1 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,910 welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 2 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,970 with me George Galloway and me gayathri 3 00:00:39,910 --> 00:00:45,280 the giant port city of karachi 4 00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:48,070 pakistan's largest is locked down and at 5 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,110 a standstill vehicles are burning the 6 00:00:48,070 --> 00:00:54,100 British consular under siege its 7 00:00:50,110 --> 00:00:57,339 diplomats disappeared to Dubai and all 8 00:00:54,100 --> 00:01:00,100 over a British man from edgware on the 9 00:00:57,339 --> 00:01:01,900 outskirts of London Altaf Hussain was 10 00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:04,509 arrested this week by London's 11 00:01:01,900 --> 00:01:07,119 Metropolitan Police after a long-running 12 00:01:04,509 --> 00:01:09,549 inquiry which involves a strange death 13 00:01:07,119 --> 00:01:11,680 and piles of unaccounted for money 14 00:01:09,549 --> 00:01:14,590 Hussein is not being held for murder 15 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,810 though rather like Al Capone on charges 16 00:01:14,590 --> 00:01:19,119 of money laundering the murder inquiry 17 00:01:16,810 --> 00:01:21,579 is continuing all tough and his 18 00:01:19,119 --> 00:01:23,950 supporters however fiercely deny any 19 00:01:21,579 --> 00:01:27,400 wrongdoing on his part some years ago 20 00:01:23,950 --> 00:01:29,560 alone I can promise you in Parliament I 21 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:32,170 raised of mr. Blair's government some 22 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:36,670 trenchant questions about out of Hussein 23 00:01:32,170 --> 00:01:40,840 here's a clip of what I said then why is 24 00:01:36,670 --> 00:01:44,530 out of Hussein being allowed from a sofa 25 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:47,649 in edgware to conduct a terrorist 26 00:01:44,530 --> 00:01:52,149 campaign and a campaign of extortion of 27 00:01:47,649 --> 00:01:55,359 businesses and citizens in Sindh and why 28 00:01:52,149 --> 00:01:57,100 was he given British citizenship I want 29 00:01:55,359 --> 00:01:58,959 to ask the minister tonight and if he 30 00:01:57,100 --> 00:02:02,139 doesn't have the answer to hand I would 31 00:01:58,959 --> 00:02:04,869 like him to write to me and tell me the 32 00:02:02,139 --> 00:02:07,749 answer to this question was Altaf 33 00:02:04,869 --> 00:02:10,450 Hussain ever refused British citizenship 34 00:02:07,749 --> 00:02:13,240 and if he was refused British 35 00:02:10,450 --> 00:02:16,120 citizenship what changed between that 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:19,450 refusal and the Granton or citizenship 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:21,730 to him it is an extraordinary thing 38 00:02:19,450 --> 00:02:24,940 madam Deputy Speaker in the middle of a 39 00:02:21,730 --> 00:02:28,480 so-called war on terror that a bloody 40 00:02:24,940 --> 00:02:31,420 reign of terror any major Pakistani city 41 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,600 and there are millions of Pakistanis 42 00:02:31,420 --> 00:02:37,360 were citizens of our own country a 43 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,960 terrorist cell is operating from edge 44 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,410 well 45 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:44,800 in the form of the MQM every day out of 46 00:02:41,410 --> 00:02:47,500 loose any British citizen addresses his 47 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,480 puppets in Karachi giving them 48 00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:51,490 instructions on how they should govern 49 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:54,520 including how they should handle 50 00:02:51,490 --> 00:02:56,770 peaceful demonstrations well I think I 51 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:59,050 look younger now than I did then joining 52 00:02:56,770 --> 00:03:02,290 us now to discuss the backdrop to this 53 00:02:59,050 --> 00:03:05,500 week's extraordinary events is barrister 54 00:03:02,290 --> 00:03:08,320 Asha jameel I'm glad to see barrister 55 00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:10,570 Asha thanks for coming on the show thank 56 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:13,840 you for having me yeah just before we go 57 00:03:10,570 --> 00:03:15,400 into outer force in and the arrest give 58 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,220 us the backdrop with you because many 59 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:20,410 British viewers will be rather puzzled 60 00:03:18,220 --> 00:03:23,110 as to why this is all happening who this 61 00:03:20,410 --> 00:03:26,140 man is what he stands for and the rest 62 00:03:23,110 --> 00:03:29,890 tell us about the MQM who they represent 63 00:03:26,140 --> 00:03:31,750 what their demands are well George MQM 64 00:03:29,890 --> 00:03:34,450 is perhaps the fourth largest party in 65 00:03:31,750 --> 00:03:37,090 Pakistan at the moment it was formed 66 00:03:34,450 --> 00:03:40,330 some time ago by altaf was saying 67 00:03:37,090 --> 00:03:44,410 initially whilst he was a student and 68 00:03:40,330 --> 00:03:47,020 then it became what was known as the MQM 69 00:03:44,410 --> 00:03:49,450 matata call me mute movement what other 70 00:03:47,020 --> 00:03:52,270 means United initially it was mohajer 71 00:03:49,450 --> 00:03:54,430 call me movement and that really was 72 00:03:52,270 --> 00:03:56,680 formed initially for those who had 73 00:03:54,430 --> 00:03:59,380 emigrated to Pakistan from India South 74 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:02,350 Asia Bangladesh and they were all do 75 00:03:59,380 --> 00:04:04,750 speaking initially was a party to give a 76 00:04:02,350 --> 00:04:07,420 voice to those who they felt had been 77 00:04:04,750 --> 00:04:09,760 trampled upon and were discriminated 78 00:04:07,420 --> 00:04:13,300 against and that's how the party 79 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:16,410 initially formed over the years it has 80 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:18,370 levered a lot of power in Karachi 81 00:04:16,410 --> 00:04:20,400 particularly that's where it's more 82 00:04:18,370 --> 00:04:25,390 prominent because that's where the 83 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:27,220 Mahars emigrated to and a lot of people 84 00:04:25,390 --> 00:04:29,830 have said that they wield far too much 85 00:04:27,220 --> 00:04:34,390 power and there are rogue elements of 86 00:04:29,830 --> 00:04:36,850 that party which has caused terrorism in 87 00:04:34,390 --> 00:04:40,840 the city of course these allegations 88 00:04:36,850 --> 00:04:42,210 which are denied by the MQM but in 1992 89 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:44,950 there was an operation called Operation 90 00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:48,160 cleanup it resulted in the arrest of 91 00:04:44,950 --> 00:04:49,900 several senior MQM leaders in the 92 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,940 country there were a number of 93 00:04:49,900 --> 00:04:53,590 allegations made against 94 00:04:51,940 --> 00:04:57,430 al dhafra sane and there was a warrant 95 00:04:53,590 --> 00:04:59,410 out for a murder against him also and at 96 00:04:57,430 --> 00:05:01,990 that point he fled the country and he 97 00:04:59,410 --> 00:05:05,020 obtained a political asylum in the UK 98 00:05:01,990 --> 00:05:08,140 interestingly in 2002 he was given a 99 00:05:05,020 --> 00:05:10,120 British passport under what was 100 00:05:08,140 --> 00:05:13,300 considered now when it was investigated 101 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,910 to be a clerical error so how it can be 102 00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:17,440 a clerical error I'm not quite sure but 103 00:05:14,910 --> 00:05:20,170 one thing which recently came to light 104 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:24,150 is that whilst Tony Blair was in 105 00:05:20,170 --> 00:05:27,250 government a couple of weeks after 911 106 00:05:24,150 --> 00:05:30,010 al Dolph was sane or the MQM had written 107 00:05:27,250 --> 00:05:32,650 a letter to that administration Tony 108 00:05:30,010 --> 00:05:37,750 Blair's government and said that we have 109 00:05:32,650 --> 00:05:39,790 unlimited resources to curb um you know 110 00:05:37,750 --> 00:05:42,970 to have demonstrations bring people out 111 00:05:39,790 --> 00:05:45,630 in the street we we have you know we 112 00:05:42,970 --> 00:05:47,950 would encourage you to disband the isi 113 00:05:45,630 --> 00:05:50,980 ISI of course is the intelligence 114 00:05:47,950 --> 00:05:54,280 service in Pakistan one thing's clear he 115 00:05:50,980 --> 00:05:56,950 addresses from London from edgware from 116 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:59,560 his sofa that I talked about there in 117 00:05:56,950 --> 00:06:02,890 Parliament he addresses his followers in 118 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:05,230 Pakistan over television live television 119 00:06:02,890 --> 00:06:08,320 broadcast to them and it's pretty 120 00:06:05,230 --> 00:06:10,210 blood-curdling stuff isn't it well 121 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,190 there's been a number of speeches and 122 00:06:10,210 --> 00:06:14,050 he's got away with them so far because 123 00:06:12,190 --> 00:06:18,640 they're just on the peripherals just on 124 00:06:14,050 --> 00:06:20,800 the edge you know in May last year 12 125 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:23,860 over 12,000 people complained to the 126 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:26,440 police they made a report saying he has 127 00:06:23,860 --> 00:06:29,130 incited violence and the terrorism acts 128 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:31,150 you must arrest him and that's when the 129 00:06:29,130 --> 00:06:32,560 investigation kicked off around about 130 00:06:31,150 --> 00:06:35,260 the same time as together you remember 131 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:37,600 you you instructed my firm hkh Ken 132 00:06:35,260 --> 00:06:39,490 riding solicitors to see whether 133 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,590 there were avenues that could be pursued 134 00:06:39,490 --> 00:06:45,040 in terms of either a civil action or a 135 00:06:41,590 --> 00:06:47,100 private prosecution but it seems after 136 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,330 those complaints were made the police 137 00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:51,640 got into action of course there was 138 00:06:49,330 --> 00:06:55,810 always the ongoing inquiry in relation 139 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:58,210 to the murder case of dr imran farooq dr 140 00:06:55,810 --> 00:07:00,520 imran farooq was murdered here in London 141 00:06:58,210 --> 00:07:02,080 he was one of the leaders of the MQM 142 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,689 there seems to have been some kind of 143 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:07,599 falling-out and these days 144 00:07:04,689 --> 00:07:10,679 the inquiry is ongoing so we better not 145 00:07:07,599 --> 00:07:14,649 go too far down the Avenue but I did 146 00:07:10,679 --> 00:07:16,929 instruct you to bring a private 147 00:07:14,649 --> 00:07:19,749 prosecution I said to the government and 148 00:07:16,929 --> 00:07:21,849 to Scotland Yard to the prosecuting 149 00:07:19,749 --> 00:07:24,849 authorities either you prosecute this 150 00:07:21,849 --> 00:07:27,399 man or I'll bring a private prosecution 151 00:07:24,849 --> 00:07:29,889 it then became clear to me that the 152 00:07:27,399 --> 00:07:34,209 investigation into Altaf Hussain was 153 00:07:29,889 --> 00:07:37,509 sufficiently serious to make me wait and 154 00:07:34,209 --> 00:07:39,969 now they have arrested him tell us what 155 00:07:37,509 --> 00:07:41,589 happened this week well you see around 156 00:07:39,969 --> 00:07:43,479 about the time you instructed us in fact 157 00:07:41,589 --> 00:07:45,309 the police kicked into action there was 158 00:07:43,479 --> 00:07:47,069 a raid last year in almost a year ago 159 00:07:45,309 --> 00:07:50,769 now in june twelfth of june Austrian 160 00:07:47,069 --> 00:07:53,589 alte oper scenes house so inquiries had 161 00:07:50,769 --> 00:07:55,869 been ongoing now there are probably four 162 00:07:53,589 --> 00:07:57,899 different avenues of possible criminal 163 00:07:55,869 --> 00:08:01,119 activity there's a murder investigation 164 00:07:57,899 --> 00:08:03,819 there's the incitement the speeches he 165 00:08:01,119 --> 00:08:06,249 makes the hate speeches in Karachi talks 166 00:08:03,819 --> 00:08:09,459 about the prepare body bags for so and 167 00:08:06,249 --> 00:08:12,849 so he did a speech in 2009 saying to me 168 00:08:09,459 --> 00:08:15,279 12th of May 2012 was the tenth of our 169 00:08:12,849 --> 00:08:17,499 speech against PTI workers saying if you 170 00:08:15,279 --> 00:08:19,449 come out as a variance party that is 171 00:08:17,499 --> 00:08:21,819 indeed it if you come out in protest I 172 00:08:19,449 --> 00:08:23,439 don't blame me if I unleash my followers 173 00:08:21,819 --> 00:08:25,659 on you but you say I don't think there 174 00:08:23,439 --> 00:08:27,069 was enough really to successfully 175 00:08:25,659 --> 00:08:28,659 convicted front of your jewelry with 176 00:08:27,069 --> 00:08:31,389 those speeches but they're still being 177 00:08:28,659 --> 00:08:34,120 looked into and then there's the money 178 00:08:31,389 --> 00:08:36,009 laundering because during the course of 179 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,949 the investigation the counterterrorism a 180 00:08:36,009 --> 00:08:42,789 unit in fact engaged with the murder 181 00:08:38,949 --> 00:08:45,699 inquiry and in the course of that cash 182 00:08:42,789 --> 00:08:47,680 was recovered sizable sums over half a 183 00:08:45,699 --> 00:08:50,759 million in total from multiple scenes 184 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:53,439 personal residence and also from the MQM 185 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:56,829 secretarial offices which are in edgware 186 00:08:53,439 --> 00:08:58,360 so that is the case upon which the 187 00:08:56,829 --> 00:09:00,430 police have the most evidence at the 188 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,819 moment and that's the case under which 189 00:09:00,430 --> 00:09:06,100 they arrested him this week and the 190 00:09:03,819 --> 00:09:07,180 fourth of course is tax evasion because 191 00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:10,420 you know they have a number of 192 00:09:07,180 --> 00:09:13,269 properties as all this cash and where 193 00:09:10,420 --> 00:09:14,829 has it come from now in relation to the 194 00:09:13,269 --> 00:09:17,370 money laundering we're told officing 195 00:09:14,829 --> 00:09:19,740 will no doubt do is 196 00:09:17,370 --> 00:09:20,940 if he is charged and he hasn't yet been 197 00:09:19,740 --> 00:09:24,480 charged because he's ended up in 198 00:09:20,940 --> 00:09:26,370 hospital and I know well he hasn't been 199 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,400 well I think he did have an appointment 200 00:09:26,370 --> 00:09:31,470 already but yes it's so it's difficult 201 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,060 for the police to interview him but she 202 00:09:31,470 --> 00:09:35,339 is no doubt going to say this as money 203 00:09:33,060 --> 00:09:36,930 which was given to me by donators 204 00:09:35,339 --> 00:09:38,730 because there were thousands of MQM 205 00:09:36,930 --> 00:09:40,740 followers and I'm sure they are all step 206 00:09:38,730 --> 00:09:42,180 forward saying we made donations but it 207 00:09:40,740 --> 00:09:44,339 still has to be accounted for it should 208 00:09:42,180 --> 00:09:45,839 have been put in bank accounts tax you 209 00:09:44,339 --> 00:09:47,670 know these all issues but you will have 210 00:09:45,839 --> 00:09:49,740 to deal with so how did the political 211 00:09:47,670 --> 00:09:51,900 class in in Pakistan respond to his 212 00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:54,600 arrest well is it's very interesting 213 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:57,990 actually because um Imran Khan had last 214 00:09:54,600 --> 00:10:01,529 year accused Oh toughest thing of the 215 00:09:57,990 --> 00:10:05,460 merger of a very senior PTI leader Zara 216 00:10:01,529 --> 00:10:08,100 Hussein and just this week he made a 217 00:10:05,460 --> 00:10:10,740 statement saying I had my differences 218 00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:12,480 without officing but I have a great deal 219 00:10:10,740 --> 00:10:14,670 of sympathy for the MQM supporters 220 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,460 whether he's done that to win over the 221 00:10:14,670 --> 00:10:19,560 MQM supporters or you know because he is 222 00:10:17,460 --> 00:10:21,570 running scared because it is potentially 223 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:23,910 very volatile time with the arrest of a 224 00:10:21,570 --> 00:10:26,279 huge leader there are masses who follow 225 00:10:23,910 --> 00:10:28,709 him in karachi karachi is in lockdown 226 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:30,570 you know it's closed down people cannot 227 00:10:28,709 --> 00:10:32,370 go to their exams shops offices 228 00:10:30,570 --> 00:10:35,310 businesses are closed people are too 229 00:10:32,370 --> 00:10:37,740 scared to come out into the streets n qm 230 00:10:35,310 --> 00:10:39,630 did make an announcement saying karachi 231 00:10:37,740 --> 00:10:41,940 should resume it should now open up but 232 00:10:39,630 --> 00:10:44,279 we will continue RM sit-ins and 233 00:10:41,940 --> 00:10:45,660 demonstrations those demonstrations are 234 00:10:44,279 --> 00:10:47,279 going to have no effect in Britain 235 00:10:45,660 --> 00:10:50,010 because this is an independent 236 00:10:47,279 --> 00:10:52,529 investigation well he's British of his 237 00:10:50,010 --> 00:10:56,430 own choice how he became British still a 238 00:10:52,529 --> 00:11:00,510 matter of conjecture and and controversy 239 00:10:56,430 --> 00:11:02,160 he's British the crime alleged happened 240 00:11:00,510 --> 00:11:04,500 in Britain and the British justice 241 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:07,520 system will deal with them it's nothing 242 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:10,370 to do with a big crowd in in Karachi 243 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:15,620 what about the Government of Pakistan 244 00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:19,440 Nawaz Sharif presumably seeing a rival 245 00:11:15,620 --> 00:11:22,230 not yet behind bars but under arrest is 246 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,480 he happy about it nobody has expressed 247 00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:26,430 happiness at all in fact the political 248 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,459 parties are being very very measured in 249 00:11:26,430 --> 00:11:29,910 careful as is the media Nawaz Sharif 250 00:11:29,459 --> 00:11:31,830 it's 251 00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:33,420 believed has issued a statement to his 252 00:11:31,830 --> 00:11:35,700 party saying do not make any comment 253 00:11:33,420 --> 00:11:38,880 he's also offered a consular to come and 254 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:41,880 even give support to otha saying if the 255 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,800 police allow it so in fact they're all 256 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,980 treading very very carefully and nobody 257 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:49,560 n Musharraf today says well you know he 258 00:11:46,980 --> 00:11:51,540 has a great deal of sympathy for the MQM 259 00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:54,570 and eldar sustain the Pakistani public 260 00:11:51,540 --> 00:11:56,700 on the other hand is pretty turbulent at 261 00:11:54,570 --> 00:11:58,560 least outside of Karachi and many in 262 00:11:56,700 --> 00:12:01,620 Karachi who have lived under the shadow 263 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:04,830 of this MQM phenomenon just tell us 264 00:12:01,620 --> 00:12:06,450 quickly what happens next well you see 265 00:12:04,830 --> 00:12:08,640 now we've got to wait until he's 266 00:12:06,450 --> 00:12:10,560 improved his recovered from hospital 267 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,720 he's released from hospital he still 268 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:14,220 under police custody he needs to be 269 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,510 interviewed the police will have to make 270 00:12:14,220 --> 00:12:18,030 a decision as to whether they are going 271 00:12:15,510 --> 00:12:19,590 to charge him or not if they do then the 272 00:12:18,030 --> 00:12:20,820 you know Crown Prosecution will be 273 00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:22,920 consulted and there will be a 274 00:12:20,820 --> 00:12:26,190 prosecution as they would in an ordinary 275 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:28,800 event he will no doubt wish to defend 276 00:12:26,190 --> 00:12:30,810 himself it'll be a jewelry trial so you 277 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,820 know it's not a political decision this 278 00:12:30,810 --> 00:12:34,680 is very much an independent judiciary in 279 00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:37,170 this country and the due legal process 280 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:39,660 will take place thank goodness for that 281 00:12:37,170 --> 00:12:41,910 barrister I shall jameel thank you very 282 00:12:39,660 --> 00:12:44,250 much coming up after the break it's 283 00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:46,080 deedee anniversary time with a 284 00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:47,760 necessarily dwindling number of 285 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:50,840 surviving veterans of the day that 286 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:54,890 changed Europe for good sixth of June 287 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,890 1944 we'll be right back 288 00:12:56,740 --> 00:12:58,800 you 289 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:11,390 welcome back to Sputnik d-day marked the 290 00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:13,760 opening of a second western front in the 291 00:13:11,390 --> 00:13:15,950 Second World War hundreds of thousands 292 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:18,830 of Allied forces crossed the English 293 00:13:15,950 --> 00:13:21,410 Channel and invaded nazi-occupied France 294 00:13:18,830 --> 00:13:23,810 at Normandy successfully fooling the 295 00:13:21,410 --> 00:13:26,960 Germans who expected a landing further 296 00:13:23,810 --> 00:13:29,570 east in Saving Private Ryan Steven 297 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,700 Spielberg's masterpiece the opening 20 298 00:13:29,570 --> 00:13:34,190 minutes probably caught the nightmarish 299 00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:37,490 quality of the longest day better than 300 00:13:34,190 --> 00:13:40,040 any surviving usual footage the beaches 301 00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:42,160 of Normandy stained red and the heroism 302 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,050 of the attackers became legend 303 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:47,390 particularly must be said the American 304 00:13:45,050 --> 00:13:49,970 and Canadian contingents who definitely 305 00:13:47,390 --> 00:13:52,010 drew the short straw in the selection of 306 00:13:49,970 --> 00:13:55,160 beachheads at the end of that day 307 00:13:52,010 --> 00:13:57,530 despite enormous sacrifice the Western 308 00:13:55,160 --> 00:14:00,800 Allies had landed and the tide of the 309 00:13:57,530 --> 00:14:02,570 war began to turn people on the left in 310 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,850 Britain have been campaigning for the 311 00:14:02,570 --> 00:14:07,190 opening of such a second front for more 312 00:14:04,850 --> 00:14:09,290 than a year on the Eastern Front the 313 00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:12,260 then soviet union had been making 314 00:14:09,290 --> 00:14:13,970 sacrifices almost beyond calculation and 315 00:14:12,260 --> 00:14:16,910 the Soviet government has become 316 00:14:13,970 --> 00:14:18,470 increasingly furious and suspicious that 317 00:14:16,910 --> 00:14:21,440 they were being left to fight Hitler 318 00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:23,660 alone joining us now to discuss perhaps 319 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:26,660 the most significant day in European 320 00:14:23,660 --> 00:14:30,350 history is military historian max Arthur 321 00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:33,560 OBE max you've got tremendous spread in 322 00:14:30,350 --> 00:14:35,540 the in the daily meal with a adorned I 323 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:38,630 must say what picture I've never seen 324 00:14:35,540 --> 00:14:42,080 before of two of the wounded from that 325 00:14:38,630 --> 00:14:44,870 longest day and your stuff is just 326 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:48,800 brilliant your book silent day I'm 327 00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:51,890 reading no just for the younger viewer 328 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:58,100 as we say tell us what happened on d-day 329 00:14:51,890 --> 00:14:59,810 it was an amazing day because the bulk 330 00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:01,700 of the population didn't know it was 331 00:14:59,810 --> 00:15:04,370 going to happen on that day the buzz of 332 00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:07,730 deception deception lots of deception 333 00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:09,590 raids going out Hitler was deceived the 334 00:15:07,730 --> 00:15:11,330 German army was deceived everyone 335 00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:13,110 thought it's gonna be an attack on the 336 00:15:11,330 --> 00:15:15,899 particle a cause it's only 337 00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:18,959 22 miles across we took the longest 338 00:15:15,899 --> 00:15:23,160 possible route through a through the 339 00:15:18,959 --> 00:15:25,320 Normandy but all the way through from 340 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,899 1942 when the Americans arrived the 341 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:30,540 Canadians earlier we'd had these people 342 00:15:27,899 --> 00:15:34,560 on our home Shores waiting desperately 343 00:15:30,540 --> 00:15:37,170 waiting really for one one day that they 344 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:41,190 get back across and get across the water 345 00:15:37,170 --> 00:15:44,040 and start attacking the Germans so the 346 00:15:41,190 --> 00:15:46,470 book is basically dealing with what it 347 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:49,140 was like to live in this country with 348 00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:51,779 the Canadians and the American soldiers 349 00:15:49,140 --> 00:15:54,180 overpaid oversexed over here solutely 350 00:15:51,779 --> 00:15:56,430 the adoration of the women and the 351 00:15:54,180 --> 00:15:58,680 children for these these young men was 352 00:15:56,430 --> 00:16:01,290 amazing I think I worked that was about 353 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:05,640 five pounds in value between an English 354 00:16:01,290 --> 00:16:08,070 uniform lupa circa 1914-18 and the 355 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,630 American suave gabardine and I thought 356 00:16:08,070 --> 00:16:11,430 of everyone to give them five grinning 357 00:16:09,630 --> 00:16:12,839 got off got a dick the under list 358 00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:15,600 competition would probably would not 359 00:16:12,839 --> 00:16:17,790 have happened you know it was never to 360 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,440 be the case but I you say silent day 361 00:16:17,790 --> 00:16:21,300 because no one knew about a day people 362 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,730 wake up to the news that morning that it 363 00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:27,120 was under way what they woke up to 364 00:16:23,730 --> 00:16:28,949 silence because that you had a something 365 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:33,060 like a hundred and thirty thousand men 366 00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:36,959 suddenly left overnight or adorned and 367 00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:39,240 so these great camps which is described 368 00:16:36,959 --> 00:16:42,390 at one point by Harry patch who was the 369 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:45,420 last survivor of the First World War he 370 00:16:42,390 --> 00:16:47,940 was a plumber and he turned up as he'd 371 00:16:45,420 --> 00:16:50,550 been doing every day to this camp in 372 00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:53,040 Devon and there was no one there the 373 00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:55,560 gate was swinging the three thousand men 374 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:58,440 had gone there was coffee still boiling 375 00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:01,860 on the stove and eating breakfasts and 376 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:04,319 they've gone so this man who they could 377 00:17:01,860 --> 00:17:06,750 have told you know the man from the last 378 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:09,839 man from the person we think Brett's we 379 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:12,240 tell Harry you know no on you when you 380 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:14,610 think of the thousands upon thousands of 381 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,829 sailors soldiers and airmen you had to 382 00:17:14,610 --> 00:17:19,350 keep us in and the civilians and their 383 00:17:16,829 --> 00:17:21,929 wives and in one marvelous case is a 384 00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:23,939 story of this chat still giving out 385 00:17:21,929 --> 00:17:27,089 invitations his wife sending out 386 00:17:23,939 --> 00:17:30,120 invitations to wedding on the a 387 00:17:27,089 --> 00:17:32,190 wow wow and she didn't know and he 388 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:35,190 couldn't tell her that he wasn't gonna 389 00:17:32,190 --> 00:17:36,990 be turning up on the day hikes soic 390 00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:40,770 strongly that secrecy among so many 391 00:17:36,990 --> 00:17:46,440 people it was the largest amphibious 392 00:17:40,770 --> 00:17:48,750 operation ever until now no still is oh 393 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,789 yes it's probably never houses it's 394 00:17:48,750 --> 00:17:53,760 never wouldn't have thousands of ships 395 00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:56,850 now this is the middle thousands of 396 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,159 ships on the water and vast air fleet as 397 00:17:56,850 --> 00:18:01,440 well you know of course we had the air 398 00:17:59,159 --> 00:18:04,260 superiority by that time was that one of 399 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:07,909 the things they were waiting yeah no no 400 00:18:04,260 --> 00:18:10,770 not really no I think we had the energy 401 00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:14,179 we just needed the timing cuz it was jus 402 00:18:10,770 --> 00:18:18,480 on the 5th and there was these poor boys 403 00:18:14,179 --> 00:18:21,539 thousands of men 130,000 warning about 404 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,549 in in landing craft not the most 405 00:18:21,539 --> 00:18:27,240 comfortable of her things are beautiful 406 00:18:23,549 --> 00:18:29,190 yeah they holding up to 700 men you know 407 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:32,220 all desperate to get on to the beaches 408 00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:34,230 all vomiting all over the place and they 409 00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:36,179 cancelled it someone that she set off 410 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:40,850 already so they had to be brought back 411 00:18:36,179 --> 00:18:44,429 so come you know that dawn of that day 412 00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:46,740 they just wanted to get there do the 413 00:18:44,429 --> 00:18:49,620 task because the momentum had built up 414 00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:53,549 you know let's get this done and it was 415 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:55,740 a rough raw attack really it almost 416 00:18:53,549 --> 00:18:57,809 every man was screaming to get off the 417 00:18:55,740 --> 00:18:59,279 landing craft cuz they're all sick over 418 00:18:57,809 --> 00:19:01,200 the side they thought I don't give 419 00:18:59,279 --> 00:19:03,059 there's one marvelous the Ghouta he said 420 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,649 he didn't care he did get shot what he 421 00:19:03,059 --> 00:19:06,990 wanted to do is get off the bloody 422 00:19:04,649 --> 00:19:10,440 landing craft you know get onto the 423 00:19:06,990 --> 00:19:12,299 beach do something um meet the beaches 424 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:15,149 that we landed on weren't anywhere near 425 00:19:12,299 --> 00:19:18,090 as horrific as Omaha that radio the 426 00:19:15,149 --> 00:19:20,640 Americans sacrifice yes ya li to 427 00:19:18,090 --> 00:19:22,860 yong-jae yes way over two-and-a-half 428 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,140 cells and men killed on that on that 429 00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:26,940 beach and as the London as they landed 430 00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:28,890 no I've gotta make this point not 431 00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:32,570 because this is Russia today but because 432 00:19:28,890 --> 00:19:37,110 this is my own politics shining through 433 00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:39,270 these um casualty figures that we're 434 00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:40,470 talking about as awful are of course a 435 00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:42,539 drop in the ocean to 436 00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:45,990 the figures being suffered on the 437 00:19:42,539 --> 00:19:49,080 Eastern Front and as you know men of the 438 00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:52,110 left like me were campaigning in Britain 439 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:54,299 at the time demanding a second front to 440 00:19:52,110 --> 00:19:57,720 take the pressure of the red army that 441 00:19:54,299 --> 00:20:01,350 was breaking the back of the Nancy war 442 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:04,710 machine as mr. Churchill gallantly 443 00:20:01,350 --> 00:20:10,860 conceded and throughout why did they 444 00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:13,770 wait so long I think they had it was 445 00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:17,610 almost a psychological aspect to this 446 00:20:13,770 --> 00:20:20,370 and the detachment is still remains to 447 00:20:17,610 --> 00:20:24,090 in our selves and Russia they were our 448 00:20:20,370 --> 00:20:27,960 allies but slightly distant allies it 449 00:20:24,090 --> 00:20:31,230 was too far away as the German Germans 450 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:33,450 used to chant on the way back it's a 451 00:20:31,230 --> 00:20:35,130 thousand miles from Moscow to Berlin 452 00:20:33,450 --> 00:20:38,220 that was their marching and it is 453 00:20:35,130 --> 00:20:40,200 exactly a thousand miles and that 454 00:20:38,220 --> 00:20:43,049 distance makes quite a bit in our 455 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:46,470 history so it was it was them getting on 456 00:20:43,049 --> 00:20:48,539 but Stalin is exerting great pressure on 457 00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:51,059 us to get this second front going I 458 00:20:48,539 --> 00:20:54,240 think the reason why we didn't do it was 459 00:20:51,059 --> 00:20:57,390 bit of defiance of Stalin but equally 460 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,730 the we're not going to we're ready and 461 00:20:57,390 --> 00:21:01,559 they took that time of training and 462 00:20:59,730 --> 00:21:04,370 everything else getting everyone 463 00:21:01,559 --> 00:21:06,990 assembled getting the units ready 464 00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:09,480 preparing to launch his thousands of 465 00:21:06,990 --> 00:21:11,100 ships thousands of aircraft get him into 466 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,980 the right place the right time not 467 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:16,919 something you can do in a few days and I 468 00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:18,809 think that it was the right time at the 469 00:21:16,919 --> 00:21:22,230 right place with the right amount of 470 00:21:18,809 --> 00:21:24,059 momentum going so at law books from the 471 00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:27,030 Russian side of course know in there 472 00:21:24,059 --> 00:21:29,610 they were engaged in real total warning 473 00:21:27,030 --> 00:21:32,190 we weren't actually engaged in total war 474 00:21:29,610 --> 00:21:35,370 a time we'd seen off the danger of 475 00:21:32,190 --> 00:21:39,419 invasion we could have I suppose sat out 476 00:21:35,370 --> 00:21:41,909 the the duration some would say we only 477 00:21:39,419 --> 00:21:44,580 or at least the Allies Western Allies 478 00:21:41,909 --> 00:21:47,309 only actually did it at all because they 479 00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:49,679 could see that the Red Army was winning 480 00:21:47,309 --> 00:21:52,559 and was on its way to Berlin which 481 00:21:49,679 --> 00:21:53,270 happened anyway but might keep on going 482 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:55,370 yeah 483 00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:57,550 and they needed a Western Front if there 484 00:21:55,370 --> 00:22:01,460 was going to be any division of Europe 485 00:21:57,550 --> 00:22:04,250 what he said to that thesis I'd say look 486 00:22:01,460 --> 00:22:08,360 at the texts between Churchill Roosevelt 487 00:22:04,250 --> 00:22:10,430 and Stalin and the organization that 488 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:12,290 must have gone in their minds of what is 489 00:22:10,430 --> 00:22:14,840 it going to be like when we had peace 490 00:22:12,290 --> 00:22:17,270 we're going to win this war I didn't 491 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,850 hear was any much doubt about it even at 492 00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:20,960 that point how is this going to find the 493 00:22:19,850 --> 00:22:25,250 unit through your own political 494 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:27,740 expediency let's make a calm front 495 00:22:25,250 --> 00:22:30,140 afterwards let's make some for there 496 00:22:27,740 --> 00:22:34,010 must be some agreements somewhere along 497 00:22:30,140 --> 00:22:36,410 the line so in which case the British 498 00:22:34,010 --> 00:22:40,250 just and Americans and allies fitted 499 00:22:36,410 --> 00:22:42,920 into that and we could have suffered we 500 00:22:40,250 --> 00:22:44,900 could have lost it Normandy you know had 501 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,390 they managed to counter-attack which 502 00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:50,930 they did very quickly and when you think 503 00:22:47,390 --> 00:22:52,850 that four months later abba Stein they 504 00:22:50,930 --> 00:22:57,830 had almost overwhelm the American troops 505 00:22:52,850 --> 00:23:01,040 yet again drove them back 60 miles it 506 00:22:57,830 --> 00:23:02,330 was still perilous uh and lot of 507 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,950 casualties all the way through our 508 00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:05,600 french casualties lot of french 509 00:23:03,950 --> 00:23:07,970 casualties thousands of french people 510 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,220 died in just in the detail what they 511 00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:13,610 really palms in their own houses if I 512 00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:15,710 products yet boy else it thousands far 513 00:23:13,610 --> 00:23:17,900 more than were killed on the beaches you 514 00:23:15,710 --> 00:23:19,640 know but we were getting to you know 515 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:23,330 there weren't exactly out there it was 516 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:26,630 the liberation of France it wasn't sure 517 00:23:23,330 --> 00:23:30,470 I think grateful for maybe a little shy 518 00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:32,360 about it but grateful for it and of 519 00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:34,880 course the commemorations this weakening 520 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:36,700 quite moving oh very mood queen they are 521 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,170 maybe for the last significant 522 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:40,970 anniversary I said in the introduction 523 00:23:39,170 --> 00:23:44,090 it was the most important day in 524 00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:46,250 European history as a hyperbole on my 525 00:23:44,090 --> 00:23:49,190 partner not all change the face of the 526 00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:52,250 world what world would we have had your 527 00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:54,850 book captures it I must say wonderfully 528 00:23:52,250 --> 00:23:58,580 the aspect of it that not many people 529 00:23:54,850 --> 00:24:01,790 calculate now the total silence yes the 530 00:23:58,580 --> 00:24:03,860 total secrecy in which it was done that 531 00:24:01,790 --> 00:24:04,809 is something that definitely could not 532 00:24:03,860 --> 00:24:07,899 be 533 00:24:04,809 --> 00:24:10,629 no no ax Arthur will be it's been a 534 00:24:07,899 --> 00:24:16,929 pleasure my pleasure living d-day with 535 00:24:10,629 --> 00:24:18,460 you thanks very much indeed and now it's 536 00:24:16,929 --> 00:24:20,499 your turn to tell us what you think 537 00:24:18,460 --> 00:24:22,509 through the portals of social media 538 00:24:20,499 --> 00:24:26,019 what's rattling gayatri on the art of 539 00:24:22,509 --> 00:24:28,690 Hussain arrest my shirt says that 99% of 540 00:24:26,019 --> 00:24:31,210 Pakistani politicians are corrupt they 541 00:24:28,690 --> 00:24:34,629 saw ask randall correct they fear news 542 00:24:31,210 --> 00:24:36,759 around them and salman shah argues that 543 00:24:34,629 --> 00:24:38,350 how much do you get from pakistani 544 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:42,940 establishment george to sell out your 545 00:24:38,350 --> 00:24:44,830 conscience nothing from anybody don't 546 00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:48,220 judge everybody else by your own 547 00:24:44,830 --> 00:24:52,779 rat-like standards that's clear I guess 548 00:24:48,220 --> 00:24:54,820 on the DJ anniversary sash anna says DJ 549 00:24:52,779 --> 00:24:57,419 anniversary should be a commemoration of 550 00:24:54,820 --> 00:25:00,159 shame of West for not opening it until 551 00:24:57,419 --> 00:25:02,619 USSR broke the back of Nazis and 552 00:25:00,159 --> 00:25:04,360 defeated them oh I think that's going 553 00:25:02,619 --> 00:25:06,850 too far I don't think you couldn't 554 00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:10,749 describe an operation of that scale of 555 00:25:06,850 --> 00:25:12,789 that heroism and sacrifice as being 556 00:25:10,749 --> 00:25:14,139 something to be ashamed of yeah we 557 00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:16,720 should certainly be ashamed of the fact 558 00:25:14,139 --> 00:25:20,350 that it didn't happen earlier but the 559 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:22,809 men who mounted the biggest amphibious 560 00:25:20,350 --> 00:25:25,360 assault in his military history until 561 00:25:22,809 --> 00:25:27,100 this day have a lot to be proud of and 562 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,419 we should be proud of them that's why 563 00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:30,159 we're celebrating here to speak and 564 00:25:28,419 --> 00:25:32,289 that's it for them which sadly means 565 00:25:30,159 --> 00:25:34,389 that's the end of the show do please 566 00:25:32,289 --> 00:25:36,429 keep in touch with us on twitter at RT 567 00:25:34,389 --> 00:25:38,440 underscores put Nick and on facebook you 568 00:25:36,429 --> 00:25:40,779 can like us on Sputnik on Russia today 569 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:44,820 it's goodbye from me Gayatri and from me 570 00:25:40,779 --> 00:25:44,820 George Galloway it's been marvelous 571 00:25:52,090 --> 00:25:54,150 you