1
00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:06,780
[Music]

2
00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,040
I

3
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,680
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

4
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:42,760
with me George Galloway and me gri the

5
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,600
world's greatest saxophone player is

6
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,559
something to be he's not an

7
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:49,039
African-American as you might expect him

8
00:00:46,559 --> 00:00:51,920
to be never sat by the Mississippi

9
00:00:49,039 --> 00:00:54,320
absorbing Jazz and the Blues in fact he

10
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,320
came upon these genre in the only Record

11
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:59,320
Shop as we used to call them in the

12
00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,359
unlikely neighborhood of Tel Aviv that's

13
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,800
right he's an Israeli Jew who even

14
00:01:01,359 --> 00:01:05,880
served in the Israeli Army he saw the

15
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,280
light politically in occupied Lebanon

16
00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,840
when he saw a row of small concrete

17
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:13,600
canels in which he imagined the soldiers

18
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,280
kept their alans before discovering it

19
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,720
was where the soldiers kept their

20
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,360
Palestinian victims those that they

21
00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,640
hadn't killed he went on the road and

22
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:25,000
never turned back to the Zionism of his

23
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,920
youth he's politically fascinating

24
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:32,880
artistically he's a genius and he's here

25
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:34,880
Welcome gilad atsmon to the Sputnik uh I

26
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,119
I want to get some artistic points out

27
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:40,759
of the way because you're too modest to

28
00:01:37,119 --> 00:01:42,880
do it you are on the new Pink Floyd

29
00:01:40,759 --> 00:01:46,079
album for 20 years you've been a

30
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:49,360
blockhead by which I mean the wonderful

31
00:01:46,079 --> 00:01:54,040
uh English band formerly fronted by Ian

32
00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:57,840
Drury The Blockheads uh how much of your

33
00:01:54,040 --> 00:02:01,200
life is occupied by music nowadays and

34
00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:04,960
how much by politics

35
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:08,280
to start with I'm not engaged in

36
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:11,319
politics at all I never been a member of

37
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:14,319
any party or anything as such I'm

38
00:02:11,319 --> 00:02:15,920
concerned with humanist matters and I

39
00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:19,720
write

40
00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:22,000
about what does it mean to live amongst

41
00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:25,120
others to your

42
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:28,239
question I'm playing every night I'm

43
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:32,480
recording a lot I'm touring a lot

44
00:02:28,239 --> 00:02:35,480
constantly and in between between I read

45
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,920
and write this is your new album this is

46
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,760
my new album The Whistleblower tell us

47
00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:41,360
about it it's just about it's just about

48
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:44,360
to come out in few days in the beginning

49
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:46,480
of January well I I haven't heard this

50
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:49,840
album yet but I've heard you play yeah

51
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:53,120
you really are uh a genius you are going

52
00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:56,000
to teach me uh to play the saxophone and

53
00:02:53,120 --> 00:03:00,319
maybe on a later edition of the Sputnik

54
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:02,800
we'll show us doing a rap you wrote a

55
00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:05,280
book uh which I read with some

56
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:08,360
trepidation because there's been a big

57
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:11,319
job done on you to paint you in a really

58
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:13,080
negative way yeah and I was enthral both

59
00:03:11,319 --> 00:03:14,959
of us were in fact I used in it was the

60
00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,840
early days of our marriage I used to

61
00:03:14,959 --> 00:03:20,480
read her a chapter of your book every

62
00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,920
night we went to bed thinking I think

63
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,680
this is what I recommend all young

64
00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:26,120
couple you know is that read G before

65
00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,680
you go to sleep it's a sort of

66
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:31,840
contraception um it was called the

67
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:34,040
wondering who uh which is a fantastic

68
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,319
title and titles are really important uh

69
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:40,239
in books tell us what led to the book

70
00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:45,080
and what it's about um I really think

71
00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:47,920
that uh we are H Mis have been misled

72
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:50,080
for quite a long time in our

73
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,680
understanding of

74
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,439
Zionism

75
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:58,480
Israel uh the work of the lobby and so

76
00:03:54,439 --> 00:04:03,120
on and so on and so on and for quite a

77
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:06,239
while I I argue that if Israel defines

78
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,519
itself as the Jewish State and decorates

79
00:04:06,239 --> 00:04:10,840
its airplanes and tanks with Jewish

80
00:04:08,519 --> 00:04:14,760
symbols the first thing that we have to

81
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:17,079
do is to try to understand what is

82
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:21,639
jewishness what are the relationship

83
00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:23,479
between Judaism jewishness the Jew what

84
00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:27,479
are the relationship between these three

85
00:04:23,479 --> 00:04:31,199
an Zionism these are fundamentals now

86
00:04:27,479 --> 00:04:33,320
for quite a while because of the

87
00:04:31,199 --> 00:04:36,639
domination of

88
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,840
a a lot of good Jews let's say within

89
00:04:36,639 --> 00:04:42,360
the the

90
00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:44,600
left um we were prevented from going

91
00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,479
there we were only allowed to talk about

92
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,960
Zionism or

93
00:04:46,479 --> 00:04:52,360
colonialism Zionism is a misleading

94
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:55,960
notion Zionism from Israeli perspectives

95
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:58,639
died in 1948 Zionism was the promise to

96
00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:01,800
form a Jewish state in Zion I.E

97
00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:04,240
Palestine once this state was formed

98
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:07,240
from an Israeli perspective the project

99
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,560
was gone for Amer for American Jews in

100
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:12,000
Brooklyn or here in gold as green it is

101
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:16,240
still it is still a very Vivid concept

102
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:20,400
but from Israelis it wasn't Zionism that

103
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:25,000
motivated us or pushed us uh forward we

104
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:29,800
were Israeli Patriots H we actually

105
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:34,280
despised the the so-called diaspora Jew

106
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:36,639
whom we we regarded as very weak people

107
00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:39,800
now apartheid is a very misleading

108
00:05:36,639 --> 00:05:42,160
concept aparte is an exploitive racist

109
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:45,120
system Israel doesn't want to exploit

110
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:47,960
the Palestinians it wants them

111
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:50,199
out colonialism speaks about

112
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,720
relationship between a mother State and

113
00:05:50,199 --> 00:05:55,039
a settler State Israel is where is a

114
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:58,639
settler state but where is the mother

115
00:05:55,039 --> 00:06:01,759
who is the mother we are using a lot of

116
00:05:58,639 --> 00:06:05,759
terminology that is very misleading I

117
00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:09,360
realized long time ago that it is the

118
00:06:05,759 --> 00:06:13,120
Jewish identity politics that dri the

119
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:15,599
Jewish State I face a lot of opposition

120
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:19,759
but now just two weeks ago three weeks

121
00:06:15,599 --> 00:06:22,520
ago we saw that the Israeli cabinet

122
00:06:19,759 --> 00:06:26,800
approved the Jewish National Bill the

123
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:29,840
Israeli National bill that determines

124
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:32,599
the Primacy of jewishness in the Israel

125
00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:34,520
State and those who by the way democracy

126
00:06:32,599 --> 00:06:36,800
for sure and those who by the by the way

127
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,240
like CP Liv now she BEC the leftist

128
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,759
until two weeks ago she was a war

129
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,960
criminal you know it's it's like you

130
00:06:40,759 --> 00:06:45,720
know and we are very forgiving and those

131
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:49,680
who oppose those who oppose the national

132
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:52,520
bill they don't oppose the essentialist

133
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:55,199
gist of it they just say we don't need

134
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,440
it because we know that we are we don't

135
00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:59,599
have to write it down we see now

136
00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,479
something very interesting in Israel

137
00:06:59,599 --> 00:07:02,960
something very very interesting that

138
00:07:01,479 --> 00:07:06,479
that I

139
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,960
I'm something that shocks me and you

140
00:07:06,479 --> 00:07:12,440
know because obviously I'm an

141
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:14,840
anti-zionist but what is so fascinating

142
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:17,560
is Israeli politics at the moment is

143
00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:21,639
that it's actually the ultra

144
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:24,440
zionists who insist to be truthful to

145
00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:26,400
themselves they say we will go for this

146
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,960
National Bill we understand the

147
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:32,360
consequences we understand that it's

148
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:34,039
going to to jeopardize our Foreign

149
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,319
Affairs and so on and so on but this is

150
00:07:34,039 --> 00:07:38,599
what we are we are Jews and we want this

151
00:07:36,319 --> 00:07:42,400
state to be the Jewish State against all

152
00:07:38,599 --> 00:07:46,960
ODS and then we see the Jewish

153
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:50,639
left trying to to divert the

154
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:52,840
attention from the factuality of the

155
00:07:50,639 --> 00:07:55,319
Jewish State this is what I tried to do

156
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:58,879
in the wandering go and I'm very happy H

157
00:07:55,319 --> 00:08:02,560
I was very happy to face so much outrage

158
00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:06,080
because uh it only proved that I had

159
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:08,159
something to say you are Jewish whether

160
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,080
you resign it or not I'm not I'm I'm not

161
00:08:08,159 --> 00:08:11,840
a Jew anymore this is something that

162
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,919
very important I'm not sure you can

163
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:18,159
resign it but your your parents were uh

164
00:08:14,919 --> 00:08:21,039
were strong supporters of Zionism and of

165
00:08:18,159 --> 00:08:22,879
of the embryonic uh from a rightwing

166
00:08:21,039 --> 00:08:25,319
family yeah and you served in the

167
00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:28,800
Israeli Army so it's quite difficult to

168
00:08:25,319 --> 00:08:31,879
pin the label anti-site on you as they

169
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:34,599
try to do on people like me when nothing

170
00:08:31,879 --> 00:08:36,479
could be further from the truth but

171
00:08:34,599 --> 00:08:37,839
here's no no but but but you're right

172
00:08:36,479 --> 00:08:39,760
what every time I was call an

173
00:08:37,839 --> 00:08:42,120
anti-semite or a suggestion that the

174
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,880
wondering is an anti anti-mite text I

175
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,360
said all right all right let's stop for

176
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:49,200
a second just tell me where did I speak

177
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:51,279
about Jews as a race as a people as

178
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:54,399
ethnicity I don't even talk about

179
00:08:51,279 --> 00:08:57,920
Judaism I don't even talk about Judaism

180
00:08:54,399 --> 00:09:01,480
I actually point at the very peculiar

181
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:05,279
fact in Jewish history that during those

182
00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:08,920
hundred of years of rabinal Judaism Jews

183
00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:11,640
have never been involved as a collective

184
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,240
in any genocide it's actually the

185
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,440
process of

186
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,839
secularism in the Jewish world that

187
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:22,240
introduced a very interesting and very

188
00:09:17,839 --> 00:09:26,120
devastating uh uh developments in Jewish

189
00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:29,000
culture so we see Zionism is just one

190
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,880
one aspect of it some will talk about

191
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:34,399
the the

192
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:36,560
predominance of a of a of a Jews within

193
00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:38,839
the neoconservative school of thought

194
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:40,920
other would talk about predominance of

195
00:09:38,839 --> 00:09:43,600
the Jews within the Bolshevik Revolution

196
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:46,279
and so on and so on something very very

197
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,000
interesting H happened at that period of

198
00:09:46,279 --> 00:09:52,160
history that start with emancipation

199
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:55,000
late 19th century and uh we are within

200
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,680
Academia you cannot even tackled this

201
00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:01,240
this H

202
00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:04,480
issue H scholarly because you may find

203
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:07,240
yourself being attacked or smeared or

204
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,920
abused by some Jewish lobbies or in my

205
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,640
case physically attacked let me finish

206
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:16,440
with this uh point the man who attacked

207
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:18,680
me converted to Judaism and now when

208
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:21,079
he's released from prison he's going to

209
00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:24,160
go and live in Israel where he has an

210
00:10:21,079 --> 00:10:26,959
automatic right of settlement

211
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:30,240
citizenship there's a fund that's going

212
00:10:26,959 --> 00:10:32,680
to fund his life there yeah a Birthright

213
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:36,680
except in his case he was a Christian

214
00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:39,120
until very recently he has no genetic uh

215
00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:41,639
connection to the land of Palestine At

216
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:45,200
All by the way but but not only that you

217
00:10:41,639 --> 00:10:47,320
are right and your your

218
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:50,959
attack the way in which you were were

219
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:54,160
attacked and the and the lameness of the

220
00:10:50,959 --> 00:10:57,360
reaction of the of the British media I

221
00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:59,959
found it totally devastating by the fact

222
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:04,279
the fact that the fact that gu is a

223
00:10:59,959 --> 00:11:06,240
converted and is not and was so vile is

224
00:11:04,279 --> 00:11:09,600
not very surprising you know we hear

225
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:11,959
about Isis all the time that a lot of

226
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,720
the combatants there are converts from

227
00:11:11,959 --> 00:11:16,760
Europe what I'm saying what I'm saying

228
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:20,760
and this was my first reaction to your

229
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:25,800
uh to this vile attack on you is that we

230
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:28,480
have to step up MI5 MI6 a police

231
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,760
Metropolitan Police or whatever must

232
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,200
Step Up

233
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:35,959
H their Ser Alliance and ESP Espionage

234
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:41,000
within within those Jewish communities

235
00:11:35,959 --> 00:11:45,120
how many how many um British Jews or

236
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:47,959
American American Jews served in Gaza in

237
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:50,440
the last three months in in the summer

238
00:11:47,959 --> 00:11:52,560
and were involved in this massacre you

239
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:55,320
know and if one Palestinian or one

240
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:58,519
Muslim had gone to fight for the

241
00:11:55,320 --> 00:12:02,839
Palestinian side yeah they'd already be

242
00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:08,200
behind these issues must be addressed

243
00:12:02,839 --> 00:12:10,200
and uh I'm not working in University I'm

244
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:14,480
completely independent I don't I'm not

245
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:16,440
an MP um I'm basically just musician I'm

246
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,639
free to say and do what I like to do

247
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,199
speak about your jazz music you

248
00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:22,240
mentioned in the beginning that you are

249
00:12:20,199 --> 00:12:24,240
not political but you have very

250
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,160
articulate political views and I was

251
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,240
just wondering how how does how does it

252
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:32,440
influence your music does it aect affect

253
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:35,120
some audience um would they boycott you

254
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:37,959
because of your St um there was

255
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,040
obviously a lot of attempts to to boycot

256
00:12:37,959 --> 00:12:43,480
me

257
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:46,560
but I'm I'm a nice guy and I'm Charming

258
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,560
so when they tried to call me an

259
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:50,959
anti-semite it was slightly pathetic

260
00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:52,800
because I had three Jews H in the band

261
00:12:50,959 --> 00:12:55,160
and when they called me a racist they

262
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,199
again they had a problem because I had a

263
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,480
black guy in the band you know all the

264
00:12:57,199 --> 00:13:02,160
you know it it just doesn't it they

265
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,320
never managed to stop my career for me

266
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:09,279
to be a jazz

267
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:13,360
musician is to develop this

268
00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:15,600
ability to reinvent yourself every night

269
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,519
it's pretty much the opposite of a

270
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,120
politician although you are very good at

271
00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:21,920
it I must admit which is genius G we're

272
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,399
going to we're going to have to continue

273
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:27,800
this uh another time because we've uh

274
00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:30,560
run over you're a fascinating guy as I

275
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,199
said Keep that it's great great to spend

276
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,720
time with you I wish we could do it

277
00:13:32,199 --> 00:13:36,920
thank you on a regular basis coming up

278
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,760
after the break Manchester is a long way

279
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,639
from mtown Detroit Michigan and mtown

280
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:45,560
singer and DJ Miss H is a long way from

281
00:13:42,639 --> 00:13:47,800
your archetypal Barry Gordy Starlet

282
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:50,000
continuing the theme of seeing the light

283
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:53,440
and tripping the light fantastic we'll

284
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,440
be right back

285
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:06,920
welcome back to Sputnik Music has

286
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:09,680
Charmed to soothe the Savage Beast said

287
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:12,480
William congrave in the 17th century it

288
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:14,839
certainly soothed me in the 1960s when I

289
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:18,279
discovered tamla Motown and its edgier

290
00:14:14,839 --> 00:14:20,639
cousin Stacks records Otis reading

291
00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:23,920
Marvin Gay little Stevie Wonder The

292
00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:26,839
Supremes The Temptations Jackson 5 and

293
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:29,759
also les we forget Simon Dave Junior

294
00:14:26,839 --> 00:14:32,639
Walker and the all stars if Chester is a

295
00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:35,639
long way from Moto Town how far distance

296
00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:38,560
is today's xfactor conveyor belt of

297
00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:41,279
manufactured music from very gy Soul

298
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,240
Factory perhaps not as far as you think

299
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:46,360
joining us now to discuss the distance

300
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:49,279
traveled is Miss H formerly from a

301
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:53,199
strict religious background now a real

302
00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:57,720
Soul Sister singer and DJ Miss H thanks

303
00:14:53,199 --> 00:15:00,839
for joining us it's my thesis that mtown

304
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:04,360
was exactly the same as The X Factor uh

305
00:15:00,839 --> 00:15:07,519
you had a maestro Barry Gordy in the

306
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:10,959
case of Motown uh Simon Cowell in the

307
00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:12,720
case of X Factor who put people together

308
00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:16,040
artificially who'd never met each other

309
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:19,000
before as bands and told them what they

310
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:22,040
should uh uh release and everyone was

311
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:24,680
happy because the world danced the

312
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,199
artists made a fortune Barry Gordy made

313
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,480
the biggest Fortune of all do you agree

314
00:15:26,199 --> 00:15:31,519
with that um I think that the way it's

315
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,360
engineered is probably similar but I

316
00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:37,040
think that the complete uh difference in

317
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,560
Motown and the style of singers the

318
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,319
fashion uh the words in the you know the

319
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,240
lyrics of the songs are completely

320
00:15:41,319 --> 00:15:46,560
different to some of the things we see

321
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:48,680
coming through on the X Factor I think

322
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,720
personally my humble opinion is

323
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:53,639
sometimes the music we see on X Factor

324
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:57,399
or the show itself is popular because

325
00:15:53,639 --> 00:15:59,040
we're told to think it's popular um you

326
00:15:57,399 --> 00:16:02,000
know with all the exposure that it gets

327
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,600
and all the hype that's on the show and

328
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,240
the way it tugs at your heartstrings

329
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,399
things like that but I think looking at

330
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,199
the show there's a lot of engineering

331
00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:15,000
and a bit of manipulation of people's

332
00:16:10,199 --> 00:16:18,720
emotions this year's 2014 X Factor Ben

333
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:22,160
Hao uh he's a decent fellow uh with a

334
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:25,040
half decent voice but he defeated in the

335
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:28,040
final ballot 10 million people having

336
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,800
voted by the way uh so it raised a lot

337
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:34,000
of money that ballot

338
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:36,319
uh Flur a black singer uh with

339
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,720
phenomenal talent I mean I'll predict

340
00:16:36,319 --> 00:16:40,240
that 12 months from now she'll be a

341
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,199
worldwide

342
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:46,759
Superstar uh but Ben Hao a rather

343
00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:49,800
ordinary act defeated her I take the

344
00:16:46,759 --> 00:16:52,399
view you may or may not agree that she

345
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,759
lost because she was black because she

346
00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:58,519
had a black family although a white

347
00:16:54,759 --> 00:17:01,440
father uh and because her music was

348
00:16:58,519 --> 00:17:03,560
black music and in a poll of 10

349
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:06,120
million although there will be Millions

350
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:08,360
who like black music that's not going to

351
00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:10,799
be a winner what's your

352
00:17:08,360 --> 00:17:12,919
view well if that was the case I would

353
00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:15,079
be absolutely horrified there's an actor

354
00:17:12,919 --> 00:17:18,039
from The IT Crowd I noticed in the um

355
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:20,000
mirror paper um said that the British

356
00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:22,319
public are quite discriminative against

357
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,919
black people which um surprised me it

358
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,720
was the first time really that i' looked

359
00:17:23,919 --> 00:17:29,400
into this on this subject I'm interested

360
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:31,880
in it you're white uh but you're a soul

361
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:36,039
singer you're a Motown singer you're a

362
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:38,160
Motown DJ you play black music yeah uh

363
00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:40,520
the people you're playing it too and

364
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,799
singing too are they black or are they

365
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,559
white and how do you explain it if

366
00:17:41,799 --> 00:17:46,160
they're white H there's a mix really I

367
00:17:44,559 --> 00:17:47,720
think the people that I'm drawn to and

368
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,559
who are drawn to me like the same kind

369
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,919
of genre of music R&B hip hop Soul mot

370
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:55,600
toown um I even get Northern Soul

371
00:17:52,919 --> 00:17:58,440
requests so I've got loads of that uh I

372
00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,159
think really it without offending anyone

373
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:03,280
I think it's it's the best kind of music

374
00:18:00,159 --> 00:18:05,320
it's got the best Rhythm the best vocals

375
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:08,240
I just prefer it more than the average

376
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:10,520
pop that you get and I really don't like

377
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:16,200
the average pop scene

378
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:20,559
really well the the origins of mtown are

379
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:25,360
of course in in the Blues in uh

380
00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:28,840
Jazz banks of the Mississippi the urban

381
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:32,320
the urban Wasteland of uh of the ghetto

382
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:35,799
and so on I'm wondering H how that's so

383
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:38,240
attractive to and appealing to People

384
00:18:35,799 --> 00:18:41,039
Like Us who don't come from there or

385
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,480
that uh background we we were lucky

386
00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:44,720
enough to be on the right side of the

387
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:47,440
tracks this music is from the wrong side

388
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,280
of the tracks what's the appeal I think

389
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,880
because this thing with so much feeling

390
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:54,720
and the lyrics you know they really grab

391
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:57,360
you I understand that mot toown um and

392
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:59,200
rap as well earlier rap does date back

393
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:01,200
to the times of Oppression and domestic

394
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,360
violence things like that and you know

395
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,799
wanting to be released from the

396
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:07,640
oppression and I think with some people

397
00:19:05,799 --> 00:19:09,880
who understand that they really really

398
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:14,840
do appreciate that kind of music well I

399
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:18,840
was there first time around um I would

400
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:20,679
have been in the dance halls uh around

401
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:24,440
uh

402
00:19:20,679 --> 00:19:27,240
6768 and this wave I mean talk about a

403
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:30,280
Hit Factory there there were hundreds of

404
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:32,720
hit records coming out to of Motown at

405
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:35,799
at that time so it was a soundtrack of

406
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:39,919
my youth but you weren't born then and

407
00:19:35,799 --> 00:19:42,200
yet you still love that same music tell

408
00:19:39,919 --> 00:19:44,960
us why well as you said it's got soul

409
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:47,080
that speaks to your heart and even

410
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,520
though I take your point of The X Factor

411
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,880
and Motown being similar music

412
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,760
Industries

413
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,880
factories it's as she said as Miss H

414
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,799
says the soul that gets through it that

415
00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:00,919
gets uh transferred to the listener is

416
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:04,799
completely different from nowadays from

417
00:20:00,919 --> 00:20:07,559
EST to Motown yeah kind but you know the

418
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:09,919
this concept of Simon cow people think

419
00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:11,679
it's Simon cow's concept of choosing

420
00:20:09,919 --> 00:20:14,440
entirely desperate people putting them

421
00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:19,120
together in a band first of all has

422
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:23,240
always been done secondly uh was done

423
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:25,440
not just by black music empresarios but

424
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,799
white the monkeys for example who

425
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,280
weren't actually a bad band they were

426
00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:34,320
for entire strangers who people were

427
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:36,240
invited to write in uh to join a band

428
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,640
called the monkeys and they rot in from

429
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:42,159
all over the country the United States

430
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:44,679
the world they became uh big stars or

431
00:20:42,159 --> 00:20:47,000
One Direction One Direction had never

432
00:20:44,679 --> 00:20:48,120
set eyes on each other before Simon car

433
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,919
put them together now they're the

434
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:52,760
biggest band in the entire world and

435
00:20:50,919 --> 00:20:55,440
Ronnie Wood of The Rolling Stones was

436
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:58,840
playing with them on stage on The X

437
00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:01,720
Factor final and guess what Wonder ction

438
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:04,320
are becoming quite a great

439
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,880
band you surprised at that I'm not

440
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,600
surprised because I do see a lot of

441
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,760
people that are fans especially in the

442
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,679
younger generation and I think they they

443
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:15,520
are quite suitable for maybe the younger

444
00:21:11,679 --> 00:21:17,520
generation um you know 10 year old me

445
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,360
but he was drawn to appear with them

446
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,200
because he could see that they've kind

447
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:24,320
of got something is that is that really

448
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:27,480
the case or is that just an engineered

449
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:29,880
media stunt uh well that's a good

450
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:32,159
question I I think I've got enough

451
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:34,520
respect for Ronnie Wood's Integrity that

452
00:21:32,159 --> 00:21:36,400
he wouldn't have played with them if uh

453
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,240
he doesn't need the money yeah uh he's

454
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,840
been with the Rolling Stones for 20

455
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:45,080
years uh playing for a million pounds

456
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:47,720
each per gig uh I think he saw something

457
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:50,559
in them which means that Simon Cowell

458
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:53,240
saw something in them that turned out to

459
00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:55,600
be right yeah okay tell us how you got

460
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:58,159
into this groove of MOT toown and Soul

461
00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,919
music and yeah how your friends and

462
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:03,799
family responded to that um I think from

463
00:22:00,919 --> 00:22:06,400
a very young age I've always been around

464
00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:09,760
um musical family my brother used to

465
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:12,600
play saxophone um my older brother used

466
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,840
to love his music too my sister always

467
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,279
used to play things like Whitney Houston

468
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,600
as she was getting ready to go out

469
00:22:16,279 --> 00:22:21,960
things like that um also you know

470
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:25,799
growing up I I had a really good chance

471
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:28,240
and opportunity to mix with an um a

472
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:29,840
diverse group of people so I was exposed

473
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,039
to a a lot of different kinds of music

474
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,440
and the main kind of music was M Town

475
00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:36,159
soul that kind of thing and I I just

476
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,640
developed a love for it and obviously

477
00:22:36,159 --> 00:22:39,679
looking up to people that were older

478
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,440
than me uh and the kind of music they

479
00:22:39,679 --> 00:22:44,320
liked I think that had a a measure of

480
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,760
influence and also uh since I've been

481
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:50,360
singing uh a lot more recently my

482
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:52,919
partner he's a major lover of soul and

483
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:54,880
R&B hip hop and he was the one really

484
00:22:52,919 --> 00:22:58,919
that pushed me into singing more soul

485
00:22:54,880 --> 00:23:01,919
and mtown and since then it's we quite a

486
00:22:58,919 --> 00:23:03,919
success for me yeah give us your website

487
00:23:01,919 --> 00:23:09,159
address so people could check you out

488
00:23:03,919 --> 00:23:13,039
miss. co.uk miss. co.uk there'll be a

489
00:23:09,159 --> 00:23:13,039
lot of people hitting right

490
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,320
now and now it's your turn to tell us

491
00:23:16,159 --> 00:23:20,320
what you think through the portals of

492
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,240
social media what's ratling gri we

493
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,760
talking about music Motown versus X

494
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,559
Factor it has sparked a lot of debate

495
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:31,000
let's put it that way Brandon Hall says

496
00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:33,159
both are about products Diana Ross and

497
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,679
The Supremes Talent does not mean

498
00:23:33,159 --> 00:23:38,640
anything nor did it ever you want real

499
00:23:35,679 --> 00:23:42,520
music go and see a live band in a small

500
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:44,799
Club well uh all acts start out as live

501
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,880
bands in uh small clubs and of course

502
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:49,039
it's a product everything in capitalist

503
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,760
Society is a product this television

504
00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:53,880
show is a product it doesn't invalidate

505
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,960
it the fact that one way or another

506
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,840
you've got to pay to see it and it's got

507
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:01,360
to be marketed so I I don't buy that

508
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,919
criticism I must say what about Roy G

509
00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:06,320
Simmon there's so much cynicism here pop

510
00:24:03,919 --> 00:24:09,039
music is what it is it is what is

511
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,640
popular on the day Mozart wrote pop

512
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:13,840
music motan was great and X Factor

513
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:17,200
reflects that but what is best is

514
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:19,840
totally subjective and Lucy pelli says

515
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,440
the message is what once took talent and

516
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:25,039
years of hard work can now be achieved

517
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,760
overnight with autotune and the right

518
00:24:25,039 --> 00:24:29,679
hairstyle I for one have got one well

519
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,960
you've got the perfect

520
00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:35,840
Ronette uh hairstyle the the ronet of

521
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:39,559
course were entirely manufactured by

522
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:42,880
Barry Gordy and under the direction of a

523
00:24:39,559 --> 00:24:45,320
a very crazy producer uh Phil Spectre

524
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,559
who's now serving life for murder yeah

525
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,200
know even though he created that

526
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:51,000
fantastic the wall of sound yeah I mean

527
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,080
these are all products I don't know why

528
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,840
people are being so sniffy about that

529
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:59,200
there's one thing I'm going to say

530
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:03,520
without fear of contradiction on the X

531
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:07,600
they have Motown nights where the acts

532
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:12,240
perform Motown classics 50 years from

533
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:15,919
now nobody will be doing garage Classics

534
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:19,679
or trans Classics or rap I know you like

535
00:25:15,919 --> 00:25:22,720
rap or rap Classics Motown has lived

536
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:25,480
will live new genre will fall by the

537
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,039
wayside I may sound like a grumpy old

538
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,159
man but that's my point of view well

539
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:31,240
let's close it with that then which alas

540
00:25:29,159 --> 00:25:34,000
means that's the end of the show you can

541
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,840
stay in touch with us on Twitter on rtor

542
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,360
Sputnik and on Facebook you can like us

543
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:41,120
on sputnic on Russia today it's goodbye

544
00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:44,520
from me gri and from me George Galloway

545
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,520
it's been marvelous

546
00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:48,880
[Music]