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[Music]

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I get

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me Gayatri

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president erdogan is steadily and

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increasingly taking turkey into a dark

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totalitarian tunnel it may be some time

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before the great people of turkey will

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see the light again seizing opposition

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newspaper by force and turning them

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overnight into government mouthpieces

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turning TV into mind numbing repetition

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of arogan sultanic pretentions are just

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the least of it the Turkish state is in

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a fullscale war against the Kurdish

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population as well as non-kurdish

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opponents of the president blood is

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Flowing on the streets of turkey turkey

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is at war with Syria too not least

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against the Syrian Kurds and seems to be

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trying to drag the rest of us into war

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not just with Syria but his Russian and

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Iranian allies it's all a far cry from

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the early years and the policy of no

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quarrels with the neighbors a peace

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process with the Kurds and moderate

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islamism which knew the way to growth to

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help us make sense of what's going on we

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have mamed aoy director activist and

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editor of Kurdish question M what's

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behind all this I think to understand

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the current situation uh we need to go

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back to the' 60s and70s uh when the US

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especially um with the help of the CIA

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uh was supporting um anti- Soviet um

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moderate islamist uh forces in Turkey um

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these were also neoliberal uh movements

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or parties and the gulan movement was

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one of these um their rise uh came in

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the '90s um together with Eran they were

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part of the same political line of that

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time um and uh they opened hundreds of

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charter schools around the world um and

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you know financially sound um and they

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uh were in a coalition with the an

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government when erdogan came to power in

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fact a lot of people say that it was

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gulan who got erdogan the goahead from

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from the US um and as soon as they came

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into Power uh they started uh slowly

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infiltrating um the police force the

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Judiciary they started taking over um

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the classic uh Finance system of turkey

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which was ruled at that time by the

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chemist secularist Elite um and started

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uh taking from Istanbul to to Anatolia

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to the mainland of turkey and um uh for

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a long period of time they they were

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working together to discredit to

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imprison the opposition so they started

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with the okon case which you probably

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know about in 2005 and six um and

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eliminated uh the chist opposition

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within the military um within politics

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and within the um economic World um and

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in 2009 again they did this to the

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Kurdish opposition by imprisoning up to

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10,000 activists in the KCK uh the

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Kurdistan communities Union trials um

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but I guess the cake got too big um and

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interests began to collide um eran's uh

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rise eran's power struggle with gulan

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ended in 2012 uh with them slowly

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starting to drift apart um the AKP

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government wanted to shut down gulan

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schools to break his um his influence uh

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some people were saying that he had up

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to 9 million votes in Turkey which would

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have made up to half of the akp's votes

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in elections um so since 2012 there's

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been an escalation uh of of uh this uh

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Feud uh between the two um and this has

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led to recent developments with the

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Zaman so Zaman was gulen's newspaper it

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was previously therefore supportive of

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erdogan it was the government mouthpiece

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yeah then an opposition paper and now

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it's been taken over how was that

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legally possible there is no legal

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ground I mean the the government claimed

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that uh it's it's a legal matter and

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there's a case of uh you know Financial

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kind of

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irregularities um but everybody knows um

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and and the government and erdogan are

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not hiding very much anymore um they are

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trying to weaken G well actually to

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eliminate him completely from from

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Turkish Society from Turkish politics um

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what's important I think is also that

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erdogan has uh developed a new Coalition

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with the groups that he imprisoned um so

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with the Aron uh the military generals

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um uh the finance Circle who were

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imprisoned the journalists who were

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imprisoned during that time from 2006

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onwards uh were then released recently

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from prison and erogan has uh created a

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new uh Coalition with that force with

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his former enemies enemies who were

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against his former friends exactly flip

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flopping here huh

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flip extraordinary um what's important

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is that this this Cadre who are very

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nationalist uh Turks um were also the

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perpetrators of the violence against the

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Kurds in the '90s the gladio and the

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Deep State uh they they were made up of

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these these figures um so now with those

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figures they attacking the Kurdish

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region in the last seven months as you

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know sieges martial lockdowns hundreds

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and hundreds of civilians killed um and

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this this goes on so now there is a

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uh a war against any opposition groups

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um that dare to say anything against

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Aron even the even basic things and yet

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and yet uh turkey remains uh a key uh

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Cornerstone of NATO uh which we were

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always told was the military Alliance of

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the democracies to what extent Can

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erogan Turkey any longer credibly be

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described as a

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democracy I think that International

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Powers NATO the EU the US are not very

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happy with erdogan and what's going on

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in turkey at the moment um because I

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think they wanted erdogan and the the

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turkey government to be more successful

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for example in their Syria policy um in

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their uh struggle with Russia for

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dominance uh influence in in Syria uh

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but obviously when Assad didn't fall and

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turkey as you mentioned in your opening

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um have trouble with all their neighbors

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now at the moment they've lost that

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policy uh I think um that International

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Powers aren't happy but they can't do

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anything because Aran has uh the refugee

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uh card up his sleeve and he's playing

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it very well um and also uh there is the

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chaos is still uh developing in in in in

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the region so they can't forgo or let go

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of erdogan completely but they know that

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uh democracy is completely under attack

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in Turkey he's now sorry I beg go ahead

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no no well I you spoke about umon

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cutting off uh gulen's influence but

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gulan obviously has International re

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he's got you know they've got Charter

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Schools all over the world is there no

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fear of a backlash from from the Turkish

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diaspora from you know the rest of the

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world babies basically abroad I think to

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complete what I was saying earlier um

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the reason uh they fell out was because

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of influence but then uh the erdogan

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government started accusing the gulan

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movement of creating a parallel State

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and now that's what they call it the the

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parallel State um and of gulen uh trying

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to influence the Judiciary trying to

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influence the

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media of being uh uh at least in part

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true it does I mean was creating a

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parallel State he was the Americans man

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in Turkey uh so in this sense from our

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point of view this is a battle between

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two puppets like a Punch and Judy uh

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exactly it's a it's a it's a power

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struggle between two forces who are not

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Democratic who do not want to

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democratize Turkey democratize Society

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so in a way although uh there's an

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injustice with what's going on with

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Zaman they also uh took into

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Administration the Jihan music agency

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which is also uh in opposition and close

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to the Gillen movement um but it's you

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know they're both very very uh um forces

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which are uh I think dangerous to to the

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future of Turkey um and the hypocritic

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hypocritical in in their policies and

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and what they did together against

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Turkish Society for almost 10 years and

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then what happened after they fell out

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um so I think erdogan being against Ken

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is not him I don't know struggl against

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imperialism or American influence in

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Turkey it's just to consolidate his own

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power for a presidential system and for

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furthering his own CA but his power is

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now virtually untrammeled uh he would

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say well he was elected to it just like

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Hitler was elected uh to it but he's

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used the elective position uh just I'm

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not comparing the two in terms of levels

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of criminality but Hitler used his

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electoral mandate to then Crush

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opposition and seems to me erdogan is

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doing the same thing the analogy is

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perfect I think um after the Adon

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knocked over the Kurdish peace process

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table in April

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2015 um we have we have said that there

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is in effect a coup a civilian

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government military coup in Turkey which

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is still ongoing and this is all part of

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that coup to silence to crush opposition

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and to take over every single uh sphere

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of of of social life uh so the Hitler uh

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analy um contrast comparison is is very

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much real although people in you know

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when you when you say this people find

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it a bit of an exaggeration the people

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on the ground in Turkey uh are saying

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this every

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day no one at the moment uh is emerging

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as able to stand up to this the uh the

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the secularist cists have been now Rec

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coopted the Kurdish leadership divided

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between Iraqi Kurds Syrian Kurds Turkish

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Kurds Kurds outside uh is not strong

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enough to stand up to it the Army was

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decapitated with all the generals being

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arrested and now as you say some of them

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being brought back uh the only thing you

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can say that uh erdogan must fear is

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losing the support of the Americans the

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European Union and so on his pretentions

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of joining the European Union are surely

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now dead I mean as you know dutu the

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Prime Minister was in the an EU Summit

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about the refugees um and discussions

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about turkey's uh accession into the EU

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are back on the table supposedly uh but

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it's a very um a very pragmatic policy

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on on behalf of the the EU as well um I

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don't think that they genuinely

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uh would accept turkey or want turkey uh

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in in the in the way it is but they have

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to deal with turkey both because of

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Syria but also because of the refugee

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crisis now the EU and Western

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governments have a very kind of

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two-faced uh policy I mean when all this

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was going on um before before Zaman the

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imctv an independent left uh

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oppositional TV station was completely

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blacked out without any court order um a

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public prosecutor wrote a letter to the

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uh to the satellite company and they

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just blacked out the channel um as eram

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J and John dundar who were two jum

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newspaper journalists came out of prison

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and were giving a live interview um so

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the EU did not say a single word about

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this they did not say a single word

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about the 178 Kurds massacred burnt

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alive in a basement in jiz so the

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gillan's influence and the gulan

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movement's influence is also making

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helping uh these things get talked about

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more in in the western media well the

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Western media is beginning to turn and

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erdogan's uh behavior is being

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characterized as blackmail over the

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refugees and so on this is a fascinating

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topic unfortunately we've run out of

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time okay but I think it's important

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that we keep this keep our watching

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brief on this subject thanks very much

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for joining us coming up next don't feed

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the trolls a look at the social media

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oper ations at work stay

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[Music]

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tuned welcome back to Sputnik anyone

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active on social media knows that the

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vile and the venal all have Twitter

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accounts but what happens when you're

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targeted systematically by not just the

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lonely man in his vest in an attic but

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by darker forces with resources behind

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them Neil Clark author and political

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commentator is one of those regularly

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targeted and and he joins us now my

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scars are bigger than yours but let's

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agree we're not going we're not going to

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show each other their scars I looked

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yesterday for the first time ever at my

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Wikipedia page and by the end of the re

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even I hated myself I certainly would

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never let my daughter marry a guy like

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that truly

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unbelievable the reason I had never

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looked at it was because I knew that

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every slanderer in the country if not

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the world had access to amend and edit

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and add to the page so I didn't want to

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give it any credit um that struck me uh

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as large scale organized subversion of

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someone's uh Public Image that's really

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what we're talking about here isn't it

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absolutely if you look at the the main

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editor of your page uh it's the same

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person who has edited the pages of

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Sheamus mil our friend who who's now the

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Press officer for Jeremy Corbin same

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00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,720
person has edited the page of media lens

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00:14:33,759 --> 00:14:39,079
through an anti-war media monitoring

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organization uh John piller's Page so we

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have we have a an operation going here

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yes the editor in question his role is

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quite clearly is to Target the pages of

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I would say

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anti-war uh figures like such as

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yourself and to put up the most damaging

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possible edits so that anybody any

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neutral person just coming on Googling

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George Galloway let's find out about

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George Gallow would look at and think oh

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my God this guys but then if everybody

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can edit it then someone can re-edit it

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into something POS well not quite

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because you have to be a credible Source

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00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,920
exactly anded that we're talking about

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who has put the damaging stuff on your

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00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,240
page he set himself as the Arbiter what

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00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,440
is a creditable source and the credible

340
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,839
source for him is anything that's

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00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,560
damaging to you or to Sheamus mil and

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00:15:21,839 --> 00:15:25,560
the non-reliable source is any articles

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00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:29,000
praising I wrote an article in defense

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of Sheamus who's a friend of mine uh for

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for the Sputnik website and the same

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00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,079
editor who's edited your page rulle that

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00:15:33,199 --> 00:15:37,399
that was not a reliable source it was a

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00:15:35,079 --> 00:15:39,800
Russian Source another article from the

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00:15:37,399 --> 00:15:41,279
hington post was ruled out that hington

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post is not a Russian site but he

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00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:44,560
wouldn't allow that on so if people look

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at your page look at Shamus Mills look

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at media lens Pages they will see the

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editor in question and they will see

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00:15:47,839 --> 00:15:51,240
what his agenda is quite clearly a

356
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political agenda it it's it's laughable

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in a way I think it's best to laugh at

358
00:15:53,639 --> 00:16:01,800
it rather than cry uh but it's not

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00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:05,440
restricted to attacking people it's also

360
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:08,319
defending others uh so that uh people

361
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,519
who take a diametrically opposed you to

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00:16:08,319 --> 00:16:11,920
ours they will never get negative things

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00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:13,440
on their p and the same editor that

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we're talking about who's edited your

365
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:19,000
page maliciously Sheamus Mills page on

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pilers media lens Etc protects the pages

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what you would call The proar

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Establishment in Britain to make sure

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that their Pages show them in the best

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possible light the way that the media

371
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,079
frames the sort of trolling debate is

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they always say you know it's the man in

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00:16:29,079 --> 00:16:32,120
the vest sitting in the Attic who is

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00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,680
targeting a celebrity but in my

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00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,720
experience the worst the most vicious

376
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and vile people on social media have

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00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,519
been establishment figures themselves

378
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,800
establishment journalists and I've been

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00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:43,120
targeted by one in particular for over

380
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,040
10 years now wow I reviewed a book by

381
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,839
this person in question and he subjected

382
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:49,040
me to the most incredible campaign of

383
00:16:46,839 --> 00:16:51,759
persecution for 10 years on several

384
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:54,440
fronts which is regular it's mon TW

385
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:56,399
tweeting manically about me seeing who

386
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,959
retweets me and then if I if it's

387
00:16:56,399 --> 00:17:01,040
someone he deems important enough then

388
00:16:57,959 --> 00:17:02,959
waiting in to warn them off with what

389
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,319
happens with me if someone says anything

390
00:17:02,959 --> 00:17:07,520
nice about me on Twitter a gang of

391
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:09,480
trolls descend on them to try and

392
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,240
dissuade them or at least intimidate

393
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,679
it's about marginalizing people is

394
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,839
anyone sends a negative about me these

395
00:17:13,679 --> 00:17:17,480
people all team up with them yes that

396
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:20,640
happens to me exactly exactly the same

397
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:25,240
thing I saw an article at one point uh

398
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:28,640
of the uh Israeli troll Factory where

399
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,440
students are actually paid money to be

400
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,240
on

401
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,840
Twitter yes is that what we're talking

402
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:36,160
about here or is it or is it more

403
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,600
ideologically motiva I'm not sure I mean

404
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,320
but I think that certainly with me if

405
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,919
you look at the Wikipedia situation I

406
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,360
mean surely the person in question must

407
00:17:40,919 --> 00:17:43,960
be paid to do that because he seems to

408
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,200
spend all his time all his life doing

409
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,440
that he must have an income from

410
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,880
somewhere on the Israeli trolls it's an

411
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,960
interesting story when we had the

412
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,160
Parliamentary vote on bombing the Syrian

413
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,320
government I think it was in 2013 wasn't

414
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,400
it I tweeted the night before you know

415
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,440
let's hope this is defeated and the

416
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,240
morning after when labor voted against

417
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,919
and it was defeated thankfully you made

418
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,200
a big impact there as well uh I actually

419
00:18:03,919 --> 00:18:06,600
uh tweeted this is great news we're not

420
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,240
going to go to war with Syria and I was

421
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,600
bombarded all of a sudden with with

422
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,760
trolls coming in calling me an Assad

423
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,400
apologist supporter of genocide with

424
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:17,159
Israeli flags on them MH all of a sudden

425
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,039
and I hadn't mentioned Israel yeah I

426
00:18:17,159 --> 00:18:21,440
hadn't written about Israel I just said

427
00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:23,360
we got to stop this drive to war so

428
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,559
clearly some Israeli trolls didn't like

429
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:26,880
the fact that we voted against the war

430
00:18:25,559 --> 00:18:29,720
against the government that was fighting

431
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,960
Isis and al-Qaeda in Syria and we

432
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,240
targeting those that's before we started

433
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,960
bombing Isis and Al and so clearly the

434
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,760
strategy was to Target those like me who

435
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,960
were opposed to that strategy which does

436
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,440
it work uh Neil well I I think that

437
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,799
we're getting a backlash hopefully now

438
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,520
because I think people only have to see

439
00:18:43,799 --> 00:18:46,919
these accounts and see their obsessional

440
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,760
you know their Obsession Behavior you

441
00:18:46,919 --> 00:18:50,440
you get them you get people who spend

442
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,640
all their life troubling you and this

443
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,799
platform they don't take any

444
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,559
responsibility yeah no no they don't

445
00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:58,799
well they do for some people you see if

446
00:18:55,559 --> 00:19:02,200
you're a celebrity or say a feminist

447
00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:05,320
antic Corbin labor MP yes and you the

448
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:07,960
police will be at the door of the uh

449
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:11,000
accused uh very very quickly I'm

450
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:13,240
regularly threatened with death people

451
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,799
saying that they would like to plunge

452
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:18,120
knives into me or uh and you were

453
00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:21,360
attacked physically was physically

454
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:23,039
attacked but when I complain to the

455
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:25,320
police they say well Twitter won't

456
00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:27,799
cooperate so we can't find out who these

457
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,240
people are which doesn't uh fill you

458
00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:31,640
with confidence about

459
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:34,039
the Authority's ability to combat

460
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:37,320
terrorism for example quite I mean I was

461
00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:40,200
a near 30e British Member of Parliament

462
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:43,240
physically attacked in the street

463
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:46,880
regularly almost weekly uh threatened

464
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:50,480
with death or harm uh and yet no one uh

465
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:52,200
ever gets arrested for the latter and

466
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,440
they only got arrested for the former

467
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:58,280
because we caught the guy there and then

468
00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:02,880
yes um I'm wondering though uh if it

469
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:05,159
worked because a moment glancing at the

470
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,480
profile of people who attack me would

471
00:20:05,159 --> 00:20:09,720
show you exactly why they're attacking

472
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:12,280
me they're either big supporters of

473
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:15,760
things that I'm against or big opponents

474
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:18,720
of things that I'm for uh or their uh

475
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:21,640
blairites or whatever and I'm assuming

476
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:24,840
that the ever more Discerning and

477
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:27,120
educated audience can see where these

478
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,280
things are coming from well You' like to

479
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,960
think so wouldn't you I mean the tactic

480
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,919
of my talk has been that if I get

481
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,200
tweeted positively by someone on the on

482
00:20:31,919 --> 00:20:36,000
the left then they he tries to betray me

483
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,080
as someone on the right yes he's really

484
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,840
far right you know tried to portray me a

485
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,360
sort of Leen esig which is ludicrous and

486
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,880
equally if somebody on the middle or

487
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,159
perhaps center right quotes me with appr

488
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,679
approval or tweets me with approval he

489
00:20:45,159 --> 00:20:49,240
comes in and his followers come in and

490
00:20:46,679 --> 00:20:51,159
say well yeah he supports he's Germany

491
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,960
he's a stalinist he's a friend of

492
00:20:51,159 --> 00:20:55,080
Sheamus Mill you know he's a tanky

493
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,600
whatever so the tactic is to try to

494
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,799
defame you with whatever group is

495
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,159
actually looking at you with approval

496
00:20:58,799 --> 00:21:03,320
most efficacious it does get more

497
00:21:01,159 --> 00:21:05,640
serious though when they do professional

498
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:08,520
damage to people I know uh without

499
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,640
naming names of uh of a very fine and

500
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,120
professional

501
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:15,919
photographer uh and these

502
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:17,360
stalkers uh in fact uh one of them very

503
00:21:15,919 --> 00:21:19,520
well known to you one of the stalkers

504
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:22,600
very well known to you uh

505
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,720
unfortunately uh actually wrote to

506
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,600
people employing her yes well that's

507
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,240
happened to me as well has it so editors

508
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,679
that might run your

509
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,840
are targeted saying don't run this stuff

510
00:21:31,679 --> 00:21:35,880
that's causing professional it does I

511
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,320
mean Financial damage just a couple of

512
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,039
months after my book review a appear one

513
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,000
of my commissioning editors uh in

514
00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:43,200
Australia received an email from a

515
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:46,400
fictitious person Alias who was proven

516
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:48,679
to be an alias uh but linking to the

517
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,440
stalker's blog attacks on me saying have

518
00:21:48,679 --> 00:21:53,559
you seen this that Mr Clark has lied

519
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,440
blah blah blah he's been exposed

520
00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:56,880
basically trying to get them to stop

521
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,360
running my pieces which was an attempt

522
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,120
to destroy my livelihood yeah and you

523
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:04,400
know IP addresses were traced that would

524
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:07,360
linked this person to to my stalker so

525
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,200
it's it's very pernicious it goes on on

526
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:11,520
that kind of level they may not be

527
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:14,559
wearing a vest or living in an attic but

528
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,400
they behave as if they are I mean uh my

529
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:18,840
overwhelming feeling as as we're

530
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,480
discussing this is what a sad life these

531
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:24,120
people must have but then we're new in

532
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:26,559
this digital AIDS I say new because now

533
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:28,760
trt is really booming which it really

534
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:31,400
has been for the past know few years yes

535
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,000
so is this perhaps just a face well I

536
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,159
like to think so but I think Twitter has

537
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,279
been a good thing I think Twitter's

538
00:22:34,159 --> 00:22:37,559
given Ordinary People a voice sure and

539
00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:39,799
if you like The Establishment Elite

540
00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:41,520
really don't like it and that that's why

541
00:22:39,799 --> 00:22:42,640
when we have any articles written about

542
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,080
Twitter and the mainstream media it's

543
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,120
normally attacking members of the public

544
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,159
who actually challenging sort of

545
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,520
establishment figures but as I said the

546
00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:51,159
most pernicious people on Twitter I

547
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,240
found have been these establishment

548
00:22:51,159 --> 00:22:54,720
figures themselves who have been lying

549
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,600
and defaming about people you've been

550
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,559
defamed they've been retweeting this

551
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,039
stuff provocatively

552
00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:02,320
and so I think that the way the whole

553
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:04,320
debate is framed I think Twitter isn't

554
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,600
really the problem itself it's it's the

555
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,840
way that these people get protected and

556
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:12,520
are allowed to do this this new age

557
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:16,080
though is on balance uh extraordinarily

558
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:18,159
positive for us we've got RT to give an

559
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:23,240
alternative point of view to question

560
00:23:18,159 --> 00:23:27,360
more we've got all kind a plethora of uh

561
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:29,480
of websites and uh blogs and Twitter and

562
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:34,480
Facebook and so on I gave a speech last

563
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:38,320
night to 120 people in the hall and

564
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:41,000
28,000 watching uh live and in a few

565
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,960
hours afterwards uh meaning that my

566
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:48,080
public meeting was attended by more than

567
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:51,520
28,000 people um so uh globalization and

568
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:53,320
corporatization uh produced these tools

569
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:56,279
didn't predict that capitalism would

570
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:58,880
produce its own gravediggers uh It

571
00:23:56,279 --> 00:24:01,279
produced these tools for other purposes

572
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,480
but the tools are now in existence and

573
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:05,679
can be used by people with very

574
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:08,159
different points of view I think that's

575
00:24:05,679 --> 00:24:10,240
very good I agree 100% And I think that

576
00:24:08,159 --> 00:24:11,720
I I'm the concern I have is that what

577
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,200
will happen with Twitter is that the

578
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,159
establishment will try to police it more

579
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,880
and the double standards are

580
00:24:15,159 --> 00:24:18,000
extraordinary we've seen that people who

581
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,840
have been apprehended over their

582
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,840
behavior on Twitter have generally been

583
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,520
people who have been taking on

584
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:26,930
establishment figures NE Clark thank you

585
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:29,880
very much for joining us thank you

586
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:31,520
[Music]

587
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,799
and now it's your turn to tell us what

588
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:36,720
you think through the portals of social

589
00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:38,720
media what's rling G so turkey's largest

590
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,559
newspaper Zaman was closed down

591
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:44,399
overnight right in response to that Tom

592
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:46,320
Copley says it was only a matter of time

593
00:24:44,399 --> 00:24:49,360
Zaman have been doing a great job while

594
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,679
the mainstream media ignores repression

595
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:54,679
anise Germany says what happened to

596
00:24:51,679 --> 00:24:58,679
arogant crocodile tears over the freedom

597
00:24:54,679 --> 00:25:00,039
of Syria # Gone With the Wind yeah I

598
00:24:58,679 --> 00:25:02,080
mean it was worse than closed down

599
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:04,919
overnight wasn't it it was transformed

600
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:08,200
it was like uh the Morning Star being

601
00:25:04,919 --> 00:25:12,039
taken over and turned into pro pro

602
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:13,880
government Sun type newspaper well um we

603
00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:17,279
talked about trolling should we feed

604
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:19,760
them or not atheist libertarian says

605
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:22,240
trolling is an art form and will always

606
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,080
be a worthy consequence of freedom of

607
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,480
expression of course he would say that

608
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,799
I'd say you know in your case and in

609
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,600
Neil's case it's actually a badge of

610
00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:34,120
honor yes sometimes feels rather sharp

611
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,840
though as if the pin was sticking right

612
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:37,799
in you well that's all that we've got

613
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,360
time for this week which alas means

614
00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:41,399
that's the end of the show you can stay

615
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:44,360
in touch with us through Twitter and

616
00:25:41,399 --> 00:25:46,799
rtor Sputnik or Facebook Sputnik on

617
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:48,880
Russia today it's goodbye from me gatri

618
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:51,880
and from me George Galloway it's been

619
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,880
marvelous

620
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,440
oh