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welcome back on board the Sputnik with

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me half Sakura Mustafa standing in again

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for George Galloway and me Gayatri the

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leak of over 11 million files from a

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panama-based law firm mossack fonseca

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continues to send shockwaves around the

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world the documents passed on by

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anonymous sources to Germany's daily

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zeitung with them sent to the

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washington-based international

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consortium of investigative journalists

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which then shared them with various

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international media including business

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garden and the BBC the papers revealed a

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network of secret offshore deals and

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loans involving political officials

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royalty as well as celebrities from

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across the globe but what do these

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investments mean and who do they impact

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and what will these revelations lead to

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hoping to unravel some of the mysteries

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around the opaque and murky world of

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international finance is journalist and

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activist Steve topple Steve welcome to

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the show thank you family Steve before

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we sort of go into the consequences of

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this massive effect and it just took

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through a bit about what it at what the

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Panama leaks actually mean and pretty

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much wild the timing I think the timing

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to start with is extremely interesting

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there's been an undercurrent of

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discontent and over the past few years

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with the situation with offshore tax

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havens has a lot been bubbling under

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public sentiment is quite angry at the

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moment I'm and broader than that public

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sentiment with the financial system that

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we live under generally people really

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aren't happy and I i think this brings a

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lot of things to a head if you like

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surrounding just how corporations and

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wealthy individuals do go about their

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business the one-percent be the one

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percent exactly that they're sort of

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table done yeah fabled notion that we

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will talk about the one percent versus a

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99 and so I think it's come to a head

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now I think the timing of the leak is

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very interesting because it's quite well

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known they've been preparing this

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information and had it ready over a year

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ago and

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they had access to possibly up to seven

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years and so why they've done it now

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various reasons it there's a lot of

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debate surrounding that I think it's

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important for a number of reasons

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because it shines a really bright light

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on the machinery if you like of the

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offshore tax system it gives the public

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hopefully unprecedented access to how

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these things actually work and operate

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and it also cast quite a dark shadow

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over the global financial industry

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generally and I don't think they come

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off well but we don't but the public

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doesn't really have access to all of

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them because obviously it's been very

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selective and the choice has been made

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by the consortium this is the problem

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yes and the director of the icij has

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come out and out rightly says that

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they're not going to release all the

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information on this now we're talking 11

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and a half million files over two

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terabytes of data and so far we've had

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149 files so if they're not going to

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release it all then how is the public

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going to get a full picture they've

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called it responsible journalism and by

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not releasing all the information I I

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beg to differ on that responsible i say

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it's fairly irresponsible because

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ultimately it's such an issue which is

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in the public interest surely it should

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be up to us to decide what what is

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responsible what is worthy of screening

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and what isn't the the affair has

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actually claimed its first scalp which

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is the prime minister of Iceland

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obviously he turned out that he had an

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offshore firm in the name of his wife no

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it wasn't exactly illegal but the fact

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that he didn't reveal it when he became

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prime minister obviously indicated

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something on towards do you reckon that

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other heads are going to roll and if so

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which ones I think the thing with in

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Iceland is interesting um purely because

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they were seen as a slightly

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revolutionary band country could like

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after the two thousand they crashed i ja

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the later bankers and then gave him the

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good bash as it were and for him to then

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be seen to be operating within that

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system which she was obviously fervently

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against and i think that's where the

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public anger in iceland has come from

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will we see more heads roll i I

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David Cameron I think he's I think he's

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probably fairly safe the time of this is

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wonderful Parliament's on recess aren't

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they so he can get a battering in p.m.

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keys yesterday from Corbin and I think

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given the timing and the fact that

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Parliament will be back next week I

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think could probably get away with it as

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these conservative MPs generally do one

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of the biggest names in his revelation

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is President Putin but he's actually not

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actually the documents the media I just

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mentioning him that hope how fun is that

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no it's like it's like you've got

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Putin's brothers dogs nieces cousin was

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using an offshore tax haven or something

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yeah its name wasn't it Tim yes yeah

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yeah so it's on Putin bad and no his

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name wasn't even in there I think the

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whole thing with this narrative I mean

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if we'd have known that this leak was

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going to come out on sunday you could

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have written script for it saturday

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night because we've gone from bosch

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putin bash china bash these regimes as

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they call them then we've moved on to

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having a cheeky dig at david cameron

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yesterday all the celebrities came out

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and then today when interest is dying

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down the news turns to what is actually

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important in this which is the city of

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london and the corporations that are

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operating within this but it's now day

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four of the leak public interest is

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probably waned on it so they made sure

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they got the stories they wanted us to

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talk about I as you say Putin yeah and

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his rather lane connection to it

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although make sure they got that out

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there straight away so it means annonce

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but you say you mentioned 10 as well

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they were mentioned actually there were

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members of the Chinese regime mention so

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Howard ever see there I i'm not sure i

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think that china's interesting at the

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moment they're a country which is trying

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to UM swerve away from if you like the

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pseudo communist regime they had and

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they're trying to move into more Western

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model where everything's service

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industry based like they're laying off

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about five million workers over the next

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five years aren't they and in the public

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sector and so how that news will be

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receiving China I'm not sure they're

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still quite authoritarian aren't they

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and

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the state does control the public's

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perception of their government I think

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that yeah that's going to be interesting

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how that pans out what the public and

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China do you think of it back in the UK

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do you think that at the very least just

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to sort of give something to public

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opinion which is very angry considering

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all the financial scandals over the past

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five seven years and is there going to

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be some change to banking regulations

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something that says that you know no

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more of this impunity for so many

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high-ranking officials I think the

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government will have to be seen to be

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doing something now yes because of

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Cameron and his colleagues have been

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going on and on and on for years since

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the last crash in 2008 they when they

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were an opposition that was saying about

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the new title regulations however

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they've sat on the hands and done

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nothing and so I think now it will be

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imperative for them to do something the

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problem being is this going to make any

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difference this whole system of offshore

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tax havens the money that goes into it

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and comes out is so entrenched and

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systemic within the world we live in

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that the proposals their table in which

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is country-by-country reporting of

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companies that use and blacklisting of

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tax havens and base erosion profit

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shifting countermeasures which is where

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companies moving up money offshore to

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make sure that the country they've

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registered in they pay very little tax

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is this going to make any difference

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it's like this system is I Hydra if you

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like a mythological Hydra you chop off

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one head and another one's going to

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appear somewhere else and I just think

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that it's too deep and too rotten for it

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them to ever be changed and if I'm just

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giving one brief example just to show

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how deep this goes Oxfam charity

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campaigning against poverty and they

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released report at the start this year

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saying 62 people in as much wealth as

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fifty percent of the world they accept

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donations from the Schulich charitable

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foundation as in jewett packard

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hewlett-packard operates in tax haven

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Bermuda and so oxfam's money that

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they're being given is coming directly

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from a tax haven this is how deep it

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goes in charities are receiving money

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from the offshore business

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if you like it's it's somewhat

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mind-blowing how big it is and i just

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think any regulation is it's going to be

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pretty inconsequential humans in bermuda

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and i've heard of many caribbean islands

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as tax havens but not panama obviously

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just come from imean law firm well right

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there what is it upon allah is there one

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more secrets did it hold this is the

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thing and this is quite an interesting

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point actually why Panama um and it

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might eventually shed some light on

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exactly where this lake has come from

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because palomar signed a free trade

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agreement with the u.s. in 2012 which at

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the time there's a lot of people have

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been armed saying this will encourage

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tax avoidance system encourage the rich

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to get richer panama and itself isn't

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one of the main protagonists of offshore

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tax evasion if you like um I think this

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firm is obviously a big middleman but

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they're not one the line culprits it's a

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british virgin islands bermuda the

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cayman islands so the fact it's come

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from panama I think that's one to watch

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I think if and when we find out who

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actually because of it they hacked in

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someone apparently was what of law firm

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said it was an outside nak nothing

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internal so someone's got in there and

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it will be interesting to watch where

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this leak might have actually come from

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and who ultimately is going to benefit

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from it what I'm interested in now is

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that obviously you say it goes in very

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very deep and it involves incredibly

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powerful people but I mean what do we

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expect does this is something it's done

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something going to give something good

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to happen or within a week we're just

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gonna go back and have a nice cup of tea

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forget all about it there's the thing as

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I roll oh my goodness people of dodging

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tax and like it's some shock a lot of us

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know it isn't it's been well reported

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like back in twenty twelve there was big

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revelations about um I think was 13

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trillion was avoided via offshore tax

275
00:11:07,850 --> 00:11:13,309
havens we all kind of went alone and

276
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then all right eastenders is on and and

277
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it is anything in the change I don't I

278
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don't know I mean another challenges of

279
00:11:19,129 --> 00:11:23,870
course we have the media's spinning it's

280
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like hell as we touched on earlier with

281
00:11:23,870 --> 00:11:28,550
Putin and China they're up to their

282
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necks and as well the Guardians garden

283
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:33,949
media group chief executive for example

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Neil Beckett's he also is an executive

285
00:11:33,949 --> 00:11:38,869
director of sage the accountancy IT

286
00:11:36,259 --> 00:11:42,409
company they operate 44 offshore tax

287
00:11:38,869 --> 00:11:44,269
havens themselves really so and it is

288
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within the media BBC rowing the fair

289
00:11:44,269 --> 00:11:49,219
head to trusts chairman she's a direct

290
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and pepsico who operate out of Bermuda

291
00:11:49,219 --> 00:11:55,519
it so again it's just so deep and as you

292
00:11:53,869 --> 00:11:58,519
say are we in the weeks time just going

293
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to be now on something else I think it's

294
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it's up to people like us media aren't

295
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constrained by corporate interests and

296
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the activists who are very present on

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social media and people like People's

298
00:12:10,369 --> 00:12:14,269
Assembly you have a demo next Saturday

299
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it's up to people like us and them to

300
00:12:14,269 --> 00:12:19,129
keep pushing this to make sure that make

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the link it does yes city it's exactly

302
00:12:19,129 --> 00:12:23,539
it is yeah this is the hope there's a

303
00:12:21,619 --> 00:12:26,059
solution to the current austerity

304
00:12:23,539 --> 00:12:28,059
protesters what it boast answer it this

305
00:12:26,059 --> 00:12:30,499
is just another cog in the wheel of

306
00:12:28,059 --> 00:12:32,419
global inequality it's not just in the

307
00:12:30,499 --> 00:12:34,279
West either I mean like there's a

308
00:12:32,419 --> 00:12:35,659
company like Chevron it's the 16th bit

309
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of the biggest corporation in the world

310
00:12:35,659 --> 00:12:42,739
massive oil company offer I at 180

311
00:12:38,749 --> 00:12:46,159
countries they have 264 subsidiaries in

312
00:12:42,739 --> 00:12:48,799
Bermuda alone 264 individual companies

313
00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:51,139
old sucking money out of places like

314
00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:54,619
several central african republic the

315
00:12:51,139 --> 00:12:56,299
congo all these third world countries

316
00:12:54,619 --> 00:12:58,339
are being deprived of money they should

317
00:12:56,299 --> 00:13:00,589
be having Steve Stoffel I think we talk

318
00:12:58,339 --> 00:13:01,639
about this firm another good hour but

319
00:13:00,589 --> 00:13:04,549
I'm afraid we'll have to leave it there

320
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thank you very much now in the next part

321
00:13:04,549 --> 00:13:08,119
of the show we're going to be talking

322
00:13:05,959 --> 00:13:10,309
about something almost as mysterious as

323
00:13:08,119 --> 00:13:13,059
international finance stay tuned t

324
00:13:10,309 --> 00:13:13,059
tipped next

325
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welcome back to split Nick the

326
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,500
transatlantic trade and investment

327
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partnership or TTIP is a series of trade

328
00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:27,510
negotiations being carried out between

329
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:30,090
the EU and the US as a bilateral trade

330
00:13:27,510 --> 00:13:32,310
agreement t tip is about reducing the

331
00:13:30,090 --> 00:13:35,220
regulatory barriers to trade for big

332
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:37,710
business issues such as food safety law

333
00:13:35,220 --> 00:13:39,960
environmental legislation and banking

334
00:13:37,710 --> 00:13:42,630
regulations are all affected by the new

335
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:45,060
trade deal yet despite its importance

336
00:13:42,630 --> 00:13:47,220
and the impact these deals are likely to

337
00:13:45,060 --> 00:13:49,380
have on Britain and the European Union

338
00:13:47,220 --> 00:13:52,050
as a whole they are conducted in secret

339
00:13:49,380 --> 00:13:54,240
with very little transpiring in the

340
00:13:52,050 --> 00:13:56,580
media described as an assault on

341
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,860
European and US societies by

342
00:13:56,580 --> 00:14:01,620
transnational corporations by Warren

343
00:13:58,860 --> 00:14:04,050
wants executive director John Hillary t

344
00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:06,750
tip has the potential to affect every

345
00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:10,050
single one of us to explain in detail

346
00:14:06,750 --> 00:14:13,890
why is member of stop T tip expert group

347
00:14:10,050 --> 00:14:15,600
dr. Lucy Reynolds Lucy um we know that

348
00:14:13,890 --> 00:14:17,790
every something is being conducted in

349
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,920
secret and we know that there is concern

350
00:14:17,790 --> 00:14:21,450
amongst the general public but before we

351
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,070
go into that can you just tell us a bit

352
00:14:21,450 --> 00:14:26,130
about what t tip is and what it

353
00:14:23,070 --> 00:14:30,420
represents certainly it's known as a

354
00:14:26,130 --> 00:14:32,340
trade deal but it's one in a series of

355
00:14:30,420 --> 00:14:34,170
trade deals around the world and

356
00:14:32,340 --> 00:14:36,660
generally in the past trade deals have

357
00:14:34,170 --> 00:14:39,000
been aimed at reducing barriers to trade

358
00:14:36,660 --> 00:14:41,160
so that sort of customs tariffs that

359
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,600
kind of thing this one isn't because

360
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,640
those tariffs are already very low

361
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,150
between the parties to this which is the

362
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:50,370
European Union and the USA and we have

363
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:52,170
parallel agreement about to be signed

364
00:14:50,370 --> 00:14:54,690
actually even earlier september-october

365
00:14:52,170 --> 00:14:56,960
maybe with the forthcoming day of action

366
00:14:54,690 --> 00:15:01,260
against it in May which is the Canadian

367
00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:04,500
equivalent which is called cita but the

368
00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:06,860
TTIP deal would tie the US and the

369
00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:09,840
European Union into a single market and

370
00:15:06,860 --> 00:15:11,340
the changes in it well as you say it's

371
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,710
very hard to find out what's in it

372
00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:15,480
actually they've required people who go

373
00:15:13,710 --> 00:15:17,820
and look at it only members of the

374
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,380
European Parliament and MPs they're

375
00:15:17,820 --> 00:15:21,210
allowed to go in but they're not allowed

376
00:15:19,380 --> 00:15:23,370
to take any notes that they can take out

377
00:15:21,210 --> 00:15:25,190
or any photographs or anything like that

378
00:15:23,370 --> 00:15:27,450
they're not allowed to take the text out

379
00:15:25,190 --> 00:15:28,590
so we don't really know exactly what's

380
00:15:27,450 --> 00:15:30,720
in it but

381
00:15:28,590 --> 00:15:32,550
we have had some information about it

382
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,350
mainly from the way they're kind of

383
00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:36,330
advertise it which is not all that

384
00:15:34,350 --> 00:15:38,640
convincing so we see that there's going

385
00:15:36,330 --> 00:15:40,950
to be a unification of standards which

386
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,720
will generally be down to the u.s. level

387
00:15:40,950 --> 00:15:45,810
because that's the form for trade

388
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,100
agreements around the world and so we're

389
00:15:45,810 --> 00:15:48,930
going to lose a lot of protections that

390
00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:51,780
we have in the European Union and in

391
00:15:48,930 --> 00:15:53,730
Britain because if they are inconvenient

392
00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:55,680
to the profit stream of foreign

393
00:15:53,730 --> 00:15:57,270
corporations American corporations are

394
00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,660
allowed to do things a different way at

395
00:15:57,270 --> 00:16:03,750
home they can very likely be able to

396
00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:05,700
claim that they can reduce the standards

397
00:16:03,750 --> 00:16:09,330
so that they will be able to trade on

398
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:11,310
equal terms so that's likely and also a

399
00:16:09,330 --> 00:16:12,960
very major target of it is in fact the

400
00:16:11,310 --> 00:16:14,970
privatization of public services in

401
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,530
Europe there's a lot of floating free

402
00:16:14,970 --> 00:16:19,020
capital that's looking for investment

403
00:16:16,530 --> 00:16:21,120
opportunities and honestly tapping out

404
00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:23,460
sourcing money from public services and

405
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,530
privatization streams generally is

406
00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:27,870
easier than earning a nice living in in

407
00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:31,140
fierce competition against each other so

408
00:16:27,870 --> 00:16:33,300
that is a big part of TTIP and that in

409
00:16:31,140 --> 00:16:35,760
fact is the thing that brought it to our

410
00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:38,730
notice the threat to the NHS that it

411
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,710
represents because in 2012 and

412
00:16:38,730 --> 00:16:43,050
instruction was given in internal EU

413
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:45,120
circles in Brussels to start the

414
00:16:43,050 --> 00:16:47,190
harmonization or complete if that had

415
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:50,070
already been started of national

416
00:16:47,190 --> 00:16:53,030
legislation on public services to us

417
00:16:50,070 --> 00:16:55,170
standards in preparation of TTIP and

418
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:56,730
delegates to that meeting we're told

419
00:16:55,170 --> 00:16:59,340
that the priority sector was the

420
00:16:56,730 --> 00:17:01,830
healthcare sector so obviously since the

421
00:16:59,340 --> 00:17:03,540
and the NHS is in an english-speaking

422
00:17:01,830 --> 00:17:05,910
country and the u.s. is an

423
00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:08,400
english-speaking country the NHS is the

424
00:17:05,910 --> 00:17:10,920
big target we know that the NHS is

425
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:13,200
obviously in the line of fire as it were

426
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,970
and that's been sort of mentioned quite

427
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,280
a few times but what are the areas that

428
00:17:14,970 --> 00:17:20,970
the public really should be concerned

429
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:26,000
about other than the NHS well we've got

430
00:17:20,970 --> 00:17:28,470
form from the the trade treaty mob on

431
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,740
food quality standards so there's been

432
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:33,630
fights in the past over hormone treated

433
00:17:31,740 --> 00:17:35,850
beef coming into the u.s. they're coming

434
00:17:33,630 --> 00:17:37,440
into the EU we've been able to block

435
00:17:35,850 --> 00:17:39,510
that because we have higher standards

436
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,670
but we won't be able to enforce those

437
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:42,419
any longer so we're going to lose those

438
00:17:41,670 --> 00:17:46,859
sorts of

439
00:17:42,419 --> 00:17:49,739
shins and unfortunately trade law is

440
00:17:46,859 --> 00:17:51,059
it's not really a set of laws it's a

441
00:17:49,739 --> 00:17:52,789
kind of regime written by the

442
00:17:51,059 --> 00:17:54,929
corporation's for the corporation's

443
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:57,779
enforceable against the people by their

444
00:17:54,929 --> 00:18:00,629
governments who have to be induced to go

445
00:17:57,779 --> 00:18:03,239
along with this somehow and under those

446
00:18:00,629 --> 00:18:05,639
arrangements everything is very much

447
00:18:03,239 --> 00:18:09,779
swung towards the big corporate interest

448
00:18:05,639 --> 00:18:12,359
so where there are points at issue they

449
00:18:09,779 --> 00:18:15,899
are decided through secret trade

450
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:18,090
tribunals staffed by their people they

451
00:18:15,899 --> 00:18:19,409
don't publish any information about the

452
00:18:18,090 --> 00:18:21,840
decisions and they don't have to follow

453
00:18:19,409 --> 00:18:23,730
precedent so basically they're kind of

454
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:27,059
making it up as they go along for them

455
00:18:23,730 --> 00:18:29,639
in their cronies and therefore what

456
00:18:27,059 --> 00:18:31,919
looks on paper like something reasonable

457
00:18:29,639 --> 00:18:34,049
for example the exemption exemption for

458
00:18:31,919 --> 00:18:38,399
public health services actually is very

459
00:18:34,049 --> 00:18:39,840
tight indeed so as well as standards

460
00:18:38,399 --> 00:18:41,609
right the way through the economy but a

461
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,419
particularly around health and safety

462
00:18:41,609 --> 00:18:47,879
standards we're basically looking that

463
00:18:45,419 --> 00:18:49,440
as a situation where the NHS is going to

464
00:18:47,879 --> 00:18:51,269
be forced into a situation of full

465
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,249
privatization to look very much like us

466
00:18:51,269 --> 00:18:54,450
health care unless we're able to rhina

467
00:18:53,249 --> 00:18:56,609
tional eyes it pretty much immediately

468
00:18:54,450 --> 00:18:58,710
bring your political will to do that as

469
00:18:56,609 --> 00:19:00,330
obviously hard to come by at the moment

470
00:18:58,710 --> 00:19:03,210
because our politicians are generally

471
00:19:00,330 --> 00:19:06,029
trying to encourage the TTIP a deal and

472
00:19:03,210 --> 00:19:07,980
are trying to kind of market it to us

473
00:19:06,029 --> 00:19:10,169
although those that find out about

474
00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:12,389
what's actually in it tend to be rather

475
00:19:10,169 --> 00:19:15,570
more critical and Peter Lilley MP has

476
00:19:12,389 --> 00:19:17,249
come out this last week against TTIP I

477
00:19:15,570 --> 00:19:18,840
think he's probably been reading our

478
00:19:17,249 --> 00:19:20,639
literature actually he's really quite

479
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,259
well informed and he quite correctly

480
00:19:20,639 --> 00:19:24,090
points out that the thing is a heist and

481
00:19:22,259 --> 00:19:25,499
we should have nothing to do with it so

482
00:19:24,090 --> 00:19:27,450
we won't even people like that are

483
00:19:25,499 --> 00:19:30,179
coming out you know there's a sign of

484
00:19:27,450 --> 00:19:33,960
nevermind facility MPE don't Trump has

485
00:19:30,179 --> 00:19:35,669
even know race concerned over this TTIP

486
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,070
deal and he is obviously the big

487
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:40,769
successful businessmen so if even he is

488
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:45,179
raising question marks then who is

489
00:19:40,769 --> 00:19:46,799
behind this TTIP deal well I mean I

490
00:19:45,179 --> 00:19:49,859
think it's a conglomerate of corporate

491
00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:52,259
interests john perkins in confessions of

492
00:19:49,859 --> 00:19:54,379
an economic hitman about his time at the

493
00:19:52,259 --> 00:19:56,070
forefront of the privatization wave

494
00:19:54,379 --> 00:19:58,740
explained that after

495
00:19:56,070 --> 00:20:00,660
the oil shocks in the 1970s when the

496
00:19:58,740 --> 00:20:02,820
oil-producing countries which weren't

497
00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:05,820
the general centers of power got

498
00:20:02,820 --> 00:20:06,720
together as a block and exerted some of

499
00:20:05,820 --> 00:20:09,420
that power back in the opposite

500
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,910
direction at that point that they're

501
00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:14,390
developed a very tight cartel of power

502
00:20:11,910 --> 00:20:16,890
between the different interests so

503
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:19,320
industrial interests extractive

504
00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:21,810
interests banking interests and the

505
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,960
general kind of hierarchy locked in much

506
00:20:21,810 --> 00:20:26,700
much tighter and the trade lobby is a

507
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,170
representation of that I mean it's been

508
00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:29,520
going in its present form since the

509
00:20:28,170 --> 00:20:30,990
second world war with the launch of the

510
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,760
Bretton Woods organizations the World

511
00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:34,920
Trade Organization did you see I am

512
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,150
adding me and the World Bank yes

513
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,520
absolutely I mean it's got it's a

514
00:20:36,150 --> 00:20:40,770
hydra-headed thing and in all all of the

515
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,840
marketing that puts it works out is just

516
00:20:40,770 --> 00:20:44,070
lovely but actually when you look at the

517
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,920
nitty-gritty that's where the problem

518
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:48,690
comes and it's very important to note in

519
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,850
this connection we can't see the text of

520
00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:54,930
the TTIP agreement or the SITA agreement

521
00:20:50,850 --> 00:20:57,330
or really any of it openly my Master's

522
00:20:54,930 --> 00:21:00,240
dissertation back in the 1990s involved

523
00:20:57,330 --> 00:21:01,890
analyzing the actual legal text of what

524
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,950
was supposed to be a poverty initiative

525
00:21:01,890 --> 00:21:06,570
oh boy what was in that it was

526
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:07,740
disgusting basically it was like well

527
00:21:06,570 --> 00:21:09,540
we'll give you some money because you're

528
00:21:07,740 --> 00:21:12,000
starving we have to turn over all your

529
00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:14,190
public services on the worst terms so

530
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,470
really you know TTIP and the like is is

531
00:21:14,190 --> 00:21:19,710
just one in a line of a series of

532
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:22,650
corporate takeovers and unless we resist

533
00:21:19,710 --> 00:21:24,780
if really quite forcefully it will go

534
00:21:22,650 --> 00:21:26,490
through however resistance to it is not

535
00:21:24,780 --> 00:21:28,230
impossible because the whole reason that

536
00:21:26,490 --> 00:21:30,570
they're at the moment trying to patch

537
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:32,580
together the regional trade treaties

538
00:21:30,570 --> 00:21:35,040
around the world into a single net is

539
00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:37,350
because they lost at the last round in

540
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,680
2001 in the doha meeting of the World

541
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:42,300
Trade Organization there was a push to

542
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,550
get through the general agreement and

543
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:46,800
trade in services which would have

544
00:21:44,550 --> 00:21:48,960
basically kind of forced open all public

545
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,240
services globally of the same sort of

546
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,160
terms and the activists won the battle

547
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,990
which is why we know they're basically

548
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:58,260
stalemated it more than anything so this

549
00:21:54,990 --> 00:22:00,150
is why we're now facing this so public

550
00:21:58,260 --> 00:22:02,070
awareness is growing actually how close

551
00:22:00,150 --> 00:22:04,400
are we to this ticket deal being signed

552
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:05,900
well you know

553
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,300
in some ways it looks like the

554
00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:10,940
inevitable march really because our

555
00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:13,580
politicians are going along with it so

556
00:22:10,940 --> 00:22:15,290
we really need an exceptional pushback I

557
00:22:13,580 --> 00:22:17,450
think to educate them more than anything

558
00:22:15,290 --> 00:22:19,820
because anybody that does actually look

559
00:22:17,450 --> 00:22:21,500
at it sees that it's completely

560
00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:22,940
outrageous so what are the groups

561
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:24,680
actually getting involved in in

562
00:22:22,940 --> 00:22:26,990
challenging this TTIP because I mean

563
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,750
obviously again the secrecy means that

564
00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:32,060
people simply not alarmed enough to

565
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:33,680
attempt to challenge it are there other

566
00:22:32,060 --> 00:22:35,630
groups such as yours that are involved

567
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,920
in in sort of trying to get answers from

568
00:22:35,630 --> 00:22:39,320
the government and actually pushing for

569
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,330
a reversal of these agreements um well

570
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,850
yes actually that that mobilization has

571
00:22:41,330 --> 00:22:45,530
gone pretty well it's been fairly

572
00:22:43,850 --> 00:22:47,450
spontaneous but headed by a very

573
00:22:45,530 --> 00:22:49,850
effective activist called Linda culture

574
00:22:47,450 --> 00:22:52,040
who was in that meeting in Brussels in

575
00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:54,710
2012 when she heard that our public

576
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,570
services were about to go down and so

577
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:59,740
it's gone from one person back then to a

578
00:22:56,570 --> 00:23:02,300
national network there's an expert group

579
00:22:59,740 --> 00:23:04,220
which which works on the inside and then

580
00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:10,100
a dissemination group called no TTIP

581
00:23:04,220 --> 00:23:12,800
we've got a newspaper here so various

582
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:14,120
sir initiatives to spread the word

583
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,500
around the country I've done a fair

584
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:16,760
amount of speaking on this despite the

585
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:19,220
fact that it's it's you know in many

586
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,140
ways not my primary area of interest I'm

587
00:23:19,220 --> 00:23:22,850
very worried about the NHS privatization

588
00:23:21,140 --> 00:23:24,590
in particular we have a little bit of

589
00:23:22,850 --> 00:23:26,060
kind of feedback on this if you like a

590
00:23:24,590 --> 00:23:29,780
little bit of market research from the

591
00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:31,070
fact that the many MPs reported that

592
00:23:29,780 --> 00:23:33,970
they were going around canvassing for

593
00:23:31,070 --> 00:23:37,040
the election and will being treated to

594
00:23:33,970 --> 00:23:38,630
education on TTIP on their the front

595
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,610
doorsteps of their constituents by their

596
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:42,530
constituents which is actually pretty

597
00:23:40,610 --> 00:23:44,360
impressive from one person only a few

598
00:23:42,530 --> 00:23:46,010
years ago but you know the content of

599
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:49,580
this is really very frightening very

600
00:23:46,010 --> 00:23:53,060
very briefly is it still reversible well

601
00:23:49,580 --> 00:23:55,700
yes it is you know if from what was

602
00:23:53,060 --> 00:23:57,560
really a fairly kind of ad hoc bunch of

603
00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:59,180
third-world activists and a few people

604
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,790
in the First World War technicals who

605
00:23:59,180 --> 00:24:03,950
came to assist them if that can still

606
00:24:01,790 --> 00:24:05,900
make the thing it's possible to do that

607
00:24:03,950 --> 00:24:07,040
but we need to make people aware so

608
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:10,130
thank you very much for giving the issue

609
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:12,410
the exposure in particular this is a

610
00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:14,900
very big threat to the NHS unless we can

611
00:24:12,410 --> 00:24:17,090
realize the NHS immediately this is

612
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:17,779
really the end of it dr. Reynolds I have

613
00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:20,979
to stop you there

614
00:24:17,779 --> 00:24:20,979
you very much have been a great guest

615
00:24:22,059 --> 00:24:26,779
you've heard the experts so now it's

616
00:24:24,739 --> 00:24:28,190
time to hear what you have to say gay

617
00:24:26,779 --> 00:24:31,399
actually what's been going on in the

618
00:24:28,190 --> 00:24:34,249
social media well you think that tea

619
00:24:31,399 --> 00:24:35,960
tape is still a big mystery but from the

620
00:24:34,249 --> 00:24:38,989
social media response it doesn't seem

621
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:41,779
that way we've had less response on the

622
00:24:38,989 --> 00:24:43,879
Panama a matter when we asked to people

623
00:24:41,779 --> 00:24:46,340
where the cameras should resign based on

624
00:24:43,879 --> 00:24:49,039
the revelation about his mother and

625
00:24:46,340 --> 00:24:52,070
trust funds to which Ricardo Picasso

626
00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:53,929
says he has been caught red-handed with

627
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:55,609
nowhere to hide Parliament should be

628
00:24:53,929 --> 00:24:58,129
recalled for an immediate debate about

629
00:24:55,609 --> 00:25:01,909
our democracy unfortunately that didn't

630
00:24:58,129 --> 00:25:04,940
happen aunty tip loads and loads of

631
00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:07,129
response Louise mcdade says assisted by

632
00:25:04,940 --> 00:25:10,129
the Tories it puts our public services

633
00:25:07,129 --> 00:25:13,219
out to privatisation I would fold leave

634
00:25:10,129 --> 00:25:16,159
the EU and Roger the Dodger says after

635
00:25:13,219 --> 00:25:18,769
45 a few states ruled the world after

636
00:25:16,159 --> 00:25:22,009
tea tip a few corporations will rule

637
00:25:18,769 --> 00:25:24,589
simples pretty scary stuff when you look

638
00:25:22,009 --> 00:25:26,960
at it is not very much and those are all

639
00:25:24,589 --> 00:25:29,269
the tweets for this week which brings us

640
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,769
to the end of the show with me half

641
00:25:29,269 --> 00:25:33,139
Saqqara Mustafa are standing in for

642
00:25:30,769 --> 00:25:35,599
George Galloway and me gayathri but you

643
00:25:33,139 --> 00:25:37,369
can stay in touch with us on twitter RT

644
00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:39,950
underscores Sputnik or on Facebook

645
00:25:37,369 --> 00:25:42,999
Sputnik on Russia today until next week

646
00:25:39,950 --> 00:25:42,999
it's been marvelous