1 00:00:02,009 --> 00:00:07,200 [Music] 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,480 I 3 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:40,800 welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 4 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:43,000 with me George Galloway and me gri no 5 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,559 apologies for returning to the Ukraine 6 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:48,120 after all it seems as we predicted last 7 00:00:45,559 --> 00:00:50,160 week to have plunged us into the cold 8 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,239 bath of Cold War rhetoric with the 9 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:55,600 temperature reaching Cuba Missile Crisis 10 00:00:52,239 --> 00:00:57,399 depths Beyond iron or even satar 11 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,199 countries which have themselves 12 00:00:57,399 --> 00:01:01,160 slaughtered more than a million people 13 00:00:59,199 --> 00:01:03,600 over the last few years years invading 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:06,400 and occupying country after country 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,520 thousands of miles off their Shores 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:12,320 denouncing Russian actions which haven't 17 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:14,479 cost a single life on their own doorstep 18 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:16,640 Beyond what's about ISM however the 19 00:01:14,479 --> 00:01:19,159 mainstream media who are eager to find 20 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:21,119 signs of bias in others hardly gives 21 00:01:19,159 --> 00:01:23,040 mention to the ultra nationalist 22 00:01:21,119 --> 00:01:25,200 Neo-Nazi parties on the streets of 23 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,799 Ukraine and even in some Ministries in 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:30,479 the new us and EU backed interim 25 00:01:27,799 --> 00:01:33,520 government indeed if you are only news 26 00:01:30,479 --> 00:01:35,520 source was Western media you wouldn't 27 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,240 even know that there had been a leaked 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:41,240 audio of a phone call between Britain's 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,320 EU representative baroness Ashton and 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:46,159 the Estonian foreign minister in which 31 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:48,880 the latter suggests very clearly that it 32 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:50,840 was people acting for this very interim 33 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,600 government in Kiev who killed the 34 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:56,640 protesters and the police in maidan in a 35 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:59,399 false flag operation that the mainstream 36 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,360 media doesn't mention it is why Sputnik 37 00:01:59,399 --> 00:02:02,119 exists 38 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,560 and we're orbiting the worldall to give 39 00:02:02,119 --> 00:02:06,680 you the details missed by the mainstream 40 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:09,000 and let me make this clear what you get 41 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,640 from the Sputnik is our view of the 42 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:14,080 truth as we see it and no blowdried 43 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:16,959 autoq speak your weight machine should 44 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,560 ever persuade you otherwise helping us 45 00:02:16,959 --> 00:02:21,120 make sense of the week's events on the 46 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:24,519 Eastern front will be regular RT talking 47 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:26,680 head Alexander mercuris But First gatri 48 00:02:24,519 --> 00:02:29,080 with her red gloves and snow on her 49 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:32,120 boots took to the Streets of London to 50 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,319 take the temperature out there I don't 51 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,400 know enough about the situation in 52 00:02:33,319 --> 00:02:39,680 Ukraine but I reckon if we had our Fleet 53 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,680 the British Fleet that was on somebody 54 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,440 else's Sovereign territory and it looked 55 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:46,680 like that country was in a state of flux 56 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:49,599 and possibly could bring in a a 57 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,680 government which was Pro some other 58 00:02:49,599 --> 00:02:53,120 power or against our power block then we 59 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,000 might well be considering going in there 60 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,080 to protect our interest so it's all 61 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,360 about power politics and I'm not sure 62 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,599 there's a right entirely a right and 63 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,840 wrong nobody wants to see a sovereign 64 00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:03,480 state actually invaded and that has 65 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,760 happened so it's wrong do you think it's 66 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,080 going to be a big war well uh no I don't 67 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:10,680 think so no no Russia is too clever for 68 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,840 that yeah I'm too strong but I'm for 69 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,200 Putin are you and why do you think what 70 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,519 do you think about the language then 71 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:21,080 about from Cameron and Obama about uh 72 00:03:17,519 --> 00:03:23,560 economic sanctions and boycotting SOI 73 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:26,760 well what uh why don't anybody else put 74 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:30,879 sanction on UK and United States when 75 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:32,879 they would commit War crime in uh Iraq 76 00:03:30,879 --> 00:03:34,680 well this is this is double a standard 77 00:03:32,879 --> 00:03:36,560 isn't it I don't think anyone should be 78 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,080 saber rattling and least of all the 79 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,720 Russians so if you produce aggressive 80 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,640 behavior going to produce aggressive 81 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,519 behavior in the alternative so nobody 82 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,200 should be aggressives nobody should be 83 00:03:44,519 --> 00:03:49,280 let to people to decide through 84 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,280 Democratic and peaceful 85 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:54,760 processes Alexander let's start with 86 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:57,560 what I think is the biggest story of the 87 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:00,159 week and many weeks uh for that matter 88 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:02,840 I've spent my whole life ridiculing 89 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:06,079 conspiracy theorists I almost never 90 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:08,720 believe them MH here we have on the face 91 00:04:06,079 --> 00:04:11,799 of it evidence in this telepone call 92 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:14,120 between the Estonian Diplomat and the 93 00:04:11,799 --> 00:04:17,759 head of the European Union's foreign uh 94 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:21,079 policy director baroness Ashton in which 95 00:04:17,759 --> 00:04:25,080 it is quite calmly discussed that the 96 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:28,000 massacre of 22 police and more than 50 97 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:31,039 demonstrators on the maidan may very 98 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:34,120 well have been a carefully staged 99 00:04:31,039 --> 00:04:37,240 provocation organized not by The 100 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:39,639 yanukovich Tyranny as John Kerry 101 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:42,440 describes it but by the very people now 102 00:04:39,639 --> 00:04:44,960 in power in KF what's your take on that 103 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:47,240 well if anybody followed the situation 104 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,080 in KF carefully they would know that 105 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,960 there were some very dangerous people 106 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:54,400 there at right sector Mr Yarosh who is 107 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,759 their leader and these are very violent 108 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,960 very dangerous people entirely capable 109 00:04:56,759 --> 00:05:02,160 of doing these things and they have a 110 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:05,199 fascistic Neo-Nazi in fact let's call it 111 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:07,240 Nazi ideology so it is entirely 112 00:05:05,199 --> 00:05:10,080 predictable that they would behave in 113 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:13,600 this way the remarkable thing about that 114 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:15,479 telephone conversation is that these two 115 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,759 very senior officials of the European 116 00:05:15,479 --> 00:05:21,160 Union an Estonian foreign minister and 117 00:05:18,759 --> 00:05:23,440 the foreign affairs minister if you like 118 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:26,319 of the European commission calmly 119 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,560 discuss this question and then move on 120 00:05:26,319 --> 00:05:30,160 to other topics well actually if you go 121 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,520 to YouTube and watch this very 122 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,120 conversation there's a Content warning 123 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,560 saying that this may be inappropriate 124 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:38,840 for some users certainly highly 125 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:41,479 inappropriate uh to be fair I thought 126 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:43,840 that baroness Ashton sounded shocked 127 00:05:41,479 --> 00:05:46,280 ConEd surprised but she's done nothing 128 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:49,240 about it absolutely and this footage has 129 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:52,479 yet to appear on the British 130 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,479 state-owned BBC absolutely and it's been 131 00:05:52,479 --> 00:05:56,880 barely reported apparently the United 132 00:05:54,479 --> 00:05:59,319 States and the only comment the American 133 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,759 government can make is to complain about 134 00:05:59,319 --> 00:06:03,280 the people people who have leaked it for 135 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:05,880 the weeks previously policemen had been 136 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:08,080 set on fire there had been beatings and 137 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,800 so on there was a lot of uh uh rough 138 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:14,199 stuff yes but a massacre there had not 139 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:16,800 been suddenly there was a massacre and 140 00:06:14,199 --> 00:06:19,120 the dogs of war were Unleashed are you 141 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,880 really saying that these thuggish 142 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,440 fascistic paramilitaries have the 143 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,440 sophistication to carry out such an 144 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:30,400 operation because I'm wondering if it's 145 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:32,639 not someone uh with a a bit more uh 146 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,759 expertise and experience in this kind of 147 00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:36,400 thing well who knows at this moment in 148 00:06:34,759 --> 00:06:39,000 time we don't know enough about all of 149 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:41,599 this it's entirely possible if we look 150 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,599 for example at an analogous situation 151 00:06:41,599 --> 00:06:45,400 which is Syria we see how 152 00:06:43,599 --> 00:06:48,720 extraordinarily violent and dangerous 153 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:51,520 people have been used in Syria by some 154 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,599 of the same forces the same powers in 155 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,240 the world that are now taking such a 156 00:06:53,599 --> 00:06:58,479 great interest in the Ukraine so it is 157 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,319 entirely possible that people who did 158 00:06:58,479 --> 00:07:02,639 this sort of thing in Syria could do 159 00:07:00,319 --> 00:07:04,280 this thing in the Ukraine as well I want 160 00:07:02,639 --> 00:07:07,800 to just come back to this point you were 161 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:11,919 making we the real crisis in the Ukraine 162 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:14,720 is not in the Crimea it is in Kiev that 163 00:07:11,919 --> 00:07:17,080 is where the epicenter of this is that 164 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,520 is where aou took place using 165 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:22,759 extraordinary violence lots of people 166 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:24,720 were killed up to now in the Crimea no 167 00:07:22,759 --> 00:07:26,960 one has been killed at all the Crimean 168 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:30,919 Parliament has voted unanimously to join 169 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:32,960 Russia a referendum is being uh arranged 170 00:07:30,919 --> 00:07:36,560 what happens though in eastern Ukraine 171 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:39,560 where 47% of the people are either 172 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:42,160 ethnic Russians or Russian speakers uh 173 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:44,800 and where uh the kind of political 174 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,520 forces on the streets in Kiev are not 175 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,479 particularly to their taste no they're 176 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,199 not and this is really I think the Slow 177 00:07:48,479 --> 00:07:54,000 Burn fuse if you look at an awful lot of 178 00:07:51,199 --> 00:07:56,240 the western commentary not not the 179 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,720 really loud rhetoric but the 180 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,039 undercurrent that goes beneath it is the 181 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,960 eastern Ukraine that they're really 182 00:08:00,039 --> 00:08:04,759 frightened of because if that blows or 183 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,080 or or if the Russians intervene there 184 00:08:04,759 --> 00:08:09,680 which they might they said they would do 185 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:12,240 if their people were actually threatened 186 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:14,560 then frankly the West faces an 187 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:17,560 extraordinary crisis and conceivably 188 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:20,800 humiliation as well well Simon Jenkins 189 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:23,840 the uh the veteran and rather right-wing 190 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:26,479 uh commentator was making the point in 191 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:29,560 the newspapers this week that the 192 00:08:26,479 --> 00:08:32,440 principal weapon at the disposal of 193 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,719 pipsqueaks like William heg and uh David 194 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:38,279 Cameron would be to stop Russian 195 00:08:34,719 --> 00:08:42,479 oligarchs coming to buy stuff 196 00:08:38,279 --> 00:08:44,440 in uh I I I myself could live with that 197 00:08:42,479 --> 00:08:46,399 I think I think I think I think Mr Putin 198 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,680 would be very pleased actually if you 199 00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:49,640 actually look at what he was talking 200 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:52,399 about over the last couple of years it's 201 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,880 actually about relocating Russian wealth 202 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:57,200 back to Russia um if we're talking about 203 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,200 economic sanctions well there might be 204 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,480 some the chances are probably there will 205 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,959 be token but we'll have to see today 206 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:06,519 whatever happens they have to talk to 207 00:09:03,959 --> 00:09:09,399 Russia Russia is too big it's too 208 00:09:06,519 --> 00:09:12,040 important in this world not to talk to 209 00:09:09,399 --> 00:09:14,680 so we will see an awful lot of noise the 210 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,720 crime I think is lost to the Ukraine I 211 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:19,000 think everybody knows that they don't 212 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:22,600 want to say it publicly but that's the 213 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:24,839 real situation and now the whole game if 214 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:27,480 you like is to try and hold what's left 215 00:09:24,839 --> 00:09:29,200 of the Ukraine together and they realize 216 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,120 that they need the Russians help to do 217 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,959 that yes but the people they've 218 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:36,800 appointed I mean they've appointed two 219 00:09:32,959 --> 00:09:40,040 oligarchs worth $1 billion between them 220 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:43,880 to be uh the governors of these two 221 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:46,519 great parts of the Eastern region and 222 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:48,519 they have put into the intelligence 223 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:51,399 Ministry the defense Ministry the Prime 224 00:09:48,519 --> 00:09:54,839 ministere Minister Deputy Prime Minister 225 00:09:51,399 --> 00:09:58,920 uh is a fascist and out fascist with 226 00:09:54,839 --> 00:10:00,120 swastika on his sleeve uh that can't 227 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,440 possibly 228 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,560 play with Russia it wouldn't play in the 229 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:08,440 west if the West actually reported it if 230 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:10,079 if it were seen on our TV the Deputy 231 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:13,360 Prime Minister of the new Ukraine with 232 00:10:10,079 --> 00:10:15,720 his swasa on his arm it wouldn't play 233 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,320 here that's why we don't see it isn't it 234 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,240 absolutely which is precisely why um all 235 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,040 this is 236 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:24,160 being stopped people don't talk about it 237 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,800 they talk about completely other things 238 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,200 about the fact that it was a democratic 239 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,440 Revolution and all the rest and they 240 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,160 don't talk about the foreign Ministry 241 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,160 the for the Estonian foreign minister 242 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,279 and Caroline Ashton's conversation 243 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,720 either because it goes completely 244 00:10:36,279 --> 00:10:42,120 against the narrative but to come back 245 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:45,279 to your your point it's absolutely clear 246 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:47,279 that the present regime in Kiev I don't 247 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:50,399 call it a government I call it a regime 248 00:10:47,279 --> 00:10:52,600 it's self-appointed is not acceptable to 249 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:56,200 the Russians they made that absolutely 250 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:59,600 clear up to now what the West has to do 251 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:01,880 to to sort that problem out I don't know 252 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:04,320 is going to try I think well we're going 253 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,480 to throw money no well they're meeting 254 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,279 they're meeting now for us Summit on 255 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,200 Ukraine hug sums of money which have 256 00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:12,680 miraculously appeared fromwhere which 257 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,839 weren't available for member states like 258 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:17,680 Greece indeed are suddenly apparently 259 00:11:14,839 --> 00:11:20,360 available well apparently because in 260 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:22,440 fact when you unpeel it it's not clear 261 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:25,279 how much money actually is on the table 262 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:27,600 Mr kery went to Kiev and all he could 263 00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:28,959 offer was $1 billion in loan guarantees 264 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,040 that's not money that's actually loan 265 00:11:28,959 --> 00:11:34,240 guarant anes the simple fact is the 266 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:37,519 Ukraine is bankrupt it's running out of 267 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:41,519 money fast its gas reserves are 268 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:44,000 extremely low and on the 1 of April the 269 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:48,959 gas discount which the Russians granted 270 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:52,000 is going away this is a major problem 271 00:11:48,959 --> 00:11:54,040 for the Europeans and if they're going 272 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,040 to get the you you Russians and the 273 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,360 ukrainians talking to each other which 274 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,760 is what the Europeans are saying then 275 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,040 they're going to have to do something 276 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:05,120 about who is running this the shop in 277 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:07,200 Kiev Alexander murus thanks uh uh I'm 278 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,600 not sure if we'll do Ukraine next week 279 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,560 as we have the last three but we might 280 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,320 have to coming up after the break former 281 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:15,560 British labor cabinet minister Brian 282 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,680 Wilson on why the breakup of this 283 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:21,720 particular small country would be a bad 284 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:21,720 idea don't miss it 285 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,680 welcome back to Sputnik my next guest 286 00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:36,880 has been a personal friend of mine for 287 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:38,639 fully 40 years notwithstanding some 288 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,920 pretty serious political disagreements 289 00:12:38,639 --> 00:12:43,199 along the way but one thing we do agree 290 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:45,560 about is that breaking up a small 291 00:12:43,199 --> 00:12:47,320 English-speaking country come September 292 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:50,440 would not be in the interests of working 293 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:53,240 people on either side of any new border 294 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,360 between Scotland and England he and I 295 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,480 are about to set off on tour it's like 296 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,920 the Rolling Stones Getting Back Together 297 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:02,160 complete with tour bus but no sex no 298 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:04,560 drugs no rock and roll asking the 299 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,160 Scottish people to just say no to 300 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:09,040 separatism but before we do gatri asked 301 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,959 the people of London what they thought 302 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,399 of the idea of Scotland leaving them 303 00:13:11,959 --> 00:13:15,680 when it comes to Scottish 304 00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:17,160 independence I'm I'm not I don't I 305 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:19,120 wouldn't mind at all I mean you know I 306 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,440 think it's really up to them in terms of 307 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,680 their decisions and their aspirations in 308 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,440 relation to decisions that they're going 309 00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:26,800 to be making no I don't think Scotland 310 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:29,639 should need the UK part they're part of 311 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,760 the United Kingdom I prefer to stay 312 00:13:29,639 --> 00:13:33,800 with the UK I think they' be foolish to 313 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,920 go no no I don't reckon they should 314 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:38,800 leave no they're they're very important 315 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,120 to the English culture as well you know 316 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,360 can you imagine why so many Scots a thir 317 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:46,880 it's quite a lot who that they would 318 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:50,759 wish to leave the UK national pride 319 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:52,279 that's purely simple national pride you 320 00:13:50,759 --> 00:13:54,240 any country wants national pride that's 321 00:13:52,279 --> 00:13:55,880 one point England doesn't have because 322 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,240 of political correctness of national 323 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:00,120 pride which class is incorrec be 324 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,600 patriotic want to be independent they're 325 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,959 crazy they'll go 326 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,360 broke mother's Pride you can eat 327 00:14:04,959 --> 00:14:09,000 national pride I don't think you can eat 328 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,600 we'll come back to that point none of 329 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,920 these people on the Streets of London 330 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,160 have got a vote in this do you think 331 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:18,399 first of all that the basis of this 332 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:21,680 referendum uh is correct is fair I mean 333 00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:24,079 why should the 800,000 Scottish people 334 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:26,440 who have to work in London and the rest 335 00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:27,680 of England not have a say in this I 336 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,759 think that's the the least of the 337 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,639 problems I I you have to draw a line 338 00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:33,680 somewhere of of who can vote and people 339 00:14:31,639 --> 00:14:35,880 register to vote in Scotland if if you 340 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,720 accept the premise that Scotland has a 341 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,560 right to decide as opposed to the the UK 342 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,279 as a whole making a decision and this 343 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,360 then I think you have to take the the 344 00:14:42,279 --> 00:14:47,360 people who who are are registered to 345 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,680 vote in Scotland as the the the the as 346 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,560 the elector the electorate now the polls 347 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:55,639 are uh are a little bit volatile they 348 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:58,440 show uh a lead for the no side what's 349 00:14:55,639 --> 00:15:00,160 your reading of the trajectory of 350 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,959 Scottish public public opinion if if you 351 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,360 look at this historically for the last 352 00:15:01,959 --> 00:15:06,959 30 40 years you know it hasn't changed 353 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:09,160 very much there's always 30 odd perc I 354 00:15:06,959 --> 00:15:10,639 mean I think the the first question to 355 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,800 ask is this the question people in 356 00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:15,639 Scotland are most interested in being 357 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,079 asked because there's because Scottish 358 00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:19,120 politics for so long now has been 359 00:15:17,079 --> 00:15:20,920 focusing this constitutional issue and 360 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,040 the question are being asked it's almost 361 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,839 inevitable you're going to get a you 362 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,680 know that that kind of proportion of 363 00:15:24,839 --> 00:15:28,480 people who when there's only are two 364 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,560 answers available but you're going to 365 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,639 get that kind of of division on the on 366 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:35,240 the on the Constitution how much of that 367 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:36,639 30% are actually preoccupied with it 368 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,079 however how many people would say it's a 369 00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:41,880 number one priority to you know to to 370 00:15:39,079 --> 00:15:43,600 put a border across the our small island 371 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,240 that's another question but if you ask 372 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,079 for a yes no on that question then I I 373 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,639 think you know it doesn't surprise me it 374 00:15:48,079 --> 00:15:54,279 comes out at 30 odd perent saying yes 375 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:56,839 and it is volatile that the the the um I 376 00:15:54,279 --> 00:15:59,079 suppose the the dream scenario for the 377 00:15:56,839 --> 00:16:00,240 national is is that come September it 378 00:15:59,079 --> 00:16:02,000 would look likely there was going to be 379 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,360 another Tory government and then they 380 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,040 would present it not as a as a a 381 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,839 Scotland versus the union thing but 382 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,480 Scotland versus the the the Tories and 383 00:16:08,839 --> 00:16:12,360 they you know there is a market for that 384 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,720 to appeal to as well and that is why 385 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:17,920 it's very important to to make not just 386 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:20,000 a a a a constitutional argument or this 387 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,920 or an economic argument but actually to 388 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,639 make a solidarity argument about the the 389 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,279 shared interests of people in in in 390 00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:29,279 Scotland and England is it all about as 391 00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:31,240 that lad outside the shop said just just 392 00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:32,639 national pride it's something to do with 393 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,120 national it's something to do with 394 00:16:32,639 --> 00:16:36,600 identity but you know I think that the 395 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,639 danger is when it's when identity 396 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,880 becomes what motivates your politics and 397 00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:43,880 you've lost sight of much much bigger 398 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:46,600 issues and H particularly the dangers of 399 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:48,240 losing shared interests which people in 400 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,199 Glasgow or Edinburgh have exactly the 401 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:53,720 same interest as people in in London or 402 00:16:50,199 --> 00:16:55,560 in Liverpool or or Newcastle and 403 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,120 probably with a breakdown of the 404 00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,360 organized labor movement with you know 405 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,240 that there's l of that kind of feeling 406 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,759 of solidarity and therefore if unless 407 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,280 you keep making the arguments and the 408 00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:08,760 danger is something else FS the fills 409 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,600 the vacuum and for so long now this has 410 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,520 been going on as we both know for 411 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,000 decades but if you've got somebody who's 412 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,559 constantly telling people who are poor 413 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:20,439 or disadvantaged in in Scotland but the 414 00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:23,280 reason for this is not the economic 415 00:17:20,439 --> 00:17:25,240 system and the the balance of forces 416 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,360 with within the UK as a whole but it is 417 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,799 a sort of Scotland England divide it's a 418 00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:31,919 Westminster Scotland divide if you if 419 00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:33,360 everything is painted in these terms 420 00:17:31,919 --> 00:17:35,559 then of course there's going to be some 421 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:37,160 kind of market for that so you always 422 00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:39,960 have to have someone telling the counter 423 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:42,000 story that actually the you know people 424 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,039 with more poverty within the you know 425 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,960 within a 20 mile radius of of 426 00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:49,160 Westminster and there is probably in the 427 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:51,160 whole of of of Scotland it's it's a 428 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,640 shared issu it's a shared problems and 429 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,159 if we all you would end up with and this 430 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,080 is not one right-wing government you'd 431 00:17:55,159 --> 00:17:58,880 end up with two rightwing government Ian 432 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,720 Scotland won't be free of the tourist 433 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,679 will it if it becomes independent it 434 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,919 will be forever under the Tories because 435 00:18:02,679 --> 00:18:06,799 the Tories will rule at Westminster and 436 00:18:04,919 --> 00:18:09,400 they'll control the currency that the 437 00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:11,520 independence party wants to continue to 438 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,880 use I've always thought it was a 439 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,000 dangerous line of arguments and there's 440 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,720 no Tories in Scotland I've lived in 441 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,760 Scotland all my life of course there's 442 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,600 Tories in Scotland but what has happened 443 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,960 is as the Tories became a more 444 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,080 discredited brand in Scotland then more 445 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,919 and more of that vote found Refuge 446 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,799 somewhere else and nationalism up to a 447 00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:31,799 certain point is a very convenient place 448 00:18:29,799 --> 00:18:34,039 to find it I mean the heartlands of 449 00:18:31,799 --> 00:18:36,159 nationalism are not you know the the 450 00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:38,720 work among the working classes of of 451 00:18:36,159 --> 00:18:42,320 Glasgow or lanar Shire the heartlands 452 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:45,679 are Angus and Perth and the northeast of 453 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,080 B Buck the traditional Tory strongholds 454 00:18:45,679 --> 00:18:48,520 in Scotland and that's where the Tory 455 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,520 vote has crumbled and that's where the 456 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,480 strength came from and the trick of 457 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,960 nationalism wherever it arises is is 458 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,919 essentially to be a chameleon it will be 459 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:59,159 whatever people want it to be in any 460 00:18:56,919 --> 00:19:00,840 given place at any given time so if you 461 00:18:59,159 --> 00:19:03,440 think you've got the kind of the you 462 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,280 know the sort of reactionary heartlands 463 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,679 sewing up then you turn the rhetoric 464 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,600 towards the the the other parts of 465 00:19:07,679 --> 00:19:11,679 Scotland who want to hear more different 466 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,360 messages Social Democratic messages we 467 00:19:11,679 --> 00:19:15,559 can be more leftwing we can be more 468 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:18,840 Progressive in Scotland than we can in 469 00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:20,840 the in in in in the UK as a whole and 470 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,679 but then you go back you know which is 471 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,400 what we must do more of just now is say 472 00:19:22,679 --> 00:19:26,120 well don't you there's no need to look 473 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,720 in the crystal ball read the book and 474 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:29,679 see what they're doing in Scotland they 475 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,679 have the power to make a social change 476 00:19:29,679 --> 00:19:32,760 they have the power to be 477 00:19:30,679 --> 00:19:34,520 redistributionist in in Scotland at 478 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,159 present under Devolution and none of 479 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,159 that is is happening when we we have a 480 00:19:36,159 --> 00:19:40,400 center right government in Scotland a 481 00:19:38,159 --> 00:19:42,559 Tory government in in Westminster and we 482 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:45,480 would carry on there there's absolutely 483 00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:47,320 no a priori reason to think that that an 484 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,200 independent Scotland would be any more 485 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,919 Progressive than a devolved Scotland is 486 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:54,039 at the present time Brian I I think I 487 00:19:51,919 --> 00:19:55,919 agree with you that identity plays a big 488 00:19:54,039 --> 00:19:58,760 role in in the current debate in 489 00:19:55,919 --> 00:20:00,440 Scotland and that uh the whole obsession 490 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:05,080 about the Scottish identity the whole 491 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:07,080 Braveheart um um play uh misses the 492 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:10,440 actual points and that you're right that 493 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:12,280 um there might be even worse of without 494 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:15,000 out of the UK yeah do you think that 495 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:17,200 it's a small group however that is 496 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,880 leading this identity campaign or is it 497 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,600 widespread throughout Scotland well I 498 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,360 think you know identity is strong in 499 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:26,200 Scotland I'm I feel Scottish of course I 500 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:28,400 I feel I feel Scottish but I don't I 501 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:31,240 don't it doesn't dominate my thinking I 502 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,720 mean live in the outer herdes of of of 503 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,799 Scotland you know I feel a much greater 504 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,840 affinity for that part of Scotland than 505 00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:39,720 I do for Scotland per se you know I 506 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,039 think most of us carry multiple 507 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,760 identities and we don't find any 508 00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:45,480 difficulty in having multiple identities 509 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,400 the permiss thing about nationalism is 510 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,799 it makes you choose between identities 511 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,400 so the vast majority of people in 512 00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:52,840 Scotland are very comfortable being 513 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:55,320 Scottish being British being dundonian 514 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,600 being European being heidan being 515 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,320 whatever whatever you may be but the 516 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,240 thing that nationalism does is try to 517 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,840 turn you against one of these identities 518 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,679 and to make you choose where there's no 519 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,159 need for a choice to be made because 520 00:21:04,679 --> 00:21:10,880 until someone presents that to you then 521 00:21:07,159 --> 00:21:14,120 you can quite happily accommodate not 522 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:16,200 just je dichotomy the braveart Mel 523 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:18,799 Gibson was an Australian uh making a 524 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,960 Hollywood movie about a war between two 525 00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:24,960 french- speaking Kings with Scottish 526 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:26,600 people fighting on both sides I said 527 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,880 recently I mean it you may not agree 528 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:31,840 you're actually rather more of a Scot 529 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,760 figure than me I'm not remotely 530 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:37,000 interested in 531 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:42,320 1314 I'm only interested in 532 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:45,720 2014 and uh and uh Beyond um but it's 533 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:47,720 it's not gatri a small group uh as 534 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,039 someone active on social media I can 535 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:52,320 tell you there are thousands and 536 00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:56,039 thousands of these people buzzing around 537 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,559 like Hornets ready to sting anyone with 538 00:21:56,039 --> 00:21:59,480 they running this campaign yeah yeah but 539 00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:02,679 the the accusation is that you're not 540 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:06,080 Scottish if you are against Independence 541 00:22:02,679 --> 00:22:07,799 that you're a Tory if you are against uh 542 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,919 Independence this going to Poison the 543 00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:11,840 Well for a long time to come Brian yeah 544 00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:13,880 I I think the well is poisoned you know 545 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,679 I think that the saddest thing I mean 546 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,480 I'm looking back over a lifetime almost 547 00:22:15,679 --> 00:22:19,799 that you know that you're the sadness is 548 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,880 that the radicalism of Scottish politics 549 00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:26,240 has been dissipated really on this 550 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:27,520 pointless debate you know that now all a 551 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,120 you know if you look what's going on in 552 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,320 in in Scotland just now that there's 553 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:33,120 been regression on the you know the 554 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,159 attack on child poverty which did 555 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,400 actually you know a lot of progress was 556 00:22:35,159 --> 00:22:39,360 made in the in the labor years you see 557 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,039 local Authority budgets been cut in the 558 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:42,600 services and poor that poor people 559 00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:44,520 depend on but all of that is 560 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,080 subordinated now to this this Con 561 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,960 constitutional debate and the entirely 562 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,559 false narrative that all you have to do 563 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,720 is to change the Constitution and all of 564 00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:55,600 these social issues somehow disappear 565 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,279 whereas as I say there's not a shred of 566 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,279 evidence of that from what is actually 567 00:22:57,279 --> 00:23:03,080 happening in in Scotland at the at at at 568 00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:05,039 the present time but ultimately you know 569 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,279 I it probably is the economy that will 570 00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:09,919 will will de decide it and the more 571 00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:12,279 people realize it I mean we we have 300 572 00:23:09,919 --> 00:23:13,799 years of to become an integrated economy 573 00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:15,640 there are many success stories in 574 00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:17,520 Scotland but to a large extent their 575 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,640 success stories because we are part of 576 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:22,480 the bigger U UK economy you know we we 577 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,279 have tens of thousands of jobs and 578 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,240 financial services in Edinburgh but we 579 00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:29,120 only have that because we're part of the 580 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,840 same entity as the as 581 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:34,120 as as the one we're s we're sitting in 582 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:36,799 just now so the more the the economic 583 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:38,880 reality strikes home and yeah I do think 584 00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:40,640 that the that that Independence will be 585 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,760 defeated but I also agree with you the 586 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:46,039 well will be further poisoned because 587 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,400 we're having the wrong debate and it the 588 00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:51,760 wrong issues and it is going to leave 589 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,640 inevitably a sense of well I don't know 590 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,320 disappointment would be the the least of 591 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:59,360 it I think uh people can catch us on 592 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:02,080 tour just say no you can uh follow me on 593 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:04,600 social media or go to just say no uh 594 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:07,880 website for details of that Brian Wilson 595 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,880 thanks very much for joining me thank 596 00:24:08,159 --> 00:24:13,720 you now it's your turn to tell us what 597 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:16,000 you think in the social media review and 598 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,200 Roundup Guy what's rattling well you 599 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,400 recall John kery saying that in the 21st 600 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,600 century you just don't behave in a 19th 601 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,600 century fashion by invading another 602 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:28,679 country on completely uh trumped up 603 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:31,120 pretext CLA Rob responds to that oh Mr 604 00:24:28,679 --> 00:24:34,440 Kerry you should really think before you 605 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:37,200 open your mouth po calling kettle black 606 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:40,399 the point that she's making is the point 607 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,000 of the week isn't it that John kery and 608 00:24:40,399 --> 00:24:44,840 for that matter William Hagen David 609 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:50,080 Cameron seemed to 610 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:53,320 have no trace of irony in their voices 611 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:57,200 as they thundered about a bloodless 612 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:59,039 intervention permitted by treaty between 613 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,279 Russia and the Ukraine 614 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:05,240 and backed unanimously by the Crimean 615 00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:06,960 Parliament and likely backed in a mass 616 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:10,960 referendum they keep talking about the 617 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:12,600 need for democracy in Ukraine when it's 618 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,200 the democratic government that was 619 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,520 overthrown by Street power and violence 620 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,840 on Scotland Helen says that well let 621 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,120 them go I say see how long it takes them 622 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,919 to come crawling back they will need us 623 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:26,279 before we need them no that that's 624 00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:29,600 entirely the wrong attitude uh and 625 00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:32,279 that's likely to assist the separatist 626 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,399 uh forces we need each other we're 627 00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:36,840 better off with each other well that's 628 00:25:34,399 --> 00:25:38,679 it for this week then which alas means 629 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,520 that's the end of the show you can keep 630 00:25:38,679 --> 00:25:42,840 in touch with us on Twitter at _ Sputnik 631 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,000 and on Facebook you can find us on 632 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,679 Sputnik on Russia Today that's goodbye 633 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:51,080 for me gri and from me George Galloway 634 00:25:47,679 --> 00:25:51,080 it's been marvelous 635 00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:57,589 [Music] 636 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:04,049 oh 637 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,049 [Music]