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okay I

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gatri the

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bodies have been buried the shooting for

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now at least has stilled but the

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reverberations of the killings in Paris

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are far from being played out in France

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more than a 100 attacks on Muslims and

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their properties have been reported well

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not reported by the mainstream media if

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you know what I mean there has been

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Mayhem in Belgium and the head of

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British Security Service says it's

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almost inevitable that a similar

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disaster is on its way to us we appear

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locked in an intractable conflict we can

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go blindly forwards or we can embrace

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the dictum that when you're in a hole

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the first thing you should do is stop

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digging joining us now to reflect on

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this is one of the world's leading

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Muslim analysts and its most eloquent

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spokesman the head of the Cordoba

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Foundation anas alrti anas welcome back

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to to the Sputnik uh it is still

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reverberating isn't it the Charlie hebdo

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magazine is about to be published and

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sold in Britain with inevitable protests

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I myself addressed a mass rally in

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Bradford last weekend uh making the

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point that was we utterly condemn the

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harming uh let alone the killing of

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anyone for anything they've said written

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drawn

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these are provocations these are not

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cartoons these are obscene and

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pornographic representations of a profet

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held dear by almost two billion people

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in the world it's asking for trouble

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well George first of all G thank you

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very much for inviting me back on the

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program um you're absolutely right I

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think you've hit the nail on the head uh

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I mean since when did um Europe measure

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its uh progress civility Liberty and

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development on the basis of its capacity

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and actitude to hurl insult and offend

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others and plus it's a mirage free

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speech is a lie when at the very rally

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the 1 and a half million March in Paris

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to condemn those atrocious attacks

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called the freedom of speech rally when

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the

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BBC correspondent there couldn't even

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dare ask a question without being

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reprimanded and forced to apologize I

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mean the irony is St it's not about

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freedom of speech it's uh here I mean

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we're talking about something that

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unfortunately we have totally lost

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control over and that is um how we

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behave ourselves I mean we thought it

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was uh exclusive to the political class

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we thought that only politicians can

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talk about democracy while supporting

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dictatorships can talk about human

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rights while exercising torture can talk

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about Liberty and freedom while

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censoring we thought it was only

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exclusive to politicians it it seems

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that actually societies as a whole are

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led by a media narrative that tells them

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to behave in a particular way that it's

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okay or not okay to do or say and

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unfortunately today uh you you sort of

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forget exactly what it is that we're

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fighting for as societies what do we

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stand for anymore when your measure of

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freedom is you know your ability to

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actually offend insult the most sacred

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uh figures and icons of three 3 million

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people who live amongst you whom you

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live amongst who share your neighborhood

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who share the marketplace from which you

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shop who share the restaurants you know

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from at which you eat and so on and so

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forth It's H it's it's quite disgusting

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the the level of of vital that that

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actually guides us and I fear I fear

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what we're calling on is more and more

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and more divisions more and more um

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apprehension um uh fear probably well

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fear and and and probably even out of

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those Millions will appear again a

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handful of idiots who choose to take

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things at their own hands and seek

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Vengeance which everyone condemns but

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ultimately you'll have to say listen if

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you poke someone in the eye once too

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many you have to expect a response well

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the security service uh have made that

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clear that it's almost inevitable that's

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this is their words that something like

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this is going to happen in Britain and

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the former head of the security services

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Sawyer said that these cartoons are are

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a provocation but you go on well um

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Charlie HDO sells itself as a sacal

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magazine in in in UK we've also got a

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similar like satire magazine called the

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private eye do you think it's in the

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same league not at all I mean private

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eye is is is a publication um you know

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if you go decades back it it has a long

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standing in Tradition in poking fun at

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politicians in expressing people's uh

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own uh bewilderment with the way that

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Pol Ians are acting with the political

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class with the kind of you know Silly

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and stupid statements that politicians I

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mean it's it's a totally different thing

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this is directed towards Muslims

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everywhere around the world Muslims and

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black people uh this cannot be uh

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forgotten hebdo's caricaturing of black

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people is utterly racist whether they're

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Muslim wasn't it the French Minister the

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black French Minister whom they depicted

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as an ape they depicted her as an ape

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the uh the girls in Nigeria who who were

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kidnapped who were caricatured as

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welfare Queens with pregnant bellies

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saying when do I get my benefits and so

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these are racist

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hypocritical uh scarless Magazine with

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one agenda only to attack the already

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marginalized to attack the already

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vulnerable and weak rather than the real

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job of a saturnist which I would argue

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is what privati does of holding the

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powerful and the rich to account we've

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got the front page here which sums it up

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perfectly there's that March in Paris to

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which you referred J charlatan they're

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saying we are charlatans you were too

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kind to them Netanyahu was at the front

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of the March he killed 17 journalists in

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Gaza just last summer the Saudi

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Ambassador was at the front of the March

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they're flogging people for blogging the

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Prime Minister and uh president of

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several African countries who routinely

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uh Jail uh and worse uh journalists and

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yet they they are Marching for we fre we

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we have a we have a problem and that

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problem is that now whilst hypocrisy was

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uh

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uh it was something that that was quite

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a a shameful label to carry yes it seems

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that now people don't really mind it and

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don't really

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mind showing that they don't mind it I

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mean the people there you know people

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who actually have blood on their hands

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um arriving at a scene where people are

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supposedly talking about the freedom of

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speech I most of the people leading that

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the that particular line were people who

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wouldn't allow or in fact actively

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closed down areas and spaces for people

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to express themselves so being there is

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as though I'm you know sending a message

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I'm not only going to oppress you I'm

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going to you know sort of celebrate

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being here while suppressing you I don't

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even care about being accused of

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oppressing you anymore and that is and

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and that is where I think we have we

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have a real problem and and I My Hope

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was and I have to say that sectors of

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the media have behaved incredibly

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responsibly and you know the the

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responses to some of the idiotic

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statements and tweets made by people

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like like Rupert Murdoch like uh Steve

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Emerson of late who who spoke of

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Birmingham as being an entirely Muslim

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uh Muslim City he hounded me for many

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decades as a terrorism expert and he

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thought that Birmingham United Kingdom

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was Muslim no go area for non-muslims I

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mean these these people um the when they

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spoke the massive response that came

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from non-muslims to them you know the

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way that JK Rowling for instance a said

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you know if I have to be responsible for

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for rupit Murdoch the way that he he

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helds the entire Muslim Community

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responsible for those criminals in in

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France then you know I'm you know it's

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it's it's amazing let's go deeper

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because uh time is short um

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this is located in the so-called war on

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terror The Invasion and occupation of

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one Arab and Muslim country after

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another these things don't come out of

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thin air Western countries like ours

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like uh the United States and France

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laterally have been deeply implicated in

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The Invasion occupation of Arab

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countries Muslim countries in the

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buttressing of dictatorships in other

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Muslim countries against their uh people

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and the motivation of these lunatics

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these criminals who did all this in

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Paris uh was itself born uh out of that

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they told us so in their videos true um

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are we locked into this constant war and

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is it going to get worse well unless we

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change our ways George I mean in your

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introduction you you said it I mean now

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what 13 14 years on year on year as the

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if we were to believe everything the

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intelligence Services tell us things are

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getting worse more and more recruits

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more and more sympathized to the

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terrorist cause uh you know more and

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more attacks are being fought that's

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what they tell us at least we don't know

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the reality so if we're to believe that

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it means that for the past 13 years year

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on year there has been a failure but no

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one is brave enough to stand up and say

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hang on we've got it wrong we must think

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in a in a different way I mean I think

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it was the the former French prime

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minister dilipan brilliant brilliant

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politic someone whom I I have immense

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because he was with us remember at the

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time of the war in Iraq

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of spech and the way in he which he

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spoke while while still the you know the

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smoke was churning out of those places

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in Paris and he said you know this isn't

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the the the fault of Islam it's the

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fault of Western policies going

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absolutely berserk and creating you know

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anomalies such as Isis and and others in

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in the Middle East someone like him

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needs to be heard more it's actually the

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fact that these people first of all they

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are products of Europe not of some

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Muslim country in in fact in that

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particular scene the product of a Muslim

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country was the guy who protected the

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Jews in the kosher shop and led them to

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safety to save their lives that was the

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product of a Muslim land Mali otherwise

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The Killers if we again are to believe

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who they they are and and their

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backgrounds they're products of British

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societies of French societies of

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European societies why blame Islam most

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Muslims around the world don't behave in

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that way most Muslims around the world

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whilst being grossly offended by Charlie

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ABDO never went and attacked one

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haphazardly in the street never in fact

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only a couple of days ago I was having

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this debate with with a local counselor

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who was very very much against you know

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the the presence of Muslims in in our

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locality I said to him listen there are

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hundreds of thousands of British experts

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who live work and spend their entire

278
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:53,440
lives in Muslim countries wouldn't it be

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easy if that were the tendency the DNA

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the intrinsic in you know instinctive

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reaction of Muslims to to basically set

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upon those people within the Muslim

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Community who he believed you know

284
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believed in Shar and believed in

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attacking all non-muslims wouldn't that

286
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,639
be the case but we never hear of that

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simply because Muslims are not so

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inclined and we need to understand that

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these people weren't radicalized because

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of a passage they read in the Quran or

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something they heard of the Prophet it

292
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was because they saw images of Abu it

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was because of the stories they heard

294
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coming out from Guantanamo it was

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because they heard that their own

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government had committed atrocities in

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various countries including Muslim

298
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countries and they became in the way

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that they did that's no justification

300
00:12:33,399 --> 00:12:37,240
but we need to understand how this is

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created and we need to understand that

302
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:42,360
unless we change course this might

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00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:45,279
happen again final word literally 10

304
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:50,240
seconds what's your view on chilot being

305
00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:53,560
postponed I think it's uh it's because

306
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:56,680
it'll cost in the coming election I

307
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:59,399
think that

308
00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:01,440
uh truth hasn't been found I I think

309
00:12:59,399 --> 00:13:03,120
truth wasn't even sort at some stage

310
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,160
that's not no condemnation of Lord

311
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,199
chilot himself but the whole inquiry and

312
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,440
its remit I don't think it really wanted

313
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to get to the bottom of what happened in

314
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:14,320
2003 which may turn out to be and I

315
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:17,120
think it is the crime of our time I told

316
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:19,680
you he was eloquent and US alter thank

317
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:22,399
you very much for joining us coming up

318
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:24,760
after the break he's been an interne a

319
00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:27,279
convicted political prisoner the founder

320
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:29,880
of a world-class Festival written poetry

321
00:13:27,279 --> 00:13:32,079
plays political tracks news newspapers

322
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:34,839
and now the relaunch and much improved

323
00:13:32,079 --> 00:13:36,720
edition of his novel West Belfast he's

324
00:13:34,839 --> 00:13:39,279
Danny Morrison and he's up on the

325
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,279
Sputnik

326
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[Music]

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next welcome back to Sputnik Danny

328
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:49,680
Morrison is an iconic figure in the long

329
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:52,240
struggle for Irish unity and

330
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:54,720
independence from Britain he spent years

331
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:57,000
behind bars as a political prisoner like

332
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,199
so many thousands of others of course

333
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,920
one difference is that while prison was

334
00:13:59,199 --> 00:14:03,160
a university for all Republican

335
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,000
prisoners for Denny Morrison it was a

336
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,600
gateway to his current role as a

337
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,839
renaissance man he's a poet a playright

338
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,399
an author a journalist a propagandist

339
00:14:09,839 --> 00:14:15,160
for his cause without peer and with the

340
00:14:12,399 --> 00:14:17,320
revised and reissued West Belfast again

341
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,639
a novelist of what we now call the

342
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:22,079
troubles and he joins us now Danny

343
00:14:19,639 --> 00:14:25,680
Morrison welcome on board the Sputnik

344
00:14:22,079 --> 00:14:28,399
let me say it is a brilliant novel thank

345
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:30,360
you touching beautifully observed

346
00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:34,199
troubling of of course

347
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:36,240
disturbing uh and you wrote it 25 years

348
00:14:34,199 --> 00:14:39,240
ago that's right but this is effectively

349
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:42,160
now being launched in fact its official

350
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:45,519
launch is next week next Thursday 20 25

351
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:48,320
years is a long time between between

352
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:50,839
writing and launching explain why well

353
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,399
when it was published 25 years ago uh

354
00:14:50,839 --> 00:14:55,240
within a couple of weeks I was arrested

355
00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:57,720
and charged with conspiracy to murder

356
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,440
and kidnapping and Ira membership and

357
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,360
was sentenced to 8 years impr prison for

358
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,399
that although that has subsequently been

359
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,519
overturned I was set up by a British

360
00:15:03,399 --> 00:15:08,480
agent a man under the name of steak

361
00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:10,240
knife was his code name uh so that has

362
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,759
been overturned and I'm currently suing

363
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,639
the British government for wrongful

364
00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:18,040
arrest so in actual fact this next

365
00:15:14,639 --> 00:15:20,320
Thursday is the official launch of West

366
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,000
Belfast uh my publisher decided to

367
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,680
reissue it to celebrate the fact that it

368
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,199
was 25 years old and when I went back

369
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,240
looking at it I realized oh my God it

370
00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:32,160
was full of purple pros and to many

371
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,959
adjectives and adverbs and I decided to

372
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,040
cut a lot out so I cut about 15,000

373
00:15:33,959 --> 00:15:39,399
words out but I ended up putting about

374
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:41,680
5,000 words in the same story same plot

375
00:15:39,399 --> 00:15:44,480
but the nness community what it was like

376
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:46,959
for them a peaceful community that tried

377
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,199
uh peaceful means to get their civil

378
00:15:46,959 --> 00:15:49,959
rights and of course they were

379
00:15:48,199 --> 00:15:51,680
suppressed and beaten into the ground so

380
00:15:49,959 --> 00:15:54,880
it covers all of the major events in the

381
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:58,319
early days Civil Rights Movement uh the

382
00:15:54,880 --> 00:16:01,240
pgms of 1969 false curfew and of course

383
00:15:58,319 --> 00:16:03,360
inter blood Sunday and it covers that

384
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,600
period and it shows you high a peaceful

385
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:09,319
community a section of it could move

386
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:11,319
towards supporting uh an arm struggle

387
00:16:09,319 --> 00:16:14,560
well the

388
00:16:11,319 --> 00:16:17,000
characterization uh I remember although

389
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,720
Scotland and West Belfast are quite

390
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,759
different places in many respects the

391
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,600
lives of workingclass people were very

392
00:16:20,759 --> 00:16:25,759
similar Sunday Post Sunday post was even

393
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,399
in the novel The your mother in her

394
00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:30,079
apron not taking her apron off until

395
00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:34,759
quite late in the evening signaling that

396
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:38,959
her day is done and so on uh the faith

397
00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:41,319
uh then quite common in workingclass uh

398
00:16:38,959 --> 00:16:44,120
communities you and I are both quite

399
00:16:41,319 --> 00:16:47,079
good propagandists it's easy for us to

400
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,680
write political tracks it's very much

401
00:16:47,079 --> 00:16:51,120
more difficult to write a novel and I

402
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,839
don't know that I could do it you get

403
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,959
the dialogue beautifully did you find

404
00:16:53,839 --> 00:16:57,839
that difficult well well thank you very

405
00:16:55,959 --> 00:17:00,560
much for that I mean I always wanted to

406
00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:03,360
be a writer and when the troubles broke

407
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:06,240
out I I mean I remember the first time I

408
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,720
bought a typewriter uh to write poetry

409
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,720
and to write novels but the first letter

410
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,919
that I wrote was a letter to our local

411
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,160
paper the Irish news protesting against

412
00:17:11,919 --> 00:17:15,880
the shoo and dead of William hollan by

413
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,280
the British Army on the Falls Road so

414
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,400
there's always this split between you

415
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,679
know what I wanted to do I ended up

416
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:27,000
whatever I suppose purported talent I

417
00:17:22,679 --> 00:17:29,039
had towards uh explaining things uh I I

418
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,240
devoted myself to the Republican cause

419
00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:34,799
for 25 30 years I was in prison when the

420
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,679
ceasefire was called and uh this novel

421
00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:39,080
had just been published before my arrest

422
00:17:36,679 --> 00:17:40,640
I wrote two more books in prison and

423
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,919
when I came out the peace process was

424
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,440
underway and I know a conversation with

425
00:17:42,919 --> 00:17:47,120
a friend and com Jerry Adams who

426
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,559
supported me and going down this road so

427
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,640
I've you know as of car a literary

428
00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:52,600
career but I still keep my hand and I'm

429
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,480
still much interested in commentating on

430
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,280
what is going on not just in Ireland but

431
00:17:54,480 --> 00:18:00,760
of course internationally well of course

432
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:03,840
there's a a very important new turn in

433
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,880
Irish British relations which is in a

434
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,720
way foretold in your book in the

435
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,880
interrogation scene uh tell us about

436
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,200
that well when I was researching the

437
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,200
book I interviewed three of the men the

438
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,799
hooded men these were people who were

439
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,679
arrested during interment week in

440
00:18:17,799 --> 00:18:22,159
1971 uh they were brought away to the

441
00:18:19,679 --> 00:18:25,520
secret interrogation Center they were

442
00:18:22,159 --> 00:18:27,320
subjected to uh beat White Noise mock

443
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:30,000
executions were thrown out of

444
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:33,039
helicopters forced run over glass were

445
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:35,240
deprived of food and water for up to 10

446
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:37,080
days they were dressed and this is where

447
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,720
the it's amazing you know when history

448
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,440
comes repeats itself almost in guantan

449
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,240
Lake they had hoods on for those those

450
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:46,080
those eight to nine days and they were

451
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,679
just in one outfit and an overall and

452
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,880
they were forced to stand against the

453
00:18:47,679 --> 00:18:52,679
wall now the Irish government took the

454
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:55,919
British government to the European Court

455
00:18:52,679 --> 00:18:57,280
uh on torture allegations back in 1971

456
00:18:55,919 --> 00:19:00,520
and of course the British government

457
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:02,919
denied these allegations but recently as

458
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,960
a result of work by the human rights

459
00:19:02,919 --> 00:19:06,440
organization the pat fukan Center and

460
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,520
Pat fukan of course was a human rights

461
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,400
lawyer whom Britain was involved in

462
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:14,559
assassinating with loyalists uh the

463
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,840
pukan center came across this letter at

464
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:18,559
Q Gardens buried and along with

465
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,360
thousands of other documents showing

466
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:22,400
Merlin reays who was then the Secretary

467
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:24,039
of State writing to James Callahan who

468
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,760
was then the Liber prime minister

469
00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:29,720
stating that the government had cleared

470
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:32,120
the torture and that Lord car Arington

471
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,440
himself Ministry of Defense had cleared

472
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:35,480
and this is why their people could they

473
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,039
had to defend the police and the the

474
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:41,440
soldiers involved and as a result of

475
00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:43,080
torture he uses the word torture and uh

476
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,720
as a result of this document being found

477
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:48,280
by the pukan center the Irish government

478
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,720
four weeks ago has reinstated the

479
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,960
torture case in European court so

480
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,360
Britain is now once again in the duck

481
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:58,120
for what it did in

482
00:19:54,360 --> 00:20:00,720
Ireland well puk's been Pat Fan's son uh

483
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:02,559
has been on this uh show and Lord

484
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:06,200
Carrington's still alive you know he's

485
00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:08,600
95 and he's still alive and he Merin re

486
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,000
in a British an official letter although

487
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,520
a letter that was of course hidden from

488
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,480
the public states that Lord carington

489
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,919
and the British government and by the

490
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:19,240
way Merlin re also says I spoke to LIT

491
00:20:16,919 --> 00:20:21,559
bran Faulkner about this and he confirms

492
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,400
this that's and bran Faulkner was of

493
00:20:21,559 --> 00:20:25,280
course the prime minister at Stormont

494
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,320
who was in charge whenever interment was

495
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,440
introduced with devastating effect which

496
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:33,159
also you had a massive m in in in B

497
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:35,799
Murphy as the parat troopers were making

498
00:20:33,159 --> 00:20:37,960
arrests they they killed uh many many

499
00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:40,000
people including a priest we' had the

500
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:43,679
filmmaker who's made the film belly

501
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:46,000
Murphy also on the show now without ever

502
00:20:43,679 --> 00:20:48,200
uh accusing or asking you to acknowledge

503
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,120
that you've ever held a sword the pen in

504
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,400
your case is definitely mightier than

505
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:56,559
the sword isn't it because even British

506
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:58,600
cabinet ministers like Michael Portillo

507
00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:01,320
uh go and see your plays and mark them

508
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:05,480
10 out of 10 in their literary uh

509
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:07,760
criticism uh did you learn this during

510
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,919
your time in prison or did you did you

511
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:12,679
feel you had an nent Talent you got the

512
00:21:09,919 --> 00:21:15,120
typewriter uh when you were young how

513
00:21:12,679 --> 00:21:18,120
how much of a part did prison play in

514
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:20,279
your flowering as a literary figure well

515
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:23,400
I mean as I said earlier I always wanted

516
00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:25,120
to be a rer and I I kept daries 1968

517
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,200
right up until I was a republican

518
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:29,720
activist 1972 when I could no longer

519
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,440
keep daries uh I've been in prison four

520
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:34,159
times the last time I was in in in

521
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,600
prison I really got down to reading and

522
00:21:34,159 --> 00:21:37,799
catching up on all the works you know

523
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,600
like the Russian and German literature

524
00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:42,080
uh world literature that I had missed

525
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,760
out on so I I was always practicing my

526
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,120
writing and I suppose in writing

527
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,760
speeches for people uh in making

528
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:50,240
speeches and and doing interviews I was

529
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,279
also the editor of Shin's National

530
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,840
newspaper for many years and I was the

531
00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:56,640
national director of publicity for

532
00:21:53,840 --> 00:22:00,320
shinen for 11 years uh during a hectic

533
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:04,760
period in the uh late 70s and uh

534
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:07,679
throughout the 1980s so I I see now I'm

535
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:10,240
a great grandfather I'm uh still

536
00:22:07,679 --> 00:22:13,159
interested in politics but I my main

537
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,200
interest is in in writing Works which

538
00:22:13,159 --> 00:22:16,320
are worthy of the of of the community

539
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,600
there's always going to be a political

540
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,000
element to it me one of my books was uh

541
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,360
which which I wrote In present was uh

542
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,640
about a gay Postman and Loyalist

543
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:27,960
prisoners in in the Gil were slagging me

544
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,279
and shirting abusing me because of that

545
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,520
another one of my books the wrong man

546
00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:34,320
was written from uh an informer's point

547
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,200
of view sympathetic portrayal of an

548
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,480
Informer which some of my comrades in

549
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:41,360
the Republic movement found uh a bit

550
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:43,960
strange given the fact that myself and

551
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:45,919
others had been sentenced to uh well

552
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:49,320
between us about 100 years in jail on

553
00:22:45,919 --> 00:22:52,760
the word of a British agent one of the

554
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:56,159
most honorable things about your preface

555
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:58,640
to the reissued West Belfast is your

556
00:22:56,159 --> 00:23:04,240
acknowledgement that you you may have

557
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:08,159
have wrongly caricatured your opponents

558
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:10,960
enemies uh because of a lack of

559
00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:15,000
knowledge a lack of interface in the in

560
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:17,640
the 25 years since you've learned more

561
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:21,559
uh about the people on the other side if

562
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:22,919
you like of the of the wall was that

563
00:23:21,559 --> 00:23:26,039
difficult to do and

564
00:23:22,919 --> 00:23:28,039
acknowledge well uh well of course as a

565
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:29,880
result of the peace process and as a

566
00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:32,159
result of the you know the the movement

567
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,600
towards reconciliation I've met and have

568
00:23:32,159 --> 00:23:35,720
become friends with a lot of people who

569
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,200
were you know considered characterized

570
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,400
as former enemies including former I men

571
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:43,320
former British soldiers and former

572
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,720
unionist politicians and I think this is

573
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,679
the importance of talking and engagement

574
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:51,000
is is you know it's so clear to me I

575
00:23:48,679 --> 00:23:54,480
mean the irony of the British government

576
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:56,840
released J Adam in terment in 1972 flew

577
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,600
him and other leaders by in an RAF plan

578
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,200
to come to London for talks at a time

579
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,760
when they had no mandate and then when

580
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,799
he gets elected they B him from entering

581
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,960
Britain and they introduce the

582
00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:06,640
broadcasting act they've got all of

583
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,960
these Aries so the importance and I

584
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,679
think it's an international it's a

585
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,440
position I would hold internationally

586
00:24:09,679 --> 00:24:14,840
regardless of how the temptation to

587
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,919
demonize the enemy It's always important

588
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,320
to talk it's the most important thing I

589
00:24:16,919 --> 00:24:21,440
think in terms of Peace building is to

590
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,960
to always engage in talks and I think

591
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,840
this is applicable right across the

592
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,840
world particularly in the Middle East

593
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,640
Danny this would make a cracking film

594
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:32,840
have you had any offers yet no I I haed

595
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:34,039
well the wrong man the play was uh

596
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,120
people were interested in making the

597
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:38,039
film F but then like all of these things

598
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:39,960
they go through phases one year it's

599
00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:41,960
going to be a gangster movie next year

600
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,679
it's going to be an Escape movie so

601
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,039
hopefully we'll see maybe you've got

602
00:24:43,679 --> 00:24:48,960
some contact well I do have one or two

603
00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:51,600
filmic uh contacts uh I'll send it over

604
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:54,279
to Sean Penn Danny Morrison thanks for

605
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,279
coming thank

606
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,799
you and now it's your turn to tell us

607
00:24:57,919 --> 00:25:02,159
what you think through the portals of

608
00:24:59,799 --> 00:25:04,159
social media what's rattling guy well I

609
00:25:02,159 --> 00:25:06,919
asked the people uh to reflect on the

610
00:25:04,159 --> 00:25:09,440
Paris attacks and for example the March

611
00:25:06,919 --> 00:25:12,080
that took place in Paris right after it

612
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,679
and Hannah slate responds well when you

613
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,080
invite Israeli and Arabs leaders to of

614
00:25:14,679 --> 00:25:19,440
Paris March focusing on peace and Free

615
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:22,640
Speech you've either got a dark sense of

616
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:25,240
humor or you're mad very well put and

617
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:28,120
earthian says false Flags to Garner

618
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:30,279
support for more bankers and Wars proit

619
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:32,360
over over people well that's it for this

620
00:25:30,279 --> 00:25:34,279
week which alas means that's the end of

621
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:37,240
the show you can keep in touch with us

622
00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:39,320
on Twitter rtor Sputnik and on Facebook

623
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,120
Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye

624
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,960
from me gatri and from me George

625
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,960
Galloway it's been marvelous

626
00:25:45,730 --> 00:25:48,779
[Music]

627
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:57,769
[Music]