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thank I get

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[Music]

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gatri

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President Obama has just lifted the arms

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embargo on Vietnam it is 2016 the

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Vietnam War ended more than 40 years ago

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well actually the war never ended after

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the Vietnamese Army entered Cambodia and

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over through the genocidal Kus regime

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the US and Britain continued to

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recognize ppot dripping in Blood of

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millions as the legitimate leader of

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Cambodia even insisting that he kept the

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country's seat at the UN the lifting of

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this arms embargo has more to do with

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the looming us confrontation with China

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than with such local niceties though

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officially welcoming the end of this

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cold war embargo China knows this very

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well so will Vietnam allow itself to

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become an American catpa against China

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how will China react what's it all about

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anyway who better to talk us through it

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than Dr Lee Jones of Queen Mary

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University of London Dr Lee thank you

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very much for joining us tell us what

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you think the visit of President Obama

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to Vietnam where he was Beatboxing with

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a local rapper the last News Bulletin I

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saw is really all about I think

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fundamentally as you say it's really

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about the looming confrontation uh with

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China from the American perspective so

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they've been so-called pivoting back to

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Asia since 200

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and nine after a long-standing focus on

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the Middle East what the Americans are

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trying to do is regain lost ground that

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they've lost to China in the region and

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cultivate stronger closer relationships

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with countries that are concerned about

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China's rise and Vietnam is one of those

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but why has this uh kind of tension

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emerged uh China supported the

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Vietnamese people in their long war

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against um the United States of America

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which killed millions of Vietnamese

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dropped oceans of chemical weapons on

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them try to destroy the country why

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should uh Vietnam be more hostile to

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China than it is to the United States

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well also because they have obviously

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more of a similar political system right

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and that similarity in political systems

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means that there are party-to-party

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links that keep a lid on any disputes

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between the two countries um most of the

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time but there's a couple of issues here

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one is the the legacy of Chinese

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imperialism in in Vietnam which goes

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back many centuries uh and the

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Vietnamese struggle for independence

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from China the first time round and then

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although China supported the Vietnamese

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in their struggle against the Americans

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as you say uh immediately after the war

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there was a fear among the Vietnamese

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that the Chinese would try and dominate

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them so they instead aligned themselves

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with the Soviets and because of the

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split between the Soviets and the

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Chinese in the context of the Cold War

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that meant that they were enemies with

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the Chinese and the Chinese punitive

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invaded Northern Vietnam after the

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Vietnamese overthrew paulp in Cambodia

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and essentially China then aligned

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itself with the asan countries and with

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the United States against Vietnam for

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the rest of the Cold War at the moment

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the issue though is less the history and

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more the current disputes over the South

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China Sea tell us about those uh what

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are the gripes that China's neighbors

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have with China in the in the Straits in

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the sea so the South China Sea is a very

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large um area of ocean and it has um

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very small Islands or maybe not even

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Islands just kind of Rocky outcrops

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things that submerge a high tide and uh

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it's disputed between China and six

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Southeast Asian States as to who

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actually owns these islands right so not

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just Vietnam but also importantly the

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Philippines they're the kind of main

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claimants but there are some others too

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and what the conflict is really about is

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about the resources Under the Sea so

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fish in particular but also

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hydrocarbons and during the Cold War

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when China was quite weak Southeast

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Asian states started to build up these

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islands to construct um runways on them

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and build military installations and so

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on to solidify their claim to them

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having grabbed them after they became

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independent and now China is doing the

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same thing now it has the capacity to

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project Force Beyond its borders it's

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trying to solidify the claims on the

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islands that it occupies in order to get

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those resources in the seabed and that's

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leading to growing tensions and

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conflicts in that part of the world and

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isn't the clue in the name South China

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Sea uh how do you evaluate the Val H how

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would you evaluate the competing claims

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I mean it depends under what framework

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you interpret the claims but the

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dominant one today is the UN convention

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on the law of the sea from 1982 and

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under under that China's claims are

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actually very weak um because the most

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of the formations in the South China Sea

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are not really I as I mentioned they're

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they low outcrops and that doesn't give

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you any right to exclusivity over the

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oceans surrounding it so that's what a

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lot of the disputes are about it's kind

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do they not belong to any country then

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under the UN they may belong to somebody

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but it doesn't give you any right over

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the oceans necessarily but then the the

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ownership of various islands is also

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disputed so if we look at the the claims

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that the Chinese are making they're not

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consistent with prevailing International

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law uh and China a signatory to that

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1982 yes it is interestingly enough the

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Americans are not even though they've

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never ratified it but the Americans are

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trying to make sure everyone complies

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with it and in many of their practices

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the Americans do in fact comply with it

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even though they never ratified it um

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but so there's a moment there's a case

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uh in the uh in the international court

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that the Philippines is suing basically

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against China because China lays claim

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to a vast area of ocean saying kind of

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you know the OWN the ocean which is

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again not consistent with international

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law well that's the proximate cause but

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isn't the real cause this looming

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confrontation with China on much bigger

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issues China is the biggest economy in

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the world with the biggest armed forces

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in the world it is the uh it is the

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coming

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superpower and the United States feels

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threatened by that and therefore it's

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setting up uh some maybe all of China's

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neighbors as cats Sports I don't I don't

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accept that I think that that kind of

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analysis tends to undermine the agency

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of the governments of these countries

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themselves they have their own interests

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they have their own agendas their own

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identities and so on and they're pushing

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those as well so what explains American

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policy is precisely what you said but

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that doesn't explain why Vietnam would

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be willing to become a cats po

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essentially Vietnam has its own

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interests you know it's a very

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nationalistic government it uses

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nationalism to maintain power now that

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it's basically abandoned communism in

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the same way that the Chinese do and so

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this territory has much more

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significance politically than it does

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economically so they need to hang on to

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that and one way they want to hang on to

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it is by getting external support

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against the Chinese so that explains the

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Vietnamese side so I think there's

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there's two sides Vietnam has agency and

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it is uh a genuinely Sovereign and

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independent uh country but some of the

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others are not Taiwan for example is not

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uh I would argue the Philippines is not

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uh these are to some degree or other

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American satrapies and therefore are

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catp uh for want of a better term well

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probably in in a different disguise

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Obama also brought with him something

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called the transatlantic Pacific uh uh

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partnership transpacific partnership

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exactly so can you tell us more about

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that uh the transpacific partnership is

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uh again an attempt to displace Chinese

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dominance and configure states in the

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region that share uh America's approach

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to economic governance into a free

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trading regime or just like just like

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TTI exactly between the Europeans the

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specific version of of of ttip and

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Vietnam is resisting that isn't it no

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Vietnam has signed up to it um

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surprisingly quite wholeheartedly ttip

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probably is going off the rails because

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of French opposition but TPP has been

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signed by all the relevant parties and

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this is making China more anxious yes I

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think so um although I'm dubious that t

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that TPP will ever really be fully

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implemented because there's a l a huge

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amount of protectionism in Southeast

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Asian economies that's very unlikely to

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be overcome um but it it's kind of a

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strategic gesture you know it points out

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that America's back you know there's an

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option here to sort of soft balance

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against China it provides those

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countries with an option but I I I still

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don't accept your line that these are

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just American puppets you know people in

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these countries have their own ideas

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their own agendas Taiwan isn't a country

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Taiwan Taiwan is a country Taiwan is a

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country but it's not an independent

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sovereign state it does rely on American

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protection to avoid being reconquered by

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the CH by mainland China no doubt about

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that but I think successive I would say

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liberated but that's another uh

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successive electoral results in in

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Taiwan demonstrate that these people

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want their own future democratically

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outside well the village of nether

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Wallop could want its own independence

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but it wouldn't stop it being a part of

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England Taiwan is a part of China just

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as Hong Kong was well that's one

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position it's not the only one available

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all right it's not the only others are

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available could this all become a

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shooting War China has just announced

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this very day that it for the first time

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is going to allow its missiles and its

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Warheads to be put together and put into

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submarines and sail around the Pacific

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this is a very significant uh

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potentially uh military strategic uh

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change for China they're obviously

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feeling very

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threatened yeah I think you know they're

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responding to American gestures with

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their own

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gestures uh I think that whenever you

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get rivalry between Ma Powers it's

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always dangerous you know when when

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States take provocative measures then

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other states will respond we've seen

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that in Ukraine for example but in this

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case I hope that the parties will not

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escalate anything over the South China

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Sea a lot of the conflicts in that

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region are not really military conflicts

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they often emerge from fishing boats

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going into contested Waters and then

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Coast Guard vessels trying to intercept

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them and then they call for backup the

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Navy said generally not involved there

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generally clashes between Coast Guards

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00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,480
and that keeps things on a relatively

279
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,480
even Keel as long as the Navy stay out

280
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,240
of it then we're not going to see a

281
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,480
shooting War but there's always the risk

282
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of escalation so in the end what's

283
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,320
needed in this region is a is a

284
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diplomatic negotiated solution but that

285
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:52,160
seems a very long way off the uh the

286
00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:54,040
Chinese have 246 nuclear missiles and

287
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:58,839
the United States has

288
00:11:54,040 --> 00:12:03,519
7,000 and the uh countries around China

289
00:11:58,839 --> 00:12:06,720
are uh are housing some of those and so

290
00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:09,560
China's I suppose trying to uh rebalance

291
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:13,560
that equation no uh I'm not familiar

292
00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:15,720
with any um American nuclear bases

293
00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:18,920
surrounding China in

294
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:20,560
Japan oh I don't think so there are no

295
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,000
American nuclear weapons in Japan no I

296
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:25,800
don't believe so really yeah or South

297
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,720
Korea I don't think in South Korea

298
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:31,120
either I mean that's certainly not

299
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,839
something I know a huge amount about but

300
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,519
given the anti-nuclear policies of

301
00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:36,680
Japanese government be very surprised if

302
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:39,000
there are any nuclear weapons on

303
00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:41,760
Japanese so well we'll have to discuss

304
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:44,920
Korea on another uh occasion because

305
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:47,480
you're a fascinating man thank you very

306
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,920
much what do you call a murder in broad

307
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:52,240
daylight involving Decades of cover up

308
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:55,240
newspaper perty mishandled

309
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,839
investigations botched prosecutions and

310
00:12:55,240 --> 00:13:01,040
millions of pounds of public money

311
00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:04,000
wasted fiction no we call it the Strange

312
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Case of Daniel Morgan deceased don't

313
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,199
miss

314
00:13:07,530 --> 00:13:12,199
[Music]

315
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:14,600
it welcome back to Sputnik the

316
00:13:12,199 --> 00:13:16,720
indefatigable Peter jukes's latest

317
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:19,079
campaign is for justice for Daniel

318
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:21,839
Morgan one of the most notorious

319
00:13:19,079 --> 00:13:23,839
unsolved murders in British history it

320
00:13:21,839 --> 00:13:26,560
has all the key ingredients for a

321
00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:30,279
Netflix series a kind of Fargo on the

322
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:33,560
temps but it is alas all true welcome

323
00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:35,519
back to the Sputnik Peter uh younger

324
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:37,959
viewers won't know what we're talking

325
00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:40,560
about so begin if you would by telling

326
00:13:37,959 --> 00:13:42,639
us what this case is about okay it

327
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:44,800
begins in the world of South London in

328
00:13:42,639 --> 00:13:47,920
the 80s you know when whopping was a big

329
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,839
dispute and uh you know certain racists

330
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,040
were marching the BMP in South London

331
00:13:49,839 --> 00:13:53,320
that area and there's a private

332
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,759
detective from Wales called Daniel

333
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,519
Morgan and he ran a company a private

334
00:13:55,759 --> 00:13:59,959
detective company with another detective

335
00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:02,480
called Jonathan Reese

336
00:13:59,959 --> 00:14:04,240
Daniel claims and Witnesses say have

337
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,440
uncovered a massive story of police

338
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,600
corruption around about 1987 with

339
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:11,600
another police officer within a few and

340
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:13,519
he's apparently trying to t t the story

341
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,839
around he knew some people in the press

342
00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:17,240
to various people in the Press

343
00:14:14,839 --> 00:14:19,880
particularly news of the world but the

344
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:22,360
story never made it he is killed within

345
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,160
a few weeks four ax blos on the back of

346
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,959
the head and the and then falls down the

347
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,240
ground the ax is left embedded in his

348
00:14:25,959 --> 00:14:29,720
face the police officer interestingly

349
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,240
enough and this is where un covered

350
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,519
since who was also you sending the story

351
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:38,160
came out with the story was also dead in

352
00:14:34,519 --> 00:14:39,639
4 months as part as a parent suicide

353
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,079
anyway the first and murder

354
00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:43,639
investigation was completely bodged and

355
00:14:42,079 --> 00:14:46,680
then there was an in and then was an

356
00:14:43,639 --> 00:14:48,800
inquest which said it was Daniel's

357
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:51,720
partner Jonathan ree who planned the

358
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,920
murder all along with a local corrupt

359
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,199
cop who was going to take Daniel's place

360
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,920
called Sid villery and he did take by

361
00:14:56,199 --> 00:14:59,560
that point he had taken Daniel's place

362
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,839
in the private detective company it was

363
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,600
in his area the murder in catford he was

364
00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:06,040
one of the first on the murder's team to

365
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:08,519
go there there was mates with Jonathan

366
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,920
ree the prime suspect cut a long story

367
00:15:08,519 --> 00:15:12,800
short after these failed to murder

368
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,800
investigations Southern investigations

369
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,720
which is the private detective company

370
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,920
now run by Jonathan Ree and Daniel's

371
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:22,680
replacement the former officer Sid

372
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:25,560
fillery becomes the heart of the Dark

373
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:27,680
Arts of Fleet Street it becomes the

374
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,839
dominant Force mainly for news of the

375
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:33,399
world but also for the group of

376
00:15:29,839 --> 00:15:35,560
obtaining money by bribing cops burglary

377
00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:37,959
they were involved in the transaction to

378
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:40,199
get the papers from Patty Ashdown

379
00:15:37,959 --> 00:15:42,000
solicitor that proved he was having an

380
00:15:40,199 --> 00:15:44,240
affair they in that transact they were

381
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,600
involved in the bugging of David Miller

382
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,680
when it came you know David meler the

383
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,920
culture Minister said the Press were

384
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,360
drinking the last chance Salon they

385
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:54,560
managed to get him on tape having a fair

386
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:57,199
and basically they were One-Stop shop

387
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:59,759
for illegal stories you could get a cop

388
00:15:57,199 --> 00:16:00,680
you medical records bank records

389
00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:02,440
anything they're working with the

390
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,160
underworld they're working with the

391
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,880
press and corrupt cops and I'd say

392
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:10,360
uniquely this toxin enters the British

393
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,120
media system becomes dominant and it's

394
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,240
only the pce only look back at them

395
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:18,920
nearly 12 13 years later in 1999 they

396
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:21,680
put a bug in southern investigations the

397
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:24,560
private detective company and they find

398
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,040
30 crimes involving journalists one very

399
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,600
senior journalist I cannot mention for

400
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,480
legal reasons but also the chief crime

401
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,399
repor and editor of News of the World on

402
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,639
crime Alex marinack and a very senior

403
00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:37,360
miror figure of course this is all

404
00:16:35,639 --> 00:16:39,360
because of the media involved it's

405
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,880
buried and then there's a fourth and

406
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:45,759
fifth murder investigation 2002 and 2006

407
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:49,880
abelard 1 and two that is led by Dave

408
00:16:45,759 --> 00:16:51,360
Cook uh who is surveyed hacked followed

409
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,040
News of the World by News of the World

410
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,800
the first investigation his wife is

411
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,160
traumatized she's only just she's

412
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,680
friends with Jill dando who was shot

413
00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,240
public figure she worked on crime watch

414
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,519
and what does she see there's a band and

415
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,279
somebody sticking something out the

416
00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:05,799
window so she thinks their family is

417
00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:07,760
under attack Dave Cook confronts Rebecca

418
00:17:05,799 --> 00:17:10,079
Brooks with the senior editor has been

419
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,400
working with Southern investigations and

420
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:12,959
they've been following him he didn't

421
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,039
know he's been hacked at that time they

422
00:17:12,959 --> 00:17:18,000
only come out later and their computer

423
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:21,160
records Rebecca Brooks promotes him and

424
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,480
then what happens in 2006 Andy K is now

425
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,799
editor Reese has been imprison by the

426
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:28,079
way for Coke for planting cocaine on a

427
00:17:25,799 --> 00:17:29,360
woman's car in a custody dispute with a

428
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:31,840
corrupt cop

429
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:34,799
comes out of prison gets hired by Andy

430
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:37,400
cson almost immediately and what happens

431
00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:39,000
Theif Andy cson the former director of

432
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,360
communications at number 10 Downing

433
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,919
Street under David Cameron the very same

434
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:45,760
and then what happens a top secret

435
00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:48,000
meeting with the Met commissioner San

436
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,679
Blair at the time decides to launch a

437
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,120
fifth murder inquir immediately that's

438
00:17:50,679 --> 00:17:53,840
leaked to the murder suspects

439
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,799
corroborated by News of the World so

440
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,400
what you have is who watches the

441
00:17:55,799 --> 00:17:59,360
Watchers you know is the the detectives

442
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,960
the police

443
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:04,200
were being bypassed and by news of the

444
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,120
world who had you know malare working

445
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:09,440
malare I spoke to malare about this he

446
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:11,240
was the Ace Telephone hacker and Tracer

447
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,039
hacked my phone as that happens really

448
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,600
well so there we go they to pay me a lot

449
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:17,120
of money for that well I think they did

450
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,360
pay off Dave Cook and Jackie haes but it

451
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,760
did that terrible things to their

452
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:22,240
marriage they felt very much under

453
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:25,159
threat and I find it extraordinary they

454
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:27,640
subverted this is better than Fargo uh

455
00:18:25,159 --> 00:18:29,960
frankly Fargo's uh the Coen Brothers

456
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:33,720
couldn't have come up with a a more

457
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:36,480
tortuous story than this uh so where

458
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:39,000
does it lie now I've counted you've

459
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,799
mention six murder investigations five

460
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:44,440
five five murder investigations one

461
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:48,400
inquest yeah any

462
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:50,200
trials the last trial collapsed finally

463
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,919
uh and a very limited I must say they

464
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,679
were just looking at the murder my

465
00:18:51,919 --> 00:18:55,120
research has shown there's a much bigger

466
00:18:53,679 --> 00:18:57,080
element of police corruption what the

467
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,840
murder was about what was covering up

468
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:02,039
Daniel was a whistleblower but they did

469
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,720
charge uh Rees fillery for providing

470
00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:06,120
course of Justice Reese for murder his

471
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,520
two brothers in-law uh Glenn and Gary

472
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:12,000
vien for the murder in 2011 but the

473
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:14,159
problem was by this time there 750,000

474
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,360
bit boxes of evidence so disclosure was

475
00:19:14,159 --> 00:19:17,960
a Nightmare the super grass had a super

476
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,760
grass who with complicated things with

477
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,600
him and the problem your you know when

478
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,200
you're defending yourself against a

479
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,840
prosecution Case by the police where

480
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,600
it's pce corruption you have the most

481
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,960
brilliant defense um you know well how

482
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,640
do we know they're not corrupt now and

483
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,559
so what happened in pre-trial it was the

484
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,120
longest pre-trial hearing in British

485
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:36,520
history like three years of disclosure

486
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,400
and eventually the weight of evidence

487
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,280
and previous corruption collaps it so

488
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,320
the can it's very unlikely to be

489
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,679
criminal prosecutions if you spoke to

490
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,120
aliser the brother who's fought given up

491
00:19:44,679 --> 00:19:48,520
his life to fight for his younger

492
00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:50,480
brother Alis would say he doesn't want

493
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,799
that now it's beyond that he wants

494
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,640
transparency all the coverups going up

495
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:56,520
high levels of the Met high levels of

496
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,320
News International that's what he wants

497
00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,720
to come

498
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:02,200
out well transparency is uh even more

499
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,559
difficult to get than criminal

500
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:08,120
convictions in uh cases like this

501
00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:09,679
because isn't this story uh a question

502
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:13,080
of who guards the

503
00:20:09,679 --> 00:20:16,080
guards uh it is although we don't have a

504
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:18,720
constitution it's kind of an Unwritten

505
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:22,679
assumption that the police can largely

506
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:27,080
be trusted but where they fall short the

507
00:20:22,679 --> 00:20:30,640
fourth estate the media uh are the next

508
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:33,559
uh Port that one can uh turn to but this

509
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:36,159
case is an intersection isn't it of

510
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:38,679
police corruption media corruption and

511
00:20:36,159 --> 00:20:41,840
the criminal class absolutely and who

512
00:20:38,679 --> 00:20:43,960
knew we had so much corruption in all

513
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,640
three I mean it shocks me you I to like

514
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,400
to see to myself a skeptical scientific

515
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,960
challenging the status quo this story

516
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,440
just completely shocked me and one of

517
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,200
the tragic elements of it is is that

518
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,760
aler having and the first two inquiries

519
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,520
went nowhere no police corruption they

520
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,520
said there was a second after the murder

521
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,240
investigation in Hampshire inquiry and

522
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,840
the police complaints Authority aliser

523
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,799
said I'm not going to give up Daniel and

524
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,400
he trained to become a journalist cuz he

525
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:11,000
thought journalism was the solution to

526
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,640
police corruption and you that's true

527
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,120
generally police corruption stories over

528
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,279
after about 15 years the Press

529
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:19,080
investigated them but the Press were

530
00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:21,120
infected too and that only AB only

531
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,080
realized this around the phone hacking

532
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:24,400
and that's just when you go he went to

533
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,559
actually fillery it's one of those trust

534
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,400
it's like a movie I'm going to go to

535
00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:29,279
fillery tell him I suspect Jonathan

536
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,480
Reese of course Reese was working with

537
00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:33,279
fillery so there's that first betrayal

538
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,400
but then he goes to the Press he goes to

539
00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:38,480
News International talks to journalists

540
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,760
there while biller and Reese are taking

541
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:43,400
cash out the back of news of the world

542
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,960
and I think you're right it's it's CLE a

543
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,200
sh all the immune systems are gone

544
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,120
aren't they you know basically your your

545
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,320
back stop which is the Press if that's

546
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,559
corrupted too you get 30 years of cover

547
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,600
well uh the news of the world like

548
00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:58,919
Daniel Morgan is now

549
00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:01,760
deceased uh have they cleaned up their

550
00:21:58,919 --> 00:22:03,360
act at News International and other

551
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,279
because News International were not

552
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:07,679
alone they were tapping my phone but so

553
00:22:05,279 --> 00:22:09,600
was the mirror uh and a lot of this came

554
00:22:07,679 --> 00:22:11,240
out of Southern investigations they

555
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,440
began that and it's interesting Reese

556
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,200
goes to prison that's when Glenn malare

557
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,360
becomes relied upon because you you

558
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,200
didn't have ree bribing cops so just to

559
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:22,480
answer your question it the good news is

560
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:25,120
you cannot bribe cops with impunity

561
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,600
anymore I mean I know a lot 35 sources

562
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:28,279
were shot by News International for

563
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,440
selling you stories to this news of the

564
00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:32,799
world and the sun nearly all of them got

565
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,720
prosecuted the journalist didn't but

566
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:37,320
under the new bribery act you know

567
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:40,200
nobody pays cops for stories anymore and

568
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:42,159
it was you know it was the motor operand

569
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,679
if you were going like to a prison RI

570
00:22:42,159 --> 00:22:45,559
I've told this many times stories like

571
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:47,159
this you went to the out of white you

572
00:22:45,559 --> 00:22:49,039
try to find the story The Sun journalist

573
00:22:47,159 --> 00:22:50,360
would have his feet up on the desk going

574
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:51,760
I've sort it out maid and drinking the

575
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:54,400
mini bar CU they paid off a prison

576
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,600
officer that system that systematic

577
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,840
Corruption of public officials has

578
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,320
finished would you come close to compare

579
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,480
this with the lawren case Steven

580
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,799
Lawrence case where obviously what

581
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,840
George mentioned also comes yeah meets

582
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:10,440
meets each other you know there very

583
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:13,720
close similarities and it's in the same

584
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,880
area and the The Wider network of cup

585
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,840
cops some involved in Daniel Morgan

586
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,640
murder when I search for Daniel Morgan

587
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,960
couldn't find anything it's only your

588
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,799
name po popped up whereas so how would

589
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:28,799
you explain the the more yeah it's been

590
00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:31,520
exped really well tell us about the

591
00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:33,760
podcast well well the podcast started on

592
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,640
on the 2nd of June a couple of days ago

593
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,520
and uh it's 10 part and one of the

594
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,120
reasons we did a podcast exactly this

595
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,600
problem I have been with Alister the

596
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:44,919
preser award and a senior mirror

597
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,480
journalist oh amazing story ala here's

598
00:23:44,919 --> 00:23:50,799
my card but we can never publish it for

599
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:53,000
political reasons so what you have even

600
00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:54,919
the guardian are not clear of

601
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,960
embarrassment over the Daniel never was

602
00:23:54,919 --> 00:24:00,240
the word even or oos well I but but they

603
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,080
are you know they have difficulties with

604
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,440
the story so the media are embarrassed

605
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,480
or also very clear legal challenge so

606
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,080
what happened is the great

607
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,600
whistleblowing detective the SEC Dave

608
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,240
Cook who did the fourth and fifth murder

609
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,679
investigations arrested for talking

610
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:18,520
about doing a book with somebody silence

611
00:24:15,679 --> 00:24:20,520
still not charged Five Years on so his

612
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:23,120
silence well nobody can silence you tell

613
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,679
us quickly where we can see your podcast

614
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:27,279
so you can find it on iTunes should be

615
00:24:25,679 --> 00:24:29,559
highlighted there Untold the Daniel

616
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:31,679
Morgan murder story story it will be on

617
00:24:29,559 --> 00:24:34,440
acast it should be and on Untold

618
00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:36,800
murder.com I'm going to that right after

619
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,520
this thanks very

620
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:42,159
[Music]

621
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,919
much and now it's your turn to tell us

622
00:24:42,159 --> 00:24:47,279
what you think through the portals of

623
00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:50,120
social media what's rling G so why did

624
00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:53,480
the US live the arms embargo after so

625
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:55,399
many decades Michael dun says forget the

626
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,200
politics there are other parties in play

627
00:24:55,399 --> 00:25:00,360
on the board game that's in play right

628
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,960
now Finance the military and mercenaries

629
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:05,000
and euroman and activist says Obama is

630
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,880
going to Vietnam because he wants to

631
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:11,000
provoke China USA cannot accept that

632
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:13,720
China and Russia are equal players today

633
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,640
I don't myself blame Obama for doing it

634
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:19,799
I blame the Vietnamese for being

635
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:22,240
prepared to tango uh with the country

636
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:24,480
that uh cost them so much blood that's

637
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,399
all the tweets for today and which alas

638
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,679
means that's the end of the show but you

639
00:25:26,399 --> 00:25:30,399
can stay in touch with us through

640
00:25:27,679 --> 00:25:32,480
Twitter at r rtor Sputnik or on Facebook

641
00:25:30,399 --> 00:25:34,399
Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye

642
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:38,440
from me gatri and from me George

643
00:25:34,399 --> 00:25:38,440
Galloway it's been marvelous

644
00:25:48,140 --> 00:25:51,539
[Music]