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[Music]

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I

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and only me

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today Joseph is on honeymoon and gatri

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will be back from maternity leave next

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week God willing I have a long history

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with Pakistan I hold the country's two

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highest civil Awards the halali kaasm

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for my work on the restoration of

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democracy in the country in the 1980s

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and the halali Pakistan for my work on

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the issue of Kashmir over more than 30

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years I have the closest possible

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relationship with pakistanis in Britain

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too and so events unfolding there now

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are of the greatest possible interest to

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me but also should be to you the old war

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horse now Sharif is back in office if

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not in power as prime minister again the

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last time he was prime minister the Army

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overthrew him and they just might be

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about to do so again the proximate cause

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is a mass Uprising in involving hundreds

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of thousands of people on the streets of

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the capital Islamabad alleging

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corruption cronyism and incompetence

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most pakistanis think the protesters may

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have a point this street power though

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doesn't have the international support

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of some other recent examples but that

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doesn't mean it's doomed to fail joining

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us to try to make sense of it all is

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moraza Ali sha a famous uk-based

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Pakistani journalist and broadcaster

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moraza thanks for joining us let's deal

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with the numbers first is it a mass

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Uprising are there hundreds of thousands

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of people there are actually thousands

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of people um uh it's a very significant

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number of people who have come out on

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the streets of Islamabad and the fact

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that these people have come to the

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capital of Pakistan really you know

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makes it quite significant and there's

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live 24/7 coverage in the whole world

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actually you know watching Pakistan

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is taking a keen interest in what is

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unfolding in Islamabad there are two

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parties which have brought their

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followers to Islam Abad to uh seeking

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resignation of prime minister Nas Sharif

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uh religious leader Dr T kadri's party

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who has with him about 30,000 plus

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followers and then Imran Khan's Pakistan

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tarq insaf who traveled all the way from

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lore to Islamabad uh he had his like

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initially camp with about 25 to 30,000

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people but uh his uh sitting is kind of

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different from Dr tul Kadri sitting

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because Imran Khan's followers uh you

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know in the morning time late at night

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they go home and they assemble again in

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the evening while Dr T kadri's followers

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are sitting there living there and they

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are constantly staying there but yes

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there are very significant numbers just

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a few 100 meters away from prime

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minister's house which is called the Red

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Zone area and uh that presence there

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makes it all the more important is he

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nervous the Prime Minister na Sharif

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perhaps not nervous about the numbers

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being able to force him out but being

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able to as it were precipitate yet

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another military Jun intervening you are

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absolutely right I mean there is lot of

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not only nervousness but uh there is

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fear within you know uh the government

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and opposition Circle that there may be

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a bigger conspiracy at play because what

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has happened here is that Imran Khan and

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Kadri you know they initially said that

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they are two very different actors you

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know not acting in unison or anything

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like that but they left lore on the same

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day they arrived at the same time and

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then they started their March from

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Islamabad to breach the Red Zone which

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was prohibited by the Supreme Court and

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by the Pakistani government they have so

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far almost acted in junan and that is

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what makes prime minister Nas Sharif and

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including the main opposition parties

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kind of nervous they believe that there

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are probably some forces you know though

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one of those hidden hands who maybe you

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know pulling their strings so far it

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looks that there is certain section

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within the Pakistan establishment which

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is supporting these elements but NAD

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Sharif has met the chief of Army staff

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General rahil Sharif his brother shabas

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shif has met him today Nas sh appeared

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before Pakistan National Assembly he had

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grin on grin on his face he looked

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confident and the National Assembly

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unanimously today has passed a

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resolution rejecting the

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unconstitutional illegal demands made by

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Imran Khan and Dr tul Kadri now viewers

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will be familiar with Imran Khan

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formerly a great uh International

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cricketer uh reformed his life became a

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kind of islamist uh leader has several

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times now promised to break through into

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power in Pakistan but not managed to do

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so but probably most people will not

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have heard of the second fellow he's a

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Canadian citizen tell us about him

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what's his religious political agenda

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well Dr Kadri actually he comes from

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very humble beginnings he used to work

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for a religious school which was run by

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sh's family Nas sh and shabas sharif's

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family and then he set up he is from

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moderate Sunni section of Islam he's not

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one of those extremist he's one of those

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peers and you know holy spiritual

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figures uh but the difference between

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him and other you know spiritual figures

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is that now Dr Kadri you know he wants

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to get into power but what does he want

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to do with it has he got an agenda well

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he only he probably has an agenda but he

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does not know how to get into Power

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because the last time he stood in

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elections he won only one seat and he

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later on on he you know submitted

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resignation and he left Pakistan he

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sought asylum in Canada so Dr Kadri

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wants to get into power but he knows

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that if he goes to the elections he

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cannot win but again he wants into power

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so he wants some sort of military CP he

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wants some sort of intervention from

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Divine forces or from military

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establishment for from so who whosoever

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whichever power who could actually put

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him into power now that is where he gets

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very confused and the people like you

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know his followers are there but the

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rest of the Pakistan is not take him

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seriously he has very good words to say

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he talks you know a lot of makes a lot

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of sense about a lot of things that he

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says but everybody understand that he

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does not have the power or you know the

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number of people that are required to

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put him in through a legitimate

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Democratic process so he wants some kind

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of you know a new Pakistan where through

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a miracle he could get into power that

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is not going to happen as long as

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Pakistan is a functioning Democratic

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country if there is a coup if there is

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you know kind of an you know a massive

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Uprising or a situation where the whole

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system is put upside down that is the

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only chance kri has on the other hand

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Imran Khan has a large number of you

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know genuine followers he has been

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through political process now he has a

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lot of presence in Pakistan National

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Assembly he won elections in in one of

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the most crucial provinces of Pakistan

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kabar pakun which borders Afghanistan he

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has a government there now the very you

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know interesting thing here is that

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Imran has power in one Province he is

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crying that there has been Mass skill

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rigging in elections he's not talking

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about the province which he rules but he

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believes that there has been rigging in

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Punjab believes he was cheated in laor

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and cheated also in Karachi the whole

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struggle is actually about Punjab and

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that's where he's focusing on because

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you know the power base in Pakistan is

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Punjab he Imran Khan Frankly Speaking

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did not want to rule Pon he won it and

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he's in a state of dilemma I mean you

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know he has to now do something it's

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quite a hot potato

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ruling now we both know uh sadly that

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for almost exactly half of its existence

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Pakistan has lived under military rule

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yeah uh so governments come to power and

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habitually they're then overturned and

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there's a period of military rule

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followed by return to democracy and so

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on as regular as

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Clockwork that uh process by which you

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said Sharif met the chief of Army staff

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and had a smile on his face there have

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been other Pakistani leaders who have

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met Chiefs of Staff and emerged with

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smile on their face only later to be

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overthrown uh tell us about the chief of

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Army staff is he the kind of fellow that

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might do as his predecessors have done

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it looks difficult at this stage I mean

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although it's a fact that Pakistan Army

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is upset with Naas on a lot of issues

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especially on the issue of Peres mashar

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this is the former military Chief became

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a dictator president absolutely and now

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Naas sh actually is trying him through

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courts and wants to indict him on

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treason charges and a lot of you know

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other charges that has hugely upset

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Pakistan Army and uh many commentators

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actually say that a lot of you know the

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the movement that is going on right now

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has its links with Pakistan Army's anger

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with Nas's policies but the difficulty

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with Pakistan Army would be that it was

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you can see only recently that mashar

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has been there in power and his you

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know if the fact that he was in the

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power there was riseing militancy in

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Pakistan Pakistan went into Coalition

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with America and it did not bring any

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good name to Pakistan Army it looks like

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that Pakistan Army will not do any

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direct intervention it can be you know

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soft kind of intervent intervention

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through Dr Kadri and Imran Khan but uh

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it will be very difficult for Pakistan

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Army to actually just literally go for

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an allout coup uh because that will

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definitely not be accepted by the people

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of Pakistan and then that makes Naas

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Sharif look like a victim now the

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elections were uh clear enough by

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Pakistani standards Naas Sharif won them

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quite handsomely yeah one of the claims

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by these twin Columns of oppositionists

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is that these elections were rigged were

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they yes elections were not perfect uh

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they were rigged in some parts but uh

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they were not rigged in the the manner

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that Imran Khan Imran Khan's allegation

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is that elections were rigged because he

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did not win if Imran Khan had won he

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would not have cried you know any kind

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of rigging now Imran Khan you know the

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way it happened Imran Khan may have

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actually I mean he does not talk I mean

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pakun he won really you know a handsome

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majority so he thinks that is fine

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rigging took place all over Pakistan but

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that was because of the flaws in

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Pakistan's electoral system it's not it

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does not mean that Imran Khan was

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actually there was a conspiracy to rig

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elections against Imran because the

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rigging took place against many other

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moderate parties including you know well

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the muta Kumi movement and aami National

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Party and Pakistan People's Party benir

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bto's Party they were literally in some

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areas not allowed to run election

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00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,560
campaign because Taliban were you know

275
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,079
attacking them murdering them killing

276
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:25,079
them all so there was I mean these are

277
00:11:23,079 --> 00:11:27,079
like elections were really rigged in

278
00:11:25,079 --> 00:11:29,480
many many ways but it does not mean that

279
00:11:27,079 --> 00:11:32,480
they were rigged particularly against

280
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:35,839
Imran Khan or in favor of Shar just uh

281
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,920
quickly moraza is the Pakistani media

282
00:11:35,839 --> 00:11:41,480
covering all that's happening in Islam

283
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:43,440
Abad are they allowed to are TV stations

284
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,800
being closed down and so on George

285
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,639
Pakistani media has not covered anything

286
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,639
else since this whole uh you know

287
00:11:47,639 --> 00:11:52,079
movement started that is the only new

288
00:11:49,639 --> 00:11:54,079
story in Pakistan nothing else matters

289
00:11:52,079 --> 00:11:56,000
now many people are saying that if only

290
00:11:54,079 --> 00:11:58,120
Pakistani TV channels are Switched Off

291
00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,880
the revolution will die down but because

292
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:03,279
there is coverage 2 2 47 on two camps

293
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:06,320
and just Pakistan is really hooked to

294
00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:08,880
what is happening and Imran Khan and Dr

295
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,079
T Kadri are aware of this fact and to

296
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,240
keep the people entertaining they have

297
00:12:11,079 --> 00:12:16,000
introduced many live music acts you know

298
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:18,440
Bangla pop rock lot of Acts into their

299
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,160
uh respective crowds you know uh keep

300
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,160
the people and themselves entertained so

301
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,440
yes uh and is the weather good enough to

302
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,440
keep them there or it's quite hot yes

303
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,639
but uh it's fine it's it's better than

304
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,639
before well we'll watch it with interest

305
00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:34,199
M do I thanks for uh enlightening us on

306
00:12:31,639 --> 00:12:36,000
what's happening in Pakistan coming up

307
00:12:34,199 --> 00:12:38,800
after the break we're remembering the

308
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:41,160
slave trade Britain's role in it and the

309
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,519
total failure to make reparation for one

310
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:46,880
of the greatest crimes of modern history

311
00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:46,880
don't miss it I'll be right

312
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:54,680
back welcome back to Sputnik thousands

313
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:57,079
of African-Americans are protesting on

314
00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:59,160
the streets of Ferguson Missouri and

315
00:12:57,079 --> 00:13:01,720
some of them are being metaphorically

316
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:04,920
lynched by white overseers otherwise

317
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:07,880
known as the police but how did so many

318
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,839
Africans end up in America just like the

319
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,279
black people in Britain mainly from the

320
00:13:09,839 --> 00:13:14,880
Caribbean they are the descendants of

321
00:13:12,279 --> 00:13:17,240
slaves men and women who were Chained

322
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,279
and Shackled thrown into the holds of

323
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,560
leaking vessels sailed across the

324
00:13:19,279 --> 00:13:25,320
Atlantic and sold as beasts of burden to

325
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:27,760
White plantation owners all concerned

326
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:30,639
made an unhealthy profit except for the

327
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:34,079
slaves whose lives were nasty brutish

328
00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:37,399
and short on board the Sputnik today we

329
00:13:34,079 --> 00:13:40,600
have historian writer and broadcaster SI

330
00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:43,000
Martin who wanted to talk about unesco's

331
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,560
International Day for the remembrance of

332
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:48,399
the slave trade and its abolition which

333
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:51,480
is today the reason slavery Remembrance

334
00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:53,880
Day is on the 23rd of August is to Mark

335
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,839
the anniversary of the first successful

336
00:13:53,880 --> 00:14:00,800
slave Uprising it took place in

337
00:13:56,839 --> 00:14:02,839
1791 in Santo Domingo now Haiti I

338
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,639
thought Ferguson Missouri was the

339
00:14:02,839 --> 00:14:09,079
perfect backdrop in front of which to do

340
00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:12,959
so tell us please if I'm right about

341
00:14:09,079 --> 00:14:15,720
that are we seeing in Ferguson a part of

342
00:14:12,959 --> 00:14:18,440
the legacy of the slave trade the

343
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:21,079
abolition of which we are commemorating

344
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,880
today yes this is a definite and very

345
00:14:21,079 --> 00:14:27,560
very clear uh continuity behind the

346
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:30,040
attitudes which resulted in the rioting

347
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:32,240
in uh Ferguson and the legacy of the

348
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,040
slave trade and the move the buying and

349
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,279
selling of human beings especially in

350
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:40,040
North America we have to remember even

351
00:14:36,279 --> 00:14:42,759
after being um uh even after uh partial

352
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:46,320
abolition the life of a black person was

353
00:14:42,759 --> 00:14:50,639
inlaw less um a white man a white person

354
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:53,079
usually a white man had no uh need to

355
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:55,480
respect any of the rights that a black

356
00:14:53,079 --> 00:14:59,560
person had and this is manifested in the

357
00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:01,680
treatment of an alleged uh um

358
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,279
criminal or lower class uh person of

359
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,560
African origin like Michael Brown and in

360
00:15:04,279 --> 00:15:09,160
the treatment up to including Barack

361
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:11,759
Obama who as president is just held to

362
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:14,040
much stricter laws much stricter uh

363
00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:16,320
tighter focus on his behavior and his

364
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,120
responses than um any of his white

365
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,360
predecessors so we are still living with

366
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,880
this Legacy it's not gone yet and it's

367
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:25,680
not ancient history because Barack

368
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:28,079
Obama's father would not have been

369
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:31,800
allowed to take his lunch at the same

370
00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:34,959
counter as a white person yeah in the 19

371
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,480
early 1960s in the late 1950s yeah I

372
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:39,160
mean this is the thing that we do forget

373
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,959
that it is within the lifetimes of many

374
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:44,240
of us and there's always an urge just to

375
00:15:41,959 --> 00:15:47,680
try and forget to say well

376
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:49,839
1964 um um all of the civil rights

377
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,680
legislation which passed after that um

378
00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:56,040
has drawn a curtain over it and it's

379
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:57,480
like an it's like a live rail um when

380
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,519
you're talking about any sorts of

381
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:02,000
histories all sorts of atoc can be

382
00:15:59,519 --> 00:16:03,720
discussed freely relatively openly but

383
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,959
when you talk about enslavement

384
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,319
especially in Great Britain and in the

385
00:16:05,959 --> 00:16:10,759
United States to a less degree it's

386
00:16:08,319 --> 00:16:14,519
something that people Flinch away from

387
00:16:10,759 --> 00:16:17,000
and um it's you know the Remembrance Day

388
00:16:14,519 --> 00:16:18,440
is part of adjusting the focus on that

389
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,240
well uh we'll talk about Britain that's

390
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:24,920
an interesting point um but let's pause

391
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:28,000
to remember that great slave Uprising in

392
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:31,079
Haiti what is now Haiti which uh

393
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:34,360
overthrew slavery I mean there is a

394
00:16:31,079 --> 00:16:36,720
tendency in the West in Britain and

395
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:40,399
elsewhere to think that slavery was

396
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:43,480
ended by benevolent old white men who

397
00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:45,519
couldn't countenance such cruelty uh but

398
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:49,800
in part of course it was the threat of

399
00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:51,240
Revolution abut in the slave slave areas

400
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,880
uh that terrified them tell us about

401
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,240
that Uprising oh I'd say George it's

402
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,759
more than the threat of Revolution it's

403
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,399
was the reality of it we have to

404
00:16:55,759 --> 00:17:00,040
remember that every 10 to 15 years um

405
00:16:58,399 --> 00:17:03,199
actually every 10 years there'd be a

406
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:07,280
major Uprising throughout the Caribbean

407
00:17:03,199 --> 00:17:09,640
um or Latin America and large numbers of

408
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:12,160
white British lives were lost um so this

409
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:14,520
was a constant danger tell me about this

410
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,079
country because it's easy for us to

411
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,600
cluck cluck about the American police

412
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:22,480
shooting down black people in Ferguson

413
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:25,640
Missouri but there's a temptation to

414
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:27,839
forget that uh policemen have shot down

415
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,559
black people here in London and

416
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:33,480
elsewhere in brit

417
00:17:29,559 --> 00:17:36,160
to what extent is the United States only

418
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:39,160
as in many things a bigger and more

419
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:41,640
Brash expression of the kind of racism

420
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,799
that underpin slavery than we have here

421
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,000
in Britain but actually not that much

422
00:17:43,799 --> 00:17:47,480
different yeah this is an interesting

423
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,960
one because although it is different

424
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,080
there are very clear differences due to

425
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,400
the fact that there wasn't Plantation

426
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,760
slavery in these islands you did have

427
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,679
people who were enslaved but you also

428
00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,039
had people of African origin living here

429
00:17:57,679 --> 00:18:02,960
for centuries who were free and this has

430
00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:05,400
sort of blurred the interpretation of um

431
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,520
enslavement and how African population

432
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,679
origin people are treated here because

433
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,000
slavery and slav was something that the

434
00:18:09,679 --> 00:18:14,200
majority of people happened out of sight

435
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,240
out of mind and compounded to that you

436
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:19,600
have the reality that with the abolition

437
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,640
movement you have the first genuine Mass

438
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,320
popular movement in this country went

439
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,400
across classes and even reluctantly for

440
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,520
men of the great many of the Great and

441
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:30,000
good included women so it's a little bit

442
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,120
more Nuance in the United States but the

443
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,559
fundamental deal is still there the

444
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:36,080
fundamental elements are still in

445
00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:40,640
position um who are these populations of

446
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:43,960
African origin now that um they have um

447
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,640
been given um a a small part of Freedom

448
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,640
what do we do with them how do we treat

449
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,280
them um what are their civil rights so

450
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,880
the same story does play out on both

451
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:55,240
sides of the Atlantic but one of the

452
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:59,240
major things is that in these islands we

453
00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:01,960
tend to um compare ourselves constantly

454
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:06,559
with um America America seems the super

455
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:10,080
reality and um there's a very overly

456
00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:14,480
favorable attitude to um the fact that

457
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:17,520
the British um uh emancipated um many of

458
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,679
their insl aved people in 1833 the

459
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,480
Americans had well they take another 33

460
00:19:19,679 --> 00:19:23,840
years to do the same so there's a lot of

461
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,000
um self- congratulatory back patting

462
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,720
which goes on which really obscures the

463
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,840
reality that no uh enslavement did

464
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,919
didn't really end right there and right

465
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,880
then it was an ongoing long drawn out

466
00:19:32,919 --> 00:19:37,320
process which was still taking Parts in

467
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,880
other parts of the uh British Empire and

468
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,480
the mentality that justified it because

469
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,520
clearly you could only enslave another

470
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,240
human being if your underlying

471
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:49,559
assumption was that he was in your

472
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:52,120
inferior you were his Superior hasn't uh

473
00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:54,799
died even a century later in the United

474
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:57,400
States in Ferguson it's clear and you

475
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:59,640
could say that in uh some recent

476
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,720
incidents uh here in London and

477
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:05,280
elsewhere in the United Kingdom the same

478
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,880
mentality that black people are a

479
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:11,159
problem that has to be contained

480
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:13,200
absolutely and if necessary with gunfire

481
00:20:11,159 --> 00:20:15,880
yeah I mean this couldn't be more clear

482
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,320
than um with your um in the incident

483
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,600
Illustrated in your opening remarks I

484
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:23,280
mean we've just seen um all sorts of

485
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:26,320
exotic weaponry and Firearms being used

486
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:28,720
against um the citizenry of Ferguson

487
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,840
Missouri but compare and contrast that

488
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:33,640
to the response at the Bundy Ranch in

489
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,840
Nevada where you had hundreds of white

490
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,159
men who were armed many of them with

491
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,679
automatic weapons trained on local

492
00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:42,840
National and federal officials who

493
00:20:40,679 --> 00:20:45,679
agreed to just reason with them

494
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,919
peacefully and ultimately back down and

495
00:20:45,679 --> 00:20:51,080
um take the back seat in front of this

496
00:20:47,919 --> 00:20:55,360
awesome display of Firepower had those

497
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:56,960
um individuals um um in Nevada been of

498
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,880
African origin I think we know what the

499
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,720
outcome would have been yeah yeah no

500
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:05,400
doubt about that and Barack Obama hasn't

501
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:09,280
made much of a difference it's a pitiful

502
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:12,080
Epitaph to a pitiful presidency that

503
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:14,960
he's looking towards the end of his term

504
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:17,200
now he's on Martha's Vineyard having a

505
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,200
whe of a Time whilst black people in

506
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,880
America are being gunned down in

507
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,520
Missouri yes but that's inevitable I

508
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,320
mean we've seen this play out time and

509
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,600
again during his presidency um he's does

510
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:31,679
not and he cannot feel in a position to

511
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:35,520
come out um literally all guns blazing

512
00:21:31,679 --> 00:21:37,840
on the part of um his uh uh black fellow

513
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,760
citizens because he will be branded as a

514
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:43,600
fire brand here is someone for whom a

515
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:46,440
large portion of the American uh voting

516
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,880
public has enormous resentment they call

517
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:51,799
him all sorts of names he's a fascist as

518
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:53,720
well as being a socialist um he's a

519
00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:56,600
Godless atheist as well as being a

520
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:59,440
Muslim um he's an elitist as well as

521
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:02,080
being a thug he is cont AED and

522
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,960
controlled um by public opinion and

523
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,000
public responses majority population

524
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,720
that is in the same way as the

525
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,400
populations on Ferguson are controlled

526
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,200
um by now National Guardsmen and local

527
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,240
police but he doesn't have to face can't

528
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,880
face any more elections this is true we

529
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,720
could be seeing now if he wanted us to

530
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:23,559
the real Barack Obama I presume I

531
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:26,000
presume that's what we are seeing uh

532
00:22:23,559 --> 00:22:27,600
tell us about the UNESCO day how is it

533
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,120
marked what's the point of it what

534
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,400
should people do about it

535
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:33,320
okay um the UNESCO day for the

536
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:36,240
international um day for the remembrance

537
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,360
of the slave trade and its abolition is

538
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,679
basically a way of keeping the

539
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:42,480
conversation going it's a way of talking

540
00:22:39,679 --> 00:22:45,880
about the largest forced uh mass

541
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:49,360
movement of uh people in human history

542
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:51,960
and its ongoing Legacy and impacts and

543
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:53,360
um by way of marking it um various

544
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,960
points around the world particularly

545
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:58,880
here in London at the national Maritime

546
00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:03,640
Museum in uh Liverpool um there are a

547
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:05,480
day worth of events to just focus on the

548
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,919
lives that were lost and the cost that

549
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,120
was paid uh it's just a way of keeping

550
00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:12,640
the conversation going and uh

551
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:15,120
remembering that unbelievable loss of

552
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:19,120
human life what about reparation how

553
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:21,640
stands the uh because I mean for example

554
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:24,799
the the other Holocaust yeah yeah uh

555
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,400
with a capital age in which millions and

556
00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:28,640
millions of people

557
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:32,520
perished is subject to a lot of

558
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:35,440
reparations yeah uh Financial political

559
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:38,559
uh many other kinds of reparations the

560
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:42,799
slave trade equally a

561
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:46,320
holocaust uh remains uh unrepaired no

562
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:48,080
one has paid anything to the people who

563
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,279
are the descendants of those who

564
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:53,200
suffered that yes because again

565
00:23:50,279 --> 00:23:56,080
underlying that difference in response

566
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:58,520
is the perceived and enforced different

567
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:02,320
in difference in value between various

568
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:04,039
populations groups and clearly you even

569
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,520
talking about this as I said before it's

570
00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:09,440
a live wire talking and broing the

571
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:11,600
subject of this crime which is what it

572
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,600
was these series of crimes is

573
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,840
extraordinarily difficult and the

574
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,240
subject of reparations it comes up all

575
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,720
the time um CARICOM the CARICOM

576
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,799
countries Caribbean uh economic

577
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:26,960
Community um they drafted a set of

578
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:29,200
proposals to uh jumpstart dialogue with

579
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:33,240
European nations it was beautifully

580
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:36,360
crafted um uh full of elegant jurist

581
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:40,679
prudence and ethics and morality and all

582
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:43,480
of the other elements which are which um

583
00:24:40,679 --> 00:24:46,640
entities like National governments and

584
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:49,320
um multinational companies would are

585
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:51,880
specifically formed to IGN ignore it's a

586
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:54,880
strange one this because though the

587
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:58,039
movement for reparations is growing um

588
00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:00,000
within populations of African origin um

589
00:24:58,039 --> 00:25:02,880
I think more tools are needed because

590
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,080
the tools that have been used before um

591
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:09,240
various forms of

592
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:11,679
um legal approaches the moral approach

593
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,679
kumb arism as I call it I'm not sure

594
00:25:11,679 --> 00:25:16,279
they're going to be working you don't

595
00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:18,320
think they'll ever be paying up not

596
00:25:16,279 --> 00:25:20,240
based on an appeal to reason or an

597
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,679
appeal to Common Humanity because when

598
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,919
we're talking about they we are talking

599
00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:25,399
about National governments and

600
00:25:22,919 --> 00:25:27,520
multinational corporations who do not

601
00:25:25,399 --> 00:25:29,480
respond to that who cannot well

602
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,480
unfortunately that's all we've got time

603
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:35,000
for remember you can follow us on

604
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:37,440
Twitter at rtor Sputnik or on Facebook

605
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,799
you can like us at Sputnik on Russia

606
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:43,000
today I've been George Galloway it's

607
00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:43,000
been marvelous

608
00:25:44,220 --> 00:25:47,329
[Music]

609
00:25:57,180 --> 00:26:04,189
[Music]