1 00:00:35,290 --> 00:00:39,380 welcome to split Nick with me half 2 00:00:37,489 --> 00:00:41,960 Saqqara mustafa standing in for a few 3 00:00:39,380 --> 00:00:45,620 more weeks for George Galloway and fill 4 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:47,870 me Gary Islam being flavor of the decade 5 00:00:45,620 --> 00:00:49,699 it seems continues to generate much 6 00:00:47,870 --> 00:00:52,129 interest from the media and wider 7 00:00:49,699 --> 00:00:54,290 society after each terror attacks 8 00:00:52,129 --> 00:00:56,390 journalist and political figures feel 9 00:00:54,290 --> 00:00:59,030 they need to say or do something an 10 00:00:56,390 --> 00:01:01,489 attempt to explain the situation sir 11 00:00:59,030 --> 00:01:03,830 trevor phillips former chair of equality 12 00:01:01,489 --> 00:01:06,470 and human rights commission has been 13 00:01:03,830 --> 00:01:08,540 asked to analyze a large scale survey 14 00:01:06,470 --> 00:01:11,600 commissioned by channel for that 15 00:01:08,540 --> 00:01:14,930 provides we are told great insight into 16 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:17,120 the muslim mindset to discuss ICM survey 17 00:01:14,930 --> 00:01:18,740 on what Muslims and thinking is media 18 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,890 spokesman for the Muslims Public Affairs 19 00:01:18,740 --> 00:01:23,870 Committee mpac resin adine Rosa welcome 20 00:01:21,890 --> 00:01:25,610 to the show Bella Luna Rossa I'm just 21 00:01:23,870 --> 00:01:27,920 curious what is your overall sentiment 22 00:01:25,610 --> 00:01:30,079 of it because it obviously prior to the 23 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,640 publishing of the survey there was a lot 24 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:33,799 of talk about it and then eventually 25 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,539 when the show aired on Thursday know 26 00:01:33,799 --> 00:01:37,670 what did you feel when you watched it to 27 00:01:35,539 --> 00:01:39,439 be honest it was more of the same what 28 00:01:37,670 --> 00:01:41,750 we've seen in the past you know 29 00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:44,390 especially from Trevor Phillips kind the 30 00:01:41,750 --> 00:01:46,969 talk of multiculturalism has failed etc 31 00:01:44,390 --> 00:01:48,289 well I found very worrying I mean we can 32 00:01:46,969 --> 00:01:50,210 talk about you know how the data was 33 00:01:48,289 --> 00:01:53,270 analyzed etc people have done that 34 00:01:50,210 --> 00:01:55,609 already for me it was he was it was like 35 00:01:53,270 --> 00:01:57,950 you taken all his main phrases and 36 00:01:55,609 --> 00:02:00,049 topics from the handbook of David 37 00:01:57,950 --> 00:02:02,869 Cameron British values he was talking 38 00:02:00,049 --> 00:02:04,189 about Orthodox British society what is 39 00:02:02,869 --> 00:02:06,740 that he was talking about I need to be 40 00:02:04,189 --> 00:02:08,330 much more muscular with our values and 41 00:02:06,740 --> 00:02:10,580 that was exactly what David Cameron said 42 00:02:08,330 --> 00:02:12,350 I remember last year he actually said 43 00:02:10,580 --> 00:02:14,690 you know for far too long we've been 44 00:02:12,350 --> 00:02:16,160 tolerant of people just because they 45 00:02:14,690 --> 00:02:18,020 obey the law we need to do more than 46 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,060 that I mean something like a villain 47 00:02:18,020 --> 00:02:21,830 would say in a comic book and it's and 48 00:02:20,060 --> 00:02:23,600 Trevor Phillips was echoing those exact 49 00:02:21,830 --> 00:02:26,030 same sentiments and for me and for a lot 50 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:28,069 of Muslims for them it was it felt like 51 00:02:26,030 --> 00:02:29,780 this is just a PR exercise for the 52 00:02:28,069 --> 00:02:31,490 government to legitimize the 53 00:02:29,780 --> 00:02:33,560 surveillance bill the snoopers charter 54 00:02:31,490 --> 00:02:35,780 and the counter extremism strategy which 55 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,069 so many people are against and for me I 56 00:02:35,780 --> 00:02:38,930 think it was just about trying to 57 00:02:37,069 --> 00:02:40,819 swing public opinion more so and say 58 00:02:38,930 --> 00:02:42,709 look look out for these Muslims are here 59 00:02:40,819 --> 00:02:45,859 to take over their barbaric their 60 00:02:42,709 --> 00:02:47,629 uncivilized their the other one thing 61 00:02:45,859 --> 00:02:49,370 that strikes me and strikes me really 62 00:02:47,629 --> 00:02:52,450 every time there's a similar survey that 63 00:02:49,370 --> 00:02:55,670 appears is the focusing on homosexuality 64 00:02:52,450 --> 00:02:57,139 Islam and homosexuality and the reality 65 00:02:55,670 --> 00:02:59,030 is I mean up until a few years ago I 66 00:02:57,139 --> 00:03:00,859 remember the tabloids they would out gay 67 00:02:59,030 --> 00:03:02,810 celebrities and a lot of comedy 68 00:03:00,859 --> 00:03:05,599 materials about limp wrists and gain you 69 00:03:02,810 --> 00:03:07,760 Enders so just appears as if only Muslim 70 00:03:05,599 --> 00:03:10,159 to homophobic yeah but you know what if 71 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,510 another survey was conducted in an 72 00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:12,950 all-white sort of course world 73 00:03:11,510 --> 00:03:14,599 environment well that's exactly but see 74 00:03:12,950 --> 00:03:18,049 this it's more than that for me half so 75 00:03:14,599 --> 00:03:20,780 is that it it's the views that Islam has 76 00:03:18,049 --> 00:03:23,299 an homosexuality are extremely similar 77 00:03:20,780 --> 00:03:25,579 if not the same as Christianity and 78 00:03:23,299 --> 00:03:27,319 Judaism but Islam is singled out and so 79 00:03:25,579 --> 00:03:28,790 for me and for many more sims they say 80 00:03:27,319 --> 00:03:30,079 you're actually not genuine on the topic 81 00:03:28,790 --> 00:03:32,060 you don't actually care about the topic 82 00:03:30,079 --> 00:03:34,099 and if you're so morally outraged why 83 00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:36,139 don't we hold Nicky Morgan to account 84 00:03:34,099 --> 00:03:38,389 who when she was the secretary for a 85 00:03:36,139 --> 00:03:40,189 think of for gay rights she actually 86 00:03:38,389 --> 00:03:42,769 voted against why abstain from voting 87 00:03:40,189 --> 00:03:44,150 for people for gay marriage so hang on 88 00:03:42,769 --> 00:03:45,139 to where's your outrage then I think 89 00:03:44,150 --> 00:03:46,459 that's what many Muslim say that 90 00:03:45,139 --> 00:03:48,889 actually you don't care about the issue 91 00:03:46,459 --> 00:03:50,239 for you is just a stick to beat Muslims 92 00:03:48,889 --> 00:03:53,239 with and we're not going to tolerate 93 00:03:50,239 --> 00:03:54,109 that and to be honest Muslims position 94 00:03:53,239 --> 00:03:56,299 if you were to talk to the average 95 00:03:54,109 --> 00:03:58,759 Muslim about homosexuality their 96 00:03:56,299 --> 00:04:01,250 positions fairly clear which is Islam's 97 00:03:58,759 --> 00:04:02,540 doesn't condone it by the same time we 98 00:04:01,250 --> 00:04:05,120 don't go around kicking someone's heads 99 00:04:02,540 --> 00:04:07,009 in about you know if they gave it that's 100 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,810 a very simple thing and something that 101 00:04:07,009 --> 00:04:11,090 jews and christians believe in most 102 00:04:08,810 --> 00:04:12,439 monotheistic religions believe anyway so 103 00:04:11,090 --> 00:04:14,959 I think for most Muslims is this 104 00:04:12,439 --> 00:04:17,209 spotlight about homosexuality and any 105 00:04:14,959 --> 00:04:19,130 other issue it's just a stick to beat us 106 00:04:17,209 --> 00:04:20,959 with and it's to further a narrative 107 00:04:19,130 --> 00:04:23,389 that says or they'll never be as 108 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:25,039 civilized and as liberal as us and I 109 00:04:23,389 --> 00:04:26,840 think that was very interesting I saw a 110 00:04:25,039 --> 00:04:29,360 tweet about the the topic someone said 111 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:31,219 according to the survey which is very 112 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,840 skewed it said fifty two percent of 113 00:04:31,219 --> 00:04:35,270 people apparently we're not wanted 114 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:37,130 homosexuality to be you know to be made 115 00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:39,919 illegal but actually that was the same 116 00:04:37,130 --> 00:04:41,570 percentage of Tory MPs that were that 117 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:43,849 were against it voting for gay marriage 118 00:04:41,570 --> 00:04:46,430 etc so it's where do you you know it's 119 00:04:43,849 --> 00:04:48,169 where this is selective outrage on some 120 00:04:46,430 --> 00:04:50,780 issues oh god where the champions of 121 00:04:48,169 --> 00:04:52,340 liberalism and values etc but when 122 00:04:50,780 --> 00:04:53,900 when it comes to my only when it comes 123 00:04:52,340 --> 00:04:55,520 to Muslims and that's for many Muslims 124 00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:58,130 just doesn't sit right in that it's just 125 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,050 an excuse to to beat us and that is 126 00:04:58,130 --> 00:05:02,120 exactly understand the other side of the 127 00:05:00,050 --> 00:05:04,070 coin that's exactly what it outrages the 128 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,740 Muslims yes they're being biased than 129 00:05:04,070 --> 00:05:08,930 and selected upon that but also general 130 00:05:06,740 --> 00:05:11,600 is going through that is always talking 131 00:05:08,930 --> 00:05:14,030 about us as a immigrant community you 132 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,100 talk to you know my younger sister or 133 00:05:14,030 --> 00:05:17,900 someone who knows whose child was born 134 00:05:16,100 --> 00:05:19,250 at they're not an immigrant anymore at 135 00:05:17,900 --> 00:05:20,330 which point do you stop referring to him 136 00:05:19,250 --> 00:05:22,100 as or they come from an immigrant 137 00:05:20,330 --> 00:05:23,180 background don't half of the people in 138 00:05:22,100 --> 00:05:24,650 this country come from an immigrant 139 00:05:23,180 --> 00:05:26,090 background where everyone was born in 140 00:05:24,650 --> 00:05:28,400 England you know don't have some roots 141 00:05:26,090 --> 00:05:30,470 somewhere in London itself the majority 142 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,030 are from a minority but you see that's 143 00:05:30,470 --> 00:05:34,550 the thing that's always it's it's and 144 00:05:32,030 --> 00:05:36,350 part of it is it's a racist under tongue 145 00:05:34,550 --> 00:05:38,660 which says that these people are the 146 00:05:36,350 --> 00:05:40,669 other the fifth column Oh as Pro Phillip 147 00:05:38,660 --> 00:05:43,430 said a nation within a nation and that 148 00:05:40,669 --> 00:05:46,100 phrase it's it's shocking because the 149 00:05:43,430 --> 00:05:47,479 same kind of language and cut the racist 150 00:05:46,100 --> 00:05:50,419 undertones you've seen from other people 151 00:05:47,479 --> 00:05:52,010 and to be honest people some racist they 152 00:05:50,419 --> 00:05:53,990 love to try and Phillips documentary 153 00:05:52,010 --> 00:05:56,090 because they can say look look we're not 154 00:05:53,990 --> 00:05:57,560 real cuz look Mary exactly yeah that 155 00:05:56,090 --> 00:05:59,180 Trevor Phillips said it and he was a 156 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,190 former race in equalities minister so we 157 00:05:59,180 --> 00:06:02,870 can't you know we can't be bad we can't 158 00:06:01,190 --> 00:06:04,370 be bad and I think we'll actually know 159 00:06:02,870 --> 00:06:05,840 Trevor Phillips has a very poor track 160 00:06:04,370 --> 00:06:06,740 record on this whole thing remember a 161 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:08,900 couple of years I got him in a 162 00:06:06,740 --> 00:06:10,340 documentary about stereotypes and about 163 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:12,169 you know different what we're not 164 00:06:10,340 --> 00:06:13,669 allowed to say about race and you know 165 00:06:12,169 --> 00:06:16,070 he said many of the stereotypes are true 166 00:06:13,669 --> 00:06:19,190 the whole thing is cringe-worthy and 167 00:06:16,070 --> 00:06:20,539 watching yesterday eh it was so long bu 168 00:06:19,190 --> 00:06:22,669 was really boring but see it was the 169 00:06:20,539 --> 00:06:24,650 same peddling of the Islamic phobic 170 00:06:22,669 --> 00:06:27,350 narrative that sadly we've gotten used 171 00:06:24,650 --> 00:06:31,970 to in society but as you said it is in 172 00:06:27,350 --> 00:06:35,660 echoing david cameron's and the British 173 00:06:31,970 --> 00:06:38,300 values and do you think it's succeeding 174 00:06:35,660 --> 00:06:40,070 though yes and the reason is because any 175 00:06:38,300 --> 00:06:42,080 time we've seen a you know like a 176 00:06:40,070 --> 00:06:44,960 terrible terrorist attack that's taken 177 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,850 place so let's take Paris Brussels etc 178 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,410 what happens is often you see our 179 00:06:46,850 --> 00:06:50,810 government essentially using that as an 180 00:06:48,410 --> 00:06:53,210 excuse to push through legislation but 181 00:06:50,810 --> 00:06:55,010 let's forget the terrorist attacks then 182 00:06:53,210 --> 00:06:55,910 you've got media spokespeople you've got 183 00:06:55,010 --> 00:06:57,410 pundits you've got political 184 00:06:55,910 --> 00:06:59,630 commentators you've got think tanks 185 00:06:57,410 --> 00:07:01,669 you've got MPs themselves who will say 186 00:06:59,630 --> 00:07:03,110 all the slums a bit if the Islam doesn't 187 00:07:01,669 --> 00:07:04,430 fit in with us all they're up to get us 188 00:07:03,110 --> 00:07:05,480 there extremists 189 00:07:04,430 --> 00:07:06,980 all these immigrants coming to the 190 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,230 country the refugees look they're all 191 00:07:06,980 --> 00:07:11,270 you know economic migrants all this 192 00:07:09,230 --> 00:07:12,890 language what it does is it makes the 193 00:07:11,270 --> 00:07:15,140 average Joe who doesn't know any better 194 00:07:12,890 --> 00:07:16,670 will say maybe there is this is the 195 00:07:15,140 --> 00:07:19,070 biggest problem we face you'll forget 196 00:07:16,670 --> 00:07:20,390 Panama forget the Panama papers you know 197 00:07:19,070 --> 00:07:21,770 let's forget the fact that we've got 198 00:07:20,390 --> 00:07:24,230 bankers that have you know they're 199 00:07:21,770 --> 00:07:26,360 decimated this country's yeah yeah let's 200 00:07:24,230 --> 00:07:27,920 not talk about any of that stuff instead 201 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,720 let's focus on this five percent of the 202 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,610 population who apparently are the cause 203 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,720 of all the world's problems I'm 204 00:07:31,610 --> 00:07:35,960 surprised they haven't started blaming 205 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,520 us for global warming it um French 206 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,810 actually the French Prime Minister has 207 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,610 reached rigored the debate on the 208 00:07:38,810 --> 00:07:41,930 headscarf and one Muslim activists 209 00:07:40,610 --> 00:07:44,840 famously said well I'll tell you what 210 00:07:41,930 --> 00:07:46,700 let's rename unemployment Islam and 211 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,650 hopefully you he'll be able to tell you 212 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:50,390 in that sense but do you think that is 213 00:07:48,650 --> 00:07:51,470 it is truly a diversion from the 214 00:07:50,390 --> 00:07:52,850 realities and the problems that the 215 00:07:51,470 --> 00:07:54,650 politicians are completely ignore well 216 00:07:52,850 --> 00:07:57,230 undoubtedly I mean it's you know if you 217 00:07:54,650 --> 00:07:58,430 I'm gonna do as a survey that she asked 218 00:07:57,230 --> 00:08:00,230 people how many Muslims do you think 219 00:07:58,430 --> 00:08:03,320 there are in Europe and the UK and 220 00:08:00,230 --> 00:08:05,750 numbers were inflated amongst most white 221 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,490 British people who have Christian 222 00:08:05,750 --> 00:08:09,290 background because they cost me told 223 00:08:07,490 --> 00:08:11,060 these people are the fifth column 224 00:08:09,290 --> 00:08:13,280 looking to take over and they need to 225 00:08:11,060 --> 00:08:14,780 skew the conversation and you know it's 226 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,300 we should be having an adult 227 00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:19,370 conversation about multiculturalism 228 00:08:17,300 --> 00:08:21,470 about dealing with the refugee crisis 229 00:08:19,370 --> 00:08:23,000 about the Panama papers about the 230 00:08:21,470 --> 00:08:24,710 illegal wars that our government has 231 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,990 waged but none of that what they were 232 00:08:24,710 --> 00:08:28,640 talk about is hmm what's that single 233 00:08:26,990 --> 00:08:30,560 Muslim mother in Bradford what's she 234 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,150 doing because she's part of this this 235 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,800 plan and I think the other part of it 236 00:08:32,150 --> 00:08:36,200 that really annoys me other Muslims is 237 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:38,420 is that it's it's always referring to us 238 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,790 as a monolithic community as if we're 239 00:08:38,420 --> 00:08:42,500 all on one big whatsapp group planning 240 00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:44,570 things and it's really annoying that 241 00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:46,040 hang on what someone does somewhere else 242 00:08:44,570 --> 00:08:48,020 in the country is not on me and it's 243 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:51,650 very frustrating because Anders Breivik 244 00:08:48,020 --> 00:08:53,780 a white terrorist from a Christian 245 00:08:51,650 --> 00:08:56,480 background in Europe he is treated as an 246 00:08:53,780 --> 00:08:58,280 individual but if one individual commits 247 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,230 any crime in the UK who's of a Muslim 248 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,120 background somehow got only do with your 249 00:09:00,230 --> 00:09:04,340 religion and it's very frustrating 250 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,230 because all it does is it leads to more 251 00:09:04,340 --> 00:09:07,970 intolerance and we're seeing it spill 252 00:09:06,230 --> 00:09:09,680 over into more violence so I mean this 253 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:11,480 documentary wasn't that great but all it 254 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:13,490 did was well just another nail in that 255 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,050 coffin that says yeah Muslims are bad 256 00:09:13,490 --> 00:09:16,100 yeah they're against us and it all 257 00:09:15,050 --> 00:09:18,019 starts to snow 258 00:09:16,100 --> 00:09:20,569 and ironically it comes from channel 4 259 00:09:18,019 --> 00:09:25,130 the exact channel where it's news anchor 260 00:09:20,569 --> 00:09:28,130 cathy newman was faking that hole she 261 00:09:25,130 --> 00:09:29,600 was ushered out yes I remember yeah it's 262 00:09:28,130 --> 00:09:31,670 channel 4 i've had a couple of these 263 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,470 pieces in the past i mean you know and 264 00:09:31,670 --> 00:09:34,880 trevor phillips as well so it's actually 265 00:09:33,470 --> 00:09:36,259 not that surprising why i've seen them 266 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,899 in channel 4 i'd produce that jihad ease 267 00:09:36,259 --> 00:09:40,970 next door documentary 2 and all it does 268 00:09:38,899 --> 00:09:43,639 is is the perfect backdrop for the 269 00:09:40,970 --> 00:09:45,680 government because people are less 270 00:09:43,639 --> 00:09:48,110 likely to be outraged and fight back 271 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:49,940 about their rights being taken if you 272 00:09:48,110 --> 00:09:52,130 tell them they're hang on these people 273 00:09:49,940 --> 00:09:54,350 are looking to take over and in that 274 00:09:52,130 --> 00:09:55,610 sense as bad as it was they did a great 275 00:09:54,350 --> 00:09:57,709 job for the government because it 276 00:09:55,610 --> 00:09:59,569 legitimizes their policies yeah but the 277 00:09:57,709 --> 00:10:01,699 reason why I asked you why it whether it 278 00:09:59,569 --> 00:10:03,470 succeeds or not among the public is when 279 00:10:01,699 --> 00:10:07,100 when it first came out I heard it once 280 00:10:03,470 --> 00:10:09,560 on the radio and not much else in so I 281 00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:11,180 wonder whether the public sensing wait a 282 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:14,509 minute this is becoming Charlie's this 283 00:10:11,180 --> 00:10:16,670 is becoming a bit too the thing is for 284 00:10:14,509 --> 00:10:17,870 some people it did I think you know like 285 00:10:16,670 --> 00:10:19,399 oh come on what do you mean more British 286 00:10:17,870 --> 00:10:21,319 Muslims really think what are you trying 287 00:10:19,399 --> 00:10:23,959 to get her but also at the same time 288 00:10:21,319 --> 00:10:25,850 these societies become quite polarized I 289 00:10:23,959 --> 00:10:27,500 find that some people are very set in 290 00:10:25,850 --> 00:10:29,269 their views about Muslims that that's it 291 00:10:27,500 --> 00:10:31,370 you're bad you're all evil and that's 292 00:10:29,269 --> 00:10:33,199 that nothing that you say or do will 293 00:10:31,370 --> 00:10:35,839 change my opinion on them you're all 294 00:10:33,199 --> 00:10:38,329 terrorist sympathizers etc and then and 295 00:10:35,839 --> 00:10:40,670 what you and I think to be honest 296 00:10:38,329 --> 00:10:42,079 there's two problems one is as a Muslim 297 00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:44,240 community we're not doing enough to 298 00:10:42,079 --> 00:10:45,920 tackle this stuff and actually you know 299 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,569 when this documentary color or it's a 300 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,250 standard response from the Muslims 301 00:10:47,569 --> 00:10:51,079 you'll get some Muslims on social media 302 00:10:49,250 --> 00:10:53,060 who will call out which is really good 303 00:10:51,079 --> 00:10:54,350 and we need more of that but if you look 304 00:10:53,060 --> 00:10:56,300 at the Muslim institutions they were 305 00:10:54,350 --> 00:10:58,040 very apathetic in addressing these 306 00:10:56,300 --> 00:11:00,529 problems and young Muslims who are 307 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,990 looking to take some organized action to 308 00:11:00,529 --> 00:11:05,329 tackle racism to tackle Islamophobia to 309 00:11:02,990 --> 00:11:07,699 tackle even local issues of drug crime 310 00:11:05,329 --> 00:11:09,079 whatever unemployment they can't go to 311 00:11:07,699 --> 00:11:10,730 the institutions to address them so 312 00:11:09,079 --> 00:11:12,259 that's one part of the problem but the 313 00:11:10,730 --> 00:11:14,899 second part the problem is is that 314 00:11:12,259 --> 00:11:16,850 Muslims are facing an industry and 315 00:11:14,899 --> 00:11:18,680 Islamophobia industry that is working 316 00:11:16,850 --> 00:11:22,009 flat out from everything from 317 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:23,689 documentaries articles whatever is to 318 00:11:22,009 --> 00:11:25,519 say Muslims are a threat to our way of 319 00:11:23,689 --> 00:11:27,500 life and what's happening is is that 320 00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:29,329 that language is becoming more 321 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:31,610 mainstream and that 322 00:11:29,329 --> 00:11:33,439 what's very worrying diets we are always 323 00:11:31,610 --> 00:11:35,179 seen as the problem everything is our 324 00:11:33,439 --> 00:11:36,559 fault and it does spill over into a lot 325 00:11:35,179 --> 00:11:38,509 more violence look after Paris look 326 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,279 after Brussels you know it's things are 327 00:11:38,509 --> 00:11:42,379 getting worse and our government and 328 00:11:40,279 --> 00:11:44,179 Muslim institutions aren't helping the 329 00:11:42,379 --> 00:11:46,970 problem it's briefly and what do you 330 00:11:44,179 --> 00:11:48,920 expect as a consequence of the survey 331 00:11:46,970 --> 00:11:50,660 coming out for one thing and also what 332 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,850 would you expect from the younger 333 00:11:50,660 --> 00:11:55,249 Muslims to do in reaction to all this 334 00:11:52,850 --> 00:11:56,629 rising Islamophobia yeah well from this 335 00:11:55,249 --> 00:11:58,610 particular survey will be interesting 336 00:11:56,629 --> 00:12:00,350 because reality it's the story's kind of 337 00:11:58,610 --> 00:12:01,730 died a death but I mean it will raise 338 00:12:00,350 --> 00:12:04,249 more questions about how these surveys 339 00:12:01,730 --> 00:12:06,139 are conducted because people were quite 340 00:12:04,249 --> 00:12:08,179 angry that they only focused on 20 you 341 00:12:06,139 --> 00:12:10,610 know areas where Muslims made up twenty 342 00:12:08,179 --> 00:12:12,529 percent or more of the population in the 343 00:12:10,610 --> 00:12:14,269 constituency in the UK which is quite 344 00:12:12,529 --> 00:12:16,309 limited because Muslims are quite spread 345 00:12:14,269 --> 00:12:17,809 out across the country so it isn't very 346 00:12:16,309 --> 00:12:19,009 good in that sense I mean there will be 347 00:12:17,809 --> 00:12:21,790 questions asked about that there will be 348 00:12:19,009 --> 00:12:24,170 follow-on discussions you know talks etc 349 00:12:21,790 --> 00:12:26,089 but from the Muslim community's 350 00:12:24,170 --> 00:12:27,889 perspective and young Muslims I think 351 00:12:26,089 --> 00:12:29,749 for them it what's really annoying is is 352 00:12:27,889 --> 00:12:31,519 always being spoken about the other you 353 00:12:29,749 --> 00:12:34,220 know you talk to you know a young 20 354 00:12:31,519 --> 00:12:36,259 year old kid here for him he's British 355 00:12:34,220 --> 00:12:37,759 if this is his country he's not going 356 00:12:36,259 --> 00:12:39,529 anywhere else he lives here you know 357 00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:41,540 he's a Londoner you know wherever he 358 00:12:39,529 --> 00:12:43,759 lives this is his life but he's always 359 00:12:41,540 --> 00:12:44,720 being told no you're different and and 360 00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:46,639 this is the other thing that's very 361 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,949 important remember many of the younger 362 00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:51,679 Muslim generation their entire lives 363 00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:53,480 they've they've lived the war on terror 364 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,279 period that's all they've ever seen I 365 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,860 mean I was a young kid when 911 happened 366 00:12:55,279 --> 00:13:01,309 so I've had a life before nine eleven 367 00:12:57,860 --> 00:13:03,379 you know it's but the propaganda I guess 368 00:13:01,309 --> 00:13:05,689 was a really high up top so most these 369 00:13:03,379 --> 00:13:07,579 kids all they've ever been told is your 370 00:13:05,689 --> 00:13:09,079 evil you don't belong to your religion 371 00:13:07,579 --> 00:13:11,209 is bad and that has a real psychological 372 00:13:09,079 --> 00:13:12,829 impact and then to top it all off 373 00:13:11,209 --> 00:13:14,629 they're told you need to do more to 374 00:13:12,829 --> 00:13:16,970 integrate that's that's like the final 375 00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:18,499 slap is to say you don't belong but you 376 00:13:16,970 --> 00:13:19,730 need to do more to integrate and young 377 00:13:18,499 --> 00:13:22,189 since that just doesn't fly with them 378 00:13:19,730 --> 00:13:24,649 and they're angry and they are venting 379 00:13:22,189 --> 00:13:26,449 you know you see on social media but 380 00:13:24,649 --> 00:13:27,739 really the government if it says we're 381 00:13:26,449 --> 00:13:29,449 all in it together they to prove in 382 00:13:27,739 --> 00:13:31,069 right now their words and the actions 383 00:13:29,449 --> 00:13:32,959 say otherwise as you can see this 384 00:13:31,069 --> 00:13:34,579 subject is huge so we're gonna have to 385 00:13:32,959 --> 00:13:36,699 talk a bit more about it join us after 386 00:13:34,579 --> 00:13:36,699 the break 387 00:13:39,850 --> 00:13:45,020 welcome back on board the Sputnik um 388 00:13:42,380 --> 00:13:47,180 still with me Reza nadeem thank you very 389 00:13:45,020 --> 00:13:50,420 much for staying Rosa you mentioned the 390 00:13:47,180 --> 00:13:52,370 the youth dino young British Muslims who 391 00:13:50,420 --> 00:13:54,850 actually grew up in the context of the 392 00:13:52,370 --> 00:13:58,130 war on terror now marginalization 393 00:13:54,850 --> 00:14:00,890 feeling excluded coming from poor 394 00:13:58,130 --> 00:14:03,080 backgrounds isn't all this environment 395 00:14:00,890 --> 00:14:05,840 and atmosphere of Islamophobia actually 396 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,430 conducive to radicalization a couple of 397 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,720 things on this point you you're right 398 00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:10,370 that it's you know you've got this whole 399 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,350 generation their entire lives that's all 400 00:14:10,370 --> 00:14:14,240 they've heard you know 14 15 year-old 401 00:14:12,350 --> 00:14:15,650 all they've been told Islam is evil and 402 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,180 it does have an impact you know they 403 00:14:15,650 --> 00:14:18,860 just you know if they feel they don't 404 00:14:17,180 --> 00:14:21,170 they're not they don't belong to this 405 00:14:18,860 --> 00:14:22,280 country and if you talk to some of them 406 00:14:21,170 --> 00:14:23,420 you know some of the interviews that 407 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,370 I've been conducted with people that 408 00:14:23,420 --> 00:14:26,810 have joined Isis they were actually said 409 00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:28,400 part of the reason is that they've gone 410 00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:30,470 from here because I say well I'm not 411 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,850 wanted here and they want me there you 412 00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:33,290 know they respect me I'll be a king 413 00:14:31,850 --> 00:14:35,510 there you know they've been sold a false 414 00:14:33,290 --> 00:14:37,730 image of what Isis is you know and and 415 00:14:35,510 --> 00:14:39,230 they and they bought into that so it 416 00:14:37,730 --> 00:14:41,030 definitely plays a role but also with 417 00:14:39,230 --> 00:14:42,620 radicalization see the thing is with in 418 00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:44,720 the UK the conversation that the 419 00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:46,910 government has been leading on where I 420 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,339 declares a shin is so flawed because it 421 00:14:46,910 --> 00:14:51,710 assumes that there's a simple linear 422 00:14:49,339 --> 00:14:53,720 process as if everyone just follows the 423 00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:55,880 same path and become the radical and 424 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,680 this is very important because it leads 425 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,630 to all these massive repercussions so 426 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:02,120 the government's understanding or 427 00:14:59,630 --> 00:15:04,100 radicalization extremism is Islam is the 428 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,480 main factor you know you wake up one day 429 00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:07,070 read the Quran in the wrong way you're 430 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,690 going to start killing people and so 431 00:15:07,070 --> 00:15:10,070 what they've done is to prevent strategy 432 00:15:08,690 --> 00:15:11,630 and other strategies that the government 433 00:15:10,070 --> 00:15:13,970 has put in place to deal with extremism 434 00:15:11,630 --> 00:15:15,980 what they've done is is that they said 435 00:15:13,970 --> 00:15:18,230 what is it about your religion that 436 00:15:15,980 --> 00:15:20,260 turns you extreme so we've seen cases 437 00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:22,640 where you know I remember they were 438 00:15:20,260 --> 00:15:24,800 there's a local council in the UK that 439 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,480 she said if your child starts to study 440 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,070 too much that might be a sign of 441 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,900 radicalization if they're not studying 442 00:15:28,070 --> 00:15:32,000 enough that's a sign of radicalization 443 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:33,110 if their trousers are too high sign of 444 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,180 radicalization if they've got you know 445 00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:36,680 facial I thought if they got facial hair 446 00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:38,210 sign of radicalization look and look at 447 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,800 all those little teenagers when they 448 00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:41,420 puberty hits them you tell me they're 449 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,430 not going to have you know you know 450 00:15:41,420 --> 00:15:44,900 short trousers and facial head it 451 00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:46,220 happens is a part of life and it's 452 00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:48,200 you're talking about teenagers being 453 00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:50,240 teenagers and this is the repercussion 454 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,840 though so what happens is they say what 455 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,150 is it about 456 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,100 Islam that turns people radical and so 457 00:15:53,150 --> 00:15:57,230 they start targeting young Muslims and 458 00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:59,030 they feel and it leads to more isolation 459 00:15:57,230 --> 00:16:01,010 more alienation because it makes them 460 00:15:59,030 --> 00:16:03,320 say I can't even be Muslim in this 461 00:16:01,010 --> 00:16:05,030 country and what it does it confirms in 462 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,470 their mind that I'll never be accepted 463 00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:08,060 I'll never being equal her and they 464 00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:09,650 don't want me here and what happens it 465 00:16:08,060 --> 00:16:11,450 leads to a break of that contract 466 00:16:09,650 --> 00:16:12,950 between the citizen of the state that 467 00:16:11,450 --> 00:16:15,380 says this is my country this is my 468 00:16:12,950 --> 00:16:17,090 nation and when that contract is broken 469 00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:19,730 in a person's mind they don't have any 470 00:16:17,090 --> 00:16:21,890 you no sympathy or any it means nothing 471 00:16:19,730 --> 00:16:23,480 to than that relationship well then that 472 00:16:21,890 --> 00:16:24,980 paves the way for others to say well we 473 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,140 need to destroy these people that are 474 00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:29,300 against you that are against Islam and 475 00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:31,400 and taste for me I've always said it 476 00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:33,680 David Cameron and Theresa May are the 477 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,540 best recruiting sergeants the ISIS could 478 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,460 ask for because they do their job for 479 00:16:35,540 --> 00:16:39,410 them every word that comes out of their 480 00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:42,560 mouths about radicalization extremum 481 00:16:39,410 --> 00:16:44,300 just confirms what people like Isis are 482 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,800 saying which is as they hate you for 483 00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:47,330 everything you are that you Muslims will 484 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,770 never be accepted but there's a lack of 485 00:16:47,330 --> 00:16:50,630 common sense in a way because obviously 486 00:16:48,770 --> 00:16:52,850 the Muslim community in Britain's have 487 00:16:50,630 --> 00:16:55,430 well at the very least at least 60 years 488 00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:57,050 old so for the best part of 50 is it 489 00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:58,880 needs we didn't see any radicals coming 490 00:16:57,050 --> 00:17:01,250 out of it so is the government actually 491 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,660 asking questions they will hang on how 492 00:17:01,250 --> 00:17:04,310 come this phenomenon is actually quite 493 00:17:02,660 --> 00:17:06,320 recent and especially if you look at 494 00:17:04,310 --> 00:17:08,180 this sort of recent attacks across units 495 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:11,750 they've all been committed by homegrown 496 00:17:08,180 --> 00:17:14,180 terrorists I eat Muslims born and bred 497 00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:15,260 in France in Belgium in Britain there's 498 00:17:14,180 --> 00:17:16,370 a problem though to your line of 499 00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:17,870 questioning that is that you're using 500 00:17:16,370 --> 00:17:19,220 common sense and the government doesn't 501 00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:21,770 have not because when it comes to this 502 00:17:19,220 --> 00:17:23,690 stuff is is it's you're asking for what 503 00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:25,940 are the actual root causes of this 504 00:17:23,690 --> 00:17:27,320 problem that's a very adult conversation 505 00:17:25,940 --> 00:17:28,520 and the government's not having that 506 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,020 because if you were to have an adult 507 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,690 conversation what you start to realize 508 00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:35,000 is well actually the wars that we've 509 00:17:32,690 --> 00:17:37,970 waged in the Muslim world are propping 510 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,400 up of dictators that's had consequences 511 00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:42,560 you know you had a Obama saying that you 512 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,900 know Isis are direct outgrowth of 513 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,090 al-qaeda in Iraq that's because of our 514 00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:49,760 war that's why you should usually aim 515 00:17:47,090 --> 00:17:53,030 before you shoot yeah exactly and if 516 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:55,430 possible talk you know and and so so 517 00:17:53,030 --> 00:17:57,410 that you know these factors are never 518 00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:59,210 discussed and this is the other really 519 00:17:57,410 --> 00:18:01,760 annoying thing after is that whenever 520 00:17:59,210 --> 00:18:04,370 any Muslim spokesman or Muslim group or 521 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,930 individual says what can we talk 522 00:18:04,370 --> 00:18:07,850 all the wars you've waged that I've led 523 00:18:05,930 --> 00:18:10,700 to people you know social for example 524 00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:13,130 the the guy in woollett who murdered Lee 525 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,780 Rigby what do you say he said it's to do 526 00:18:13,130 --> 00:18:16,640 payback for what you've done to our 527 00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:19,040 people in our lands he's talking about 528 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,240 foreign policy and I companies even a 529 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,220 convent yeah but what's interesting 530 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,480 though is the government said out dare 531 00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:25,130 you people are legit you know they're 532 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,840 they're making excuses for terrorism 533 00:18:25,130 --> 00:18:28,160 saying no we're not I'm just saying the 534 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,960 guy who's literally been caught 535 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,660 red-handed it's saying this is the 536 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,340 reason can we talk about that reason and 537 00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:36,740 what happened to say are your terrorist 538 00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:38,630 sympathizer your non violent extremists 539 00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:40,010 and what happens is every young Muslim 540 00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:42,380 that sees that they say are here we go 541 00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:43,940 again it's that same propaganda and they 542 00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:45,320 say dis government just isn't interested 543 00:18:43,940 --> 00:18:46,429 I just cannot stress enough because I'm 544 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,929 talking from all the time on social 545 00:18:46,429 --> 00:18:49,640 media with the work we do in the 546 00:18:47,929 --> 00:18:51,530 community and they just say that you 547 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,240 know Rosa you want me you know you know 548 00:18:51,530 --> 00:18:55,340 how I don't even feel part of this 549 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,230 country and that's not their fault 550 00:18:55,340 --> 00:18:58,670 that's the government those that people 551 00:18:57,230 --> 00:19:00,830 in power who are supposed to have some 552 00:18:58,670 --> 00:19:02,210 responsibility with their words they 553 00:19:00,830 --> 00:19:04,790 don't take any responsibility and they 554 00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:07,610 push these young Muslims away so kids go 555 00:19:04,790 --> 00:19:09,170 to school obviously they're their victim 556 00:19:07,610 --> 00:19:12,110 many of them have been victim of the 557 00:19:09,170 --> 00:19:14,090 prevent strategy and how do you see the 558 00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:16,070 school evolving that are Muslim schools 559 00:19:14,090 --> 00:19:17,929 a good idea is it the right place to 560 00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:21,170 actually educate him on the very basic 561 00:19:17,929 --> 00:19:23,450 tenants of Islam and how to be well law 562 00:19:21,170 --> 00:19:25,340 abiding citizens or or is the solution 563 00:19:23,450 --> 00:19:26,840 elsewhere well thing is for me when it 564 00:19:25,340 --> 00:19:28,880 comes to you know religious schools etc 565 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,840 again that's a polarizing debate you 566 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,970 know some people think we should have 567 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,100 none at all for me the view is that if 568 00:19:31,970 --> 00:19:36,050 people want to have that space to do you 569 00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:37,970 know within their community if they want 570 00:19:36,050 --> 00:19:39,800 to you know teach people within a Muslim 571 00:19:37,970 --> 00:19:41,510 environment or Jewish environment or 572 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,340 Christian whatever that's up to them 573 00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:45,290 should have that freedom but I think 574 00:19:43,340 --> 00:19:47,300 what I don't like is again that focus on 575 00:19:45,290 --> 00:19:49,400 your Muslim only school and that is 576 00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:50,540 again what gets a lot of Muslims angry 577 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,520 sin that's how long you've got other 578 00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:55,040 school so recently had a story about a 579 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,000 school in North London where the faces 580 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,250 of women were scratched off the 581 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,500 textbooks because the and there are very 582 00:19:58,250 --> 00:20:01,730 ultra-orthodox Jews and you know they 583 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:04,070 weren't even talking in English all the 584 00:20:01,730 --> 00:20:06,080 lessons work you know you know when it 585 00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:08,270 weren't in English etc but in a less 586 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,830 very pernicious in he's investigating 587 00:20:08,270 --> 00:20:11,660 but the government only want to talk 588 00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:13,970 about Trojan horse scandal in Birmingham 589 00:20:11,660 --> 00:20:15,620 which some MPs found was actually not 590 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:17,720 such a case itself and so for many 591 00:20:15,620 --> 00:20:20,180 Muslims it's what RIA noise 592 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,400 is that it's these are genuine issues 593 00:20:20,180 --> 00:20:24,140 you know let's talk about you know the 594 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,520 role of women in society let's talk 595 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:28,040 about this let's talk about all these 596 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,750 shoes let's talk about schools but the 597 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,520 government you don't care about these 598 00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:33,140 issues because time and time again you 599 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,360 have shown that you're not consistent on 600 00:20:33,140 --> 00:20:36,920 your outrage on these topics but 601 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,900 secondly all you do is a unique 602 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,550 everything back to extremism and it's 603 00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:42,560 very frustrating for young loss in there 604 00:20:40,550 --> 00:20:45,470 not everything is doing to extremism you 605 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,610 know it's the end if you talk to 606 00:20:45,470 --> 00:20:48,170 academics you have been talking to 607 00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:50,840 people like Professor David Miller from 608 00:20:48,170 --> 00:20:52,400 university of bath dr. Rizwan sabir you 609 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,500 know who's based a little pool John 610 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,390 Moores these are great academics who 611 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:58,670 have time and time again shown that 612 00:20:56,390 --> 00:21:01,100 there is no proof that actually religion 613 00:20:58,670 --> 00:21:02,810 is the factor it may be a secondary 614 00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:05,960 factor that's cool but the main factor 615 00:21:02,810 --> 00:21:07,160 is that not that marginalization the 616 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,480 unethical foreign policy but the 617 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,160 government just doesn't want to discuss 618 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,390 and even now they've got this new 619 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,150 community forum where they've pumped 620 00:21:11,390 --> 00:21:15,560 five million pounds into it and all the 621 00:21:14,150 --> 00:21:17,330 people they've gone they're just yes men 622 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,770 and they'll say you know yeah you're 623 00:21:17,330 --> 00:21:20,390 right it's all last mate can I some more 624 00:21:18,770 --> 00:21:22,190 money and so what happens is young 625 00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:23,660 Muslims say a half this organizations 626 00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:25,760 they don't recognize because they've 627 00:21:23,660 --> 00:21:27,350 never ever worked in the community but 628 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,240 then it but also like you're not being 629 00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:31,790 genuinely there you just want the funds 630 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,490 and it's the whole thing it's leading to 631 00:21:31,790 --> 00:21:36,500 and you can see it yeah the bash Muslim 632 00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:38,330 for it does it it's generally good 633 00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:40,670 Trevor Phillips discovered that a while 634 00:21:38,330 --> 00:21:42,380 ago yeah and he discussed it as well by 635 00:21:40,670 --> 00:21:44,300 the way schools in a documentary and 636 00:21:42,380 --> 00:21:45,650 obviously he was against the religious 637 00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:48,020 schools I just want to turn to the 638 00:21:45,650 --> 00:21:50,030 social media because there was a great 639 00:21:48,020 --> 00:21:52,820 response to the documentary actually of 640 00:21:50,030 --> 00:21:55,550 people using the hashtag what British 641 00:21:52,820 --> 00:21:57,440 Muslims really think and Luke Holland 642 00:21:55,550 --> 00:22:00,380 says well I agree with Trevor Phillips 643 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,390 at this time for schools for our schools 644 00:22:00,380 --> 00:22:07,580 to integrate and let's start with Ethan 645 00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:10,610 and Harrow and to stick to that point 646 00:22:07,580 --> 00:22:13,100 Dennis Fernando says so here we go about 647 00:22:10,610 --> 00:22:14,660 Muslims not integrating I have had more 648 00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:17,930 Muslims in my life than I have had 649 00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:19,610 Etonians yeah and talking a miter gauge 650 00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:21,050 exactly and but yet again that see that 651 00:22:19,610 --> 00:22:22,700 Etonian argument because what they do 652 00:22:21,050 --> 00:22:24,590 they talk about there's these selective 653 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:26,060 environments where is just a small group 654 00:22:24,590 --> 00:22:27,980 and within a community within a 655 00:22:26,060 --> 00:22:29,810 community nation within a nation all 656 00:22:27,980 --> 00:22:31,130 about eaten less can we talk about the 657 00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:31,430 bullying did a lot as well you know what 658 00:22:31,130 --> 00:22:33,530 they 659 00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:35,390 up to and that's the thing for Muslims 660 00:22:33,530 --> 00:22:37,250 days and the consequences the cornice 661 00:22:35,390 --> 00:22:38,990 exactly and helping their mates move up 662 00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:41,510 the ladder that nepotism that they 663 00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:42,770 existed but we just it for many Muslims 664 00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:43,910 especially young Muslims you mean 665 00:22:42,770 --> 00:22:45,680 they're seeing it social media has been 666 00:22:43,910 --> 00:22:46,970 a game-changer it's allowed you access 667 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,650 to information that you won't have 668 00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:50,090 before you know before it was if you 669 00:22:48,650 --> 00:22:51,740 didn't see on mainstream media you 670 00:22:50,090 --> 00:22:53,420 didn't know about it but actual on the 671 00:22:51,740 --> 00:22:55,730 point of social media isn't it's sort of 672 00:22:53,420 --> 00:22:57,200 channeling all our energies within a 673 00:22:55,730 --> 00:22:59,150 sort of safe space we're in the living 674 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,800 room typing away and actually not being 675 00:22:59,150 --> 00:23:02,750 active enough not actually writing 676 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,610 letters not perhaps protesting 677 00:23:02,750 --> 00:23:06,680 sufficiently because there is genuine 678 00:23:04,610 --> 00:23:08,660 frustration in all communities not just 679 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,520 Muslim communities although the other 680 00:23:08,660 --> 00:23:12,230 ones who is viewing all this nepotism 681 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,690 and is seeing that there's nothing that 682 00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:16,580 is being done so its social media in 683 00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:18,290 this context actually a bit of a problem 684 00:23:16,580 --> 00:23:19,610 it is true you know what you say that 685 00:23:18,290 --> 00:23:21,260 because it is a bit of a blessing in a 686 00:23:19,610 --> 00:23:22,760 bit of a curse it's a blessing in the 687 00:23:21,260 --> 00:23:24,830 sense that the access to information is 688 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,120 unprecedented in human history knowing 689 00:23:24,830 --> 00:23:28,010 what's happening right around the world 690 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,570 so you know what happened to the ring 691 00:23:28,010 --> 00:23:31,700 gear Muslims a couple of years ago 692 00:23:29,570 --> 00:23:33,340 everyone knew about you know when it 693 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:35,180 happened Israel was bombing Palestine 694 00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:37,370 mainstream II didn't cover it but 695 00:23:35,180 --> 00:23:38,990 Facebook and Twitter did and you and you 696 00:23:37,370 --> 00:23:40,670 saw it and you couldn't run away from 697 00:23:38,990 --> 00:23:41,660 what's happening but until but see 698 00:23:40,670 --> 00:23:44,060 that's the things that's the blessing 699 00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:47,780 element the curse element of it seems to 700 00:23:44,060 --> 00:23:50,570 be that it's the sum total of activism 701 00:23:47,780 --> 00:23:52,580 in some people's cases alike or a tweet 702 00:23:50,570 --> 00:23:54,350 or gear hashtag trending now that has 703 00:23:52,580 --> 00:23:55,820 its role don't get me wrong and it's 704 00:23:54,350 --> 00:23:57,590 right to actually because it helps you 705 00:23:55,820 --> 00:23:59,900 to take on you know state propaganda 706 00:23:57,590 --> 00:24:02,060 forget the past exactly get the pulse 707 00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:03,740 but at the same time you needs to be 708 00:24:02,060 --> 00:24:05,360 both which is the underground stuff 709 00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:07,160 nothing really beats a face-to-face 710 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:08,870 conversation organizing on the ground 711 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,190 holding people to account so look at 712 00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:12,710 what David Cameron about the Panama 713 00:24:10,190 --> 00:24:14,360 papers it's you know in Iceland people 714 00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:17,450 are still out on the streets protesting 715 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:19,390 about what happened in yeah and their 716 00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:21,620 prime minister had the decency to resign 717 00:24:19,390 --> 00:24:23,030 see that's the thing but it's the ten 718 00:24:21,620 --> 00:24:26,030 percent of the population went out 719 00:24:23,030 --> 00:24:27,740 whereas point 0.2% of a British 720 00:24:26,030 --> 00:24:29,360 population out of the street is a very 721 00:24:27,740 --> 00:24:31,520 British thing which is sometimes it's we 722 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:32,870 do kind of complain from our from we 723 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,820 know from our sitting rooms and living 724 00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:37,310 rooms I look at France look how it when 725 00:24:34,820 --> 00:24:39,650 they protest they properly protest and I 726 00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:42,320 think Britain has only seen this proper 727 00:24:39,650 --> 00:24:43,790 maths demo obviously in the run-up of 728 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,020 the Iraq war and two million people 729 00:24:43,790 --> 00:24:49,250 march but then 730 00:24:45,020 --> 00:24:51,320 it is a disappointment because obviously 731 00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:52,940 Tony Blair ambush went into Iraq and so 732 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,230 maybe the you know the people think but 733 00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:56,180 see there is a change coming in the 734 00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:58,040 sense that it's social media does lead 735 00:24:56,180 --> 00:24:59,200 to more people being made aware and has 736 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,090 it two more people joining organizations 737 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,890 joining protests and marches etc so we 738 00:25:02,090 --> 00:25:05,780 are seeing change it is a bit too slow 739 00:25:03,890 --> 00:25:07,220 for my liking but there are groups like 740 00:25:05,780 --> 00:25:08,930 unpack and others that are working on 741 00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:11,000 this issue saying that look guys let's 742 00:25:08,930 --> 00:25:13,100 turn this anger that we have and this 743 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,260 awareness that we have into something 744 00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:17,720 greater and sure on the ground world 745 00:25:15,260 --> 00:25:20,090 because that is so powerful and we are 746 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,010 seeing happen and as I am I'm hopeful or 747 00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:23,090 where it's taking us and and yeah it's 748 00:25:22,010 --> 00:25:24,530 true it's been a game changer the 749 00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:26,390 government can't come back from that now 750 00:25:24,530 --> 00:25:28,850 thank you very much whether you've been 751 00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:30,950 a great guest that's all we've got time 752 00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:32,630 for this week aboard the Sputnik with me 753 00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:34,700 have Saqqara Mustafa standing in for 754 00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:36,680 George Galloway don't forget to stay in 755 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:38,870 touch with us on twitter at RT 756 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,720 underscore Sputnik or on Facebook at 757 00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:44,770 sputnik on Russia today until next week 758 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,770 it's been marvelous