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Hey, I get

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Welcome orbiting the world with me,

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George Galloway, and me, Gayatri. They

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labored mightily and brought forth a

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mouse. As Horus himself might have put

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it, about the much anticipated reshuffle

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of Jeremy Corbin's four-month-old shadow

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cabinet. He felt he needed a reshuffle,

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of course, and he did. Not least because

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the first ones spent as much time

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undermining and even plotting against

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his leadership as they did actually

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performing as the official opposition.

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For me, Corbin has failed to remove a

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raft of people he should never have

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appointed in the first place, and for

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the same reasons he did appoint them in

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the first place, fear of the

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consequences. The only change of

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substance was the appointment as shadow

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defense minister of Emily Thornbury or

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Lady Nugi of Islington to give her her

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proper title. She is apparently

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allegedly an opponent of the renewal of

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the super expensive Trident nuclear

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missile system. Although

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I cold war chinless wonders wagging

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their non-existent chins and that's it.

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Unless you include the sacking of a man,

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Michael Duger, whom no one had ever

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heard of from a job shadow culture

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secretary which no one knew he had in

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the first place. Joining us now to

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discuss the state of play is former Tony

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Blair aid and a man with his finger on

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the pulse of the inner party struggle,

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John McTurnon. John, welcome back to

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Sputnik. Last time you were here, you

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said there was no conspiracy because if

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there was, you'd have been at it. There

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was no candidate and there was no

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project. Does all of that still hold?

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That still that still stands except that

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Jeremy Corbin in the absence of an

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opposition candidate to him has created

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one Hillary Ben. He has by choosing to

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brief against Hillary Ben saying he will

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sack him and then backing down when

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Hillary says I won't move or resign. He

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strengthened Hillary. Hillary has gone

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from somebody that people knew as a nice

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guy into

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being maybe the Clement Atley of the

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Labor Party, the man who will replace um

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the pacifist. Um well, that's an

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interesting comparison because uh uh

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he's definitely no Spartacus. I've known

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Hillary Ben for more than 30 years and

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he's no Spartacus. He's no Tony Ben. Uh

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but he might be an Atly kind of

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centrist, rather dull figure. Maybe he

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could even start smoking his dad's pipe.

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Uh because Hillary Ben's the only man to

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emerge in this picture. None of the

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other rebels either in or out of the

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shadow cabinet are taller today than

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they were the last time we spoke. Well,

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I think the I think the other person

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who's emerged with some dignity out of

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the is Pat McFaden because Jeremy Corbin

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extraordinarily told him why he was

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sacking him. He was sacking him for

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saying that terrorists who kill people

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are responsible for their own actions.

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Now clearly that means that Jeremy

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thinks terrorists who kill people aren't

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responsible for their own actions. And I

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can't think of a single voter who agrees

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with Jeremy on that. They all agree with

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Pat McFaden who was doing a great job as

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Minister for Europe, but now standing as

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the great person who stands for

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anti-terrorism, stands for national

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security in the Labor Party and was

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sacked for it. Well, yeah. I mean, I I

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knew Pat McFaden when he was a

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communist, and I've known him as a

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Celtic supporter since he was a boy. Uh,

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and so I don't necessarily endorse the

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rest of what you said. But it begs a

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question, why does the leader have to

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explain to people that he's sacking, why

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he's sacking them, especially if the

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reason is one there's going to be rope

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to hang yourself with? Well, the

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extraordinary thing is um the best ever

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sacking was one of Atley's where a

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minister said to him, "Why are you

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firing me?" And he looked at the

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minister and he said, "Not up to it."

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And went back to his papers. That that

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is all you need to say as a leader.

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That's all you need

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to all you actually have to say is I'm

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the leader of the party and I've decided

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that I want somebody else in your uh

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position. Like uh Lady Nugi for example

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uh this new shadow defense secretary.

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What does she know about defense? What

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is what is what are her I think the

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qualifications in in one sense nobody

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has qualifications when they take up a

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job. They have to learn the job. The

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thing we do know is she doesn't like

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seeing the English flag, the George's

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Cross. We know that I'm I'm looking

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forward to the first time she goes on a

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visit to see squatties in their barracks

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where she take photographs of their

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George's crosses standing above their

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bunk beds and go, she doesn't like that

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either. this there. You know, if you

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wanted one thing to symbolize that

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Jeremy Corbin really doesn't

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rid of people from the north of England,

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from Yorkshire, replacing them with

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somebody, another person from Isington.

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It looks more and more like a dinner

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party set, not a shadow cabinet. And

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yet, the odd thing is she'd never have

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Jeremy Corbin at her dinner parties. And

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Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't go to dinner

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parties. As we know from his first wife,

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he preferred to eat beans cold out of a

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tin whilst watching a political

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documentary. So Jeremy himself is not a

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part of the Islington set. It's

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therefore all the more odd that he

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should give such a portfolio to Lady

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Nagi. But that then goes to this other

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question which is what is the picture

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that Jeremy wanted to to to to paint of

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himself and the party and the shadow

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cabinet through this reshuffle. Normally

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you try and establish authority. He's

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shown weakness in the face of Hillary

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Ben. Normally you want to show that

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you've got a kind of unity of talent.

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What you seem to have is a kind of unity

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of mediocrity. Uh normally you want to

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set a direction but this was a reshuffle

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about defense, terrorism, security,

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foreign policy, Syria. Whereas the big

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issues in Britain are about domestic

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policy. They're about health, the junior

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doctors. They're about flooding the

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environment. They're about capital

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investment. They're about the railways.

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They're about railfares. That's what's

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very strange about this. The

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battleground should be domestic policy.

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And what you've had is Jeremy showing

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this reshuffle. one, incompetence, but

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two, my real concern is to purify my

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shadow cabinet on issues of foreign

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policy, defense, and security. They are

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important, but they are not the

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battleground for the next 18 months. I'm

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wondering why they even need such big

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shadow teams. If you don't have enough

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people that you can depend on, trust,

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and who are on the same line as you,

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just shrink the team. We've now got a

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situation where Sky News can describe

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three resigning shadow junior ministers

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as senior shadow junior ministers. I'm

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not sure how you become one of those,

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but uh um it seems to me that in a

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situation where only 50 60 MPs are

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really with the leader, why not just

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make your team smaller? Well, there's a

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big question about are there too many

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ministers in the government? the

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government's the size it is because

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Cameron has created jobs in the cabinet

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or attending cabinet to manage having

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enough women in the cabinet or to manage

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the politics of making sure Boris

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Johnson can say he attends cabinet. Um

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and then this kind of way of bloating up

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government to pay favors is being

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used about the whole of Jeremy's

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operation. There doesn't appear to be

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the discipline. Why if you're going to

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sack people tell them for 3 weeks over

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Christmas when there's no other news?

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You're going to sack them. Let them

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prepare. If you want to sack somebody,

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make it a surprise. um just tell them on

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the morning they come back to work,

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sorry, you're fired on clearing your

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desk. It's there's a there's for

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somebody who's surrounded by people who

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come

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from an organized end of the left of the

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Labor Party, they're very disorganized.

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Well, that's interesting. What happens

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now, John? Um no candidate, maybe

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Hillary Ben emerging as one, no real

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project, uh and no real hazardous belly.

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There's no no immediate trip wire that's

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going to provoke a move. Do you

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therefore think that we're we're stuck

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in in this now until 2020?

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Well, you may be the trip wire the Kaz

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belly. Uh if you become mayor of London,

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uh I think a defeat in London for

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Sadique Khan would be a very bad thing

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for Jeremy Corbin. London is a labor

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city. London moved Labor in 2015 even

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despite the defeat uh in the general

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election. To lose London again to

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somebody as weak as Zach Goldsmith would

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be very bad for Corbin. I think Trident

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may be a trigger. What's happened is

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Hillary Ben is stronger. What if Corbyn

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tries to impose before conference a

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change in policy on Trident? That will

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then lead to a big rupture inside the

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the cabinet, the shadow cabinet. The

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vote on Trident, well, it's in the hand

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it's in the hands of the Tory

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government. Uh they should have had it

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in the last parliament, but the Liberal

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Democrats wouldn't allow it. So they'll

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have it at the point at which they'll

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cause the maximum mischief. The reason

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Corbyn can't bring it to conference is

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that Unite have got a conference policy

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in favor of Trident because they employ

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the workers in Barrow who who build the

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boats and they employ workers uh in

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Fazlane who maintain the boats.

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So Trident could be Trident Trid Trident

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could be erupted because why would Len

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McCcluskey want to go against his own

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conference and his own members to back a

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man he didn't even want to be the leader

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of the Labour party Jeremy Corbin and

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it's it's these things which are

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unforced errors uh appointing Hillary

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Ben was a sort of damic lead as I think

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you've said

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before not sacking

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him is strengthening him and it gives an

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issue trident on which Ben is in line

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with not just the public, not just the

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PLP, but Labor Party policy. And so if

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you give uh somebody this chance to

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campaign to defend Labor Party policy

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against the leader, that is a flash

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point. That's a potential flash point.

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And again, there'll be you going to sack

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me? Are you going to keep me and then

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say there's conditions to me staying? I

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think that's the problem. The FL There

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probably is no long there's no there's

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no candidate yet, but maybe Hillary.

269
00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:15,839
There's no project yet, but maybe it is

270
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,760
um going to emerge. Some people are

271
00:11:15,839 --> 00:11:20,880
doing some thinking uh on the moderate

272
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,640
side. Um this year, this year, this year

273
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,240
will be interesting. Well, it's going to

274
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,680
be interesting not just in the Labor

275
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:30,560
Party. I know that's

276
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your but uh the latest poll on European

277
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:35,839
Union referendum indicates that there

278
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,640
might be from the European Union, which

279
00:11:35,839 --> 00:11:42,560
you and I know will open a new uh front

280
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in Scotland. uh but will also open a

281
00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:47,120
chasm into which David Cameron would be

282
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bound to fall. I would have thought so

283
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,680
2016

284
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going to be a very momentous year. Yeah,

285
00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:54,800
it's going to be a fascinating year from

286
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,040
that point of view because there are

287
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,839
tensions and ruptures in both part both

288
00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:02,160
major parties and the only space in

289
00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:04,880
which they uh which the success of the

290
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,800
Tory government is implementing Blareite

291
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:09,279
policies in education and health.

292
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,760
They're working fine. everywhere else is

293
00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:13,920
kind of the mess of Europe or the mess

294
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,399
of universal credit or the mess of the

295
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,160
cuts and infrastructure and flooding or

296
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there's no safe I mean there's no safe

297
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,040
ground for for David Cameron throughout

298
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,800
this whole year and we could be looking

299
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,760
at something very different in this time

300
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,880
next year in uh 2017. Well, uh it could

301
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:31,440
be uh cataclysmic for the British state

302
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:34,560
coming out of Europe, then breaking up

303
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:37,160
with Scotland uh voting finally for to

304
00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:40,720
join the Europe, uh separation on the

305
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:42,240
grounds of Europe, uh challenges to the

306
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,920
Labour leader, challenges to the

307
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,160
Conservative leader. We're not going to

308
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,360
go out of business anytime soon. This is

309
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,600
full employment for political

310
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:52,720
commentators. Thanks very much for

311
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:55,279
coming on board this book, John McTurn.

312
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,440
Coming up next, are we on the brink of a

313
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war in the Middle East between Iran and

314
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:03,360
Saudi Arabia? Time to sit up and take

315
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,360
notice after the

316
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,880
break. Welcome back. Following the

317
00:13:08,959 --> 00:13:13,120
burning down of the Saudi consulate in

318
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:16,000
Mashhat and the partial destruction of

319
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,480
the Saudi embassy in Thran, Saudi Arabia

320
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:21,360
has broken diplomatic relations with

321
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,920
Iran. a move which has been aped by

322
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:26,560
almost all of its Gulf allies. The

323
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,560
proximate cause is of course the attacks

324
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:31,040
on their diplomatic property, a crime

325
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:34,480
under international law. But Saudi

326
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:37,920
Arabia anticipated that when it beheaded

327
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:39,920
47 men in a single day, New Year's Day,

328
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:43,200
one of them, the most senior Shia cleric

329
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:46,000
in Saudi Arabia, Sheh Nimmer al- Nimmer.

330
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:48,480
And behind that are the proxy wars being

331
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,880
fought in Syria and Yemen between the

332
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:53,760
two regional giants. And behind that is

333
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,920
the age-old struggle for if not the soul

334
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:58,800
then at least the direction of the

335
00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:01,519
Muslim world. Joining us to discuss this

336
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:04,000
is Sami Ramadani of London Metropolitan

337
00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:06,959
University, an Iraqibborn political

338
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:10,160
activist and expert. Sammy, thanks for

339
00:14:06,959 --> 00:14:13,519
joining us again on the Sputnik. The war

340
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:17,279
of words and diplomatic uh withdrawals

341
00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:20,480
and dismissals uh is one thing. Uh but

342
00:14:17,279 --> 00:14:22,320
in Yemen, we have the real possibility

343
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:26,160
following the alleged bombing of the

344
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:29,199
Iranian embassy by Saudi jets that this

345
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:32,639
war of words can become a war of fire

346
00:14:29,199 --> 00:14:36,399
and lead. uh ever since the new king uh

347
00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:40,320
assumed power in last January it's it's

348
00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:43,360
his anniversary year uh this January uh

349
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:46,720
Saudi Arabia has taken on a different

350
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:50,079
much more open much more aggressive uh

351
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:52,480
uh role historically the Saudi royal

352
00:14:50,079 --> 00:14:55,040
family has always been discreet in its

353
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:58,560
role very important role politically

354
00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:00,320
financially and so on but discreet they

355
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,959
don't want to hit the headlines

356
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:06,639
But with the arrival of the new monarch

357
00:15:02,959 --> 00:15:09,920
and the ousting of the previous uh

358
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:14,160
princes and princesses from power, this

359
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:16,320
new Saudi uh faction of the royal family

360
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,399
has decided to go all out in terms of

361
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:21,680
the attack on Yemen, in terms of

362
00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:24,959
insisting on regime change in Syria and

363
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:27,440
so forth. And uh Iran is not a country

364
00:15:24,959 --> 00:15:31,040
that takes such things lying down. Uh,

365
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:33,920
is there going to be uh an actual

366
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:36,000
outbreak, you think, of of hot war? I

367
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,839
think unless the Saudis are stupid

368
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,800
enough to attack Iran, I don't think

369
00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:44,240
Iran will escalate to the extent of

370
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:46,480
having an all-out war. I mean any

371
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,720
observer of the political scene in the

372
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,720
Middle East would have noticed that Iran

373
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:54,639
over several years now have been trying

374
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:57,279
very hard to reach some sort of a a a

375
00:15:54,639 --> 00:16:01,519
concordant or some sort of an agreement

376
00:15:57,279 --> 00:16:03,600
with the Saudi uh uh rulers but they

377
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:06,160
made a little bit of progress under King

378
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,759
Abdullah and that has been blown us

379
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:11,720
under with the arrival of Kingdom

380
00:16:08,759 --> 00:16:15,839
suspended indefinitely. It was thought

381
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:19,360
the beheading of the Shia cleric Nimal

382
00:16:15,839 --> 00:16:22,480
Nimmer, but the new king went ahead in

383
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:25,040
this night of the long swords on uh on

384
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:28,240
New Year's Day. My big question to you

385
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:30,560
is this. Is this authorized or not? I'm

386
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:33,040
working on the assumption that Saudi

387
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,880
Arabia is a client state of the United

388
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,720
States of America even though the

389
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:41,440
financial relationship is the other way

390
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:44,560
around. Uh so is Saudi Arabia doing what

391
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:48,480
it's doing in Syria, in Yemen, and now

392
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:51,199
internally and visav Iran with United

393
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,199
States approval or not? I think the

394
00:16:51,199 --> 00:16:55,920
United States is playing a dual game

395
00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:58,079
with Iran. This is my assessment of the

396
00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:01,759
situation. On the one hand, they have

397
00:16:58,079 --> 00:17:04,959
reached the nuclear deal um and they

398
00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:07,760
appear to be pushing towards a rapo with

399
00:17:04,959 --> 00:17:11,199
Iran. But on the other hand, and this is

400
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:15,280
decisive, I think Iran remains

401
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:18,000
strategically outside US control and US

402
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:21,520
uh influence and the United States has

403
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:24,720
not given up their strategy of having

404
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:27,120
regime change in Iran. And if regime re

405
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,960
regime change doesn't come through war

406
00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:30,960
direct war which would have been

407
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,440
impossible because of the strength of

408
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:37,440
Iran because following the Iraq

409
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:40,320
occupation uh there was some talk of an

410
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:42,400
attack on Iran. And when the Israelis

411
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,640
two years ago started saying they will

412
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,880
attack Iran, Iran immediately says any

413
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,480
Israeli attack will be an open war with

414
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,640
the United States. And this is when

415
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,760
obviously the United States decided to

416
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:56,720
deescalate and reach eventually uh the

417
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,720
nuclear deal.

418
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:02,720
But a powerful state in the region, the

419
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,280
only state from the Russian borders to

420
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:07,679
the to the to Algeria which is strong

421
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,799
enough to oppose US policies in the

422
00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:14,080
region. Iran remains a stumbling block

423
00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:18,559
for US control of the entire Middle East

424
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:21,039
and beyond. So and regime change policy

425
00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:24,720
I think is still in place but it's

426
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:26,799
happening through proxies and the Saudi

427
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,200
role in that sense fits in I think

428
00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:31,760
within that scenario. I want to go

429
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,880
further into the actual execution of the

430
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:36,799
sheh. Go ahead. He's uh been executed

431
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:39,760
wide protest around the world obviously

432
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:42,080
mostly among the Shia communities. His

433
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,559
nephew it is. Yeah. Is now on death row

434
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:47,600
as well. What's going teenager facing

435
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:50,160
crucifixion? Absolutely. For attending a

436
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,960
rally on corruption of the governments.

437
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,720
Yes. So what's what's going to happen? I

438
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,919
think domestically

439
00:18:54,720 --> 00:19:00,720
uh within Saudi Arabia there is an

440
00:18:57,919 --> 00:19:04,960
intense conflict within the royal family

441
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:07,840
and that conflict became really uh

442
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:11,679
surprisingly in the open once King

443
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:16,240
Salman took over power and last January

444
00:19:11,679 --> 00:19:19,679
last year and his immediate act was to

445
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:22,320
purge uh King Abdullah's wing if you

446
00:19:19,679 --> 00:19:25,679
like faction of the royal family and

447
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:28,960
this is not a tensy minor type of

448
00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:32,720
faction very powerful faction within the

449
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:36,160
royal family and I think one of the

450
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:38,559
propelling reasons force the Saudis to

451
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,280
act in this aggressive way is to paper

452
00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:43,840
over this serious crack within the royal

453
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,480
family Saudi Arabia is a real paradox

454
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:49,039
though isn't it at one in the same time

455
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,520
it is best friends with America it is

456
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:54,880
warming up its relations Even with

457
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:58,559
Israel, albeit on a semi secret level,

458
00:19:54,880 --> 00:20:00,720
right? It is a major customer of western

459
00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:02,799
weapons and so on. It has all its money

460
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:06,080
in the banks of the United States and so

461
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:08,960
on. And yet it is the fountain head of

462
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:12,320
the most extreme interpretation of

463
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:15,840
Islam, this Wahhabist ideology, uh,

464
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:18,240
which has spawned al-Qaeda and later

465
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,799
ISIS. That's right. Uh, how does it

466
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,520
manage to walk that tight rope?

467
00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:26,320
I think the tight rope appears to be

468
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:29,919
such a narrow tight trope but in reality

469
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:33,600
it's not. Saudi Arabia was given license

470
00:20:29,919 --> 00:20:36,080
by the United States post World War II.

471
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,320
Uh obviously we all know about Saudi

472
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,559
financial power and the importance of

473
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,559
oil to the west and to the United States

474
00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:45,039
and so on. But one thing that needs to

475
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:48,000
be also examined is the political role

476
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:51,120
of Saudi Arabia that was envisaged by

477
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,880
previous former US presidents starting

478
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:55,120
significantly with Truman, President

479
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,320
Truman and followed on by President

480
00:20:55,120 --> 00:21:00,760
Eisenhower uh

481
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:03,679
1953 onwards. And Eisenhower in his

482
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:06,080
memoirs stresses the important political

483
00:21:03,679 --> 00:21:10,080
role of Saudi Arabia and how he himself

484
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:12,559
suggested to the Saudi king that Saudi

485
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,799
Arabia should play a big leading role in

486
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:17,400
the Islamic world by actually

487
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:20,640
establishing a worldwide Islamic

488
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:24,559
organization. Um obviously Wahhabism

489
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:28,960
that you mentioned it's uh it is a a

490
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:31,360
small small small minority of uh Sunnis

491
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:34,480
in the world. It has been the financial

492
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:36,880
power of the Saudis in terms of

493
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,559
spreading in little pamphlets, not even

494
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:42,799
the Quran, in little pamphlets, this

495
00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:46,000
extremely socially backward, anti-women,

496
00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:48,400
anti-child, you name it. And they tried

497
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:51,520
post World War II with the encouragement

498
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:54,400
of the United States to oppose primarily

499
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:56,400
socialist movements and progressive

500
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,760
secular movements and nationalist

501
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:02,400
movements. These were, if you like, the

502
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,720
dreaded enemies of US control of the

503
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,039
region, western control of the region in

504
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,840
general. And the Saudis were given

505
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:12,960
enormous leeway in terms of spreading

506
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:15,360
this reactionary thought as opposed to

507
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,600
the any chance of progressive

508
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:19,760
development, democratic development

509
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,320
especially within the Middle East and

510
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:26,840
the environment, Pakistan for example.

511
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:30,559
So this Saudi role acquired a new

512
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:32,720
dimension after the occupation of Iraq

513
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:35,039
and previous to that the occupation of

514
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,880
Afghanistan where Saudi Arabia was

515
00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:39,600
financially backing al-Qaeda and

516
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:44,240
Afghanistan and later on terrorist

517
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:46,000
organizations within Iraq to to in

518
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,159
effect what the Saudis were doing were

519
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,799
weakening the resistance to occupation

520
00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:52,320
by encouraging these sectarian

521
00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:55,039
organizations.

522
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,919
eventually terrorist organizations which

523
00:22:55,039 --> 00:23:00,799
fragmented the Iraqi people's opposition

524
00:22:57,919 --> 00:23:02,799
to occupation and resistance occupation

525
00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:05,440
and on Syria as soon as the United

526
00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:08,400
States made public regime change policy

527
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:10,400
the Saudis and the Qataries moved in. In

528
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,640
terms of the political forces in the

529
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,640
region, the Saudis historically,

530
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,280
especially post World War II, relied on

531
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,840
the Muslim Brotherhood very heavily.

532
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,840
From the beginning of the 1990s, they

533
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,799
stopped funding the Muslim Brotherhood.

534
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:27,039
Qatar took over and Qatar became the

535
00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:29,440
main finance of the Muslim Brotherhood.

536
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:31,520
The new king, King Salman, and this is

537
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,919
important to watch, has reversed that.

538
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:37,120
He's an old friend of the brotherhood.

539
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:39,679
Now the Saudis have uh rembraced the

540
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:43,480
Muslim Brotherhood and are relying on

541
00:23:39,679 --> 00:23:45,840
them to be to act like before as a

542
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,200
political political movement with some

543
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,960
grassroots I must uh say whether uh

544
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:54,280
across across the Middle East and in

545
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:58,080
Turkey as well. And this new new

546
00:23:54,280 --> 00:24:01,120
strategy harks back to post World War II

547
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,360
uh political activity of uh of the

548
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:06,320
Saudis especially after the failure of

549
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:08,320
the Salafi and so on that they tried to

550
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,960
encourage as opposed to the brotherhood

551
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:13,919
and their Qatar masters. Now they are

552
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,559
back in the fold with the Saudis and the

553
00:24:13,919 --> 00:24:19,039
Saudis are playing uh this role and you

554
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:21,520
are right to point out that uh that the

555
00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:23,840
United States is not far off this the

556
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:27,360
war on Yemen would have been impossible

557
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:29,679
without without your support. Well um if

558
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:31,279
if hot war breaks out we might have to

559
00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:32,880
bring you back next week but that's

560
00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:34,799
okay. I hope it doesn't I hope it

561
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:38,919
doesn't. I hope it doesn't. Thanks very

562
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:38,919
much. Well, Sami Ramadani.

563
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,760
And now it's your turn to tell us what

564
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,840
you think through the portals of social

565
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,279
media. What's rattling guy? Well, big

566
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:51,679
changes in the Labour party this week,

567
00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:54,000
huh? Speak to me of truth says, "A few

568
00:24:51,679 --> 00:24:56,480
rotten apples fell from the tree. Maybe

569
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,799
it sends the right message." And Pleti

570
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,520
says, "Well, despite this all, Jeremy

571
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:04,640
Corbin has, in my opinion, an admirable

572
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,720
inner strength." uh the Saudi Arabia

573
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,520
Iran matter in the on the other hand

574
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:12,480
Assaf Bay says that Saudi Arabia will

575
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:15,039
end up with belly up and Muhammad Saman

576
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,039
says well an already screwed up Middle

577
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:20,320
East will get further screwed up because

578
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:22,720
of the lack of leadership quality well

579
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:26,080
from the Atlantic to the Gulf the Arab

580
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,919
world is totally messed up that's alas

581
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,919
all that we've got time for this week

582
00:25:27,919 --> 00:25:31,840
which means unfortunately that's the end

583
00:25:29,919 --> 00:25:33,640
of the show you can stay in touch with

584
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,159
us though on Twitter at

585
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,840
RT_Sputnick and on Facebook Sputnik on

586
00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:40,159
Russia Today. It's goodbye from me,

587
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:43,559
Gayatri, and from me, George Galloway.

588
00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:43,559
It's been marvelous.