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[Music]

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okay three I get

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[Music]

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happy New Year and welcome to Sputnik

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orbiting the world with me George

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Galloway and me gri now Mr churel

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described the former Soviet Union as a

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riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an

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enigma if so North Korea has to class as

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the most mind-twisting Rubik's Cube

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wrapped inside a paradox the most

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secretive country on the Earth has much

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to be secret about surrounded by host

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hostile nuclear armed bases sometimes

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known as countries Japan and South Korea

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which have previously invaded leaving up

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to onethird of all North Koreans dead

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and all within the lifetime of many

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watching this so no wonder North Korea

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has adopted the porcupine approach and

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bristles with many sharp Spears thus it

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will never be invaded again or so we

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hope power has passed apparently

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seamlessly from the great leader Kims to

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the dear leader Kim Jong e and now to

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his younger son Kim Jong-un I say

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apparently seamlessly because recently

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there has been a very domestic

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difficulty involving the young one and

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his uncle although they're Keen to point

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out that Uncle Jang is not only

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factionist filth and human scum he never

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actually really was an uncle joining me

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now to make sense of all this is

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Britain's foremost China and North Korea

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expert Keith Bennett who with me more

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than a decade ago was responsible for

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the establish

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50 years after we invaded Korea of

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diplomatic relations between the two

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countries Keith very good to see you

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again let's start with this question of

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the uncle they say actually he wasn't an

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uncle tell us how well in Korean terms

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the way they understand family relations

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he wouldn't be regarded as an uncle

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because he's not a blood relative of Kim

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Jong-un he was married to uh Kim

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jong-un's Aunt the uh the sister of Kim

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Jong-il although it's also understood uh

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that the two of them had not been living

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together uh for some years uh up to now

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so close but no cigar uh as as such uh

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but it is nonetheless quite an

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extraordinary turn of events every

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country has factional problems including

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our own uh but they don't always lead to

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someone being executed even in North

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Korea did they deal with them harshly

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how serious were the crimes that he

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committed you've made a very interesting

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point in that these things things don't

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always end up this way in in North Korea

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in fact you have to go back to the 1950s

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before you can find anything remotely

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comparable to what's happened and of

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course in that time many officials have

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have come up they've been promoted

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demoted and dismissed and indeed uh Jang

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himself was um dismissed from all his

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posts on at least two previous occasions

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o over the years and subsequently was

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brought back and given another chance

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and even uh give given more power it is

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on the face of it uh a very harsh uh uh

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outcome uh but it is actually an unusual

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one I think it's seems very harsh in a

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European context as you know there's

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only one country left in Europe that

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still maintains the death penalty

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although if there was a referendum in

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this country I think you and I both know

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the way that the popular vote would go

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on that particular one but the death

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penalty on the other hand is endemic in

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much of the rest of the world not least

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the United States of America

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and the United States government which

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obviously loses no opportunity to attack

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and and denigrate the government in

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North Korea said that the execution of

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Jang uh Illustrated the brutal uh and

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inhuman nature of the regime there now

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that that's all very well uh but this is

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the same us Administration who's

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Secretary of State Hillary Clinton quite

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probably the next Democrat candidate for

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president was able to gloat at the uh at

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the very public lynching of another head

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of state mam Gaddafi saying that we came

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we saw he died so I think you have to

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put some of the international reaction

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into that context as for the crimes he

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was of course accused uh and found

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guilty of treason and at least according

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to the official reports admitted the

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crimes it was said that he tried to get

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more and more of the national economy

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under his control with a view to

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Wrecking the economy ruining the

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people's living standards and ultimately

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staging a coup these would this would

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obviously be considered treason in any

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country particularly in North Korea

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which as as you said rightly sees itself

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as being in a state of Siege uh with a a

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situation still outstanding from the the

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Korean War which finished in 1953 only

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with an Armistice and still no peace

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treaty of course uh many people's only

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interest in Korea unlike yours and mine

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is whether or not the Situation's stable

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uh this is a a nuclear armed state with

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a huge military and so the question are

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Rises is Kim Jong-un securely in power

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well that's an inevitable question after

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what's happened uh but the fact that it

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has happened and things are going

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on to me gives greater Credence to the

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idea that things will be more stable now

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than than they were hitherto uh

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certainly since uh since the purging of

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Jan kimjong and has kept up a very

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hectic uh program of all sorts of public

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engagements and everything else in

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pongyang has been business as normal one

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of his now regular visitors is a good

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friend of mine Dennis Rodman the giant

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American basketball player he seems to

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have fallen in love with North Korea

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tell us he does and uh I guess that uh

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North North Korea sometimes has that

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effect on people not least because the

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reality of the country and although like

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every country it has its problems but

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the reality of the country is not the

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same as the Hostile uh media

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presentation and indeed sometimes

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the Hostile media presentation does

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people a favor when they go there

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because maybe their expectations are so

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low that uh things are inevitably a lot

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better than than what they were

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expecting but I find that Dennis Rodman

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Kim Jong-un uh relationship friendship

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indeed Dennis Rodman famously said on

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his first meeting in to a full Stadium

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you have a friend for life and he seems

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to be keeping to his word I find that

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friendship very interesting on a number

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of levels it certainly shows that from

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the top in North Korea from the very top

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and contrary to what we are told in the

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west that certainly at least on a peop

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to- People level uh North Korea is open

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to having normal and indeed friendly

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relations with other countries including

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uh the United States of America another

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thing it builds feeds into is the long

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history of a relationship between

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African-Americans and North Korea uh

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Kims uh the present Leader's grandfather

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was a great friend of the Black Panther

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Party and it also shows Kim jongan is

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very interested in sports we we know

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that but it shows a a great appreciation

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of um the fact that sport can be used to

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break down barriers and build

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International understanding we all know

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about that uh how Nelson Mandela used

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that with the Rugby World Cup thanks to

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the film Invictus uh we can recall the

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pingpong diplomacy that opened the door

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uh to relations again between the United

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States and China and some viewers will

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remember the 1966 World Cup where at at

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least in middlesbor uh the North Koreans

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huge

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hit I'm sorry to tell you I remember

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only two well they beat Italy 1 nil they

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were 30-0 up against Portugal before the

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great usabo uh overhauled that and uh

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Portugal ran out winners in the end but

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the North Korean football team in 1966

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at the World Cup were a huge hit but

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aren't the ladies team of the football

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in North Korea very good oh they're

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excellent and uh amongst North men it

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seems to be a mixture of half admiration

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and half um I get bit mild jealousy that

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um North Koreans love football and uh

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the fact that they've been in two World

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Cups not withstanding they feel though

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that the men are not really such good

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footballers but that the ladies are are

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brilliant uh they the North Korean

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women's team uh did exceptionally well

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in the Asian cup and of course they were

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particular they were particularly proud

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that they beat the United States

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obviously has great them great resonance

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and uh last year the uh ladies football

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team from Middlesboro who all went out

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uh who who were all amateurs went out

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and played some exhibition and

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Friendship Games in in North Korea

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against the North Korean ladies by all

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accounts the M middlesbor ladies had a

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fantastic time and I think the North

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Koreans are trying to send their ladies

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back here on a reciprocal visit and what

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about the state of the children what

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about the education and the health

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record

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well I think if you put this into

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historical perspective uh before 1945

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Korea was a Japanese colony and when

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Korea was liberated the country had just

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a handful of University graduates so all

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of this work began from scratch and the

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very first factory that was built in

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North Korea after the Japanese were

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expelled was a Pencil Factory which I

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think gives an indication of the

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priorities North Korea was one of the

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very first countries if not the first in

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Asia to achieve uh 100% literacy and

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they've always attached huge importance

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to to education and and to healthcare uh

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just one year ago Kim Jong-un made a

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policy announcement which is in the

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process of being implemented which will

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institute uh 12year Universal and of

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course free education uh in in Korea and

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besides the schooling system you can go

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to places like the school Children's

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Palace uh in pongyang where some of the

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facil ities that are available for

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children for after school activities

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would really be the Envy of of eon and

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Harrow of course not every educational

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establishment is like that throughout

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the country not by any means but it

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gives an indication of of what they're

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uh aspiring to I think the other context

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in which we have to put this is that

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from the mid 1990s onward we had a

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series of economic difficulties in in

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North Korea which were occasioned by the

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collapse of the Union which uh the

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Soviet Union and the other East European

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countries in ComiCon had accounted for

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the overwhelming bulk of um North

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Korea's trade and many of the inputs in

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fertilizer and raw materials for their

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economy were dependent on that suddenly

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that was taken away and they had a whole

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series of natural disasters year after

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year floods droughts typhoons and so on

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and these have inevitably had a a

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negative uh impact on on education and

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particularly on Health Care but

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throughout that time unlike in other

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countries including much wealthier

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countries than North Korea education up

276
00:11:36,839 --> 00:11:41,760
to University level has remained free

277
00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:45,800
and all types of Health Care uh have

278
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:47,560
have remained free and the the head of

279
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,680
the UN World Health Organization a

280
00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:52,880
Chinese lady from Hong Kong Dr Margaret

281
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:54,600
Chan did a very interesting report on

282
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,120
healthc care in in North Korea which is

283
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which is well worth reading which

284
00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,800
acknowledges the problems but at the

285
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,839
same time points out

286
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,240
that in many respects North Korea Still

287
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Remains a model for developing countries

288
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,560
in terms of universal provision of of

289
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health care which remains something to

290
00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:12,920
which they're politically committed even

291
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if there are some problems in delivery

292
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,120
at the moment well Keith we're going to

293
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have to leave it there but it's time you

294
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,560
and I made a return visit to pongyang

295
00:12:19,279 --> 00:12:22,959
we'll have to go and check it out we'll

296
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:25,079
ask Dennis to come with us we'll have a

297
00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:27,519
wh of a Time Keith Bennett thanks very

298
00:12:25,079 --> 00:12:28,680
much for joining us on the Sputnik after

299
00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:30,800
the break we'll be looking at the

300
00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:33,440
strange and sudden death of the world's

301
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,639
youngest country South Sudan we'll be

302
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right

303
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[Music]

304
00:12:38,279 --> 00:12:43,199
back welcome back to Sputnik now as you

305
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,399
know perhaps I'm not a big fan of

306
00:12:43,199 --> 00:12:47,800
breaking up countries at least not where

307
00:12:45,399 --> 00:12:49,800
there is no pressing need to do so if I

308
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:52,519
believe that Korea is one and should be

309
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,199
reunited and Ireland ditto it follows

310
00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:57,399
that I was a bitter opponent of the

311
00:12:54,199 --> 00:12:59,519
partition of Sudan which in my lifetime

312
00:12:57,399 --> 00:13:01,880
was a single country bigger than Western

313
00:12:59,519 --> 00:13:04,519
Europe and ruled from Westminster where

314
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:07,240
I have sat for more than 25 years South

315
00:13:04,519 --> 00:13:09,560
Sudan left taking 80% of the country's

316
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:12,079
oil wealth with it other separatist

317
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:15,000
struggles continue in the north and now

318
00:13:12,079 --> 00:13:16,959
South Sudan the world's youngest country

319
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,480
has itself Fallen apart and the sides

320
00:13:16,959 --> 00:13:20,920
are murdering each other with gay

321
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,320
abandon and all on top of one of the

322
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world's richest oil fields joining us

323
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,560
now to discuss the question of what's

324
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,480
going on in Sudan is a very bright young

325
00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:31,839
man of my acquaint and I academic

326
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,040
researcher studying African conflicts

327
00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:36,320
and himself the son of one of the

328
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:40,000
historic leaders of the oldest Communist

329
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:42,720
party in Africa that of Sudan he is

330
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,920
Ahmed cabalo Ahmed welcome to the show

331
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:48,079
let's start first of all with South

332
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,320
Sudan it has only just been born now it

333
00:13:48,079 --> 00:13:52,480
looks as if it might be dead what's your

334
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,279
analysis there's divisions in the South

335
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,279
that have never really been addressed

336
00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:58,560
and these divisions were instigated by

337
00:13:56,279 --> 00:13:59,759
the north for the whole divide and Rule

338
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:03,920
policy that they learned from the

339
00:13:59,759 --> 00:14:06,199
colonial era and the the actions of the

340
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,480
president of South Sudan have have tried

341
00:14:06,199 --> 00:14:11,240
to take it from uh the new democracy to

342
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:13,240
a dictatorship he dismissed his whole

343
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,120
cabinet he dismissed the vice president

344
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,120
over a conspiracy of a coup but there's

345
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,519
actually been no evidence of that and

346
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:22,519
now there is effectively not a coup but

347
00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:24,519
a revolution led by the dismissed vice

348
00:14:22,519 --> 00:14:27,240
president who's who and what's what on

349
00:14:24,519 --> 00:14:30,000
either side well the vice president um

350
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:32,079
mha is from the newer Tri

351
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,360
and the president is from the Denker

352
00:14:32,079 --> 00:14:36,560
tribe the Denker is the most populated

353
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,639
tribe in in South Sudan and the new is

354
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,839
the second most populate they've had

355
00:14:38,639 --> 00:14:44,199
Conflict for over 20 years now there's

356
00:14:40,839 --> 00:14:46,639
been massacres on both sides and and the

357
00:14:44,199 --> 00:14:48,480
tension was never really addressed they

358
00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:49,800
had a common enemy cartoon but now

359
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,800
that's gone they're going at each

360
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,839
other's throats and is it just tribal

361
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,759
any politics involved there is there is

362
00:14:53,839 --> 00:14:57,800
definitely politics involved it's about

363
00:14:55,759 --> 00:15:00,079
power and resources and who can get a a

364
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:03,199
piece of the pie like like he said Sudan

365
00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:05,600
is is is a very oil rich country and in

366
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:08,079
in any African State oil can either be a

367
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,839
curse or a gift and what we're seeing

368
00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:14,120
it's it's turned out to be the former

369
00:15:09,839 --> 00:15:19,000
80% of Sudan's oil went with South Sudan

370
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:22,000
the big oil companies moved in uh other

371
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:24,440
uh actors like Israel for example Keen

372
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:29,440
to cause forther problems in the north

373
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:32,079
moved in uh heavily into the capital um

374
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,839
are is there any big Power involvement

375
00:15:32,079 --> 00:15:36,639
in this new struggle between these two

376
00:15:34,839 --> 00:15:38,480
personalities all all the big Power

377
00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:40,600
supported the separate movement for

378
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,800
because the oil was there yeah it was

379
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,759
obvious South Sudan is a product of

380
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,199
geopolitical um differences between

381
00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:49,600
China and the United States China's got

382
00:15:47,199 --> 00:15:50,800
its hands in the north um the United

383
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,519
States wants to get his hands in the

384
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:56,360
South and that's why it's been working

385
00:15:52,519 --> 00:15:58,480
on separation from around the late 80s

386
00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:01,839
however the former great leader of the

387
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:04,440
SP M John garon didn't want separation

388
00:16:01,839 --> 00:16:06,680
he wanted a new Sudan where people were

389
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,399
equal under the law and regardless of

390
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:12,519
ethnicity tribes and region however he

391
00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:15,240
he his untimely death took away that

392
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:17,079
Vision one year ago exactly me and

393
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,319
George were in Sudan in harun and

394
00:16:17,079 --> 00:16:21,800
omdurman and everything seemed very

395
00:16:19,319 --> 00:16:23,600
stable and very beautiful indeed and now

396
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:26,279
few months later there was we saw all

397
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,839
this unrest going on and even in the

398
00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:30,519
north the were bodies on the street

399
00:16:27,839 --> 00:16:33,040
indeed we had to help with you and your

400
00:16:30,519 --> 00:16:35,199
family get your father out of prison

401
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:38,319
just a few months after we'd left uh

402
00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:41,079
Cartoon what's that all about if we can

403
00:16:38,319 --> 00:16:43,440
understand the split inside the South

404
00:16:41,079 --> 00:16:44,720
what's the split inside the north when

405
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,120
the South split it took a lot of the

406
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,360
rever you that the north relied on and

407
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,519
and that's kind of put a bandage over

408
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,079
the the Deep scar that that we've seen

409
00:16:51,519 --> 00:16:54,600
in the South Military dictatorship

410
00:16:53,079 --> 00:16:56,279
that's been going on now for over 20

411
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,560
years and the people are unhappy they

412
00:16:56,279 --> 00:16:59,880
want a new

413
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,800
Sudan people of my age have seen nothing

414
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,199
but a military dictatorship they've got

415
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,880
better visions of a new San better

416
00:17:03,199 --> 00:17:06,600
Visions for their children and there was

417
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,480
this political atmosphere political

418
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,959
tension in the air and all it needed was

419
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,760
that spark and the rise in oil prices

420
00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:15,240
gas prices price in bread overnight

421
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,319
caused that spark and people out in the

422
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,679
street and my father was arrested just

423
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:22,000
because he wanted to exercise his right

424
00:17:19,679 --> 00:17:24,360
to assembly and and and and to voice his

425
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,959
opinion about politics and Democratic

426
00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:28,120
change so they arrested him without

427
00:17:25,959 --> 00:17:29,440
charge for security reasons I mean they

428
00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:31,600
arrested absolutely everyone on the

429
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,880
street the prisons were full women were

430
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,600
away from their children so there was

431
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,799
effectively there was no one to be out

432
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,760
on the streets protesting but all it

433
00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:41,520
needs is that spark again all it needs

434
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,400
is well what's the spark going to be

435
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:47,840
because uh I I've met the president

436
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:50,720
bashier uh I must say I found him uh

437
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:53,080
quite impressive but he absolutely

438
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:56,200
pledged to me that he would not run

439
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,039
again uh for another presidential term

440
00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,120
is he going back on that now he's filled

441
00:17:58,039 --> 00:18:02,440
up his pocket so it's it's time time to

442
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,960
move On's he's made his money there's

443
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,120
reported there's nowhere he can move on

444
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,919
he's subject to Interpol warrants he's

445
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,840
staying in Sudan that's all he can do

446
00:18:08,919 --> 00:18:13,000
but he's still traveling he's no one no

447
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,840
one's um taking that arrest Point

448
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,039
seriously no one's took it upon himself

449
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,799
to arrest him he's still traveling

450
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:19,919
freely he was even talking about going

451
00:18:17,799 --> 00:18:22,559
to the United States so you think he

452
00:18:19,919 --> 00:18:24,760
will keep his promise not to run again

453
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:27,640
in which case what happens at the next

454
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,280
election it's it's as you like to say

455
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,039
two cheeks of the same back if someone

456
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:34,240
replaces him it'll be the same policy

457
00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:35,919
the same the same um serving interest of

458
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,919
the few fing up their bank accounts and

459
00:18:35,919 --> 00:18:41,600
not working for the interest of the

460
00:18:36,919 --> 00:18:44,960
sanese people yes but uh bashier has

461
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:47,400
some special uh talents he has a certain

462
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:50,640
Charisma and he had a certain position

463
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:53,960
in the military and in the sort of

464
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:56,720
paramilitary uh party which he he runs

465
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:59,280
I'm not sure there's another uh bashier

466
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:01,240
I mean it seems to me that uh Basher

467
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:04,200
will either change his mind and run

468
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:08,480
again because there isn't an alternative

469
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:11,600
or that when he goes the dam will break

470
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:14,120
and uh maybe some kind of revolutionary

471
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,520
process will emerge in Sudan well let's

472
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:18,720
hope so that's I mean I've been waiting

473
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,679
for it all my life for for a different

474
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,360
sedan M and I hope I hope you're right I

475
00:19:21,679 --> 00:19:25,760
hope he steps down and and the Dam

476
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:27,240
breaks and the people rise up and try

477
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,000
try get some Freedom that they haven't

478
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:32,240
seen since the late ' 80s separation of

479
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,840
North and South was one thing but there

480
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,679
are actually a lot of people now

481
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,520
fighting to separate themselves out from

482
00:19:36,679 --> 00:19:41,679
the rest of the people in the north

483
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,480
places like darur and other uh struggles

484
00:19:41,679 --> 00:19:46,120
are they really separatist struggles do

485
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:49,000
they really want to establish another

486
00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:50,799
country or can this somehow be resolved

487
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,080
without that I think it can be resolved

488
00:19:50,799 --> 00:19:54,760
the Justice equality movement in Dara

489
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,280
actually not asking for a separate state

490
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,880
they're just asking to be involved all

491
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,880
the decisions are made in cartoon the

492
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,919
resources are directed in cartoon they

493
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,400
feel left out marginalized and it's been

494
00:20:02,919 --> 00:20:06,840
going on since the colonial period they

495
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,360
they want to be involved they want the

496
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,200
same opportunities that the people in

497
00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:12,679
cartoon get people have a vested

498
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,880
interest in in Breaking Sudan up do you

499
00:20:12,679 --> 00:20:18,159
think that there is any way that the big

500
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,280
Powers will allow Sudan to remain united

501
00:20:18,159 --> 00:20:21,840
we need somebody with with the same

502
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,679
narrative that John Garen had the

503
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,720
Justice equality movement of promoting

504
00:20:23,679 --> 00:20:27,640
of a new Sudan that benefits people

505
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,640
Sudan has long been divided along

506
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,360
geographical lines tribal line ethnic

507
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,600
line well did the British uh Empire made

508
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:37,799
sure of that I mean they they were the

509
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:42,080
first ones to as it were as as it were

510
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:44,640
bifurcate the country uh not uh in state

511
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,240
governance terms like languages the the

512
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,640
people in the South they were not allow

513
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,080
not allowed to learn Arabic yeah yeah

514
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,120
and there was trade and travel

515
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,159
restricted there's effectively

516
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:56,520
politically socially segregated from one

517
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:58,360
another so it's a new year uh what's

518
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,840
going to happen in South Sudan now I

519
00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:03,360
mean the big powers are trying to bring

520
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,880
the fighting under control they say the

521
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:08,400
United Nations involved even the Marines

522
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:11,320
the US Marines have been there is this

523
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:13,960
going to be allout war or will the talks

524
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,000
in Adis Ababa uh somehow bring it under

525
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,720
control well the upcoming peace talks

526
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,960
are fundamental for the future of Sudan

527
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,559
South Sudan they need to put the

528
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,000
political differences aside because if

529
00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:24,919
they don't we could see a bloody Civil

530
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,440
War like like the ones we've seen

531
00:21:24,919 --> 00:21:29,720
Somalia and Congo and Sudan could be

532
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,880
South Sudan could be divided again

533
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,480
furthermore the beyond the peace talks

534
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,440
there's great challenges ahead for South

535
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,000
Sudan the ethnic divisions that have

536
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,640
been prevalent for the for over 20 years

537
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,760
need to be addressed in some kind of

538
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,799
reconciliation process otherwise these

539
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,559
wars will keep happening over and over

540
00:21:43,799 --> 00:21:47,120
again and South Sudan will change its

541
00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:49,159
status from the world's youngest state

542
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,159
to the world's youngest failed State

543
00:21:49,159 --> 00:21:53,960
Ahmed Cabello thanks for bringing us up

544
00:21:51,159 --> 00:21:56,120
to date on the Sputnik thanks for having

545
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,000
[Music]

546
00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:01,120
me well now it's your turn through our

547
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:05,559
social media review coming through our

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portal rtor Sputnik gy what's rattling

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the kitten says what do you think about

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kitner being on the new two pound coin

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00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,760
any thoughts it's an outrage and if it

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00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,840
had come before Parliament I would have

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laid an objection to it kitner wasn't

554
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just the Butcher of the omor man in the

555
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Sudan he didn't just according to Mr

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Churchill allow his soldiers to dig up

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the grave of the m

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cut off the head from the skeleton and

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00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:35,960
play football with it he actually caused

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the deaths of hundreds of thousands of

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British people in the first World War I

562
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mean how much blood do you have to

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actually shed to get yourself on a

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British 2 coin taes tkes uh replies to

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my question what is happening in Sudan

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says Round Up The Usual Suspects it's

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all about oil and arms exporting

568
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countries I kind of feel that I mean uh

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Ahmed was very clear that uh it's been

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misgoverned there's been some damned

571
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:08,440
awful dictators in Sudan no doubt but I

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think that the very sight of such a huge

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African country with so much potential

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and so much potential wealth in the oil

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and gas fines underneath it was just

576
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waiting to be picked off by those who

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make a living and a really good one out

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of breaking such countries up you know

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what I wonder and some some of the

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tweets as well where are George cloy

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Angelina Julie now have has their

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contract finished to pop up well that's

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a good point because it became

584
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especially an American celebrity cause

585
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the breakup uh of Sudan and a lot of

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black people I think were misled into

587
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believing that uh somehow the conflict

588
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in Sudan was between nonblack Arabs and

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black Africans whilst all sudanes are

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00:23:53,679 --> 00:23:59,000
African most Sudanese are Muslim right

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and it ought to have been possible for

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Muslims and Christians and animists to

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coexist within the same state especially

594
00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:08,960
a state with this potential about Korea

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00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:10,919
Joe Cook says post World War II Korean

596
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,760
Peninsula partitioned the South living

597
00:24:10,919 --> 00:24:16,320
on the US Le Imperial design the north

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00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,000
now suffering constant us

599
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:22,279
interference well it is uh I mean North

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00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:25,640
Korea no doubt has also uh had its share

601
00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:28,559
of bad governance no doubt uh at all

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00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:32,279
about that I mean if this Uncle Jang was

603
00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:35,840
so bad how come Kim Jong-il

604
00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:38,120
appointed Po in the first place but uh

605
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:41,039
there's no doubt that uh the United

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00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:43,960
States in killing such a huge number of

607
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:47,159
North Koreans in putting so many nuclear

608
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:50,159
weapons into Japan the ancient enemy of

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00:24:47,159 --> 00:24:52,240
the Koreans has contributed to a Siege

610
00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:56,240
mentality on the peninsula at least in

611
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:58,200
the northern part Vinnie Irish says I

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00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,640
think it's a country run by a dictator

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00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,880
but I do not view him as an imminent

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00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:06,559
threat to the West no there's absolutely

615
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no question of North Korea being a

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threat to the West the threat is the

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00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:16,559
other way around but whether Kim Young

618
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:18,760
un with the emphasis on young age 30 is

619
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really in command of events now we'll

620
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,960
have to wait and see Keith was not

621
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,360
ambivalent about that but he wasn't

622
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:29,480
absolutely certain either so we'll have

623
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to keep a watching brief on that well

624
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,880
that's all the the tweets that we got

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00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:35,159
for this week which is a Pity because

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00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,480
that means that's all the time we've got

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00:25:35,159 --> 00:25:40,159
do keep the tweets coming on rtor

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00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:44,840
Sputnik that's it for me gatri and from

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me George Galloway it's been marvelous

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[Music]

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[Music]