office with prior to to
their allure the threshold a date they
were wiped out in 2013 partly because of
how they are dealt with financial
regulation in Germany but Merkel's CDU
has been in government with both the SPD
and the FDP at different points but each
party has very very different views of
how the European Union should be
structured and what reforms need to take
place in Europe
so although Merkel is going to win the
election and it will be business as
usual in Germany depending on who she
forms a coalition with will send Europe
in one of two very different directions
it's perilous for the SPD which is the
Labour Party equivalent to be in a
coalition government with the torus it
would be like Jeremy Corbyn sitting in
trees amazed cabinet in a junior
position it sounds strange to us but
this is quite the norm for Germany that
they provide us exactly exactly that
they provide a stable systematic
government now the CDU is not really the
equivalent of the Tories they're
probably close to do right-wing Liberal
Democrats they're much more centrist but
with the SPD we could possibly see a
continuation of what we saw in the
Netherlands in France and in the British
local elections before our general
election in which the establishment
left-wing was annihilated I don't think
that that that the SPD is going to be
wiped out but there may take quite a
tumble but they have taken an
establishment turn I mean shorts if he'd
been smart would have taken a carbon
turn he would have left miracles
coalition he would have struck out on
his own with a ball
real labor platform but has done the
opposite well this is one problem for
the SPD that many of the priorities and
policies are not that indistinguishable
from the CDU this means it's very easy
for them to form a coalition but it also
begs the question of why should somebody
for guess be Dean's have CDU there's
also the problem that Schulz is not very
good at managing his own image as a
politician he is still seen as the
Archie uric rat the man who promised to
fight corruption and nepotism in the
European Parliament and then essentially
got in through backdoor practices me
then to delink ax which if you like is a
Carbonite party basically standing for
the same things that labor under carbon
does here they have a a charismatic
leader how do you think they're likely
to do I think they might get one seat
it's but it's debatable whether they'll
even achieve that because although des
linkers policies are quite similar to
those that we see under Corbin's labor
delink Estill has a lot of residual
connection with the old communists of
East Germany so they will gain some
support in areas and old overlooked
post-industrial areas of East Germany
but because of the continuation the
legacy of the Communists they're not
likely to do very well and another
problem is that a lot of the people who
might have voted for de linka are
flocking to alternative for Deutschland
so if there was well if there was no AFD
de link who would probably get a couple
of seats but the AFD just like the front
arsenal in France or you keep in the
United Kingdom have appealed to and
swept up a large part of the vote from
the old industrial working class who
feel ignored and isolated by a distant
metropolitan elite which is not
interested in their concern well this
concept was invented in Germany in one
sense I don't want to go too deeply into
the phenomenon of Strasser ISM but the
Nazi Party itself had a left-wing
around Strasse they were butchered all
of them in the night of the Long Knives
but their stance was both right wing and
left wing exactly the same time this is
the front Nationale and France has
indeed modeled itself on that and from
what you see
so as the AFD tell us well this is one
of the characteristics of populism that
we're seeing in Europe and the United
States today of a continuation of early
20th century policies which are designed
to appeal to people who feel ignored by
an establishment class so we can't
categorize them as left or right wing
now the F D is potentially unique in
European populist s' one reason is
Germany's collective memory in Britain
in America in France we haven't really
faced up to the atrocities that we
committed in our Imperial eras but in
Germany everyone is very what we're very
aware of the consequences of populism
another problem for the AFD is that they
have shifted their rhetoric quite
significantly when the AFD was founded
it was appealing to people who didn't
like germany it was a few years back
relatively new but like a lot of the
populace that we're seeing but they were
founded in order to appeal to people who
didn't like a german money going to
bailout the Greeks and it was
essentially a party formed around
opposition to an undemocratic European
Union and a financial structure which
they felt was disadvantaging Germans but
recently the FDS priorities have shifted
a lot they're no longer financial
sceptics they're now ethnic Euroskeptics
and appealing to an ethnic German as'
which is defined against the million
migrants who came in under Merkel's
policy now this means that the AFD have
lost quite a lot of support precisely
because of the German collective memory
that they remember what happens when you
blame all of your problems on one group
well I hope so
on the other hand if that's not what
happens if they do well that's bound to
impact on the German States attitude to
what by anybody's standards has been a
massive influx of migrants and refugees
and we've already seen that Merkel's
stance on refugees has changed very
significantly so just like mark rotor in
the Netherlands just like to resume in
the United Kingdom we're going to see
the same thing in Germany of
establishment parties which are
maintaining their power by adopting some
of the nationalist rhetoric and
discourse so at the height of the
refugee crisis Merkel said come to
Germany with open arms then less than a
year later she's publicly debating
whether the burqa should be banned in
some places to appeal to people who
otherwise would vote for the AFD but
regardless of how many seats the AFD win
they might win a few but not many it's
not going to impact the coalition's
policies because everyone has ruled out
a deal with the AFD so the coming
coalition between the CDU and either the
SPD or the FDP
will be significant depending on which
one it is if the SDP
come in we're going to see demands for
more European integration greater reform
of Europe and an extension of the euro
zone to include all EU members I think
that's a given
there's only time for one more question
but I do want to hear your answer to it
there was all this babble that Russia
was interfering in the German elections
that's now largely debunked I think but
you can tell me if it isn't well the new
German government take a different
approach to for example sanctions
against Russia then Merkel has been
forced to take by the US until now again
it depends if it's the SDP then we'll
see Germany's policy towards Russia
remaining much the same if it's the FDP
their leader has pushed for Germany to
accept Crimea's admission into the
Russian Federation and we'll see a weak
sorry add a taunt of German Russian
relations this issue of hacking it's
something that seems to crop up in every
election and the Germans have a
remarkably insecure system for callate
votes at the local level to the federal
level so expect to see more accusations
of Russian interference in an antiquated
system dr. foster your students are are
lucky to have you you distill all of
these issues down so perfectly
Thank You chefs for joining us thanks
for joining us on the Sputnik and now
it's your turn to tell us what you think
through the portals of social media
what's rattling Gayatri
so we asked whether America will sleep
walk into a fourth term basically in the
upcoming elections but we know the
answer to that now it's an obvious yes
Denzil Defoe replies to that probably
Germany is kaput and they deserved a
hole they've got it is the German voters
who are sleepwalking and Brian says
unfortunately it's likely Merkel will be
re-elected with the sickening macro
numerical neoliberal alliance I look
forward to brexit more it is amazing
that she wants to continue and call
attack that is the first surprise but
the second surprise for me is that the
SPD are in coalition with them what kind
of choice therefore to the German people
have either the far left or the far
right or a center party which basically
contains everybody sorry go on
no no that's that's that's about right
about the Rohingyas I would rather not
go into that because I've got some
surprising bio responses about that
there are actually people who are
agreeing with this genocide so let's not
go into it well there's such anti-muslim
hatred out there that some idiots and
some educated idiots their default
position is to blame the Muslims even
when we can see on our television
screens that they're being massacred and
that they're defenseless they don't even
have bicycles nothing to get away on
nothing well that's all the time we've
got a lot of tweets today which alas
means that's the end of the show but you
can stay in touch with us on social
media on Facebook Sputnik on Russia
today or on Twitter and Instagram our
the underscores put me it's goodbye from
me Gayathri and for me George Galloway
it's been marvelous
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you