1 00:00:32,170 --> 00:00:37,760 welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 2 00:00:34,730 --> 00:00:40,129 with me George Galloway and me gayathri 3 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,559 the United States is in crisis this 4 00:00:40,129 --> 00:00:45,620 weekend after the latest in a long line 5 00:00:42,559 --> 00:00:47,330 of gun crimes racial hatred and the 6 00:00:45,620 --> 00:00:50,750 consequences of slavery and segregation 7 00:00:47,330 --> 00:00:53,570 on which the US was built the mass 8 00:00:50,750 --> 00:00:56,350 murder of black Christians in Charleston 9 00:00:53,570 --> 00:00:59,600 South Carolina once upon a time the 10 00:00:56,350 --> 00:01:01,540 Satanic center of the mass slavery of 11 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,339 Africans bought and sold like cattle 12 00:01:01,540 --> 00:01:07,700 niet trigger in this long hot summer 13 00:01:04,339 --> 00:01:09,890 some cataclysmic events like those of 14 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:12,350 the 1960s in the wake of the 15 00:01:09,890 --> 00:01:14,479 assassinations of President Kennedy his 16 00:01:12,350 --> 00:01:17,390 brother Robert Malcolm X and the 17 00:01:14,479 --> 00:01:20,150 Reverend Martin Luther King but if they 18 00:01:17,390 --> 00:01:22,159 don't it's just a matter of time son of 19 00:01:20,150 --> 00:01:24,440 a week goes by when a black man is not 20 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:27,170 murdered or grievously assaulted by a 21 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:29,690 white police officer was usually clear 22 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:32,450 of any blame by an all-white tribunal 23 00:01:29,690 --> 00:01:35,090 meanwhile 24 00:01:32,450 --> 00:01:37,159 against take form though whether mrs. 25 00:01:35,090 --> 00:01:39,469 Hillary Clinton can accurately be 26 00:01:37,159 --> 00:01:42,950 described as a new generation at the age 27 00:01:39,469 --> 00:01:44,840 of 67 must be debatable but she seems 28 00:01:42,950 --> 00:01:48,289 certain to be the Democratic Party 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:50,000 nominee to succeed President Obama and 30 00:01:48,289 --> 00:01:53,000 what you know the Republican is likely 31 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:55,039 to be Jeb Bush son of one President Bush 32 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,450 brother of another cracky I knew they 33 00:01:55,039 --> 00:01:59,210 were close to the Saudis but this is 34 00:01:56,450 --> 00:02:02,450 real dynasty joining us now to discuss 35 00:01:59,210 --> 00:02:05,659 the American imbroglio his artis own 36 00:02:02,450 --> 00:02:08,830 stacy herbert Stacy welcome to the 37 00:02:05,659 --> 00:02:15,760 Sputnik let's start with the disastrous 38 00:02:08,830 --> 00:02:18,980 crime in South Carolina this young man 39 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:22,040 modern a lot of people is this going to 40 00:02:18,980 --> 00:02:24,890 be get still more mothers is America on 41 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:27,829 the brink of some kind of race war well 42 00:02:24,890 --> 00:02:29,360 just after it a few hours later there 43 00:02:27,829 --> 00:02:31,489 was another shooting at a Memphis 44 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,739 Tennessee Church there was at a black 45 00:02:31,489 --> 00:02:36,680 church the shooting toward it nobody was 46 00:02:33,739 --> 00:02:38,030 killed but there is a lot of tension I 47 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,680 think it's going on the same matter how 48 00:02:38,030 --> 00:02:44,090 you were talking about Clinton and Bush 49 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:46,160 two dynasties in America look like they 50 00:02:44,090 --> 00:02:48,650 could possibly be the two candidates for 51 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:52,370 Republican and Democrat in America think 52 00:02:48,650 --> 00:02:55,600 America's transitioning from an empire 53 00:02:52,370 --> 00:02:57,470 into whatever comes next they had that 54 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,630 exorbitant privilege of the dollar 55 00:02:57,470 --> 00:03:01,970 they're losing that privilege and in 56 00:02:59,630 --> 00:03:04,430 America there they're also losing the 57 00:03:01,970 --> 00:03:06,230 white privilege so Americans who are 58 00:03:04,430 --> 00:03:10,100 white have had a privilege in our 59 00:03:06,230 --> 00:03:12,230 society until last year when the the new 60 00:03:10,100 --> 00:03:13,549 generation coming into the schools you 61 00:03:12,230 --> 00:03:14,930 know it was less than fifty percent of 62 00:03:13,549 --> 00:03:19,099 them are white so I think there's a lot 63 00:03:14,930 --> 00:03:20,959 of tension psychologically in the 64 00:03:19,099 --> 00:03:22,880 population they're no longer an empire 65 00:03:20,959 --> 00:03:25,069 when they were an empire by the way as 66 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:29,000 they were building our empire in America 67 00:03:25,069 --> 00:03:31,579 we refused to admit it we we pretended 68 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,109 we were an upstart you know democratic 69 00:03:31,579 --> 00:03:34,519 nation and we would never become 70 00:03:33,109 --> 00:03:36,079 Imperial like the Brits that we 71 00:03:34,519 --> 00:03:38,299 separated from but now that we're losing 72 00:03:36,079 --> 00:03:40,040 it we're become a very imperial openly 73 00:03:38,299 --> 00:03:42,530 Imperial in terms of our behavior as 74 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,750 we're losing it so we're trans Imperial 75 00:03:42,530 --> 00:03:45,230 you can call us we want to be like an 76 00:03:44,750 --> 00:03:46,940 empire 77 00:03:45,230 --> 00:03:49,159 we've already lost it where that's over 78 00:03:46,940 --> 00:03:51,560 where's this going to go I'm you know 79 00:03:49,159 --> 00:03:54,159 given the prevalence of powerful 80 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:58,450 automatic weapons in the United States 81 00:03:54,159 --> 00:04:01,159 any conflict built around racial lines 82 00:03:58,450 --> 00:04:04,040 has the I mean could be talking about a 83 00:04:01,159 --> 00:04:06,049 new civil war well that's one of the 84 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,090 reasons also why the American police 85 00:04:06,049 --> 00:04:10,459 force is so deadly I mean if you look at 86 00:04:08,090 --> 00:04:13,370 the u.s. police deaths and the British 87 00:04:10,459 --> 00:04:15,829 police deaths since 1791 and they have 88 00:04:13,370 --> 00:04:18,019 records for both nations since 1790 one 89 00:04:15,829 --> 00:04:19,970 as a proportion of the population there 90 00:04:18,019 --> 00:04:21,829 have been just as many UK police 91 00:04:19,970 --> 00:04:24,860 officers killed in the line of duty as 92 00:04:21,829 --> 00:04:26,630 American police officers and yet a lot 93 00:04:24,860 --> 00:04:28,789 more victims of police violence and the 94 00:04:26,630 --> 00:04:32,180 United States now one of the reasons is 95 00:04:28,789 --> 00:04:34,280 that Americans are very well-armed here 96 00:04:32,180 --> 00:04:35,840 the police are pretty certain when they 97 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:38,780 go to arrest somebody they're not going 98 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:40,400 to be armed with an ak-47 in the US is a 99 00:04:38,780 --> 00:04:43,130 good chance the person you're going to 100 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,889 arrest could have an ak-47 I think a lot 101 00:04:43,130 --> 00:04:47,780 of police are very afraid and they're in 102 00:04:45,889 --> 00:04:49,039 particular afraid of black people that 103 00:04:47,780 --> 00:04:51,410 they're going to arrest our confront 104 00:04:49,039 --> 00:04:54,229 they see them as more you know 105 00:04:51,410 --> 00:04:57,349 superpower or super you know the weapons 106 00:04:54,229 --> 00:05:00,110 that they're going to have Wow well 107 00:04:57,349 --> 00:05:01,700 let's turn to the political front though 108 00:05:00,110 --> 00:05:06,530 of course these two things are not at 109 00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:08,510 all disconnected I mean Donald Trump 110 00:05:06,530 --> 00:05:12,229 let's talk about him before we shall 111 00:05:08,510 --> 00:05:14,720 overcome as the song says What did he 112 00:05:12,229 --> 00:05:16,880 say on the launch of his back when he 113 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,800 launched his campaign he imagined that 114 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:21,289 he went to build a wall between the 115 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,630 United States and Mexico and get Mexico 116 00:05:21,289 --> 00:05:26,330 to Berlin Wall oh yes a Berlin Wall ER 117 00:05:23,630 --> 00:05:29,120 like the wall in Israel Palestine and 118 00:05:26,330 --> 00:05:31,190 then he said that the Mexicans in 119 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,050 America called they are rapists he said 120 00:05:31,190 --> 00:05:35,360 they're rapists can I can say that he 121 00:05:33,050 --> 00:05:38,330 going in America you can say whatever 122 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,270 you want but the guy who shot up at the 123 00:05:38,330 --> 00:05:42,740 the church in Charleston South Carolina 124 00:05:40,270 --> 00:05:45,169 he also said that when killing these 125 00:05:42,740 --> 00:05:48,500 nine african americans in this church he 126 00:05:45,169 --> 00:05:50,539 said that as he was reloading he said 127 00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:53,390 I'm sorry but your your your men rape 128 00:05:50,539 --> 00:05:56,740 our women and you're taking over this 129 00:05:53,390 --> 00:05:58,969 country I think that's a good you know 130 00:05:56,740 --> 00:06:00,589 microcosm of what is going on in 131 00:05:58,969 --> 00:06:03,559 in America in general around the world 132 00:06:00,589 --> 00:06:06,349 is reflecting the same idea yes he 133 00:06:03,559 --> 00:06:07,729 messes China he mentions like I i like 134 00:06:06,349 --> 00:06:09,049 to Chinese they bought my hat they 135 00:06:07,729 --> 00:06:10,969 bought one of my properties for 15 136 00:06:09,049 --> 00:06:13,099 million bucks but you know what we got 137 00:06:10,969 --> 00:06:16,159 to stop them meanwhile he's got at 138 00:06:13,099 --> 00:06:18,199 actors be very pleased fifty dollars 139 00:06:16,159 --> 00:06:19,819 each to stand there supporting him at 140 00:06:18,199 --> 00:06:21,799 don't really they were actors well again 141 00:06:19,819 --> 00:06:23,719 I should probably compare that to the US 142 00:06:21,799 --> 00:06:26,839 on the world stage as you have people 143 00:06:23,719 --> 00:06:29,659 you know basically forced to pretend 144 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:31,669 that they agree the u.s. position and 145 00:06:29,659 --> 00:06:32,989 you're my world and behind the scenes we 146 00:06:31,669 --> 00:06:34,729 find out that they're actually saying oh 147 00:06:32,989 --> 00:06:36,739 my god these guys are you most likely to 148 00:06:34,729 --> 00:06:38,059 be a ross perot though as each first of 149 00:06:36,739 --> 00:06:42,469 all it doesn't have anything like ross 150 00:06:38,059 --> 00:06:45,469 perot's money and neither does he have 151 00:06:42,469 --> 00:06:47,709 his appeal the main battle is going to 152 00:06:45,469 --> 00:06:50,299 be between Republican and Democrat I'm 153 00:06:47,709 --> 00:06:54,199 certain of that how certain are you 154 00:06:50,299 --> 00:06:56,599 there is another Bush Clinton affair 155 00:06:54,199 --> 00:06:58,489 well if you recall the last time I was 156 00:06:56,599 --> 00:07:00,709 on your show I didn't think Bush would 157 00:06:58,489 --> 00:07:02,659 actually run I don't I didn't think he 158 00:07:00,709 --> 00:07:04,099 would put his name in to the hat to run 159 00:07:02,659 --> 00:07:07,099 because I thought I was going to mention 160 00:07:04,099 --> 00:07:09,639 that he would think i thought that 161 00:07:07,099 --> 00:07:12,169 america wasn't ready for a dynasty for 162 00:07:09,639 --> 00:07:14,509 more of a british sort of aristocratic 163 00:07:12,169 --> 00:07:17,839 sort of system but they clearly are i 164 00:07:14,509 --> 00:07:19,610 think this is a way maybe I don't think 165 00:07:17,839 --> 00:07:23,479 however the base of the Republican Party 166 00:07:19,610 --> 00:07:26,569 I think the power like powerful people 167 00:07:23,479 --> 00:07:29,119 money people like bush and he's probably 168 00:07:26,569 --> 00:07:30,589 more sensible than his brother and I 169 00:07:29,119 --> 00:07:33,259 wouldn't be difficult yeah that would it 170 00:07:30,589 --> 00:07:36,110 be difficult but the base remember jeb 171 00:07:33,259 --> 00:07:38,869 Bush's Catholic george w bush's 172 00:07:36,110 --> 00:07:41,419 evangelical and the evangelical voting 173 00:07:38,869 --> 00:07:43,489 base of the Republican Party knew that 174 00:07:41,419 --> 00:07:46,299 they understood that he was one of them 175 00:07:43,489 --> 00:07:48,649 as why they merged lucious Catholic 176 00:07:46,299 --> 00:07:50,599 we've got Tony Blair and now you're 177 00:07:48,649 --> 00:07:52,579 telling me we've got Jeb Bush he 178 00:07:50,599 --> 00:07:57,019 converted to Catholicism he was born 179 00:07:52,579 --> 00:07:59,269 Episcopalian like george HW bush and he 180 00:07:57,019 --> 00:08:00,649 became catholic now this also presents 181 00:07:59,269 --> 00:08:03,289 an interesting thing because of course 182 00:08:00,649 --> 00:08:05,269 the Pope issued the encyclical about 183 00:08:03,289 --> 00:08:07,129 climate change which Americans are 184 00:08:05,269 --> 00:08:08,899 especially Republicans like eighty 185 00:08:07,129 --> 00:08:12,720 ninety percent of them believe it's 186 00:08:08,899 --> 00:08:15,030 either hoaxes or it's caused by 187 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,700 a natural process so the Pope has come 188 00:08:15,030 --> 00:08:20,160 out this is a good say yeah he's calling 189 00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:22,110 it like a giant trash heap of we've 190 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,270 turned earth into and that we have to 191 00:08:22,110 --> 00:08:25,830 stop climate change so the two 192 00:08:24,270 --> 00:08:28,860 frontrunners on the Republican side are 193 00:08:25,830 --> 00:08:31,050 Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio to Catholics so 194 00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:32,430 there's always that suspicion in America 195 00:08:31,050 --> 00:08:35,370 of Catholics and they're gonna take 196 00:08:32,430 --> 00:08:39,510 orders from the Pope's um Hillary 197 00:08:35,370 --> 00:08:43,140 Clinton I mean I find it difficult to 198 00:08:39,510 --> 00:08:45,930 take it seriously the idea that that 199 00:08:43,140 --> 00:08:47,790 this woman will be the Democrat nominee 200 00:08:45,930 --> 00:08:51,440 but if she is she's likely to win I 201 00:08:47,790 --> 00:08:53,520 would have thought because I mean are a 202 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:57,690 Republican maybe i'm wrong but a 203 00:08:53,520 --> 00:09:00,030 republican bush three seems such a big 204 00:08:57,690 --> 00:09:02,370 ask of the united states well like i 205 00:09:00,030 --> 00:09:05,330 said i don't think bush i think it might 206 00:09:02,370 --> 00:09:08,310 be Marco Rubio who comes out ahead he's 207 00:09:05,330 --> 00:09:10,920 you know Latino he said the new 208 00:09:08,310 --> 00:09:15,330 generation is coming up and I think also 209 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:18,360 he's he pulls better than Bush against 210 00:09:15,330 --> 00:09:20,250 Clinton in the three basically to become 211 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,110 president you have to win two of the 212 00:09:20,250 --> 00:09:24,270 three states ohio pennsylvania in 213 00:09:22,110 --> 00:09:27,150 florida and he does best in the polls 214 00:09:24,270 --> 00:09:29,960 against clinton in those states she 215 00:09:27,150 --> 00:09:32,910 still she still wins Florida right now 216 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:37,320 it even though he was the senator from 217 00:09:32,910 --> 00:09:41,310 Florida now he the other problem however 218 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:43,200 is that the Cuban story Obama has kind 219 00:09:41,310 --> 00:09:45,330 of taken that away from him and he's a 220 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,610 he's resolved it you can't now suddenly 221 00:09:45,330 --> 00:09:50,850 want to bring back something from the 222 00:09:47,610 --> 00:09:54,390 past in order he was would I think have 223 00:09:50,850 --> 00:09:58,760 done better if Obama had not pulled that 224 00:09:54,390 --> 00:10:03,060 rug out but Hillary is plagued by 225 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:07,230 ethical issues plagued by the downside 226 00:10:03,060 --> 00:10:09,600 of her husband's presidency he was quite 227 00:10:07,230 --> 00:10:11,910 well thought of at the time but since 228 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:16,440 then things like the abolition of the 229 00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:20,730 glass-steagall act the the three strikes 230 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:22,410 and you're out legal changes that he 231 00:10:20,730 --> 00:10:25,500 made which has led to mass incarceration 232 00:10:22,410 --> 00:10:26,250 of black people in America can Hillary 233 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:28,890 some 234 00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:30,630 those things well okay now in the 235 00:10:28,890 --> 00:10:33,540 American system you have the primaries 236 00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:35,040 first and then the election so it's what 237 00:10:33,540 --> 00:10:36,960 happens in the primaries you don't know 238 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,180 she has to run against Bernie Sanders 239 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,530 who is the only socialist in America 240 00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:42,600 he's running for the Democratic ticket 241 00:10:40,530 --> 00:10:45,720 she's gonna have to go further left in 242 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:49,770 the primaries to make sure like she gets 243 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:52,860 enough boats in the Republican side the 244 00:10:49,770 --> 00:10:54,390 the Catholics Rubio and Jeb Bush are 245 00:10:52,860 --> 00:10:55,620 gonna have to disown the Pope and 246 00:10:54,390 --> 00:10:57,450 they're gonna have to be crazy for the 247 00:10:55,620 --> 00:10:59,790 evangelicals that leave Scott Walker by 248 00:10:57,450 --> 00:11:01,620 the way he's the third and right now in 249 00:10:59,790 --> 00:11:04,620 the polling and he's from wisconsin 250 00:11:01,620 --> 00:11:07,740 northern but he's event evangelical and 251 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:09,660 very he's proven his track ered regions 252 00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:11,910 match the union's all the women unions 253 00:11:09,660 --> 00:11:15,420 he left untouched the police and firemen 254 00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:17,610 unions which are majority male the 255 00:11:15,420 --> 00:11:19,140 fireman is ninety-seven percent male but 256 00:11:17,610 --> 00:11:23,100 he smashed the teachers and the nurses 257 00:11:19,140 --> 00:11:27,450 that the women the female based unions 258 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:31,950 and so um President Obama's tenure comes 259 00:11:27,450 --> 00:11:34,610 to a rather pitiful pathetic sputtering 260 00:11:31,950 --> 00:11:37,230 end doesn't it in the United States 261 00:11:34,610 --> 00:11:40,140 there seems to be an intense hatred of 262 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:42,000 Obama amongst Tenzin way he's playing 263 00:11:40,140 --> 00:11:43,860 out in Charleston South Carolina you 264 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:47,070 know there was an escalation and that 265 00:11:43,860 --> 00:11:49,620 sort of crimes against hate crimes 266 00:11:47,070 --> 00:11:52,520 against black people but on the other 267 00:11:49,620 --> 00:11:52,520 side you also see 268 00:11:58,070 --> 00:12:00,130 you 269 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:07,810 world one would think against all sorts 270 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,760 of drone Wars and surveillance and the 271 00:12:07,810 --> 00:12:11,740 left wing we're very good at standing up 272 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,050 against george w bush and very vocal 273 00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:15,670 they really were challenging him there 274 00:12:14,050 --> 00:12:18,400 was some real conflict in the US and 275 00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:20,050 challenge and you know people standing 276 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,970 up to Authority now it's just because 277 00:12:20,050 --> 00:12:23,980 the right doesn't mind that and the 278 00:12:21,970 --> 00:12:25,450 right wing has been for him with a trade 279 00:12:23,980 --> 00:12:28,960 deal that the left wing has now 280 00:12:25,450 --> 00:12:30,850 scuppered in terms of the TPP stasia how 281 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,880 about thank you that's a story that's 282 00:12:30,850 --> 00:12:35,890 going to run and run coming up after the 283 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,290 break how does policing in London look 284 00:12:35,890 --> 00:12:40,500 if you're black find out we'll be right 285 00:12:38,290 --> 00:12:40,500 back 286 00:12:50,319 --> 00:12:56,389 welcome back to Sputnik the BBC sex 287 00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:58,819 partner the Met policing London has 288 00:12:56,389 --> 00:13:00,370 attracted much critical acclaim it seeks 289 00:12:58,819 --> 00:13:02,420 to show the difficulties and 290 00:13:00,370 --> 00:13:05,120 complexities of policing this great 291 00:13:02,420 --> 00:13:08,079 metropolis where the minorities are the 292 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:11,149 majority exceptin police force of course 293 00:13:08,079 --> 00:13:12,829 to be fair though the med police have 294 00:13:11,149 --> 00:13:15,019 several times acknowledge their 295 00:13:12,829 --> 00:13:18,170 institutionalized problem with racism 296 00:13:15,019 --> 00:13:20,749 there have been less good at solving the 297 00:13:18,170 --> 00:13:23,029 problem though joining us now is a man 298 00:13:20,749 --> 00:13:24,920 who I'm sure knows how to solve the 299 00:13:23,029 --> 00:13:27,439 problem he's the great human rights 300 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:30,589 leader Stafford Scott coordinator of 301 00:13:27,439 --> 00:13:34,339 tottenham rights supporter of the mark 302 00:13:30,589 --> 00:13:38,110 duggan campaign now suppose Stafford in 303 00:13:34,339 --> 00:13:41,600 tottenham the program didn't go down 304 00:13:38,110 --> 00:13:44,029 entirely well I met anybody from 305 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,980 Tottenham or from the surrounding areas 306 00:13:44,029 --> 00:13:49,129 who felt that I was a realistic 307 00:13:45,980 --> 00:13:51,439 portrayal of their relationship with the 308 00:13:49,129 --> 00:13:53,779 Metropolitan Police Service as far as 309 00:13:51,439 --> 00:13:56,300 most people are concerned I've met it 310 00:13:53,779 --> 00:13:58,279 was fluff I think I would agree with 311 00:13:56,300 --> 00:14:01,459 what Simon Jenkins were in The Guardian 312 00:13:58,279 --> 00:14:04,970 about it then it's just for Fitz just PR 313 00:14:01,459 --> 00:14:08,089 is met PR but it's dangerous PR it is 314 00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:10,970 those kind of programs that only show 315 00:14:08,089 --> 00:14:13,250 the side of the police into the police 316 00:14:10,970 --> 00:14:17,569 want us to see is the problem at the top 317 00:14:13,250 --> 00:14:19,699 of the police or at the bottom well we 318 00:14:17,569 --> 00:14:21,110 saw we saw the Commissioner on telly and 319 00:14:19,699 --> 00:14:23,750 we heard him say they hadn't arrested 320 00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:25,879 anybody in the last seven years so the 321 00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:28,819 problem isn't with the commissioners is 322 00:14:25,879 --> 00:14:31,160 not with the chief superintendents it's 323 00:14:28,819 --> 00:14:33,860 with the foot soldiers is with the rank 324 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:36,199 and file is within the everyday Bobby 325 00:14:33,860 --> 00:14:38,420 and what the program failed to show us 326 00:14:36,199 --> 00:14:39,620 was about the canteen culture because 327 00:14:38,420 --> 00:14:41,839 that's what we're being complaining 328 00:14:39,620 --> 00:14:44,929 about ever since I was a child the 329 00:14:41,839 --> 00:14:47,149 canteen culture where it becomes where 330 00:14:44,929 --> 00:14:49,639 racism and racist behaviors become 331 00:14:47,149 --> 00:14:51,559 normalized and where black people become 332 00:14:49,639 --> 00:14:53,660 stereotypes and that's what we weren't 333 00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:54,950 seen this program and what we want to 334 00:14:53,660 --> 00:14:57,920 see a program about 335 00:14:54,950 --> 00:14:59,780 men is how they address those issues how 336 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,810 they deal with those issues well you see 337 00:14:59,780 --> 00:15:04,640 how I was hoping that your answer would 338 00:15:02,810 --> 00:15:07,780 be the reverse because that would be 339 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:09,980 much easier to deal with as somebody 340 00:15:07,780 --> 00:15:11,990 running for the office of mayor of 341 00:15:09,980 --> 00:15:14,150 london and hoping to run the police if 342 00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:16,100 the problem was at the top it would be 343 00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:19,160 much easier absolutely just remove the 344 00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:23,120 people at the top make you the Chief 345 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:24,950 Constable and hey presto the problem 346 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,200 would be over but it's bigger than that 347 00:15:24,950 --> 00:15:30,230 because the problem is further down 348 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,210 amongst the rank and file and are there 349 00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:36,290 any signs that is getting any better or 350 00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:39,110 other signs it's getting worse I think 351 00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:42,380 there was a period post McPherson and 352 00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:44,360 another period post the verdict in the 353 00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:47,810 mark duggan ingress where the police 354 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:50,030 appeared to be trying to control their 355 00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:53,660 officers control their behaviors and 356 00:15:50,030 --> 00:15:55,370 control their practices since McPherson 357 00:15:53,660 --> 00:15:58,850 they have definitely gone back to their 358 00:15:55,370 --> 00:16:00,980 bad old ways and since this program was 359 00:15:58,850 --> 00:16:03,560 first filmed they've gone back to their 360 00:16:00,980 --> 00:16:07,360 hard old ways in tottenham at the moment 361 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:10,730 we are waiting for and the launch of 362 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,410 Operation shield which is a pilot of the 363 00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:15,380 Boston model which is the most 364 00:16:12,410 --> 00:16:17,570 oppressive kind of policing that these 365 00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:19,460 police officers could possibly wish to 366 00:16:17,570 --> 00:16:21,080 bring to an area like Tottenham is not 367 00:16:19,460 --> 00:16:23,780 just Tottenham they also bring it to 368 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,220 Brixton the other area that was ironic I 369 00:16:23,780 --> 00:16:27,560 wonder what tournament bricks don't have 370 00:16:25,220 --> 00:16:29,600 in common well I think what we have in 371 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,760 common is history and I think that the 372 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:34,100 Metropolitan Police Service what they 373 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,720 have is a very long memory and I think 374 00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:37,610 that what they want to do is come back 375 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:41,480 into areas like Tottenham and Brixton 376 00:16:37,610 --> 00:16:43,160 and try to equal old scores I think that 377 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:46,100 because of what happened in Tottenham on 378 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:48,290 the fourth of August 2011 tried in a 379 00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:50,480 desperate to get back in there and now 380 00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:53,120 the mere the local authority and the 381 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:55,130 police have come together to create an 382 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,870 opportunity for them to come back into 383 00:16:55,130 --> 00:16:59,570 topmen but if you look all of the 384 00:16:56,870 --> 00:17:01,910 statistics there's no reason whatsoever 385 00:16:59,570 --> 00:17:05,209 why Duncan should be a focus of this 386 00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:08,240 well the blood runs cold at the thought 387 00:17:05,209 --> 00:17:12,050 of an American policing model being up 388 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:15,520 on the streets of London has this been 389 00:17:12,050 --> 00:17:18,860 subject to any public consultation any 390 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:22,150 public debate I mean I saw one of the 391 00:17:18,860 --> 00:17:26,270 most remarkable sights on this program 392 00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:29,809 in Brixton where a comrade of mine Lee 393 00:17:26,270 --> 00:17:33,470 jasper is ranting a panel of powerful 394 00:17:29,809 --> 00:17:37,220 people who are representing the police 395 00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:40,160 and every person on the panel is right 396 00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:42,590 absolutely every person is why they're 397 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,809 all telling us that just hold on we're 398 00:17:42,590 --> 00:17:46,370 we're aware of the issues we know what 399 00:17:44,809 --> 00:17:48,050 the problems are we're going to adjust 400 00:17:46,370 --> 00:17:50,090 them we're going to solve them and then 401 00:17:48,050 --> 00:17:51,980 what we see is in another few years we 402 00:17:50,090 --> 00:17:53,780 see another white panel generally 403 00:17:51,980 --> 00:17:57,890 different people who are trying to tell 404 00:17:53,780 --> 00:18:00,140 us the same exact message unlike the BBC 405 00:17:57,890 --> 00:18:02,660 we don't fall for that message easily 406 00:18:00,140 --> 00:18:04,220 because we experience policing they're 407 00:18:02,660 --> 00:18:06,380 not changing they're not making a 408 00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:08,750 difference and the reality is is the 409 00:18:06,380 --> 00:18:11,090 only things that have changed since when 410 00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:13,490 I was growing up in the 80s is the fact 411 00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:15,080 that there's cameras in vans so that we 412 00:18:13,490 --> 00:18:17,120 don't get beaten up in the vans in the 413 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,220 way that we used to before but we get 414 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:21,110 beaten on the streets we get roughed up 415 00:18:19,220 --> 00:18:23,540 on the streets before they bring us into 416 00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:26,030 those police stations and if you look at 417 00:18:23,540 --> 00:18:27,950 the statistics around stop and search as 418 00:18:26,030 --> 00:18:29,990 an example those statistics have 419 00:18:27,950 --> 00:18:32,120 actually shot up and they haven't gone 420 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:36,559 down the Met hasn't learned anything and 421 00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:39,110 for that I'm very very clear the irony 422 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:41,840 of this all with the title of policing 423 00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:43,400 London the one spot that they're missing 424 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,260 and where a lot of criminal activities 425 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,150 are taking place is the city in the City 426 00:18:45,260 --> 00:18:49,220 of London absolutely where the mech 427 00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:51,260 doesn't have a responsibility here and 428 00:18:49,220 --> 00:18:53,330 there might actually be a good thing but 429 00:18:51,260 --> 00:18:56,360 it means that we're not seeing the whole 430 00:18:53,330 --> 00:19:00,320 picture but is being told to people that 431 00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:01,730 this is the whole picture I was invited 432 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,580 to meet the producers of that show 433 00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:06,440 whilst they were filming I've assumed 434 00:19:04,580 --> 00:19:08,809 wrongly that they were going to invite 435 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,270 me for an interview they invited me for 436 00:19:08,809 --> 00:19:13,400 a coffee gave me some dvds of what 437 00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:14,570 they're done previously and just told me 438 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,890 that they were doing this and what it 439 00:19:14,570 --> 00:19:19,690 really says is they know the voices of 440 00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:22,810 since but they don't want to hit put 441 00:19:19,690 --> 00:19:27,280 those voices of dissent on film the Met 442 00:19:22,810 --> 00:19:29,700 has a massive mpr budget it used to be 443 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,840 bigger than the entire budget for the 444 00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:33,520 IPCC the organization with 445 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,130 responsibility for holding them to 446 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:39,250 account they're brilliant appear they 447 00:19:36,130 --> 00:19:41,620 really do not need and taxpayers money 448 00:19:39,250 --> 00:19:43,420 to be paid helping them do the job and 449 00:19:41,620 --> 00:19:46,300 unfortunately that's exactly what the 450 00:19:43,420 --> 00:19:48,490 BBC is doing at the moment the Reverend 451 00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:50,950 Jesse Jackson was on the radio this 452 00:19:48,490 --> 00:19:53,140 morning from the United States in the 453 00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:56,110 wake of the South Carolina the 454 00:19:53,140 --> 00:20:01,590 Charleston massacre in the African 455 00:19:56,110 --> 00:20:05,560 church there and he made the point that 456 00:20:01,590 --> 00:20:08,010 black white inequalities in wealth black 457 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:12,220 white inequalities in living conditions 458 00:20:08,010 --> 00:20:14,650 housing circumstances employment and 459 00:20:12,220 --> 00:20:17,590 other prospects were actually getting 460 00:20:14,650 --> 00:20:21,430 worse in the United States getting wider 461 00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:24,270 that's him here absolutely in the 1980s 462 00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:26,560 I went on telly and actually spoke about 463 00:20:24,270 --> 00:20:28,030 he's not the kind of language I was used 464 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:31,060 to thee but I was talking about 465 00:20:28,030 --> 00:20:34,240 subculture that was growing in front of 466 00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:36,190 our very eyes the problem here and the 467 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,530 problem with most of white societies 468 00:20:36,190 --> 00:20:41,380 when we talk about racism people want to 469 00:20:38,530 --> 00:20:42,820 believe that it's a victimless crime but 470 00:20:41,380 --> 00:20:44,380 it's not of it in this crime and you're 471 00:20:42,820 --> 00:20:46,360 a young and you go to school and you're 472 00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:48,550 the victim of racism from teachers and 473 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:50,890 head teachers and you're excluded from 474 00:20:48,550 --> 00:20:54,730 school that has an impact has an impact 475 00:20:50,890 --> 00:20:57,130 on your ability to be able to stay with 476 00:20:54,730 --> 00:21:00,130 them with the mainstream impact on your 477 00:20:57,130 --> 00:21:02,530 ability to be able to go forth get jobs 478 00:21:00,130 --> 00:21:04,240 and work if it happens to one person the 479 00:21:02,530 --> 00:21:06,310 rest of the community can support them 480 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,350 but it happens all the community then 481 00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:10,600 there's no support for them so we have 482 00:21:08,350 --> 00:21:12,510 some young people's but particularly in 483 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,830 our community who are particularly 484 00:21:12,510 --> 00:21:17,710 marginalizing I say from the mainstream 485 00:21:14,830 --> 00:21:20,440 who had totally cut off and almost left 486 00:21:17,710 --> 00:21:22,030 to their own devices until the one 487 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,280 service that they do get from the 488 00:21:22,030 --> 00:21:26,170 mainstream turns up and that's our mates 489 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,380 in the Metropolitan Police Service and 490 00:21:26,170 --> 00:21:28,380 when 491 00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:46,539 by the program and of course influences 492 00:21:40,029 --> 00:21:48,129 the entire subculture at 28 times you 493 00:21:46,539 --> 00:21:50,559 are more likely to be stopped and 494 00:21:48,129 --> 00:21:54,149 searched if you're black or Asian than 495 00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:56,829 if you are white that's a phenomenal 496 00:21:54,149 --> 00:22:01,059 difference that cannot possibly be 497 00:21:56,829 --> 00:22:04,179 explained by conviction rates or even 498 00:22:01,059 --> 00:22:08,549 charging rates although I hardly Jasper 499 00:22:04,179 --> 00:22:12,719 on this program on the met on BBC say 500 00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:15,249 that you're twice as likely to be 501 00:22:12,719 --> 00:22:17,619 actually taken to court for possession 502 00:22:15,249 --> 00:22:20,489 of cannabis if you're black then if 503 00:22:17,619 --> 00:22:24,519 you're white I'd like to know how anyone 504 00:22:20,489 --> 00:22:26,649 explains that oh it's simple when police 505 00:22:24,519 --> 00:22:28,719 officers have given the power of using 506 00:22:26,649 --> 00:22:30,489 their discretion and they are as black 507 00:22:28,719 --> 00:22:33,309 people they choose not to use that 508 00:22:30,489 --> 00:22:35,499 discretion when they're urs black people 509 00:22:33,309 --> 00:22:37,029 they criminalize us in ways that they 510 00:22:35,499 --> 00:22:40,329 wouldn't do to your average white 511 00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:42,039 middle-class person per se so there's a 512 00:22:40,329 --> 00:22:44,559 discretion issue that isn't being used 513 00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:48,190 there's powers they're being abused and 514 00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:50,679 those who sit there as commissioner and 515 00:22:48,190 --> 00:22:53,049 borrow command is they're aware of it 516 00:22:50,679 --> 00:22:54,429 and they're incapable and unable of 517 00:22:53,049 --> 00:22:56,889 stopping their officers and I'll give 518 00:22:54,429 --> 00:22:58,779 you an example any time since the victor 519 00:22:56,889 --> 00:23:00,899 elisa came to tottenham we had a 520 00:22:58,779 --> 00:23:03,999 fractious relationship at the beginning 521 00:23:00,899 --> 00:23:06,729 eventually we're up actually like the 522 00:23:03,999 --> 00:23:08,499 man now but every time I organize a 523 00:23:06,729 --> 00:23:10,419 meeting for the mark duggan just this 524 00:23:08,499 --> 00:23:12,369 campaign his officers turn up at the 525 00:23:10,419 --> 00:23:13,509 venues and the reason why they turn up 526 00:23:12,369 --> 00:23:17,019 is because they're trying to harass 527 00:23:13,509 --> 00:23:19,629 those venues and ski those venues into 528 00:23:17,019 --> 00:23:21,849 hosting us he has promised me that he 529 00:23:19,629 --> 00:23:24,549 would stop them he has been totally 530 00:23:21,849 --> 00:23:27,190 incapable of doing it his managers 531 00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:29,769 underneath him his senior officers send 532 00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:31,749 over lesser officers to come to the 533 00:23:29,769 --> 00:23:34,539 venues they came there last week what 534 00:23:31,749 --> 00:23:36,429 i'm gonna do since he's unable to stop 535 00:23:34,539 --> 00:23:38,049 it i'm going to tell him that the next 536 00:23:36,429 --> 00:23:40,329 time that happens i will be carrying us 537 00:23:38,049 --> 00:23:42,249 isn't a rest on those officers because i 538 00:23:40,329 --> 00:23:43,480 believe that their behavior is likely to 539 00:23:42,249 --> 00:23:45,790 cause a breach of the peace 540 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,390 it's unnecessary honest is harassment 541 00:23:45,790 --> 00:23:52,120 but he is incapable of being able to 542 00:23:49,390 --> 00:23:54,040 stop them so the politicians those are 543 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:56,410 the top echelons of the police service 544 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:59,410 can say what they want to say until they 545 00:23:56,410 --> 00:24:01,240 can absolutely have control over their 546 00:23:59,410 --> 00:24:04,090 offices and get their officers to show 547 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,310 restraint then it's just words and they 548 00:24:04,090 --> 00:24:09,010 just mean in this worse I have lived 549 00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:10,720 through at least 15 different police 550 00:24:09,010 --> 00:24:12,940 commissioner's I've heard it all from 551 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,830 all of them and some of them are heard 552 00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:16,660 is safe saying it better and more 553 00:24:14,830 --> 00:24:19,300 believable than the current commissioner 554 00:24:16,660 --> 00:24:21,760 and none of them are actually able to 555 00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:28,420 deliver stovl Scott will have to talk to 556 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:30,070 you I'm sure again and now it's your 557 00:24:28,420 --> 00:24:32,200 turn to tell us what you think through 558 00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:35,080 the portals of social media what's 559 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,870 rattling gayatri well we asked is Bush 560 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:40,960 versus Clinton again really the best the 561 00:24:37,870 --> 00:24:43,090 u.s. can do to which Ricardo because so 562 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,760 answers regardless of the name its 563 00:24:43,090 --> 00:24:48,370 corporation donkey versus corporation 564 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:51,010 elephant is it really America's idea of 565 00:24:48,370 --> 00:24:54,280 democracy two cheeks of the same batter 566 00:24:51,010 --> 00:24:57,070 exactly and about the Metropolitan 567 00:24:54,280 --> 00:25:00,580 Police the BBC series del strain 568 00:24:57,070 --> 00:25:02,560 comedian says same old same old bill PR 569 00:25:00,580 --> 00:25:04,690 is better and red camera have to be 570 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,370 careful now that's all I we've got for 571 00:25:04,690 --> 00:25:07,720 this week which alas means that's the 572 00:25:06,370 --> 00:25:10,300 end of the show you can stay in touch 573 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,830 with us on twitter RT underscore Sputnik 574 00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:13,630 and on facebook you can like us on 575 00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:15,640 Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye 576 00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:18,930 from me gayathri and from me george 577 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,930 galloway it's been marvelous 578 00:25:25,230 --> 00:25:27,290 you