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welcome back to Sputnik the chilcott

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inquiry into Britain's involvement in

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the disastrous invasion of Iraq began

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four whole years ago and heard its last

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witness two years ago but since then

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silence the Dogg at chilcott refuses to

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publish unless we can see what he's

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already seen of the telephone and other

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electronic traffic between former Prime

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Minister Tony Blair and George W bush 10

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Downing Street simply refuses and Under

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Pressure blams the White House for its

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refusal I went down to as Road in London

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a mainly Arab area and I asked the

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people there how they feel about the

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refusal well let's take a look even if

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they put it published well they remove

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the most important Keys maybe without

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being anybody knows and even if the

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public knows now everything has gone 10

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years now like about everything you know

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because I think you know it's like a

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gamey play as we they doing with us in

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Egypt as well you know because I don't

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think they care about the people they

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care about themselves we can't find the

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two no way it's difficult to find the

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two the two it mean to take America to

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the court that's all her war against

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this he not

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allowed our next guest the right

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honorable David Davis PC MP almost was

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the leader of the conservative party if

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he had been I'd be sitting here now

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interviewing him in Downing Street they

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chose the wrong man alas but he's still

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a real power in the land and a power in

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Parliament which explains why he's got

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this fantastic office by the river temps

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I wanted to talk to him about the impass

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over the chilcott inquiry David Davis

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thanks for joining us on Sputnik I

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described the

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membership of the chil Cott enquiry as a

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parade of establishment flunkies who

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were likely to throw the case against

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the Blair and brown governments uh on

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the war it seems I may have been wrong

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they've stuck at their task quite

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doggedly haven't they yes they have and

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uh chilcott I mean you you might have

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had some reason because he's been

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involved in all the establishment

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inquiries down the years uh and he's

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been a very Trusted Man by the British

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establishment but but he's he's been

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very honest and determined about this

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and I think it's determination actually

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that counts more than anything else so

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yeah I think when they eventually get it

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published it will be a Humdinger of a

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report but there's a big question mark

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over the way for all the great

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achievements that you have you're not

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really a part of the British

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establishment but you know it um so why

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is the establishment proving so

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difficult over the issue of the

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documents that chil Cott says he needs

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before he can publish after all this is

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deeply embarrassing to set up A7 million

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pound public inquiry and then have it

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unable to publish its report because of

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what will be seen in the country in the

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world as a coverup yeah that's

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absolutely right and the when you

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started out down the route of having an

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inquiry like this it is assumed they

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will see all of the secret information

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and publish that which they think is

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necessary the whole point of having

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someone like chilcott in charge of the

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inquiry is he is the sort of person you

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think the establishment trust to make

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decisions on what ought to be able to be

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put in the public domain so it's an

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assumption right at the beginning that

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you can publish things that affected the

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decision on the war and that includes

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things like conversations between Tony

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Blair and his cabinet between the

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various ministers between Tony Blair and

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the Allies most notably George Bush so

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those were all written into the remit on

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day one so what's happened is all of a

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sudden the various members of St for

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different reasons I think are hiding

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behind a whole series of conventions

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which once they normally apply shouldn't

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apply to an inquiry into a war the

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permanent secretary who is in the name

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of the cabinet one presumes blocking the

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release of these documents in the report

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was of course the uh right-and man of Mr

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Blair at the time of the war is he

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covering up for Mr Blair or covering up

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for himself or is he just exercising

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some sympathy for people he was near at

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the time we actually don't know but the

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simple truth is that under normal

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circumstances the British government

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someone like that would be excluded from

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the decision you if you're a minister

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and somebody brings you a decision which

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relates to your personal interest you

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give it to somebody else to make the

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decision you don't make it yourself you

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don't you know let's say I had a farm

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and there was a decision made about my

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farm I was wouldn't be allowed to make

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it i' get somebody else to do and this

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is this is more than a farm this is the

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whole farm that uh that uh Haywood is

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making this decision over so he

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shouldn't be allowed to make decision

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that's the first thing to say secondly

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the rules he's using he's talking about

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you know we we can't expose

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conversations between heads of

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government and so on well if you if

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you're not going to expose those rules

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why did you start this in the first

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place because you cannot understand why

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a war starts unless you hear

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the views of decision makers so you've

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got both the motive the man and the

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excuse all wrong every single part of

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this is wrong now you got your ear

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pretty close to the ground what do you

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think in the correspondence and the

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record of telephone calls that are being

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refused well I don't know what's in but

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what what I do know is the questions

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they have to answer why they sensitive I

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mean firstly did Tony Blair give

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undertakings

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before he came to Parliament in other

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words that he commit Britain before

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Parliament uh had its say because in

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this day and age as you and I uh uh took

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a part in over the Syrian episode in

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this day and age Parliament is now

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accepted has to decide not on Wars that

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are reactions to being invaded But

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discretionary Wars this Wars that you

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decide on has to be done by Parliament

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now if Blair made the decision

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beforehand that's acutely embarrassing

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both for Blair and his whole government

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and of course for the Americans uh

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secondly uh well just before you go on

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that would mean that they had lied to

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the house of course yeah well which a

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hanging uh offense in this place is a

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hanging

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offense metaphorically speaking yes we

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don't do hanging in Britain anymore I

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know the killing of Tony blow is an

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interest to you but but uh but so

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metaphorically that is a hanging offense

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uh secondly of course there's the other

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possible light of the house which is the

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basis of the evidence what is now known

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in Britain as the dodgey dossier the the

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intelligence reports which were put

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together in a sort of glossed up uh

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pamphlet uh implying that uh Saddam had

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weapons of mass destruction which were a

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threat to Britain I mean there was this

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idea of he could Marshall them at 45

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minutes notice considerable and hit our

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bases in cypess hit our bases and so on

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so all of those things but they two lies

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straight away you know then there are

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questions of the acttion execution of

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the war I mean I know from my own

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experience and contacts uh around the

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British military establishment that in

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the runup to the war there were serious

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concerns amongst the British officer

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class if you like about how we were

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proposing to deal with the day after the

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conflict you know what was going to

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happen to the rebuilding of uh of Iraq

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what was going to happen to the

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government of Iraq what was going to

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happen to make sure that the Iraqi

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people did not suffer as in that they

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ended up suffering the huge post-war

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traumas now that was an area where

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clearly some decisions must or should

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have been made and one presumes must

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have been made how were those decisions

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made how did we go into a war without

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knowing what the outcome will be so

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there's a whole series of very very

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embarrassing questions to answer I don't

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know the answer to those questions but I

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suspect since we've run into this brick

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wall I suspect they're not the ones that

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Mr Blair would like to see now you are a

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former military man you are a former

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minister in the foreign office you have

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occupied commanding Heights in British

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government and you're still a pretty

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heavyweight senior guy how therefore

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would you calibrate how would you

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describe the scale of the foreign policy

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disaster in my view and in the view of

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the great majority of people The

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Invasion and occupation of Iraq it's one

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of the biggest

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postwar disasters um I mean I voted for

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it let's understand it's right up front

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I voted for it because I was told and I

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believed the prime minister of to day

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one assumes the Prime Minister doesn't

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lie to the House of Commons that this

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was a strategic necessity that it was a

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threat that we had to deal with it we

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were lied to on that I'm quite sure that

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was not true so um so it's a massive

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mistake and it's colored all sorts of

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it's colored our entire relationship

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with the Muslim world uh and the Middle

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East destabilized an important part A

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massively important part of the Middle

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East it's caused most of all it's caused

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huge numbers of deaths uh huge numbers

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of deaths and uh all those things and to

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no real purpose I mean there is a a mild

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purpose but not a not a not a purpose

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that justifies that sort of uh um wides

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widescale killing so it's a major major

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uh mistake much worse than sews which

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was viewed a huge strategic error

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previous that led to the fall of a prime

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minister resignation of prime minister

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so a huge mistake and one which will

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color British foreign policy and I think

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American foreign policy for a very very

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long time into the future killed

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something else too didn't it it killed

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the essential credibility of the

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political class in Britain and in the

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United States since Iraq very few people

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believe what they're told officially uh

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Claude Coburn in the 1930s once said

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that nothing is true and until it's been

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officially denied uh nowadays most

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people don't really believe and this is

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not a party point I know you're a

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conservative uh but nobody again

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there'll be no glad confident morning

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again yeah there's always been a healthy

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suspicion in Britain of the political

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class and I rather approve of that

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frankly but uh it's it's it's killed

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even the political class's own belief in

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itself I mean again to to come back to

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the Syrian debate which we both took

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part in one of the reasons that our side

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the anti-war side one was because nobody

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was willing to take on trust a simple

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statement from the government that this

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was necessary you know the cloud of Iraq

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hung over that whole debate it

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completely colored the the the the whole

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debate and and as a result we decided in

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my view the right decision we decided

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not to do anything and indeed actually

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for Britain not to legitimize an

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American assault which is what it was

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really about and and truthfully actually

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uh AR involvement in Iraq I know we

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committed soldiers and I know we had

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hundreds of deaths um and we had some

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material defeats as well in terms of our

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military strategy but what we were doing

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was

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legitimizing uh an American attack um

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and I think that whole concept of

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Britain being the people who say well

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this isn't just a bit of American

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imperialism this is a really necessary

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action um is gone completely gone David

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Davis thanks for joining us on Sputnik

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my pleasure

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wow they'll certainly be watching that

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interview more than once in Downing

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Street this weekend now this is the

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point in the show where we listen to

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your voices gatri what's hot on the

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internet uh a lot of people have of

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course sent us uh congratulations for

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our very first show last week they liked

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the guest they lik the debate they like

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your jacket and they like the set so and

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did they like what we had to say yes

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well done well done very much uh edmon

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Dante says for example the news show

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Sputnik is a breath of reality in a

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world of misinformation can't wait to

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see more thanks RT excellent people also

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tweeted us about the JFK SS Nations and

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they were

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overwhelmingly skeptic Lana Del he says

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because they are guilty of war crimes

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and they know it they're desperately

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ducking for coverer Jonathan Smith in my

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opinion Oswalt wasn't involved in the

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shooting he was the Psy was right-wing

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conspiracy to murder a liberal president

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well unfortunately that's it for this

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week but remember keep in touch with us

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on Twitter at rtor Sputnik it's goodbye

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for me gatri and from me it's been

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marvelous

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[Music]