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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me Cathy our

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first guest Dominic frisbee is that rare

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thing a funny anarchist he's a comedian

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and author and expert on money and

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economics and a man with a vision of

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life after the state Marx believed the

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state would wither away but after a long

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time and when a state of communism had

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finally been reached Dominic believes

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the state should be cut down now leaving

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us to the tender mercy I would say a

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free-market barbarism he came to our

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attention with his dissertation on the

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house price bubble where he argued in

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the property market where a train crash

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waiting to happen is he a whistleblower

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for freedom we'll find out because he

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joins me now on the Sputnik dominic

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welcome to the show thank you about with

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the train crash described it as its

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hurtling towards us please well listen

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London is an entity in itself and I've

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called the top in London property before

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I was there I was 2007 and I was right

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there was a I won't call it a crash

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where there's a big slowdown in 2008

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2009 but the difference between then and

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now is that there's a huge amount of new

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build property that has built been built

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in London very expensive most of it to

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bed flats priced over a million pounds

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and Londoners it's it's all marketed

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marketed abroad mostly in Asia Londoners

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if they can prefer to live in period

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property it's nicer it's more stylish

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it's more individual and they will live

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in new builds but only if it's priced

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considerably lower than period property

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but on a per-square-foot basis a lot of

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this period property is priced more

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expensively than period properties in

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the same areas and I can't remember the

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numbers so forgive me George but it's

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something like I want to say 53,000 to

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bed flats are coming to the market over

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them that either being

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or in they have planning permission in

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the early stages of construction coming

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to the market over the next two or three

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years when something like 3,000

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properties priced above a million sold

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in this at the same price last year so

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in other words you're looking at

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something like you know 20 times normal

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demand coming to the market in the next

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24 months and like I say it's it's new

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build period property there's property

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that locals don't want and there's a

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long history of price bubbles we had the

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price bubbles in the other city centers

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in the UK Manchester Birmingham leads in

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2007 and it was all prime located city

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centre new build flats not bought by

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locals but by foreign or investors not

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from the city and the same pattern is

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happening again so London property is

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very resilient but that particular niche

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new builds expensive flats is a huge

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bubble difference however is that

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foreigners who invest and buy these

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properties then do not occupy it and

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until you stay empty we see it

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everywhere that that is absolute madness

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and and I believe there's a culture in

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China where a lot of these properties

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are marketing the Hong Kong Singapore

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China and there is a culture there where

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they don't live like to live in people's

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houses that if somebody else's lived in

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and but the result is that those

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properties stay empty and there has to

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come a point where those people will

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want to sell and who's gonna buy them

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because they can't sell to other Chinese

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people there's obviously a lot of

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Chinese people with a lot of money

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potentially buy property but they if the

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Chinese aren't gonna want to buy them if

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they've been occupied by somebody else

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so who do they sell to there's no local

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market because the locals don't wanna

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don't have the money to buy that the

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property that's that expensive a local

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if he's got a million pounds to spend on

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two bed flat were going by somewhere

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trendy and shoreditch if I was the mayor

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of london i would tax the

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foreign owners that can't be beyond the

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wit of man or woman could I think that's

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coming George because um there is a the

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property market in London is crazy it's

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it's something like ten times what

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people earn and whereas a healthy market

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should be about three and a half four

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times what people earn a Camden is for

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some reason the worst offending borough

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in that regard it has it's at eleven

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times earnings candid property and you

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know there's a huge amount of resentment

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over fifty percent of people aged under

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forty believe they will never own a home

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in London fifty percent and you know and

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and and foot the age of the first time

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buyer is now in his high 30s in London

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you know that that's the age is buying

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his first flat what point is he starting

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his family it's absolute insanity and

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you know there is so much anger and

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justifiable anger about this and one of

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the ways that you know people are

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already calling on a vacant homes tax

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Islington is already researching it and

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if they start imposing a vacant homes

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taxed and a lot of people going to sell

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those to build properties like I say who

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are they going to sell them to yeah that

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all adds up to a tumble in the prices

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what's the infatuation with owning

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property first of all of course for most

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of your life you don't own it you're the

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building society or the bank owns it in

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France as I understand it in Paris most

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people live in rented homes in London

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you would be regarded by mrs. Thatcher

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like the 30 year old man still traveling

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on a bus as one of life's failures if

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you were in a rented at home where did

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this come from this very British in fact

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yeah the Englishman's home is his castle

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and I think one of the reasons for it is

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George is over the last 40 years or so

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we have seen an incredible process by

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which money has been debased by which

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money has lost its purchasing power if

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you look at what you could buy with a

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pound in 1975 or 1970 compared to what

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you can buy with a pound now we've seen

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this incredible depreciation in the

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purchasing power of money and at the

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same time wages have increased but by

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not nearly as much as the purchasing

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power of money

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fallen and the reason for that is that

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money is created on a huge scale and

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again I can't remember the numbers of an

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organization called positive money it

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came out with them but over fifty

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percent of newly created money has found

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its way into our residential or

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commercial property so in other words

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what has happened with property is that

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property price in short property has

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been one of the only ways that people

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have been able to protect their wealth

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their money has fallen in value

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purchasing power their wages have fallen

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regiment relative terms and the only

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hedge against the depreciation of money

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has been property in fact in many

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people's minds property has actually

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risen in value and they think oh house

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prices only ever go up so i think it's

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it's it's this huge wealth that has come

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unearned into people that have dr i sold

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my house for more than a million pounds

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more than i bought it for and i had the

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privilege of living in it for did you

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get it up to 17 years not very much

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frankly running repairs and so on

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nothing I mean definitely i made a clear

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million pound profile properties is

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absurd it's like a car car falls in

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values a depreciating asset propertied

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appreciates over time it should fall in

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value the cause is the fact that did you

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know this only two percent of all the

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land in the in england and wales doesn't

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include scotland this figure it's even

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worse if you include scotland has

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domestic housing on it two percent and

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and if you and sorry I seem worse than

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that it's 2.2% domestic and commercial

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housing on it and if you include roads

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there only four percent of the land in

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the UK is built on not you see we're

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overcrowded no money left I'm very

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interested in your work I don't actually

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agree with your central tenets that the

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state is a bad thing I'm against the

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people running the state not the state

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per se most of the intentions behind the

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state are good most intention

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well intentioned but along the line what

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happens in the process just get abused

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people don't enforce the rules they make

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properly you know the one missing in the

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moment is the rules of maastricht words

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enforced and now we've got this

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ridiculous Greek in Greek situation so

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my tenant against the state is that it

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it it always ends up getting corrupted

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somehow this almost has no state it has

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now a series of foreign overlords barons

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issuing diktats in it but the Greek

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people are not prospering as their state

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has without know but my point would be

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it's a philosophical question I know

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it's not the state who will provide for

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the pensioners who will provide a health

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service who will provide schools for our

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children based on on need rather than

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life financial ability people will

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because I'm what's called a

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bleeding-heart libertarian I call myself

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and I think most people are

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compassionate and most people will you

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know you need to go out more well this

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is a huge this conversation we'll have

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this conversation another program this

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is a huge subject but i'll give you the

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bleeding-heart libertarian argument i'd

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be interested to see what you make of it

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but the problem is you can't afford to

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pay the state to provide schools and

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education thing and then afford to buy

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all those things yourself but if the

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state isn't providing them then and it's

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not taxing you the individual people are

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left with a lot more money the state is

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the most expensive purchase you ever

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make in your life more expensive than

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even your house and if you suddenly have

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that capital to spend and invest

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yourself many people will invest that in

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care education and all the things the

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states currently provide and when the

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people who are spending the money rather

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than having the government spending on

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your behalf customers are very good in

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forces of proper behavior on the people

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that they buy from so things like health

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care and education so on will people

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will compete for those and trades and

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the quality of service will improve and

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the price of those services will fall

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these are tory arguments but you don't

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seem like a Tory I'm not I'm

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I'm a I'm a libertarian I'm a black ass

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I'm a bleeding heart libertarian I heard

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the term libertarian Marxist for the

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first time no that's definitely an

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oxymoron it is seconds left yeah is the

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house market about to plunge newbuilds

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i'm wearing a lunch give me a percentage

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listen I looked vauxhall sw8 has 30

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years of supply coming to the market in

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the next two years 30 years of supplier

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built yeah new boxer is newbies so we're

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here it'll be on so wait before you buy

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in vauxhall twenty eight twenty five

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percent I'll say eighty-five percent off

273
00:12:11,060 --> 00:12:16,160
the market it'll last a year from now

274
00:12:13,100 --> 00:12:18,190
we'll have you back on God not if not

275
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,600
before take two years it takes you days

276
00:12:18,190 --> 00:12:23,330
Dominic I really hope that people look

277
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:26,300
up your work you got a website Dominic

278
00:12:23,330 --> 00:12:28,730
frisbee calm Dominic frisbee calm he's a

279
00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:31,580
really really interesting character

280
00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:34,880
coming up after the break what happened

281
00:12:31,580 --> 00:12:39,640
to Britain when and how did it become a

282
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,640
gambler's paradise we'll be right back

283
00:12:42,609 --> 00:12:47,689
welcome back to Sputnik when I was a kid

284
00:12:45,649 --> 00:12:50,660
gambling was so illegal in this country

285
00:12:47,689 --> 00:12:54,049
that not a single bookmaker shop let

286
00:12:50,660 --> 00:12:56,479
alone casino existed in the land people

287
00:12:54,049 --> 00:12:59,089
who wanted to place wagers on horse

288
00:12:56,479 --> 00:13:01,160
races did so with a criminal bookie and

289
00:12:59,089 --> 00:13:03,769
his bookies runner standing on the

290
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:06,589
street corner was regularly subject to

291
00:13:03,769 --> 00:13:10,249
arrest one of the mysteries of this age

292
00:13:06,589 --> 00:13:12,379
is how Britain became transformed into a

293
00:13:10,249 --> 00:13:15,229
gambler's paradise and under the prime

294
00:13:12,379 --> 00:13:17,239
ministership of a Labour government led

295
00:13:15,229 --> 00:13:19,429
at the end by a figure Gordon Brown

296
00:13:17,239 --> 00:13:21,919
whose father was a church of scotland

297
00:13:19,429 --> 00:13:24,979
minister and who was otherwise bowed

298
00:13:21,919 --> 00:13:28,369
down by the burdens of Presbyterian

299
00:13:24,979 --> 00:13:30,889
rectitude now you can't move for bookies

300
00:13:28,369 --> 00:13:32,839
and a televised advertisement you can

301
00:13:30,889 --> 00:13:35,779
even lose your house while sitting in

302
00:13:32,839 --> 00:13:38,839
playing online who let the small print a

303
00:13:35,779 --> 00:13:40,729
gambler's should behave responsibly not

304
00:13:38,839 --> 00:13:43,100
worth the paper it isn't rested on

305
00:13:40,729 --> 00:13:44,959
joining us now to discuss how and why it

306
00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:46,789
happened and take a flutter on where

307
00:13:44,959 --> 00:13:48,949
we're headed this professor Jim orford

308
00:13:46,789 --> 00:13:52,189
of the University or Birmingham but

309
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:55,189
first gayatri red gloves and all ask the

310
00:13:52,189 --> 00:13:57,819
London public what they thought gambling

311
00:13:55,189 --> 00:13:59,869
still seems like I've fin just um

312
00:13:57,819 --> 00:14:01,970
exploiting people getting their money

313
00:13:59,869 --> 00:14:04,579
sort of think I'm fair odds like you're

314
00:14:01,970 --> 00:14:06,350
never really gonna win like yeah just

315
00:14:04,579 --> 00:14:08,660
another transfer money into the hands of

316
00:14:06,350 --> 00:14:11,029
wealthy people I think it's out of

317
00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:15,139
control for some people I think it

318
00:14:11,029 --> 00:14:16,789
becomes addictive and is a big problem

319
00:14:15,139 --> 00:14:18,439
it depends if you class something like

320
00:14:16,789 --> 00:14:20,509
playing the lottery is gambling as well

321
00:14:18,439 --> 00:14:22,189
I guess which is a bit more different

322
00:14:20,509 --> 00:14:24,079
which I would agree with but i think

323
00:14:22,189 --> 00:14:25,189
these online casinos and things it

324
00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:27,289
sounds like they can cause a lot of

325
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:29,389
problems act some phones and everything

326
00:14:27,289 --> 00:14:31,399
it's too easy and it doesn't seem like

327
00:14:29,389 --> 00:14:34,369
real money i know one or two people have

328
00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:37,220
been involved in unlike a sea nose in it

329
00:14:34,369 --> 00:14:39,259
and starts off very well and they're all

330
00:14:37,220 --> 00:14:41,119
sudden they take a hit and lose a load

331
00:14:39,259 --> 00:14:43,159
of money so i think there's an unhealthy

332
00:14:41,119 --> 00:14:45,069
amount of advertising about gambling on

333
00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:46,320
the television I find it actually

334
00:14:45,069 --> 00:14:49,520
overwhelming

335
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:52,530
and I'm not someone who ever does gamble

336
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:56,280
I'm a neuroscientist and I understand

337
00:14:52,530 --> 00:14:58,410
the power of addiction and I think that

338
00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:01,170
the pushing pushing pushing that you see

339
00:14:58,410 --> 00:15:03,360
on television all of the time in peak

340
00:15:01,170 --> 00:15:06,180
hours of adult viewing is just too much

341
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,550
professor thanks for coming on board the

342
00:15:06,180 --> 00:15:09,750
Sputnik let's start with that

343
00:15:07,550 --> 00:15:12,030
sixty-four-thousand-dollar question how

344
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:14,670
did this happen why did this happen well

345
00:15:12,030 --> 00:15:16,110
it's a long story and I remember that

346
00:15:14,670 --> 00:15:17,970
time is worthy but that was how it was

347
00:15:16,110 --> 00:15:20,100
when I was was growing a bookies runner

348
00:15:17,970 --> 00:15:22,950
yeah young people no don't look is

349
00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:25,320
onerous well exactly and then it he

350
00:15:22,950 --> 00:15:27,480
changed in the 1960s because that was

351
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:30,990
when bookmakers shots became became

352
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:34,560
legal and there was a period there was a

353
00:15:30,990 --> 00:15:35,970
pier between the 1960s and probably when

354
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,350
the National Lottery started was

355
00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:39,420
actually much more significant than

356
00:15:37,350 --> 00:15:41,730
people than people realize cuz it opened

357
00:15:39,420 --> 00:15:43,320
the floodgates of other sorts of

358
00:15:41,730 --> 00:15:45,690
gambling as well but in that period

359
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,420
between the sixties and and the

360
00:15:45,690 --> 00:15:51,090
beginning of the 1990s was a period when

361
00:15:48,420 --> 00:15:53,070
gambling was tolerated and book his book

362
00:15:51,090 --> 00:15:54,960
as were made legal but it wasn't

363
00:15:53,070 --> 00:15:56,670
encouraged that was that was the crucial

364
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,870
you want allowed to advertisers you

365
00:15:56,670 --> 00:15:59,310
weren't allowed to advertise it and

366
00:15:57,870 --> 00:16:02,190
there was a very significant thing

367
00:15:59,310 --> 00:16:05,820
called the demand test so if you if you

368
00:16:02,190 --> 00:16:08,280
in your area you already had a bookies

369
00:16:05,820 --> 00:16:09,870
bookmakers shop and someone else wanted

370
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,240
to start another one so Vlad Brooks

371
00:16:09,870 --> 00:16:14,400
already had one and Paddy Power wanted

372
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:17,670
to start another one they had to

373
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:21,210
demonstrate to the to the council that

374
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:24,420
there was unmet need well now that all

375
00:16:21,210 --> 00:16:26,130
changed with the 2005 gambling act and

376
00:16:24,420 --> 00:16:29,010
this was the one that New Labour brought

377
00:16:26,130 --> 00:16:30,720
in and really looking back new labor I

378
00:16:29,010 --> 00:16:32,430
mean there are no Labour MPs who were

379
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,190
Allen time who apologized for this I

380
00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:38,130
mean they realized that they were very

381
00:16:34,190 --> 00:16:39,900
uncaring about what would happen to to

382
00:16:38,130 --> 00:16:41,700
gambling and society and how this would

383
00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:43,770
put people at risk because of gambling

384
00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:46,800
gambling problems but basically what

385
00:16:43,770 --> 00:16:49,440
they said is gambling is now to be

386
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,960
considered as an ordinary commodity it's

387
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,940
just like any other entertainment from

388
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,610
which furniture pay it's good business

389
00:16:53,940 --> 00:16:59,520
it's good business for Britain so one of

390
00:16:56,610 --> 00:17:00,060
the things they said was internet

391
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,010
gambling

392
00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:03,950
should we legalize Internet of course we

393
00:17:02,010 --> 00:17:06,240
should and I think that's had

394
00:17:03,950 --> 00:17:08,700
extraordinary effects I mean the things

395
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,110
that people realize that happened as if

396
00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:12,900
that is all the advertising and

397
00:17:10,110 --> 00:17:14,790
everybody and I talked to says you know

398
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,650
we're fed up we're being bombarded with

399
00:17:14,790 --> 00:17:19,620
with advertising and I think what's

400
00:17:16,650 --> 00:17:22,890
happened is is essentially two things

401
00:17:19,620 --> 00:17:25,650
one one is that the the 2005 Act gave a

402
00:17:22,890 --> 00:17:28,350
green light to the industry to innovate

403
00:17:25,650 --> 00:17:30,750
and my goodness haven't they haven't

404
00:17:28,350 --> 00:17:32,970
they innovated so and I think that to

405
00:17:30,750 --> 00:17:34,530
two particular things that have totally

406
00:17:32,970 --> 00:17:35,970
changed gambling I'm again me in those

407
00:17:34,530 --> 00:17:38,880
days that you were you were talking

408
00:17:35,970 --> 00:17:40,860
about though the book is Rama it was it

409
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,750
was principally betting on horses and

410
00:17:40,860 --> 00:17:44,910
there was dog racing in the stadia as

411
00:17:42,750 --> 00:17:46,620
well but some football pools and son but

412
00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:48,540
but what's happened there's two

413
00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:51,150
particular forms of gambling dominate

414
00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:53,010
now one is internet gambling which

415
00:17:51,150 --> 00:17:55,410
actually is still it's still a minority

416
00:17:53,010 --> 00:17:57,390
pursue but it's rising very very rapidly

417
00:17:55,410 --> 00:17:59,190
and the other thing at I think most

418
00:17:57,390 --> 00:18:02,420
people aren't aware of an S you're

419
00:17:59,190 --> 00:18:05,550
particularly interested is the the

420
00:18:02,420 --> 00:18:07,530
innovations technological innovations in

421
00:18:05,550 --> 00:18:09,240
gambling machines so you remember that

422
00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:11,250
you remember the gambling machines the

423
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,780
11 our ministry good all differ though

424
00:18:11,250 --> 00:18:14,670
the one up the one our bets not like

425
00:18:12,780 --> 00:18:17,070
that now play me their sophisticated man

426
00:18:14,670 --> 00:18:19,110
these are now 24 hours available on

427
00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:21,120
service state motorists ER physician yes

428
00:18:19,110 --> 00:18:22,590
might way sir so the zoe was run there

429
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:25,950
at eleven o'clock the restaurant is

430
00:18:22,590 --> 00:18:28,140
closed but you can go into i would pick

431
00:18:25,950 --> 00:18:32,460
up this 2005 gambling act i was there i

432
00:18:28,140 --> 00:18:34,760
paused it yes good the Labour Party of

433
00:18:32,460 --> 00:18:38,280
which I was for 36 years a member

434
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:43,680
founded more on Methodism than Marxism

435
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:47,060
with a strong moral code and so on in an

436
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:50,190
irony isn't that perhaps the biggest

437
00:18:47,060 --> 00:18:53,490
apostasy of them all that a Labour

438
00:18:50,190 --> 00:18:56,220
government turned Britain into a

439
00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:58,020
gambling free-for-all yes well I think

440
00:18:56,220 --> 00:19:00,240
it is and one of one of the things

441
00:18:58,020 --> 00:19:02,640
that's clearly happened in recent years

442
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,770
is that is that because the forms of

443
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,170
gambling have changed horse racing is

444
00:19:04,770 --> 00:19:09,420
still there but but now that the

445
00:19:07,170 --> 00:19:11,190
internet and and also the machines there

446
00:19:09,420 --> 00:19:12,660
these very very dangerous and you

447
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:15,210
means in book is I don't if you realize

448
00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:16,770
but now they're about 10 years or so ago

449
00:19:15,210 --> 00:19:18,630
they invented these machines they call

450
00:19:16,770 --> 00:19:19,650
fixed odds betting terminals and you

451
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:21,900
will have come across this because

452
00:19:19,650 --> 00:19:23,220
there's been the government been under a

453
00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:26,220
lot of pressure to do something about

454
00:19:23,220 --> 00:19:28,080
these they slipped in the industry said

455
00:19:26,220 --> 00:19:29,520
these aren't really gambling machines

456
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,590
they're completely different cuz you can

457
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,270
play roulette on it's not like that you

458
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:35,700
know lining up three you know three

459
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:37,590
lemons or cherries it's it's it's about

460
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:39,150
playing roulette and blackjack and so on

461
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:41,610
therefore they're not gambling machines

462
00:19:39,150 --> 00:19:43,320
therefore the maximum of two pounds

463
00:19:41,610 --> 00:19:45,300
which used to be one pals just recently

464
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,280
got two pounds the maximum two pals

465
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:48,990
shouldn't apply and you should be

466
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,450
allowed to bet a hundred pounds at a

467
00:19:48,990 --> 00:19:52,740
time and the we've got these machines in

468
00:19:51,450 --> 00:19:55,740
the bookmakers shots now they're causing

469
00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:58,200
enormous amount of trouble all the

470
00:19:55,740 --> 00:20:00,150
evidence from surveys and so on is that

471
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,520
they're appealing particularly to poorer

472
00:20:00,150 --> 00:20:05,760
people unemployed people particularly

473
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:07,920
they cluster in poorer areas the local

474
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,200
authorities can't do anything about it

475
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,420
because of this demand test and so if

476
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,430
they say that we've got three booking

477
00:20:12,420 --> 00:20:16,710
you know bookies already we don't want a

478
00:20:14,430 --> 00:20:19,110
fall hmm and the fourth comes the longer

479
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:21,900
than when they can't they can't do

480
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:25,560
anything that no I opposed one of the

481
00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:28,110
few to do so I opposed the introduction

482
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:30,780
of a national lottery yeah in fact on

483
00:20:28,110 --> 00:20:33,420
several of the clauses there was only me

484
00:20:30,780 --> 00:20:36,210
and the late Reverend Ian Paisley in the

485
00:20:33,420 --> 00:20:38,700
lobby and he said to me fancy me in a we

486
00:20:36,210 --> 00:20:40,680
paid like you being the only two members

487
00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:45,270
of the house to stand up against the

488
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:48,690
devil's buttermilk that's how the tide

489
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:51,930
was the tide was for gambling more

490
00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:54,240
gambling yes and of course then there

491
00:20:51,930 --> 00:20:57,630
was the scratch card which i described

492
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,910
as the crack cocaine yes of the National

493
00:20:57,630 --> 00:21:02,310
Lottery business the bluest people is

494
00:20:59,910 --> 00:21:07,110
spending the most money yet on the

495
00:21:02,310 --> 00:21:10,020
desperate hope of coming up trumps with

496
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:12,510
these cards it's grown and grown and

497
00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:17,090
grown would it be fair to say that

498
00:21:12,510 --> 00:21:20,130
there's no going back well I i think the

499
00:21:17,090 --> 00:21:23,100
22 views i kind of veer between one and

500
00:21:20,130 --> 00:21:24,419
the other i mean one is yet it's it's

501
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:27,690
very difficult once

502
00:21:24,419 --> 00:21:29,940
once so many people are dependent on on

503
00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:32,580
finances in the gambling industry and

504
00:21:29,940 --> 00:21:35,809
once the government have gone down that

505
00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:38,279
way every time they try and draw back

506
00:21:35,809 --> 00:21:40,109
from things for example if they wanted

507
00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:41,789
to there's a very good campaign called

508
00:21:40,109 --> 00:21:44,399
the Pharaoh gambling campaign we've been

509
00:21:41,789 --> 00:21:46,350
arguing and making a lot of noise let's

510
00:21:44,399 --> 00:21:48,059
reduce this maximum 100 pounds down to

511
00:21:46,350 --> 00:21:50,940
the two pounds which is normal rhythm

512
00:21:48,059 --> 00:21:52,889
other machines the government have said

513
00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:54,480
yes we should do something about it but

514
00:21:52,889 --> 00:21:56,190
they've dragged their feet over it

515
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,109
they've said oh we've got a research bit

516
00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:59,730
of research project here let's wait

517
00:21:58,109 --> 00:22:01,379
until we get the results the research

518
00:21:59,730 --> 00:22:02,970
happens to be financed by the gambling

519
00:22:01,379 --> 00:22:08,279
industry which is another thing don't

520
00:22:02,970 --> 00:22:11,460
get me no no no and so then once you've

521
00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:14,039
got things it's it's very difficult I

522
00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:16,320
think to pull back from the other on the

523
00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:17,489
other hand I sometimes via towards the

524
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,929
other point of view and you you've

525
00:22:17,489 --> 00:22:21,809
talked to the people in the street about

526
00:22:18,929 --> 00:22:23,309
this and weed in the national surveys a

527
00:22:21,809 --> 00:22:25,200
number of attitude questions were

528
00:22:23,309 --> 00:22:28,200
included and it is surprising that

529
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,299
actually most British people a much more

530
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,129
inclined towards a policy which is like

531
00:22:30,299 --> 00:22:33,809
that period between the six to the 60s

532
00:22:32,129 --> 00:22:35,609
and the 90s let's tolerate it we don't

533
00:22:33,809 --> 00:22:38,129
about it we don't want to prohibit it

534
00:22:35,609 --> 00:22:40,350
all together um but let's be very

535
00:22:38,129 --> 00:22:42,570
careful about it let's regulate it very

536
00:22:40,350 --> 00:22:45,529
carefully don't let's encourage it well

537
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:50,039
look professor you cannot advertise

538
00:22:45,529 --> 00:22:55,080
cigarettes on television in newspapers

539
00:22:50,039 --> 00:22:57,989
on buses you cannot know soon even by a

540
00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:01,109
cigarette packet with a with a logo on

541
00:22:57,989 --> 00:23:03,840
it plain paper wrapping how can it be

542
00:23:01,109 --> 00:23:07,859
that gambling which is actually far more

543
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:11,519
damaging to more people then smoking is

544
00:23:07,859 --> 00:23:14,549
is everywhere around us on every

545
00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:17,429
television station all night and every

546
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:19,919
other mediums Possible's surely we can

547
00:23:17,429 --> 00:23:22,799
get a campaign up that seeks to restrict

548
00:23:19,919 --> 00:23:25,320
the amount of advertising of this Devils

549
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:28,710
buttermilk yes I agree and the undie and

550
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:30,720
the costs the costs are very very

551
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:32,549
considerable but we think the evidence

552
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,169
the epidemiological evidence is that

553
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:35,730
amongst adults and that's not counting

554
00:23:34,169 --> 00:23:37,830
adolescents who are particularly

555
00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:38,370
vulnerable but amongst adults we think

556
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:40,530
is some

557
00:23:38,370 --> 00:23:42,690
between a quarter and a half a million

558
00:23:40,530 --> 00:23:46,440
people who actually have a gambling

559
00:23:42,690 --> 00:23:48,480
disorder in written and that is that's

560
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,309
very similar to the to the number of

561
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,740
people who've got drug illicit drug

562
00:23:50,309 --> 00:23:54,600
related offenses which is a tip of an

563
00:23:52,740 --> 00:23:57,150
iceberg it's just like that you're not

564
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,040
measuring the alcohol problem by the

565
00:23:57,150 --> 00:24:01,230
number of people who go to a meeting yes

566
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,760
there are millions more at family and

567
00:24:01,230 --> 00:24:04,830
Families it's you have a devastating

568
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,830
families and for n for communities and

569
00:24:04,830 --> 00:24:10,260
and and so professor we know we need to

570
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:12,090
leave it there alas but it's a

571
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:14,130
fascinating subject and we'll see if we

572
00:24:12,090 --> 00:24:16,620
can find a way i was gonna say there are

573
00:24:14,130 --> 00:24:19,320
some pains gambling what UK is my

574
00:24:16,620 --> 00:24:22,410
website gambling watch you only watch UK

575
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,790
which I really set up in order to try

576
00:24:22,410 --> 00:24:25,440
and get people to debate these issues

577
00:24:23,790 --> 00:24:27,990
yes cuz it's a it's a bit under the

578
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,360
radar Larry you share this just what I

579
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:33,000
wanted you here on the Sputnik to this

580
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:36,470
gambling watch UK yep I'll look it up

581
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,470
know right after the show

582
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,270
and now it's your turn to tell us what

583
00:24:39,140 --> 00:24:42,950
you think through the portals of social

584
00:24:41,270 --> 00:24:45,100
media what's rattling gayatri so

585
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:47,900
gambling is it harmless entertainment or

586
00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:49,970
dangerously destructive and s on the

587
00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:53,150
street the response online were the same

588
00:24:49,970 --> 00:24:55,760
Steve brindle says capitalism has no

589
00:24:53,150 --> 00:24:58,610
moral boundaries corporations daily

590
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:01,850
breaks civilized mores and I'll keep

591
00:24:58,610 --> 00:25:04,280
Muhammad says fact always remember what

592
00:25:01,850 --> 00:25:07,340
goes up must come down the pumping is

593
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,440
done the dumping is to come and Jack

594
00:25:07,340 --> 00:25:11,450
Beckett says for those making millions

595
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,030
I'm sure call it harmless entertainment

596
00:25:11,450 --> 00:25:16,850
for but for those left picking up the

597
00:25:14,030 --> 00:25:20,090
pieces it's dangerously destructive well

598
00:25:16,850 --> 00:25:22,760
as Mark said with capitalism all that a

599
00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:25,460
sacred will be profaned all that is

600
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,530
solid will melt into air and that's it

601
00:25:25,460 --> 00:25:29,210
for this week which alas means that's

602
00:25:27,530 --> 00:25:31,130
the end of the show you can stay in

603
00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:33,110
touch with us on twitter at RT

604
00:25:31,130 --> 00:25:35,480
underscore Sputnik and on facebook when

605
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:37,910
Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye for

606
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,960
me Gaia 30 I'm from me George Galloway

607
00:25:37,910 --> 00:25:40,960
it's been marvelous

608
00:25:48,269 --> 00:25:50,330
you