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okay three I

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[Music]

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gatri

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following the death of Hugo Chavez his

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close friend and Ally Nicholas Maduro

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won both the subsequent presidential

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election and the regional elections held

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late last year since then it's all gone

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wrong a newly energized and well funded

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us back operation is clearly underway on

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the streets of the country real economic

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and social problems are being

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exacerbated and exaggerated and Street

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power is being deployed to delegitimize

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the government for someone my age it's

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all eerily Familiar of the days of the

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original 9/11 this first 911 happened in

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1973 in Chile when the elected president

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Salvador aende was overthrown in a CIA

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backed operation following ende's murder

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the wholesale Slaughter of his

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supporters and a mass Exodus out of the

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country of any democr rats who could get

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out the fascist dictatorship of General

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Pino then Ruled The Roost for the next

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quarter of a century Chile today is

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ruled by a communist Christian Democrat

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Coalition the first supporting the

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government of Venezuela the letter

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supporting the protesters on the streets

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but mercosur an economic and political

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agreement of the South Americas is clear

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about the situation and condemns the

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clear efforts to destabilize the

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democratic government of Venezuela

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joining us to make sense of the streets

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of Caracas is Francisco Domingo of the

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Venezuelan solidarity campaign Francisco

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looking at the news there's a real

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parallel between what's happening uh in

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the Ukraine and Kiev and what's

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happening in Venezuela it looks to me as

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a veteran of these matters like a pretty

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well planned and orchestrated push to

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regime change in both countries is that

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how it looks to you uh not only looks

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that way but actually it's been the by

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the people who are actually organizing

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this uh leopo Lopez the main person

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behind this leading it and Maria K

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Machado an MP of the opposition and

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Antonio Desma who is the elected mayor

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of kakas have said that declar that they

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want they decided to launch a campaign

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called la sala which in Spanish means

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The Ting and um with the proclaim the

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cleare aim to actually remove Maduro

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from office before he ends his mandate

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in 2019

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seem they cannot win the votee because

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they lost as you said correctly in the

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introduction they lost the presidential

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election in April 2013 by 1.5% which was

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close but it was still a win but they

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lost massively the Municipal elections

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on the 8th of December by 12% difference

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it was an unlight and as a result of

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that they came to the conclusion that

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this was not acceptable I think that

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what exacerbated this was the fact that

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Maduro uh um you know with the best of

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intentions in the world in order to uh

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for the good of the country offer them a

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dialogue and several sections of the

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position did responds very positively I

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think these is designed not only to toor

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appeal those possible collaboration and

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conversation and dialogue but also

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perhaps push it enough um hard enough to

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overthrow the government I think that's

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what it is they must have taken a green

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light I expect from Washington for this

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is there any evidence of the United

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States involvement in this there is

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long-term short-term evidence Obama's

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just taken a very hard line saying that

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he's very concerned about the violence

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in Venezuela and demanding that Maduro

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actually goes for a real dialogue I

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don't know what he means by that but you

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know maduro's offer this the real

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dialogue section opposition have

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responded positively and it's only a

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very small minority of people the the

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person who actually lead the uh the uh

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opposition this effort now is called

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Leopold Lopez he is the leader of

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political party called volunt Popular

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the popular will which in the last uh

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Municipal elections got only 6% of the

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vote so there are a significant minority

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within that majority and I don't think

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without the support of the United States

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they would have gone for it and the

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long-term evidence is this um since 2002

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and there is hard evidence about this is

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is public information more or less the

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United States through the national D for

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democracy the international Republican

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Institute the national Democratic

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Institute has given the opposition in

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Venezuela uh $120 million which if were

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one were to translate it into British

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ter that would be $1.2

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billion of money to actually over to

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overthrow destabilize the government of

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Britain I I understand that Lopez has

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given himself in for arrest what's

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what's what's what's about that um well

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he made very I can of put it match

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statements through Twitter that he was

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going to go for confrontation and so on

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everybody was extremely worried he

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called on demonstration he got some

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supporters about 5,000 which is small in

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terms of Venezuelan but it was

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supporters in his district and rather

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than going for a confrontation he not

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give himself in um Maduro later on and

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Di cave you know the two key people in

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the government the president of the

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National Assembly they they said that

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you know they were extremely worried

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about he being a assassinated by the

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right wing in order to cause this

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complication this trouble which will

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justify God knows what else and um so he

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gave himself him man the National Guard

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was surrounding the house all the time

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the house where he was supposed to be in

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hiding protecting him when he came out

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they followed him and protected him all

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the way until he gave himself in and his

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wife Lopez's wife has gone on television

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and he actually uh gave an interview to

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CNN where he confirmed this so thanks to

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the government of Venezuela you know a

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repetition of what happened in 2002

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where God knows who shoot fires CH kill

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people um in order to cause the maximum

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Havoc well and yet the pavlovian

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reaction of some predictable uh sources

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is now being uh played out Amnesty

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International have this week called uh

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for an action across the whole world for

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people to protest to to president Maduro

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about the raid on the opposition

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headquarters as you explain it's a tiny

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fragment of an opposition which is by

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definition in any case a minority of the

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population 6% extremely radical amnesty

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has called on people to protest against

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maduro's arrest of this man uh Lopez how

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steady in the water is the ship of State

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in Venezuela

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when you have the support of the United

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States nothing can be very certain and

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where the full power of the Empire to

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use more precise words to be deployed

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fully against Venezuela God knows what

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will happen that there complication is

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they cannot obtain significant support

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within inside the country to destabilize

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the government enough in order to cause

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trouble the difficulties is that the

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government faces serious economic

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complications and this has got to do

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with inheriting a very difficult economy

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which depends too heavily on oil it's

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got is not Diversified at all and

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because um they're the victim of their

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own success because the government has

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given has done so much redistribution of

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income since 1999 up to now the 60%

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poorest part of the country actually has

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seen their income increase by more than

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500% and because there is no economic

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diversity the result is that people have

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lots of money in their pockets and they

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haven't got things to buy the result the

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government has to import things so the

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the currency becomes very weak and as a

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result of this there is an official

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exchange rate which is 6.30 Biv is and

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there is an Black Market one which is 10

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times that the result is you know all

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sort of complications and people are

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using this deliberately there is

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economic sabotage against the government

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deliberately by sections of the

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rightwing business like they did to

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agenda there is overpricing that is

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holding and in terms of overpricing um

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they discovered the government when they

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went for

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uh inspecting businesses and shops and

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so on big businesses um the overpricing

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went to 100% 200% 1,000% 2,000% there

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was one case of 12,000 per. so the

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moment Maduro began to do this I mean

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immediately the population supported him

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and he said to the opposition he said

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right I want you to discuss this matter

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with me because it's not acceptable and

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many business actually have collaborated

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with the government not Maduro just now

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literally two days ago one day ago

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signed a very good deal with Samsung or

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Samsung you know the electronic Giant

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and out of which Venezuela is going to

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get significant amount of technology and

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computers and so on and madula just

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offered because of this agreement with

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Samsung um a tablet to every single

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University in the country free of charge

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so that give you an idea of the

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potential but also the danger the uh

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comparison I drew in the introduction

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you and I uh both remember it well uh

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this kind of Street power feeding on

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economic and social dissatisfaction with

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the support of the US led to the murder

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of President ayendi and uh tens of

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thousands of others the Exile of

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hundreds of thousands if not millions of

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others at the time the ultra left used

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to demand of president ayendi that he

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armed the people I opposed this demand

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at the time thinking that it would would

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be a provocation that might provoke a

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coup and of course the coup happened

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anyway what steps is President maduru

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taking to defend the gains of the

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Revolution um I mean your reference to

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Chile touches my heart because I'm

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Chilean myself I'm a for an exile so I

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know very well what was done and the

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power that can be deployed in the

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streets by fascist facts is really

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really powerful and can cause Havoc um

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my understanding is that the government

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is using all the legal and

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constitutional mechanisms which are

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totally sufficient as far as they're

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concerned in order to defend the

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Revolution and despite the pressure on

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the Armed Forces despite provocations

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infiltration attempts to bribe some of

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God knows what and the unity of the Arm

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Forces behind the bolivarian

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Constitution is totally solid Melendez

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the commander-in-chief of the Armed

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Forces is a woman

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two days ago she made a statement say

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the Armed Forces will the Bolan armed

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forces in Venezuela will not accept any

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government that doesn't come out from

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the Democratic will of the people so

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that's totally clear there's been not

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one single General officer of any kind

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at any level that actually has expressed

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any um dissent dissatisfaction dis

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Disobedience or anything which means

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that the solidity of the arm Force

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behalf the project which you know Chavez

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00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,480
managed to GV I and crystallized is

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still entire so it seems to me in that

280
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:08,279
sense is totally sufficient the

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complication is that the masses want to

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participate defending the revolution

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organizing peace marches and the thugs

284
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are being organized to set upon them and

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killing some of them I just happened in

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Valencia you know

287
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yesterday well it's a very dangerous

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moment uh not just for Venezuela but for

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all of Latin America because of course

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if such a thing were to happen in

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Venezuela a a repetition of the Chilean

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00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,399
events of 1973 then none of the

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democratic governments in Latin America

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would be safe so we'll have to keep our

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watching brief on that Francisco Domingo

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of the Venezuelan solidarity campaign

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thank you very much for joining us

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coming up after the break his original

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name was little but the shadow that he

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cast has proved long it's the

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anniversary of the assassination of

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Malcolm X

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[Music]

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00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:06,360
welcome back to Sputnik 49 years ago on

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stage in a ballroom in Harlem Malcolm X

306
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:11,240
was gunned down and killed by three

307
00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:14,839
black assassins from the Rival Nation of

308
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:16,800
Islam Malcolm was just 39 years old he

309
00:13:14,839 --> 00:13:19,560
had been a criminal who discovered a

310
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,600
rather exotic offshoot of Islam then

311
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,560
turned to mainstream Islam and had just

312
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,839
begun to reach out to other poor

313
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American communities and to those white

314
00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:30,440
students being radicalized by the war in

315
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Vietnam he his actual name was Malcolm

316
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,519
little but he had the potential to be

317
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truly great and in death he has become

318
00:13:34,519 --> 00:13:38,680
so today we're looking at the great

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Malcolm X with one of Britain's foremost

320
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:44,160
black writers the author and Pana

321
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:47,680
africanist Ona nuia Ona thanks very much

322
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:51,240
for joining us 49 years ago almost

323
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exactly uh Malcolm X was gunned down in

324
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:56,920
rather mysterious circumstances people

325
00:13:53,800 --> 00:14:00,360
went to prison indeed uh the last of the

326
00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:03,120
Assassins was only released in 2010

327
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:06,759
whilst it's obvious to me as a white

328
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:09,600
person that Malcolm could have been a

329
00:14:06,759 --> 00:14:13,680
Mandela figure could have emerged as a

330
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,360
Mandela figure a truly uh world class

331
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:19,800
political

332
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:23,399
operator it is somehow not very safe to

333
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declare yourself an admirer of Malcolm X

334
00:14:23,399 --> 00:14:29,120
whilst Martin Luther King for example

335
00:14:25,959 --> 00:14:31,040
it's kind of uh obligatory to pay your

336
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,639
ects to him why do you think that is

337
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,199
what was that about Malcolm that made

338
00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:37,360
him edgy I mean the first thing is that

339
00:14:35,199 --> 00:14:39,600
Malcolm is one of the most maligned and

340
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,880
misunderstood individuals of the 20th

341
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:45,199
century and now we moving to the 21st

342
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:47,839
century we are aware that there is a

343
00:14:45,199 --> 00:14:50,360
vacancy in terms of such individuals

344
00:14:47,839 --> 00:14:52,399
with such honesty character and

345
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,880
fortitude and to understand Malcolm we

346
00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:56,800
must contextualize him because we cannot

347
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,160
understand him out of context no man is

348
00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,399
can be misunderstood without context Mal

349
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,199
's father was a member of the unia the

350
00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:05,360
universal negro Improvement Association

351
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:07,079
this was the Marcus Garvey organization

352
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,320
it was the largest organization of

353
00:15:07,079 --> 00:15:11,680
Africans um in the diaspora within the

354
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:14,560
history of the 20th or the 21st century

355
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:17,680
it's never spoken about as such right

356
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:21,320
now ear little was um uh first of all a

357
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:23,120
composite organizer and um a well voiced

358
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,560
member of that organization and was

359
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,440
killed probably by the clan or other

360
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,959
members of other organizations whilst in

361
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,480
the pursuit of the gains of that organ

362
00:15:28,959 --> 00:15:31,759
ganization and whilst they had

363
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,600
conservative

364
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:36,959
ideas its appeal to the mass of

365
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,839
African-Americans was far more than most

366
00:15:36,959 --> 00:15:42,440
Marxist or socialist organizations have

367
00:15:38,839 --> 00:15:44,360
been then or since so Malcolm grew up as

368
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:47,800
effectively a garite his mother also was

369
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:50,480
a garite yeah and when um uh growing up

370
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,279
as a garite um he lost his way he became

371
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,120
very confused disenfranchised with

372
00:15:52,279 --> 00:15:57,040
himself in a way dislocated from himself

373
00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:00,360
and took to a life of crime as many

374
00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:03,360
young people did and then received an

375
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:06,079
epiphany um whilst in prison and then

376
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:09,000
joined a Nation of Islam now Malcolm was

377
00:16:06,079 --> 00:16:10,440
already being trained and moved into

378
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,759
that organization through family

379
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,839
connections ell Collins had already

380
00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:16,560
raised money for Elijah Muhammad many

381
00:16:13,839 --> 00:16:18,000
decades before wi L had already um

382
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,560
established a relationship his brothers

383
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,720
Regin and filber had already were moving

384
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,279
towards that movement and then Malcolm

385
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,519
was adopted really as a favored son and

386
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:29,800
became National spokesperson for the

387
00:16:27,519 --> 00:16:31,680
organization and really pushed what was

388
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,680
essentially a conservative organization

389
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,959
into the mainstream of American polit

390
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:38,199
politics and he did this very carefully

391
00:16:35,959 --> 00:16:40,720
and clearly by observing what was

392
00:16:38,199 --> 00:16:42,560
happening in politics and integrating

393
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,199
and offering an alternative perspective

394
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,519
at that point in the 60s the Civil

395
00:16:44,199 --> 00:16:48,440
Rights Movement represented the only

396
00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:50,079
voice and in many ways though we think

397
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,959
of the Civil Rights Movement as rather a

398
00:16:50,079 --> 00:16:54,440
conservative Affair in 1955 it was not

399
00:16:52,959 --> 00:16:56,519
such the Civil Rights Movement was

400
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,240
considered to be quite radical as it

401
00:16:56,519 --> 00:17:00,839
moved forward into the middle part of

402
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:03,079
the 195 towards the 1960s the young

403
00:17:00,839 --> 00:17:04,679
became disenfranchised by it and

404
00:17:03,079 --> 00:17:06,439
immediately a Nation of Islam could see

405
00:17:04,679 --> 00:17:08,640
offering an alternative to that

406
00:17:06,439 --> 00:17:11,039
particular form of conservativism so

407
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,280
Malcolm and Elijah devised a strategy

408
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:15,559
and their strategy was to represent

409
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:18,280
themselves as the radicals to represent

410
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:20,400
themselves as the inverted Comm violent

411
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,000
alternative now that violent alternative

412
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,240
wasn't marked out by any reality Nation

413
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,000
of Islam was not engaged in any violent

414
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,039
activities against the American

415
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,000
government um the nation of Isam was not

416
00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:32,480
involved in any violent killings or

417
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,240
terrorist activities against the

418
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,280
American government it was a rhetoric

419
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,480
that was offered so that that would be

420
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,400
an a if you like a different alternative

421
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,320
to what was happening in the Civil

422
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,640
Rights Movement it was strategy it was

423
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:46,240
methodology it was gamesmanship if you

424
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,320
like however with Malcolm the label

425
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,280
stuck when in fact it would be nothing

426
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,919
more than strategy because we paint the

427
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,760
Nation of Islam or Malcolm as the

428
00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:56,840
violent and a civil rights movement as

429
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,520
in was the nonviolent but in fact it's

430
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,000
not quite as simple as that as I'm sure

431
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,200
you may be aware Robert F Williams for

432
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,080
example in the deacons of defense was a

433
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:09,400
military organization working within the

434
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:11,480
civil rights movement of trained um ex

435
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,559
Vietnam veterans Korean veterans who

436
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,919
were well prepared and willing to

437
00:18:13,559 --> 00:18:17,840
conduct violent activities in defense

438
00:18:15,919 --> 00:18:19,520
and protection of civil rights workers

439
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,320
the deacons of Defense worked from the

440
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,039
beginning from the 50s along with the

441
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,080
Mont government Improvement Association

442
00:18:23,039 --> 00:18:26,200
Along with the southern Christian

443
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,440
leadership conference along with core

444
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,559
along with Snick and within core and

445
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,440
within Snick they had their own military

446
00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:34,440
groups that were working for the defense

447
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,080
of Freedom Riders none of this is going

448
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,840
to be promoted of course because the

449
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,400
Civil Rights M promoted itself as a

450
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,440
nonviolent organization the Nation of

451
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,159
Islam on the other hand was a very

452
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,480
conservative nonviolent organization in

453
00:18:45,159 --> 00:18:48,559
terms of how it operated with the

454
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,159
government Etc but that wasn't an image

455
00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:51,679
that going to be represented either so

456
00:18:50,159 --> 00:18:54,240
what I'm trying to say is that on the

457
00:18:51,679 --> 00:18:56,240
one hand we got malcol as the violent

458
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,840
demog and on the other we've got Martin

459
00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,240
Luther King as the nonviolent innocent

460
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:04,400
saint but in fact in neither case is

461
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:06,880
such idea based on any kind of reality

462
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,840
so this perception that we have of both

463
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,320
individuals is actually quite wrong but

464
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,480
in our often polarized perspective we're

465
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,360
looking for a God and then we're looking

466
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,720
for a devil and unfortunately Malcolm

467
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:20,520
falls into the devil but it's a false uh

468
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:23,440
d That's the uh the the point once upon

469
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:25,440
a time I I asked Fidel Castro who had

470
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,880
been telling me this remarkable story of

471
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,520
how Malcolm had guarded him in the

472
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,960
Theresa Hotel

473
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,159
Harlem when theban revolutionary

474
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:37,720
leadership had been thrown out of their

475
00:19:34,159 --> 00:19:39,440
hotel Inon Avenue I asked him he told me

476
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,159
some wonderful stories which we don't

477
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,360
have time to go into about Malcolm and

478
00:19:42,159 --> 00:19:46,760
so actually it was triggered by the

479
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:49,880
sight of Bill Clinton out jogging in a

480
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:51,640
Malcolm X baseball capat indeed it's 92

481
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,919
or 93 or something like that Fidel

482
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,880
stopped dead the CNN was on in the

483
00:19:53,919 --> 00:19:58,080
corner he stopped dead and saw when he

484
00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:00,120
saw the American president with the mark

485
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,480
EX cap and he made the point that he

486
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,159
never thought that the day would ever

487
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:06,360
come when a US president so I finally I

488
00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:08,600
asked him so what did you think of

489
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:12,039
Malcolm and Fidel Castro one of the

490
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:14,760
world's most edgy dangerous men said

491
00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:17,480
Malcolm was a very great man yes but he

492
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,679
was a little dangerous yes uh but he

493
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,159
meant it as a compliment of course if

494
00:20:19,679 --> 00:20:23,960
Malcolm had

495
00:20:21,159 --> 00:20:26,280
lived and of course this is

496
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:28,240
speculation how different would the

497
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,159
situation of black people and the

498
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,960
relationship ship between black people

499
00:20:30,159 --> 00:20:33,880
and others in the United States have

500
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:37,039
been well M the important thing is in

501
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:39,039
the between the 1955 to about 1974 a

502
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:40,600
whole generation of young people both

503
00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:42,480
black and white were removed from the

504
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,640
American scene um we could start with

505
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,320
Edgar Myers Martin Luther King um

506
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:50,280
Malcolm X the Black Panthers um huy P

507
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,120
Newton um Bobby he goes on and on the

508
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,840
list of individuals that remov Fred

509
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:57,720
Hampton George Jackson a whole um a

510
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,400
whole rafter of individuals um working

511
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,600
um on all levels to removed this

512
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,320
generation of people um would have made

513
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,720
not only America but the whole world a

514
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,200
very very very very different place so

515
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,960
we have to look at this thing not only

516
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,559
as an individual thing but a question of

517
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,120
social engineering there was a fear that

518
00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:15,760
this generation of young people some as

519
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:17,720
young as 16 or 17 highly politicized

520
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,279
highly intelligent and highly articulate

521
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,960
were very dangerous so to remove this

522
00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:25,679
whole generation of people which Malcolm

523
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:27,720
X was a part very young 39 when he died

524
00:21:25,679 --> 00:21:29,279
yes in his 20s when he's active this

525
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,640
this this whole gener of people was very

526
00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:32,919
dangerous because they would then

527
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,400
represent if you like the mainstream of

528
00:21:32,919 --> 00:21:37,600
ideological thought and there's always

529
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,320
the um the concern that that sort of

530
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,559
politics being in the mainstream On The

531
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:44,159
Fringe on the edge of society is

532
00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:45,799
acceptable to a certain extent because

533
00:21:44,159 --> 00:21:47,120
then you can always demonize them but if

534
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:49,600
you have these individuals as the

535
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,080
mainstream of political thought and that

536
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,559
political thought that mainstream

537
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,400
political thought is radicalized and

538
00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:56,159
revolutionized then that becomes very

539
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,039
dangerous to the whole way in which

540
00:21:56,159 --> 00:21:59,559
Western Society operates or people may

541
00:21:58,039 --> 00:22:01,039
feel that way in which Western Society

542
00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:02,600
operates so that's why Malcolm had to be

543
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:05,080
removed it was when he was

544
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,679
internationalizing the situation and

545
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:10,159
internationalizing so well that he was

546
00:22:07,679 --> 00:22:12,559
Gunn down um and people say oh it was a

547
00:22:10,159 --> 00:22:14,320
nation no no he says we must take his

548
00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:17,159
word for it that this is beyond the

549
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:19,279
nation in his own words and he's no fool

550
00:22:17,159 --> 00:22:21,559
he's no idiot he says it's beyond the

551
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:23,480
nation yes why he was being removed when

552
00:22:21,559 --> 00:22:26,320
he was meeting quami and Kuma and

553
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:28,679
secretary in Africa and then his whistle

554
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:32,000
top tour around North Africa and then

555
00:22:28,679 --> 00:22:34,559
Ben B EXA he was internationalizing and

556
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,799
he was crossing class and Crossing

557
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:39,640
ethnic uh boundaries inside the United

558
00:22:37,799 --> 00:22:41,279
States and it was his ability to be able

559
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,440
to show relationships between these

560
00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:44,320
different struggles that made him

561
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,600
particularly dangerous at a time when

562
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,720
America was presenting itself as a

563
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,200
democratic voice and face of the world

564
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,080
he was able to show no actually in your

565
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,520
back door you're doing this to 20 odd

566
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,679
million people that you've denied rights

567
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,159
to for the last two or 3 hundred years

568
00:22:55,679 --> 00:23:00,400
this was very very frightening and very

569
00:22:57,159 --> 00:23:02,600
dangerous to a country purporting itself

570
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,000
as the representation of the Divine and

571
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,840
perfect upon the face of the Earth are

572
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,559
you saying that the Civil Right Movement

573
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,200
at the time was unable to see that well

574
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:11,799
I think but even when we say that we

575
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,799
must be careful because Paul Robson even

576
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:15,960
in the 50s understood the power of the

577
00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:17,520
United Nations and even he was

578
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,320
petitioning and this is really the

579
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,480
Forerunner of the Civil Rights Movement

580
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,240
so what I'm saying is that Malcolm by

581
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,720
the time he left the nation by 62 or 63

582
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,720
he was already thinking how he can work

583
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,520
with the Civil Rights Movement I think

584
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,360
he saw himself as being separate but as

585
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,480
being part of a more concerted effort

586
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:36,559
and that made him dangerous when he was

587
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,440
opposed to it from a strategic

588
00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:40,240
perspective or political perspective

589
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,559
that therefore he could be marginalized

590
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,679
but when he was willing to work with

591
00:23:41,559 --> 00:23:45,440
whomever he was willing to work with in

592
00:23:43,679 --> 00:23:46,880
order to get the job done that made him

593
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,640
very dangerous because then it wasn't

594
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,880
ideology that was governing his thought

595
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,760
process but strategy and Method and

596
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:56,960
that's different well we lost Malcolm

597
00:23:52,760 --> 00:24:01,120
but we got Barack Obama on thank you

598
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,120
very much indeed for joining us on the

599
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,760
Sputnik now it's your turn through

600
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:09,279
social media to tell us what you're

601
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,880
thinking not much time uh gri so give me

602
00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:15,320
your best couple I found this picture on

603
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:17,760
on Twitter which portrays Leopoldo Lopez

604
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,480
the opposition leader as an economist

605
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,720
Professor medal winning athlete and even

606
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:25,120
descendant of Simon bolar versus

607
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:28,600
Nicholas Maduro the president as just a

608
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:31,559
bus driver which is so despicable to

609
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,919
which Clive Griffin responds Jesus was a

610
00:24:31,559 --> 00:24:35,799
carpenter Prophet Muhammad was a shepher

611
00:24:33,919 --> 00:24:37,679
shepherd and a merchant follow

612
00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:39,720
inspirational leaders not career

613
00:24:37,679 --> 00:24:41,799
politicians it's very good actually I

614
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,159
knew Nicholas Maduro when he was a bus

615
00:24:41,799 --> 00:24:47,159
driver and it's one of the greatest

616
00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:49,840
qualifications that he has that he was

617
00:24:47,159 --> 00:24:51,960
an industrial worker who's now become

618
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,240
the president of the Republic how great

619
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,440
could Malcolm X have become to which

620
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:59,000
paully walnut's response he could have

621
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,880
rivaled Mandela in being a symbol

622
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,840
he was killed because of his Rising

623
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:08,440
appeal globally if you think about it he

624
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:11,159
was 39 when he died he might have lived

625
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:15,000
and been politically active for another

626
00:25:11,159 --> 00:25:17,960
40 years oh at least like yeah maybe 50

627
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,960
years and he would have developed his

628
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,640
Fame and worldwide reach would have

629
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,120
developed everything could have been

630
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,440
different it might have been him in the

631
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:27,919
white house instead of instead of OB

632
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,320
Obama indeed well that's all we've got

633
00:25:27,919 --> 00:25:31,919
time for which unfortunately means

634
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,120
that's the end of the show you know how

635
00:25:31,919 --> 00:25:37,360
to reach us on Twitter at _ Sputnik and

636
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:40,159
on Facebook you can find us on Sputnik

637
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,960
on Russia today goodbye from me G and

638
00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:43,230
from me George Galloway it's been

639
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:49,219
marvelous

640
00:25:43,230 --> 00:25:49,219
[Music]

641
00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:57,619
[Music]