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[Music]

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okay three I

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me hakara Mustafa standing in for

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George Galloway and me gatri Australia's

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offshore detention regime long condemned

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by critics for its unbending punitive

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action yet lorded by the country's

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lawmakers as the key factor in stopping

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the migrants is facing unprecedented

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pressure just this week yet another

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Asylum Seeker died died when he set

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himself Al light after being held for

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over 3 years on the facility his death

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comes after a series of suicides and

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acts of self harm involving several

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hundreds of men and women detained on

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the

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island the situation has become so

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disturbing for human rights Advocates

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that the Papa New Guinea Supreme Court

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ruled last week that the Detention of

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the men on Manus is unconstitutional and

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illegal and ordered the closure of the

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Detention Center

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the PNG government has said it would

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shut the center and has asked the

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Australian government to find

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alternative arrangements for the men

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detained there but the Australian

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government has said the detainees are

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the responsibility of the PNG this

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political limbo which mirrors the

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uncertainty in which these Asylum

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Seekers are left in for several months

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and often years means human rights

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groups are finally looking to take the

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government of Australia to task Amnesty

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International has been one of the

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facility's most vocal critics and we're

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happy to have with us today Kate shuty

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AI South Pacific expert to help us

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understand this little known Island in

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which so many abuses are currently

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taking place KY welcome on board the

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Sputnik now Katie um it's very difficult

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to understand the legal framework once

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again in which these uh facilities

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operate so who runs them because it

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seems to be everyone is sort of throwing

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back at each other is it the Papa New

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Guinea government or is it the

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Australian government

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well what we're seeing is the Australian

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government play the blame game but the

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reality is on the ground no one is under

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the illusion that that they're not in

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control of running these centers so we

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have one Center in uh papan guini on

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Manis Island and we have another one in

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Naru they are of course operating these

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centers with the cooperation of those

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governments and those governments share

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some responsibility for those centers

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and the human rights abuses that have

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happened there and that's exactly what

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Pap Guin Supreme Court found last week

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can it Force Australia to act well they

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have said that the center should be

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closed and the PNG government should be

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working with the Australian government

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what we do know from Australian Senate

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inquiries in their Parliament is that

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they are bankrolling these court cases

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to defend these legal centers they are

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the ones making the day-to-day call

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calls on running the center um the court

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case also said they're the ones erecting

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the fences they're the ones employing

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the contractors they're the ones making

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all of these arrangements so I don't

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think Australia can Sher its responsibil

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ities by saying it's entirely up to Pap

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guini or Naru that is not the case at

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all um primarily they bear the brunt of

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this responsibility because they

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forcibly put people under guard onto

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planes and send them off to these small

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L countries or locations um against

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their will none of those detained on

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Papa guini asked to be there and many of

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those that I've spoken to had no idea

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where they were being sent at the time

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um that they were being bundled onto the

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plane and forcibly removed from

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Australia so these are immigrants mostly

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from the Middle East who arrive on the

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shores of Australia by boats and then

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they send them to either papon guini or

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NAU these are two separate sovereignties

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but Australia has got a deal with them

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to to to host them or to uh I mean to uh

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keep them in the centers and then settle

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them so what we do know is the the

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refugee and migrant situation in

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Australia is very different to what's

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happening in the Mediterranean now

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around 90% of those arriving by boat in

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Australia because such an arious journey

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to get there um are actually found to be

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refugees most of them are getting on to

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boats from Indonesia or flying through

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Malaysia and then to Indonesia um and

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then hopping on a boat to get to

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Christmas Island which is very close to

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Indonesia and is an island far off

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Australia's western Australian Coastline

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um once they get there the first thing

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that the Australian government is doing

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is very promptly sending them on planes

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to Pap guini and Naru and they've had

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this policy yeah automatic since 3 years

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ago they were doing um medical screening

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but they weren't telling these people

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what the outcomes of those medical tests

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were very few few people were stopped

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from being transferred on the basis of

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medical grounds of course um and what

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we've seen as an outcome of this is that

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um the extraordinary pressure the

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psychological trauma that these people

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are suffering um we've seen on manace

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that um there was violence in February

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uh

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2014 locals actually attacked the center

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and killed someone who was convicted um

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actually two Pap guineans were convicted

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of that person's murder just in the last

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few weeks and in the last week we've had

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another person die on Naro um because

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they've set themselves on fire and the

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Australian government is continuing to

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Sher their responsibility to the those

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people um that they're sending to these

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irland countries to be detained to be

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punished to be deterred from ever

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thinking that they might get to

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Australia and seek a better life but the

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stories are coming out as you say

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harrowing I mean people who have

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swallowed razor blades there have been

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cases of mass rape and child abuse as

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well is the is Australian public opinion

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aware of what is being done almost in

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its name given that the their elected

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officials are actually greenlighting

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these operations I mean I think the

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Australian um modus operandi with these

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centers is out ofsight out of mind

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they're hoping that these stories don't

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come to light in the public because it

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does put extraordinary pressure on the

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government um but we've seen a complete

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turnaround in terms of the campaigning

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on this issue in Australia especially

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since um February when um a number of

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babies 37 of them who many of whom have

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been born in Australian hospitals um

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they lost the court case to stay in

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Australia but there was a massive um

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public campaign to try and keep them

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there and eventually we saw the minister

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of immigration concede that they

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wouldn't be sending them back um you

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know what we have to understand is these

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people are often coming from situations

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of torture or trauma before they arrived

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in Australia um as refugees they have

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very particular psychological and

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psychosocial needs um there are not

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permanent um psychiatric care facilities

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in the whole of Papa Guinea much less on

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Manis Island which is very remote same

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with Naro um you know Mental Health Care

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is very limited in that environment and

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the extraordinary pressure of having

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your life put on hold for 3 years and

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not being able to rebuild it that's

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extraordinary and when you talk to the

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people who were there on Manis Island as

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I've done um you know they feel this

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mental anguish over the fact that their

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families are still in highrisk

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situations in Afghanistan in Pakistan in

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Syria sometimes and they cannot even

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contact their families I understand many

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of these refugees are actually no

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educated and they were very skilled

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highly skilled and there they're treated

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as prisoners is it Australia's going

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Toano Bay I mean some people have made

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that reference I mean I think what we

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have to remember when we make that

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reference is these people haven't

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committed any crime they're not being

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accused of terrorism related offenses

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all they have done is come to Australian

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Shores seeking protection of the

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Australian government under the refugee

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convention they don't have that

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opportunity to do that elsewhere in the

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region because there's not many

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countries that have signed the refugee

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convention

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and instead of treating them humanely

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and that is an option open to the

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Australian government still um this

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policy has designed to act as a

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deterrent um you know the slogans we

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hear is we want to save lives at Sea um

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but that's speculative you know um you

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can't deter people who are genuine

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refugees fleeing persecution from

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risking their lives and hopping on a

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boat um to try and find something better

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and and that's what sort of missed in

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this public debate is is there is no

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Humanity in the the current system and

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the way it's set up can they escape

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because I mean I'm I'm guessing given

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the conditions in which they're living

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they're probably thinking that maybe

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even returning to the war zones is

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probably better than and remaining in

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this situation can they actually leave

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if not obviously towards Australia but

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at least go back or try and find Refuge

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elsewhere yeah well what we found when

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we um visited Manis Island and talked to

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the people detained there as well as

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those running the center is that there

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was an extraordinary pressure on those

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people to return home including syrians

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who have been detained under these

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policies now the UN has said as a matter

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of course we know the massive Exodus of

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refugees going from Syria um these

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people are still locked up by the

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Australian government which is quite

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extraordinary so um you know you have

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this situation of the Australian

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government trying to say they're not

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actually refugees when they many of them

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are being found to be refugees those on

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Manis Island um it is a

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type facility on a an Pap guinean army

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base um there is extraordinary tensions

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with the locals if they were to leave

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that Center as we've seen with the

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violence um in Naru there are detention

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centers and we saw them throw open the

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doors of the detention centers late last

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year in an attempt to defeat a legal

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case in Australia very similar to the

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one just running Pap guini what that

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means is they have freedom to move

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around the island during the day

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but Naru when you think about it it's a

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small island 21 Square km so that's

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twice the size of heo airport um where

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are they going to go it's a singular

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Island are they allowed to work um they

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are but um until recently when the

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refugee Center was up and running 90%

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unemployment in in naaru so we're

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talking impoverished basic standard of

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living across the Pacific um you know

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00:10:56,680 --> 00:11:00,200
there is high levels of employment now

279
00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:01,959
because the massive influx of

280
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:05,040
contractors coming to the detention

281
00:11:01,959 --> 00:11:08,000
centers but there is no real economy for

282
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:10,760
Naru um and even in the last couple of

283
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,279
years there's been um suggestions that

284
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,399
the country is on the brink of

285
00:11:12,279 --> 00:11:17,160
bankruptcy it was entirely ad dependent

286
00:11:15,399 --> 00:11:20,399
exactly this is exactly the irony behind

287
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:22,720
it because Naru and papini only agreed

288
00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:26,200
on towards his detention centers because

289
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:28,560
Australia had compensation had a big a

290
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,760
compensation but there's not much of

291
00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:32,560
that

292
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:35,639
well I mean um there is money going into

293
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:38,720
development in Naru and papa Guinea and

294
00:11:35,639 --> 00:11:40,920
um in in this age of cutting foreign aid

295
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,519
um they've managed to survive without

296
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:46,320
with very little Cuts because um they've

297
00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:49,120
opted to um take on refugees on behalf

298
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:51,440
of Australia but that in and of itself

299
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,839
that they're willing to contract um

300
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:56,800
these camps and these cruel and

301
00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:58,639
torturous conditions that in of itself

302
00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,399
attracts liability for the governments

303
00:11:58,639 --> 00:12:04,000
of pap new guini and Naro and what we're

304
00:12:01,399 --> 00:12:06,200
seeing now after this court case is um

305
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:09,240
compensation claims are already being

306
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:11,240
filed in the papini court around 3 years

307
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,000
of unlawful detention one thing that's

308
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,639
very difficult to comprehend in this on

309
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,639
this side of the planet really is that

310
00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:18,760
how come Australia which is such a vast

311
00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:20,800
country which is very uh resource Rich

312
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,199
you know mining and everything fish you

313
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,519
know coasts why is does it have such

314
00:12:23,199 --> 00:12:26,600
stringent immigration laws it could

315
00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:28,600
accommodate it could be very

316
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,040
accommodating for for many immigrants

317
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:34,120
obviously not all but at least not be as

318
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:37,519
as as strict as it is essentially we are

319
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:40,040
a migrant Nation I mean we started by

320
00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:41,720
people coming to Australia it was a

321
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,120
settled country even though we don't

322
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,639
formally recognize that and I think

323
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:49,160
within the Australian identity there's a

324
00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:51,320
fundamental failure to recognize that is

325
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,480
where we come from that is who we are

326
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,440
and that is how we have built such a

327
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:58,440
strong Nation as we stand now what we've

328
00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,440
seen in recent years is is the

329
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:04,920
discussion has changed from being an

330
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:07,680
issue about um a wealthy and productive

331
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,880
um nation that includes diversity and

332
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:12,839
migrants and people coming from all

333
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,600
walks of life um that debate has shifted

334
00:13:12,839 --> 00:13:18,120
and you can see that in the changing of

335
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:20,839
the name of immigration to border

336
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,880
control and you know that's a shift in

337
00:13:20,839 --> 00:13:25,160
relation to the global Dynamics and the

338
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,600
discussions around terrorism versus

339
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:31,600
freedoms and you know how these people

340
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:34,079
are perceived um um for a very long time

341
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:36,639
um refugees and migrants I think has

342
00:13:34,079 --> 00:13:39,800
been a hot political issue in Australia

343
00:13:36,639 --> 00:13:42,600
so there's no easy um political or

344
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,480
policy sort of arguments um you know

345
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,760
there's no doubt that harsh policies

346
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:50,199
have been popular with voters in the

347
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:52,480
past um but what we need right now is

348
00:13:50,199 --> 00:13:54,639
strong leadership and the only humane

349
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,959
way forward is to let those people come

350
00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:59,959
to Australia we're talking just over

351
00:13:56,959 --> 00:14:02,839
2,000 people now in terms of those on

352
00:13:59,959 --> 00:14:05,040
Manis Island and those in Nao and to say

353
00:14:02,839 --> 00:14:08,120
we can't accept that when we have a

354
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:10,959
humanitarian intake of over 13,000

355
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:13,079
refugees a year of course we can manage

356
00:14:10,959 --> 00:14:14,959
that Kate thank you very much that's a

357
00:14:13,079 --> 00:14:18,079
really interesting subject thank you

358
00:14:14,959 --> 00:14:20,320
thank you coming up next yet another

359
00:14:18,079 --> 00:14:22,759
British institution goes bust leaving

360
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:25,120
thousands of workers pensions in limbo

361
00:14:22,759 --> 00:14:25,120
stay

362
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:32,480
tuned welcome back to Sputnik one of

363
00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:34,320
Britain's Best Loved High Street stores

364
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,600
has announced it was filing for

365
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,160
bankruptcy British home stores better

366
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,399
known as BHS had suffered previous

367
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,320
periods of uncertainty until a certain

368
00:14:41,399 --> 00:14:45,480
Philip green bought the chain for

369
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:48,399
reported 200 million in

370
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:50,480
200000 at first the flamboyant Tycoon

371
00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:52,680
appeared to bring the alien stores back

372
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,240
in the black but last year it was

373
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,959
announced that BHS was struggling and

374
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,759
green sold it to a Consortium with no

375
00:14:57,959 --> 00:15:02,360
retail experience called retail

376
00:14:59,759 --> 00:15:05,160
acquisition

377
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,000
for1 in the wake of the collapse green

378
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:10,320
who was kned for services to the

379
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:12,560
business community in 2006 has come in

380
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,480
for intense criticism for selling the

381
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:17,199
business when its defined benefit

382
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,440
pension scheme was running a substantial

383
00:15:17,199 --> 00:15:21,440
deficit and for the fact that his family

384
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,079
received more than 400 million of

385
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,800
dividends from the businesses in the

386
00:15:23,079 --> 00:15:28,519
years after the chain was bought this

387
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:31,680
week business secretary SJ Javid ordered

388
00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:33,839
the on solvency service to probe unique

389
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,959
circumstances of the collapse of the

390
00:15:33,839 --> 00:15:39,839
88-year-old retailer how can a business

391
00:15:36,959 --> 00:15:41,720
going so well collaps so rapidly how is

392
00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:44,199
it possible to sell a chain of stores

393
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,560
for a quid what future for the thousands

394
00:15:44,199 --> 00:15:48,920
of workers and more importantly what

395
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,839
happens to the pension fund who better

396
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:53,160
than a senior Financial reporter

397
00:15:50,839 --> 00:15:55,880
specializing in distressed debt and

398
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,720
leveraged Finance Hussein deiri to shed

399
00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,120
light on the situation Hussein welcome

400
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:02,639
to the show thank you for you follow

401
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,639
these situations very closely did you

402
00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:08,240
see the collapse of BHS actually coming

403
00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:11,399
well there were signs already of uh the

404
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:14,360
company becoming weaker from last year

405
00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:16,600
and that is why uh for example it was

406
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,000
sold for a token price of1 pound when

407
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,160
you sell a company for1 pound obviously

408
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:24,759
it doesn't vote well it shows that there

409
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:27,920
are some uh underlying issues but uh the

410
00:16:24,759 --> 00:16:30,240
company actually tried to uh address the

411
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:33,000
situation and as recently as last month

412
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,759
they went I mean in March end of March

413
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,240
they went through a company voluntary

414
00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:40,759
Arrangement or a

415
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:44,680
CVA uh in a court through which they

416
00:16:40,759 --> 00:16:47,199
renegotiated all their um rental

417
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:51,040
agreements uh obviously brought the

418
00:16:47,199 --> 00:16:52,639
rents uh significantly down as well as

419
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,360
the and also they were given the

420
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:57,920
opportunity to cancel some of those

421
00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:01,639
rental agreements and on top of that

422
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:05,559
they were uh given the possibility to uh

423
00:17:01,639 --> 00:17:09,760
impose a 94% haircut by that I mean a

424
00:17:05,559 --> 00:17:12,160
reduction of already realized uh rent

425
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,880
liabilities so uh their landlords

426
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,720
basically gave them a discount for what

427
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:20,000
was due up until that point so at that

428
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:23,400
point people thought that thanks to the

429
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,679
CVA they had managed to negotiate that

430
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:29,120
difficult situation and come out of it

431
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:30,799
but then again only about a month later

432
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:33,039
they had to file and it shows that

433
00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:34,640
basically the CV was not enough to

434
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:36,679
address the situation but one thing

435
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,280
that's sort of almost should have raised

436
00:17:36,679 --> 00:17:40,160
alarm Bells is the fact that the

437
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,280
Consortium that bought it for a nominal

438
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,400
fee didn't have that much expertise in

439
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,200
the retail sector so if you're actually

440
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,320
going to save a business which

441
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,840
specializes in retail surely you'd

442
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,520
address it or you'd sell it to somebody

443
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,559
who knows who's good in the business and

444
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:56,320
who could therefore rectify the previous

445
00:17:53,559 --> 00:17:58,880
F so shouldn't that have been a a sign

446
00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,200
from a seller's point of view that is

447
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,280
not necessarily an issue because I mean

448
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:07,400
uh What mattered I guess for the

449
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,960
previous owners was to basically free

450
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,360
themselves from the liabilities quite

451
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,520
enormous liabilities that uh were

452
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:16,640
attached to this business and the fact

453
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:19,159
that the there was someone who stepped

454
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,200
forward and expressed willingness to

455
00:18:19,159 --> 00:18:23,520
take the business together with its

456
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:26,000
liabilities I mean that should be good

457
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,320
enough for a seller now you that is a

458
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,159
question that I guess should be

459
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:32,760
addressed to people who have invested in

460
00:18:30,159 --> 00:18:34,840
that vehicle which took over the company

461
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:37,440
and for the moment as far as I know

462
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,880
there hasn't been an explanation to that

463
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,600
I appreciate that for a straightforward

464
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,400
sale you know there doesn't need to be

465
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:45,760
any investigation really strictly into

466
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:48,840
who the purchaser is but there is a

467
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,760
pension F fund involved in this major

468
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,039
transaction so surely perhaps the

469
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,039
pension Regulators should have seen or

470
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:56,720
looked into who the purchaser was and

471
00:18:55,039 --> 00:18:59,039
therefore whether they could be able to

472
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:01,440
address the issue should the business go

473
00:18:59,039 --> 00:19:03,240
down as it has that's true but there are

474
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,080
two points to consider here first of all

475
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,640
the pension scheme was already in

476
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:12,760
deficit before the

477
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:15,000
2015 uh sales transaction happened so

478
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:19,039
it's not like it was completely healthy

479
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:23,679
beforehand secondly um for the pension

480
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:27,480
regulator to step in and block a uh

481
00:19:23,679 --> 00:19:30,679
transaction or app against it they need

482
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:33,080
to have really strong reason reasons cuz

483
00:19:30,679 --> 00:19:35,880
remember that by doing that they are

484
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:38,600
actually can opposing a transaction

485
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:41,080
between two willing parties so uh they

486
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,440
really need to have very strong evidence

487
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:46,679
that this is going to fall through which

488
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:49,600
I guess at the time was not clear and

489
00:19:46,679 --> 00:19:51,840
even a few months ago it wasn't clear

490
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,600
that the situation could be as drastic

491
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,600
as it is now where we have a pension

492
00:19:54,600 --> 00:20:01,240
deficit which could According to some

493
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:05,080
estimate arise to round 571 million

494
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:08,640
behind all this stands a man sir Philip

495
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:11,200
green who um is willing to be questioned

496
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,360
uh about uh all the what what has

497
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,440
happened but we all know it's actually

498
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:18,640
the woman behind it yeah Mrs Green so

499
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:22,320
can you tell us a bit about that well

500
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:25,400
basically this uh the BHS uh as long as

501
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:29,480
it was it belonged to Sir Philip green

502
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:31,760
and uh um it was part of bigger group

503
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:36,600
which also the Arcadia Group which owns

504
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:38,679
dor Peres um and several other

505
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:43,720
well-known retail uh High Street

506
00:20:38,679 --> 00:20:48,760
retailers so um and it's true that uh

507
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:51,559
the man director of that uh larger group

508
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:53,480
was with with the wife of Sir Philip

509
00:20:51,559 --> 00:20:55,240
green we are not talking about any

510
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,280
crimes or anything like that at the

511
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,640
moment what power do the MPS and this

512
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,480
pran actually have on on green we have a

513
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,880
suspicion perhaps is this public opinion

514
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:06,159
that there is something slightly immoral

515
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,200
that's going on but definitely not

516
00:21:06,159 --> 00:21:10,360
illegal but what is the worst case

517
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,799
scenario for Philip green do the MPS

518
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,000
probing him do they have any form of

519
00:21:11,799 --> 00:21:17,000
pressure other than just perhaps

520
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:20,000
removing the sir from his first well

521
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:23,440
firstly um from what I hear sir Philip

522
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,919
green has said that he might be willing

523
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:28,120
to contribute to the pension deficit

524
00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:31,080
pool which shows that there is an

525
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:35,159
element I mean there is a connection

526
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:37,200
maybe felt at least uh between the

527
00:21:35,159 --> 00:21:39,279
actions of the previous management with

528
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,799
the current situation and that is of

529
00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:44,880
course uh something that could be

530
00:21:41,799 --> 00:21:47,520
plausible given that during the 15 years

531
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:51,000
prior to the sales transaction around

532
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:55,960
580 million pound were taken out of this

533
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:59,080
company uh under different forms uh

534
00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:03,320
whether dividend be it um

535
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:05,200
loans be um rental payments because some

536
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,480
of those properties were owned by

537
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,679
shareholders of the uh former

538
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:13,400
shareholders of the company

539
00:22:09,679 --> 00:22:16,720
so and I heard figures around uh up to

540
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:19,200
80 million pounds that uh the former

541
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:22,320
owners may be willing to chip in but

542
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:25,200
then there are also reports about uh the

543
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:28,640
per pension protection fund uh looking

544
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:31,159
to pursue this case for obtaining up to

545
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,360
around2 200 million pound in uh and they

546
00:22:31,159 --> 00:22:36,960
have means of pressuring him to do that

547
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:39,360
uh well it's not as uh I can't really

548
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,880
say what the mechanism would be but

549
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:45,120
there is definitely once the government

550
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,960
investigation uh because bear in mind

551
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:49,440
that this investigation will be carried

552
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,919
out very rapidly normally you have to

553
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,640
wait three months for the administrators

554
00:22:50,919 --> 00:22:54,960
to come up with the report but here uh

555
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,400
Mr Javid has said that they will not

556
00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:00,919
wait for that so it clearly shows that

557
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:03,200
there is a will from the government side

558
00:23:00,919 --> 00:23:05,039
okay to look at into this closely and

559
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:08,120
they have said they will leave no Stones

560
00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:11,240
unturned in terms of misconduct by

561
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:14,279
current or former managers so clearly

562
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:17,720
there is a path but then I guess because

563
00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:19,440
as we discuss we it's not really it

564
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,440
can't really be said that something

565
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,520
illegal has happened here although the

566
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,679
situation may look controversial because

567
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,080
jobs and pensions are involved of course

568
00:23:25,679 --> 00:23:30,640
uh I think at the end it's difficult to

569
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:34,360
give a you know clear answer about the

570
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:36,559
mechanisms by which some money can be uh

571
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,960
received from former owners I'm afraid

572
00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:40,960
we'll have to leave it there thank you

573
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,960
very much for saying was a

574
00:23:42,159 --> 00:23:46,720
pleasure so we've heard from our experts

575
00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:49,600
so now let's see what the Twitter sphere

576
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,880
has to say go on g what's going on well

577
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,320
um about the first topic on the miners

578
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,240
Island uh Australia's Guantanamo Bay

579
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,679
which I must be honest came as a shock

580
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,559
news to me uh we asked what should

581
00:23:58,679 --> 00:24:03,640
happen to the men and women actually

582
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:05,840
held at Manis Island Detention Center

583
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,000
Marilyn Shephard says freedom and

584
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,840
protection and massive

585
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,600
compensation and Daddy Cool says

586
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,080
Australia is an immigrant white

587
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:17,640
supremacist State like the USA and

588
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,520
Israel the men need to be questioned

589
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:23,200
humanly in Australia it has to be I mean

590
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,440
the conditions are absolutely abominable

591
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,159
and there's very little coverage here in

592
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,000
the west obviously but even in Australia

593
00:24:27,159 --> 00:24:31,440
there seems to be abs AB lack of

594
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,240
knowledge of the situation what is going

595
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,880
on I know they managed to really make it

596
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,159
make this whole Refugee thing into a

597
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,120
success story that no boat has arrived

598
00:24:38,159 --> 00:24:42,120
in Australia and no one knows about what

599
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:43,559
happens to those refugees actually

600
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:45,880
exactly and actually it affects only

601
00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:47,880
2,000 people which could be really

602
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,480
easily settled in Australia it's

603
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:55,399
disgraceful it's disgraceful uh and

604
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:57,760
about BHS Uh Kevin Maguire says BHS

605
00:24:55,399 --> 00:25:00,480
Tycoon Philip green has agreed to be

606
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,520
grilled by MP's on business committee

607
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,279
but he does not want his billionaire

608
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:08,039
wife Tina to be questioned and Alexander

609
00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:10,600
necrosoft says if anyone thinks Philip

610
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:12,840
green will be held responsible for BHS

611
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:16,120
collapse well they might as well think

612
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,200
that taxpayers money is spent wisely

613
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:19,960
well it's interesting that he doesn't

614
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,720
want his wife to appear I mean what else

615
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,080
doesn't he want to do does he get to

616
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,520
pick and choose what he has to what he

617
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:29,240
presents and that's all the tweets for

618
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:31,919
today which brings us to to the end of

619
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,840
the show with me hakara Mustafa and me

620
00:25:31,919 --> 00:25:36,399
gri but you can stay in touch with us

621
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,039
through Twitter at rtor Sputnik or on

622
00:25:36,399 --> 00:25:42,180
Facebook Sputnik on Russia today until

623
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:45,390
next week it's been marvelous

624
00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:45,390
[Music]

625
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:56,559
[Music]