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[Music]

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I

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get

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gri the

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War on Drugs always seemed like a phony

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War to me instead of defending our

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borders against the invasion of the drug

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dealing Body Snatchers our security

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forces are usually too busy invading

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other people's countries far from

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beefing Up Customs and Coast Guards

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successive governments have instead been

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reducing the labor force almost nobody

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gets pulled at the green Channel at

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airports as I can testify from this very

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morning when hundreds of people went

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through Gatwick Airport with me with n

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Customs officer or more importantly a

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dog in sight and people deal openly in

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places we all know including our very

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own block some people's response to the

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clearly failing War on Drugs is to run

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up the white flag and get give it up

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others like our first guest go for a

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radical change of strategy we'll find

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out what that could look like now with

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Neil Woods who was 14 years an

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undercover police officer posing as an

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addict he's written a new book called

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good cop bad war and he joins us now

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Neil thanks for coming on the Sputnik

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it's a remarkable story in a nutshell

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what did you do for 14 years well um

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I would pose uh sometimes as an addict

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as you say sometimes as a sort of

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mid-level scul a traveling criminal and

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basically my targets were the sort of

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middle management gangsters who would

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run uh the sort of Regional Supply of

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crack cocaine and heroin generally in

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inner city areas but in order to do that

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I would manipulate problematic heroin

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users and sort of move amongst their

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sort of

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communities and

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so over time

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uh I realized I mean I realized very

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early on that the War on Drugs in its

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current form was a ridiculous concept

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something that we we couldn't win but

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for every year that I did the work and I

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would sort of s of have six months of

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the time deployments in different cities

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for the time that I did the work each

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year it gets harder and harder because

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as the police increase their tactics and

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get more sophisticated in their tactics

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there is a natural push back from

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organized crime from the gangsters that

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I was trying to catch and the biggest

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weapon in their arsenal of course is

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violence and intimidation and so the

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most successful gangsters and the most

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successful organized crime groups are

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the ones that can most completely

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intimidate entire

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communities and So eventually I realized

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that the reason that gangsters and

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organized crime was getting more violent

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was in a direct response to me or rather

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people like and the the development of

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police tactics and and that there is an

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inevitability to that you know in any

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unregulated

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Market monopolies appear and this is the

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most lucrative unregulated Market in the

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world so in order to take away the power

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of organized crime we need to get drugs

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under control and regulate

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them well we'll come back to that I've

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just literally gotten off a plane from

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Canada Vancouver one of the world's

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loveliest cities beautiful setting

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British Colombia uh it has an image

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downtown in other words in the center of

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Vancouver is a district which is

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literally swarming you can't see this

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the pavement the sidewalk for derel

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people devastated by drugs all gathered

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in one area area where presumably some

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kind of Regulation is going on in the

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sense that they're getting needles

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getting at least alternative supplies

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they're not actually heroin or even

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crack addicts mainly it's a drug I'd

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never heard of called is it franol uh

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fentel fentanyl which devastates

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hundreds of people kills them hundreds

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of people every year in Vancouver um so

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what are we going to do about this well

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fentel is an interesting one it's it is

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heroin addicts that use fenil because it

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is it is an opioid it's just a

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particularly strong opioid and the

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criminal markets are latching onto

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fentanyl because it's quite it's um in

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terms of its volume it can be it's more

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portable it's more portable it's quite

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useful told me there yeah so it's very

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useful for them to do but Canada's an

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interesting

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um particularly Vancouver is a very

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interesting City to compare

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the situation with the UK because um in

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Vancouver they have this organization

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called Insight where people have safe

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consump safe injection rooms so people

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can go and they can use their drugs

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safely and they're not they're not dying

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they can receive health care and to date

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no one has died of an overdose in a drug

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in a in a safe injection site and so the

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deaths from drugs in Canada has been

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dropping dramatically the amount of

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healthc care addicts get in Canada is

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increasing and if you compare that with

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the UK we've had three years running of

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record deaths so things are not going

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right here and actually the situation in

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the politics in Canada is a very good

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place to look to for how to improve

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things the Canadian government has just

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approved uh prescribing heroin in the

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first instance to people who need it

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that's why I raise it uh if that's the

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kind of Regulation you mean that is

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running up the White Flag isn't it

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because people who are already hooked

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are just going to find more easy and

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safe to be hooked yeah the the great

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danger in drug policy is to judge people

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and if for to decide that someone else

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has to get off their drug that sort of

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DCT dictates what policy you're going to

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take every problematic heroin user that

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I manipulated and I did manipulate

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people I put them in more danger I made

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their lives worse all of those people

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the prostitutes people who relied on

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stealing for their for their lives they

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are being manipulated by organized crime

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they are being used by gangsters they

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could be rescued from that life by

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prescribing them heroin in the first

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instance and then should they choose to

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to seek treatment then they could be

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provided treatment in a safe environment

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well I must say I disagree with you

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profoundly uh I do judge people uh who

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are addicted to drugs that are going to

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kill them destroy the circle around them

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uh corrode and de away at The Wider

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Society I make a judgment on that and I

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think the state needs to make a judgment

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on that your proposal is effectively

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that the state becomes the dealer are

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you saying that if there's no demand for

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the criminals they their their

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activities would decrease or what I'm

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saying is there is evidence that

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punitive measures don't impact on demand

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that's a different matter yeah that's a

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practical Point yeah so but to get to

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the point about the government being the

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dealer rather than organized crime well

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in the to start with I would say it is

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better for the government to be the

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dealer than organized crime gangs

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because why not set up brothel and we

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can be the pimp as well let's let's

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tackle the fact that that you you judge

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those people because most people do

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morally judge people who have become

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addicted to heroin now most of the

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people that I I came across were broken

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people who were self-medicating for

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something one particular person whose

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street name was um in Northampton and

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she said I can come of heroin and I do

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sometimes but when I do I become

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suicidal so I so I stay on it and the

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reason that she becomes suicidal is

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because the memory of the sexual abuse

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that she received as a child was too

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much for her to cope with now any drug

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counselor will tell you that around

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2third of problematic heroin users are

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self-medicating for either childhood

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physical or sexual abuse so to

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criminalize people who essentially need

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help is not only counterproductive it's

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cruel well I'm not saying criminalize

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them I'm saying criminalize the people

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who are selling them let me turn to that

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I I sat in Parliament for almost 30

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years heard all the rhetoric about the

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war on drugs but I I never actually felt

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there was a war going on do you do you

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share that I mean the effort certainly

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to protect our borders is pitiful the

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action that you can take in policing or

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with Borders or or any aspect of the

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attempt to control drugs with with the

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mechanics of the state and policing are

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doomed to failure the demand is too high

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I mean compare it with normal crimes

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because drugs drugs is a policing issue

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really to stand out compare it for

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example with

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burglary any Police Inspector or

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detective sergeant in this country knows

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that you can catch two burglar and you

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can reduce the crime in a town or maybe

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even half a county you can reduce those

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burglaries by catching a people because

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by catching those to a degree you're

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reducing the demand it's a very small

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number of people committing those things

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but policing cannot impact on the demand

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in society for drugs and the punitive

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measures do not put people off you know

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people are not this rational actor that

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make a decision about drug taking that

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they may get into trouble it just

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doesn't happen no not the addicts but

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the businessmen are

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gangsters sometimes

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interchangeable well yeah I mean they

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are user there are user dealers going to

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be affected by two things the likelihood

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of being caught and the punishment if

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and when they are caught that's ABC of

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policing isn't it um it would seem the

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intuitive view to take but actually the

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amount of money that's involved in the

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drug Supply it doesn't put anybody body

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off at all bear in mind I spent a long

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time working very hard in the front line

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of the War on Drugs that and and I've

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I've put people away for and and you

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sacrificed some of your Health you you

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were damaged by The Experience am I

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right yeah but I've come out the other

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side of that Health healthier than ever

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um but you know I put people in prison

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for over a thousand years and I caught

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some really nasty nasty gangsters but as

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police intelligence

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shows I only ever interrupted the drug

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Supply in each City for around two hours

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there is always someone going to step up

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now okay I I understand that people's

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reaction is to say well that doesn't

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mean we should give up yeah but it as is

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the case with many wars the only way to

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truly win is to declare peace because

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this this is a this is an arms race

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there's no chance of deescalation in

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this war when when I when I say that

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organized crime gets more and more

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vicious in response to policing I'm not

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exaggerating and there's no limit to

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where that can go I'm going to read your

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book because it looks like uh I need to

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be challenged on my point of view

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but if you'd taken that walk down

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Hastings with me in downtown Vancouver

279
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yesterday and seen the Pavements black

280
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with devastated dect people I don't

281
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think you'd be quite so Keen to suggest

282
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it as a model Neil it's a fascinating

283
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discussion and I look forward to reading

284
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the book and I hope many other people do

285
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also thanks for joining us thank you

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coming up next 15 years on we talked to

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the founding chairman of the stop the

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war Coalition and leading British trade

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unionist Andrew

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[Music]

291
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Murray welcome back to Sputnik 15 years

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ago a small group of people of whom I

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was one knew that 911 was a harbinger of

294
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great storms to come and formed the stop

295
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thew Coalition the largest mass movement

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in British history its founding chairman

297
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was one of the leaders of Britain's

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largest Trade union unite and but for a

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brief internum when the chairmanship

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00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:06,199
passed to Jeremy Corbin before he had to

301
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,680
hand it back having been elected leader

302
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of the labor party Andrew Murray has

303
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been the chairman for almost all the

304
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:18,959
time since and he joins us now Andrew

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00:13:14,519 --> 00:13:21,800
the conference uh today uh is looking

306
00:13:18,959 --> 00:13:24,320
back at that 15 years what are your main

307
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,440
Reflections yourself well the main

308
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,320
reflection is it's tragic we still have

309
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to have a stop the war Coalition after

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15 years that the war on terror which we

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were United to oppose in 2001 is still

312
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continuing it's still causing

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Devastation across so much of the planet

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so while it is important to look back

315
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and of course there are many inspiring

316
00:13:44,199 --> 00:13:48,880
memories from those 15 years uh we also

317
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,079
have to look ahead to the very near

318
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,959
future where we still have to bring this

319
00:13:51,079 --> 00:13:56,000
war on terror to an end and oppose the

320
00:13:53,959 --> 00:13:58,519
really growing danger of even bigger

321
00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:01,360
conflicts superpower conflicts around

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Syria Ukraine uh and so on so

323
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unfortunately uh Britain still needs a

324
00:14:03,959 --> 00:14:09,040
strong uh Mass anti-war campaigning

325
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,839
movement uh and I think the conference

326
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will be as much focused on that as it

327
00:14:10,839 --> 00:14:15,880
will be on uh on reflecting on what has

328
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uh has been an extraordinary history

329
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over the last yes it's not that any of

330
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:23,360
the conflicts 15 years ago have ended no

331
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the battles in Afghanistan now involve

332
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:31,399
Al-Qaeda fighting Isis for power uh when

333
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the foreign armies finally uh leave uh

334
00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:36,000
in Syria and in Ukraine we'll come to

335
00:14:33,639 --> 00:14:38,800
them uh there are flash points that

336
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:41,920
could uh produce Wars that are that

337
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:44,320
dwarf the wars we've already seen but

338
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,639
let me run this past you I'm actually

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quite

340
00:14:45,639 --> 00:14:52,360
surprised uh the Bourbons it was said uh

341
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:56,279
learned nothing and forgot nothing our

342
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:59,560
leaders and our fourth estate our

343
00:14:56,279 --> 00:15:03,360
media appears to be

344
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:06,120
like the Bourbons they don't have any

345
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:10,160
there's no sense a cintilla of

346
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:12,320
reflection or self- reproach or

347
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,279
self-criticism they're saying the same

348
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,160
things and proposing to do the same

349
00:15:14,279 --> 00:15:19,360
things that were so disastrous last time

350
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,440
around well it's even a bit more bizarre

351
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,800
than that from one point of view they

352
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,839
embark on a war it's then in due course

353
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,920
acknowledged to be a disaster we had the

354
00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:30,160
chilot report about Iraq more recently

355
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,959
we've had the Comm committee report on

356
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,360
Libya saying it's a disaster and

357
00:15:32,959 --> 00:15:35,880
everyone that acknowledges that was a

358
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,519
disaster or more or less everyone

359
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,240
acknowledges that was a disaster and

360
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:43,120
then they go on to another one they are

361
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,800
impelled to carry on trying to impose

362
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,519
their will on countries that don't want

363
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,199
to have the will of Britain and the USA

364
00:15:46,519 --> 00:15:51,480
imposed on them uh they it always ends

365
00:15:49,199 --> 00:15:53,360
in disaster you're absolutely right not

366
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:57,000
only has the war been going on for 15

367
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:58,399
years in aggregate not a single aspect

368
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,959
of that war has ever come to an end

369
00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:04,600
whether it's Afghan anistan Iraq Libya

370
00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:07,360
Syria Yemen of course now as well so

371
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,959
there is a blindness and even though

372
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,480
they say from time to time oh we got

373
00:16:08,959 --> 00:16:13,440
that one wrong it doesn't lead to enough

374
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,959
pause for thought before they embark on

375
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,480
the next conflict and meanwhile the

376
00:16:14,959 --> 00:16:20,399
effects of it are reaching the people

377
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:22,600
here in Britain through the refug part

378
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:26,240
of the war isn't it the the the attack

379
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,639
on our own Liberties the refugee crisis

380
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,839
and so on well when the stop the war

381
00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:32,360
Coalition was formed as well as our main

382
00:16:29,839 --> 00:16:34,839
objective being to stop the war then the

383
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,600
war in Afghanistan primarily we also

384
00:16:34,839 --> 00:16:38,639
said we have two other objectives to

385
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,040
oppose a racist backlash and to defend

386
00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:42,399
civil liberties because we foresaw that

387
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,880
those would become issues that would

388
00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:48,360
arise out of the conflict and that's

389
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,720
what uh has been proved absolutely true

390
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,680
uh the refugee crisis now is directly

391
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,040
connected to the war very directly and

392
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,759
intimately and of course it is then used

393
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,639
by politicians on the right and not only

394
00:16:56,759 --> 00:17:02,600
on the right to stimulate a sort of

395
00:16:59,639 --> 00:17:05,240
xenophobic xenophobic feelings so this

396
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:08,120
war like like most wars in the last 100

397
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,400
150 years is not simply a war fought

398
00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:13,720
somewhere else with with no domestic

399
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:16,600
consequences the sort of um tendrils of

400
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,480
this war reach deep into our own Society

401
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:21,760
why though are they fools or are they

402
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:25,000
naves are they James Bond or or Austin

403
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,799
Powers uh why have they learned nothing

404
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,919
why do they keep doing it well my my

405
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:31,200
analysis I think is shared by a lot of

406
00:17:28,919 --> 00:17:33,559
people in stop the war would say this is

407
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,440
uh A variation on imperialism it's a Neo

408
00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:38,480
Imperialism of course people can look at

409
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,679
it and look at it from other aspects but

410
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,880
the the Hallmarks of imperialism

411
00:17:40,679 --> 00:17:45,120
neocolonialism the drive for hegemony

412
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,400
the drive to secure resources uh the

413
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:49,240
drive to order the whole world uh around

414
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,679
the interests of a few great powers are

415
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,320
all very much uh at play you take any

416
00:17:51,679 --> 00:17:55,880
particular conflict of course there are

417
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,440
nuances there are other aspects and we

418
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,640
we can't say that the peoples of the

419
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:03,039
Middle East and South Asia simply pawns

420
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:05,960
on a chessboard nevertheless there is uh

421
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:08,200
uh imperialism uh in my view uh which

422
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:11,919
has been set back and defeated from time

423
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:13,880
to time but is Undead uh is at the root

424
00:18:11,919 --> 00:18:17,640
of it now you wrote a novel some years

425
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:21,760
ago now in which you with great precence

426
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:24,600
I I may now add uh looked forward or at

427
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:28,799
least uh in the direction forward to a

428
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:32,039
time when an actual superpower conflict

429
00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:35,760
could be sparked in one of these

430
00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:38,600
hotspots Syria Ukraine maybe

431
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,039
both we're quite close to that now well

432
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,440
we are I mean that was a book I wrote In

433
00:18:40,039 --> 00:18:44,120
the 1990s flasho World War I it had a

434
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,919
sort of Novel introduction and then went

435
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:50,919
into more non-fictional analysis and uh

436
00:18:47,919 --> 00:18:53,320
I argued then really looking ahead that

437
00:18:50,919 --> 00:18:55,720
a war could break out over the Ukraine

438
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,120
um I identified the flash point as been

439
00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,760
Lov in the western Ukraine rather than

440
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:02,880
dbass and eastern Ukraine but but yes

441
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,280
this logic because in the 1990s you'll

442
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,720
remember George it was a sort of new

443
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,200
world order a world order there supposed

444
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,440
to be peace and uh uh All the Troubles

445
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,320
are supposed to have been ended with the

446
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,880
ending of the Soviet Union and I was

447
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,080
then arguing that quite the reverse was

448
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,640
true this would unleash new sorts of

449
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,600
conflicts uh and the three broad areas

450
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,440
I'd identified then which didn't take a

451
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,200
lot of uh great skill but were the

452
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,480
Middle East Eastern Europe around the

453
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,360
Ukraine and the Far East and in each of

454
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,760
those now we haven't talked about the

455
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:32,559
Pacific get the confrontations between

456
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:36,360
the United States and its allies pushing

457
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:38,240
against China uh these could lead to uh

458
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,960
much bigger Wars and if we consider the

459
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,360
breakdown complete breakdown of us

460
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,760
Russian relations over Syria uh the

461
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:47,159
tensions in the Ukraine caus primarily

462
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:50,039
by NATO's move eastwards pushing

463
00:19:47,159 --> 00:19:51,880
eastwards uh and the uh the fact that

464
00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:54,400
the United States can't easily

465
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:57,559
accommodate the rise of Chinese power in

466
00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:00,240
what is after all China's own backyard

467
00:19:57,559 --> 00:20:03,280
uh all of these in the name South China

468
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:05,400
Sea South China Sea that is a clue it's

469
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,200
not the Far West American

470
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:10,679
sea uh so and all of these history

471
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,600
teaches us that all of these things can

472
00:20:10,679 --> 00:20:15,320
lead to Wars and of course in the past I

473
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,760
mean in our lifetimes that normally went

474
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,840
this s nuclear standoff between two

475
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,760
great powers and perhaps a war like that

476
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,799
remains happily very unlikely but some

477
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,120
sort of escalation uh a dramatic

478
00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:30,200
escalation bringing in big Powers uh

479
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:33,280
into these conflicts uh which have um

480
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:35,720
either been stirred up or at worst uh

481
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,919
exacerbated by us and British

482
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,440
intervention that is a real danger well

483
00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:42,480
in Syria they are I mean their airplanes

484
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:46,720
are in the same airspace there are

485
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:49,799
missiles flying through the same air uh

486
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:52,520
Russia has taken the fight to Isis and

487
00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:56,679
Al-Qaeda and the foreign invasion of

488
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:59,000
Syria uh to the front line and the

489
00:20:56,679 --> 00:21:01,520
United States is increasingly angry

490
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:04,640
about it it doesn't take much of an

491
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:07,320
accident for an actual Clash between

492
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,480
these two superpowers to take place well

493
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,080
not at all and I mean although you and I

494
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,960
would have criticisms of President

495
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,600
Obama's uh foreign policy uh I fear that

496
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,640
whoever is elected as the next US

497
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,159
president will be deterioration I mean

498
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:23,360
just um yesterday or the day before John

499
00:21:21,159 --> 00:21:25,840
McCain a very senior member of the US

500
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:29,840
Senate he was arguing for the US to

501
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:31,960
impose a um a no fly on Syria impose a

502
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,880
no fly zone saying shooting down any

503
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,880
Syrian regime planes and making the

504
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,880
environment unsafe or hostile for

505
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,440
Russian planes well this is a recipe for

506
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,159
war now at the moment I don't imagine

507
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:45,440
President Obama is likely to go down

508
00:21:42,159 --> 00:21:47,279
that line President Clinton um well much

509
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:50,720
more likely and for president trump it

510
00:21:47,279 --> 00:21:52,760
would be unwise to try and anticipate

511
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,440
what might uh uh happen as long as it

512
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:59,360
doesn't involve a Mexican beauty queen

513
00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:02,400
uh so uh uh who would want that finger

514
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:05,799
on the trigger uh so so these are real

515
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:08,200
fall over and and press it yes indeed so

516
00:22:05,799 --> 00:22:11,159
we're actually in a far more danger I

517
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:14,600
mean you and I grew up and did uh took

518
00:22:11,159 --> 00:22:17,960
sides in a in a cold war environment

519
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:21,320
where we kind of knew but for the Cuban

520
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:25,039
uh Missile Crisis we kind of knew that

521
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:28,039
it wasn't going to lead to a hot War uh

522
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:31,000
the Soviet Union was led by by sober and

523
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:33,640
realistic people and up to a point so

524
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:36,120
was the United States I mean even Nixon

525
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:40,520
when you think back now Nixon to Trump

526
00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:43,400
is Long Way um but we are now in this

527
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:47,799
perilous position where either Godzilla

528
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:52,279
one wins or Godzilla 2 wins either the

529
00:22:47,799 --> 00:22:55,120
cold calculating killary Clinton or the

530
00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:57,320
madman that's a terrifyingly dangerous

531
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:59,120
Prospect it is it is it is more

532
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,480
dangerous from that point of view than

533
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,039
it's been at any time since the end of

534
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:05,760
the second World War I mean for the

535
00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:07,720
reasons you've outlined a nuclear uh

536
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,600
confrontation between the USA and the

537
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:13,799
Soviet Union certainly post Cuba uh

538
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:16,559
Missile Crisis is always unlikely now

539
00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:19,120
perhaps because the threshold is lowered

540
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:20,840
somewhat that no one is in any of these

541
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:24,520
scenarios happily

542
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:27,480
anticipating missiles been fired at uh

543
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:30,240
Pittsburgh or St Petersburg uh but that

544
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:33,520
there is still a l in level of

545
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:35,159
Confrontation of the United States power

546
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,039
thrashing around most obviously in the

547
00:23:35,159 --> 00:23:40,279
Middle East but also in other parts of

548
00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:42,440
the uh of the world not coping with a

549
00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:44,320
reality that the unipolar world they

550
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:47,159
imagined post the cold war is breaking

551
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,320
up uh our objective in the stop the war

552
00:23:47,159 --> 00:23:50,400
has been obviously to bring these

553
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,919
arguments to the British people but also

554
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,320
to

555
00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:56,799
detach uh Britain the British government

556
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,880
the British people from this

557
00:23:56,799 --> 00:24:01,520
following United States into one war

558
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,559
after another there's a limit to what we

559
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:07,240
can do about us politics or Russian

560
00:24:03,559 --> 00:24:09,320
politics uh but we can focus on that and

561
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:12,400
I think stop that's where stop the wars

562
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:15,120
impact has been despite the the borbon

563
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:19,000
Tendencies You identified uh there is

564
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:21,120
also evidently a greater reluctance not

565
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,240
reluctance enough a greater reluctance

566
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:27,080
to plunge headlong into uh conflicts

567
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,520
particularly if they uh involve uh boots

568
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,880
on the ground now I'm not can't

569
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,919
complacent about that there's British

570
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:35,080
troops being moved into the Baltic and

571
00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:37,039
so on and Secret boots on the ground in

572
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,720
Syria for sure not very secret well the

573
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:40,880
best of luck with the conference sorry I

574
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:44,360
can't be there best of luck to the stop

575
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,360
the war Coalition thank you very

576
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,600
much and now it's your turn to tell us

577
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,559
what you think through the portals of

578
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:56,279
social media what's rling gri so on the

579
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:58,399
War on Drugs a euroman and activist says

580
00:24:56,279 --> 00:25:00,399
the so-called War on Drugs was another

581
00:24:58,399 --> 00:25:03,120
The Invention by the USA to keep the

582
00:25:00,399 --> 00:25:05,880
military complex spending high and on

583
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,480
the war on terror Ricardo Picasso says

584
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,159
we have learned what stopped the war

585
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,320
already knew going around bombing people

586
00:25:10,159 --> 00:25:14,440
solves nothing and maybe future

587
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:17,000
governments will have learned that when

588
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,880
2 million people protest listen to them

589
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,039
well as Einstein said doing the same

590
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,120
thing over and over again and expecting

591
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:25,480
a different result is the very

592
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:27,720
definition of madness madness indeed

593
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,200
well that's all we have for today which

594
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,799
alas means that's the end of the show

595
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,799
but you can stay in touch with us on

596
00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:37,440
social media on Twitter at rtor Sputnik

597
00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:39,520
or on Facebook Sputnik on Russia today

598
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:42,919
it's goodbye from me gatri and from me

599
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,919
George Galloway it's been

600
00:25:47,770 --> 00:25:55,859
[Music]

601
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,200
marvelous