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[Music]

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I get

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[Music]

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gri the

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gamekeeper who turns poacher is the most

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effective poacher of them all our first

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guest Tony norfield is such a man a

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former Banker senior Economist at Bank

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of America international and Global head

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of Foreign Exchange strategy at ABM Amro

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among other roles he's written a

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devastating new book called the city

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London and the global power of Finance

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which exposes the corruption and greed

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of the banking system here and abroad

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where it is the weapon of choice for

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rich countries looting the poor and I'm

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glad to say he joins us now on the

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Sputnik congratulations on the book

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first of all ton a great piece of work

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published by Verso it's not just the

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banks is it it's it's the financial

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system it's itself yes that's um strong

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point of the book actually that whereas

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there's been especially since the

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financial crisis a lot of focus of

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people that you know the horrible

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banksters they're ripping us off um I

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think you get a more devastating

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critique of capitalism today when you

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look Instead at how the financial system

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is part of the expression of power of

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the major countries and it's Corporation

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governments really even more than the

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banks uh in terms of getting control

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over the world's resources dominating um

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the world economy and generally getting

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their way and yet there's no alternative

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to it really is there um under

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capitalism no so it the book is

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basically anti- capitalist so I'm not

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suggesting that there's regulation that

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can be done or you know you do various

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things to re the banks in and somehow

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that solves the problem I think the

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problem that might be a start yeah glass

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steagle might be a start a bit of bit

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more regulation than the Blair Brown era

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heralded well even if you look at GL

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Eagle um what happened instead was the

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American Banks went

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overseas um they did all kinds of uh

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subsidiaries to do the operations that

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glass eer would have prevented him doing

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and the development of the Euro markets

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in the 50s and 60s is was based around

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avoiding glass eagle and getting access

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to international funds so you can put

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regulations in place but it then leads

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to the financial system doing something

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else because um you know capitalist

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exploitation uh the way capitalist

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markets work they will always find a way

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of using regulation systems and getting

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around them you were at the heart of uh

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of capitalism uh in the very uh High

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positions that you held within the

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system did you have a a moment of

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epiphany uh in which you saw the light

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or underneath your uh Banker suit was

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there always beating a an anti-

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capitalist heart

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um basically I've been a Marxist all my

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adult life and I haven't really changed

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on that score did you tell them that at

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abro no the the good thing about it and

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this is is one of the ironies of the

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working in the financial system or in a

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dealing

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room they're not so bothered about what

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your views are it's um can you tell them

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which way the market is going and I

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found especially in the foreign exchange

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field you had less um less of a

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requirement um to say you know chief

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executive X is a wonderful person or the

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chancellor is doing such a splendid job

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really the point was is it going down or

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is it going up tell me when how much etc

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etc and long as you did that you're okay

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so really I was glad that I wasn't

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working so much in say the bond or the

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equity markets where the pressure on

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individuals to you know tell the story

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to support the system it was far less

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the case and basically I I used to but

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you were helping the enemy make very big

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profits I was trying to understand how

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the system worked and said well okay I

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think this currency is going down or up

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or whatever and and you know it it's

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going to happen no matter what I say

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about it and I and what I I what I

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wonder is did you meet encounter a lot

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of people of your line or were you

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lonely in there they're pretty thin on

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the ground I say many Mar in the square

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mile although actually they have to

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concede the genius and greatness of Marx

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and indeed the financial times not that

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long ago uh at the time of the crash uh

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partially rehabilitated uh Marx as of

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course they had to because the

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predictions uh or the line of

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March uh predicted by Marx came to pass

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no yeah there was um it was only a brief

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period I must say um and this was more

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when all of these standard economic

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theories you know lording free markets

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and all this kind of thing and how it's

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going to be wonderful for everyone

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clearly was so patently at variance with

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reality that you found a number of

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commentators would um you know look back

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say maybe what Marx was saying etc etc

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um I I think they quickly recovered

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their Poli yeah well I think they

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haven't really recovered actually but

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instead they're flailing around trying

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to find other ways to make the system

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work and they're basically running out

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of options Marx's analysis though was

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that the system was doomed do you think

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it's doomed I mean I'm not young anymore

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and I've been predicting the demise of

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capitalism for a very long time and uh

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people uh have been doing so in previous

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generations can capitalism survive um

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the system is systematically

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dysfunctional more and more violence and

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increasingly so you find that it's even

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happening in the Richer countries now

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whereas prior to that say 20 odd years

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ago most of the depredations in poor

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countries kind of went by the wayside

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nobody really cared that much about them

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they weren't on popular news programs so

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as long as um things in say Western

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Europe or North America are okay or

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Japan that was all fine capitalism is

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wonderful um what has happened I think

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which has led to a crisis in most of the

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uh ruling Elites in the major Powers is

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that it's becoming pretty clear that you

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got mass unemployment especially youth

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unemployment in many countries system

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doesn't work and all of their nostrums

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of you know independent central banks

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etc etc all of these apparent rules that

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would make everything work wonderfully

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forever they've all fallen to pieces so

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you find that um you know very

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traditional conservative Central Bankers

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are coming up with policies that would

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be

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considered outrageously radical or

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Breaking All the Rules you know even

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Mark Cony if you know week ago the bank

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of England um promising to buy yeah this

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I found quite extraordinary I think was

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the

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um amazing thing from him he wanted to

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buy not simply buying corporate bonds

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bonds of companies 10 billion pounds

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worth but companies who were doing good

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for the UK economy and that completely

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contradicts all of the free and Fair

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open Level Playing Field etc etc things

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and I think it's a sign of a growing

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nationalism in the major powers only

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very small sign admittedly but it's one

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which um reflects the fact that theyve

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more or less run out of policies and

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they're still flailing around trying to

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figure out what to do to get the system

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on its feet I'm reading at the moment

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the Diaries of the Soviet ambassador to

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London Ivan mesy from 1930 to 19

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43 uh in which he records a conversation

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with Anthony Eden who became the

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conservative prime minister predicting

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exactly what you've just been

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describing uh and hoping Eden was that

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at least communism when it comes it can

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be a kind of conservative communism a

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British a very British form of uh

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communism it's well worth a read um are

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we heading for another crash and if so

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what form will it take and when will it

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be you're a great expert at predicting

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Trends um my view is that we're we're

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past the so-called acute phase of the

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crisis and instead we're in The Chronic

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phase of the crisis so in the same way

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somebody with a debilitating chronic

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disease might look a bit okay one day

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and get up even go for a walk um the

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problem is the the underlying problems

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are still there and they're not being

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resolved so you find this reflected in

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still huge levels of

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debt um certainly in order rich

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countries but in the past five six seven

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years the levels of debt have risen

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dramatically in poorer countries too

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China turkey lot of Asian countries

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African countries Etc this is a state

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debt though yeah no not necessarily in

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our case isn't our crisis private debt

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as well as state debt well well the joke

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is that a lot of the private debt was

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taken over by the states that's

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especially the case in the US you know

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the US fed has got the equivalent of 25%

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of America's GDP on its books in the

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form of um having bought US treasuries

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government securities and mortgage back

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Securities right so you find uh I I I

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mentioned this example in the book but

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it's the case that the the US Federal

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Reserve is probably effectively the

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largest land Lord in the US now or

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largest kind of uh how can I put it

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mortgage lender effectively so they'

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bought the mortgage back Securities so

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the interest payments made by ordinary

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US citizens paying off their mortgage a

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lot of that is going to US Federal

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Reserve you know and say the Wonders and

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innovation of capitalism no few bounds

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really absolutely no the banks uh were

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held to be uh too big to fail in the

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years since the bankers too big to jail

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did you come across many of your

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contemporaries in the city who really

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ought to have been in jail um not

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particularly I I must say I mean um I'm

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not kind of you know hiding names in my

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back pocket or something like this the

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um and actually more in the foreign

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exchange area although it's um been in

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the news for rate fix some of them did

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go to jail one of the I think three of

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them have gone to jail three of the only

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people in the whole crisis yeah sure and

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uh they more or less made sure that the

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people handling um the big Securities

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operations were left untouched and I was

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working largely in the foreign exchange

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area so um I I I would consider what

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they did it broke the rules but frankly

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it's no big deal and even on fixing

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liore a lot of the time the when this

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story came up um there's kind of

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populist attack on banks they're fixing

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liore ripping you off half the time they

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were fixing lior to make it lower to

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show that their own bank was not having

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to borrow too higher rate so ironically

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the banks fixing liall were often

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reducing people's mortgage rates rather

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than raising them and this is something

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of course you don't get send them to the

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House of Lords never mind Public public

276
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spirited chaps it's a terrific book uh

277
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the city uh and I hope it does very well

278
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,680
published by Verso y I got that right I

279
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,000
hope people read it it's uh it's very

280
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:05,440
Illuminating indeed and congratulations

281
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:09,079
for coming out of the city in your True

282
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Light thanks very much ton

283
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[Music]

284
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:17,040
okay welcome back to Sputnik for me the

285
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,720
Olympic Games is an epic waste of time

286
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,600
and money and that's at the best of

287
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:24,279
times it usually ruins the people who

288
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,760
host it and is an exercise in persuading

289
00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:29,199
us that people we've never heard of have

290
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,360
become Heroes because they were forth

291
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and sports we've scarcely heard of and

292
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:37,639
wouldn't dream ordinarily of watching

293
00:13:34,519 --> 00:13:40,680
since 1936 in Hitler's Berlin it has

294
00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:43,680
been used as propaganda on a grand scale

295
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:46,279
the US LED boycott of the 1980 Moscow

296
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:48,560
Olympics and now the crude Collective

297
00:13:46,279 --> 00:13:51,199
punishment of Russia in the Rio

298
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:53,560
Paralympics tipping disabled athletes

299
00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:55,880
out of their wheelchairs before they got

300
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:58,279
to their starting lines and it has been

301
00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:00,639
accompanied by the full blast of cheap

302
00:13:58,279 --> 00:14:03,639
Jers from the us athletes and a

303
00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:06,720
russophobic media chorus but there are

304
00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:09,720
of course moments of pure gold too our

305
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,639
next guest is a chronicler of those and

306
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,279
has a brand new and wonderful book

307
00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:16,680
called The Games published by McMillan

308
00:14:14,279 --> 00:14:19,360
he's David goldblat and there's nothing

309
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:22,160
about the Olympics from Jesse Owens to

310
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:24,639
Tio Philo Stevenson that he's left out

311
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:27,839
it's a medal winning effort and he joins

312
00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:29,759
us now David congratulations a fantastic

313
00:14:27,839 --> 00:14:32,440
book uh on board both sides of the

314
00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:35,399
Atlantic I prefer the British cover

315
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,440
myself tell us about the contents well

316
00:14:35,399 --> 00:14:39,639
the contents is an attempt to write you

317
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:42,399
know the first proper social political

318
00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:44,199
and cultural history of the Olympics uh

319
00:14:42,399 --> 00:14:46,720
and hither two actually we've only had

320
00:14:44,199 --> 00:14:48,360
two one written back in the 1980s and

321
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,240
also obviously a lot of water under the

322
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,079
bridge since then and then we have an

323
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,120
official history by Mr David Miller and

324
00:14:52,079 --> 00:14:56,759
I have to say as official histories go

325
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,320
it's actually pretty good but all of the

326
00:14:56,759 --> 00:15:01,399
you know the political Dimension um is

327
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,920
completely written out of it and given

328
00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:05,079
that you know as you say these

329
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,519
gargantuan amounts of money are spent on

330
00:15:05,079 --> 00:15:09,759
it and up to three billion people are

331
00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:11,720
actually watching the damn thing I

332
00:15:09,759 --> 00:15:14,320
thought it was time to actually give it

333
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:17,040
the full narrative and political history

334
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,000
actually the numbers I learned from you

335
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:24,160
uh were even more startling than I

336
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:26,279
thought 20 billion to put on a games 10

337
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,000
billion if you're really lucky in

338
00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:31,279
Revenue that leaves a big hole in

339
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,240
anybody's budget um the whole economics

340
00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:35,199
of the Olympics has gone mad I mean

341
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,560
people sort of talk about how much money

342
00:15:35,199 --> 00:15:39,440
there is in sponsorship and broadcasting

343
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,120
but that actually adds up to no more

344
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:44,319
than around 4 billion over the four-year

345
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:47,240
Olympic cycle nearly all of which is

346
00:15:44,319 --> 00:15:49,319
spent by the ioc either on itself or

347
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,040
supporting the international volleyball

348
00:15:49,319 --> 00:15:54,560
Federation and the actual staging of the

349
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,279
games the ioc doesn't pay a damn thing

350
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,759
there's no Telly money going towards

351
00:15:56,279 --> 00:16:00,800
that all of that costs has to be borne

352
00:15:58,759 --> 00:16:03,880
by the host you know of which ticket

353
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:06,240
sales and you know licensing tat to be

354
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,880
sold you know probably brings you in

355
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,920
half a billion so actually the costs are

356
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,519
all with the host and almost invariably

357
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:16,639
with the public sector you know London

358
00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:20,079
which um was uh a relatively modest

359
00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:24,160
games compared to some came in at 12 13

360
00:16:20,079 --> 00:16:27,839
billion up to SOI 50 billion do 40

361
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:30,680
billion for Beijing so um it is a

362
00:16:27,839 --> 00:16:32,759
gigantic amount amount of money to spend

363
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,839
and all the evidence suggests that the

364
00:16:32,759 --> 00:16:37,600
purported benefits for the whole city

365
00:16:34,839 --> 00:16:41,160
are either minuscule or more likely

366
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:45,560
negative you're an opponent of fixing it

367
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:47,160
in one place and maybe uh I would argue

368
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,240
scale it down a bit I mean there's

369
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,600
things in the Olympics now that are

370
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,759
ridiculous Golf and and Tennis

371
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,800
absolutely so on why not put it in one

372
00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:57,920
place why not put it in ancient Greece

373
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,920
well if you put it in one place first of

374
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,279
all you'll destroy the kind of

375
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:04,799
Cosmopolitan Universal quality of the

376
00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:07,000
games I mean if the games has a purpose

377
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:09,360
it's that you know in a very fragmented

378
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,240
but globalized World there is a place

379
00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:13,360
where we can collectively go and look at

380
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:16,079
Universal humanity and above all through

381
00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:17,799
sport which is a nonlinguistic medium

382
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:20,559
which means that Elites and masses

383
00:17:17,799 --> 00:17:22,000
people of any language can engage with

384
00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:23,839
this thing so I think that's a very

385
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,839
valuable you know you want to hold on to

386
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:27,400
that but if you just stick it in ancient

387
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:29,280
Greece a you've got to deal with the

388
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,440
Greek public sector who's record on

389
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:34,240
looking after monuments and managing

390
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,679
public sector expenditure is not good

391
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,360
secondly you're saying This Global

392
00:17:36,679 --> 00:17:41,720
representation of humanity is ultimately

393
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:44,160
derived and beholden to the helenic

394
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,400
tradition now this is all very well for

395
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,080
kind of European gentleman of a certain

396
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:51,120
era you know that says civilization is

397
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,360
descended from ancient Greece but you

398
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:54,960
know this 21st century what do people in

399
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:57,039
China think about this what do people in

400
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,960
Africa think about this you know they're

401
00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,640
not that these are intellectual and

402
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,039
cultural Traditions that don't see

403
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,000
Greece as the root uh and so I think it

404
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:07,480
would massively undercut that so I'm

405
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:10,000
against in one place I think if there is

406
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:13,000
going to be if we're looking for ways of

407
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:15,159
trying to manage and minimize it then

408
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,000
let's get rid of um golf let's get rid

409
00:18:15,159 --> 00:18:20,360
of tennis let's get rid of football all

410
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:23,200
of which have Global standings as it is

411
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:25,360
secondly why do it over seven years

412
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,120
you're asking Rio from a standing start

413
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:30,159
to go bang seven years change your city

414
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:32,240
of course it's going to be expensive

415
00:18:30,159 --> 00:18:34,360
much can happen within those as is the

416
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,480
case in Rio so if you look at Barcelona

417
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:38,520
which is considered a success it's

418
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,600
because the Olympics were the crowning

419
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,679
Glory of a period of urban Redevelopment

420
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,039
rather than the Catalyst to get it going

421
00:18:43,679 --> 00:18:47,960
Barcelona have been at it for 17 years

422
00:18:46,039 --> 00:18:51,039
and the Olympics eventually brought it

423
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:53,039
together so I say give people 15 years

424
00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:55,600
if they want to build a lot of new stuff

425
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:57,720
penalize them if they demonstrate

426
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,360
expertise and success in raising

427
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,120
participation rates

428
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:04,080
uh in sport make that a positive rather

429
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:06,200
than a negative above all don't just

430
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,039
hold it in one city you know I mean the

431
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,840
Olympics isn't in one city anyway you

432
00:19:08,039 --> 00:19:12,360
know when London held the games where

433
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,120
was the sailing it's in Waymouth right

434
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:17,200
you know when Beijing held the games the

435
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:19,320
sailing is 900 miles away why not have a

436
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,880
network of cities why not hold the games

437
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,360
in the Baltic states you know who are

438
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,400
never by themselves going to get the

439
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:27,840
games but you could have you know all

440
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:31,120
around the Baltic cities could stage

441
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:33,120
some of it so I think that is you know

442
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,200
there are possibilities but to make that

443
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,880
happen above all there's going to have

444
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,559
to be political reform at the ioc and no

445
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,720
one's putting any money on that one just

446
00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:43,960
a moment let's talk about the politics

447
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:47,960
for a minute uh as you just alluded

448
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:49,559
Brazil is now in a kind of dictatorship

449
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,840
politically the president has been

450
00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:55,559
overthrown there's a kind of coup going

451
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:59,200
on in Brazil doesn't compare of course

452
00:19:55,559 --> 00:20:02,200
with the the Nader

453
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:06,880
of a politicized Olympics the

454
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:11,000
1936 fascist games in Berlin but it is

455
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:15,440
used isn't it by the regime in which the

456
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:19,080
games are being held to gloss up or

457
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:22,159
Market their uh their ideas and I was

458
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:25,640
struck by the extent to which much of

459
00:20:22,159 --> 00:20:29,240
the paraphanalia of the modern games has

460
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:32,240
its roots in the fascist Berlin games of

461
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:34,400
1936 the lighting of the torch uh for

462
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,559
example the running with the torch

463
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,640
lighting and so on um is that is that

464
00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:41,320
all a bit

465
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:44,000
dodgy I mean the games has always had a

466
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:46,840
political agenda from 1896 I mean Baron

467
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:49,440
deeran thinks that he's reestablishing a

468
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:51,520
kind of Neo helenic Cult of the amateur

469
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,000
athletic gentleman you know and he

470
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:56,559
describes the games as the purpose as a

471
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,200
display of manly virtue for which the

472
00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:01,280
reward is the polite Applause of winning

473
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,799
and for him the games is a tableau on

474
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,240
which to demonstrate you know the new

475
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:08,520
ruling classes of 19th century Europe

476
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:11,240
and North America who play sport as a

477
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:13,120
way of establishing a spre deor and so

478
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,000
on so like it's only because he's a

479
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:17,159
super privileged you know why

480
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,320
aristocratic man that he assumes his

481
00:21:17,159 --> 00:21:21,279
position is nonpolitical whereas like

482
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,200
I'm listening to that and going really

483
00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:25,799
that's not a political agenda and the

484
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:30,120
Greek royal family in 1896 who of course

485
00:21:25,799 --> 00:21:32,960
are of German descent uh and need

486
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:35,360
burnish need to burnish their Olympic

487
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,559
their Greek credentials back the Olympic

488
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:39,919
Games I mean your point about Berlin is

489
00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:41,679
really interesting in that obviously

490
00:21:39,919 --> 00:21:43,919
Berlin's the moment not merely where it

491
00:21:41,679 --> 00:21:46,279
becomes very political but where you've

492
00:21:43,919 --> 00:21:49,000
got enough money behind it to make it

493
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:50,600
the global spectacular that it becomes

494
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,400
of which the lighting of the torch is

495
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:55,480
one Element interestingly though there's

496
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:58,120
another side to that story which is the

497
00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:01,640
1932 games in Los Angeles and it's worth

498
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:03,840
remembering ing that uh uh lald and DM

499
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:07,120
who were the organizers of the 36 games

500
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:11,760
are all in LA taking notes taking

501
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:14,000
photographs and La brings the pizzazz of

502
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,400
the new culture industries of Hollywood

503
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,600
of the new commercialism to the games

504
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,720
and that is equally transformatory I

505
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,960
mean you know at the Olympic Village

506
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,760
you've got Will Rogers who is the

507
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,600
comedian in the United States in the

508
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,720
1930s you know comic Cowboy and he's

509
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,760
working as a Bel boy because this makes

510
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,400
fantastic photo opportunities for him

511
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:37,120
and his Studio Coca-Cola for the first

512
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:40,120
time plasters Los Angeles with its

513
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:42,240
product and its advertising Standard Oil

514
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:44,960
claims the Olympic rings and there's

515
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:47,080
this extraordinary neon sign of Standard

516
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:51,159
Oil in the Olympic rings spinning in

517
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:53,559
Downtown LA so yes Berlin is the first

518
00:22:51,159 --> 00:22:56,279
truly great spectacular where you've got

519
00:22:53,559 --> 00:22:58,600
the money of a nation state behind you

520
00:22:56,279 --> 00:23:01,400
but La brings a certain kind of

521
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:05,120
Hollywood celebrity Mass appeel to the

522
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:09,000
games that it had never had before real

523
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:12,120
how do you judge it well uh as Jan Li

524
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:15,279
said of the uh the French Revolution

525
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:17,320
it's too early to say um I mean I think

526
00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:19,600
the thing with Rio is that the disaster

527
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,720
has already happened I always thought

528
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,360
that Rio would put on a great televis

529
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,720
spectacular you know they did it in 2007

530
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:29,559
for the panamerican games while the

531
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:32,360
complex OD Alam one of the main favellas

532
00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:34,480
was under armed Siege 44 people died

533
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:36,760
during the Pan-American games it wasn't

534
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,919
a problem so I always thought Rio would

535
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,840
be fine I think the disaster has already

536
00:23:38,919 --> 00:23:43,400
happened I mean that's the thing you

537
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,320
know you take the issue of water quality

538
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,480
which is is a big talking point at these

539
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:53,000
games guanabara Bay is you know full of

540
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,919
um feal viruses sofas dead dogs Etc uh

541
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,240
and um and it's not been you know it's

542
00:23:54,919 --> 00:23:59,120
not been dealt with and the tragedy is

543
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,640
not that the athletes have to deal with

544
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,919
this though that of course is

545
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:06,200
inconvenient but the vast majority of

546
00:24:02,919 --> 00:24:09,000
Rio citizens are still waiting for their

547
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,480
you know sewage to be treated and it's

548
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,000
the wasted opportunity it's the wasted

549
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:17,240
money it's the misdirection of funds

550
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:19,200
it's the opportunity costs and um and I

551
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:22,480
think that you know hopefully if Rio has

552
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:25,080
a legacy um it will be that next time

553
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,760
around much harder questions are asked

554
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,679
about how these things are put on David

555
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,440
you're a great talk a great writer It's

556
00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:33,279
a Wonderful book and I'm really grateful

557
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,760
that you came on board thank you so much

558
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:37,320
for having me it's been a

559
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,520
[Music]

560
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,640
pleasure and now it's your turn to tell

561
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,000
us what you think through the portals of

562
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:46,200
social media what's ratling guy well on

563
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:49,000
the city and the banking uh state of

564
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:52,399
banking uh a gives the answer

565
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:54,399
nationalized simples and farla hin says

566
00:24:52,399 --> 00:24:57,039
government can't tell the truth about

567
00:24:54,399 --> 00:25:00,159
trillions of toxic derivatives held by

568
00:24:57,039 --> 00:25:03,159
the deutser RBS EU Banks as it would

569
00:25:00,159 --> 00:25:05,080
kill the world economy on the games um

570
00:25:03,159 --> 00:25:08,840
we asked for the top Olympic moments and

571
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:11,760
Ricardo Picasso uh lays out clay Ali

572
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:13,640
Owens bolt some of the most influential

573
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,080
black role models of all time are the

574
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:19,080
Olympic Heroes and not to men John

575
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:21,600
Carlos John Carlos but who we met yes

576
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,360
usin Bol is the only thing I'm going to

577
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,799
watch in the Olympics I have zero

578
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:28,320
interest in the Rio Olympics as the

579
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:30,480
viewers already know well there all

580
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,200
tweet for this week which alas means

581
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,039
that's the end of the show you can stay

582
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,840
in touch with us on social media through

583
00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:39,039
Twitter at rtor Sputnik or Facebook

584
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,320
Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye

585
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:44,090
from me gatri and from me George

586
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:51,690
Galloway it's been marvelous

587
00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:51,690
[Music]

588
00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:58,130
[Music]