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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gayatri

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30 years ago the Battle of our grief

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took place in South Yorkshire in

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England's green and pleasant land it was

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not a war though it looked and felt like

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one instead it represented the

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abandonment by the British state of

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social peace the militarization of the

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police in a trades dispute and the

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dereliction of journalistic duty by the

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broadcast media with which we have sadly

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become all too familiar the police

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attacked the miners the footage however

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was reversed to show the opposite heads

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and hearts were broken society was split

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down the middle something in Britain

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died that day the miners were defeated

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and a slow descent of working-class

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power to resist begin result is all

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around us the minors including those

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bludgeon that or grief have never

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received justice the now discredited

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leadership of the South Yorkshire

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Constabulary has never been held to

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account but the campaign continues and

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for the miners of our grief that

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campaign is led by Barbara Jackson of

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the or grief truth and justice campaign

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she joins us now thanks for doing so

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Barbara just tell the viewers because it

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was 30 years ago what happened at or

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grief specifically the 18th of june

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nineteen eighty-four was when there was

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a mass picket of the old grieve coking

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plant 10,000 miners were there with

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5,000 police and the police were there

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in riot gear with dogs and horses them

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it was a lovely summer's day the miners

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were in trainers jeans and t-shirts and

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at the end of that day 95 miners had

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been arrested and charged with riot and

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unlawful assembly charges that at the

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time carried a life sentence and many

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broken heads also and many many broken

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heads in fact some people didn't go to

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the hospital because they knew the

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police would follow them there and try

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to arrest them and when Gareth pierced

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the solicitor at the time came up to in

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to view the men in the cells she was

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horrified by what she found she said

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that the needed doctors and nurses not a

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solicitor and the police's duty of care

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to people who are arrested and

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completely in every way broken down that

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day of course it had been a slow burn

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the police were increasingly militarized

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throughout the dispute police forces

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were switched around so that local

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police were not policing local

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situations which was a new thing the

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police were acting as a national force

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for the first time people were stopped

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in buses on their way to pick it in

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different coalfields turn back again a

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new thing but somehow our grief felt

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like a bit of a turning point at least

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do me did it do you I don't know whether

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it felt like a turning point but it's

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that part of the strike that most people

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remember you don't have to go into great

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detail most people are familiar with the

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name of all grieve but we're quite clear

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as the campaign that there were many or

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grieves going on all around the coal

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fields during that strike but all grief

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was the big set piece with mass numbers

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of pickets and mass numbers of police

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and the resulting of the media

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information that day showing the police

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the miners charging not the police

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charging set the tone for how that day a

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tour group was received by the general

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public it was the case of who gets their

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version out first tends to be believed

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there are horses of course yeah yeah it

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was really a cavalry charge it was a

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cavalry charge and like one of the

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miners said at the time if you've got a

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40 ton horse charging towards you you

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don't stop to ask what this is all about

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and most of the injuries that the miners

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received where to the back of the head

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the back and the shoulders because they

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were just running away they didn't know

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what was happening and the 90

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five who were picked up and arrested

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were people who were just there not

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doing anything of any consequence there

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weren't officials in the end um they

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held in the main no branch you know

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authority a little level they were just

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people who were easy targets pictou

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confused and easy for the police to deal

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with do you recall what the media

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treatment of the Orgreave battle was

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like it was quite shocking one of the

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miners who were there it was there that

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day when he got home his parents had

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already seen the footage and his mother

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said to an lad what on earth have you

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been doing out there even she from a

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mining family and a mining background

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accepted the bbc's footage that day that

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showed the miners charging and not the

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police and that set the tone for the

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rest of the media to follow as the

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accepted truth of that day and it was

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years and years later that the BBC

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finally apologized or gave some sort of

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apology and put it down to a technical

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issue that they were using some new film

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and quite a low level technician didn't

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really know what he was doing with that

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film but the media you're a band bling

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we believe it if you like a violin but

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the media jus as the dispute settled

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down into its longevity and intensity

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the media gradually gradually shifted to

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accepting the government's version of

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what was happening and the media played

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a quite shocking and disgraceful role

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especially in the return to work

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scenario where they just accepted the

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Coal Board figures about the number of

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men who'd return to work and entered

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into a description of it's a drip it's a

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trickle it's a torrent it's a rush and

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really really played you know on that

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sort of imagery and virtually did the

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government's job the leadership of the

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South Yorkshire police

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has since been comprehensively

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discredited not for this but for other

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crimes and misdemeanors how much of a

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role do you think they played in this or

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was this just the zeitgeist the time had

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come to attack a huge body of the

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British working class well the time had

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come to attack a major trade union it

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was already there in they Ridley plan

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that was out like Nicholas Ridley the

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thatcherite Trade Minister Industry

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Minister yeah back in the seventies he

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laid a list of things out there a tory

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government should try to achieve when

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they came to power and taking on a major

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trade union was one of them but what the

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country didn't allow for was that the

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police horses all over the country would

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come together almost as the national

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police force run out of the national

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reporting century New Scotland Yard and

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guided through that year of the strike

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by different chief constables and the

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police had got a reciprocal arrangement

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to exchange PSU you units police support

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units if one police was needed help

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eunuchs were brought in and exchanged

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and in general it doesn't appear that

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the south yorkshire police were there or

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grieve if you look at the police

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statements from the time it was police

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from Bedford sure and merseyside and

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Manchester that were largely arresting

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people that day the south yorkshire

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police seemed to be completely out of

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the picture and we feel that that was

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the decision taken with foresight that

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the south yorkshire police would have to

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police those communities in the future

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when the strike was over so they were

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deliberately held back or grieve and

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didn't appear to take part in it last

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year nearly 30 years on Ed Miliband the

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Labour leader calls for an official

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inquiry how has that received by your

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campaign and moreover the communities

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it's been received a fairly positive

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late but with hesitations I mean I

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shared a public platform at Hatfield

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mean no pic club in doncaster last me

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with EDD Miliband and at that private

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meeting he made a commitment to an

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investigation into the injustice of all

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grieve and he then reiterated that on

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local TV so it became a public

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commitment but an investigation can mean

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anything that you want it to mean we as

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the campaign want a full public inquiry

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looking at the policing of the whole

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strike and the political interference by

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the tory government of the day but that

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gives us a start if we get a Labour

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government in May to put pressure on

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that commitment to an investigation to

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become a reality and it means that we as

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campaign can play a part in that because

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who's going to lead an investigation

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what their de terms of reference going

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to be and we would want to pay a part in

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Europe you late in that yeah last year

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for the show we Vox popped people going

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in and out of the tu SI headquarters in

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London in great Russell Street that was

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until a security man was sent out to

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tell us to go away and an official of

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educ said and I quote the minor strike

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has nothing to do with us and of course

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that's the problem isn't it because the

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miners were defeated because a

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working-class movement that ought to

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have known that they would be next did

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not come to their side when it counted

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how do you feel about that now after all

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these years well we still feel and

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bitter that the tu SI and other major

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unions weren't able to deliver

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industrial muscle to help us during that

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strike and I'm quite shocked to hear

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what you've just said about the magma

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sure

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yes in anything to do with us because

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the there has always been some people

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who wanted to disown the strike during

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the strike and afterwards they feel

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embarrassed by what took place in the

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strike and the outcome of the strike and

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there's always been this thing in unions

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about do we go for collective action or

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do we keep quiet and just be a service

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union so a lot of those conflicts played

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themselves out well you must all hang

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together or you surely will hang

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separately together Yarbrough jackson of

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the or grief truth and justice campaign

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the very best of luck thank the next

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stage yeah the battle thank you coming

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up after the break another hero of the

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British Mineworkers but this time

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speaking about all things Russian

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associate editor of The Guardian Sheamus

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mill we'll be right back

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you

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welcome back to Sputnik bombers in the

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channel warships off the coast Britain's

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front line being redrawn in Latvia if

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you believe the British media and some

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government ministers it is only a matter

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of time before the Red Army complete

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with snow on their boots turn up on a

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high street near you how hot is the new

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cold war going to get that is the

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question helping us answer it is the

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Guardians associate editor Sheamus Milne

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Sheamus thanks for joining us NATO are

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not very happy with you for pointing out

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a contrary view to this dominant

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narrative which we now have in this

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country which seems to be reaching

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almost hysterical levels that the

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Russians are coming I think in the last

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few weeks and months it has reached a

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00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:42,590
fever pitch I mean we've got the level

276
00:13:40,070 --> 00:13:44,510
of media coverage now of this crisis in

277
00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:46,880
the Ukraine and Russia's role in it and

278
00:13:44,510 --> 00:13:49,600
Russia's role in Europe and Putin in

279
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:52,760
particular has become hysterical and

280
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:55,040
completely unrelated to reality and I

281
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,260
think it is quite dangerous I think you

282
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,510
they're whipping up a kind of war fever

283
00:13:57,260 --> 00:14:01,400
and preparing people for a level of

284
00:13:59,510 --> 00:14:02,600
intervention that you know British

285
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,310
people people in this part of the world

286
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,840
in Western Europe are actually not

287
00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:08,360
committed to at all nor in the United

288
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:11,180
States they're trying to lay the ground

289
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:13,570
for a level of of action in relation to

290
00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:16,370
Russia and the Ukraine that I think is a

291
00:14:13,570 --> 00:14:17,990
unjustified and be not at all supported

292
00:14:16,370 --> 00:14:20,450
by public opinion but these things have

293
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:23,420
the momentum of their own and you know

294
00:14:20,450 --> 00:14:26,450
the last few weeks we've seen decisions

295
00:14:23,420 --> 00:14:27,800
to send American and British troops and

296
00:14:26,450 --> 00:14:30,920
relatively small numbers we're talking

297
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,570
hundreds but still troops to Ukraine

298
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:36,020
which is the front line which is not a

299
00:14:32,570 --> 00:14:39,050
member of NATO to a own where there is

300
00:14:36,020 --> 00:14:42,230
conflict in which there's a civil war

301
00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:44,600
going on which Russia is supporting one

302
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:46,730
side in that war and the United States

303
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,840
Britain France and the other NATO powers

304
00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:49,880
are supporting the other side a

305
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,200
government that came to power in an

306
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,150
illegal overthrow of an elected

307
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,710
government and this is a dangerous

308
00:14:53,150 --> 00:14:57,410
situation which can spin out of control

309
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:59,089
so I think it's necessary for us in this

310
00:14:57,410 --> 00:15:01,009
part of the world to be

311
00:14:59,089 --> 00:15:03,529
actually much tougher with our own

312
00:15:01,009 --> 00:15:05,569
governments and our own military and our

313
00:15:03,529 --> 00:15:07,009
own media about the stories they're

314
00:15:05,569 --> 00:15:08,990
telling about this situation because

315
00:15:07,009 --> 00:15:11,839
it's something that can lead to disaster

316
00:15:08,990 --> 00:15:14,449
well 100 years ago it did we got into

317
00:15:11,839 --> 00:15:16,249
the First World War because if we didn't

318
00:15:14,449 --> 00:15:19,420
do this now we wouldn't be able to do it

319
00:15:16,249 --> 00:15:22,449
later and one it was like a train really

320
00:15:19,420 --> 00:15:25,699
the the war or card because of

321
00:15:22,449 --> 00:15:27,889
timetables railway timetables I spoke

322
00:15:25,699 --> 00:15:30,920
yesterday in Parliament to Colonel Bob

323
00:15:27,889 --> 00:15:34,370
Stewart former British military

324
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:36,110
commander now a member of parliament and

325
00:15:34,370 --> 00:15:37,999
I pointed out to him the rather obvious

326
00:15:36,110 --> 00:15:40,939
point ought to be obvious to him more

327
00:15:37,999 --> 00:15:43,699
than anyone that this confrontation with

328
00:15:40,939 --> 00:15:46,309
Russia is well a trifle dangerous

329
00:15:43,699 --> 00:15:49,759
because if it gets hot that the shooting

330
00:15:46,309 --> 00:15:52,459
starts this is not Yugoslavia you're

331
00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:56,089
talking about neither is it Iraq Russia

332
00:15:52,459 --> 00:15:58,639
is a nuclear-armed superpower in which

333
00:15:56,089 --> 00:16:01,100
the vast majority of the people in the

334
00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:03,860
state are behind the government in the

335
00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:06,709
stand that they are taking is it really

336
00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:09,139
dangerous can it turn hot I don't think

337
00:16:06,709 --> 00:16:11,929
it's the intention of either the Western

338
00:16:09,139 --> 00:16:13,519
powers nor the Russian government for

339
00:16:11,929 --> 00:16:16,040
that to happen I don't think the West

340
00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:19,009
intends to fight in Ukraine although

341
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,569
it's clearly drawn the line in the NATO

342
00:16:19,009 --> 00:16:21,860
states that it's set up in the former

343
00:16:20,569 --> 00:16:24,139
Soviet Union particularly the Baltic

344
00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:25,970
States but as with as we're talking

345
00:16:24,139 --> 00:16:27,499
about the you know these things have

346
00:16:25,970 --> 00:16:29,870
their own logic and they can lead to

347
00:16:27,499 --> 00:16:32,300
their own forms of escalation if for

348
00:16:29,870 --> 00:16:34,939
example as there is incredibly strong

349
00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:37,220
pressure in the u.s. from both main

350
00:16:34,939 --> 00:16:39,649
parties Republicans and Democrats to arm

351
00:16:37,220 --> 00:16:42,230
the Ukrainian government which has been

352
00:16:39,649 --> 00:16:45,019
resisted up to this point by France and

353
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:47,420
Germany in particular if that takes

354
00:16:45,019 --> 00:16:49,879
place and they send heavy weapons to the

355
00:16:47,420 --> 00:16:52,790
Ukrainian forces by the way which

356
00:16:49,879 --> 00:16:54,829
include fascist militias fighting on the

357
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:56,949
front line in eastern Ukraine with names

358
00:16:54,829 --> 00:16:59,600
like the Azov battalion where they have

359
00:16:56,949 --> 00:17:02,029
swastika like symbols on their arms and

360
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,860
belief in racial superiority and white

361
00:17:02,029 --> 00:17:05,600
supremacy these are some of the forces

362
00:17:03,860 --> 00:17:06,980
that we're talking about arming and

363
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,199
supporting that the West is supporting

364
00:17:06,980 --> 00:17:11,179
the moment if that happens and the

365
00:17:09,199 --> 00:17:12,419
Russians then increase the level of

366
00:17:11,179 --> 00:17:14,549
supplies

367
00:17:12,419 --> 00:17:17,009
with heavier weapons to the rebel camp

368
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:18,720
in eastern Ukraine you know the

369
00:17:17,009 --> 00:17:20,819
potential for that conflict spinning out

370
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,799
of control is very serious and in fact

371
00:17:20,819 --> 00:17:24,809
you know we've had British generals you

372
00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:26,309
know like the former British

373
00:17:24,809 --> 00:17:28,259
representative at NATO who's been

374
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:29,789
speaking out in last week saying just

375
00:17:28,259 --> 00:17:32,820
this that the potential for what he

376
00:17:29,789 --> 00:17:34,799
called total war is there and his

377
00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:36,119
argument is you know that the British

378
00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:37,919
government NATO has take this more

379
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,480
seriously that military spending must be

380
00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:43,109
increased a lot of people are using this

381
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:45,570
conflict as a way to try and protect the

382
00:17:43,109 --> 00:17:50,580
Army and the armed forces from cuts and

383
00:17:45,570 --> 00:17:52,320
to you know spend more on weapons but

384
00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:53,940
you know even if people like that

385
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,919
themselves are saying it I think we

386
00:17:53,940 --> 00:17:57,720
should take it seriously and wind down

387
00:17:55,919 --> 00:17:59,340
the config and raise the pressure in

388
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,950
this country and other parts of the

389
00:17:59,340 --> 00:18:04,049
world to wind down this conflict to

390
00:18:01,950 --> 00:18:05,749
de-escalate the conflict we've gotta at

391
00:18:04,049 --> 00:18:07,950
the moment we've there's a ceasefire in

392
00:18:05,749 --> 00:18:09,179
eastern Ukraine which is more or less

393
00:18:07,950 --> 00:18:10,590
holding and then some of the heavy

394
00:18:09,179 --> 00:18:13,049
weapons have been pulled back from the

395
00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:15,200
front line as a result of this so-called

396
00:18:13,049 --> 00:18:19,200
Minsk agreement that was signed last

397
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:21,509
month but the sending of troops by

398
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,639
Britain and America to Ukraine to Kiev

399
00:18:21,509 --> 00:18:25,289
actually explicitly breaks that

400
00:18:23,639 --> 00:18:27,359
agreement that was signed the ceasefire

401
00:18:25,289 --> 00:18:29,399
agreement with article 10 in that

402
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,590
ceasefire agreement the Minsk agreement

403
00:18:29,399 --> 00:18:33,809
stipulates withdrawal of all foreign

404
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:35,399
forces from Ukraine and that is being

405
00:18:33,809 --> 00:18:37,950
breached by our own government by the

406
00:18:35,399 --> 00:18:40,529
United States government directly but

407
00:18:37,950 --> 00:18:42,149
you know that agreement is likely to

408
00:18:40,529 --> 00:18:44,009
break down again because it doesn't deal

409
00:18:42,149 --> 00:18:45,779
with the underlying lying causes and

410
00:18:44,009 --> 00:18:47,580
we're likely to see a new escalation in

411
00:18:45,779 --> 00:18:49,320
the months to come so we need to be

412
00:18:47,580 --> 00:18:51,419
promoting I think quite seriously and

413
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,159
pressing for an alternative and an end

414
00:18:51,419 --> 00:18:55,559
to this ludicrous anti Russian

415
00:18:53,159 --> 00:18:56,999
propaganda which is blinding two people

416
00:18:55,559 --> 00:18:59,220
to the reality of what's going on and

417
00:18:56,999 --> 00:19:01,080
making a genuine debate and dialogue

418
00:18:59,220 --> 00:19:03,119
about what's taking place impossible

419
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,739
because anything that contradicts the

420
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,019
NATO line and the Western line which

421
00:19:04,739 --> 00:19:09,109
overwhelmingly dominates the Western

422
00:19:07,019 --> 00:19:12,299
media is immediately dismissed as

423
00:19:09,109 --> 00:19:14,489
Kremlin propaganda whatever the truth of

424
00:19:12,299 --> 00:19:16,769
it James Joyce's mentioned that the

425
00:19:14,489 --> 00:19:19,019
people of Russia support the leader in

426
00:19:16,769 --> 00:19:21,629
the current state of affairs it's at the

427
00:19:19,019 --> 00:19:25,710
case though how is the sphere in Russia

428
00:19:21,629 --> 00:19:26,460
post the murder of the opposition leader

429
00:19:25,710 --> 00:19:28,440
support

430
00:19:26,460 --> 00:19:33,540
it can mean different things I mean

431
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:34,830
Putin is a authoritarian conservative in

432
00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:36,000
many ways and lots of people in Russia

433
00:19:34,830 --> 00:19:37,920
as well ofcourse in the rest of the

434
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,480
world that don't buy into that at all

435
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:45,120
but in terms of his defending Russia's

436
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:47,400
security and standing up against

437
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:49,290
American domination and NATO

438
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,630
expansionism throughout Europe and

439
00:19:49,290 --> 00:19:53,520
beyond of course he has the overwhelming

440
00:19:51,630 --> 00:19:55,140
support of the Russian people and of

441
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,850
course the sympathy of people throughout

442
00:19:55,140 --> 00:20:00,240
the world who want to see a more

443
00:19:56,850 --> 00:20:02,670
balanced global order yeah now actually

444
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:05,250
in terms of what the stance that he's

445
00:20:02,670 --> 00:20:07,050
taken in relation to the Ukraine you

446
00:20:05,250 --> 00:20:09,000
know Putin is in many ways a sort of

447
00:20:07,050 --> 00:20:10,440
centrist figure balancing the factions

448
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,360
on different sides and the pressures on

449
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,650
different sides the majority of people

450
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:14,760
in Russia I think not just from opinion

451
00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:17,010
polls but from all sorts of other

452
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,860
evidence in many cases would would like

453
00:20:17,010 --> 00:20:20,970
a tougher position faint stronger

454
00:20:19,860 --> 00:20:23,460
support and of course the rebels

455
00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:25,020
themselves in eastern Ukraine many of

456
00:20:23,460 --> 00:20:27,450
them believe that Russia is not offering

457
00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:29,970
nearly enough support but I think that

458
00:20:27,450 --> 00:20:32,370
just reflects the fact that Russia has

459
00:20:29,970 --> 00:20:35,040
been pushed back and back and back in

460
00:20:32,370 --> 00:20:36,690
the past 25 years 20 years since they

461
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,310
all end of the Cold War that commitments

462
00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:40,440
that were made and they were made of

463
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:42,360
their records in the American archives

464
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,490
show that that NATO would not be

465
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:46,470
expanded to the east were broken and

466
00:20:44,490 --> 00:20:48,000
later was pushed right up against the

467
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:50,940
Russian border into the former Soviet

468
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:53,190
Union and in the end you know Putin has

469
00:20:50,940 --> 00:20:56,280
drawn a line on that and he drew it

470
00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:58,200
first in Georgia in 2008 and again in

471
00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,270
this conflict in Ukraine where the West

472
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,310
intervened to support the overthrow the

473
00:21:00,270 --> 00:21:04,800
anti-constitutional overthrow of the

474
00:21:02,310 --> 00:21:06,600
elected government a year ago which

475
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,730
created this crisis and triggered the

476
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,070
rebellion in the in the east of the

477
00:21:08,730 --> 00:21:13,260
country and that's something which

478
00:21:11,070 --> 00:21:15,450
clearly has the support of the majority

479
00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:17,970
people in Russia and of course many

480
00:21:15,450 --> 00:21:21,560
people in the Ukraine this joker from

481
00:21:17,970 --> 00:21:24,080
NATO I debated him in the hay on wye

482
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,610
festival the how the light gets in

483
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:29,910
festival and he had only days before

484
00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:33,540
beam Britain's representative on the

485
00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:36,540
NATO military command and he explicitly

486
00:21:33,540 --> 00:21:38,970
said that British people have to get

487
00:21:36,540 --> 00:21:39,670
used to the fact that their sons may

488
00:21:38,970 --> 00:21:42,990
have to

489
00:21:39,670 --> 00:21:45,880
died in Latvia because that is now our

490
00:21:42,990 --> 00:21:47,740
frontline the audience was quite

491
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:51,370
startled most of whom couldn't have

492
00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:54,730
placed Latvia anywhere on the map and

493
00:21:51,370 --> 00:21:58,240
yet in a way Britain is sleepwalking

494
00:21:54,730 --> 00:22:00,430
into this position shouldn't we should

495
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:04,030
we start at no war with Russia campaign

496
00:22:00,430 --> 00:22:06,490
or stop the war coalition really take on

497
00:22:04,030 --> 00:22:10,360
this subject otherwise we might end up

498
00:22:06,490 --> 00:22:11,350
in the water the mother of all wars yeah

499
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:14,470
I mean it's a very dangerous situation

500
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:17,800
the Baltic states were incorporated into

501
00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:19,450
NATO and now it's said by defenders of

502
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,180
NATO and NATO itself that they had every

503
00:22:19,450 --> 00:22:23,860
right to join whichever Alliance they

504
00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:26,800
wish to which of course that the

505
00:22:23,860 --> 00:22:28,330
technical level is true but that that

506
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,010
alliance doesn't have to accept them as

507
00:22:28,330 --> 00:22:32,020
members and it has impact on other

508
00:22:30,010 --> 00:22:33,550
states in the in the region of woods of

509
00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:36,520
what of the Republic of Ireland had

510
00:22:33,550 --> 00:22:38,290
joined the Warsaw Pact exist I think

511
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:41,410
you're right and so what's really needed

512
00:22:38,290 --> 00:22:43,000
in Europe is an overarching security

513
00:22:41,410 --> 00:22:45,550
system that includes everybody including

514
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,040
Russia that doesn't exclude actually the

515
00:22:45,550 --> 00:22:50,620
biggest country in Europe Creek creates

516
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,500
a genuine security system for everybody

517
00:22:50,620 --> 00:22:54,430
and winds down these conflict

518
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:56,110
confrontations rather than winding them

519
00:22:54,430 --> 00:22:57,610
up we don't want to be in a

520
00:22:56,110 --> 00:22:59,110
confrontation with Russia over the

521
00:22:57,610 --> 00:23:01,750
Baltic States and there's no need for

522
00:22:59,110 --> 00:23:04,450
that whatever it is NATO's existence

523
00:23:01,750 --> 00:23:07,810
which is creating these conflict and its

524
00:23:04,450 --> 00:23:09,130
and its expansion to the east so I think

525
00:23:07,810 --> 00:23:10,750
we need to ring the bell on this and

526
00:23:09,130 --> 00:23:12,670
sound the alarm because it is running

527
00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:14,710
out of control and it can go somewhere

528
00:23:12,670 --> 00:23:16,570
which nobody wants on either side of

529
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:18,550
this confrontation very briefly then

530
00:23:16,570 --> 00:23:20,620
watch all about Russia is not a

531
00:23:18,550 --> 00:23:25,930
communist country Putin is not a

532
00:23:20,620 --> 00:23:30,460
communist Russia is a capitalist economy

533
00:23:25,930 --> 00:23:32,350
like all others in in Europe what's the

534
00:23:30,460 --> 00:23:34,990
real reason behind this belligerence

535
00:23:32,350 --> 00:23:37,980
towards Russia towards Putin well I

536
00:23:34,990 --> 00:23:40,360
think it does go does come down to this

537
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:43,390
drive by the United States and its

538
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:47,010
allies to use the collapse or so Union

539
00:23:43,390 --> 00:23:49,990
to take control of the continent to

540
00:23:47,010 --> 00:23:52,330
ensure that American power is embedded

541
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:52,990
into the European system indefinitely

542
00:23:52,330 --> 00:23:54,760
and that was some

543
00:23:52,990 --> 00:23:56,530
thing that was specifically laid out by

544
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,150
the United States government in the

545
00:23:56,530 --> 00:24:00,280
aftermath of the collapse of Soviet we

546
00:23:58,150 --> 00:24:02,290
got the documents showing that and it's

547
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,330
also in the case of Ukraine it's been a

548
00:24:02,290 --> 00:24:07,360
prize as the Americans have said for

549
00:24:04,330 --> 00:24:10,570
decades to effectively get control of

550
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:11,860
Ukraine because Ukraine is economically

551
00:24:10,570 --> 00:24:13,240
all there to basket case at the moment

552
00:24:11,860 --> 00:24:16,480
it has huge economic potential and

553
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:19,990
always has had and allied with Russia or

554
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,670
you know part of a wider block including

555
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:23,290
Russia gives Russia more strength than

556
00:24:21,670 --> 00:24:26,230
the United States and its allies want to

557
00:24:23,290 --> 00:24:29,500
see it have in the end this is about the

558
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:31,480
attempt to maintain a unipolar world or

559
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:33,220
an American and Western dominated order

560
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,010
which has broken down in the last few

561
00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:37,090
years and that's what's created I think

562
00:24:35,010 --> 00:24:38,770
some of this conflict but from the point

563
00:24:37,090 --> 00:24:40,330
of view of most people in the world they

564
00:24:38,770 --> 00:24:42,790
want to see a multipolar order they

565
00:24:40,330 --> 00:24:44,980
don't want to see a global system

566
00:24:42,790 --> 00:24:47,590
dominated by one power and its allies

567
00:24:44,980 --> 00:24:49,179
which overwhelmingly dominates the world

568
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:51,580
militarily and that's something we're

569
00:24:49,179 --> 00:24:56,830
seeing played out in these conflicts so

570
00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:58,210
much man thank God for you I know it's

571
00:24:56,830 --> 00:25:00,280
your turn to tell us what you think

572
00:24:58,210 --> 00:25:02,950
through the portals of social media

573
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,830
what's rattling gayatri I asked what's

574
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:09,160
next for Russia's opposition love truth

575
00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:11,559
says the US will try to force many coups

576
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:15,010
by paying communist and far-right

577
00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:19,120
nationalist well dont la might happen on

578
00:25:15,010 --> 00:25:21,610
the miners and lots of response on that

579
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:25,780
shows you that it really still is all we

580
00:25:21,610 --> 00:25:27,640
still vivid again David Taylor says why

581
00:25:25,780 --> 00:25:29,830
did they lose because not enough of the

582
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,050
working class supported them and divided

583
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:34,270
before well that sums up couldn't put it

584
00:25:32,050 --> 00:25:36,070
better than that well that's all of you

585
00:25:34,270 --> 00:25:38,320
cut out for this week which alas means

586
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:40,840
that's the end of the show stay in touch

587
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,520
with us on twitter RT underscores put

588
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,559
Nick in on facebook you can like us and

589
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,450
Sputnik on Russia today goodbye from me

590
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:49,500
Gayathri I'm from me George Galloway

591
00:25:46,450 --> 00:25:49,500
it's been marvelous