1 00:00:01,300 --> 00:00:04,549 [Music] 2 00:00:11,519 --> 00:00:16,920 Okay, we did it. Thank you. I need 3 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:40,079 Welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 4 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:43,360 with me George Galloway and me Gayatri. 5 00:00:40,079 --> 00:00:45,600 Dr. Ernesto Che Guara is the man of our 6 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:48,160 era, a revolutionary internationalist. 7 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,800 He began life as a physician healing the 8 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:53,600 sick, curing the lame, shaking hands 9 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:56,079 with lepers. Chay did explain that from 10 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:58,800 the start all revolutionaries begin from 11 00:00:56,079 --> 00:01:00,800 feelings of love. He loved humanity and 12 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,520 wanted to help set it free from the 13 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:06,400 sicknesses of oppression, poverty and 14 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:09,200 hopelessness. His daughter Dr. Ala 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:12,479 Gavara is also a revolutionary physician 16 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,640 and we spoke to her alas unfortunately 17 00:01:12,479 --> 00:01:16,880 just before the seismic change in 18 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,280 relations between Cuba and the United 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:22,320 States. We talked to Dr. Davara in 20 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:26,159 London about Cuba, her life, her parents 21 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:26,159 and her children's three 22 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:33,520 grandfathers. Dr. Ala, you are a medical 23 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:38,320 physician. Cuba is fantastically famous 24 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:40,560 for its biomedical uh industry and its 25 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:42,720 health system which has become admired 26 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:45,200 around the world. Indeed, has traveled 27 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:48,159 all around the world. 28 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:51,159 How did Cuba get to be so good at 29 00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:51,159 healthcare? 30 00:01:52,799 --> 00:01:58,560 From the beginning of the 31 00:01:54,759 --> 00:02:01,119 revolution, our um head commander, Fidel 32 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:04,240 Castro, was always extremely worried by 33 00:02:01,119 --> 00:02:06,799 the health of its people. But from the 34 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:09,679 very beginning, we realized that it was 35 00:02:06,799 --> 00:02:12,480 much easier to prevent an illness 36 00:02:09,679 --> 00:02:16,560 instead of having to cure it. For from 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:20,480 the start we had a public health system 38 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:24,080 fully free for everyone but on top of 39 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:26,879 that we had this focus on prevention and 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,319 together with this education education 41 00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:31,680 of the people because you cannot 42 00:02:28,319 --> 00:02:33,920 convince someone of the need of uh of 43 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,440 doing some things differently if that 44 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:40,000 person doesn't have a certain level of 45 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:42,000 education. So the medicine in Cuba from 46 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,360 the very beginning 47 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:47,680 had to do with a practice of solidarity. 48 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,920 And this is what we started to show to 49 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:53,440 our people and this is how we were 50 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:55,680 educated from the very start. And this 51 00:02:53,440 --> 00:03:00,080 reached the point where at the beginning 52 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:02,879 of the revolution, a lot of uh Cuban 53 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:05,040 doctors went to the United States. We 54 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:08,640 had very few left. So we started 55 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:11,519 training this revolutionary doctor that 56 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:13,040 didn't have a a private consultation. 57 00:03:11,519 --> 00:03:17,640 Everything is for the state. Everything 58 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:20,560 is for the people. But on top of that in 59 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:23,920 1963, so we have the revolution in 59 60 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:26,239 and in 63. We have uh the revolution in 61 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:28,720 Algeria where they needed a lot of 62 00:03:26,239 --> 00:03:33,080 doctors and this is the first 63 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,080 international brigade of doctors. 64 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:39,040 many uh doctors went to Algeria. We 65 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:41,280 didn't have a lot but we wanted to share 66 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,000 the very little that we have and this is 67 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:47,760 how we started to grow as a people and 68 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:52,000 as an instrument of solidarity. Medicine 69 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:54,959 has proved uh tremendously successful in 70 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:58,080 the poor barios in Venezuela for example 71 00:03:54,959 --> 00:04:00,000 where most of the people for most of the 72 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,879 time could never have dreamt of having a 73 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:07,040 doctor. There are Cuban doctors there in 74 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:11,360 the poorest areas performing miracles. 75 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:15,200 The operation to cure cataract uh 76 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:18,880 problems amongst people. This has 77 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:22,759 operated and given sight to so many 78 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,759 people. Tell us about that. 79 00:04:25,919 --> 00:04:31,440 with Alba in the Alba treaty when we 80 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:34,479 started to wake up as a continent not 81 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:37,639 just as a people but as a a continent as 82 00:04:34,479 --> 00:04:41,600 a unity of different people. 83 00:04:37,639 --> 00:04:44,320 Venezuela changed its destiny with uh 84 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:47,280 the arrival of President Chavez and they 85 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:49,759 needed a lot of help at at that time and 86 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:52,240 the very beginning the first thing to do 87 00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:55,120 is to educate because for for people to 88 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,360 be free it has to be educated. When we 89 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,199 started with this campaign we realized 90 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,120 that there were some people who wouldn't 91 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:03,440 come near us. They didn't want to learn 92 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,840 how to read and write. And why not? 93 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:08,960 Because they couldn't see. So they were 94 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:11,360 ashamed in a way and when we started to 95 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:14,800 diagnose this problem uh we could see 96 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,880 that the problem was only cataracts is a 97 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:21,800 very simple surgery. It takes a few 98 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:24,320 minutes only. So, um, Feder Castro, the 99 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,320 commander-in-chief, decided that it 100 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,400 wouldn't only be a campaign to teach 101 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:31,440 people how to read and write, but we 102 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:34,639 also needed to carry out these surgeries 103 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:37,280 to give people their sight back and for 104 00:05:34,639 --> 00:05:40,160 them to be ready to choose if they 105 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:41,919 wanted to learn how to read and write, 106 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,039 they would be able to and not because of 107 00:05:41,919 --> 00:05:47,280 this physical barrier. So in that sense 108 00:05:45,039 --> 00:05:49,840 we started with this kind of surgeries 109 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:52,800 and the first patients who were given 110 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:55,600 their sight back uh there was a very old 111 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:58,320 man who said this is a miracle and then 112 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,400 we went from Latin America to Africa and 113 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,720 the Middle 114 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:04,319 East. But the problem that we've seen 115 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,600 and we've seen it with the medical 116 00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:09,759 colleges in these countries sometimes 117 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,400 they don't want to do it. In Argentina 118 00:06:09,759 --> 00:06:15,120 for instance they don't let us work in 119 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:19,199 their territory. No Cuban doctor can 120 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:21,919 work there. 48,000 Argentinians have 121 00:06:19,199 --> 00:06:23,840 been uh had the surgery in the border 122 00:06:21,919 --> 00:06:27,759 with Bolivia between Argentina and 123 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:30,639 Bolivia. We had two hospitals there and 124 00:06:27,759 --> 00:06:34,479 the solidarity gets to these patients 125 00:06:30,639 --> 00:06:37,199 that receive this uh free surgery. So we 126 00:06:34,479 --> 00:06:39,199 have more than 40,000 Argentinians who 127 00:06:37,199 --> 00:06:41,440 have had this surgery and we managed to 128 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:43,440 do a very small hospital within the 129 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,680 country. Argentina is a very big country 130 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:48,240 and those who would come from the south 131 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:51,360 all the way to the north would have to 132 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:53,919 travel for hours in an omnibus and on 133 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,639 the way back it could be uh dangerous 134 00:06:53,919 --> 00:07:00,160 because it's a simple surgery but it's 135 00:06:56,639 --> 00:07:04,280 still uh people are fragile afterwards. 136 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:08,000 So we tried to make a a small uh medical 137 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:10,639 unit fully free services to start giving 138 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:14,319 this service to Argentinians within 139 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:16,720 their country educating several 140 00:07:14,319 --> 00:07:19,520 Argentinian of themologists to do it and 141 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,919 they would have a Cuban advisor and we 142 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:24,880 have managed to give this surgery to 143 00:07:21,919 --> 00:07:27,680 5,000 Argentinians within Argentina but 144 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,680 the best is that it's called Ernesto 145 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,919 Che. the name of the hospital in 146 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:34,639 Cordoba, Argentina. I heard you speak at 147 00:07:31,919 --> 00:07:40,080 the Latin American Conference in London 148 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:42,720 at the TU in November. Uh, and you uh 149 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:47,520 made the point that everything in Cuba 150 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:51,759 is not perfect. And on the same day, the 151 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:53,759 interim ambassador uh of Cuba in London 152 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:56,800 made the point that there are changes 153 00:07:53,759 --> 00:08:01,240 coming in Cuba, but that those changes 154 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:04,960 are for a better socialism, not a 155 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:08,000 transformation back to uh capitalism. 156 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:10,960 tell us, if you will, some of the uh 157 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:13,599 problems that still remain in Cuba and 158 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:17,440 what kind of changes we can expect in 159 00:08:13,599 --> 00:08:19,440 the coming months and years. 160 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,440 The first problem that we have in Cuba 161 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:24,080 is the 162 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:28,319 blockade imposed to us by the USA for 163 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:30,400 more than 50 years. It is very easy to 164 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:33,039 talk about the blockade, but it's 165 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:36,479 extremely difficult to live it. It's a 166 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:39,279 situation that um is extremely difficult 167 00:08:36,479 --> 00:08:40,519 for the Cuban people. I always give very 168 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:44,320 simple 169 00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:48,160 examples. A a little baby 8 months old, 170 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:51,440 a little girl, she had a a bleeding in 171 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:54,800 her intestines. And the specific 172 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:59,200 medication that she needed unfortunately 173 00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:03,680 has a patent in the USA. So nobody gives 174 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:06,720 Cuba this medication. If the USA finds a 175 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:09,120 company who selling this to Cuba, they 176 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:12,240 can receive a fine of five five to10 177 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:14,480 million dollars or they can forbid for 178 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:17,680 the products of this particular company 179 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:20,240 to be sold in the USA. So obviously it 180 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:24,080 is extremely difficult to find a company 181 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:26,720 who will sell this medication. Sometimes 182 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:30,080 we need five or six intermediaries in 183 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:33,440 order for the FBI not to detect where 184 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:36,000 the drugs are coming from and this means 185 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:40,959 it's extremely expensive for Cuba to to 186 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:42,480 get this drugs. This would be one of the 187 00:09:40,959 --> 00:09:45,839 main problems that we have. If the 188 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:48,640 blockade stops today, tomorrow the Cuban 189 00:09:45,839 --> 00:09:51,680 economy will flourish immediately. We 190 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:54,920 spend uh thousands and thousands of 191 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:57,160 millions of dollars because of the 192 00:09:54,920 --> 00:10:00,560 blockade. 193 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:03,920 Internally, Cuba is a is a country that 194 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:06,160 has been learning how to go ahead, how 195 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:08,240 to go forward. We learn from our 196 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,880 mistakes. We're not perfect. We're men. 197 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:14,079 We're women. Uh and therefore, we we 198 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:18,560 commit mistakes. 199 00:10:14,079 --> 00:10:21,680 We've earned the the the right to uh 200 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:24,079 rectify our own mistakes and we have to 201 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:27,279 do it ourselves. Nobody else can do it 202 00:10:24,079 --> 00:10:29,120 for us. We listen we listen to opinions 203 00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:31,600 especially if they come from friends of 204 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:34,079 Cuba. Of course we will take those 205 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:37,120 opinions into account. There are 206 00:10:34,079 --> 00:10:40,079 problems with urban transport. Uh it's 207 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:43,680 very bad, extremely bad. We also have a 208 00:10:40,079 --> 00:10:47,120 lot of housing issues. This is a a very 209 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:49,680 big problem for us and we've achieved a 210 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,600 lot in the last few years but we we 211 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:54,480 still haven't done enough. We have to 212 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:57,200 keep going especially for the campinos 213 00:10:54,480 --> 00:11:00,040 living in the countryside. We have to 214 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:03,360 improve the life of the 215 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:06,240 campinos peasant farmers who at times 216 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:09,680 live in conditions that are very bad. So 217 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:11,720 we have to find a solution for this and 218 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:14,560 we also have 219 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:17,120 problems because we live in today's 220 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:20,320 world. We don't live in another planet. 221 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:23,200 So there is a an economic crisis 222 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:26,399 affecting everyone and it is affecting 223 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:31,440 us as well. At at a certain point, the 224 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:34,640 Cuban government realized that 500,000 225 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:38,519 people were working receiving a salary 226 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:42,560 without producing anything. And this is 227 00:11:38,519 --> 00:11:46,240 unviable in economic terms. So, uh, at 228 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:49,040 the time these 500,000 people would have 229 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:52,000 to lose their jobs. But how do you do 230 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:55,279 this in a socialist system? How can you 231 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,920 leave a worker without work? So, we had 232 00:11:55,279 --> 00:12:01,680 to find uh alternative solutions and 233 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:05,680 those that we found at the time were to 234 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:09,440 make these people who would uh end up 235 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:11,440 without their um state jobs to to do 236 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:14,000 something by themselves. But this is 237 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:18,320 also a risk for the Cuban society 238 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:20,959 because when people start to think only 239 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,800 about their own pockets, sometimes they 240 00:12:20,959 --> 00:12:26,160 forget that they live in a different 241 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:29,680 society where education is free, health 242 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,600 is free. Sometimes they can forget these 243 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:33,680 things. And this is a a big issue that 244 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:37,040 we have to face. And this is what we've 245 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:40,600 been doing lately to think more about 246 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:43,120 how to create cooperatives and not about 247 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:46,079 individuals. But you cannot force people 248 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:48,079 to form cooperatives. You you have to 249 00:12:46,079 --> 00:12:51,200 make them understand. You have to make 250 00:12:48,079 --> 00:12:54,480 them accept. And then socialism in the 251 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:56,639 21st century is a new challenge and 252 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:59,639 we'll talk more about that after the 253 00:12:56,639 --> 00:12:59,639 break. 254 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:14,079 Welcome back to Sputnik. We are talking 255 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:16,760 with Dr. Alida Gavara, one of the new 256 00:13:14,079 --> 00:13:19,519 figures in the Cuban 257 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:22,639 Revolution, traveling the world, talking 258 00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:25,680 about Cuba's achievements, but also uh 259 00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:28,399 not afraid to discuss Cuba's problems as 260 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:32,639 we were doing in the first half. Dr. 261 00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:36,079 later. Welcome back to Sputnik. Um, I, 262 00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:39,480 as you can see, I'm a very big collector 263 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:42,399 of photographs and other 264 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:45,680 memorabilia connected to your father, 265 00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:48,160 Command Dante Chavar. And I wanted to go 266 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:50,160 through some of these pictures uh, with 267 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:54,160 you because there are some questions 268 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:56,639 arise uh, of interest out of uh, all of 269 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:59,199 them. I hope. Let's uh let's look at 270 00:13:56,639 --> 00:14:03,120 this one first 271 00:13:59,199 --> 00:14:05,920 uh which of course uh depicts 272 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:10,160 uh two of the great leaders including 273 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:14,240 the common Dante and He Fidel uh with 274 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:20,440 your father command Dante Ch. Uh, I 275 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:25,839 wonder if you um often think about 276 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:28,800 the coincidence, the kismmet destiny of 277 00:14:25,839 --> 00:14:31,760 their meeting. If they had not met, 278 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:34,000 everything in the Cuba and everything in 279 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:37,320 the world actually would be rather 280 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:40,639 different. They met more or less by 281 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:44,079 chance and the relationship between them 282 00:14:40,639 --> 00:14:47,320 is one of the great pairings in history. 283 00:14:44,079 --> 00:14:49,680 Uh there are not many other such 284 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,680 examples. What do you remember as a 285 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:54,880 child and what have you learned in the 286 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:59,480 rest of your life about the relationship 287 00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:01,399 between your father and Fidel? 288 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:05,680 Sometime 289 00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:08,959 I had to write a prologue for a book 290 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:11,519 about my father uh where about the time 291 00:15:08,959 --> 00:15:13,839 when he was in Congo. So I went to see 292 00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:16,959 my uncle Fidel because since the moment 293 00:15:13,839 --> 00:15:20,160 I was born, Fidel has been my uncle. So 294 00:15:16,959 --> 00:15:23,519 I went to see my uncle. Um I sat down 295 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,519 with him and I asked him why Congo, why 296 00:15:23,519 --> 00:15:28,320 the Congo? 297 00:15:25,519 --> 00:15:30,800 And uh he gave me a very clear 298 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,800 explanation, a lengthy explanation. And 299 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,000 towards the end of the conversation, I 300 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,839 asked I asked him, I said to him, 301 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:40,320 "Uncle, tell me some people are saying 302 00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:43,519 things about you and my father, you 303 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,040 having uh disagreements, discussions." I 304 00:15:43,519 --> 00:15:47,519 said, "When we were p," he said to me, 305 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,759 "When we were prisoners in Mexico, I 306 00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:52,240 gave this order. I said, "Don't say what 307 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:54,800 your political affiliation is. What did 308 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,759 you think your father do?" Not only did 309 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:01,279 he say he was a communist, he also 310 00:15:57,759 --> 00:16:04,079 started a lengthy discussion with the 311 00:16:01,279 --> 00:16:06,240 hunchman in the prison about Stalin's 312 00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:09,519 personality. The result, we were all 313 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:13,839 freed except for your father. When I 314 00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:16,800 went uh to tell him, but you went 315 00:16:13,839 --> 00:16:19,839 against my direct orders. I realized 316 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:23,519 that your father couldn't lie. He 317 00:16:19,839 --> 00:16:25,920 couldn't. He simply couldn't lie. So, 318 00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:28,320 The discussion was over before it 319 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,399 started. What could I discuss with him? 320 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,560 The only thing that I have to do was 321 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:36,000 work a bit harder to take him out of 322 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:39,800 prison. I think that this is something 323 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:43,759 that uh was really important in 324 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:45,680 this such relationship between them. Um, 325 00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:48,000 this is something my father always 326 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:51,120 remembered and from that point onwards 327 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:54,160 he always respected Fidel as a military 328 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:56,880 commandant commander because he always 329 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,079 responded for each one of his men and 330 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,759 this is something that united them 331 00:16:59,079 --> 00:17:05,839 forever. That evening when I was talking 332 00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:08,079 to Fidel I started to smile and he asked 333 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:10,559 me why what are you laughing about? Why 334 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:12,480 are you smiling? And I said, "Uncle, you 335 00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:15,520 haven't realized, but we you are talking 336 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:18,240 about my father in the present tense as 337 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,480 if he was about to come by the door." 338 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:24,640 And he looked at me very seriously. He 339 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:28,559 said, "No, your father is present." 340 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:31,960 Well, I once asked Fidel 341 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:35,520 uh does he think about 342 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,440 Ch. He said that he that ch is often in 343 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:41,919 his 344 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:45,840 dreams and he's not dead in the dreams 345 00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:49,120 that he is still alive in these dreams 346 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:51,360 long after he was dead. It's a very 347 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:54,320 complicated but a very beautiful uh 348 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:57,679 answer and in a way you have just uh 349 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:59,559 confirmed it. 350 00:17:57,679 --> 00:18:04,240 Yes, of 351 00:17:59,559 --> 00:18:07,960 course. Because Fidel like my father did 352 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:10,160 not accept the the death of u their 353 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,160 companions. It's very difficult to 354 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:16,120 accept something like that especially 355 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:18,280 when these people uh have signified so 356 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:22,960 much for each 357 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:26,400 other. So it's very wonderful lives that 358 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:29,600 come together. When my eldest daughter 359 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,679 was uh born, she was born through a 360 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,720 cescareian section. And when I opened my 361 00:18:31,679 --> 00:18:37,520 eyes after the anesthetic, next to me, I 362 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:41,360 had Ramiro Valdez and Oscar Fernandez 363 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:43,280 Melo. They were both there with their uh 364 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:45,200 as as if they'd been in the surgery 365 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,799 room. And I looked at them and I said, 366 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,200 "What are you doing there?" And they 367 00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:51,520 both looked at me and they said, "Your 368 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,640 father is not here. That's why we are 369 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:58,200 here." And the following day my uncle 370 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:02,559 went to see me, my uncle Fidel. And 371 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:05,200 um he discussed with me the name of my 372 00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:07,280 daughter. He wanted to to give her her 373 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,120 name. And I said, "But grandparents 374 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:12,000 doesn't don't have that right. It's 375 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:15,919 parents." He was very upset that day 376 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:18,240 because um I had made a commitment with 377 00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:20,320 the father of my daughter and I couldn't 378 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,559 uh go against it. So I had to put her 379 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:25,120 give her the name that her father had 380 00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:27,280 chosen and the father wasn't in Cuba to 381 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:29,200 discuss with Fidel or they could have 382 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,320 discussed it amongst themselves. I had 383 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,799 to assume this responsibility and my 384 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:38,799 uncle was quite upset about it and a few 385 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:40,720 years later um I got divorced. My uncle 386 00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:43,919 called me immediately how are you 387 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:47,200 feeling? How are you? We were talking 388 00:19:43,919 --> 00:19:50,000 and he could hear hear that my eldest 389 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:52,880 daughter was saying something and he 390 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,799 said to me, "Is the the child there?" 391 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,880 And she I said, "Yes." And he said to 392 00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:59,200 me, "The one with the ugly name." 393 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,679 Because he never accepted this name that 394 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,440 was given to my daughter. And I said to 395 00:20:01,679 --> 00:20:04,799 him, 396 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,640 "Yes, she's here." He said, "I want to 397 00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:10,000 speak to her. Put her on the phone." And 398 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:12,080 I said, "Funny, come. Your uncle Fidel 399 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,080 wants to speak to you. 400 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,400 He listened to me. He said, "No, I'm not 401 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,799 his uncle. I'm his grandfather." I said, 402 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,240 "Fine. Your grandfather Fidel wants to 403 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:22,960 speak to you. Would you like to speak to 404 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,960 him?" She says, "Yes." And they started 405 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:28,720 to have a conversation. And the 406 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:33,559 following day, I went to to school to 407 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:37,919 collect my daughter. And when I arrived, 408 00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:40,080 the the teacher from this uh group said 409 00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:43,200 to me, "Listen to me. There is a 410 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:45,520 problem. I've told your daughter that uh 411 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,440 children only have two grandfathers but 412 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,159 she says to me she insists she has three 413 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,720 of them and there is no way of changing 414 00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:55,120 her mind and I said to her listen the 415 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,799 thing is she spoke to Fidel yesterday 416 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:58,480 and it was her grandfather and she said 417 00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:01,440 okay she has three grandfathers then 418 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,840 that's why end of story let me ask you 419 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:08,720 the question that that every person 420 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:11,360 watching this uh will have in their mind 421 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,640 your father was one of the greatest 422 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:16,440 human beings who ever 423 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:19,919 lived. He is a hero 424 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:23,600 to hundreds of millions, maybe billions 425 00:21:19,919 --> 00:21:27,880 of people. What's it like being the 426 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,880 daughter of such a man? 427 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:36,400 I have had the great privilege of having 428 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:41,120 a wonderful mother. And this woman who 429 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:44,559 loved uh my father so much always said 430 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:49,440 to us that we will get many things 431 00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:52,679 because we were the children of che. But 432 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,760 we needed to learn to let that 433 00:21:52,679 --> 00:21:58,960 go 434 00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:01,760 to be very firm on this earth and let 435 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:04,799 this go by these things that we haven't 436 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:08,159 earned by our own effort. And this was 437 00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:12,480 amazing for us. It is true that a lot of 438 00:22:08,159 --> 00:22:15,480 people love us because simply we are the 439 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:18,960 children of this man they 440 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:21,679 adore. Nonetheless, we learned the 441 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:24,320 lesson very well. And the things that we 442 00:22:21,679 --> 00:22:26,320 haven't earned ourselves as human being, 443 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:30,640 we let them through. and we've lived 444 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:33,520 very well quietly with a lot of honor 445 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:36,600 because we are the children of this man 446 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:41,039 and this woman. But I've always said the 447 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:44,240 following. It's not important to be the 448 00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:46,960 daughter of one person or someone else. 449 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:50,000 But it is very nice to know that your 450 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,880 mother and father have loved each other 451 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,919 so much that you are the the fruit of 452 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:59,280 this union. And this is makes of you a 453 00:22:55,919 --> 00:23:03,039 wonderful person. But at the same time, 454 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:06,320 I've been very fortunate because I have 455 00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:09,120 lived and I've been educated in Cuba 456 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:12,880 with this joy of life that we have in 457 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:16,480 Cuba with this courage, this strength. I 458 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:20,480 love very much my people and I feel very 459 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:24,799 proud to be Cuban. And in that sense uh 460 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:27,280 there was this commitment every day 461 00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:30,080 being the daughter of my people with 462 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:33,200 dignity because I owe so much to them. 463 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:35,520 Maybe I need two lives to do it in order 464 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:38,880 to repay all the love I've received. Not 465 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,799 only did you learn that lesson well I 466 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,760 lived in the same apartment block as 467 00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:46,480 your brother Camilo and I asked him that 468 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:50,000 question and he gave me a very similar 469 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:52,400 answer. So, your mother taught you both 470 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,480 uh very well. I just want to ask I've 471 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:58,039 only got time to ask you one more 472 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,960 question and I'm asking you it as a as a 473 00:23:58,039 --> 00:24:03,600 doctor. 474 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:05,159 Um Fidel told me many years ago to stop 475 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:09,120 smoking 476 00:24:05,159 --> 00:24:11,840 cigars. Uh in fact, he was angry when he 477 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:14,559 learned that I had disobeyed this order 478 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,320 and I was still smoking cigars. He said, 479 00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:17,880 "We need you more than we need your 480 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,799 money for the 481 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:23,279 tobacco." Your father was a very big 482 00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:26,159 cigar smoker, and this image is 483 00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:29,039 completely inseparable from him. Did he 484 00:24:26,159 --> 00:24:30,279 smoke in the house around the children? 485 00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:34,000 See, 486 00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:36,480 for he did smoke at home, but not when 487 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:40,000 we were there, not when we were present. 488 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:42,400 I don't remember. But uh it's true that 489 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,640 uh I lived with him for a very short 490 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,679 time, but I don't remember him smoking 491 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:49,240 in front of me. And I've always said he 492 00:24:47,679 --> 00:24:53,360 was still 493 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:55,400 smoking because uh Celia and I were not 494 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:58,640 old enough or he would have stopped 495 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:01,120 forever. We would have made sure we 496 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:04,320 would have protected him enormously in 497 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,799 that sense. And this is um I have to say 498 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:10,480 the only thing 499 00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:13,200 that we regret is not just not having 500 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:17,360 our father with us but us not being old 501 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:20,080 enough to accompany him. Dr. Ala Gavara, 502 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:23,290 thank you very much indeed. Jay 503 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,840 definitely lives amongst us. 504 00:25:23,290 --> 00:25:28,320 [Music] 505 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,720 What a remarkable woman. What a moving 506 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,600 story. We hope you enjoyed the interview 507 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,480 and whether you celebrate it or not that 508 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:39,159 you have a wonderful Christmas. Remember 509 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,840 to stay in touch with us on Twitter at 510 00:25:39,159 --> 00:25:43,919 RT_Sputnik or on Facebook on Sputnik on 511 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,480 Russia Today. Merry Christmas from 512 00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:49,880 Migatri and from me George Galloway. 513 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,880 It's been marvelous.