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okay

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sh I

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[Music]

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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once more With Me George Galloway and me

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gatri for me Saudi Arabia is the Heart

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of Darkness I've been there of course

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I've even had good relations with the

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former King Abdullah but it's ever more

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Sinister role in Iraq and Syria in Yemen

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and Lebanon and its secret and steadily

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deepening relationship with Netanyahu

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all serve whatever anyone thinks of it

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to keep the Saudis at the heart of all

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the big stories Saudi Arabia is the

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British State's best friend and a very

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good customer too but all is not well

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most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis

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and the US Congress is closing in on

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Saudi assets for what would be the

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biggest compensation deal in history the

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collapse in oil prices driven by the

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Saudis themselves to harm Iran Russia

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Russia and Venezuela has created crisis

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for the Saudis themselves it may or may

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not be a related fact that the regime is

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cutting off people's heads like there

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was no tomorrow and for the Royals there

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might not be making sense of it father

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Sputnik is Master analyst and writer

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David Hurst editor of Middle East eye

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David let's start if we may with the

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most explosive of all Revelations I put

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that quotation mark in because it is

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denied by the Saudis and we don't yet

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know the truth of it but the Panama

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leaks seem to indicate that Saudi Royal

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money $50 million of it was given to

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Benjamin Netanyahu for his election

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campaign in the last Israeli elections

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if true I can't think of anything more

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devastating to the uh reputation of

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Saudi Arabia in the Muslim world is it

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true I don't know uh but it is uh a

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really big claim and it has to be

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investigated it wouldn't surprise me if

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it were true because we've been writing

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stories I've been writing stories for

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quite some time about the deepening

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relationship between the Saudis and the

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Israelis and the trouble with the

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Israelis of course they boast of it um

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and they say we've got the best

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relations with the Arab meaning the

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Saudis the emiratis the Egyptians than

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they've had uh ever before uh and that's

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what they mean and it's a security

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relationship It's all under the table

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it's all done uh there's a there's a

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plane fueled up to go on benorian

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Airport every day either to Cairo or Via

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Jordan uh to to the Emirates and and

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there's a constant security traffic

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there's a it's intelligence traffic as

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well now these aren't strong foundations

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because it doesn't invol it's not a

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People to People relationship it's a

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government to government relationship

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but I'm absolutely certain it's there no

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of course uh political crises uh are

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only one side of it having themselves

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proactively driven down oil prices to uh

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very low levels below $30 a battel uh

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the Saudis are now themselves feeling

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the pinch asking for loans imagine on

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the international market cutting

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subsidies raising taxes and just this

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week uh they or the week before they

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sacked their oil Minister what is the

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current state of the Saudi economy they

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have got a fiscal buffer which will last

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them about 5 years it's

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big um however what everyone is

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concerned about is a rate of depletion

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and basically they shed the they they

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had a budget deficit uh they were their

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reserves fell by about a hundred billion

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uh last year if that keeps on going

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they've got five years left and what are

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they going to do about it well they've

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got this grand plan

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um and the sacking that you mentioned it

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actually took place on Saturday was one

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part of 51 Royal decrees all um

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initially in the name of uh the father

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uh uh Salman but actually written by the

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son the 30-year-old son he's more or

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less running the show Now isn't he he is

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running the show um and there's quite a

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lot of concern in Saudi Arabia and

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outside of how much power is is actually

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accured in his plant he's only the

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deputy

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uh Crown Prince there is a crown there

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is a Crown Prince and we're not hearing

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any he's someone else's son he's someone

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else's son Ben na he's vastly more

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experienced H initially when Salmon took

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over from Abdullah uh the country was

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divided into sort of two foms basically

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it was the bin Salon the favored younger

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son of Salon who would have the economic

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basically portfolio and Ben who would

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have the security Ben the security

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portfolio now all we hear the only

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person who talks about war in peace talk

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talks about the war in Yemen uh the the

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only person who talks about this Grand

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Vision they've got Vision 2030 is this

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30-year-old son and a lot of people are

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asking questions hang on a moment uh

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that's a lot for a 30-year-old just to

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take on just wondering how this um burst

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in the oil crisis prices have affected

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the people in Saudia itself is it

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already coming to their senses or are

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they still living feel the pain they are

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feeling the pain and and one of the

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problems is that the whole point of

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trying to reduce the budget deficit is

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an oldfashioned privatization and

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austerity campaign um and we know what

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happens to austerity here in Britain and

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in Europe and we know the trouble it

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causes imagine the trouble and austerity

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campaign would cause with such huge uh

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differences in wealth and 30% of uh of

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Youth being unemployed the Saudi youth

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that's the real time bomb in it's the

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demographic time bomb in Saudi Arabia

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and these huge disparities of wealth so

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one of the things that bin salon's

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trying to do is cut the water subsidy

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which is a big thing um and people are

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complaining about it all over there's a

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really interesting incident that

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happened to the bin Laden uh

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Construction Group which was sort of the

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Builder of choice for the Ala sa family

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for years and years and years it was the

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biggest construction company in the

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world uh a crane fell on the old mosque

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in uh in Mecca um killing 100 uh people

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more than 100 people the last Haj during

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the last Haj yes um and there was a huge

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political R about it all the executives

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of the bin Laden Group were stopped from

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going abroad and Bin and Bin Salman

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looked at the accounts and he went

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through all the accounts and he found um

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$1 trillion worth of projects that

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didn't have a contract to them and

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immediately froze the whole lot the

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result is that there was suddenly a huge

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debt they couldn't basically pay their

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wages for for 50,000 workers they

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stopped paying the wages not only did

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they stop paying the wages uh they

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actually told them all to leave the

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country so what the workers did they

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burnt the buses outside the outside the

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headquarters there's a big fuss there

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stories in the media stories in our in

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the Middle East eye and and and and

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everywhere else about it and now uh

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they've promised to pay about 10,000 of

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them but this is the typical sort of of

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the biggest Construction Company not

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just in Saudi Arabia in the world world

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is a typical boom to bus story no the

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regime has uh has an extent uh you might

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say structural problem with the Shiite

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minority in the Eastern province in the

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country they appear to be able to handle

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that just by force of numbers Force of

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Arms but if discontent were to spread

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amongst the others amongst the Sunni

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Bedrock of the regime that would be Curt

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for them and uh there might be a jet

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powering up in Riyad headed for uh for

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Tel Aviv rather than the other way

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around um How likely is that is there a

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big enough split in the Royal Family

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itself to see some kind of Pooch some

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kind of coup as one possible response to

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this well I think you got to choose your

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words carefully here because there could

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certainly be ructions I don't think

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there's yet enough material for uh a

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coup as you as you'd put it but it's

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also got to be said that when Salmon

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took over from Abdullah there was a sort

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of Palace coup he chucked out all of the

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advisers now that could happen again um

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and certainly um uh Ben knife's position

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could be under threat and certainly

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there are uh big internal ructions

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within the Royal Family itself now what

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you're talking about is some sort of

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insurrection uh popular Insurrection a

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sort of Arab Spring in in in Saudi

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Arabia and um uh I think they're worried

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about it and I think there's certainly

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the material there in in terms of youth

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unemployment and a country that is is is

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really living on borrowed time as far as

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uh um Democratic uh uh Uprising is

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concerned but who's to say when it's

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going to happen no in the past the

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regime could have counted on the

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bottomless support of the United States

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there are signs that that is changing uh

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particularly if Trump were to become the

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president ironically uh but the Congress

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now is moving to hold Saudi Arabia

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liable for the enormous loss of people

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and property I mean it would be the

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biggest uh compensation payout in

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history as uh as gatri said in the

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introduction the uh likelihood of that

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passing and not being vetoed and so on

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we could argue about but it's a sign

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isn't it that the United States is

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losing patience with the Saudi regime

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yeah I think something fundamental has

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happened with the United States and I

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don't just think it's about Obama I

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think it would affect the next president

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as well there is a weariness about the

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Middle

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East entirely caused by their own

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interventions of course uh no one's

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innocent in this and there is a complete

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poity of intellectual ideas or policy

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what is Middle East policy it's setting

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arms they're setting arms like no one's

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business they're killing people like no

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one's business in their drone uh program

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these are not peace Nicks but what's the

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policy and if you look at it from the

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sort of um receiving end of this the

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client end of this uh the Saudis say

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Abdullah said to himself well if uh

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Obama's prepared to let uh Mubarak go he

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might be prepared to let me go and so so

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so what's happened actually is the sort

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of uh the American Security franchise as

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such has has has has has gone has has

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been inherited by the Saudis and they're

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making their own policy that's one of

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the causes of instability in the region

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is that in fact uh Iran Saudi Arabia uh

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turkey uh Qatar uh all of these Regional

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players are now making their own policy

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uh and sometimes it is mutually

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contradictory so the the guys who are

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fighting uh in in Yemen are not the same

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guys that they're fighting in in

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everyone switches sides all the time

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Egypt um has given a lip service to uh

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the military campaign of the Saudi and

273
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:05,279
the amirati military campaign in uh uh

274
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in Yemen but it hasn't actually provided

275
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any troops so so you you can see there's

276
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,320
complete chaos and this one intervention

277
00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:14,320
hides another that that's what's so

278
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,800
worrying about it and I'm not saying we

279
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,000
should go back to sort of you know

280
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:21,600
American or British

281
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:25,320
colonial he

282
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hegemony um but uh this is a much more

283
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,480
unstable Middle East and the Americans

284
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,360
don't have many ideas left no well you

285
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:35,000
and I have specialized in that region

286
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:37,959
for very many years and uh I suspect

287
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:41,360
even we would find uh a difficult uh

288
00:12:37,959 --> 00:12:42,880
Road out of all this because as half an

289
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,480
Irishman I could say I wouldn't have

290
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:47,519
started from here if I was looking to

291
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,000
get out of it David har thanks for

292
00:12:47,519 --> 00:12:51,639
joining us on the

293
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Sputnik coming up next Gordon Brown

294
00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:57,680
moments for David Cameron and the queen

295
00:12:54,199 --> 00:12:57,680
don't miss it

296
00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:04,600
back to Sputnik it was embarrassing

297
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,800
enough when David Cameron was caught on

298
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:10,839
tape describing Afghanistan and Nigeria

299
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:13,199
as fantastically corrupt even if it did

300
00:13:10,839 --> 00:13:15,680
have the benefit of being the truth but

301
00:13:13,199 --> 00:13:18,480
it was not the whole truth the Afghan

302
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:21,040
regime was put into Power by us and

303
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:24,680
billions in corruptly obtained looted

304
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:27,639
Nigerian wealth is Sheltering happily in

305
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:30,000
London even more embarrassing was the

306
00:13:27,639 --> 00:13:32,760
queen herself captured ases her husband

307
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:35,880
the Duke of Edinburgh usually is on tape

308
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:39,480
being rude to Johnny Foreigner now that

309
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:42,279
was news her Target was China the most

310
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,800
populous most powerful biggest economy

311
00:13:42,279 --> 00:13:48,519
in the world so who else should walk us

312
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:51,839
through here but China and Africa expert

313
00:13:48,519 --> 00:13:56,199
Keith Bennett Keith let's start with

314
00:13:51,839 --> 00:13:59,759
Africa briefly if we may Nigeria is and

315
00:13:56,199 --> 00:14:03,120
has been always fantastically corrupt

316
00:13:59,759 --> 00:14:06,600
but a most of the corrupt looted wealth

317
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:09,199
is here in London and B Nigeria finally

318
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:12,360
has a president who's cracking down on

319
00:14:09,199 --> 00:14:14,880
corruption it was a pretty crude vulgar

320
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,759
thing for Cameron to say wasn't it I

321
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,680
would think so yes uh when you're

322
00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:20,480
putting forward a flagship

323
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:22,079
anti-corruption conference as one of

324
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,360
your major International initiatives

325
00:14:22,079 --> 00:14:26,399
it's probably not a very good idea to

326
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,000
insult two heads of state when you've

327
00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:30,120
only managed to attract four of them to

328
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:33,639
come in the first place

329
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,480
uh Nigeria that so half of the heads of

330
00:14:33,639 --> 00:14:39,199
state coming to the conference were

331
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:41,920
insulted in one quip by David Cameron uh

332
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:43,720
with Nigeria of course for for decades

333
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:47,160
we know that sections of the Nigerian

334
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:49,800
Elite have been uh bleeding billions and

335
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,680
billions out out of the country Accord

336
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,759
uh two years ago the economic Figures

337
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,680
were were recalculated and it was

338
00:14:53,759 --> 00:14:58,279
discovered that Nigeria not South Africa

339
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,800
is Africa's largest economy and of

340
00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:02,959
course it's a country that that sits

341
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:05,320
literally sits on oil and yet um people

342
00:15:02,959 --> 00:15:08,120
queue in in Lagos or the capital Abuja

343
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,759
for hours and hours to to f fill their

344
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:13,120
cars with petrol so the fact that

345
00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:15,440
there's huge corruption in Nigeria is

346
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,279
not an issue but president bukari the

347
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,800
current Head of State uh first of all he

348
00:15:18,279 --> 00:15:23,600
was elected on an anti-corruption

349
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,759
platform secondly this is his second

350
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,720
term has head of state he he was a

351
00:15:25,759 --> 00:15:31,519
military ruler at one time in the past

352
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:33,800
and and at that time he was noted

353
00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:36,600
for you know what would be said to be a

354
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,600
very enthusiastic very Draconian uh

355
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,480
anti-corruption Crackdown so it's not

356
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,680
just words that the man has a track

357
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:45,440
record of of of fighting corruption and

358
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:48,480
it really seems uh gratuitous to to

359
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,839
insult him and of course this money

360
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,759
that's bled out of Nigeria it's not held

361
00:15:50,839 --> 00:15:54,880
in Nigerian Banks it's not put through

362
00:15:52,759 --> 00:15:56,519
the Nigerian Financial system as you say

363
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,160
it's where is it it's in the United

364
00:15:56,519 --> 00:16:01,759
States the United Kingdom Switzerland

365
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,800
and these various uh Crown territories

366
00:16:01,759 --> 00:16:07,680
and dependencies what we used to call uh

367
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:10,680
colonies and president bhari said that

368
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:13,240
when that corrupt money is um located it

369
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,839
is in his words very tedious costly and

370
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,680
timec consuming to get it back and he's

371
00:16:15,839 --> 00:16:18,839
proposing an international

372
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,160
anti-corruption

373
00:16:18,839 --> 00:16:23,000
architecture that when looted funds are

374
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,959
identified they should be returned

375
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,720
immediately and in full and I think Mr

376
00:16:25,959 --> 00:16:29,600
Cameron would be better advised getting

377
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,519
behind president bhari efforts rather

378
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:35,120
than insulting him now uh Mr Cameron has

379
00:16:32,519 --> 00:16:37,959
once or twice in his life uh apparently

380
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:42,759
been caught behaving injudiciously in

381
00:16:37,959 --> 00:16:46,079
front of cameras but the queen uh I as

382
00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:49,000
far as I know never has uh the

383
00:16:46,079 --> 00:16:51,360
Revelation this week that she was

384
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,680
insulting China and the Chinese

385
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:56,079
leadership her guests recently in

386
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:59,759
Buckingham Palace came as a genuine

387
00:16:56,079 --> 00:17:01,600
surprise to me uh proba means that she's

388
00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:03,759
doing it all the time but it's never

389
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,000
captured on camera but it came as a

390
00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:07,839
surprise I'm used to the dukee of

391
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:10,959
Edinburgh with all his racist uh jokes

392
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:14,480
and epithets and so on um she said they

393
00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:16,520
were rude um it's never been my

394
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:20,280
experience that Chinese people are uh

395
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:22,520
rude what did she mean by that well

396
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:25,919
perhaps I'm not the person to ask what

397
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:28,079
she meant um you're the nearest to her

398
00:17:25,919 --> 00:17:33,559
majesty that we could entice on to the

399
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:36,679
show right okay uh but I think it has to

400
00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:38,400
be set in in in some kind of context and

401
00:17:36,679 --> 00:17:41,880
and I'm sure that the um that the

402
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:44,440
Chinese are will do so first of all I

403
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:47,360
think that when you have a state visit

404
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:49,760
by and from any country the security and

405
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:53,120
protocol people from that country you

406
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,880
can expect to be pretty much focused on

407
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:57,480
the convenience the

408
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,600
needs uh the respect and and the

409
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,720
security of of the person that they're

410
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:05,960
working for I I don't think that that's

411
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:07,400
uh terribly unusual um so I can imagine

412
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,600
there there would be kind of tense

413
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:13,039
moments in in any of these kinds of

414
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,679
discussions but I think more broadly

415
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:17,480
it's you have to look at this in in the

416
00:18:14,679 --> 00:18:19,320
context of history that uh in China they

417
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,679
talk about a hundred years of of Shame

418
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,559
and humiliation when China was a play

419
00:18:22,679 --> 00:18:27,720
thing of of the um the imperialist

420
00:18:25,559 --> 00:18:30,159
powers and the first president of China

421
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:32,799
Dr sanat Sen talked about China's

422
00:18:30,159 --> 00:18:34,919
foreign policy being to unite in

423
00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:37,200
solidarity and to unite in common

424
00:18:34,919 --> 00:18:39,400
struggle with all countries that treat

425
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,559
us as equals and I think this question

426
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:45,799
of treating as equals uh is uh is very

427
00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:49,000
is very important uh for the Chinese and

428
00:18:45,799 --> 00:18:51,440
and if you put that Chinese sensitivity

429
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,200
about the need to be treated as equals

430
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,120
against some of the rather archaic

431
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,480
rituals that the British establishment

432
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:59,720
still surrounds itself with uh you might

433
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,559
recall that Michelle Obama was

434
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,200
excoriated in sections of the press

435
00:19:01,559 --> 00:19:05,440
because she dared to put her arm around

436
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,400
the queen in the gesture of affection

437
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,280
you might recall that an Australian

438
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,799
labor prime minister I think it was Paul

439
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:15,400
keing was told off because he dared to

440
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:17,320
touch her majesty on the arm so I guess

441
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,400
the when you're used to that level of

442
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,880
deference yeah the concept of rudeness

443
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,080
might come across slightly differently

444
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,240
than it may to you or I who live in a

445
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,280
more Rough and Tumble world I believe it

446
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,799
was reported that the comments from the

447
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:33,600
queen were censored in China I don't

448
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:36,440
know to what extent that's true but I do

449
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:38,880
believe that there was a throwback that

450
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:41,159
the Chinese actually responded to to the

451
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:46,039
queen in their own ways I think the

452
00:19:41,159 --> 00:19:48,120
Chinese are would be Keen not to give

453
00:19:46,039 --> 00:19:52,280
too much publicity to the to this

454
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:55,080
comment uh in in China for for several

455
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,240
reasons one as I said they don't want

456
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,200
this kind of incident to unduly

457
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:02,679
interfere with what they hope to get out

458
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:04,679
of the bilateral relationship and what

459
00:20:02,679 --> 00:20:07,559
people sometimes fail to realize is that

460
00:20:04,679 --> 00:20:10,559
the Chinese government has to be very

461
00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:13,520
sensitive to to public opinion and

462
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:16,919
public opinion in China is much more

463
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:19,200
sensitive on questions of of of foreign

464
00:20:16,919 --> 00:20:20,880
slights and insults or the behavior of

465
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,000
countries with which China has some

466
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,360
historical grievance than the Chinese

467
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,360
government and the Chinese authorities

468
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:29,360
are themselves so you recall that uh d

469
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:32,240
chaing uh

470
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:35,679
gently chided the Queen's son Prince

471
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:39,159
Charles over the Hong Kong when Charles

472
00:20:35,679 --> 00:20:41,600
ventured some advice to China as to how

473
00:20:39,159 --> 00:20:45,000
things should be after the return of

474
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:48,840
Hong Kong to the motherland dcha ping

475
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:52,720
said the days when China took orders

476
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:54,720
from foreigners uh is long gone and this

477
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,640
squares with the point the overarching

478
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,679
point that you are uh making let me if I

479
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:04,039
may switch gear

480
00:20:59,679 --> 00:21:07,600
uh the Panama leaks of course have been

481
00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:10,200
enormously embarrassing damaging to all

482
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:14,360
kinds of people all kinds of countries

483
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:16,520
except the United States to date uh but

484
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:19,720
I have to tell you as a friend of China

485
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:23,440
myself they don't make Pleasant reading

486
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:27,279
uh Visa V China either there appear to

487
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:30,880
be a significant number of people with

488
00:21:27,279 --> 00:21:33,559
close family relation to former leaders

489
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:39,000
of the Chinese Communist

490
00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:41,960
party is this some kind of blip or does

491
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:45,520
it mean that China's own commitment to

492
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:49,520
cracking down on corruption and so on uh

493
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:53,360
is not quite what it seems

494
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:55,640
well I think that uh nobody denies that

495
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:58,159
that corruption has become a serious

496
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:01,880
problem in China and has been uh for a

497
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:03,919
long time time and the the successive

498
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,760
leaders of the Chinese Communist party

499
00:22:03,919 --> 00:22:07,919
for over and and the Chinese government

500
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,039
for well over 20 years have actually

501
00:22:07,919 --> 00:22:11,320
said that this is a life and death issue

502
00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:14,640
for

503
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:18,720
them uh what's been different about the

504
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:21,360
present regime is that it has been uh it

505
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,480
is there there has been not only a lot

506
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:25,799
of talk but but a great a great deal of

507
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:28,600
action literally dozens if not hundreds

508
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:30,880
of ministry level officials in China

509
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,240
have have been toppled and and punished

510
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,080
for for for corruption some executed

511
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,480
even yes some people have been executed

512
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:41,240
for corruption uh not anybody with a

513
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:44,600
political background so far okay

514
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,600
um but that doesn't mean to say that uh

515
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:51,640
this problem which

516
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:54,520
one has been accumulating over a couple

517
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,840
of decades and two is quite deeply

518
00:22:54,520 --> 00:23:00,919
rooted in in the sort traditional feudal

519
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:05,559
culture anyway is going to go away um o

520
00:23:00,919 --> 00:23:09,320
overnight so as you uh review uh the

521
00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:11,720
situation in China now with the economic

522
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,960
uh wobble which was of course inevitable

523
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:19,919
given the world international situation

524
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:23,159
you optimistic for China uh going

525
00:23:19,919 --> 00:23:24,760
forward yes I'm fairly optimistic uh

526
00:23:23,159 --> 00:23:27,240
that's not to say that there aren't

527
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,880
there aren't problems uh the point is of

528
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,600
course that there have always been

529
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:35,000
problems uh people in the west uh seem

530
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,400
to think that only they are capable of

531
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,960
identifying problems in China and if

532
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,440
there is a problem it's incapable of

533
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,600
solution actually the Chinese are

534
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,799
probably more ruthless and self-critical

535
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,480
about their problems and foreigners are

536
00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:50,760
and they're determined to to solve them

537
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,440
uh just last week The Economist had a

538
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:57,360
16-page supplement on saying on China's

539
00:23:54,440 --> 00:24:00,480
Banking and finance saying that a huge

540
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:03,240
uh bust uh was inevitable and I think

541
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,640
this would be worrying if it wasn't for

542
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:09,120
the fact that the economists published a

543
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,840
similar report back in 2002 which said

544
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:13,600
that China's leaders had run out of time

545
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,760
and options and the next uh and the next

546
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,039
decade China would enter into a period

547
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,480
of grave economic instability in fact

548
00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:22,679
over that next decade of course the

549
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,120
Chinese economy grew uh by more than any

550
00:24:22,679 --> 00:24:26,720
other economy in

551
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:28,840
history well that's a very positive and

552
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:32,640
optimistic note to end on GTH minute

553
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,640
thank you very much for joining us thank

554
00:24:33,399 --> 00:24:37,840
you and now it's your turn to tell us

555
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,840
what you think through the portals of

556
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:43,480
social media what's rattling gri well uh

557
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:46,360
about Saudi Arabia um and their relation

558
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,760
with us basically Raymond delone says

559
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:51,000
the medieval Saudi state has been the

560
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,960
architect of its own downfall the

561
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,120
unforced oil price Scots has backfired

562
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,480
massively well you know there's a great

563
00:24:56,120 --> 00:25:01,360
Chinese saying that sometimes the the

564
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:05,200
enemy struggles mightily to lift a huge

565
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:08,799
Stone only to drop it on its own feet

566
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:11,720
very apt AK says because we need a

567
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:14,080
reason to help them with bombs missiles

568
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,880
and troops and in response to the

569
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:19,039
Queen's comments about China Ellen

570
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,960
Swanson says it's understandable she

571
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:23,919
found them rude I mean she lives with

572
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,760
the world's most polite men fa the Greek

573
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:29,120
absolutely perfect but that alas means

574
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,600
it's the end of my first show go back

575
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,559
but you can stay in touch with us

576
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,640
through the social media on Twitter at

577
00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:38,080
rtor Sputnik or on Facebook Sputnik on

578
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,279
Russia today it's goodbye from me gatri

579
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:43,279
and from me George Galloway it's been

580
00:25:40,279 --> 00:25:43,279
marvelous

581
00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:50,189
[Music]