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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me Gary

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there's nothing but sex and drugs on the

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television anymore but then I only

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watched the Parliament channel Lord

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sucking plassey drugs of the naked

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torsos of prostitutes while she had to

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be naked the Lord was wearing her

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underwear this is as it happens the

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lighter laughable site in a different

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universe of darkness lies the child sex

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abuse scandal in which it is already

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clear that a substantial section of our

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rulers were unspeakable perverts preying

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on the most vulnerable people children

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without parents laughably describe this

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being in the care of the authorities who

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were then abusing them none of this

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would have been known but for a handful

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of dedicated courageous journalists

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foremost amongst those in this

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generation is mark watts of x oro news

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of Fleet Street London the last outpost

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of investigative journalism who'd have

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thunk it mark thanks for joining us we

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brought you back more quickly than we

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might otherwise have done because since

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we last spoke and indeed in the days

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hours after we last spoke all kinds of

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new developments in this story emerged

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kindly summarize those yes your item is

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amazing what's happened since we last

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spoke George and perhaps the most

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significant thing was the Cabinet Office

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managed to find some documents stuff

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down a wardrobe somewhere that had been

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lost despite a a massive review into

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documents relevant to child sex abuse

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they weren't turned up in that review

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they turned up a bit later as a

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consequence of journalists pressing

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pressing the government over over these

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files and though these files were

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significant because it turns out that

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these files about child sex abuse

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related to all sorts of people in

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positions of power in Britain and in

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particular and we don't actually know

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what's in them because they haven't been

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released but we have got glimpses from

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what's been disclosed so far in

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ticular there was a communication from

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Santa need of who was the head of the

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security service mi5 writing to the then

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cabinet secretary Sir Robert Armstrong

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in which they were talking about an MP

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apparently named but the name has not

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been publicly released who has a quote

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spawn Shan for small boys and the mi5

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boss warned the cabinet secretary that

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while the MP concerned denies the

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allegations and and that denial is

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accepted that the there's a far greater

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risk as he puts it for political

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embarrassment rather than security

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concerns and by the way nothing seems to

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have been said about the concerns about

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the underlying issue namely the sexual

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abuse of children just before you move

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on from that because I know there are

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many other developments wasn't this

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straight out of Yes Minister we had the

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Home Office stole what lay denying that

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any such documents were in their

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possessions but they were in fact in the

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possession of the cabinet offices it was

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a it was a non-denial denial the

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government had these documents it's just

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that the wrong Department was being

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asked if they had them at beggars belief

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doesn't it that the British civil

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servant service famous throughout the

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world for their punctilious ness and

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deficiency really lost these things well

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yes but it's even worse than yes

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minister because not only whether

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documents that turned up in another

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Department it also turned out there were

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relevant documents in the home office

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too and when the review was done by an

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outside person into relevant documents

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at the time he said that he extended his

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search beyond the immediate apartments

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so he had made some attempt to get

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material beyond the Home Office so it is

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it is just extraordinary this this

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situation it seems as though these rods

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are unbelievable well it happens and

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we're still waiting to find out exactly

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what's in these documents we know that

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they they're supposed to be being passed

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the police in case they're relevant to

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any of their current live investigations

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that supposed to be passed to the

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overarching inquiry that was set up one

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other crucial elements about these paid

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is that some of these papers relate

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specifically to King Korra this is a

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Children's Home in Belfast as was and

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there's been a desperate attempt to keep

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kincora out of the overarching choir

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while they keep Northern Ireland out of

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the overarching inquiry it'll be an

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overarching inquiry that is in fact not

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overarching as in essence and it's quite

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clear to ask given the stories that

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we've done on xray that kincora is key

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to this overarching well I worked a

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private eye when Colin Wallace the

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former British intelligence man was

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regularly talking about kincora but it

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never really broke out of private eye

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but these new documents take it into the

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mainstream Donnelly what might have

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happened that kincora what's alleged to

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have happened there one thing that's

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interesting is that just before those

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documents emerged we'd run a story on

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Exxaro based on the testimony of an

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abuse survivor who identified all sorts

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of people as having abused him people in

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positions of power but also people who

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he said were connected with the cover-up

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but he didn't want to go into detail

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about what exactly their roles were and

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it's very interesting if you look back

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at the story we did many of these are

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the names that pop out three four days

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later in these lost documents that have

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just been found miraculously discovered

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in in the as you say down the back of

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filing cabinets and if you believe that

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you'll believe anything and I don't I'm

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certain that horrific though the abuse

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undoubtedly Wars will come to just how

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horrific in a minute the cover-up is

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going to be more disastrous for the

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ruling elite in Britain than the actual

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crimes themselves you agree with that

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well I think both I think that it's a so

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off the scale I mean it's impossible to

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say which is worse I mean the actual

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abuse it is such an astonishing abuse of

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power to be in a position of authority

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in order to access boys and girls it's

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both don't forget children under age and

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to sexually abused them and have your

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and your position allows you to do that

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that is off the scale in terms of

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traffic though moving them around the

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surgery absolutely but then that the

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entire state conspired it seems to cover

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this up and win police officers as we've

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discussed before where

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on the trail of this in the past they

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were stopped from following the evidence

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and you know much their disgust

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oftentimes the sexual abuse is horrific

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as alleged but when we start talking

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about children being murdered by the

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abusers kind of moves into the realms of

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a plot that if you submitted to

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Hollywood might be rejected as

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far-fetched and yeah there's good

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evidence emerging that that's what

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happened well that's right there's a

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particular abuse survivor who came to us

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that extra talk to us first and in fact

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going back to your introduction he

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wasn't from a children's home he entered

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this world of abuse through his father

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who happened to be connected to it and

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you know he was abused by by his account

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by various powerful people and witnessed

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in over the course of you know years

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three separate times when other boys

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were murdered and where we are now is

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the police came to us and said we would

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like to speak to the were anonymous

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witnesses who were talking to us and we

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said well we'll pass on your request but

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you know we don't know how much hope

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quite frame because unfortunately a lot

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of abuse survivors really don't trust

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the police and Nick not his real name so

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much so lots were surprised decided he

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would talk to the police and that is

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evolved into this investigation

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specifically into the three murders and

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the police are now on the record as

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having said that they regard Nick's

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accounts unbelievable as it seems on the

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face of it they regarded as credible

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there are ongoing trials now that we

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can't refer to I'm told there are

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imminent arrests of members of

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parliament of former members of

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parliament and of serving members of the

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House of Lords I asked you this last

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time it's a bit unfair as a question

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because how could you know how could I

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know how could any of us know but is

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there any precedent for

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us there certainly isn't in Britain

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we've agreed i think it's the biggest

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scandal ever in britain but other any

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other legislators anywhere in the world

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any other parliaments anywhere in the

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world where such a thing could have

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happened has happened well if Varian you

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asked that because we had x-ray

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obviously based in the UK and although

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we do do international stories we focus

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particularly on on this scandal in the

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UK because it as we described discussed

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before it is britain's biggest ever

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scandal and we are contacted by a lot of

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people overseas who keep telling us that

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there are parallels within their own

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countries and and you know i hope we

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will come to that III think jenny just

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name a British disease it may not just

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be a British disease no no on the

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subject of the British disease

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Australian television has done more than

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any other certainly broadcast media in

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Britain with the exception of James

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O'Brien on LBC who's been a good

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platform for you and X oral news and has

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done a lot of work in exposing this but

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most of the British mainstream media has

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pretty dismal a failed over decades

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suddenly on 60 minutes the flagship

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australian broadcasting corporation

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television show we have what ought been

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on the BBC or ought to have been on

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channel 4 on itv how do you compute that

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what is it is rather curious situation

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and and the 60 minutes program was a

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very powerful piece of television

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obviously for it for its audience it

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didn't actually reveal anything new but

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to its audience it would all of comers

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new and unbelievably shocking and

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disgraceful and so on and it's really

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pointed up the issue why is it that ho

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british broadcaster has made a current

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affairs programme of that nature now i

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mean i have to say that i wouldn't rule

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out that possibly happening we are

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approached a lot of the time what we do

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know is that panorama as we reveal some

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while ago was set on the course of

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trying to debunk the whole story and say

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it was all ridiculous and this is a

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conspiracy and this is the this is the

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broadcaster that game is jimmy savile

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and it seems others sadly sure at all I

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mean beyond belief isn't it yes

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unfortunately mind my feelings about the

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BBC render it not beyond belief but but

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that's another matter look we caught the

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zeitgeist last time we had you within

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days story got much bigger what are you

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predicting over the next days and weeks

276
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well in a way you touched on it I I

277
00:11:55,650 --> 00:12:02,600
think that we are going to see more

278
00:11:59,430 --> 00:12:06,810
arrests there's a particular

279
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:09,390
investigation into a ring of alleged

280
00:12:06,810 --> 00:12:11,040
perpetrators relating to a girl a woman

281
00:12:09,390 --> 00:12:12,000
called esta Baker's come forward to talk

282
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,460
about that the police are investigating

283
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,740
it in fact they've made the first arrest

284
00:12:14,460 --> 00:12:17,790
not of a prominent person but they've

285
00:12:16,740 --> 00:12:19,980
made the first arrest in that

286
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investigation so that investigation is

287
00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:26,550
clearly proceeding apace I can tell you

288
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:29,090
that in the months ahead there's going

289
00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:33,060
to be a lot more even more shocking than

290
00:12:29,090 --> 00:12:36,390
we have exposed already well that sounds

291
00:12:33,060 --> 00:12:38,760
pretty shocking mark thanks for coming

292
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back on the sputnik I have a feeling it

293
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,560
might not be long before i'm asking you

294
00:12:41,490 --> 00:12:46,080
to come back ok but thanks for the time

295
00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:47,910
being coming up after this break why

296
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does the light seemed so bright at the

297
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:52,560
end of the tunnel thousands in France

298
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:56,630
are storming not the Bastille but the

299
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:56,630
eurotunnel defenses stay tuned

300
00:12:58,540 --> 00:13:00,600
you

301
00:13:06,220 --> 00:13:11,480
welcome back to Sputnik the world is

302
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awash with refugees fleeing the Four

303
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:18,050
Horsemen of the Apocalypse war famine

304
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poverty and disease the unluckiest take

305
00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:23,300
to the high seas in rusting leaking

306
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boats others fan out across a Europe

307
00:13:23,300 --> 00:13:29,330
already buckling under its own economic

308
00:13:25,340 --> 00:13:31,640
woes some some thousands actually camp

309
00:13:29,330 --> 00:13:34,640
out in cali hoping to hit you right on a

310
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,710
wagon or a train bound for britain it's

311
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,900
all manna from heaven of course for

312
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:41,450
right-wing politicians and media outlets

313
00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:43,850
and euro folks who get the chance to

314
00:13:41,450 --> 00:13:45,500
kick the French as well joining us now

315
00:13:43,850 --> 00:13:47,720
is one of the few british-based

316
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:50,750
journalists trying to put all this in

317
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:53,720
context nabila Graham Danny nabila

318
00:13:50,750 --> 00:13:56,750
welcome to the show you're following

319
00:13:53,720 --> 00:14:01,190
this story closely being half French and

320
00:13:56,750 --> 00:14:03,830
also from North Africa in origin so you

321
00:14:01,190 --> 00:14:06,589
have a as a well a double handle on this

322
00:14:03,830 --> 00:14:09,460
here's my take that the British media

323
00:14:06,589 --> 00:14:12,980
and politicians are deliberately

324
00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:15,940
hysterically amplifying the scale of

325
00:14:12,980 --> 00:14:18,380
this problem that there are refugees

326
00:14:15,940 --> 00:14:21,170
everywhere but they're not all headed

327
00:14:18,380 --> 00:14:24,230
for Britain and the idea that is given

328
00:14:21,170 --> 00:14:26,839
that there's a huge army like Hitler's

329
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:29,180
invasion force just waiting on the other

330
00:14:26,839 --> 00:14:31,700
side of the fence is completely

331
00:14:29,180 --> 00:14:34,550
fictional what's your take on that well

332
00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:36,920
I think there is some truth in what you

333
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:38,480
in what you say but i think the british

334
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,720
government is also rightly concerned

335
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:43,460
about what is effectively a huge problem

336
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,250
nowadays it's one of the biggest

337
00:14:43,460 --> 00:14:49,940
problems of our time and it is migration

338
00:14:46,250 --> 00:14:52,250
and it's also often linked with security

339
00:14:49,940 --> 00:14:53,870
issues and that's the approach of the

340
00:14:52,250 --> 00:14:56,420
British government I'm afraid it's time

341
00:14:53,870 --> 00:14:58,280
the two together and that's what's

342
00:14:56,420 --> 00:15:02,110
creating the scare mongering behind

343
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:05,030
stories that involve security and indeed

344
00:15:02,110 --> 00:15:07,880
movements of people and the French

345
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:09,920
coverage of the migrants issue has been

346
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,990
pretty much the same even though in

347
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,700
France you actually have a nominally

348
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:14,990
socialist government which is

349
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:17,300
exceptionally reaction

350
00:15:14,990 --> 00:15:20,029
when it comes to immigration issues so I

351
00:15:17,300 --> 00:15:23,300
feel that the approach in both country

352
00:15:20,029 --> 00:15:25,010
has been one of a huge concern because

353
00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:28,520
in the end we are dealing with up to

354
00:15:25,010 --> 00:15:32,149
five thousand migrants in Calais have

355
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:36,020
visited the camps myself and they used

356
00:15:32,149 --> 00:15:38,350
to be a sangat settlement before big

357
00:15:36,020 --> 00:15:40,940
Center for Refugees with all sorts of

358
00:15:38,350 --> 00:15:43,160
you know people involved in looking

359
00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:46,220
after the migrants from the health there

360
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:48,380
were charitable organizations available

361
00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:51,440
as well now it's all turned into a big

362
00:15:48,380 --> 00:15:54,350
they call it the jungle as it were a big

363
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:57,560
settlement quite unruly as well and

364
00:15:54,350 --> 00:16:01,190
where people are very vulnerable sangat

365
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,899
was dismantled in 2002 that was welcomed

366
00:16:01,190 --> 00:16:05,360
by the British authorities because the

367
00:16:02,899 --> 00:16:07,940
idea was that it would make the place

368
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,640
less attractive to migrants but clearly

369
00:16:07,940 --> 00:16:12,740
this hasn't been the case 5,000 door is

370
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,390
a very small number of people were

371
00:16:12,740 --> 00:16:17,510
talking about our country Britain where

372
00:16:14,390 --> 00:16:22,040
hundreds of thousands are immigrating

373
00:16:17,510 --> 00:16:25,250
here every year the the 5,000 is being

374
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:27,680
painted as our multitude it isn't yes I

375
00:16:25,250 --> 00:16:29,360
mean in if you place that in the context

376
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,339
of movements of people around the world

377
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,620
I mean that has always been the case

378
00:16:31,339 --> 00:16:36,200
historically people have always moved

379
00:16:33,620 --> 00:16:40,029
from their own country especially when

380
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:44,089
they're living devastated societies and

381
00:16:40,029 --> 00:16:45,860
people are desperate to you know start

382
00:16:44,089 --> 00:16:49,839
afresh as it were and then looking for a

383
00:16:45,860 --> 00:16:53,209
place to go where they can be safe and

384
00:16:49,839 --> 00:16:56,720
prosper as it were in a new society as

385
00:16:53,209 --> 00:17:00,890
many hundreds of thousands British

386
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:04,339
people did otherwise Australia Africa

387
00:17:00,890 --> 00:17:06,620
Canada the United States would still be

388
00:17:04,339 --> 00:17:09,079
populated by their original people maybe

389
00:17:06,620 --> 00:17:11,420
that would have been for the best one

390
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:13,400
point that is missed of course in both

391
00:17:11,420 --> 00:17:17,329
Britain and I'd appreciate knowing of

392
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:22,040
its true in France is that British and

393
00:17:17,329 --> 00:17:24,550
French wars in the very regions from

394
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:28,850
which many of these migrants are coming

395
00:17:24,550 --> 00:17:30,799
have helped put these people on the move

396
00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:33,500
and therefore in a way they're being

397
00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:35,570
double punished here they are their

398
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:40,610
countries are being bombed then when

399
00:17:35,570 --> 00:17:43,150
they flee they are somehow a dastardly

400
00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:47,690
enemy that has to be stopped at any cost

401
00:17:43,150 --> 00:17:50,120
over at the Calais border well it is

402
00:17:47,690 --> 00:17:52,760
true that the vast majority of people

403
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:54,860
who are in Calais come from countries

404
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,799
who often been at the other end of

405
00:17:54,860 --> 00:18:01,429
Western bombing and have seen their

406
00:17:57,799 --> 00:18:04,250
societies distracted and an awful lot of

407
00:18:01,429 --> 00:18:07,610
loss of lives involved than those who

408
00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:10,340
survived you know want to get out a

409
00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:13,100
country like Libya for example has been

410
00:18:10,340 --> 00:18:16,070
recently bombed into oblivion and it's

411
00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:18,500
now a place where a lot of smugglers

412
00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:20,659
people smugglers are making an awful lot

413
00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:23,210
of money out of people's misery putting

414
00:18:20,659 --> 00:18:26,299
people and makeshift boats who are

415
00:18:23,210 --> 00:18:28,669
desperate to to leave indeed one of the

416
00:18:26,299 --> 00:18:32,630
people responsible for the destruction

417
00:18:28,669 --> 00:18:34,429
of Libya as a state is David Cameron

418
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:37,100
himself yeah he's one of the people

419
00:18:34,429 --> 00:18:40,309
growing blowing the bugle about all of

420
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:42,020
this Sora Katra you are and well as it

421
00:18:40,309 --> 00:18:45,110
happens last week i traveled through a

422
00:18:42,020 --> 00:18:47,900
tunnel twice and ironically the chaos

423
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:51,020
was on the English side not the French

424
00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:53,270
side as they're suggesting there was it

425
00:18:51,020 --> 00:18:56,570
was huge queues of trucks that were not

426
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:58,400
able to move on because of the so called

427
00:18:56,570 --> 00:19:00,409
chaos on the other side when I entered

428
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,690
from cali through the time to the tunnel

429
00:19:00,409 --> 00:19:05,240
it went very smoothly that's an

430
00:19:02,690 --> 00:19:07,970
interesting angle because as I said in

431
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:10,280
the introduction the British media like

432
00:19:07,970 --> 00:19:11,900
to have a kick at France but France is

433
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,820
actually not responsible for this it's

434
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:18,080
the eurotunnel company that is

435
00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:21,230
responsible for the riveter through the

436
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,820
holes in which some of these people were

437
00:19:21,230 --> 00:19:25,520
trying to go onboard trucks and so on

438
00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:27,289
are coming well I think one clearly

439
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,240
shouldn't underestimate the effort that

440
00:19:27,289 --> 00:19:31,730
the French authorities are putting into

441
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,770
all this the French interior minister

442
00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:36,260
has pledged to you know invest more

443
00:19:33,770 --> 00:19:39,140
millions of euros to try to deal with

444
00:19:36,260 --> 00:19:41,330
this situation they are clearly also

445
00:19:39,140 --> 00:19:42,350
involved in diplomacy with the British

446
00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:44,330
there's a lot of meat

447
00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:46,490
things and talks going on and there are

448
00:19:44,330 --> 00:19:50,809
also token gestures like the deployment

449
00:19:46,490 --> 00:19:53,419
of 120 extra police officers it's a

450
00:19:50,809 --> 00:19:55,640
shared responsibility in my view but as

451
00:19:53,419 --> 00:19:58,910
you said I think when shouldn't lose

452
00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:01,429
sight of the fact that in the end we are

453
00:19:58,910 --> 00:20:03,650
talking about people who should be in

454
00:20:01,429 --> 00:20:06,320
the prime of life but who are currently

455
00:20:03,650 --> 00:20:08,630
dying as they're desperately trying to

456
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:12,230
make this hugely perilous journey across

457
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:13,900
the channel tunnel and the French

458
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:18,110
authorities have actually blamed

459
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:20,929
Eurotunnel for the loss of lives or for

460
00:20:18,110 --> 00:20:24,350
being a potentially lethal area for

461
00:20:20,929 --> 00:20:27,860
those migrants so the absolute priority

462
00:20:24,350 --> 00:20:33,409
for both governments should be to focus

463
00:20:27,860 --> 00:20:37,100
on saving lives no the brouhaha around

464
00:20:33,409 --> 00:20:39,890
the Cali and tunnel stories has

465
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:42,320
successfully diverted attention from the

466
00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:45,169
boat people who are far more numerous of

467
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,520
course and who I presume though how

468
00:20:45,169 --> 00:20:48,880
could I know because the media isn't

469
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:51,679
covering it I presume are still leaving

470
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:53,780
from the North African side of the

471
00:20:51,679 --> 00:20:55,610
Mediterranean and headed for Europe is

472
00:20:53,780 --> 00:20:57,890
that the case it is very much the case

473
00:20:55,610 --> 00:20:59,990
there is pretty much every day several

474
00:20:57,890 --> 00:21:02,720
boats of full of people who are trying

475
00:20:59,990 --> 00:21:04,490
to make it to the European shores and I

476
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:08,299
think the core issue in all this is that

477
00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:10,360
in the future we are likely to see more

478
00:21:08,299 --> 00:21:12,650
and more migrants coming from war-torn

479
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:15,140
countries or the trouble parts of the

480
00:21:12,650 --> 00:21:18,710
world who want to make it into safe

481
00:21:15,140 --> 00:21:22,370
societies in Europe and that's the

482
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:25,370
problem that Europe will have to deal

483
00:21:22,370 --> 00:21:28,780
with and have to sort out in spite of

484
00:21:25,370 --> 00:21:31,490
all its problems with Greece for example

485
00:21:28,780 --> 00:21:34,400
Europe is still you know very stable

486
00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:36,500
trading block which is very attractive

487
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,659
and appealing to a lot of desperate

488
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:40,580
people Europe will have to come to find

489
00:21:38,659 --> 00:21:43,330
a solution at the moment it doesn't have

490
00:21:40,580 --> 00:21:46,940
a coordinated approach to this

491
00:21:43,330 --> 00:21:50,770
phenomenon and it's far from finding a

492
00:21:46,940 --> 00:21:54,530
solution well I mean I'll advanced one

493
00:21:50,770 --> 00:21:58,990
the first priority is

494
00:21:54,530 --> 00:22:02,270
to establish an orderly queue for

495
00:21:58,990 --> 00:22:04,450
scientifically appraised immigration

496
00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:06,890
these people in the prime of life

497
00:22:04,450 --> 00:22:09,500
showing such initiative such

498
00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:11,270
determination to get here elected to be

499
00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:14,900
the very people that would act as an

500
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:16,550
economic accelerator if they did get

501
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:19,310
here that certainly been the immigrant

502
00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:20,930
story everywhere else in the world no

503
00:22:19,310 --> 00:22:23,300
reason why this would be different the

504
00:22:20,930 --> 00:22:24,860
second is to stop bombing their

505
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:26,780
countries and interfering in their

506
00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:29,380
countries because if you go further

507
00:22:26,780 --> 00:22:32,750
south to the Horn of Africa for example

508
00:22:29,380 --> 00:22:37,010
the West has been involved in war and

509
00:22:32,750 --> 00:22:39,080
division in Ethiopia Eritrea for as long

510
00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:42,140
as I've been alive I've been conscious

511
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:45,320
of it since the early 1960s and the

512
00:22:42,140 --> 00:22:50,270
third would be to help economic

513
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:54,770
development in the south by proper fair

514
00:22:50,270 --> 00:22:57,770
trade and fair terms of investment so

515
00:22:54,770 --> 00:23:01,310
that their places became more attractive

516
00:22:57,770 --> 00:23:03,320
to stay in than setting out for Callie

517
00:23:01,310 --> 00:23:05,570
and trying to jump on the back of a

518
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,970
train how's that for a manifesto well I

519
00:23:05,570 --> 00:23:10,900
I absolutely agree I think there is

520
00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:13,490
undoubtedly a correlation between

521
00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:15,800
countries being bombed and indeed

522
00:23:13,490 --> 00:23:20,270
societies being destroyed and people

523
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:22,670
there for fleeing you know devastated

524
00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:24,260
places effectively there is no doubt

525
00:23:22,670 --> 00:23:27,410
about that and there's also a

526
00:23:24,260 --> 00:23:30,380
misconception or prejudice about people

527
00:23:27,410 --> 00:23:32,660
fleeing those places to come and you

528
00:23:30,380 --> 00:23:34,790
know somehow come and live on the

529
00:23:32,660 --> 00:23:36,620
benefit system that couldn't be further

530
00:23:34,790 --> 00:23:39,770
from the truth we are talking about

531
00:23:36,620 --> 00:23:42,350
people who have aspirations who like

532
00:23:39,770 --> 00:23:45,320
anybody else want a decent life they are

533
00:23:42,350 --> 00:23:47,450
often very hardworking people and they

534
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:51,020
simply want to start afresh I fiercely

535
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:53,380
opposed the bombing of Libya because it

536
00:23:51,020 --> 00:23:55,820
was dressed up as a humanitarian

537
00:23:53,380 --> 00:23:57,290
intervention which eventually brought

538
00:23:55,820 --> 00:24:00,140
about regime change which is of course

539
00:23:57,290 --> 00:24:02,990
against international law but you would

540
00:24:00,140 --> 00:24:05,150
think that if the intention was indeed

541
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:07,180
to bring about democracy then why are

542
00:24:05,150 --> 00:24:09,250
not Western governments since

543
00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:11,260
typically the French and the British

544
00:24:09,250 --> 00:24:14,290
would in most of the bombing not

545
00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:15,880
involved now to build up civil society

546
00:24:14,290 --> 00:24:19,270
and indeed rebuild the country and make

547
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:21,520
sure that it is you know a fair and and

548
00:24:19,270 --> 00:24:23,500
society to live in well they achieved

549
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,990
the opposite thank you very much indeed

550
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:31,390
Nabila Ram Danny for joining us on the

551
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:33,460
Sputnik and now it's your turn to tell

552
00:24:31,390 --> 00:24:36,100
us what you think through the portals of

553
00:24:33,460 --> 00:24:38,110
social media what's rattling gayatri is

554
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:40,480
the light at the end of the tunnel what

555
00:24:38,110 --> 00:24:43,870
now for those stranded in cali norton

556
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:46,150
kane says cameron and co wage a war on

557
00:24:43,870 --> 00:24:49,900
these four people's countries and then

558
00:24:46,150 --> 00:24:54,130
wage war on them as refugees well it's

559
00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:58,360
absolutely true and it's also a total

560
00:24:54,130 --> 00:25:01,960
failure of perspective I myself had been

561
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:04,570
persuaded that there was an army of a

562
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:07,930
hundred thousand or so at kelley

563
00:25:04,570 --> 00:25:11,980
attempting to in david cameron's

564
00:25:07,930 --> 00:25:14,440
disgraceful words swarm over here turns

565
00:25:11,980 --> 00:25:17,380
out those five thousand there's not many

566
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:20,920
immigrants arriving not just a Heathrow

567
00:25:17,380 --> 00:25:23,650
and Gatwick but emigrating to Spain and

568
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,270
Portugal from Britta that's all that

569
00:25:23,650 --> 00:25:27,250
we've got for this week which alas means

570
00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:29,500
that's the end of the show you can stay

571
00:25:27,250 --> 00:25:31,210
in touch with us though on Twitter at RT

572
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:33,430
underscore Sputnik and on facebook

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00:25:31,210 --> 00:25:35,650
Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye

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00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:38,820
from me Gayatri and for me George

575
00:25:35,650 --> 00:25:38,820
Galloway it's been ma

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00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:47,890
you