1 00:00:00,780 --> 00:00:05,169 [Music] 2 00:00:09,810 --> 00:00:16,519 [Music] 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,519 Okay, I get 4 00:00:21,740 --> 00:00:24,850 [Music] 5 00:00:34,719 --> 00:00:39,600 Welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 6 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,760 with me George Galloway Gat's on the 7 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:45,760 beach in Bali but she'll be back next 8 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:48,800 week. Nan Brown, I'm sure battle has 9 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:52,239 joined the battle over whether Britain 10 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:55,199 remains in the European Union or decides 11 00:00:52,239 --> 00:00:57,680 to leave and join the world. Over the 12 00:00:55,199 --> 00:01:00,239 next weeks, we'll be interviewing many 13 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:03,280 people from different sides of the 14 00:01:00,239 --> 00:01:06,159 argument. I put my cards on the table 15 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:09,600 just the other week here on Sputnik. 16 00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:13,200 time for leaving and therefore there may 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:16,159 or may not be fireworks in the next 25 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:19,280 minutes or so because I'm interviewing 19 00:01:16,159 --> 00:01:23,040 the man who more than any other has 20 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:25,680 brought us to this referendum. He scored 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,840 4 million votes in the recent general 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,799 election. Not that he got much for his 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,799 troubles. one MP who seems, if he 24 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:35,439 doesn't mind me saying so, a little 25 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:38,400 semi- detached from the United Kingdom 26 00:01:35,439 --> 00:01:41,200 Independence Party, whose actual leader, 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:44,240 Nigel Farage, joins me for a special 28 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:46,880 edition of Sputnik. Nigel, welcome to 29 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:49,600 the show. I'll not pry into the private 30 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:52,640 grief of uh the loyalties of your one 31 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,799 MP. Uh, but I do want to turn to the 32 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,360 grotesque situation that you can get 4 33 00:01:54,799 --> 00:02:00,000 million votes and only get one MP later 34 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:02,719 in the interview. But am I right? Has 35 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,759 battle been joined? Is the referendum 36 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:07,680 campaign now on? Yes. And Cameron next 37 00:02:05,759 --> 00:02:09,520 week will be at the European summit next 38 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,920 Thursday and Friday. Uh, he will come 39 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,360 back. Uh, and I will be very surprised 40 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:15,520 if he doesn't call the referendum over 41 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,720 the course of next weekend. Uh, it'll be 42 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:21,280 June the 23rd and I'm 90% certain of it. 43 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:26,879 Me too. Uh but let's see if we agree on 44 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:29,120 the reasons why uh why wouldn't the 45 00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:31,040 government and those seeking to remain 46 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,200 in the European Union, not just the 47 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:38,000 government of course, why wouldn't they 48 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:40,080 want a long discursive campaign and a 49 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,640 vote sometime perhaps in October? Three 50 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,720 very simple reasons. One is the migrant 51 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:46,239 crisis will not get better over the 52 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,879 course of this summer. uh and we're 53 00:02:46,239 --> 00:02:50,879 already seeing um after Angela Merkel's 54 00:02:48,879 --> 00:02:52,640 somewhat irresponsible decision to 55 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:54,160 unconditionally open the doors, you 56 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:55,840 know, great tensions in many northern 57 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,000 European countries. So, the migrant 58 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,920 crisis won't get better. So, have the 59 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,000 referendum before the summer. The second 60 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:04,239 point is that you'll have noticed the 61 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,519 stock markets uh taking a big downward 62 00:03:04,239 --> 00:03:08,640 dive over the course of the last couple 63 00:03:05,519 --> 00:03:10,879 of weeks. Why? We're back to 2008 in one 64 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:12,319 way. Worries about the banks, worries 65 00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:14,319 about their liquidity, and of course, 66 00:03:12,319 --> 00:03:16,879 that knocks on to the Euro zone. You 67 00:03:14,319 --> 00:03:19,200 know, it is only a matter of time before 68 00:03:16,879 --> 00:03:20,480 Greece, you know, fails. Defaults. Yeah. 69 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,159 Yeah. Bounce it. I mean, you know, what 70 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,440 they've done to Greece, what they've 71 00:03:22,159 --> 00:03:25,920 done to Greece makes it virtually 72 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:28,560 impossible for that economy to pay back 73 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:30,080 the money. So, so fears that the Euro 74 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,599 zone crisis could come back or perhaps 75 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:36,159 even worse. And the third reason is he 76 00:03:33,599 --> 00:03:38,560 doesn't want uh those of us who are 77 00:03:36,159 --> 00:03:41,120 going to campaign to leave to have time 78 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,799 to organize, mobilize, and get out there 79 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,319 and campaign in the country. So for all 80 00:03:42,799 --> 00:03:47,120 of those reasons it will be I'm 81 00:03:44,319 --> 00:03:49,840 absolutely certain of it in June. One of 82 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:53,360 uh you alluded to one of the reasons for 83 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:58,080 going early namely a a perceived 84 00:03:53,360 --> 00:04:00,400 disarray in the leave camp. Uh I'm with 85 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:03,599 you in this uh campaign. We don't agree 86 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:06,480 on much uh but we certainly agree uh on 87 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:08,879 democracy and the need for our people to 88 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,400 be in charge of their own destiny. I 89 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:11,920 mean the whole point of this is you know 90 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,920 if you and I take different views let's 91 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,680 say on economics or government borrowing 92 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,120 you know the fact is we should be able 93 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,280 to elect governments with people like 94 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,720 you in it or people like me in it and at 95 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:22,880 the end of five years get rid of them. 96 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,720 Yeah. Exactly. Elect them and get rid of 97 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,080 them. That's the one thing we can't do 98 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,840 with the European Union. Well that's the 99 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,240 point and and and to me you know the 100 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:32,479 biggest single democratic point here is 101 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:35,320 that every directive that comes from the 102 00:04:32,479 --> 00:04:37,600 European Union is proposed by the 103 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,759 unelected European Commission. They have 104 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,440 the sole right to make law and the sole 105 00:04:39,759 --> 00:04:43,919 right to repeal law. And there is 106 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,919 nothing we can do, our government, our 107 00:04:43,919 --> 00:04:49,040 parliament or the British people in 108 00:04:45,919 --> 00:04:50,720 elections, be they national or European. 109 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,120 There's nothing we can do to change a 110 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:56,560 single European law. And and and that 111 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:58,639 frankly means we've given up on being a 112 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,720 proper democratic nation. And I want 113 00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:02,800 democracy so that we can disagree 114 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:06,400 properly. Yes. Quite uh my teacher in 115 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:08,000 this uh was my leader in 1975. I know I 116 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,360 don't look old enough, but I was a 117 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:14,720 campaigner in 1975 against joining the 118 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,960 then common market led by Mr. Ben. Yes. 119 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,919 And Mr. Foot for that matter. Both of 120 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:23,280 whom argued the principal democratic 121 00:05:19,919 --> 00:05:26,000 case that we may or we may not as a 122 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:28,240 country go down the road that Mr. Ben, 123 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,479 Mr. Foot, and I wanted to go down, but 124 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,720 at least we had the right to. Yeah. Uh 125 00:05:30,479 --> 00:05:35,600 in fact Jeremy Corbin and John 126 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:37,600 Macdonald's uh economic policy is 127 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,880 illegal under the European Union. Many 128 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,560 of the things that they want to 129 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,400 absolutely because you're stuck with 3% 130 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,160 limits you see on what you can spend. 131 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,320 And could I also say on on on a sort of 132 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,479 contemporary basis what has happened to 133 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,639 our steel industry over the course of 134 00:05:48,479 --> 00:05:52,400 the last couple of months. Look, we know 135 00:05:50,639 --> 00:05:54,160 it's a difficult competitive global 136 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,840 world, but what's happened? China's had 137 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,479 a slowdown. And what they've done is 138 00:05:55,840 --> 00:06:01,199 they've literally dumped their steel on 139 00:05:58,479 --> 00:06:03,039 the world markets. And we're not able as 140 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:05,520 the United Kingdom to say, "Whoa, hang 141 00:06:03,039 --> 00:06:07,680 on a second. That's not not here, mate." 142 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,880 Exactly. That's not fair play. And the 143 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,240 British government is impotent. The 144 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,479 Scottish, Welsh governments are 145 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,240 impotent. It's a classic example of how 146 00:06:12,479 --> 00:06:16,720 as a part of this club, we cannot put 147 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,800 the interests of our businesses and our 148 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:22,000 people first. Let's go back to the 149 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:24,639 architecture point. Who I I'm with you, 150 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,800 you and me, but who are we? Who else is 151 00:06:24,639 --> 00:06:28,800 involved? And how are they organized? 152 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,800 Well, we got two sides to this. It's 153 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:35,199 basically Goldman Sachs v the rest. No. 154 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:37,919 Um it's it's well in some ways it is. Um 155 00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:40,000 we could that's a good line that way. 156 00:06:37,919 --> 00:06:42,080 Well, it's the unholy alliance of big 157 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,520 banks, multinational businesses, and big 158 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:47,039 politics that is on one side of the 159 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:48,720 argument. Uh, so you've got um BS 160 00:06:47,039 --> 00:06:50,000 they've decided to call themselves. They 161 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,000 should have thought about that really, 162 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,800 shouldn't they? So Britain's stronger in 163 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:58,479 Europe. I know. Absolutely. That's led 164 00:06:54,800 --> 00:07:00,240 by Lord Rose. Um, and they were used to 165 00:06:58,479 --> 00:07:03,120 run Marks and Spencers. Well, that went 166 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,639 well. But quite quite. No, absolutely. 167 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,199 Are we going to do as well as Marks and 168 00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:09,199 Spencers? So, he's running uh the 169 00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:10,880 official campaign. Then you've got the 170 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:12,319 Labour Party who are going to do their 171 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,240 own thing. They're not going to join up 172 00:07:12,319 --> 00:07:16,240 with the official campaign. Alan Johnson 173 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,919 will do his own thing on behalf of the 174 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:21,039 Labour Party. Then of course you've got 175 00:07:17,919 --> 00:07:23,120 the SNP who again will do their own 176 00:07:21,039 --> 00:07:25,039 thing. So So there are three distinct 177 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,759 camps who are campaigning for us to stay 178 00:07:25,039 --> 00:07:30,319 in, but they're being funded by Yeah. 179 00:07:27,759 --> 00:07:32,639 Goldman Sachs. Wow. And JP Morgan. Uh 180 00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:33,919 the very people who I suspect many 181 00:07:32,639 --> 00:07:36,240 viewers are including the Labor 182 00:07:33,919 --> 00:07:38,160 campaign. Well, that we don't know yet. 183 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:41,680 That what we do know is that they're 184 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:44,720 going to fund uh the BSE campaign. Labor 185 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:47,199 are relying on trade unions to fund the 186 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,919 campaign. But I've detected particularly 187 00:07:47,199 --> 00:07:51,759 with TTIP, this transatlantic deal, it's 188 00:07:49,919 --> 00:07:53,440 the only way we can get out of TIP is 189 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:55,759 not to be in the European Union. That's 190 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,599 right. And I'm sensing that for the 191 00:07:55,759 --> 00:07:59,280 first time in nearly 40 years, the trade 192 00:07:57,599 --> 00:08:00,879 union movement are beginning to look at 193 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,240 this European project in a slightly 194 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:04,000 different light. So, so Labor may 195 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,919 struggle for funding, but that's that 196 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,080 side. And yes, it's backed, as I say, by 197 00:08:05,919 --> 00:08:10,400 big banks and the big multinationals. 198 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,680 And the multinationals love Brussels 199 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,199 because they actually get to set the 200 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,400 rules themselves. Exactly. To a 201 00:08:13,199 --> 00:08:16,759 disadvantage of all the small and 202 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,280 medium-sized businesses. Now, on the 203 00:08:16,759 --> 00:08:20,720 outside, I have to be frank, uh, you 204 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,039 know, it's not been, it's not been 205 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,520 easygoing. There are two distinct 206 00:08:23,039 --> 00:08:28,639 groups. one called Vote Leave, 207 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:31,360 Westminster based, very Tory, uh, good 208 00:08:28,639 --> 00:08:34,080 research, clever people, uh, but who 209 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:36,240 tend to talk, uh, purely about the 210 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,240 economic arguments against a more 211 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,599 populist campaign led by Aaron Banks 212 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:43,440 called leave.eu, which has aimed to get 213 00:08:41,599 --> 00:08:45,760 support amongst the general public and 214 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,839 has talked more about border control, 215 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,839 security, and things like that. And 216 00:08:47,839 --> 00:08:52,120 frankly, there's been a pitch battle 217 00:08:49,839 --> 00:08:54,399 going on between these two groups. 218 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,839 And whatever the rights and wrongs of 219 00:08:54,399 --> 00:08:57,600 it, I think they've both done 220 00:08:55,839 --> 00:08:59,440 reputational damage to each other 221 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,040 through this. So, I'm part of a new 222 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,959 initiative which has come through the 223 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,120 middle. Um, and that's called GO 224 00:09:02,959 --> 00:09:06,399 grassroots out. Uh, and we've got, you 225 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,200 know, from Labour, we got people like 226 00:09:06,399 --> 00:09:11,279 Kate Hoey involved, myself obviously, 227 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,240 and all all the UKippers. There were 228 00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:16,560 some Tory backbench MPs involved and 229 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,880 indeed David Davis shared some old trade 230 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:21,120 union lads and we get John Boyd who was 231 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,040 a veteran of that campaign back in 1975 232 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,519 that you talked about shared a platform 233 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,760 last Friday night in Manchester with me 234 00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:29,839 and others with Simon Heer who is a 235 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,839 commentator who's very much on the right 236 00:09:29,839 --> 00:09:33,839 of British politics. So what we're doing 237 00:09:31,839 --> 00:09:36,240 is we're bringing together the left and 238 00:09:33,839 --> 00:09:38,320 right under this go umbrella and we will 239 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,880 now we will now appeal for the 240 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,399 designation. And what I want to do, you 241 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,080 know, I'm not interested. This isn't 242 00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:45,600 about left and right. It's about right 243 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,200 and wrong. And we should be a 244 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,920 self-governing nation. And that's what 245 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,760 we're going to try and do. Yes. And of 246 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,640 course, I wouldn't dream of uh joining 247 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:57,200 the the Tory Bigwigs. I saw them in the 248 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,920 streets of Westminster uh yesterday. Uh 249 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,080 Liam Fox and so on. Uh I I just couldn't 250 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:06,000 join with them. So, we'll probably uh 251 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:08,560 join up with Go. Uh not because we agree 252 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:11,839 with the other parties, even John Boyd. 253 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:14,959 Uh but because we have to have some form 254 00:10:11,839 --> 00:10:18,399 of common action. Absolutely. Uh and uh 255 00:10:14,959 --> 00:10:20,399 in Scotland, Jim Sillers, very popular 256 00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:23,200 uh nationalist politician. I I have to 257 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:24,800 say that Scotland, we we've had this big 258 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,320 debate about what the European Union is 259 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,880 and what it means and and and it's been 260 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,480 raging in England for years. It's 261 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,560 bypassed Scotland. Yeah. Because the 262 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,000 word independence and remember this 263 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:36,399 referendum is about do we want to be an 264 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,600 independent country or not. the word 265 00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:39,200 independence of Scotland has meant 266 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,760 something different and there is this 267 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,120 myth put out by the Edinburgh media that 268 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,440 the whole of Scotland loves the European 269 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,800 Union and it's not true but there's not 270 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,320 been a proper debate in Scotland and I 271 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,760 think once it starts we'll be very 272 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,519 surprised because we'll find that 273 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,399 Scottish opinions on this are very 274 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:59,360 similar to the now the uh June 23rd you 275 00:10:54,399 --> 00:11:01,760 say uh same electoral register uh that 276 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:04,720 the current elections in Scotland, 277 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:07,040 Wales, London and so on are are are 278 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:10,959 fighting on Is there a demographic issue 279 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:14,320 here? Uh do we have a uh a strategy of 280 00:11:10,959 --> 00:11:16,800 approach to uh the minority ethnic 281 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:20,160 communities for example to young people? 282 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,680 What's interesting is all across Europe 283 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,360 the movements that have sprung up 284 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,320 against this failing can I say 285 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:28,720 established order uh if we look at 286 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:31,680 Pademos in Spain we look at Siza in 287 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:34,560 Greece very much on the left of politics 288 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:36,959 and what you see is overwhelmingly their 289 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:38,480 voters are under 30 look at Marine Lean 290 00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:40,959 in France very much on the right of 291 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:44,560 politics overwhelmingly her voters are 292 00:11:40,959 --> 00:11:46,880 under 30 uh you look at even Beep Grill 293 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:49,279 the comedian who's now on 31% % in the 294 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:52,079 Italian opinion polls. Yeah. And he said 295 00:11:49,279 --> 00:11:54,560 to me very few voters over 50 support 296 00:11:52,079 --> 00:11:57,040 him. So across the continent it's the 297 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:58,800 youth that in this country it's a revolt 298 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,040 Nigel. It's a revolt against the 299 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,120 prevailing orthodoxy which Dr. Johnson 300 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,200 described as the grimst dictatorship of 301 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,600 them all. Quite here it's not so simple. 302 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:11,519 Here it's not so simple. Here at the 303 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:13,279 moment the under30s are in favor of 304 00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:16,320 staying part of this union. And I do you 305 00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:18,720 listen when I look at the universities 306 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:21,440 around this country and when you realize 307 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,440 there are nearly 300 Jean Monet 308 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,800 professorships in British universities 309 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,959 and you begin to think actually our 310 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,800 youngsters have not been exposed to both 311 00:12:26,959 --> 00:12:30,320 sides of the argument. So the answer to 312 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,959 your question is that to win this 313 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,360 referendum we've got to put together 314 00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:38,079 under this go umbrella the biggest 315 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:40,320 alliance of people from across all ages, 316 00:12:38,079 --> 00:12:43,600 races and spectrums that we possibly 317 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:47,480 can. If we do it, we will win. I'll be 318 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,480 right back with more of this. 319 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:54,800 Welcome back to Sputnik with me, George 320 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,279 Galloway, orbiting this particular world 321 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,839 this week with Nigel Farage, the leader 322 00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:02,240 of the United Kingdom Independence Party 323 00:12:59,839 --> 00:13:04,639 and the man who more than any other has 324 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,560 brought us to the point where we're 325 00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:10,800 going to get a chance to vote on whether 326 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:14,480 to stay or go from the European Union. 327 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:17,120 Nigel, the arguments then, let's distill 328 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:19,760 them. Uh, I've got my own, of course, 329 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:23,519 but you're the guest. Tell me first, 330 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:25,519 what are your best three or four reasons 331 00:13:23,519 --> 00:13:27,040 why we need to leave? Um, I'm with 332 00:13:25,519 --> 00:13:28,480 Churchill. Democracy is a dreadful 333 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,639 system, but it's by far the best that 334 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,480 mankind has yet invented. And and we're 335 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:34,079 part of this club, as I said to you 336 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,079 earlier. Well, we can't change a single 337 00:13:34,079 --> 00:13:37,360 European law through the ballot box. 338 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:39,279 That is wrong. I believe in 339 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,639 parliamentary democracy. I believe it's 340 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:42,959 something that is fundamentally 341 00:13:40,639 --> 00:13:45,519 important. I believe it keeps the peace 342 00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:47,120 uh you know within our country. Uh and I 343 00:13:45,519 --> 00:13:49,120 want us to be self-governing. I want us 344 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,800 to be independent. I want us to set our 345 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,399 own economic policies which people like 346 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,240 you and I can argue like cat and dog 347 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:57,360 about but set our own economic policies. 348 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,519 But I also think that limiting ourselves 349 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,560 to thinking that Europe is the beall and 350 00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:01,760 endall of the world is a massive 351 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,680 mistake. I think that's the biggest 352 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,880 argument. Massive mistake. They pose the 353 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:08,560 EU as the internationalist option but 354 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,320 actually the vast majority of countries 355 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,920 in the world are not in the EU. Not 356 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,959 quite. And I mean look, you know, there 357 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:17,040 are 2.2 billion people inside the 358 00:14:14,959 --> 00:14:19,279 Commonwealth, you know, from India to 359 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,519 Australia to right across the world. 360 00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:22,880 This remarkable club which comes 361 00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:24,240 together for summits where we're 362 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,079 friends, where we share a common 363 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,760 language. I mean, goodness me, these 364 00:14:26,079 --> 00:14:29,760 countries fought beside us in two world 365 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,440 wars. There is a very strong link and 366 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,279 bond. And what we've done is we've 367 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,680 turned our back on this big 368 00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:37,839 international community, almost family, 369 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,920 some of whom indeed are doing rather 370 00:14:37,839 --> 00:14:42,160 well. uh uh having a special 371 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,839 relationship with India is something to 372 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,800 have quite and look at Canada it's done 373 00:14:43,839 --> 00:14:48,079 wonderfully well um Australia I mean 374 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,480 many of these countries have done 375 00:14:48,079 --> 00:14:53,680 phenomenally well so I want us to be 376 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:57,399 quite frankly it's out of not Europe but 377 00:14:53,680 --> 00:15:00,320 it's out of political union in 378 00:14:57,399 --> 00:15:02,079 Europe dealing with Europe 379 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,480 this is what upsets me you know Lord 380 00:15:02,079 --> 00:15:07,600 Rose he of marks and sparks fame and and 381 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:10,199 and and all the others they kind of say 382 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,800 that that that that we'd be becoming 383 00:15:10,199 --> 00:15:14,720 isolationist if we left. No, no, we 384 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,399 wouldn't. And we sometimes underestimate 385 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,839 our own power here. You know, we are 386 00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:19,199 still the fifth biggest economy in the 387 00:15:17,839 --> 00:15:20,800 world. We are still the eighth biggest 388 00:15:19,199 --> 00:15:22,800 manufacturer in the world. We do have a 389 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,880 seat on the UN Security Council. We are 390 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,720 still we speak the world's language for 391 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:30,519 goodness sake. And and I want us to play 392 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:32,800 our role in the world, not to be an 8% 393 00:15:30,519 --> 00:15:35,360 vote in Brussels at the Council of 394 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,600 Ministers. And the Commonwealth is one 395 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:40,000 thing and I I I agree with you on that, 396 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,480 but the bricks are are something even 397 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,959 bigger. Sure. Brazil, Russia, India, 398 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,279 China, South Africa, Iran now coming 399 00:15:44,959 --> 00:15:49,680 back into the international economy, 400 00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:52,320 wouldn't having a special relationship 401 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:54,399 with these kind of countries be more 402 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,759 profitable for us than what we currently 403 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:58,399 have? And here's the clue. Here's the 404 00:15:55,759 --> 00:16:00,800 clue. You see, very few people realize 405 00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:03,680 this, but as the fifth biggest economy 406 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,519 in the world, we are forbidden from 407 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,199 making our own deals and trade 408 00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:09,680 relationships with any other country on 409 00:16:07,199 --> 00:16:11,759 earth. That must be done for us by an 410 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,600 unelected bureaucrat based in Brussels. 411 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:15,440 And and that when you think about it, 412 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,279 and we're told, I did a big debate with 413 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,120 Nick Kle in 2014 in the run-up to the 414 00:16:17,279 --> 00:16:20,720 European elections, and Nick said, 415 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,560 "Britain's not big enough and strong 416 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,839 enough to negotiate its own trade 417 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:27,440 deals." I said, "Look, Iceland with a 418 00:16:25,839 --> 00:16:29,120 third of a million people has just 419 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,120 signed a trade deal with China. I'm 420 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,279 certain that if they're big enough to do 421 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,199 it, we're big enough to do it." But 422 00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:37,279 here's the key. What Kle meant isn't 423 00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:39,600 we're not big enough, we're not good 424 00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:42,000 enough. Our political class no longer 425 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,639 think we are capable as a people of 426 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,040 running our own affairs. They've lost 427 00:16:44,639 --> 00:16:48,720 faith in this country and its people. 428 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,320 Well, I haven't. And what'll win us this 429 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,000 referendum ultimately is people saying, 430 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,079 "Do you know what? we are blooming well 431 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,000 good enough to live in a democracy, make 432 00:16:54,079 --> 00:16:57,920 our own rules, control our own borders 433 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,160 and live our own lives. It's even worse, 434 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:03,440 you know, that it's not just that we 435 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:06,240 have subsumed our right to make trading 436 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:09,120 uh deals with uh the rest of the world. 437 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:12,240 We have a foreign policy uh which is run 438 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:14,079 by completely unelected people. I mean 439 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,240 Katherine Ashton, she rose without 440 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:18,160 trace, never been elected to anything. 441 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,640 never elected to anything in her life 442 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:23,520 and she ended as the European foreign 443 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:27,760 minister. In which position? She picked 444 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:30,799 a fight on our behalf with half of the 445 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,880 bricks if not more than uh than half. So 446 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:36,480 it's not just that we're not allowed to 447 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:39,600 make individual uh bilateral deals with 448 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:42,240 with them. We're towed along in a 449 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,080 foreign policy of unremitting hostility 450 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,000 to them. This is one of the sort of 451 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,840 secrets of British politics. When 452 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,000 Cameron came to power in 2010 with the 453 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,960 coalition within a few months of taking 454 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:55,520 office, he signed us up to being part of 455 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,360 the European External Action Service. 456 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,120 Now, this was never part of any 457 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,160 Conservative manifesto and indeed many 458 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:02,720 Conservative voters would have been 459 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:05,120 appalled to think they do this. So, we 460 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:07,360 now there are vast areas of the world in 461 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:09,200 which there is no independent British 462 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,120 voice on foreign policy. We're happy for 463 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,960 it to be done on our behalf by the 464 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:14,880 European Union. And I, you know, I've 465 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,320 said again and again that, you know, I'm 466 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,640 not, I mean, I'm not a friend or fan of 467 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,200 Putin as an individual, but the point is 468 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:24,240 to have provoked Putin, which is exactly 469 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:26,799 what we did over the Ukraine, shows me 470 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,559 that actually a European Union with a 471 00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:32,080 big active foreign policy could actually 472 00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:36,080 be quite a danger. Yeah. And uh it's not 473 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:38,400 about I mean I I respect Putin uh and I 474 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,760 think he's uh he's very popular in 475 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,120 Russia and that's the point. He's the 476 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:45,039 leader of Russia, not the leader of 477 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:47,000 anyone else. But uh but but we shouldn't 478 00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:49,760 be being put 479 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:52,080 into things which are against our 480 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:54,559 national interest when we have no 481 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,440 democratic right to alter it. I mean, we 482 00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:59,600 could not have told Katherine Ashton to 483 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,360 take a different view on the Ukraine. 484 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,360 But if we had our own foreign minister, 485 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:04,720 we could. And historically, of course, 486 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,400 one of the things that Britain has done 487 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,000 is tried to hold the balance of power in 488 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,840 Europe to try and stop bad things 489 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000 happening across Europe. And we're 490 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,679 beginning bit by bit to surrender that 491 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,360 right. I think it's a huge mistake. We 492 00:19:13,679 --> 00:19:17,679 should set our own foreign policy. Let's 493 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,440 turn to the issue of uh democracy at 494 00:19:17,679 --> 00:19:21,520 home. I alluded to it in the 495 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,520 introduction. It's not that we're 496 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,000 saying, certainly not that I'm saying 497 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:28,799 that what we currently have in Britain 498 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:31,520 is somehow perfection and that we should 499 00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:33,520 in an isolation as little England or way 500 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,760 uh withdraw into our shell. I want to 501 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:39,600 see many many changes here in Britain 502 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:43,120 and one of those is pointed up by the 503 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:47,600 frankly grotesque situation where your 504 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:50,160 party got 4 million votes and one MP to 505 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,559 show for it. Well, and I told Blair and 506 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,039 Brown face to face, manto man, just the 507 00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:57,760 two of us in two separate conversations 508 00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:59,600 when they had a landslide majority in 509 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,799 their pocket. This is the time to 510 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:06,160 introduce fair voting in Britain. Yeah. 511 00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:08,640 Uh so that people get the number of MPs 512 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,960 uh related and proportionate to the vote 513 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,520 that they got. I mean, you know, never 514 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,840 in the field of British democracy have 515 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,080 so many been represented by so few. I 516 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,520 mean, you know, that's a fact. That must 517 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,679 I mean it was it was I have to say 518 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,280 personally uh I found last year pretty 519 00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:24,799 tough and pretty wounding really you 520 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,559 know to have managed to get 4 million 521 00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:31,120 people to support us despite you know 522 00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:33,200 unbelievable sort of media aggression 523 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:35,440 towards UKIP and misrepresentation in 524 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,200 many cases. Look we need to have a more 525 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,880 representative electoral system but can 526 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,039 I say two other things? One is that the 527 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,200 postal voting system is so corrupt and 528 00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:44,799 so wrong we should scrap it and start 529 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,799 again. I caused it from the beginning. I 530 00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:48,799 mean, it really has led to to terrible 531 00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:51,039 things going on. I'm happy for a postal 532 00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:52,240 vote if you're 94 years old in a 533 00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:54,000 wheelchair. Yeah. Or you're in the 534 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,360 British Army serving around the world. 535 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,679 You're you know that you're going to be 536 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:59,280 working in in exactly Saudi Arabia at 537 00:20:57,679 --> 00:21:01,280 that time. Let's take postal voting back 538 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,400 to what it was intended to be. Um and 539 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,960 the other thing, and people aren't 540 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:08,559 noticing this, money, money, money, 541 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:10,960 money. It appears that at bi-election 542 00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:13,120 after bi-election, the Conservative 543 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,760 Party have quite deliberately and 544 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:17,760 willfully obeyed the law of this land 545 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:21,200 and massively overspent in elections. 546 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,559 Now, there seems to be almost a pact 547 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,000 between the Labor and Conservative 548 00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:26,240 parties that if they're defending seats 549 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,159 in bi-elections, nobody will report on 550 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,360 the other. Well, for goodness sake, if 551 00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:31,200 we're going to have elections, we have 552 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,640 to have rules and we need to have an 553 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,880 electoral commission that actually 554 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,799 enforces those rules. I would hate to 555 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,720 see British politics become like 556 00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:40,480 American politics where it becomes all 557 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,280 about big money. Michael Crick on 558 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:47,039 Channel 4 News has uh apparently scooped 559 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:49,039 the pack uh on this and I wanted to ask 560 00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:50,960 you about that. I was shocked that you 561 00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:53,840 didn't win your seat. No doubt you were 562 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:56,000 yourself, especially as your party won 563 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,640 control of the local authority on the 564 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,760 same day. Yeah. But it now turns out 565 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,679 according to uh Crick who's quite a 566 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,400 serious journalist, Channel 4 News, 567 00:22:03,679 --> 00:22:08,640 quite a serious outfit, that there were 568 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,360 many items of expenditure that the 569 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:14,320 Tories uh engaged in that didn't appear 570 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:17,440 on their election returns. Does that 571 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:19,120 raise the possibility of uh of a rerun 572 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,520 of a bi-election? Well, I don't know is 573 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:23,679 the answer to that. I mean, I I I 574 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,960 suspect given what Crick has unearthed 575 00:22:23,679 --> 00:22:27,360 and maybe and maybe there's more to 576 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,200 come. Who knows? He says there is. Yeah, 577 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,559 that's right. Um I suspect there'll be 578 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,200 somebody in Thanet who will make a 579 00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:35,440 proper official complaint to the police 580 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,200 um and let it take its course. From my 581 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,720 perspective, you know, if this 582 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,960 referendum that I spent 20 years 583 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,000 fighting for is on June is on June the 584 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,840 23rd, I've got to look forwards, not 585 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,080 backwards. So, let's move to 586 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:51,679 predictions. Neither of us has a crystal 587 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:54,400 ball, but here's mine. Uh I believe the 588 00:22:51,679 --> 00:22:57,679 only way is up for us. the only way is 589 00:22:54,400 --> 00:23:01,720 down for those who want us to remain in 590 00:22:57,679 --> 00:23:05,760 this uh neoliberal uh club called the 591 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:08,080 EU. Uh I don't think that it's ever 592 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,159 going to be more popular than it is. And 593 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,640 with every week that the campaign is 594 00:23:10,159 --> 00:23:16,720 joined, it's going to get less uh 595 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:20,559 popular. And I suppose my uh memory goes 596 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:23,039 back to the alternative vote referendum. 597 00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:26,000 Nobody voted on whether we should have 598 00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:27,760 AV or not. They voted against Nick Kle 599 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,280 and because they didn't like him. They 600 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,600 didn't like what he'd done putting 601 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:34,559 Cameron into Downing Street and so on. 602 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:38,159 If this referendum is, and it seems it 603 00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:41,520 must be led by David Cameron, George 604 00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:44,240 Osborne, Peter Mandelen, and the other 605 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:47,039 discredited members, largely discredited 606 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,120 members of the political class in 607 00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:51,440 Britain, they're going to lose votes 608 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:54,159 hand over fist. So my prediction is that 609 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,679 we're going to win and that on June 23rd 610 00:23:54,159 --> 00:23:57,280 the British people will vote to leave. 611 00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:59,440 What's yours? I agree. I think there is 612 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,559 a very significant piece of British 613 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,679 history going to happen in a few months 614 00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:04,240 time. I think we are going to vote to 615 00:24:01,679 --> 00:24:06,000 leave. Um and I do you know something? 616 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,520 It could realign British politics in all 617 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,520 sorts of extraordinary ways. I think 618 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,279 this could be the start of a real 619 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,799 fundamental change in British politics. 620 00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:15,120 And by the way, once we've left the 621 00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:17,360 European Union, my next campaign is to 622 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:20,159 get fairer, better politics in Britain. 623 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:22,159 I think that's right. Um uh the life 624 00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:24,400 will not end for Britain. Uh if we 625 00:24:22,159 --> 00:24:28,320 leave, the world will become our oyster 626 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:31,120 instead of this collection uh of uh of 627 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,840 states, some of whom were totalitarian 628 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:36,960 states not so long ago. Some of them 629 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:40,000 have uh very powerful far-right extreme 630 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,600 right uh political formations. Uh 631 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,919 there's only trouble ahead, it seems to 632 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,400 me, if we remain in the European Union. 633 00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:48,080 the world can become our oyster, but 634 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,039 Britain will not be perfect and will 635 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,600 have to be uh improved. Will Cameron 636 00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:54,799 fall if he loses the vote on the 23rd? 637 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,360 Let me tell you something. If a prime 638 00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:59,279 minister who through this renegotiation 639 00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,960 has tried to pull the wool over the eyes 640 00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:04,640 of the British public as as to what he's 641 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:06,799 achieved and and having lined up with 642 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,200 the big banks and the big businesses and 643 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:12,080 done everything humanly possible to win 644 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,600 a referendum, why would I trust that man 645 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,440 if the will of the people is for us to 646 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,679 divorce ourselves from this? Why would I 647 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:21,039 trust that man to do that job? He's got 648 00:25:17,679 --> 00:25:23,679 to go. Yeah. Uh whether he will fall is 649 00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:25,760 uh is one thing. whether he should fall. 650 00:25:23,679 --> 00:25:27,520 Quite another. We'll wait and see. Nigel 651 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,679 Farage, it's been a pleasure. Thank you 652 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,919 very much for joining us. Gatri will be 653 00:25:29,679 --> 00:25:34,799 back next week, but I've been George 654 00:25:31,919 --> 00:25:37,360 Galloway. He's been Nigel Farage. We're 655 00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:39,840 both, as it happens, on the same page, 656 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,120 at least on this one. It's been 657 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:49,069 marvelous. 658 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:49,069 [Music] 659 00:25:52,410 --> 00:25:55,479 [Music]