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[Music]

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three I

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me Joseph

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Hyatt standing in for gadri who is on

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holiday kobani is not Stalingrad nothing

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is like Stalingrad but the Syrian

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Kurdish city of kabani is certainly

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writing its name into the history books

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just yards from the Turkish border the

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city is being half overrun by the

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Savages of Isis but every street in

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every house is being contested by the

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young Kurdistan fighters of the ypg

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which is the youth section of the local

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chapter of the pkk the Kurdistan Workers

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Party listed bizarrely as a terrorist

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organization by both the US and EU who

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now back the Kurds of course the pkk in

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the fight against Isis the fighters are

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young left and a huge number of them are

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women it would be the stuff of a

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Hollywood movie if it were not for the

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nightmare of the actuality captured

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Fighters being beheaded their eyes

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gouged out women being raped by the oh

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so holy Warriors of the Isis 80-year-old

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men have had their heads cut off in

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front of their families children and

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grandchildren sometimes this story moves

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beyond words at least any words that I

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can find joining us now is a man of many

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words and good ones too Kurdish activist

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and writer mmed axoy mmed you've got

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your ear to the ground uh in and around

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kobani what's the military situation

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first of all there on the ground in the

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city now well the most recent

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information is that uh the ypg and ypj

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the women section of the Defense Forces

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have taken back 85% of uh the city um

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and Sali Muslim has stated that

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Liberation is very near for kobani so

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positive things are happening um on the

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East and Southern fronts um Isis have

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been pushed back to almost outside uh

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the city they only control some of the

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villages that are attached to kobani um

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and some uh some neighborhoods on the

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outskirts of the city uh so I think that

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over the next few days Isis will be

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pushed back even further and hopefully

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uh we'll we'll leave C money is is that

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possible is a is a victory possible and

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a and a defeat for Isis possible and if

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so what would be the implications of

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that what would happen next well I think

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the Coalition forces have changed attack

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um after seeing that uh that kobani

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isn't falling um they waited for 2 3

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weeks car said it wasn't part of their

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strategy to avoid it falling I think

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with the with the Turkish States uh uh

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approach to kobani um and being a NATO

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member being part of the Coalition the

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Coalition wanted kobani to fall but when

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it didn't fall and when International

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public opinion swung in favor of the

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Kurds and kobani um they had to take

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steps so now uh just yesterday the

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Kurdistan Regional government uh

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Parliament uh uh accepted a motion to uh

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recognize the cantons of rojava kobani

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being one of them which wouldn't have

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happened without the Americans giving

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the go-ahead um also Isis are being

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defeated in certain parts of Iraq

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certain Sunni um tribes have uh taken

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begun to rise up against them exactly uh

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so I think Isis are being pushed back on

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all fronts um and you can see this uh in

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in the reflection of this in kobani as

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well uh what will this mean this will

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mean that other forces other powers need

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to fill in that vacuum in rojava in

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kobani the Kurds already have an

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Administration they have people they

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have Fighters um and the same needs to

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happen in in other parts in raka in

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Rabia in Tad um so uh Arab uh tribes um

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the other ethnic groups in the region

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the other religious groups need to fill

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in that power vacuum well we'll talk

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about the Arabs in a minute I want to

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talk about the Turkish position first it

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was I would assume a matter

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of Shame consternation certainly uh or

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for turkey's friends and allies in NATO

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to see a huge Turkish military force at

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the fence on the border able to see if

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they had field glasses at least the

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beheadings and the

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murders uh but not being prepared to

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lift a finger and worse not being

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allowed to uh not being prepared to

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allow the gate to be open so that

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Turkish Kurds could enter and come to

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the side of their Brethren and sisters

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uh fighting there uh but the impact

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amongst the Kurdish public opinion in

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turkey has been dramatic and it now

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endangers the peace process between the

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pkk and the erdogan government tell us

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about that

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well this the position of the Turkish

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government uh the erdogan government for

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two years has been one of supporting

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uh the fundamentalist extremist groups

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in Syria against the Assad regime they

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expected the Assad regime to fall very

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quickly the Kurds who have been who were

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fighting the Assad regime since 2004 did

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not take active active arms against

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Assad instead they they built up their

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own administrations Turkey were very

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afraid of this because they thought it

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would reflect badly according to them on

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the Kurds of Turkey um so they were

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supporting first the al-nusra front

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which then is alqaeda affiliate

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affiliate which Isis broke off of um and

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obviously UK EU us governments were also

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supporting the free Syrian Army and the

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Syrian National Coalition um against

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Assad so all the arms that were provided

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by these forces went into the went to

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into the hands of these extremist forces

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um the Kurds meanwhile refused to take a

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part in this uh because one it didn't

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recognize Kurdish Administration it

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didn't recognize Kurdish rights and

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autonomy in Northern Syria um so over

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the last two years the Kurds have been

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putting up a fight the International

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Community media turn a blind eye to it

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turkey was funding letting these groups

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through their borders but in the last

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two three months the international media

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has taken paid attention to it uh but

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turkey hasn't changed its T um first it

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said we've got 49 hostages um who were

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taken that was their excuse then they

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got them back then they got them back in

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uh return for the release of about 180

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Isis members apparently who were being

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held by turkey

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um so Turkey were actually negotiating

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with a terrorist

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organization um and then uh after this

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excuse was taken away they still refused

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as you said to let the people across the

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border um because the Kurds wanted a

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corridor to be opened well that's they

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they want uh Turkish occupation of the

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north of Syria what they call a buffer

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zone what anyone else would call an

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occupation presumably the Kurds have no

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interest in agreeing to that no they

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want a buffal Zone and they want a no

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fly zone do Isis have any planes no why

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do they want a no fly zone against Assad

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turkey and especially the AKP regime

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have banked on a Sunni Corridor being

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open through Syria going through Iraq

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and the rest of the region they want a

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Sunni dominated

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sectarian uh divide in the region to

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serve their own Neo ottoman purposes or

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or ideology um their paradigm the way

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they see the Middle East is through this

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new otoman prism um and the fall of

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Assad was going to make this possible

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for them but it's worked out exactly in

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the opposite direction D dulu was

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regularly saying in a matter of weeks

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Bashar will fall and of course three and

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a bit years on now he's not Fallen he's

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not going to fall at least in those

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parts of Syria that he and the regime

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currently hold let's talk about the uh

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the popularity or otherwise of erdogan's

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line the alevi people are against it the

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Kurdish people are against it the left

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such as it is now in Turkey is against

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it one imagines that those elements

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inside the armed forces that don't like

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erdogan don't much fancy a war in Syria

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if I'm right about that then the erdogan

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position is quite precarious only has

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it's a good score 47% but it's not a

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majority and it's certainly not an

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overwhelming majority no and also

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International forces are also against it

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now America um the France uh the UK are

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starting to uh accept a future with

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Assad rather than without Assad and this

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is the most this is the key I think

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apart from internal opposition external

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opposition has swung uh against erogan

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as well um Within turkey as with the

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gizi protests as with the recent

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protests for kobani there's a very very

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strong opposition against the erdogan

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regime which is becoming ever more

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authoritarian um in its policies as well

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just the other day they passed the new

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bill um extending the police's um uh

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kind of Rights in in what they can do

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when against protests let's talk about

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the Arabs then quickly the situation in

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Iraq there's a new prime minister he's

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walked a different game from al- Malaki

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so far he hasn't really delivered one uh

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the image of the Central State in

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Baghdad is heavily tarnished by recent

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years you say that there are now some

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signs of the Sunni tribes in the west of

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Iraq in the north and west of Iraq

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beginning to turn against Isis tell us

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something about that that's new well uh

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from what I've read from the media um uh

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uh three or four tribes have come

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together one very important tribe in

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deror I think uh in in that region um

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has started fighting Isis um on on the

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ground on ground level um I think it's

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very important that these tribes come

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out um and and unite um and have a

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strong government behind them to fight

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extremist forces like Isis because uh

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that's the only way that as I said they

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can fill in that power vacuum otherwise

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forces like Isis which have fighers from

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all over the world I call them

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International hitmen for finance Capital

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um will continue kind of borrowing into

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that uh into into the region if the

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local people if the tribes there don't

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put up a strong stand this can only

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happen though if things aren't done

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along for example ethnic or religious

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lines um a sectarian war or uh uh kind

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of taking sides on a sectarian or ethnic

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uh along those divides will only lead to

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more conflict in the future so you know

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conflicts with Shia Muslims especially

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um the Kurds The Turk men um uh the

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Assyrians uh in that region the

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Christians all have the right to live in

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that region and they have to unite

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against in this case a common enemy like

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Isis Joseph you were very interested in

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the youthfulness and of course the high

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female component of this great battle in

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kobani weren't you ABS they're very

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impressive Force aren't they but the

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question is if there is a victory for

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them do you think it will change the

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circumstance that

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definitely um the reason why there are

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so many young people and so many women

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involved is because of the ideological

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standpoint of the of the Kurdish

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movement um they believe in a gender

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equal uh secular uh Democratic and

276
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communitarian society and system um the

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reason why these people find their

278
00:12:17,279 --> 00:12:21,480
future in this system is because it's

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not drawn along gender lines it's not

280
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drawn along ethnic or religious lines

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and this uh the the administrations in

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rojava in Northern Syria including

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kobani um will bring about a change will

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spread this change across the region

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people see their future in this system

286
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:41,279
in this Administration which accepts the

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a uh the the Armenians um the Assyrians

288
00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:46,000
the Arabs living uh there which gives

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them the power to uh decide on their own

290
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,959
fate decide on their own future and it's

291
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localized power uh it's it's a it's uh

292
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the um uh the penicillin if you will for

293
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uh Nation statism uh for patriarchy uh

294
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for uh Finance Capital uh industrialism

295
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which is killing the killing the

296
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environment and the ecological uh health

297
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of the of the region really so I think

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that a victory for kobani a victory for

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Northern Syria for the Kurds and the

300
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,279
other ethnic groups there will mean a

301
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:18,079
victory for the rest of the Middle East

302
00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:21,959
in a nutshell cuz we only got time for a

303
00:13:18,079 --> 00:13:24,639
nutshell chances of pkk being taken off

304
00:13:21,959 --> 00:13:26,000
the terror list now well this is the

305
00:13:24,639 --> 00:13:28,760
only way that there's going to be a

306
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:31,240
solution in Turkey um we liken it a

307
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:35,560
little bit to thec and to Nelson Mandela

308
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:37,760
situation um if the EU if the UK uh if

309
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:39,600
the US want peace in Turkey if they want

310
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the war to end for there to be stability

311
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,680
there not just in Turkey but in Iran

312
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,399
Iraq and Syria then the pkk need to be

313
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,360
taken off the terrorist list which will

314
00:13:45,399 --> 00:13:48,639
also strengthen the hand of the Turkish

315
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,519
State and the Turkish government because

316
00:13:48,639 --> 00:13:52,040
then they won't be in negotiation with a

317
00:13:50,519 --> 00:13:54,320
group that's on the terrorist list and

318
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:57,360
it will also help us Kurdish activists

319
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,160
openly do more activism to help uh

320
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,079
democracy in the region as well because

321
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,000
now we're criminalized whenever we try

322
00:14:01,079 --> 00:14:05,399
to help the pkk or the Kurdish movement

323
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:08,279
in general um so it's a win-win

324
00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:10,399
situation if the pkk are Dlisted M

325
00:14:08,279 --> 00:14:12,440
thanks for joining us on the Sputnik

326
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coming up after the break an interview

327
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with Dennis Halliday formerly a big wig

328
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,880
with the United Nations gatri and I

329
00:14:17,639 --> 00:14:24,000
caught him in London when he was passing

330
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,000
through just last week

331
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:39,120
welcome back to Sputnik Dennis Halliday

332
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:42,320
is one of the most noble men I've ever

333
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:44,480
known an Irish man he spent decades in

334
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,240
the United Nations reaching the Dizzy

335
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:49,839
Heights of assistant Secretary General

336
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:52,720
he was posted to Iraq during the oil for

337
00:14:49,839 --> 00:14:55,839
food program to avert a catastrophe in

338
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:58,680
which an Iraqi child was dying every 6

339
00:14:55,839 --> 00:15:00,920
minutes of every day and night through

340
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,639
San itions Dennis took a good look

341
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:06,000
around he did everything that he could

342
00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:09,120
before deciding he couldn't take it

343
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:11,040
anymore it would not be done in his name

344
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:14,199
and he walked becoming one of the few

345
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:18,079
men in public life to voluntarily walk

346
00:15:14,199 --> 00:15:20,320
away from a position of such importance

347
00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:22,440
gatri and I caught up with Dennis

348
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,079
Halliday when he passed through London

349
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:28,120
just last week and I started out by

350
00:15:25,079 --> 00:15:31,000
asking him do we really have a United

351
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:33,480
Nations anymore it has a big building

352
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,639
even bigger budgets but it might as well

353
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,880
not be there for all the good that it's

354
00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:39,720
doing yes I hate to admit that of course

355
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,880
I have to agree with that but let me

356
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,759
just say there are two United Nations

357
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:47,000
United Nations of the member states this

358
00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:49,079
is a States organized paid for managed

359
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,839
function the Secretary General and the

360
00:15:49,079 --> 00:15:55,079
staff is actually the second part of the

361
00:15:51,839 --> 00:15:56,880
equation the states in my view uh in

362
00:15:55,079 --> 00:15:59,480
terms of the real issues the peace

363
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,600
security well-being human rights working

364
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,040
through the security Council have failed

365
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,800
in fact they're showing signs I would

366
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:10,040
say of corruption and that's the tragedy

367
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:13,199
well the let's deal with the core of the

368
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:16,079
problem we have a situation now where

369
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:18,639
three out of the five permanent members

370
00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:21,519
are now repeatedly declaring war on

371
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:24,000
other states without now even putting

372
00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:26,600
the matter before the security Council

373
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:30,720
never mind taking its agreement or

374
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:32,759
Ascent uh to these uh policies yet these

375
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,319
five permanent members have a veto

376
00:16:32,759 --> 00:16:37,240
Forever on whether or not the security

377
00:16:35,319 --> 00:16:39,920
Council should be refashioned remodeled

378
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,839
reformed or even abolished well this is

379
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:46,399
our problem we now have member states

380
00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:48,079
who are not uh taking uh proper what's

381
00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:50,199
the word attention not paying proper

382
00:16:48,079 --> 00:16:52,880
attention to the to the Charter the

383
00:16:50,199 --> 00:16:55,639
charter makes it very clear in chapter 7

384
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,519
aggressive Warfare acts of aggression

385
00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:59,440
going to war preemptive strikes whatever

386
00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:01,319
it's called nowadays is is totally in

387
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,360
violation of international law in

388
00:17:01,319 --> 00:17:05,919
violation of the charter in violation of

389
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:09,000
the membership and as veto members of

390
00:17:05,919 --> 00:17:11,240
the five veto powers for them to break

391
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,280
these laws for them to go to war without

392
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,839
endorsement of the Security Council is

393
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,280
doubly dangerous and doubly undermining

394
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:19,640
of the whole organization and the

395
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,600
purpose of the organization particularly

396
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,439
as I said before in the security Council

397
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:26,480
which is so fundamental to World Peace

398
00:17:24,439 --> 00:17:28,960
where we do not have representation we

399
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:31,160
do not have democracy if you can believe

400
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,000
that we've allowed these five veto

401
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,559
Powers the so-called Victors of the

402
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,840
second world world war to stay in power

403
00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:39,919
to control the essential part of this

404
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,640
organization well that's a problem but

405
00:17:39,919 --> 00:17:45,039
an an even bigger problem is where any

406
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:47,400
number of members of the permanent five

407
00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:48,720
I've cited three United States Britain

408
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,160
and France because they have been

409
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:55,880
repeatedly doing it are doing it right

410
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:58,200
now uh in Syria and arguably in Iraq

411
00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,600
decide that if they can't get out from

412
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,760
under The veto power of the other

413
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,600
members of the permanent five well

414
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,159
they'll just go and do what they want

415
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,440
anyway yeah this is what underlines I

416
00:18:07,159 --> 00:18:11,240
think most the failure of the council

417
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,200
and the corruption of the council that

418
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,200
you have member states who are veto

419
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:18,039
member states permanent member states

420
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,720
and have been since 1945 are willing now

421
00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:21,960
to corrupt the this Charter and go

422
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,280
behind the regulations of the charter

423
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,360
which prevent any form of warfare

424
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:29,400
whether it's Wars of aggression

425
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:31,360
genocidal or whatever happen without

426
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,600
permission of the member states as per

427
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:35,799
the charter as per the other

428
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:39,120
arrangements that the security Council

429
00:18:35,799 --> 00:18:41,120
functions within uh to me this is the

430
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:43,320
end of the value added of the security

431
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,919
Council because you what example does

432
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,320
that set for the other countries SP

433
00:18:44,919 --> 00:18:49,000
smaller countries who want to aggress

434
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:53,159
against a neighbor who want to take on

435
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:55,960
some issue who want to take on some uh

436
00:18:53,159 --> 00:18:58,120
aggressive role I mean if the leadership

437
00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,400
and those held most responsible do not

438
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:02,120
respect the Charter why should anybody

439
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,520
else well let's take one of those

440
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:07,240
smaller countries Israel which came into

441
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:10,400
being as the result of a decision of the

442
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,960
United Nations in just the last few

443
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:17,159
months

444
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:20,720
has broken the uh Charter has broken

445
00:19:17,159 --> 00:19:23,559
extant Security Council resolutions has

446
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,640
killed United Nations personnel has

447
00:19:23,559 --> 00:19:30,640
destroyed United Nations facilities in

448
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:32,120
Gaza in fact over and over again and yet

449
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,880
at the next meeting of the United

450
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:37,720
Nations can walk up the red carpet as a

451
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,840
Pua member State no one threatens them

452
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,320
with expulsion no one threatens them

453
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:45,039
with suspension or any sanction of any

454
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:47,480
kind how can that happen it happens

455
00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:50,559
unfortunately because the United States

456
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,320
gives blind support to Israel there's no

457
00:19:50,559 --> 00:19:55,280
capacity in Congress or in the White

458
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:57,400
House to correct or punish or hold back

459
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,360
Israel for the internal domestic

460
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:03,280
politics of the United States

461
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:05,640
is uh held by the uh lobbies financed by

462
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,360
Israel often with American money as a

463
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,159
matter of fact so the Americans are

464
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:12,120
afraid to do deal with Israel as Israel

465
00:20:10,159 --> 00:20:13,960
should be dealt with because Israel is

466
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:16,240
as you said in violation of um just

467
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,320
about every International Convention the

468
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,480
charter itself so we they go in there

469
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:23,679
and they kill 450 children for example

470
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:26,000
recently in Gaza and do we get uh does

471
00:20:23,679 --> 00:20:28,400
the world stop no does the UN pay real

472
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,360
attention no some wishy-washy statement

473
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,600
comes out saying regrettably this and

474
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:35,760
that and whatever and the U in Gaza

475
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:37,960
itself the UN the UN agency has been

476
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,480
educating and feeding and supporting

477
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,320
these thousands of refugees for some 40

478
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,840
years so the UN is actually being

479
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,440
attacked the schools were bombed by

480
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,440
Israel and again Israel walks free and

481
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,880
it's all because Washington and Britain

482
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,679
to a certain extent and maybe some other

483
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:55,000
Europeans are afraid to deal with Israel

484
00:20:52,679 --> 00:20:56,720
because of the confusion and the history

485
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,360
of the Jewish people the Jewish State

486
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,760
the Holocaust all of that complexity

487
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,559
but they can't face the reality that

488
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:06,240
Zionism is something that's got to be

489
00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:08,919
dealt with Let's uh go back to the issue

490
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,600
of structure how can you have a security

491
00:21:08,919 --> 00:21:13,120
Council where some of the world's

492
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:15,600
biggest countries indeed its second

493
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:17,919
biggest country is not in the permanent

494
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:21,400
5 it's permanently locked out of the

495
00:21:17,919 --> 00:21:24,159
permanent 5 how can Germany the greatest

496
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:26,520
economy in Europe not be in the security

497
00:21:24,159 --> 00:21:29,279
Council Brazil the greatest country in

498
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:32,600
Latin America locked out permanently of

499
00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:35,440
the security Council surely these kind

500
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,760
of Demands uh now need to be raised that

501
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,640
if you're going to have a security

502
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,039
Council if you're going to have any

503
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,760
permanence uh a permanent five it'll

504
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:45,559
need be the permanent 10 well you see as

505
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,159
you know better than I probably the

506
00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:51,279
Stranglehold of the five permanent me

507
00:21:48,159 --> 00:21:54,000
Members goes back to Yola when Roosevelt

508
00:21:51,279 --> 00:21:55,679
Stalin and Churchill met and decided

509
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,320
given the failure of the league they

510
00:21:55,679 --> 00:21:59,720
were going to sort out the future have

511
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,760
United Nations which they would control

512
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,600
and that by adding France as a gesture

513
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:07,960
to um the goal and by adding

514
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,799
China uh they created this five veto

515
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,640
power permanent seat for themselves and

516
00:22:09,799 --> 00:22:13,240
they're still still in business if you

517
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,279
speak they're still controlling the UN

518
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,840
the brick countries that you've

519
00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:17,799
mentioned other large countries are not

520
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,240
represented the north south balance is

521
00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:21,840
just not there there is no democracy it

522
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,360
sounds like Revolution when you talk

523
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,000
about democracy in the context of the

524
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:27,720
security Council but the South needs to

525
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,520
be represented on a permanent basis or

526
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,679
at least with the same strength I mean I

527
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,279
have a suggestion for that if you want

528
00:22:30,679 --> 00:22:33,480
to get into it tell us how can we solve

529
00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:35,320
this yeah I believe what we have to do

530
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,679
is to abolish the present five we have

531
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,159
to have Regional seats in the security

532
00:22:37,679 --> 00:22:42,960
Council so North America would have one

533
00:22:40,159 --> 00:22:44,640
permanent seat Canada the United States

534
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,480
Mexico would have to decide who sits on

535
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,799
that seat and when one of them speak

536
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,640
when the country sitting speaks that

537
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:52,720
country will represent the three Latin

538
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,520
America would have one seat maybe Costa

539
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,080
Rica would be selected to sit on that

540
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,919
seat but when Costa Rica spoke she would

541
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,960
speak for the whole of Latin America and

542
00:22:58,919 --> 00:23:02,520
so on for sub Sahara Africa North Africa

543
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,919
the Middle East you could visualize a

544
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:08,440
very different body with some democracy

545
00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:09,840
at work and representation no veto power

546
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,159
and I think we'd find very different

547
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,720
decisions and these wars of aggression

548
00:23:12,159 --> 00:23:17,120
that we undertake uh would simply in my

549
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,120
view be be changed that would not happen

550
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:21,600
I don't believe we need that desperately

551
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:23,799
and it's it's not on the cards because

552
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:27,039
the the change of the security Council

553
00:23:23,799 --> 00:23:29,200
and its makeup is uh built into the into

554
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:31,440
the charter and only the member states

555
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,880
the permanent member states can change

556
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:36,520
the charter so they very very

557
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:39,559
tily it up to serve their own interests

558
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:42,600
it's quite extraordinary Dennis H I

559
00:23:39,559 --> 00:23:42,600
salute you thank

560
00:23:43,279 --> 00:23:47,919
you and now it's your turn to tell us

561
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,279
what you think through the portals of

562
00:23:47,919 --> 00:23:52,159
social media what's rattling Joseph well

563
00:23:50,279 --> 00:23:54,000
so on the question of the United Nations

564
00:23:52,159 --> 00:23:55,760
and the state of its Security Council

565
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,159
Neil barington says it's become a

566
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,279
totally irrelevant toothless

567
00:23:57,159 --> 00:24:01,480
organization very rarely does it ever

568
00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:03,640
get close to what it should do well I'm

569
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,840
afraid that there's no arguing with that

570
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,640
Dennis Halliday couldn't really argue

571
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,000
against it he would probably say it's

572
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,360
better that we have it than that we

573
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:15,120
don't I think it's encouraging a massive

574
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:17,799
illusion that we have some kind of world

575
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:20,679
Authority when in truth we don't and

576
00:24:17,799 --> 00:24:23,640
Shan sibon says bring back Kofi Kofi

577
00:24:20,679 --> 00:24:27,080
Anan was a better man than Banky moon or

578
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:29,320
donkey Moon as some people call him uh

579
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,320
but he had some terrible shortcomings

580
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,399
too quite a lot going on on this

581
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,360
question of turkey and on the border

582
00:24:33,399 --> 00:24:38,200
with obviously situation in kobani uh on

583
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:40,320
the question of Will President erdogan

584
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:43,480
let the Turkish Kurds across the border

585
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:45,440
to help defend the city of kabani uh Ino

586
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,399
Lobo says the Turkish government has

587
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,000
automaic dreams the annihilation of

588
00:24:47,399 --> 00:24:52,120
innocence is inconsequential to them

589
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,200
well they they have they're hoist on

590
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:56,399
this terrible petard that anything which

591
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,360
strengthens the Kurds their

592
00:24:56,399 --> 00:25:01,440
self-determination their self-organized

593
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:04,240
ization their military strength is seen

594
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,640
by him as a dagger at the heart of the

595
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:09,559
Ottoman the Neo ottoman state that he's

596
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,880
trying to create Virginia H disagrees he

597
00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:13,600
says why would he Isis are armed to the

598
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,600
teeth and are organized the Kurds in

599
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,799
Turkey need to CM down I don't think I

600
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,159
would if my loved ones were in trouble

601
00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:20,240
like that well no and of course the

602
00:25:18,159 --> 00:25:23,399
reason Isis are armed to the teeth is

603
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:25,640
erdogan's fault as well as the fault of

604
00:25:23,399 --> 00:25:28,080
some other governments in that region

605
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:31,760
all those uh weapons which armed them to

606
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,559
the teeth crossed his border with his

607
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,840
connivance that's all we've got time for

608
00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:37,520
for today sir which alas means that's

609
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,520
the end of the show don't forget to

610
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,360
tweet us it's rtor Sputnik on Twitter

611
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,760
and of course on Facebook it's Sputnik

612
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:47,640
on Russia today but for me Joseph height

613
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:51,000
it's goodbye and for me George Gallow

614
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,000
it's been marvelous

615
00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:01,559
oh