1 00:00:02,370 --> 00:00:07,580 [Music] 2 00:00:14,879 --> 00:00:17,879 I 3 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,879 welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 4 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:43,039 with me George Galloway and me gadri a 5 00:00:40,879 --> 00:00:45,120 national consensus began to crystallize 6 00:00:43,039 --> 00:00:48,840 in Britain over the last few weeks that 7 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:51,199 Tony Blair has become either mad or bad 8 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,120 and in either case dangerous to know it 9 00:00:51,199 --> 00:00:54,920 began with his Bloomberg speech a couple 10 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,199 of months ago actually in which he 11 00:00:54,920 --> 00:01:00,199 appeared to postulate a kind of 12 00:00:57,199 --> 00:01:02,879 orwellian NeverEnding war between West 13 00:01:00,199 --> 00:01:05,280 and East and then was that strange 14 00:01:02,879 --> 00:01:07,680 appearance as if from the war zone as 15 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:10,119 Iraq fell apart under an advancing 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:13,119 alqaeda attack in which he absolved 17 00:01:10,119 --> 00:01:15,640 himself and President Bush of all blame 18 00:01:13,119 --> 00:01:18,640 and instead called for us to launch yet 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:20,520 another War this time against both Iraq 20 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,560 and Syria taken together with a 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,439 catastrophic situation being faced by 22 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:27,000 the Palestinian people under seat in 23 00:01:24,439 --> 00:01:29,759 Gaza under lockdown in the West Bank and 24 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,520 under illegal annexation in Jerusalem it 25 00:01:29,759 --> 00:01:33,799 just this all became too much for people 26 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,960 on the right as well on the left from 27 00:01:33,799 --> 00:01:38,320 the mayor of London The Daily Mail and 28 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:41,119 the Daily Telegraph to well people like 29 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:44,000 us it's time for BL to go at least as a 30 00:01:41,119 --> 00:01:45,880 so-called Middle East peace Envoy so 31 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,719 said thousands of people in just the 32 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:51,520 first few hours of a new petition at 33 00:01:48,719 --> 00:01:56,079 sa.org addressed to the leaders of the 34 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:58,439 quartet the UN the EU the US and Russia 35 00:01:56,079 --> 00:02:00,439 reflecting the consensus it is headed up 36 00:01:58,439 --> 00:02:02,719 by both Tor Grande 37 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:05,799 and leftwing luminaries preeminent 38 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:08,560 amongst the latter Professor Nom Chomsky 39 00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:10,239 and our first guest former conservative 40 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:13,000 government Minister and distinguished 41 00:02:10,239 --> 00:02:15,680 expert on the Middle East chrisen blunt 42 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:18,440 M he was on his way to a very important 43 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,280 engagement at London's Guild Hall but we 44 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:24,519 squeezed them in before we'd even 45 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,519 finished making the set listen to 46 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:30,360 this chrisen blunt this uh sudden 47 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,879 apparently sudden crystallization 48 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,400 across the political spectrum that I 49 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:36,560 talked about in the introduction what do 50 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,239 you think is the approximate cause of 51 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,239 that well I think there are there are 52 00:02:38,239 --> 00:02:43,519 lots of causes and the different 53 00:02:40,239 --> 00:02:45,159 signatures to your uh letter uh all have 54 00:02:43,519 --> 00:02:47,000 given slightly different perspectives in 55 00:02:45,159 --> 00:02:49,319 their in their own explanations in the 56 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:52,760 press release that accompanied uh this 57 00:02:49,319 --> 00:02:54,720 the statement uh and for some people 58 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:58,319 it's simply that you know he was the 59 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:00,640 whole businessman 2003 and the case made 60 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:04,200 to Parliament uh and how that's all 61 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:05,959 become uh very badly uh unpicked uh as 62 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,480 time has gone on for some people that 63 00:03:05,959 --> 00:03:10,799 may was an incredible figure from once 64 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:13,840 that was established uh for me actually 65 00:03:10,799 --> 00:03:16,840 it's rather different uh my view is that 66 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,239 uh regardless of the merits of the 2003 67 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:22,200 presentation and the decision and the 68 00:03:18,239 --> 00:03:25,040 consequences it because of it uh I think 69 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:27,200 as he left office he wanted kind of to 70 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:30,959 find a role that would enable him to 71 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:33,840 make up some of the uh damage that had 72 00:03:30,959 --> 00:03:36,159 been done by his policy at some level 73 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:39,239 now he would never present it like that 74 00:03:36,159 --> 00:03:41,519 but I was very surprised uh to be able 75 00:03:39,239 --> 00:03:42,879 to go to Downing Street to have a a 76 00:03:41,519 --> 00:03:44,920 meeting with Tony Blair with the all 77 00:03:42,879 --> 00:03:47,280 party Palestine group shortly before he 78 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,959 left office and he was very seriously 79 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,599 engaged in the Palestine issue and then 80 00:03:49,959 --> 00:03:54,040 when he accepted this appointment as a 81 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:57,000 quarter Envoy I thought this presented 82 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:59,920 an opportunity um empowered by the 83 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:02,400 quartet um and if he had been able to to 84 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:03,920 play a political and an economic role 85 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,720 then he would have been a very powerful 86 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:09,120 figure to bring uh the parties uh 87 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,879 together but of course almost within 88 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,879 weeks the Bush Administration had made 89 00:04:10,879 --> 00:04:15,239 it perfectly clear politics was for them 90 00:04:12,879 --> 00:04:18,000 and wasn't for him um which simply left 91 00:04:15,239 --> 00:04:20,840 him with this economic role which he has 92 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,600 uh energetically pursued but now the 93 00:04:20,840 --> 00:04:26,000 politics has collapsed again uh frankly 94 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,560 that economic role is really redundant 95 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,720 because we're never going to repair the 96 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,600 economy of Palestine because seven years 97 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,919 I mean there've been seven fat years for 98 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,360 Mr Blair which is another question but 99 00:04:33,919 --> 00:04:40,240 they've been very lean indeed years for 100 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:42,960 the Palestinian people the Gaza Siege 101 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,560 continues the people in Gaza living on 102 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:49,080 the brink of starvation Mr Blair's been 103 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:53,000 117 times he boasts to the area but only 104 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:55,840 one time to Gaza the lockdown as we 105 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:58,320 speak in the West Bank Mass arrests 106 00:04:55,840 --> 00:05:00,520 killings on a daily basis and of course 107 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:06,520 Jerusalem going through it own 108 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:09,800 particular uh uh Calvary uh the uh the 109 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:13,520 Palestinians overwhelmingly say that he 110 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:15,560 was from the beginning in the pockets of 111 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,600 the is that was always going to be the 112 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,600 problem given the policy positions he 113 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,720 had taken as prime minister and he was 114 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,720 going to have to establish credibility 115 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,280 that he was actually uh properly 116 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,600 empowered Envoy he was going to listen 117 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:30,280 fairly to both sides and quite quickly 118 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,919 he became as you say completely focused 119 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:34,880 on the West Bank and just on economic 120 00:05:31,919 --> 00:05:38,120 issues and therefore engag just with the 121 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:41,840 Palestinian Authority and not the whole 122 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:43,960 wide wide uh political representation of 123 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:45,759 Palestine which as we know goes much 124 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:49,680 further than the the parties's making up 125 00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:51,560 the authority and wasn't maybe the last 126 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:55,360 straw that broke the camels back for 127 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:58,440 many people the disaster that is now 128 00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:01,120 overcoming Iraq uh whatever view one 129 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:04,280 took on the war we took different uh 130 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:06,919 views uh manifestly it has all gone 131 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:09,639 badly wrong when Al-Qaeda are in control 132 00:06:06,919 --> 00:06:12,039 of half the country and uh and Shiite 133 00:06:09,639 --> 00:06:15,759 militias are tooling up in the other 134 00:06:12,039 --> 00:06:19,120 half clearly this is not what uh people 135 00:06:15,759 --> 00:06:22,360 thought was the objective of the western 136 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,199 allies who went into that war well 137 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,039 obviously it has turned out to be a 138 00:06:24,199 --> 00:06:28,160 catastrophe it was an utter disaster 139 00:06:26,039 --> 00:06:31,240 with the Insurgency That Then followed 140 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:34,800 uh awful decisions made uh to disarm the 141 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:38,599 Iraqi Army uh which would have been a uh 142 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,599 a a force for stability uh in Iraq and 143 00:06:38,599 --> 00:06:41,759 then you just put a whole lot of 144 00:06:39,599 --> 00:06:44,280 unemployed officers and soldiers uh on 145 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:46,080 the streets and wondered why it uh it 146 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:47,880 went sour even quicker than it might 147 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,800 otherwise have done even if you had been 148 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:53,120 able to control the Shia Sunni Kur 149 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:56,240 tensions within uh Iraq and so here we 150 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:58,520 are 10 years later and Iraq as an entity 151 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:01,280 is pretty much a busted flush now and we 152 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:03,080 need to face up to the realities of new 153 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:04,879 go politics there and actually create 154 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,639 entities that are going to have the 155 00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:09,280 support of their populations and it's 156 00:07:06,639 --> 00:07:10,639 going to mean some ugly choices in terms 157 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:11,759 of population movements and the rest 158 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:14,000 that are going to look a bit like the 159 00:07:11,759 --> 00:07:16,120 partition of India uh Mr Blair famously 160 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,599 became a Roman Catholic but penitence 161 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:21,599 doesn't seem to be anywhere in his uh 162 00:07:18,599 --> 00:07:24,400 religious vocabulary he was out fighting 163 00:07:21,599 --> 00:07:27,560 as the state in Iraq was collapsing 164 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:30,680 seeing not only that it wasn't my fault 165 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:34,000 uh but that we we will have to uh go in 166 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:37,080 again did that kind of gung-ho uh 167 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,720 attitude from him surprise you uh it 168 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,240 didn't surprised me but it may it sounds 169 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,479 pretty desperate now I mean all the 170 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,199 evidence around is that the approach 171 00:07:43,479 --> 00:07:47,759 that uh the bush and Blair 172 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:50,319 administrations took in 173 00:07:47,759 --> 00:07:52,120 20023 and obviously the consideration of 174 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:55,039 the attack on Iraq and then the attack 175 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:57,840 on Iraq has turned out to be have 176 00:07:55,039 --> 00:07:59,560 utterly disastrous uh consequences we've 177 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,879 very badly mishandled the relationship 178 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:04,280 ship with Iran for for example I was in 179 00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:06,199 the House of Commons and as you gently 180 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,840 pointed out I did vote for the war in 181 00:08:06,199 --> 00:08:11,240 2003 but I partly voted for I was a 182 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,759 soldier our guys were on the start line 183 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,199 we were presented with a decision when 184 00:08:12,759 --> 00:08:16,599 12 hours later uh you know colleagues of 185 00:08:15,199 --> 00:08:17,759 mine were going former colleagues of 186 00:08:16,599 --> 00:08:19,319 mine were going through their battle 187 00:08:17,759 --> 00:08:20,720 procedure in order to cross the start 188 00:08:19,319 --> 00:08:22,960 hly ridiculous for Parliament at that 189 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,720 point to turn around and say uh no stop 190 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,840 and I have to say I sat there in the 191 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,599 House of Commons and listened to T Blair 192 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:33,080 and it was the most and I kind of knew 193 00:08:29,599 --> 00:08:35,240 he this man had a reputation for um how 194 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,279 should we say not being 195 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,519 necessarily as much Integrity as one 196 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:40,479 would necessary expect of a prime 197 00:08:38,519 --> 00:08:42,479 minister over the period um very 198 00:08:40,479 --> 00:08:45,600 convincing presentations on on other 199 00:08:42,479 --> 00:08:48,080 things on this I absolutely you know I I 200 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,440 thought that's that's the real deal I 201 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,640 was convinced by his by his presentation 202 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:56,480 and the case he 203 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:59,959 made for others it has been the Egypt 204 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:02,519 imolo uh Tom Watson the redoubtable now 205 00:08:59,959 --> 00:09:07,399 backbench labor Member of Parliament 206 00:09:02,519 --> 00:09:11,360 just signed up for the sack blair. org 207 00:09:07,399 --> 00:09:13,720 petition uh and he said for me Egypt was 208 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:17,680 the last STW by which he meant Mr 209 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:22,040 Blair's uh apparent blank check to the 210 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:26,880 military Juna uh in Egypt and the mass 211 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:29,640 killings uh that they engaged in uh his 212 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:32,440 apparent endorsement at the criminal 213 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:35,920 ization of the party that actually won 214 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:40,399 the last perhaps only ever democratic 215 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:45,240 election in Egypt four of them uh yes uh 216 00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:49,120 now he uh he he's right on site uh with 217 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:51,760 uh General CC and indeed dallar Campbell 218 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:54,240 his former spin doctor is now doing a 219 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:58,120 bit of spin doctoring for them God help 220 00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:01,839 them uh you very courageously were uh 221 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:03,839 right in uh close up to the action uh in 222 00:10:01,839 --> 00:10:06,600 the squares in Cairo and wrote very 223 00:10:03,839 --> 00:10:09,600 powerfully uh about it again were you 224 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:11,640 surprised that Mr Blair's uh stand or is 225 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,800 this just compound it all for you that's 226 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:16,360 kind his position to be fair to him has 227 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:19,720 been highly consistent since the Chicago 228 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:21,480 speech and this Doctrine um that he that 229 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:24,839 uh of this interventionist doctrine that 230 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:27,839 he produced then uh it has been an utter 231 00:10:24,839 --> 00:10:32,519 disaster wherever it's been implemented 232 00:10:27,839 --> 00:10:35,480 and we are uh giving the authority uh 233 00:10:32,519 --> 00:10:37,760 for powers like China than to intervene 234 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:40,800 in Africa in years to come when they see 235 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:42,360 their interests uh being uh upset by 236 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,920 Africans who will eventually get fed up 237 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:47,000 with uh the amount of occupation of 238 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,760 their assets and their countries that 239 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,000 China will effectively have achieved by 240 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,040 then so we're going down a pretty 241 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,440 dangerous road with this uh 242 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,519 responsibility to protect Doctrine by 243 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,920 them because it we're St into an 244 00:10:55,519 --> 00:11:00,320 international law gray area and it' be 245 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,800 infinitely better to rely on the clear 246 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,120 international law that be produced by 247 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,160 United Nations security Council 248 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,360 resolutions and when we've departed from 249 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:11,399 it um we now have uh position where 250 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:13,440 Russia quite rightly is is takes 251 00:11:11,399 --> 00:11:15,000 exception to Western exceptionalism 252 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,720 you've now got a terribly divided 253 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:20,639 society and Egypt and uh the 254 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,680 consequences of which we're going to we 255 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:24,240 we now we'll have to have to see but I 256 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:26,120 can't make things any better sentencing 257 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:29,440 th thousands of people to death and 258 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:32,079 holding 25,000 people uh in in in 259 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,440 custody who not very long ago commanded 260 00:11:32,079 --> 00:11:35,680 a mandate and I think in about four 261 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,079 elections they were on the uh on on The 262 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:38,839 Winning Side Parliament the president 263 00:11:37,079 --> 00:11:41,639 say the Constitution that's at least 264 00:11:38,839 --> 00:11:43,880 three yeah uh chrisen blunt I know you 265 00:11:41,639 --> 00:11:46,279 have another important engagement in the 266 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:48,480 Guild Hall thanks for squeezing in the 267 00:11:46,279 --> 00:11:51,720 Sputnik coming up after the break it's 268 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:54,560 Her Excellency Alysia Castro ambassador 269 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:56,440 of Argentina to the court of St James 270 00:11:54,560 --> 00:12:00,600 doesn't get much more distinguished than 271 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,600 that we'll be right back 272 00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:10,710 [Music] 273 00:12:15,519 --> 00:12:20,399 welcome back to Sputnik 32 years ago a 274 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,360 lot of men left their guts on goose 275 00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:24,600 green to prove How brave a soldier 276 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:27,240 Margaret Thatcher was and hundreds of 277 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,800 Argentine Sailors were sent to a watery 278 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,680 grave shot in the back on the Bel Grano 279 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:34,120 as they were leaving The War Zone on 280 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:36,920 Margaret Thatcher's personal order the 281 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:39,320 UK taxpayer has expended many billions 282 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,279 of pounds in defense of a population 283 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:44,240 smaller than the English Village of 284 00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:46,839 nether walop living 8,000 mil from the 285 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,839 country they call their own ours 286 00:12:46,839 --> 00:12:51,560 Britain's isolation in Latin America is 287 00:12:48,839 --> 00:12:53,880 virtually complete and very expensive 288 00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:56,360 yet still this Preposterous appendage of 289 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:58,399 British colonialism continues it's 290 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:01,480 Gilbert and Sullivan's fars at our 291 00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:03,320 expense and in every sense G went out to 292 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,040 listen to what the people had to say 293 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,959 about this farce a lot of people got 294 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:10,240 loose lost their life and a lot of money 295 00:13:06,959 --> 00:13:13,839 was spent England got a bit of political 296 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:16,720 Kudos or War Kudos as you might say 297 00:13:13,839 --> 00:13:18,240 Argentina got a bloody knows so that 298 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,360 that's how it that's how that's how it 299 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,920 read when there's no oil there's no 300 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,839 diamonds there's nothing there no it's 301 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,880 just piece of rock it's a piece of rock 302 00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:29,360 but they will fight for it that's the 303 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,959 British for you they should be back kid 304 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,000 trying to sort out here instead of over 305 00:13:30,959 --> 00:13:36,480 there 9,000 miles away you know share 306 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:39,399 it's all British hurry up and get get 307 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,959 together and share England don't give 308 00:13:39,399 --> 00:13:43,199 back they don't give back if they got it 309 00:13:41,959 --> 00:13:45,800 they're not going to give it back it's 310 00:13:43,199 --> 00:13:49,480 nearer to them so really it should 311 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:53,120 them really come be serious so what are 312 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:55,279 they doing there well our next guest is 313 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,240 one of Argentina's crack diplomats 314 00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:59,240 having previously been a close comrade 315 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,519 of the late president Hugo Chavez of 316 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:04,240 Venezuela one of Argentina's greatest 317 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:07,360 friends and I'm pleased to say she joins 318 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:09,560 us now Her Excellency Ambassador Alysia 319 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,040 Castro Ambassador thanks for joining us 320 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:13,480 you must be pretty uh gratified pleased 321 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,519 with what you heard there on London 322 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,639 streets it's it's really very 323 00:14:15,519 --> 00:14:19,639 interesting but it's not a surprise for 324 00:14:17,639 --> 00:14:22,320 me it doesn't come as a surprise Mr 325 00:14:19,639 --> 00:14:24,920 Galloway because we normally meet many 326 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:27,079 people and many organizations that not 327 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,680 only were at the time against the war 328 00:14:27,079 --> 00:14:33,320 because the war as you know it had been 329 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:36,240 um organized and decided by a a a 330 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,480 criminal Juna that by that time ruled 331 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:41,360 our country and that would already was 332 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:45,680 killing people in our own country the 333 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:49,120 30,000 desos disappeared people at the 334 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:53,120 time so it was a a detector ship that 335 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:56,320 was using the war as an excuse to and an 336 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:59,160 stun to remain in power so it was for a 337 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,480 very for the worst of of reasons that 338 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,399 they went there for the for the war and 339 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:07,199 it's striking that uh the government of 340 00:15:04,399 --> 00:15:07,959 the United Kingdom that did negotiate 341 00:15:07,199 --> 00:15:09,800 from 342 00:15:07,959 --> 00:15:13,279 1967 to 343 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:17,000 1982 until the war time with this 344 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:19,920 dictatorship is nowadays not uh wanting 345 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,160 and not able to have a dialogue a proper 346 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,839 dialogue with a democratic and popular 347 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:27,480 government of Christina 348 00:15:23,839 --> 00:15:30,639 Fernand it is odd because even Mrs Tater 349 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:33,240 was prepared to discuss at least perhaps 350 00:15:30,639 --> 00:15:35,440 endlessly discuss maybe never agree but 351 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:38,440 she never pretended she wasn't ready to 352 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:41,240 discuss the sovereignty claim and the 353 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,959 possibility of shared sovereignty I in 354 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,880 the British Parliament have been arguing 355 00:15:42,959 --> 00:15:47,639 for a sharing of sovereignty over the 356 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:50,160 malvinas and perhaps more importantly 357 00:15:47,639 --> 00:15:51,880 its surrounding Waters because one of 358 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,120 the Vox pops was wrong there when he 359 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:56,480 said there's no diamonds and no oil uh I 360 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,480 don't know about diamonds but there's 361 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:01,600 plenty of oil in them there sees 362 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,360 uh is shared sovereignty something that 363 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,440 the democratic government of Argentina 364 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:09,120 would discuss with the British there 365 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:12,959 were it was discussed in the past as we 366 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:15,319 said between 60 1966 and 1982 there were 367 00:16:12,959 --> 00:16:18,920 many options discussed and their 368 00:16:15,319 --> 00:16:21,240 documents drafted I'm sure that the 369 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:23,880 inhabitants of the islands would have a 370 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:27,079 much better way of life that what they 371 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:30,120 have today in first place as you as you 372 00:16:27,079 --> 00:16:32,920 mentioned it there is oil 373 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:35,399 but they they are doing exploration 374 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:38,440 which is uh clandestine because under 375 00:16:35,399 --> 00:16:41,279 Argentine law and under the United 376 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:44,000 Nations while the case is being dealt in 377 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:46,560 the de colonization committee you cannot 378 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:49,120 uh do unilateral things not one 379 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:53,199 government or the other and they are uh 380 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:56,480 exploring and try to exploit their 381 00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:59,240 hydrocarbons and um it isn't feasible 382 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:02,480 without a proper link with the continent 383 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:05,640 without a proper Logistics without 384 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:08,919 organization if uh Argentina would be 385 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:12,319 exercising its sovereignty they could 386 00:17:08,919 --> 00:17:14,679 exploit their hydrocarbons and even own 387 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:16,720 the profits as any of the others 388 00:17:14,679 --> 00:17:20,400 provinces in Argentina 389 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:22,439 do they would have a a better life in 390 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,520 terms of communications not only with 391 00:17:22,439 --> 00:17:26,559 Mainland Argentina but with the rest of 392 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,960 the world they would enjoy our 393 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:31,160 universities that are very good and 394 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,640 totally free they would enjoy a free 395 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:38,840 health care system and um they would 396 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:41,000 have a very happy life as the quarter 397 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,320 million of British descendants that live 398 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,760 in Mainland Argentina do you know that 399 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:48,480 we are we are most prob probably the the 400 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:52,039 the most angile country in Latin America 401 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:55,039 arguably and uh we have the largest uh 402 00:17:52,039 --> 00:17:59,280 British descendants community and we 403 00:17:55,039 --> 00:18:03,360 even have the largest Welsh community 404 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:07,240 apart from Wales and they they even 405 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:12,000 speak they even speak perfect Welsh and 406 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:15,440 um I went to meet um the authorities of 407 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:18,559 of Wales and Minister Carwin Jones told 408 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:21,720 me that he sends his official documents 409 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:23,559 to be translated from English to to 410 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,440 Welsh to a 411 00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:29,200 Patagonia and we are going in the in the 412 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:32,200 next days with the governor of tuut the 413 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,840 province in in Argentina in the south of 414 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:38,080 Argentina where these um communities 415 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:40,760 live and we are going to organize joint 416 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,679 celebrations for the 150 years 417 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:46,000 anniversary of the Welsh settlement in 418 00:18:42,679 --> 00:18:49,080 Argentina you even have a a huge Irish 419 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:51,799 origin Community the most famous of whom 420 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:55,280 is of course the great CH gavara yes he 421 00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:57,039 was gar Lynch his family was gar Lynch 422 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,000 of course so what's not to love why 423 00:18:57,039 --> 00:19:01,960 would they why do they want to stay with 424 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:05,360 their sheep on this Rocky uh outcrop 425 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:09,200 claiming to be British even though uh 426 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:11,679 Britain is uh more than 8,000 miles away 427 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,000 well they are British and they have the 428 00:19:11,679 --> 00:19:15,679 right to be 429 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:18,720 British and uh we don't have anything 430 00:19:15,679 --> 00:19:20,919 against it they can't being going on 431 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:24,159 being British they are British but the 432 00:19:20,919 --> 00:19:26,960 territory in which they live is not this 433 00:19:24,159 --> 00:19:29,240 is not this this this has nothing to do 434 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,240 and there is no conf conflict or 435 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,640 controversy with the inhabitants of the 436 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,039 islands but of course with the 437 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:38,679 government of the United Kingdom that 438 00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:41,520 should be uh talking and negotiating 439 00:19:38,679 --> 00:19:44,440 with with Argentina I think that United 440 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:47,400 Kingdom government uh wants to remain in 441 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:49,480 that geost strategical political place 442 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,320 in in the South Atlantic in the middle 443 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:56,360 of two oceans that was what driven 444 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:59,159 Englishmen in in the 18th century to try 445 00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:02,440 to find a place there and to inst all 446 00:19:59,159 --> 00:20:03,840 the their army and they have a huge 447 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:08,679 military 448 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:10,440 base um they have a base of um almost uh 449 00:20:08,679 --> 00:20:13,799 2,000 450 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:17,039 soldiers um for a population of less 451 00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:20,600 than 3,000 people so it's the most 452 00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:24,159 militarized area in the planet there's a 453 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:26,640 un c24 taking place as we speak uh are 454 00:20:24,159 --> 00:20:28,880 these negotiations going anywhere well 455 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:32,159 today exactly in the while we are 456 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:34,159 talking here we it's um the meeting of 457 00:20:32,159 --> 00:20:37,360 the decolonization Committee in the 458 00:20:34,159 --> 00:20:41,000 United Nations as you said and uh I'm 459 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:42,840 sure the the come out will be the 460 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:46,080 42nd 461 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:49,200 resolution uh urging both countries to 462 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:51,679 resume negotiations how are you uh 463 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:54,760 received here I'll tell you why I ask 464 00:20:51,679 --> 00:20:58,120 two of the most popular footballers ever 465 00:20:54,760 --> 00:21:01,080 uh in this country oie illes and Ricky 466 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:05,600 Villa played for Tottenham Hots Spar in 467 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:07,640 England at the time of the war and yet 468 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,200 everybody loved them and loves them 469 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,760 still partly because they were very good 470 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:15,880 players also because they're very fine 471 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:19,200 people uh but there was never any hatred 472 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:21,000 of Argentina in this country uh how you 473 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,640 received as you go about I mean you meet 474 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:26,600 the queen you meet the British ministers 475 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:31,240 and you meet the public how are you 476 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:34,240 received well we very recently had a um 477 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,559 a conference in in our house with Ricky 478 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,360 V and oais and I could appreciate what 479 00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:40,279 you're saying the the love of British 480 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:43,960 people and of course football is a 481 00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:47,360 shared passion of of English and and and 482 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:49,400 Argentine people and uh those were the 483 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:51,919 first football players that came from 484 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:55,000 Latin America making a difference of 485 00:21:51,919 --> 00:21:57,760 course and um I didn't know that the 486 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:00,039 goal of of Ricky V is still remember of 487 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,960 the one of the forgettable one of the 488 00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:08,120 most unforgettable Cup Final goals ever 489 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:09,520 so um you're a Spur no no but uh I like 490 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:13,520 good football and sports were a very 491 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:16,000 fine team at that time and um but 492 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,799 there's nothing this as as we said 493 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,400 before this has nothing to do with 494 00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:22,240 people there there's 495 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,840 are there's a a quarter million of 496 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,679 British descendants in living in 497 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:29,279 Argentina and nobody's had or had ever 498 00:22:26,679 --> 00:22:34,559 been hostile to to Eng English people I 499 00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:37,679 mean this was the the will of the two 500 00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:41,080 governments at the time the the military 501 00:22:37,679 --> 00:22:43,520 Jun and and margar thater who wanted 502 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,240 that was a kind of a military Jun too 503 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,679 but now we both have democratic 504 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,880 governments how are that that is why 505 00:22:47,679 --> 00:22:52,039 it's not understandable that they don't 506 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:55,080 and and you know uh the United Kingdom 507 00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:57,720 government is isolated in this matter 508 00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:00,600 because it's all the International 509 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:04,120 Community which no exception that is 510 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,960 asking to uh resume negotiations and 511 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:08,080 have a proper dialogue between two 512 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:11,720 Sovereign Nations so they are not only 513 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:13,840 isolated in the non-resp the the 514 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,880 resolutions of the United Nations but 515 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:19,679 the call of of all the International 516 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:22,400 Community who can survive without dial 517 00:23:19,679 --> 00:23:25,559 dialogue nobody can and it's an 518 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:27,799 expensive business to uh to do your 519 00:23:25,559 --> 00:23:30,640 business through helicopters and nuclear 520 00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:32,720 submarines and so on especially when we 521 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:36,000 live in a country that has many other 522 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:39,000 pressing uh need for that uh money uh 523 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:42,200 just finally then uh how optimistic are 524 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:46,080 you that things might change I am 525 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:49,360 optimistic I am optimistic I know that 526 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:51,760 sooner or later Argentina will exercise 527 00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:55,360 the sovereignty over the malvinas 528 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:59,080 islands uh I work and my job and I thank 529 00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:02,880 you and everyone that is uh asking for 530 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:05,840 dialogue is to make though that time 531 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,600 shorter Ambassador Alysia Castro thank 532 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:11,240 you very much thank for coming on board 533 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:13,799 the than you both very much thank 534 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,840 you and now it's your turn to tell us 535 00:24:13,799 --> 00:24:18,279 what you think through the portals of 536 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,120 social media what's rattling gri well 537 00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:22,760 the people on Twitter and Facebook are 538 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:25,120 unanimous when it comes to Tony Blair 539 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:28,399 they actually want more than him being 540 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:30,399 sacked uh Petty Grant says Blair should 541 00:24:28,399 --> 00:24:33,039 be dragged Kicking and Screaming to the 542 00:24:30,399 --> 00:24:35,799 hake he is no better than any other mass 543 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:37,919 murderer and Donald McRonald says apart 544 00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:40,000 from Blair's totally inexplicable 545 00:24:37,919 --> 00:24:42,159 appointment as peace Envoy the Middle 546 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:45,120 East is going up in Flames well done 547 00:24:42,159 --> 00:24:49,000 Tony I think this is an idea whose Time 548 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:51,080 Has Come uh I'd be surprised if uh in a 549 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,640 few weeks time Mr Blair is still the 550 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,399 Middle East peace and boy well in 551 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,840 Argentina we have a different matter 552 00:24:54,399 --> 00:24:59,000 Michael bsby jokes that while looking 553 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,000 where they are in the South Atlant just 554 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,880 off the coast of Argentina they're 555 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:06,120 obviously British but people like Leo 556 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,360 McDonald say no way they've never been 557 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:11,080 under Argentina rule they will always 558 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:13,799 remain British well they've never been 559 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:17,240 uh under Argentina because Argentina was 560 00:25:13,799 --> 00:25:20,440 itself colonized at the time the British 561 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:24,919 colonized the malvinas it's time for 562 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:28,320 some political organization to uh must 563 00:25:24,919 --> 00:25:30,559 up the courage to say look actually we 564 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,240 we can't even exploit the oil and gas 565 00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:36,000 off the forlands as long as this 566 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:38,120 situation uh continues to persist so 567 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,440 it's in everybody's interest and that's 568 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:42,520 all for this week which unfortunately 569 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,120 means that's the end of the show do 570 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,679 please keep in touch with us on Twitter 571 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:49,240 at rtor Sputnik and on Facebook you can 572 00:25:46,679 --> 00:25:51,279 like us on Sputnik on Russia today it's 573 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:55,360 goodbye from me gatri and from me George 574 00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:55,360 Galloway it's been marvelous 575 00:25:56,340 --> 00:26:01,400 [Music] 576 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:08,390 oh 577 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:08,390 [Music] 578 00:26:10,750 --> 00:26:16,430 [Music]