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I

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gatri the

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world sometimes seems to be hurtling

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towards yet another economic crash

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currencies oscillating growth going into

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reverse trade deals stalling financial

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institutions bankrupt at least of

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credibility in Britain add the shambolic

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lurge towards brexit into the mix and no

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one the markets are all over the place

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one of Britain's most brilliant

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economists Lord magdi Desai of the

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London School of economics and the House

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of Lords might be best placed to explain

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where we are and where we're headed and

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it's an honor for us and he has many an

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honor that he's here on board the

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Sputnik Lord Desai thanks for joining us

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thank you there's a run on the Marmite

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the shelves are empty the Pounders are

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168 8 year low the markets don't know

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what shock is coming next are we headed

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to Hell in a hand cart I think we're

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headed for two kinds of Hell in a hand

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card first of all

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UK will realize slowly what the brexit

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decision means and especially if hard

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brexit is going to be argued because

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that says that we will give up access to

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single Market we'll have to re build all

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of the trade relations that will take

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anywhere between 3 to 5 years maybe 6

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years so there's a lot of uncertainty

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and not everybody is sure that it's

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going to come out right in the end but

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the other thing is interest rates have

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been low for a very long time lot of

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cash is around but the cash is not in

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people's hands it is the BS of Banks and

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corporations they have been buying old

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capital old shares mergers and

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acquisition those things are going

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up and so there is an acid bubble and

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one of these days this acid bubble is

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going to

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crash the question is you know will they

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be able to do something before that or

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not you know you saw Deutsche Bank uh

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you know one of the biggest bank in

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Germany was very much on the brink of

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collapse 10 days ago we still don't know

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whether it it's out of they haven't

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announced whether they're bailing out or

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it's escaped death or what and so there

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is a lot of fragility in the system and

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while on one hand everybody says low

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interest rates are fine they're not very

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good for the stock

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market so what we have right now is some

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possibility let's say of a repeat of

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2008 uh another financial crash and then

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we will be stuck in this another little

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bout of recession if that happens one of

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the things to infer from what you have

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just said is that this is not just a

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British problem yeah if uh if Germany's

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biggest bank might be busted uh then

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it's clearly not necessarily related to

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brexit you might argue brexit

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exacerbates pre-existing problems but

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clearly the German deutche Bank isn't

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going burst because Britain voted to

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leave the European Union the instability

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in the world economic system uh

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affecting even China though its problems

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I wish we had it rate of growth India

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for example uh uh South Africa uh Brazil

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is in negative territory now where we

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used to talk about it as a burgeoning

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economy it's capitalism that's sick

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isn't it well you know my I have a I

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have a view that capitalism very often

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Falls sick to get rid of the weaker

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things and then they kind of bounces

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back so I mean it is not like the

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terminal crisis of capitalism we've been

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waiting for that for a very long time

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but I think in a sense people overdo

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things buy expensive assets asset

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bubbles then the whole thing crashes

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then you reconstruct but one thing has

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happened today we think of China and

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India as substantially big

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economies 50 years ago Henry Kissinger

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was saying Man full of wisdom if only

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India and China can feed themselves the

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world will have no

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problems I I this is 1966 exactly 50

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years ago in our lifetime yeah In Our

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Lifetime and so now the the center of

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gravity of the world economy has moved

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eastwards sorry can I just go back to um

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to the British uh situation and the

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asset bubble that you were talking about

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because a lot of people are interested

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in this question London Remains the most

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expensive place for houses to purchase

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prices have just bounced back by the way

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so what is that all about a lot of

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people were anticipating you know a drop

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in the in the house prices you the thing

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about house prices is that a we haven't

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built any any affordable houses you know

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the 13 years of Labor government we

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didn't actually replace any of the

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council house

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stocks and you know as population grows

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land is always sces but other thing is

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we have thrown ourselves open for the

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you know for the runaway capital of the

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entire world to come and invest ex

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that's what I mean and if you if you buy

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if you and everybody think if you buy a

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London house is better than the the back

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probably much much saer so you know you

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you are you are generating this uh this

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boom and you taught people that house

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price is going up is a good

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thing which isn't which it isn't you

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know we don't have a rental market of

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other speaking of some some European

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countries do have very good rental

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markets almost all have deliberately

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yeah we deliberately destroy the renting

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sector both social and private and we

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are leaving people with no other choice

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but to buy buy byy by and I've I've said

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again and again in in the house of law

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why don't we actually

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create a renting Market because you know

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house is not the only asset people can

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have they can have something else as an

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asset why why why does everybody get

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stuck in it's a non-performing asset

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nonperforming asset exactly you know if

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you buy a

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car and then you sell it 3 years later

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it will have depreciated he low money

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everybody thinks that house price will

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always go never go down that's a very

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good point let me go back to brexit

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because that's the issue of the moment

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of course pound is at a 168 year low bad

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news if You' got a lot of pounds and

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you're trading them bear in mind 16

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million people in Britain have less

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than1 in the bank and many millions more

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don't have a bank account and are up to

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years in debt so doesn't necessarily

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affect the man and woman in the street

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all that much except when it comes to

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Imports yeah therefore import

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substitution British m manufacturers

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British producers can come into the

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market compete with foreign imports more

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cheaply British exporters can sell their

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goods abroad more cheaply why is it held

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to be unreservedly a bad thing that the

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pound is falling in value you know the

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things that you described are longer run

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effects you know to to start our own

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Industries to to have manufactured brand

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exports will grow up what happens what's

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happening right now is the thing we

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export most Services IE tourist coming

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here is an export and that you see you

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there's a buzz in the market that you

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tourists are coming to for London the

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pound is cheap and so on that will be

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there but to to have a sustainable

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manufacturing to replace you require the

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pound to be permanently low because

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you're competing with with uh not you're

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not competing just European countri

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you're competing with you know Indonesia

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and Malaysia and China and India so I

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think that kind of strategy you have to

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have five or 10 year perspective on that

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you can't just one morning say okay

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we're going to have our own industry so

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the way to do this first of all I think

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the pound is overshot in my view it's

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it's it's gone back down much more than

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it should have the markets are worried

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the world is worried at what we are are

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doing by going for a heart brexit and

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the idea

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that Mrs May proudly says terrorism

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proudly says I am for a heart brexit

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people say but what's going to happen to

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your trade what's going to happen to

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your

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income you know our firm is going to

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relocate from here into on the continent

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just maybe go to Ireland or whatever it

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is but there is going to be an impact on

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this okay

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you don't want people coming in from

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Europe

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migrants yes but what at what price are

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you willing to pay for that and that

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price has not been clarified no but the

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scene is Set uh I'm myself campaigning

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for a general election where these two

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Roots brexit is a given that's what the

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referendum decided hard or soft yeah can

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be there can be a mandate for either and

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the only way to get that mandate is a

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general election you say and you're

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right Mrs May has painted herself into a

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corner a corner called hard brexit uh

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that leaves labor the opportunity of

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being the soft brexit party I I fancy uh

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labor to win that contest whatever my

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own point of

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view I think yes if labor does an

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intelligent soft brexit strategy stays

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United you know and I think

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the further program of reforming EU and

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all that we can we can leave aside for

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the while right now it's a brexit we are

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arguing for and it'll have to say yes we

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are going to come out but we are going

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to come out much under much better

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conditions than what what these other

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lot are risking so I think that would be

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now as you know uh we have this fixed on

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Parliament act and so there is a problem

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about can we get a two3 majority to

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change the date of the election now that

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is where I think the subtlety arises how

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can labor convince the Tories that now

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is the time to have an election I mean

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remember what they were saying about

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Gordon Brown Gordon Brown is no

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legitimacy because You' become Prime

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Minister without an election now same

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thing applies to uh to Terris you know

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and so if they can be convinced I think

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events might convince them event might I

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think if the the pound where to go below

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a dollar below parity that will be a

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very big shock you know that that that a

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psychological barrier there you this

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Marmite story is very interesting

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because that the first time ordinary

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people's lives are shown to be affected

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by

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brexit and and and

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and Dawning on people that Such Great

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British institutions as Marmite and even

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HP Sauce are actually Imports they're

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not ours uh anymore now you uh in a word

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because we we're out of time you've

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tried to repeal the fixed term

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Parliament act very nobly is there a

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point in the Lord's trying again oh no

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I'm I'm waiting for my second reading

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date so it might go through it might go

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through I mean it's only a one Clos Bill

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00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:54,920
Lord toi I could talk to you all day I

275
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:57,279
could listen to you all day thanks very

276
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,959
much for coming on board the Sputnik

277
00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:03,079
thank you coming up next Professor guy

278
00:12:59,959 --> 00:13:05,279
standing a pioneer of basic income don't

279
00:13:03,079 --> 00:13:05,279
miss

280
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,519
[Music]

281
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,279
it welcome back to Sputnik Professor guy

282
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:15,560
standing of the development studies

283
00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:19,199
Department of the school of Oriental and

284
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:21,440
African studies is a co-founder of BM

285
00:13:19,199 --> 00:13:24,680
which means good in French or basic

286
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,920
income Earth Network or maybe both he

287
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:29,160
campaigns as it says on the tin for

288
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:32,040
everyone to have a basic income

289
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:34,720
regardless of anything really I've never

290
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,680
entirely grasped what that means so I as

291
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,160
well as you might well learn something

292
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:41,680
today because Professor standing is here

293
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,600
with us with his new book the corruption

294
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:47,199
of capitalism why rentiers Thrive and

295
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:50,000
work doesn't pay he's just flown in from

296
00:13:47,199 --> 00:13:52,600
Geneva and joins us now Professor guy

297
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,839
thanks very much for coming do you mean

298
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,360
that capitalism is corrupt or that

299
00:13:54,839 --> 00:14:00,240
something is corrupt in capitalism I I

300
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:03,399
think both apply but in particular what

301
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,920
I'm arguing in the book is that the

302
00:14:03,399 --> 00:14:08,680
proponents of capitalism claim that

303
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,920
they're in favor of free markets and

304
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:12,880
that is a fundamental lie about what's

305
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,959
happened in the last 30 years of

306
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,519
globalization it's not free markets at

307
00:14:14,959 --> 00:14:19,600
all yeah you could claim and I argue in

308
00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:23,160
the book that what they've done is

309
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:25,680
construct the most unfree market system

310
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:28,040
that's ever been devised that's a strong

311
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,759
statement but it begins with the

312
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,720
realization

313
00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:34,959
capitalism in the globalized context has

314
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,519
changed in character fundamentally

315
00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:40,399
changed in character and the character

316
00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:42,839
is today rentier capitalism in other

317
00:14:40,399 --> 00:14:46,560
words the return to property and assets

318
00:14:42,839 --> 00:14:48,199
is shot up and the returns to labor and

319
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,240
the returns to producing goods and

320
00:14:48,199 --> 00:14:52,680
services have both shut down it's a it's

321
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,720
a very strange thing and what's happened

322
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,880
is that the income distribution system

323
00:14:54,720 --> 00:15:02,519
of the 20th century has broken down give

324
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:05,000
you a few facts that support that U

325
00:15:02,519 --> 00:15:07,040
assertion traditionally in the middle

326
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:10,199
Decades of the 20th

327
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:12,880
century the share of income going to

328
00:15:10,199 --> 00:15:16,000
Capital and the share going to labor was

329
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:18,759
roughly stable you know it was a social

330
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,839
consensus but in the last 30 years

331
00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:22,360
across the world the share going to

332
00:15:20,839 --> 00:15:25,720
Capital has gone up the share going to

333
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:29,240
labor has gone down and within those two

334
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:32,720
shares the share going within Capital to

335
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:35,639
rentiers who are earning from rent has

336
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,680
shot up and within the labor share the

337
00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:40,680
share going to the top part through

338
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,519
forms of rent has also shut up so you

339
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,160
have a double whammy for the group that

340
00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:47,560
I've been analyzing the precariat

341
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:50,560
because what has happened is a new class

342
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:53,319
because of the precarious nature no no

343
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,240
not that please the class structure

344
00:15:53,319 --> 00:15:57,560
that's emerged with globalization you

345
00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:01,680
have a plutocracy an

346
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:05,040
oligarchy earning rents by bucketfuls

347
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:07,480
then you have a salariat shrinking

348
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:10,519
Employment Security pensions and all of

349
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:13,079
those things the old proletariat Which

350
00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:15,040
social Democrats and the unions and rest

351
00:16:13,079 --> 00:16:16,759
supported in the 20th century is

352
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,480
shrinking everywhere and the precariat

353
00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:20,680
is underneath but it's a class because

354
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,800
it's not an

355
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:27,000
underclass global capitalism wants a

356
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:29,639
supply of people who are being prepared

357
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,440
to accept unstable labor

358
00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:34,759
without a sense of future without a

359
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:38,000
sense of occupation but the precariat is

360
00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:40,680
growing and at the moment it's a

361
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,639
disorganized Mass some people are what I

362
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,639
call activists they're falling out of

363
00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:48,319
all workingclass communities they don't

364
00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:50,279
have University education or thing and

365
00:16:48,319 --> 00:16:53,839
this group tends to listen to the

366
00:16:50,279 --> 00:16:56,279
populists the trumps the brexit debate

367
00:16:53,839 --> 00:16:58,560
Marine Le Pen they follow that sort of

368
00:16:56,279 --> 00:17:01,279
populist message but there's another

369
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,560
part of the precariat which is the young

370
00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:05,439
educated or coming out of University and

371
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,039
college they were promised by their

372
00:17:05,439 --> 00:17:09,600
parents and their teachers to have a

373
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:11,799
future they don't have a future so if

374
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:15,720
you're in the precariat you're facing a

375
00:17:11,799 --> 00:17:18,480
life of declining real wages bumping

376
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:21,799
along more and more volatile living on

377
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:25,360
the edge of unsustainable debt where one

378
00:17:21,799 --> 00:17:27,839
accident one mishap one bad

379
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:30,960
decision you tipping you're tipped out

380
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:33,960
and that's existential fear is real a

381
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,400
real outcome of what's been happening

382
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,960
now the rent is being earned

383
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,160
fundamentally by intellectual property

384
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:44,280
the intellectual property regime that I

385
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:46,760
discussed there is enormously more

386
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,600
powerful than it was 20 years ago since

387
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:52,120
the passage of trips in

388
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:54,240
1995 the number of patents has tripled

389
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:57,280
each and every patent guarantees the

390
00:17:54,240 --> 00:18:00,240
patent holder 20 years of Monopoly

391
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:03,400
income we have cop copyrights which have

392
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:06,360
multiplied the income from all forms of

393
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:08,880
these intellectual property soall has

394
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:11,880
been shooting up exponentially so it's

395
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:14,799
taking a vast proportion of total Global

396
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:18,440
income it's it's a parasite on the

397
00:18:14,799 --> 00:18:21,480
process but in addition our governments

398
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:23,919
other governments have been indulging in

399
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,600
beggar my precariat type of fiscal

400
00:18:23,919 --> 00:18:30,320
policy if you follow my meaning by

401
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:32,000
indulging in subsidies huge millions and

402
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,600
millions of pounds are spent by

403
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:37,799
governments in giving Rich corporations

404
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:40,440
and oligarchs subsidies encourage them

405
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:42,840
to come to our country or to stay here

406
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:47,240
or patent the patent box type of you

407
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:50,200
know gift to the winners and these are

408
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:53,000
regressive they are sucking money out of

409
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,520
the ex cheers and every country is

410
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,919
competing on the same sort of thing

411
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,760
raised to the bottom raised to the

412
00:18:55,919 --> 00:19:00,280
bottom but through subsidies the

413
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:04,000
subsidies create part of the government

414
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:06,880
debt so then you have your austerity

415
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,120
logic that we have to reduce debt

416
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,440
because of what happened in the

417
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:14,039
financial crash so they're paying out on

418
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:17,039
subsidies they're paying on tax cuts

419
00:19:14,039 --> 00:19:20,840
corporation tax cuts income tax cuts for

420
00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:22,240
the rich allowances etc etc so they say

421
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,520
well we've got to try and balance the

422
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:27,720
budget so we've got to cut

423
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:31,360
benefits we know where that leads it's a

424
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:35,440
a brilliantly uh uh described

425
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:38,520
context how does the basic income demand

426
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:41,520
fit into this and how can it be afforded

427
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:44,440
and is it just here or everywhere well

428
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,400
very I've been advocating basic income

429
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:49,039
for 30 years for a long time we were

430
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:51,120
regarded as mad bad and dangerous to

431
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:52,720
know in the last couple of years we've

432
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:54,280
suddenly become respectable so I'm

433
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,200
getting a bit worried I get invited on

434
00:19:54,280 --> 00:20:00,640
your programs I should be really worried

435
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:03,720
and and and it's an thing because every

436
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:08,200
single day I get emails and contacts

437
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:11,840
from a wide variety of types from the

438
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,520
left to the far right and I've just been

439
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,400
invited to speak at the world economic

440
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,520
Forum in Davos on basic income you

441
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,080
really made it I've really made it now I

442
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,559
really must look in the mirror and be

443
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:25,559
careful but the situation is this that

444
00:20:23,559 --> 00:20:27,880
income distribution system has broken

445
00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:30,919
down just to give you another couple of

446
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,919
facts to to indicate the problem it used

447
00:20:30,919 --> 00:20:35,600
to be when I was an economic student

448
00:20:32,919 --> 00:20:38,280
that when productivity went up wages

449
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,880
went up but in the last 30 years the

450
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,799
jaws of the snake have been opening

451
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,480
productivity has gone up not very much

452
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:47,080
in some countries but in some quite a

453
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:49,120
lot but wages have been going down used

454
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:52,080
to be the case when profits went up

455
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:55,400
wages went up I know seemed Fair the

456
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:57,480
last 30 years snakes Jaws open used to

457
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,960
be the case when employment went up

458
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,200
wages went up but if you look at the

459
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,919
recent record it's it's the opposite

460
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:08,400
right so this means the system has

461
00:21:03,919 --> 00:21:12,799
broken down okay now what we can see is

462
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:15,640
that we need to revive and create a new

463
00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:19,080
income distribution system for this

464
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:21,960
global capitalism and the way to do it

465
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:25,200
is to do what John Maynard KES said

466
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,960
would happen but he hadn't foreseen the

467
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,640
intellect the intellectual property

468
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,279
rights regime but he said we need to

469
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:35,559
achieve the euthanasia of the

470
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:38,039
rentier put him to death I'm up for that

471
00:21:35,559 --> 00:21:40,760
you are so am I but how do we do it in

472
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:43,480
the 21st century what we've got to do is

473
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:46,799
capture that rent all those forms of

474
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:50,919
rent which are immoral inefficient

475
00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:52,760
distort markets so even on even on a

476
00:21:50,919 --> 00:21:55,640
blatant capitalist line they can't

477
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:58,240
justify it okay you and I would disagree

478
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,919
with with it for different reasons but

479
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:03,400
even on their own grounds they can't

480
00:21:59,919 --> 00:22:06,279
defend this sort of rentier situation

481
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:08,960
and using debts you know securitization

482
00:22:06,279 --> 00:22:11,880
all these fancy gadgets by which the

483
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:14,600
financiers are sucking rental income out

484
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,480
of the precariat they can't justify that

485
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,840
so what we should be doing is working

486
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:23,039
towards a system where you create

487
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,799
Capital funds Sovereign wealth funds

488
00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:26,840
democratically controlled Sovereign

489
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:29,799
wealth funds which a number of countries

490
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:32,640
are moving into to creating and using

491
00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:35,440
those funds to help pay for a basic

492
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:38,240
income that's part of the creation of a

493
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:41,120
new income distribution system you can

494
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:43,840
also roll back the subsidies cutting all

495
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:46,559
those regressive subsidies to help in

496
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:49,279
the funding of a basic income now you

497
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:51,799
said in your introduction and perfectly

498
00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:54,760
fairly that you never fully

499
00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:57,520
understood what it means and you're not

500
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,559
the first person to say that to me what

501
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,559
it means is this

502
00:22:59,559 --> 00:23:04,960
that any good

503
00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:08,760
Society every man every woman and every

504
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:10,320
child should have basic security basic

505
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,679
economic

506
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:16,559
security the best way is the simplest

507
00:23:13,679 --> 00:23:19,600
way to make sure that every

508
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:22,640
individual as a citizen as a legal

509
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:25,240
resident in our country should have a

510
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:28,640
basic income covering their basic

511
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:30,760
needs that means it should be Universal

512
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,880
it should be unconditional in behavioral

513
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,919
terms as long as you obey the law of the

514
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,679
land it should be individual and it

515
00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:41,200
should be Universal in the sense that

516
00:23:38,679 --> 00:23:42,919
everybody has the right to it as a legal

517
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,159
resident it's much better than means

518
00:23:42,919 --> 00:23:48,640
testing which has huge problems as we

519
00:23:45,159 --> 00:23:50,880
know and it's affordable anybody who

520
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,640
says it's not affordable has not been

521
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,760
looking at the figures on rentier

522
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:57,880
capitalism on the subsidies on on the

523
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,679
huge expenditures that that are

524
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:03,279
currently exist with tax credits and

525
00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:05,919
things like that it's affordable and the

526
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:08,360
standard argument that if you gave a

527
00:24:05,919 --> 00:24:10,200
person a basic income they would become

528
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:12,440
lazy they wouldn't work they wouldn't

529
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,679
work we've done pilots in a number of

530
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,799
countries which we've reported in the

531
00:24:14,679 --> 00:24:20,640
books and and in a special book on basic

532
00:24:17,799 --> 00:24:24,320
income shows that people who have basic

533
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:27,080
security work more not less well I know

534
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,880
a lot more now Professor guy standing

535
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,559
thanks for coming on this wouldn't

536
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,039
[Music]

537
00:24:31,559 --> 00:24:35,880
it and now it's your turn to tell us

538
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:38,200
what you think through the portals of

539
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,200
social media what's rling gri so we're

540
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,799
talking economics this week so we asked

541
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:45,640
the people is the world economy on the

542
00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:48,320
edge of a cliff and Linda answers well

543
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:51,399
maybe capitalism has reached its Tipping

544
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,360
Point and our very own Theresa May says

545
00:24:51,399 --> 00:24:54,960
don't worry George I know some nice

546
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:56,039
little places in Panama to keep your

547
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,960
pennies

548
00:24:56,039 --> 00:25:01,799
safe well of course that's uh part of

549
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,440
the rentier issue that Professor

550
00:25:01,799 --> 00:25:07,279
standing was talking about it's not that

551
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:11,440
wealth isn't generated it's that is in

552
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:15,200
the hands of a tiny number of people 64

553
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:18,360
individuals own as much wealth as half

554
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:23,640
of the entire world's population that's

555
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:26,200
64 own more than 4 billion people

556
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,799
mindling mindboggling could make up

557
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,960
that's all the tweets uh we have time

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00:25:27,799 --> 00:25:31,720
for today which alas means that's the

559
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,559
end of the show but you can stay in

560
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,279
touch with us on social media through

561
00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:39,440
Twitter rtor Sputnik on Facebook Sputnik

562
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:42,200
on Russia today it's goodbye from me

563
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:45,440
gatri and from me George Galloway it's

564
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,440
been marvelous

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00:25:54,970 --> 00:25:58,369
[Music]