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[Music]

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Okay, we did it. Thank you. Ide

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Welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway

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and me Gadri

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Henry Scoop Jackson was a cold war hawk

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veteran of the US Congress always

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pushing for more weapons more war and

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for a long time harbored a raft of

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anti-semitic views yet when the British

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neocons were casting around for a peg to

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hang their top hats on. They oddly

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fastened upon the obscure and largely

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forgotten Henry Jackson. Now

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turbocharged with pro-Israel fervor and

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anti-Islamist fanaticism, the HJS has

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become the font of some of the most

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poisonous right-wing agitation in this

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country. A group of British academics

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together with the Cordoba Foundation

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have recently published chapter and

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verse about the go-to guys for a witch

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hunt.

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We're joined by the CEO of the Cordoba

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Foundation, the redoubtable Anus Altei.

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Annas, welcome.

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Tell the public if you would about the

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Henry Jackson Society. I know about them

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and hate them so much. I'm I'm I'm not a

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dispassionate commentator on it. So,

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better if you sum them up, please.

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Well, first of all, George Bry, thank

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you for for inviting me back. It's

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always a pleasure. um you know as you

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put

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and ignoble failures of neoconservatives

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on on every single level whether it be

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on home fronts in the United States in

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the United Kingdom throughout Europe or

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in their ventures abroad such as in Iraq

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and and elsewhere

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we're still talking about them and the

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reason is and this is why what we

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attempt to do in the report we attempt

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to uncover exactly what the Henry

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Jackson Society stands for, who funds

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it, who stands behind it, who is linked

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to it, who is part of the structure whom

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they present from time to time that

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gives you and I the aura that there are

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so many out there who are against us.

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Actually, it's not so many. They all

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belong to the very same basket. And the

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basket is the Henry Jackson Society.

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On the face of it, you see, you'd think

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such people wouldn't be able to show

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face in public.

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You'd think so. The anti-terrorism

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agenda that they drove through has led

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to more terrorism. The war in Iraq has

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turned into uh almost an apocalypse.

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It's almost impossible to overstate the

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size of the disaster. the

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neoconservative

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uh Bush and Blair years now look

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incredibly toxic to anyone.

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Even even the right even the right wing,

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they want nothing to do with either Bush

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or Blair.

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But these people are just as aboliant as

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ever and just as asserbic uh acidic

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actually as as ever. Where do they get

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the goal? Well, they're driven by two

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main things I believe. The first is an

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ideology. They they are very very much

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ideologues despite them coming from

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various backgrounds, political, media,

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business, trade, some of them education,

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some of them health, military or the

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such, but ultimately they all believe

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deeply in the new conservative message.

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That's very very important by the way

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because I can I can you and I know I

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mean we can stand a politician whom we

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disagree with. We can uh you know

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disagree with anyone on on any other

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issue and usually you'd win that

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particular argument. But the when you

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have an ideologue as we do have in even

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our government of today we have

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ideologues not politicians that is where

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things turn as you put it acidic. The

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other element is finance. They have a

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lot of it. They have huge backings and

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we're talking about corporations worth

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tens of millions. We're talking about a

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structure of organizations. If you were

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to put them all together in one pot,

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they would be worth billions, several

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billions, actually. And the interesting

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thing is this. Time and time and time

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again, whilst whilst the names are, you

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know, if you wish, the who's who of

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general right-wing, sometimes even

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far-right wing policies and economic and

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social spheres and the such in the UK

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and in America,

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ultimately, and this is what we find

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time and time again in the report, the

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thread always leads back to Tel Aviv.

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And they never give up uh their Trojan

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horse fiasco. Uh, it was another

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disaster for them in the sense that it

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was debunked as a forgery,

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but still they speak of it.

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They trump it. They they they they

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flaunt it. It's as though they have no

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shame. But that's the ideologue.

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I doubt if the money's I've not uh got

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to the section on finance yet, but I'm

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guessing that the money doesn't come

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from Tel Aviv, though the inspiration uh

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does. Isn't the money American money

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mainly?

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Yes, very very much so. But but it's but

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it's usually it's usually people who are

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interlin with either the Zionist find

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foundations here in the UK in America.

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Apac very very very strongly features in

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this report. It's about people who visit

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Israel quite a lot. They take that kind

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of emotional and ideological fuel from

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you know every now and then and they're

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they're they're leading the charge. So

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you know Israel figures quite quite

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prominently in in the whole operation.

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Certainly, Israel is one of their uh if

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you like sacred cows. They they it's an

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article of faith

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for neoconservatism.

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Uh and uh that much is clear from the

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report. Uh how much of a two-way street

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it is, I'll I'll wait till I get to it

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because my my take on Israel is that

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they take other people's money rather

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than give uh uh people money. Uh but I

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could be wrong about that. But the scale

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of the penetration of British civil

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society by these people is very very

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large. They have members in the cabinet.

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They have uh somebody on the question

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time panel every other week. Uh they

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they are um dragged out uh every time

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there's an issue or an incident. They

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have to have their point of view and yet

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they represent uh a very tiny fraction

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of

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very tiny numbers. Yeah, you're

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absolutely right. Very tiny. If if you

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were to draw a map, we'd be the the vast

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majority and they would be, you know,

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the the dot the dot that's, you know, is

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there somewhere. But in terms of

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influence, in terms of where they are,

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where they stand, the reach,

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the finances, it's uh it's it's really

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scary. And the thing is that these

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people because of the leverage they that

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they have they wield whether it be

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political or financial or otherwise. Um

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they know how to play this game. And

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therefore in recent years they've even

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gone to the extent of establishing

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so-called Muslim organizations but who

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serve that particular agenda. You know

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who am I to speak? I mean there's a

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Muslim with a beard you know a sheh no

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less who speaks you know in those

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particular lang those particular terms.

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So who am I to disagree with wi with

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with someone who's more knowledgeable

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such they're very very good at that. you

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know, in in the UK, one of their their

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biggest components that's has done so

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much damage over the years for everyone,

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not just for the Muslim community, for

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everyone is, for instance, the Quillian

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Foundation.

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Yeah.

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You know, propped up as um the foremost

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counter extremism, counter

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radicalization organization led by

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Muslims with a Muslim cleric somewhere

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sitting um but serving an agenda that

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has nothing to do with uh with with most

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of us. One might describe them as a kind

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of Trojan horse. One might. Absolutely.

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A few uh episodes ago, we spoke about

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Uber, which is a 50 billion dollar uh

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corporation from the US and they pay

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actually people to work online to push

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their their their business. So is that

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also a platform for the Henry Jackson

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Society of course or is

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social media social media uh is

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extremely important to them and they

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realize that social media today looms

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you know it plays probably a far larger

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role than the mainstream media than the

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BBCs of this world of skies or ITVs or

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this and there are tens of thousands

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this is a very very conservative

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estimate tens of thousands of whom

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immediately

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go on the attack. And that's why, you

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know, we post an article where we're

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presenting an idea, you know, why don't

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we think about humanity, about, you

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know, how peace really should look like

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something like that on those particular

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lines

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and we're inundated. Inundated. It's

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like a hammer comes in from everywhere

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and it's those troops that they have at

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the ready at the click of a button.

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Well, look, this raises the $64,000

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question, as the Americans used to call

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it. How come they're so good at it and

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we're so bad? How come they can

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construct such a on the right at least,

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hegimmonic project uh whilst we're two

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men and a dog handing out cycllo style

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leaflets outside tube stations?

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Listen, George, you you're right. It is

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the question. And uh I have to say we

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actually did a launch at the University

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of Bath with the authors of the report,

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the four authors. And they were they're

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a brilliant team. You know, Spinwatch is

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an organization that I, you know, I I

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invite everyone to go and look up

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because they are doing investigative

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not journalism, but investigative

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reporting and research. Research that

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really matters to each and every one of

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us on a on a sterling scale. Now, their

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leader, Professor David Miller from the

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University of Bath, he said something

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which, you know, resonates with what

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you've just asked. He said, "If nothing

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else, if nothing else, you have to give

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them credit for their tenacity and for

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their level of organization and

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dedication." Um, it's true. You know,

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since we're right and they're they are

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so wrong, why is it that we can't um

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organize? I think we can. I think we

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can. I think we do ourselves a lot of

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discredit when uh, you know, we we we

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think of ourselves in in low terms. I

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think we're better than that. We're much

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much better than that. We just need a

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little bit of organization. Plus, I

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think that these reports help to let

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people know exactly what's out there so

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that they can then mobilize, to react,

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and to counter.

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Well, we now have uh an election coming

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up with Jeb Bush likely facing Hillary

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Clinton.

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Again,

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as Henry Kissinger once said in another

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context, it's a pity both can't lose. Uh

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but uh one of them is going to win

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and uh both are neocons essentially,

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right? uh so they're not going away uh

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any time. So this report is going to be

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an essential reading uh for

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on this point George whilst you're

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absolutely right that the power is uh

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mindboggling if you wish if you look at

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it I mean it sort of fills you with

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00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,640
dread as to how much power they levy but

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just let me point to one uh one thing

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one of the major proponents and

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organization that make up the Henry

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00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:43,920
Jackson Society um is a very very much

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declared openly declared Zionist

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federation and organization

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up until recently

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It was given that any prime minister who

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came to become prime minister of Britain

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would be one of the patrons and

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therefore just a few years ago that

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particular organization had not only the

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00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,720
prime minister by the way but the

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leaders of all the major parties as

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patrons. Today we stand with that

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organization having none of the leaders

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00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:14,320
of the main parties nor even the David

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00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:17,680
Cameron the prime minister as patrons.

302
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:20,240
So you see there is there is some sort

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of backdraw and we need to capitalize on

304
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,240
that. Now whether that's because people

305
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,160
are realizing that this is a losing game

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00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,920
or whether they're realizing that rather

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00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,079
than this being an asset it's more of a

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00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,200
liability. I think it's something for us

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to pay attention to.

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Food for thought. Uh the report is

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00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:38,880
outstanding. Everyone should get

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00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,639
themselves a copy of it. Annas Altei,

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thanks as always for coming on board

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00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:44,160
this footnick. After a short break, one

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of Britain's growing number of

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independent investigative journalist

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00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,760
Mark Watts will be right back.

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[Music]

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[Music]

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Welcome back to Sputnik. As the British

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print and even mainstream television

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00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:08,720
media market continues to shrink, so

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does any nent ambition they might have

324
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,600
had to expose the rich and the powerful.

325
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That's increasingly left to the likes of

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00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:20,240
Wikileaks and our next guest, Mark Watts

327
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of Exor News, who are filling the space

328
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:26,320
where honest journalism used to be maybe

329
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:29,680
in Fleet Street. Mark Watts, welcome to

330
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:33,040
the Sputnik. Tell us first what happened

331
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:35,920
to the mainstream media that left a gap

332
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,680
that XRO is admirably filling.

333
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,079
Well, I think actually we can largely

334
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:42,560
blame accountants because accountants

335
00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:44,560
were saying in most media companies that

336
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,720
we don't need this investive journalism.

337
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:48,480
It's incredibly labor intensive. It

338
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,120
requires a lot of work and it's just

339
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:53,519
troublesome. And moreover, they said um

340
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,360
we can just rewrite wire copy from press

341
00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:57,360
association, associated press, Reuters

342
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,519
and so on. just rewrite wire copy and

343
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,680
press releases. It's very cheap to do

344
00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:04,399
and we get lots of column inches for not

345
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,600
so much money. And the problem is the

346
00:14:04,399 --> 00:14:08,399
readers and the viewers are not

347
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,240
interested in this guff. And if you look

348
00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:12,480
back at the stories that have really

349
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,920
galvanized people that have been dug up

350
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,320
by journalists, it's always the

351
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,519
investigative ones. And I I wouldn't

352
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,600
write off the mainstream media

353
00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:20,959
completely on this score. Um they

354
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,279
occasionally have, you know, little

355
00:14:20,959 --> 00:14:25,519
bursts of activity in this in this area.

356
00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:28,240
We had before X-RO came into existence

357
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:30,079
the MP's expenses scandal exposed by the

358
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,839
Telegraph. Sure. Which was which was a

359
00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:34,880
good piece of work and well executed.

360
00:14:31,839 --> 00:14:37,199
But o overall you know there's less and

361
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,959
less willingness to tackle as you put it

362
00:14:37,199 --> 00:14:42,480
the rich and powerful.

363
00:14:38,959 --> 00:14:45,279
Now uh the once upon a time we remember

364
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:48,880
it those of us of a certain age anyway

365
00:14:45,279 --> 00:14:52,800
the Sunday Times Insight team uh and so

366
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:56,320
on. But the big stories of today are

367
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:59,519
increasingly being led by you. Uh in

368
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:02,560
particular, the uh pedophile stories,

369
00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:04,880
the rich and powerful and the ring that

370
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:07,760
may or may not have existed around

371
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:12,560
Westminster and Whiteall and the clubs

372
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:15,440
adjacent. Uh why have they been so quiet

373
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,639
on this? Is it accountancy or is it

374
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,920
because they're part of the same

375
00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:20,399
establishment?

376
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,399
I think it's a bit of both. Um, and I

377
00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:24,240
think one of the

378
00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:27,440
aspects of this scandal that we're

379
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:29,440
uncovering here, um, is the failure of

380
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,959
the media to have tackled this story.

381
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,639
And this is not a recent failure. This

382
00:15:30,959 --> 00:15:34,160
is not just recently where newspapers

383
00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:36,480
had less willingness to investigative

384
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:39,279
journalism. This goes back decades. Now,

385
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,639
XRO was formed to, as we put it, hold

386
00:15:39,279 --> 00:15:42,560
power to account. We've done a whole

387
00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:45,279
series of stories about a whole series

388
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,720
of subjects. We revealed civil servants,

389
00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:48,959
senior civil servants working off

390
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,600
payroll. um a useful mechanism if you

391
00:15:48,959 --> 00:15:53,920
want to minimize tax. We uh revealed an

392
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,279
extraordinary uh recording of Rbert

393
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,800
Murdoch talking to a group of his

394
00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:58,880
journalists about how he knew all about

395
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,040
the practice of bribery that had been

396
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,639
going on um at the News of the World in

397
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,800
particular right from when he bought it.

398
00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:06,639
So he was aware of the practice. But one

399
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,480
of the investigations that we've done

400
00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:10,959
actually over about three years and

401
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,120
still continuing uh is what we call the

402
00:16:10,959 --> 00:16:15,360
Westminster Pedophile Network. And this

403
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,759
really gets to the root of how power in

404
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:20,240
Britain works. And the media has shown

405
00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:22,639
uh precious little interest in exposing

406
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,639
that in the past. Not just the media of

407
00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:27,120
course, but the prosecutorial uh

408
00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:30,079
authorities. The government has made a

409
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:33,440
terrible hash of the inquiry that they

410
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:37,120
set up, losing not one but two heads of

411
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:39,040
that uh inquiry. The very controversial

412
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:43,839
decision, not entirely closed yet, I

413
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,839
think, not to prosecute Lord Janer.

414
00:16:52,959 --> 00:17:00,079
can say what we know is that there was

415
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:02,240
multiple child sex abuse perpetuated by

416
00:17:00,079 --> 00:17:04,240
very powerful people in British in the

417
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:08,079
British establishment and there were

418
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:10,480
multiple failures to police this to

419
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:12,880
prosecute this or to expose it in any

420
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,360
way shape or form. So, it's multiple

421
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,360
failures on the part of the police, the

422
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:21,199
the entire criminal justice system, the

423
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:23,360
government, and yes, the media. And what

424
00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:24,640
we're doing really at XRO by the by the

425
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:26,319
stories that we've uncovered is we're

426
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,480
forcing the authorities in the same way

427
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:31,760
as we're in fact forcing the mainstream

428
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:33,919
media to tackle this subject. This is

429
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:36,720
undoubtedly the biggest political

430
00:17:33,919 --> 00:17:39,840
scandal in postwar Britain.

431
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,840
This story would be nowhere as important

432
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:45,120
as it now is. and it still has a long

433
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:48,480
way to go to match its importance if it

434
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:52,320
were not for Exo and people like you.

435
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:54,960
Uh, have you felt the hot breath of the

436
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,440
establishment in any way on your on the

437
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,880
back of your neck as you as you nosed

438
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,600
around on this story?

439
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,840
Um, yes. So, we we certainly we're

440
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,600
certainly aware of um some skull

441
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,320
duggery, shall we say, here and there.

442
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,799
Um, we've been very alive to it. Um and

443
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:12,559
so far uh we've managed to navigate what

444
00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:14,960
is a very very difficult story. I mean

445
00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:16,960
you know the people who are affected uh

446
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,280
is utterly traumatic for them and

447
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:22,640
remains so even if it's many years even

448
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:26,080
decades after their abuse. Um we we

449
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:27,919
talked to many uh whistleblowers um from

450
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,960
from the police for example and criminal

451
00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:30,480
justice system who

452
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,240
many honest coppers did try

453
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,120
absolutely absolutely and were lent on

454
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,799
from above

455
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,880
and that's that's a big part of this

456
00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:38,160
scandal and and of course they're

457
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,240
desperate for the truth to be known

458
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,840
actually in reality there's a kind of

459
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,520
symmetry here between journalists and

460
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,200
police officers quite often they want to

461
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,520
do the they want to do the the proper

462
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:51,360
job but somehow someone more senior than

463
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:53,039
them stops them. Now, so far we've

464
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:56,960
established

465
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:59,360
at least credible allegations that there

466
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:02,640
were people in Downing Street, there

467
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:05,440
were people in the House of Commons,

468
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,559
there were people in the House of Lords,

469
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,400
there were people in the British

470
00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:13,919
diplomatic corps, others in the Civil

471
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:16,240
Service more generally, even some judges

472
00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:19,440
and police officers have begun to pop

473
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:22,000
into this frame. Is this something

474
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:24,880
peculiar? I choose the word carefully.

475
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:28,480
Is this something peculiar to the

476
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:31,120
British ruling class? Uh why would such

477
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,600
powerful people take such terrifying

478
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:33,200
risks?

479
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,520
We don't know every all the answers to

480
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:38,400
these questions and that is a a question

481
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,799
that is sort of begging there. Um and we

482
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,880
we don't know the answer to that. Um all

483
00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:44,559
we can do is uncover the evidence step

484
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,919
by step as we have done over three

485
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:50,080
years. Um, so we've put put ourselves

486
00:19:47,919 --> 00:19:51,600
put Britain in a position where even the

487
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,520
authorities that have been so reluctant

488
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,919
to act in the past have had to

489
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:58,480
acknowledge the reality of this of this

490
00:19:55,919 --> 00:20:01,039
scandal. So we have had an overarching

491
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:04,080
inquiry commissioned because of the uh

492
00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:06,480
evidence that we had raised. We have had

493
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,480
um the police open up a whole series of

494
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:11,280
uh investigations specifically into

495
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,520
prominent people and pedophilia. We have

496
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:16,400
had the IPCC, which regulates the police

497
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:19,120
here in Britain, uh say that they're

498
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,840
looking at at least 17, the number keeps

499
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:24,080
going up, at least 17 separate cases of

500
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,960
corruption, and that's their word, of of

501
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:29,440
of cases where they believe there have

502
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,960
been cover-ups where police operations

503
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,240
were closed. And I, you know, we've

504
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,120
spoken to people who are involved in

505
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,640
some of those operations and and and it

506
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,440
happened. That is absolutely what

507
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,120
happened.

508
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:43,120
Just um a general back off the topic. a

509
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:46,240
question that uh I was pondering about

510
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:48,320
after seeing this meme uh titled

511
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,320
investigative journalism today and you

512
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,960
see a man behind the computer on social

513
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:56,320
media it was mocked but I was wondering

514
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,919
to what extent it does reflect today's

515
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,000
journalism and it's part of

516
00:20:57,919 --> 00:21:01,760
investigative journalism because if you

517
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,760
think about investigative journalism you

518
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,679
think of oh president men was that the

519
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,159
film with Hoffman

520
00:21:05,679 --> 00:21:09,360
what you imagined all journalists would

521
00:21:08,159 --> 00:21:12,080
want to be exactly

522
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:14,320
but Now, it turns out they were getting

523
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,799
their stories from hacking the telephone

524
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,080
messages of celebrities and following

525
00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:19,679
social media.

526
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,240
Yes, but there was a lot of that going

527
00:21:19,679 --> 00:21:23,600
on in in in Fleet Street or they've all

528
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,880
departed Fleet Street. We're left in

529
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,080
Fleet Street. We're the only Fleet

530
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,039
Street. How remarkable.

531
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,360
We're the only ones there.

532
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:31,520
Well, that's very

533
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,720
real journalism returns to Fleet Street.

534
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,799
But coming back to the social media

535
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,600
point, I mean, social media is is

536
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:40,400
effectively a tool um which is actually

537
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,799
very useful. It's a way that um people

538
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,880
might contact us sources can come

539
00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:46,880
through us this way. It's a way of us

540
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,960
amplifying you know the stories that

541
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,799
we're doing. And for example I mentioned

542
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,880
the overarching inquiry that happened.

543
00:21:50,799 --> 00:21:55,280
It happened because we did a series of

544
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:58,320
stories. One that exposed evidence to

545
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,919
some MPs colleagues of yours George um

546
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,240
from the Labour Party Conservative Party

547
00:21:59,919 --> 00:22:03,760
and Liberal Democrats cross party group

548
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,200
really decided we've got to do something

549
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,280
about this and we we must have this

550
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,520
overarching inquiry. initial group of

551
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,120
seven and this mushroomed. Why did it

552
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:14,000
mushroom? This was totally ignored by

553
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:16,559
the mainstream media. It was Twitter. It

554
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,240
was followers of us at XRO news on

555
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:20,000
Twitter that were just tweeting to us,

556
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,039
should we ask our MP whether they would

557
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,120
join this?

558
00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:24,960
And we said, well, if you want to, up to

559
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:26,559
you. And they did in quite large

560
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,919
numbers. And we know the MPs were

561
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:31,679
somewhat bombarded uh by will you join

562
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:34,320
uh will you sign up to this letter? And

563
00:22:31,679 --> 00:22:36,640
we had I think by the end about 146 MPs

564
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,720
in pretty quick time saying yes we want

565
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,240
this overarching inquiry. And that is

566
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,039
what forced Theresa May the Home

567
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:45,280
Secretary to order it against a very

568
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:48,799
very reluctant David Cameron.

569
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:52,480
Mark you you made a very portentous uh

570
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:56,080
statement which uh I'm still chewing

571
00:22:52,480 --> 00:23:00,960
over and I think you're right. This is

572
00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:03,600
the biggest scandal in Britain for well

573
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:06,480
since the war I think you said. Not sure

574
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:10,000
there were bigger ones before the war.

575
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:15,840
Uh and yet the only people who have been

576
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:19,200
outed are the dead or the uh Alzheimer

577
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:23,200
uh um sufferer who can't any longer be

578
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:26,080
brought to justice. How long before real

579
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:28,320
live names still in politics in some

580
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,000
cases at least still in the houses of

581
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,679
parliament

582
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,200
uh emerge at least on your pages if not

583
00:23:33,679 --> 00:23:36,799
on the mainstream?

584
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,200
Well, there is something that's holding

585
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:41,360
us back on that particular score about

586
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,919
naming those names who we haven't so far

587
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:45,600
named

588
00:23:43,919 --> 00:23:48,159
as a result of the work we've done to a

589
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,880
large extent. There are active criminal

590
00:23:48,159 --> 00:23:53,120
investigations going on and and we're

591
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,200
talking uh to abuse survivors who are

592
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:57,280
the key witnesses in those cases and in

593
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,120
some cases they only happened because

594
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,280
those abuse survivors came to us first

595
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:03,120
of all and and then ended up speaking to

596
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,120
the police and the police took them to

597
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:07,039
be credible because obviously in the

598
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:10,159
past people like that were often totally

599
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:12,240
dismissed and and there are active live

600
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:14,320
um police investigations into a whole

601
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,480
array of people and we obviously do not

602
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,919
want to do anything that could in any

603
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,520
way damage the prospects of justice. So

604
00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:23,919
there are two things that we're seeking

605
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,760
here. XRO's role is to expose the truth,

606
00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:28,080
but there's a there's a wider thing

607
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,080
about justice. Now I I would say you

608
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,600
can't get to justice without the truth.

609
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,840
But certainly the people who are talking

610
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,360
to us really want that end point to be

611
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,840
reached. So we have to be very very

612
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:40,480
careful that we don't do anything that

613
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:43,440
could damage that and and throughout the

614
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,760
three years we have very closely abided

615
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,400
by that. And in a word, will justice be

616
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:51,200
done?

617
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,279
I'm hoping at least we'll get the truth.

618
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,559
Well, I don't have my hat on, but I take

619
00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:58,240
it off to you. Fantastic. Exo News, Mark

620
00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:58,559
Watts, thanks for coming on the spot,

621
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,039
Nick.

622
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:02,039
Thank you very much.

623
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,559
And now it's your turn to tell us what

624
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,720
you think through the portals of social

625
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:12,400
media. What's rattling guy?

626
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:14,640
Henry Jackson Society. Who, what, why?

627
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,039
Ricardo Picasso answers just another

628
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,600
neocon think tank to tide the government

629
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:21,679
by until parliament finally becomes a

630
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,240
great big one. Then what happened to

631
00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:26,640
investigative journalism? Warren

632
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,640
Springthorp says the best are always

633
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,960
ostracized for thinking outside the

634
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:34,000
mainstream media. The rest are people

635
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,840
just happy to cottow the Murdoch and co

636
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,480
fear loss. And that's all that we've got

637
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,240
for this week

638
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,159
which alas means that's the end of the

639
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,120
show. You can stay in touch with us on

640
00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:45,200
Twitter at RT_Sputnik and on Facebook on

641
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,080
Sputnik on Russia Today. It's goodbye

642
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,000
from me Gatri

643
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,660
and from me George Galloway. It's been

644
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:53,759
marvelous.

645
00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:53,759
[Music]